掌握争论所需的3个工具，以及化解争论的头号方法！与Jefferson Fisher一起

今天你将学习如何掌握生活中的争论技巧。应大家要求，沟通奇才兼庭审律师杰斐逊·费舍尔今天来到这里，与你我分享三个帮助你掌控争论和对话的工具，外加化解争论的首要方法，以及一句能立即终止有毒对话的短语。杰斐逊·费舍尔是第五代获奖律师、作家、演说家，通过简短实用的社交媒体视频教导全球数百万人如何减少争吵、增进对话，无论是处理激烈讨论、应对难缠人物，还是自信坚守立场。

Today you're gonna learn how to master arguments in your life. You asked for it and backed by popular demand, communication phenom and trial attorney Jefferson Fisher is here to talk with you and me today about three tools to help you master arguments and conversations plus the number one way to diffuse an argument and the one phrase that immediately shuts down a toxic conversation. Jefferson Fisher is a trial lawyer, a fifth generation award winning attorney, writer, and speaker. His work has gained him millions of followers all over the world through short, simple, practical social media videos teaching people how to argue less and talk more. Whether it's handling a heated conversation, dealing with a difficult personality, or standing your ground with confidence.

杰斐逊的新书《少争论，多对话》现已出版，他帮助人们在日常争论和对话中有效沟通。杰斐逊说，你接下来要说的话能改变你生活的方方面面。今天我们有幸请到百忙中的杰斐逊暂停法律事务，专程乘飞机赶来与我们相聚。

Jefferson helps you communicate during life's everyday arguments and conversations and his brand new book called The Argue Less, Talk More is out now. Jefferson says we can change everything about your life by what you say next. And you and I are in for a treat because Jefferson has stepped away from his busy legal practice. He got on an airplane. He flew here to be with you and me today.

无论你是为自己收听，还是因所爱之人分享本期节目而来，我都要欢迎你加入杰米·克恩·利马播客大家庭。请记住，这期节目不仅为你我准备，请分享给你认识的每个人——它同样可能改变他们的人生。在开始前，如果你能花两秒点击收听或观看平台上的关注/订阅按钮，我将不胜感激。这能让你第一时间获取新节目，也有助于平台将节目推荐给更多听众。

Whether you're listening for yourself or because someone that you love shared this episode with you, I want to welcome you to the Jamie Kern Lima Show podcast family. Remember, this episode is not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person you know because it can change their life too. Before we jump into this episode, I'd be so grateful if you take two seconds to click on the follow or subscribe button on the app you're listening or watching the podcast on. It'll help you because you're gonna be the very first to get the episodes and it's gonna help the show because by you following it, it's more likely to be promoted to others to discover.

若能留下五星好评就更加完美了。衷心感谢你们，这是我们共同打造的节目，对我意义非凡。

And if you leave a five star review, that would be even more amazing. And just thank you so much. This is our show together, and it truly means so much to me.

她的名字是杰米·克恩·利马。每个人生命中都该有个杰米·克恩·利马。

Jamie Kern Lima is her name. Everybody needs Jamie Kern Lima in their life.

杰米·克恩·利马。

Jamie Kern Lima.

杰米，你太鼓舞人心了。

Jamie, you're so inspiring.

杰米·克恩·利马。

Jamie Kern Lima.

杰斐逊·费舍尔，欢迎来到杰米·克恩·利马秀。

Jefferson Fisher, welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima show.

非常感谢邀请，杰米。能来此我深感荣幸。

Thank you so much for having me, Jamie. I'm honored to be here.

你能来我真是太高兴了。

I'm so excited you're here.

是啊。

Yeah.

哇。你的建议和视频所产生的影响，已经成为一种现象级的存在。

Wow. What has happened with you, with your advice, with your videos, it has become a phenomenon.

谢谢，你太贴心了。是的，这确实是上天的恩赐。而我现在只是尽力保持住。

Thank you. Very sweet, thank you. Yeah, it's truly been a blessing. And right now I'm just holding on.

对对。今天能深入探讨这个话题让我特别兴奋。我迫不及待想和你聊聊关于争论的话题——我们如何掌控争论与沟通，以及可以运用的技巧。你提到过化解争论最有效的方法之一，那句能让有毒对话立刻终止的话。

Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm excited so much to dive into today. I am so excited to talk to you about arguments. How we master arguments and communication and the tools that we can apply to master arguments. You talk about one of the most powerful ways to diffuse an argument, the one phrase that shuts down a toxic conversation.

不过我想重点请教你教授的三个强大工具。你的新书《下一次对话》我已从头到尾读完，里面满满都是能立即应用于生活的干货。但我想特别请教关于掌控争论与对话的部分，因为我们都会遇到这些情况——有些人逃避争论，有些人不知如何处理，有些人被争论击垮，有些人觉得争论是针对个人的却不知如何应对。

And I wanna ask you about three tools though that you teach that I think are so powerful. Your new book, The Next Conversation that I've read cover to cover, it is just packed, packed with things we can apply to our life right But I wanna ask you about specifically when it comes to mastering arguments and conversations, because we all have them and some of us have them but avoid them. Some of us don't wanna deal with them, some of us don't know how. Some of us let them take us down. Some of us let them feel deeply personal, we don't know how to handle them.

可能我们没能从父母、成长环境或学校学到这些。而我认为这些工具能从根本上改变你人生中所有关系。关于掌控争论与对话，你提到的三个工具——能谈谈对话呼吸法、快速扫描和小对话吗？

Maybe we didn't learn from our parents or we didn't learn from how we were raised or school. And I think that these are the tools that can fundamentally change all the relationships in your life. And so three tools you talk about when it comes to mastering arguments and conversations. Can you talk about conversational breath, quick scan and a small talk?

好的，这些方法的核心是保持可控的表达。当对话演变成争论时，往往始于语气不对劲的瞬间——'我不喜欢他们那样说话'。突然间各种念头开始翻腾，可能鼻孔开始张大，身体微微前倾，或是对方说了不友善的话，你就开始情绪失控：'他们刚才真是那个意思吗？'

Yes, these are all about saying it with control. So when you think about a conversation that turns into an argument, like it's just that sense that the tone didn't sound right. I don't like how they said that. And all of a sudden, things start to spur in your mind and maybe your nostrils start to flare and you start to kind of bow up a little bit or somebody says a word that's not kind and you start to spiral. Did they just say what I think they said when those things kind of happen?

思绪加速的同时，呼吸也会变快。你的呼吸急促得像准备逃跑，这是战或逃反应——你随时准备反击或逃离伤害。

Thoughts start to speed up. So does your breath. Your breath gets faster like you're ready to run. That's your fight or flight. You're ready to run and or you're ready to hurt.

这时你特别想用言语反击，想让那些伤人的话产生杀伤力，因为你想要消除他们言行带来的威胁感。'他们刚刚贬低了我'，你的身体在抗议：'我不喜欢这样，嘿，我讨厌这样'。

So you really want to say that that hurtful word. You want the word to cut because you're wanting that threat of whatever they said or whatever they did to go away. They just undermine me. Your body says, I don't like that. Hey, I don't like that.

突然间你会开始变得防备。对话式呼吸的力量在于它能让你沉静下来，确保情绪受控，避免被情感淹没。它始终让你大脑的逻辑分析部分保持运转。海军海豹突击队和军队也是如此，他们采用战术呼吸法。

And all of a sudden you start to get defensive. The conversational breath, the power of it is it allows you to sink back down to make sure that your emotions stay in check, where you don't feel emotionally flooded. It always keeps your logical, analytical side of your brain in motion. Same thing with Navy SEALs and military. They they do tactical breathing.

对话式呼吸利用了现有研究中所谓的生理性叹息。它巧妙地将叹息融入呼吸中却不显痕迹。具体操作是：吸气时，在达到顶点后再轻微吸入一秒，然后缓缓呼出。关键是要让呼气时间略长于吸气。

So what a conversational breath does, it takes advantage of the research that's already out there on what they call a physiological sigh. And so it's injecting a sigh into your breath without sounding like one. But you get the benefits of it and how you do it as you breathe in. And at the very top, you breathe in just a little more, one second, and then you release. And so always the exhale needs to be a little bit longer than the inhale.

典型节奏是两秒吸气，顶点暂停一秒，然后用五到七秒缓慢呼气。经常练习这种呼吸法——这将成为你在进入争论前保持理性思维的首个呼吸技巧。每次都能让你保持冷静，这就是对话式呼吸的魔力。

So it's typically a two second inhale and a one second at the top, And then you got about a five to seven or five, six second exhale. And you just do that often. That's going to be your first breath that you take that's going to allow you to continue to keep your analytical side engaged before you go into that argument. It's going to keep you calm every single time. So that's the power of a conversational breath.

就像游泳却无需换气，它能让你持续保持在专注状态中。

It's like swimming, but you never have to go up for air. It allows you to stay locked in in the zone.

所以它能改变你的身体状态。

So it changes your body.

确实如此。它利用了人体机制——我们都知道面对威胁时会触发战斗或逃跑反应，瞬间就会情绪爆发。

It really does. It takes advantage of what you know about your body. What do we know? We know that we engage in fight or flight. You get that threat, that trigger, and all of a sudden I'm on fire.

呼吸正是最有效的镇定方式，它能让你对自己说：不，没有威胁，此刻我不会被情绪淹没，我要保持专注。

Yeah, the breath does. It's the number one way of pulling yourself down, saying, No, no, no. There's no threat. I'm not going to be emotionally overloaded in this moment. I'm going to make sure I'm locked in.

当你说保持冷静时，对方会加快语速试图激怒你。真正的力量在于你始终能保持镇定——在冲突中保持冷静的人会给人留下深刻印象。这种面对恐惧压力时的从容，正是情绪调节能力的体现。

And that's what happens when you say calm. The person goes, starts a rapid, rapid, rapid, and they try to draw you in. That's the that's where the power is, is you're allowing yourself to stay calm in that moment. And somebody being calm in the face of conflict is a very it's an impressive moment when you see people that are calm in the face of fear or face of stress. It's it's a it's a sign that this person is emotionally regulated.

他们懂得如何自我约束。

They know how to keep themselves in check.

这太重要了。作为团队领导或一家之主，能在这种场合保持冷静，人们自然会尊重你，视你为领袖。而我们多数人的本能反应总是太快——‘你刚说什么？等等，你是说...’

This is so good because in a leadership role, if you're leading a team, if you're head of the family, if any And of it, you are the one that's able to keep your calm in these situations, people automatically respect you and they automatically see you as the person to turn to for leadership. And much of our, for many of us, our humanness, we react so fast. What did you say? Wait, what? Did you, I mean, it's

做起来就是这么简单。

just so easy to do it.

所以杰斐逊，这个工具很强大。

And so Jefferson, so this tool is big.

宪法般的呼吸。

Constitutional breath.

这是

This is

你如何重获力量的方式。这也是你在争论中不失去力量的方法，比如当争论刚开始时。所以当你感觉到争论即将发生或正在酝酿时，你会立刻这样做吗？你只需深呼吸，坚持几秒钟。你能再教我们一次吗？

how you get your power back. And this is how you don't lose your power in an argument, like when it's just getting started. So when you feel like an argument's happening or it's transpiring, you feel it brewing, do you do this right away? You just take a breath, you go in for a few seconds. Can you teach us one more time?

要

Gonna

对，跟着做，对，所以先吸气两秒。

Yeah, do it with yeah, So it's gonna be two seconds in.

我们在家也试试，好的。

Do it us at home, okay.

顶部停留一秒，然后呼气约六秒。这样能让你尽量延长呼气。试着用鼻子呼吸，因为鼻腔通道较小，呼气更慢，能让你平静下来。

One second at the top and then about six seconds out. And it's allowing you to pull it out if you can. You try and do it through your nose because it's smaller nasal passages. Breath goes out slower. That calms you down.

所以当你总是用嘴呼吸时，会吸入更多氧气，这会让你稍微亢奋，长期处于轻度焦虑状态。用鼻子呼吸能放慢节奏。当你看到有人不开心时，他们的鼻孔会张大，身体在那一刻——甚至他们自己都没意识到——正试图通过呼吸来平静下来。所以当你专注于呼吸时，杰米，这确实是你在情绪升级前让自己冷静下来的首要方法。

So it's a way of when your mouth breathing all the time, you breathe in more oxygen and it triggers you a little bit more. It kind of keeps you in a low grade state of anxiety when you're always breathing with your mouth. Breathing through your nose allows you to slow it down. So when you ever see somebody that they're unhappy and they kind of their nostrils flare and they go like they're trying to their body is, in that moment, without them even knowing it, tried to calm them down through their breathing. And so when you're able to concentrate on your breath, it truly it's the number one thing, Jamie, that you can do to calm yourself in the moment before you escalate.

因为如果你不深呼吸，后果正如你所说。就是那种‘抱歉，你刚才说什么？’然后突然之间，你就完了。你整个人都不在了。

Because what happens if you don't take that breath is exactly what you said. It's the, Excuse me, did you say? And you start to just, boom, you're done. You're gone.

然后你就进入了战斗或逃跑状态。

And now you're in fight or flight.

没错，

Now yeah,

现在你说话可能完全变了个样，但你已经失去了力量。

it's Now you can extremely speak totally differently, but you've lost your power.

你不再是同一个人了。你不再是同一个人了。这就是我所说的点燃阶段。一旦事情开始产生摩擦并爆发，你就被点燃了。此时你的瞳孔会放大。

And you're not the same person. You're not the same person. It's what I call the ignition phase. As soon as things start to turn to friction and they combust, you're now ignited. And now your pupils, they'll dilate.

你见过这种情况吗？瞳孔放大是为了确保你集中注意力。你的视野变窄，以便专注于周围环境。这是身体在问：我需要逃跑吗？灌木丛里是不是藏着什么？

You ever seen that? They'll dilate to make sure that you're focused in. So your focus narrows so you can concentrate on what's around you. Make sure it's your body saying, Do I need to run? Is there something under the bush where we got?

这就是为什么你会突然掌心出汗。突然之间，你感觉不到饥饿，因为身体抑制了饥饿感，让你准备逃跑。心跳加速。所以人们的声音会颤抖，眼睛会湿润。

I mean, you're that's why your palms feel sweaty. All of a sudden, you don't you don't feel hungry because your body suppressing any hunger to get you ready to run. Your heartbeat goes faster. That's why people, their voice will shake. Their eyes will water.

这是身体在准备行动。想结束对话的人——我知道这会引起共鸣——你在电话里聊着聊着，突然就想说‘我...

It's their body preparing them to get going. People who want to leave a conversation. This, I know, will resonate with anybody. You've been in that conversation on the phone, and all of a sudden, you just go, I

只想离开。想逃离房间的人。

just want out. People who want to leave a room.

人们想挂断电话。这种情绪就是战斗或逃跑反应在说：快离开这里，远离威胁。我必须马上走。

People want to hang up the phone. It's the emotion. It's the overwhelm of their fight or flight going, Get out of here. Get away from the threat. I just need to leave.

人与人之间也是如此。假设有一对情侣，他们不擅长沟通。当他们处于战斗或逃跑状态时，本能会让人想抓起东西扔出去。我的意思是，这就是人性使然。

So it's the same way with people. Let's say we have a couple that is there. They're not great at communicating. When they're in fight or flight, it is natural to want to pick up something and throw it. I mean, it's just what it is.

而我们却用言语代替行动。另一种反应则是逃避——你的逃跑反应表现为：我想离开。我想摔门而去。我想远离他们。

And instead, we do it with our words. The flip side of it is to to run from that. Your flight is I want to leave. I want to slam the door. I want to get away from them.

我不想再和他们说话。这完全是同样的心理机制，只不过你用的是语言来表达。

I don't want to talk to them anymore. It's the same exact concept. You're just doing it with your words.

说得太好了。关于掌控争论这个话题的第二个技巧，这个工具本身就已经非常棒了。真的非常非常实用。我特别喜欢的是，这样做能让你重获主动权，避免陷入战斗或逃跑模式，减少做出令你后悔行为的可能性。

So good. And the second one, second tool, on this topic of mastering arguments, that's so good. Just that tool right there. That's really, really good. And again, I love that we can do it because you're taking your power back, you're not going into fight or flight, and you're less likely to do things you regret.

你更有可能去化解矛盾，达成和解。

You're more likely to be able to unravel and resolve.

同时要自我提问。比如：这种情绪从何而来？在你深呼吸时问自己这个问题非常有力。当我提到'对话式呼吸'并示范时，看起来可能有些夸张。

And ask yourself questions. Like where's this coming from? And that's a very powerful question to ask yourself when you're taking that breath. It doesn't. When I say conversational breath and walking through you with it here, that's exaggerated.

其实你完全可以自然做到，而且旁人根本察觉不到。我在公开演讲前就会用这种对话式呼吸法，也就是生理性叹息。在可能紧张的场合，我用它来平复颤抖——因为身体处于亢奋状态。

You easily can do it, and it does not look at all like you're doing it. I use conversational breaths, that physiological sigh, before I go speak. I might do it in a moment where I might be nervous. Using that as a way to just calm my nerves, I'll stop shaking because my body's pumped up. It's excited.

但在冲突时刻，这是绝佳的自问时机：对方这种表现根源何在？当听到对方那句话时，要在心里追问：他们为何感到受威胁？

But it's a great time to ask yourself in moments of conflict. Where is that coming from? To ask that from that other person in your mind when they make that comment. Where is that coming from? How do they feel threatened?

究竟是什么威胁着他们？掌控性表达的精髓在于：你不仅能觉察自身触发点，更能解读对方信号——当你听到他们提高声调时，本质上是他们身体发出的连接诉求，是消除威胁的呼求。

What is threatening them? And that's the secret of saying it with control is that you not only get to notice these symptoms or what triggers you, it's also showing you and revealing to you the signs in the other person that when you hear that raised voice from them, what it truly is is a plea from their body to connect, to remove the threat.

哇哦。这么说这套方法可以应用到日常所有场景中。那当你为客户做庭前准备时，是否会教他们：当对方律师咄咄逼人时，用这个技巧避免被激怒，防止陷入不利境地？

Wow. So you can apply this to every type of situation in your day to day life. And then when you have clients on the stand and do you prep them like, okay, when this other attorney comes after you, like do you teach them this tool to not take the bait and just react and go somewhere they don't wanna go?

那是我最自豪的时刻之一——当我看到一位原本紧张不安、陷入困境的客户。他们原本不喜欢这样。我的工作本质上是将他们置于狼群之中，让人们试图质疑他们的可信度，证明他们是错的。确实如此，而且许多事情都岌岌可危。

It's one of my proudest moments when I can see a client who was struggling, getting nervous. They did not like it. I mean, what I do is I'm offering up them to the wolves and for people to try to hurt their credibility, prove them wrong. Yes. And a lot of things are at stake.

但当他们深呼吸，我引导他们梳理时——我们总会列个清单演练。其中我会让他们重复的是：第一件事该做什么？他们会说：我的第一个词是呼吸。当对方律师提问时，他们要做的只是呼吸。不会立即接招，因为只有这样才能避免陷入思维漩涡。

But when they take a breath and I walk it through them, I mean, it's always we run through a list. And one of the things I'll have them repeat is, what's the first thing you do? And they said, My first word is my breath to allow them. When they get that question from the opposing attorney, they're going to breathe. They're not going to automatically engage because that's how you know that you're going to start to spiral unless you give it to them.

这就是对话中简单呼吸的力量——它能让你做到更多。

But that's the power of just a conversational breath allows you to do a whole lot more.

好了，第二个工具。本期节目还有更多精彩内容，你绝对不想错过。但首先，我想分享这个给你——

All right. The second tool. There's so much more coming up in this episode. You are not going to want to miss it. But first, I wanted to share this with you.

在生活中，你无法飞跃到希望和梦想的高度，只会困在自我价值的层级。当你建立自我价值时，就改变了整个人生。这正是我为你撰写新书《如何相信你本自具足并改变人生》的原因。如果你需要击碎自我怀疑、实现命运，《Worthy》就是为你而写。

In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams. You stay stuck at the level of your self worth. When you build your self worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, How to Believe You Are Enough and Transform Your Life for you. If you have some self doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, Worthy is for you.

在《Worthy》中，你将学到带来生命转变的实用工具：如何摆脱束缚你的枷锁，建立不可动摇的自我关爱，破除导致自我怀疑的谎言，唤醒价值的真相，克服限制性信念和冒名顶替综合征，通过相信自身价值实现梦想等等。准备好释放你的伟大潜能，成为命中注定的那个人了吗？想象没有自我怀疑、充满坚定自我价值的人生。现在前往worthybook.com或点击节目说明中的链接获取《Worthy》，还有超值赠礼等你。试想若你全然相信自己，能成就什么？

In Worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life changing results, like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back, build unshakable self love, unlearn the lies that lead to self doubt, and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness, overcome limiting beliefs and impostor syndrome, Achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be? Imagine a life with zero self doubt and unshakable self worth. Get your copy of Worthy plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you at worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below. Imagine what you'd do if you fully believed in you.

是时候通过《Worthy》找到答案了。想象若你全然相信自己会做什么？我的每周免费励志通讯《与杰米的一对一》满载探索答案的秘诀，每周二清晨直达你的收件箱。这是从我灵魂直达你灵魂的情书，愿它在恰当时刻给你需要的信息。

It's time to find out with Worthy. Imagine what would you do if you fully believed in you? My weekly free inspirational newsletter is packed with tips and tools to help you find out. It's called One on One with Jamie and it's delivered right to your inbox each Tuesday morning. It's a love letter from me to you, from my soul to yours, and I hope it brings you the words and messages you need at just the right moment.

加入我的免费励志通讯社区，你还能优先获得幕后内容、激励讯息，以及最新活动资讯等。这是不容错过的天地，诚挚期待你的加入。若尚未订阅，可前往jamiekernlimah.com免费注册，或点击节目说明中的链接。让我们携手成为不可阻挡的力量，现在继续这场精彩对话。

Plus when you're a part of my free inspirational newsletter community, you'll be the first to get behind the scenes content, inspirational messages, and be the first to learn about upcoming events and more. It's the place to be and I sure hope you'll join me there. So if you're not on the list yet, you can sign up for free at jamiekernlimah.com or click the link in the show notes below. And here's to becoming unstoppable together. And now more of this incredible conversation together.

好了，第二个工具——快速扫描。对，快速扫描。

All right. The second tool, quick scan. Yes. Quick scan.

没错。快速扫描是我通过冥想（这对我是新事物）发展出的能力，能实时觉察身体状态。通常当我情绪激动时，是因为肩膀紧绷或下颌紧咬——我经常无意识咬紧牙关。

Yes. So quick scanning is something that developed over meditating, which was new to me. And it was the ability to scan your body in real time. Often if I'm getting worked up, it's because my shoulders are really tense. My jaws like I clench my jaw a lot.

但我通常把压力积压在肩膀处。所以当你拳头紧握时就能察觉这些信号。而我们往往忽视这些症状。很多时候如果你扫描自己的身体——就是现在，如果你坐下来深呼吸自问：我的身体在告诉我什么？

But I that's where I hold my stress or in my shoulders. So you can tell things when your fists are clenched. And what we do is we ignore those symptoms. So many times if you scan your body, meaning you're right now, if you just sat and go, Okay, I'm just going to breathe. What's my body telling me?

哪里感到不适？也许你后背隐隐作痛却未曾真正注意到。

Where's my discomfort? Maybe you had a pain in your back you didn't really realize.

从头部开始

You start at your head

就这样

and just kind

需要闭眼吗？还是说在拥挤的场合也能不被人察觉地进行？

of like, do you close your eyes or can you do it without anyone else knowing if you're like in a crowded room?

对，你现在所处的位置就能做。

Right. You can do it exactly where you are right now.

好的，在家观众现在和我们一起做

Okay, everyone at home do this with us right

现在就可以做。你坐在当前位置就能完成。即使开车时也能进行。这是从头部开始逐渐向下扫描身体的能力。

now. Can do it. You can do it right where you're sitting right now. So let's say even even if you're driving, you can do it, too. It is the ability to start with your head and slowly scan down your body.

你要寻找的是：哪里紧绷？哪里积聚着压力？哪里有结节？可能在你的下颌。

You're going to be looking for where are you tight? Where are you holding your tension? Where are you? Where do you have your knots? It might be in your jaw.

可能在耳后，可能在肩部，有时甚至可能因姿势问题出现在脚部。压力源自何处？你需要做的是找到一个词——这个词会自然浮现。

It might be behind your ears. It might be in your shoulders. It might even be, sometimes in your feet of how you're positioning yourself. Where is the stress coming from? And what you need to do is find a word and it's going to come to you.

一个承诺即将降临于你。你会找到一个词来描述此刻的感受。花点时间想想，此刻浮现的词是什么？没有对错之分。

A promise is going to come to you. You're going to find a word of how you're feeling in this moment. Just take a second and think about it. What's the word that's coming to you in this moment? There's no right or wrong.

而且你知道吗？你甚至不必非要找到

And you know what? You don't even have to find a

一个词，如果你不想的话。这只是你在表达感受。你的身体知道它。一旦捕捉到，试着在脑中默念。当你这么做时，就在那一刻放松身体，自然而然你会感到更能掌控自己的身体。

word if you don't want to. It's just you're expressing the feeling. Your body knows it. And once you have it, try to say it in your head. And when you do relax your body right in that moment and automatically you're going to feel more in control of your, your body.

你会更掌控自己的思绪，因为你正在做的是：在压力出现的瞬间定位它，释放它，并为情绪命名。正如我常说的——当你能够命名它，就能掌控它。比如当我感到紧绷、愤怒或不耐烦时，我会这么做。比如在杂货店排队时——这场景可太有共鸣了。

You're going to feel more in control of your mind because what you're doing is you're finding in that moment where the stress is, you're releasing it and you're labeling your emotions. What I say is when you can claim it, you control it. So when you can find that, for example, let's say I'm feeling tense or I'm feeling angry or impatient. I do this when I'm, in the I'm going to say I'm at the grocery store. It's taking forever, which, yeah, a lot to be said there.

但当我告诉身体「这是不耐烦」，突然间我就实时标注出了真实感受。接着我感觉「好吧，这情绪与我分离了」。我在抽离它——我不是这个情绪本身，只是在经历这个情绪。

But if I say to scam my body, say patients are impatient, All of a sudden, I'm now labeling what exactly I'm feeling in real time. And then I feel like, Okay, it's separated from myself. I'm detaching from it. I am not the feeling. I am only experiencing that feeling.

随着时间推移，我发现不必从头到脚彻底扫描。练习越多就越熟练。比如现在，我能准确指出紧张或压力的聚集点。你越了解压力来源，就越能提出有效质疑——因为身体会隐藏压力。就像那本精彩的书《身体从未忘记》揭示的。

And over time, what I've learned is it's you don't have to have this full top of the head to the bottom of the toes. The more you do it, the better you get at it. Like right now, I can tell you where I'm feeling tension or I'm carrying my my stress of all that's happening. And the more you understand where it's coming from, the better you're going to be able to ask questions about it because your body's hiding stress. As a wonderful book, The Body Keeps the Score.

我的意思是，身体比你更清楚压力藏在哪里。两年前若有人问「你会焦虑吗」，我绝对会斩钉截铁否认。

I mean, it's just this idea of your body knows stress where you're keeping it way better than you do. I would be the first to tell you that two years ago, if you said, Hey, do you get stressed? You have anxiety? I'd say, No. No, I don't.

两年前的二月，我经历了第一次惊恐发作。当时以为自己要死了，坚信是心脏病发作。医生问我「你有焦虑症吗」，我仍矢口否认。

In February two years ago, I had my first panic attack. And I thought I was I thought I was dying. I thought I was having a heart attack because I was so convinced. I remember the doctor came in and goes, Do you have anxiety? I said, No.

记得我看向妻子示意「快告诉他我不焦虑」，她却对医生点头默认。看，身体往往才是压力的忠实记录者。

I remember looking at my wife and like, Tell him I don't have anxiety. I'm cold as a cucumber. And she looked at him. She like nodded like, Yes, he does. So often your body is the one that keeps the stress.

我们只是自欺欺人罢了。所以快速扫描法是种随时随地可用的简易方式，能帮助你更清晰地觉察当下感受。

You just you're convincing yourself otherwise. So doing a quick scan is a very easy, easy way that you can do it anytime, anywhere that's going to allow you to better recognize how you're feeling in that moment.

这真是太棒了。想象一下，当你和一群人共处一室，有人做了某件事让你怒火中烧，几乎要脱口而出或感到极度困扰时。就在那个瞬间，几乎无人察觉地，你可以快速扫描自己的身体感受，用某个词来命名它——可能是挫败、怀疑、背叛或其他任何情绪。

That's so good. Like, let's just say you're in a room with a group and someone's doing something and you're getting so angry. You're about to like say something or it's really bothering you. So in that moment, almost without anyone knowing it, you can just sort of scan your body, have that word, which might be frustration or disbelief or betrayal or whatever it might be. And in your own mind, you're naming it.

然后你就能以旁观者视角观察它。你在身体里感受它，决定尽可能释放它，或至少承认它的存在。此刻你更能掌控自己——也许当下我不会对那人翻白眼，不会起身离开，也不会说出后悔的话。这个工具让你保持主导权，自主决定如何回应。

And then now you're sort of like able to observe it. You feel it in your body. You make the decision to sort of like release it if you can, or at least acknowledge it. And now you're more in control about, maybe right now in this moment, I'm not going to roll my eyes at the person or I'm not going to get up and leave, or I'm not gonna say something I might regret. You kind of do this tool so that you're in control and you can decide how am I going to respond.

完全正确。我脑海中想象有个办公桌和文件柜。快速扫描时，我喜欢把它写在纸上，审视之后选择放回桌面。我不随身携带它，不揣进口袋，也不让它附着在我身上。

You got it. In my mind, I have a desk. I have my file cabinets in my mind. What I like to do and think of with a quick scan, it's like I'm writing it down on a sheet of paper, and I'm looking at it, and then I am making the choice to put it back down on the desk. As I'm not carrying it, I'm not putting it with me, I'm not putting it in my pocket, I'm not wearing it.

我已经观察过它并确认：好的，这是愤怒。然后我就把它放回原处。

I have now observed it and go, okay, that's anger. All right. And then I put it back down.

然后你放下它。

And you leave it.

接着你就放下它。

And then you leave it.

它不会黏着你，也不会留在你体内。

And it's not stuck on you. It's not in you.

正是如此。这不代表情绪不成立，不真实，或我没感受过。

Exactly. Doesn't mean that wasn't valid. It doesn't mean that it wasn't real, that I didn't feel it.

对。

Right.

关键在于你如何处置它？

It's just what do you do with it?

你用它做什么？是的。它能给你力量。没错。让你重获力量

What do you do with it? Yeah. And it gives you your power. Exactly. Your power back

让你可以说，好吧，

lets you say, okay,

我已经扫描过了。我看过了。我现在不需要那个。

I've scanned it. I've looked at it. I don't need that right now.

好的。第三个工具是自我对话。

Okay. The third tool is small talk.

哦，所以自我对话的力量在于它不像听起来像肯定句那样，这种与自己进行简短对话的理念。自我对话与肯定句的区别在于，肯定句更像是'我足够好'、'我值得'这类内在的表述。而自我对话则是唤起你在沟通时想成为什么样的人的方式。抱歉，其实有很多不同的方式可以进行自我对话。

Oh, so small talks with the power of that is it's not like a sounds like an affirmation, this idea of having a small talk with yourself. The difference between a small talk and affirmation is affirmations more like, I am enough. I am worthy, where it's kind of this intrinsic thing. A small talk is a way to bring up who you want to be when you communicate. And there are lots of different ways that excuse me, that you can have a small talk.

通过我教授的课程和我自己的实践发现——我自己也使用自我对话。首先让我定义一下：自我对话不过是你与自己快速进行的对话。可以是两句话，也可以是一句话。

What I found with my lessons that I teach and I use them I use small talks for myself. Well, first, let me define it. A small talk is nothing more than a conversation that you quickly have with yourself. It can be two sentences. It can be one sentence.

可以是一个短语。我会在庭审时把它们写在黄色法律便签纸的顶部。比如'等待合适的时机'、'让事实说话'这类内容。就像杰斐逊那样——这些都是我在当下唤醒自己的方式。

It can be a phrase. And I write them down at the top of my yellow legal pad in trial. And these are things like wait for the right pitch, let the facts speak for themselves. These things that you be Jefferson, like that is ways. These are ways that I am recalling in the moment.

你想成为

Who do you want

什么样的人？我该如何

to be? How do I

为自己展现？又希望别人如何感知我？我指导每位客户都实践过这个方法——在沟通时你想成为什么样的人？有个案例让我印象深刻：一位客户的自我对话是'告诉他们，多丽丝。告诉他们，多丽丝'——这是她祖父常对祖母说的话，当祖母对某些事激动时，祖父就会说'去告诉他们，把事情说清楚'。

want to show up for myself? And how do I want other people to experience me? And I have done it and worked with every client that I have to work on their small talk of who do you want to be when you communicate? And one of my favorites is I had a client who, her small talk was, Tell them, Doris. Tell them, Doris, which was a line that her grandfather would tell her grandmother when her grandmother was getting worked up about something, going to tell them, pull them up one side and down the other, tell them something.

因此她渴望拥有祖母那般自信。于是她会在心里默念：不，多丽丝，告诉他们。这给了她勇气说出想说的话。闲聊是你内在保留的东西，可以写下来，但它们只是提醒你希望如何展现自我的小纪念品。

And so she wanted to have that confidence of her grandmother. And so she would say to herself in her mind, you know, no, tell them, Doris. And so that gave her the confidence to say what she wanted to say. Small talk is something that you keep intrinsic to you. You can write them down, but they're just little mementos or reminders of how you want to show up.

这些不是要大声说出来的。你可以把它们写在广告牌上，但它们并非公开宣言。这只是与你相关、关乎你希望如何回应的私密准则——比如告诫自己不要打断别人。

They're not something to say out loud. You can put them on a billboard. They're not public. It's just what relates to you and how you want to react. Maybe it's something about not wanting to interrupt.

也可能是提醒自己下次有人那样说时要站稳立场。这是与自我的约定，就像赛前小聚，确保每次都能如此展现。用动词开头——比如'站起来'或'慢点说'，我的准则就是'等待最佳时机'，动词能赋予行动力。

Maybe it's something of wanting to make sure you stay in your ground the next time that somebody says that thing. It's an agreement with yourself of making sure that, like a mini huddle, this is how I'm going to show up every single time. And you do it by starting with a verb. So if it's stand up or speak slowly, like for mine was wait for the right pitch. Begin with a verb.

为什么用动词？

Why a verb?

因为动词能转化为行动，使其具体化。动词自带动能，要善用语言力量。动词能给你爆发力，比如'不，我要把情绪注入其中'，这比被动的'我值得'肯定句更有力。

Because it puts it into action, because it makes it tangible. Verbs feel movement. So whenever you can use the power of language, use a verb. A verb is what's going to give you that little bit of a power punch to say, No, I'm going to put this in emotion. It's not more passive, like an affirmation of I am worthy.

'这就够了'不够有力，要说'告诉他们，多丽丝'，要说'站稳立场'。这些能让你实际运用，比如面对人身攻击时，最有效的就是'放下它'。

Am enough. No, it is tell them, Doris. It is, know, stand your ground. These things that are going to allow you to use it. Like, for example, in taking it personally, a great one is put it down.

我常对自己说'放下它，杰斐逊'。当别人说了什么，或我带着负面情绪阅读短信邮件准备回击时，我就说'放下它，杰斐逊'。

I would say, put it down, Jefferson. I use that all the time. I tell myself. When somebody says something, I read a text or an email and I read it negative in my head and I'm ready to respond to them. Put it down, Jefferson.

你看这如何与我看文件时的状态联系起来

And so you see how that's connected to me looking at the paper

然后

and

对，把'放下'付诸行动

Yes, putting on the put

把它放在

it down on

你的桌子上。你做到了。是的。所以

your desk. You got it. Yeah. And so

那些闲聊对你来说意义重大。

that small talk means so much to you.

没错。是的。每个听众都有自己珍视的小秘密——对他们重要的事、在意的事。是与家人有关的吗？还是与你的价值观相连、驱动你想成为什么样的人的事物？

Exactly. Yeah. And everybody listening has their own little nugget that they keep to themselves of what's important to them, what matters to them. Is it something with your family? Is it something that's connected to your values that drives who you want to be?

你希望自己的遗产如何延续？

How do your legacy to play out?

说得太好了。这给了你北极星般的指引。

So good. And it gives you that North Star.

确实如此。

It really does.

对吧？在每一个时刻。

Right? In every moment.

给自己来段小小的励志对话。

Just a little mini pep talk with yourself.

这真的太棒了。现在在家的各位，想想你们的闲聊是什么？那些你想拥有、想要引导和挖掘的对话，就像你想成为的人那样，对吧？就像重新定向。是的。

That is so good. So everyone at home right now, think about what is your small talks, right? The ones that you wanna have that you're gonna like channel and tap into, like who you wanna be, right? So like redirect. Yes.

在这些时刻重新定向你的注意力。我如此喜爱这三个工具的原因在于它们能让你重掌主动权，对吧？它们赋予你力量去决定如何处理这场争论或对话，而不是让你陷入战斗或逃跑反应，甚至无法控制即将发生的事。

Redirect your focus in those moments. What I love so much about these three tools is they also just put you back in your power, right? They give you the power now to decide how I'm gonna handle this argument or how I'm gonna handle this conversation versus like you're in fight or flight and you don't even have control over what's about to happen.

你说得对。

You got it.

而你即将重复过去的模式和各种事情，这三个工具能让你重获力量。杰斐逊，我喜欢你说的——你不必参加每一场被邀请的争论。是的。哇哦。

And you're about to repeat patterns in the past and all the things and these three tools give you your power. I love Jefferson that you say, you don't have to attend every argument you're invited Yes. Woo.

而且我们被邀请的次数可不少。

And we get invited to a lot.

确实如此。确实如此。你不必参加每一场被邀请的争论。这三个工具让你有权决定：我要接受这个邀请吗？

Yes we do. Yes we do. You don't have to attend every argument you're invited to. And these three tools give you the decision. Am I gonna accept the invitation?

还是要礼貌拒绝？

Am I gonna politely decline?

对，没错。要怎么回复邀请呢？

Right, yeah. How are gonna RSVP?

是的。就是

Yeah. That's

这种有控制力的表达方式的力量。因为首先，在任何沟通中，你必须学会控制自己。这才是力量的所在。当你能在对话中稍作停顿，用理性的一面调整自己，继续以逻辑和控制的方式说话，保持冷静，你就能快速扫描自己的情绪，当你能给自己一段MIDI式的打气谈话，并且清楚自己的北极星是什么时，你就能有控制力地表达，这会在很多方面散发出自信。而且更多时候，它甚至能让你——这也是我喜爱的一点——只需承认并在他人的行为中看到这一点。

the power of saying it with control. Because first is you, with any communication, you have to learn how to control yourself. And that's where that power is going to be. And when you can have that conversational breath to inject yourself with your analytical side and continue to speak in logic and control and keep yourself calm, you're able to quick scan your emotions, when you're able to have kind of a MIDI pep talk with yourself and you know your North Star is, you can say it with control, and that exudes confidence in so many ways. And more often, it even allows you what I love about it, you just get to acknowledge it and see it in somebody else.

比如，当有人对你大喊大叫时，不要专注于‘我不敢相信你会对我大喊大叫’，而是听到‘他们现在正试图驱赶威胁’。那么他们在害怕什么？当有人像看到野生动物一样对你大喊时，你可能会大喊让它走开。你会拍手，说‘嘿，走开’——我的意思是，这完全是一回事。

Like, when somebody yells at you, instead of concentrating on, I can't believe you would yell at me, what you hear is, now they're trying to push the threat away. So what are they threatened by? When somebody's yelling like you see a wild animal, you might yell to make it go. You clap. You go, hey, get I mean, that is the same exact thing.

我们吼叫是为了驱散威胁。所以当你用克制的方式表达时，就将其转化成了好奇心。

We yell to make the threat go away. So when you say it with control, you turn it into curiosity.

我太喜欢了。记住，这期节目不仅是为你我准备的。请把它分享给你认识的每一个人，因为这也能改变他们的人生。记得购买杰斐逊的新书《下一场对话：少争论，多沟通》，并关注他全新的杰斐逊·费舍尔沟通学院。我们会在节目备注里附上链接。

I love it. Remember, this episode is not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person you know because it can change their life too. Make sure to pick up Jefferson's new book, The Next Conversation, Argue Less, Talk More, and check out his brand new Jefferson Fisher School of Communication. We'll link it in the show notes.

如果你也喜欢今天的节目，我唯一的请求就是：请在你收听或观看的平台上点击关注或订阅按钮，给节目五星好评，然后把这期内容分享给你信任的所有人。分享给生活中可能受益的亲友，发布到网络或社区里——或许正有人需要这期节目中的话语、工具和启示。你永远不知道今天分享这期节目会改变谁的命运。衷心感谢你的参与。在离开前，我想送给你几句千真万确的话。

And if you love today's episode too, well, my only ask is you please click on the follow or subscribe button for the show on the app that you're listening or watching it on, then give it a five star review and then share this episode with everyone you believe in. Share it with another person in your life who could benefit from it, post it, and share it with others online or in your community who just might need the words and tools and lessons in this episode today. You never know whose life you're meant to change today by sharing this episode. Just thank you so much for joining me. And before you go, I wanted to share some words with you that couldn't be more true.

此刻的你，以最真实的模样，已是足够且完全值得的。你值得拥有最宏大的希望、最狂野的梦想，以及世上全部无条件的爱。很荣幸能在《杰米·克恩·利马秀》每期节目中迎接你。在这里，希望你能以真我前来，疗愈所需，绽放所选，追寻使命，随心停留——因为你本就属于这里。

You, right now, exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy. You're worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams, and all the unconditional love in the world. It's an honor to welcome you to each episode of the Jamie Kern Lima show. And here, I hope you'll come as you are and heal where you need. Blossom what you choose, journey toward your calling, and stay as long as you like because you belong here.

你值得被爱，你就是爱，而我爱你。等不及要在下期《杰米·克恩·利马秀》与你重逢。你是否受困于消极的自我对话？活在'我不够好'的持续心理叙事中令人精疲力竭——我深知这点，因我大半生都陷于此。

You are worthy, you are loved, you are love and I love you. And I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima show. Do you struggle with negative self talk? Living with a constant mental narrative that you're not good enough is exhausting. I know because I spent most of my life in that habit.

你对自己所说的那些话语拥有惊人力量。当你学会掌控自我对话时，人生将彻底改变。为此我特意为你准备了一份免费资源，若你需此助力，它叫《克服消极自我对话与建立自爱的五种方法》，这份指南将教你击退消极自我对话，建立自信，培养不可动摇的自我价值感，助你勇敢追梦，坚持目标。

The words you say to yourself about yourself are so powerful. And when you learn to take control over your self talk, it's life changing. And I wanted to give you a free resource that I created for you if this is something that could benefit your life. It's called five ways to overcome negative self talk and build self love. And it's a free how to guide to overcome that negative self talk, to build confidence and develop unshakable self love so that you can dream big and keep going in the pursuit of your goals.

别再让自我否定的念头阻碍你的成长。是时候重写你的人生剧本——一个充满自爱、韧性和坚定信念的新篇章。若你准备好掌控自我叙事，建立不可动摇的自信，赋予自己追逐梦想的力量，可前往jamiekernlima.com/resources领取免费指南《停止过度思考，学会相信自己》，或点击节目备注中的链接。人际圈至关重要，因为能量会传染，自我信念亦然。我渴望与你更多相伴，尤其当你需要额外灵感时——这正是我创建免费周刊通讯的初衷。

Don't let self sabotaging thoughts hinder your progress any longer. It's time to rewrite the script of your life, one filled with self love, resilience, and unwavering belief. If you're ready to take charge of your narrative, build unwavering confidence, and empower yourself to persevere on the path to your dreams, you can grab your free guide to stop overthinking and learn to trust yourself at jamiekernlima.com/resources or click the link in the show notes below. Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter.

这也是我写给你的情书，直送你的收件箱。若尚未订阅，请前往jamiekernlimah.com登记，每周收取《与杰米的一对一》通讯，准备迎接相信自己的时刻。若你厌倦每日负面新闻，渴望灵感、技巧、工具、欢乐与爱意涌入邮箱，我正是你要找的人。在jamiekernlimah.com或节目备注链接处订阅即可。

That's also a love letter to you delivered straight to your inbox from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiekernlimah.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your One on One with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy, and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl. Subscribe at jamiekernlimah.com or in the link in the show notes.

我对这本书期待极了。知道为什么吗？

I am so excited for this book. You know why?

因为它将拯救无数人。真的会拯救他们。你那本美妙的新书《你值得》正是为此而生。

Because it's going to save so many people. It's gonna save them. Were thee your new beautiful book worthy.

拿下这本书。

Get this book.

这本书，我告诉你，

This book, I'm telling you,

这是一本书

it's a book

能改变任何拿起它的人的生命。

that can change anybody's life who picks it up.

任何曾觉得自己不够好、

Anybody who's ever felt that they were not

达不到标准、生活中缺失了什么的人。我必须告诉你，

good enough, didn't measure up, something's missing in your life. I have tell you,

它充满力量。它正在发生。它值得拥有。

it's powerful. It's happening. It's worthy.

想象一下，如果你完全相信自己会做什么。我曾是从面临不断拒绝的挣扎女服务生，通过学习如何克服自我怀疑并相信自己配得上希望与梦想，成为价值十亿美元的IT Cosmetics创始人。在我的新书《Worthy：如何相信你已足够并改变人生》中，我将分享你也能做到的方法。如果你准备好真正信任自己，突破自我怀疑的屏障，明白你的出身甚至现状都不能决定你的未来，那么《Worthy》就是为你准备的。是时候从怀疑自己是否足够转变为确信自己足够。

Imagine what would you do if you fully believed in you. I went from struggling waitress facing nonstop rejection to founder of IT Cosmetics, a billion dollar company, by learning how to overcome self doubt and believe I'm worthy of my hopes and dreams. And I'm sharing how you can too in my new book, Worthy, How to Believe You Are Enough and Transform Your Life. If you're ready to truly trust yourself and break through that barrier of self doubt and know that where you come from or even where you are right now doesn't determine where you're going, then worthy is for you. It's time to go from doubting you're enough to knowing you're enough.

是时候展现完整的自我，成为你命中注定要成为的人。是时候相信你配得上这一切。因为在生活中，我们不会成为我们想要的样子，而会成为我们相信自己配得上的样子。今天就加入Worthy行动，在各大书店获取你的《Worthy》副本，立即访问worthybook.com开启全新人生。

It's time to step into all of who you are and into the person you were born to be. And it's time to believe that you are worthy of it. Because in life, we don't become what we want. We become what we believe we're worthy of. Join the worthy movement today by grabbing your copy of Worthy anywhere books are sold and head to worthybook.com now for life right now.

《Worthy》具有开创性。天啊。我的上帝。《Worthy》。你值得拥有。

Worthy is groundbreaking. Yo. My god. Worthy. You are worthy.

这本书将会改变人们的生活。

This book is gonna change lives.

这本书将实实在在地教会你如何真正感受到

This book literally will teach you how to actually feel

自我价值，从而获得力量，拥有自信。

worthy so that you can have the strength, you can have the confidence.

书中这些策略性的课程将改变你的人生。读完这本书后，你将焕然一新。

The lessons in this book strategies will change your life. You will never be the same again after you read this book.

杰米的《值得》是必读之作。它会激励你、赋予你力量，给予你所需的希望，以及你应得的鞭策。

Jamie's book Worthy is a must read. It is going to inspire you, empower you, give you the hope that you need, and the kick in the rear end that you deserve.

杰米的《值得》简直太棒了。赠品即将停止发放，但目前都可以在worthybook.com上免费获取。能与你共同分享这期播客是我的荣幸。请注意，我并非持证治疗师，本播客也不能替代医生、专业教练、心理治疗师或其他合格专业人士的建议。

Jamie's book Worthy is incredible. The gifts are going away, but they're all free right now on worthybook.com. It's such an honor to share this podcast together with you. And please note, I'm not a licensed therapist and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.