#2240 - 罗杰·阿瓦里与昆汀·塔伦蒂诺

然后他们就说，是啊。

And And they and they were like, yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

你说得对。

You're right.

是啊。

Yeah.

为什么？

Why?

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

你的房产税总得派上用场。

Your property taxes pay for something.

你确定你们是业主可以进来检查吗？

Are you sure you're the owners to come in and just make sure?

我说，是的。

I go, yeah.

请便

Go ahead

如果你想的话。

if you want.

问题是他们有时需要凿开墙壁检查里面是否有火星残留。

The problem is sometimes they have to chop through the walls to make sure that there's not and embers inside.

是啊。

Yeah.

全部喷湿。

Spray it all down.

搞定。

Get it.

这是个

It's a

不过真他妈是个苦差事的时候也确实够苦的。

hard fucking job when it's a hard job, though.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

问题是大多数时候他们就是在摸鱼。

The thing is most of the time, they're just chilling.

是啊。

Yeah.

你懂吧？

You know?

他们还能做饭。

They get to cook.

他们还能吃饭。

They eat.

他们锻炼身体。

They work out.

哦，我会随机买些冰淇淋或披萨，送到我们的人那里，就是随便挑个日子

Oh, I take ice cream down to our guys at the like, I'll go out and buy a bunch of ice cream or some pizzas and take it down just on random days just to

嗯，其实挺有意思的。

Well, actually, was funny.

那很酷。

That's cool.

嗯，那是

Well, it was

我对消防员们没意见。

I'm okay with the fire guys.

嗯，其实挺搞笑的，因为那件事特别逗。

Well, it was actually funny because it was like one of the things that was a crack up.

就像我们之前在音像店工作时，当地消防队那样。

It was like the local fire department when we worked at video archives at our video store.

当地消防部门是我们的客户。

The local fire department was a customer.

所以他们租借各种不同的电影。

And so they'd rent different movies.

但差不多他们租的五部电影里有四部都是色情片。

But like, it was almost out of out of five movies that they would rent for pornos.

是啊。

Yeah.

不会吧。

No.

他们真是名副其实的职业本色。

They lived up to their career.

你们以前一起工作过吗？

Did you guys work together?

对啊。

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

真的假的。

No shit.

你们就是这么认识的？

That's how you guys met?

对啊。

Yeah.

我们就是

That's how we

这样认识的。

met.

哇哦。

Wow.

曼哈顿海滩的影像资料馆。

Video archives in Manhattan Beach.

这他妈也太酷了吧？

How fucking cool is that?

大概从84年开始的。

From, like, '84.

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

84年左右

'84 for about

五年时间。

five years.

对。

Yeah.

可能比84年还要早一点。

Maybe a little bit before '84.

嗯，我正式入职是在84年，因为

Well, I started officially at '84 because

我记得。

I remember.

嗯，我当时是客户。

Well, I was a customer.

是啊。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我之前就是客户。

I was a customer before.

嗯。

Yeah.

我比昆汀更早成为这里的员工。

I predated Quentin as one of the employees.

所以我当时在那里。

So I was there.

看看你们。

Look at you guys.

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

实际上，对，那就是我们。

Actually, yeah, that's that's us.

太疯狂了。

That's crazy.

我这件衬衫真是选得不太走运。

Very unfortunate shirt on my part.

就在那儿

There

那是一个

was a

八十年代有很多不幸的衬衫款式。

lot of unfortunate shirts in the eighties.

大家都感到困惑。

Everybody was confused.

他们在七十年代切断了毒品供应。

They cut the drugs off in the seventies.

整整十年没人知道该做什么。

No one knew what to do for ten years.

正是如此。

That's exactly it.

是啊。

Yeah.

这太疯狂了。

It's it's crazy.

就像，你当时根本不会想到那个行业会彻底消失。

Like, you would have never thought back then that that industry would completely vanish.

你以为百视达录像带店会永远存在。

You thought blockbuster video is gonna be around forever.

嗯，你知道，其中一件事是

Well, you know, one of the things that that

为什么？

Why?

我也没想到电影会消失。

I didn't think film was gonna vanish either.

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

正是如此。

Exactly.

我没有

I didn't

想过影院体验也会消失。

think the theater experience was gonna go away either.

但有一点确实成了音像店的丧钟，就是当人们谈论夫妻店时，当他们在劝老人家'你已经从生意中退休了'，没人真正在意。

But one of the things, though, that was the death keel to video stores that no one ever like, when they were talking mom and pop, when when they're talking old people to like, hey, you know, you've retired from your business.

如果你愿意，你已经攒下了一笔不错的养老钱。

You've got a nice little nest egg if you want it.

如果你想投资一个不错的小生意，既能与邻里打交道，又能和家人一起经营一家温馨的小店，音像店就是个不错的选择。

If you want to invest in a nice little business where you get to work with your neighborhood and be in a nice little store with your family, You know, video stores, that's a that's a good business.

呃，我对电影一窍不通。

Well, I don't know anything about movies.

你可以找人帮忙啊，比如帮你挑选片源之类的。

Well, we you have people to help you, you know, help you choose the titles and everything.

所以有很多人投资过这类生意。

So there's a lot of people that like invested in this stuff.

这似乎是个好主意。

And it seemed like a good idea.

它之所以看起来有利可图，是因为这样的概念：我卖给你这盘录像带，你为录像带付费。

The reason that it seemed like a profitable idea was the idea of like, well, you know, I sell you this video cassette and you pay for the video cassette.

但一旦你租借的时间超过了你为录像带支付的费用，之后的所有收入就都是你的了。

But the minute you rent it past the point that where you paid for you pay for the video cassette yourself, then everything else is you.

一旦你支付了实际的录像带费用，之后赚取的所有钱就都是纯利润了。

All that other money that you make from here on in is just all profit once you pay for the actual cassette.

当然，你也会有一些租得不太好的录像带。

And of course, you'll have some cassettes that don't rent as well.

但你知道，这就是生意的方式，不过应该会很顺利。

But, you know, but that's the way it works out, but it should work out great.

嗯，听起来这确实是个不错的商业模式。

Well, again, that sounds like a pretty good business model.

如果我投入这笔钱，五年后就能看到丰厚的利润回报。

Well, if I spend this money and then, you know, five years from now, boom, everything is is profit.

整个模式崩盘的关键在于，你必须不断购入新内容，因为生活不像书店那样静止不变。

Where where where it all fell apart is the idea that you always have to get new shit because like life, it's not a bookstore.

书店也需要更新库存，但这毕竟不是图书馆。

Well, bookstore need to get new stuff, too, but it's not a library.

生活不会停滞不前。

Like life doesn't stand still.

每个月都有新片上市，你必须保持竞争力，必须引进新片。

Every month, there's new titles coming out, and you have to be competitive, and you have to get the new titles.

所以即便这是问题所在，其实也不算太棘手。

And so even if it if that were the issue, that wouldn't be that big of a deal.

但如果你是小本经营的夫妻店，存储空间实在有限。

But if you're a mom and pop star, you only have so much room.

是啊。

Yeah.

所以这本质上是个货架空间的问题。

So It's a spay it's literally a space shelf space issue.

三四年内，你就会从视频场景中满溢出来。

Within three to four years, you're bursting out of the scenes of videos.

你简直要撑爆了。

You're just bursting out.

你已经没有

You've got no

多余空间了。

more room.

你已经没有多余空间了。

You've got no more room.

于是突然间，你不能再让磁带正面朝外展示，所有东西都只能侧放。

And so now all of a sudden, rather than having your your your tapes facing out now, everything is, you know, sideways.

没错。

Yes.

书脊朝外摆放。

Spine facing.

书脊朝外。

Spine facing.

而且你必须要...这永远没完没了。

And and you've gotta really and and and it just never stops.

永远没完没了。

It never stops.

下个月，你必须搞定这个。

Next month, and you gotta get this.

下下个月，你还得搞定那个。

And next month, you gotta get that.

再下个月，你还得搞定那个。

And next month, you gotta get that.

你需要一个像好市多那么大的仓库。

You need a Costco sized building.

是啊。

Yeah.

嗯，是啊。

Well, yeah.

再说一次，如果你有四家不同的音像店或者连锁店，你可以灵活调配货物，这样会轻松很多。

Well, again, if you have four different video stores or if you have a chain, you can move things around and it's easier.

但如果是夫妻店，那就只能这样了。

But when you're a mom and pop, that's just it.

你知道，夫妻经营的小店，比如自行车店，没必要每个月都进新自行车。

You know, mom and pop store and you have a bike store, you don't have to keep getting new bikes every month.

如果是陶艺店，也不用一直进新货

If you have a pottery store, you don't have to keep getting new

不管你的库存如何。

Regard regardless of your inventory.

单月。

Single month.

是啊。

Yeah.

必须不断扩充库存。

Constantly have to grow your inventory.

根本没有月份限制，你总能淘到好东西。

Constantly there's no months, you get something cool.

不需要每月都进货，但有了新品才能彰显你的特色。

You don't need to get it every month, and you're defined by you having the new shit.

后来当像百视达这样资金雄厚的公司入场时，又出现了新问题。

And then there was another problem when when companies that were massively funded like Blockbuster came onto the scene.

他们会进行这种灰色市场采购——比如一口气买50张《死忠粉》碟片。

They would go in and they would kind of do this sort of gray market purchasing where they would buy, you know, 50 diehards.

而夫妻店根本负担不起，最多买一两张，可能三张来满足需求。

And a mom and pop store can't afford to buy more than one or two diehards or three maybe to satisfy your Yeah.

你投入的资金就像...好吧。

The thing that you'd spend, you you spend the money like, okay.

比如早期录像带时代的大片《壮志凌云》就是我们的拳头产品。

Like, you know, one of our big titles when we in the early days of video was Top Gun.

是啊。

Yeah.

《壮志凌云》。

Top Gun.

完美

Perfect

的例子。

example.

所以你会看到，就连那些夫妻店也会进。

So you get, like you know, you you you'll get even the mom and pop stars.

他们会进12或15张。

You'll get 12 or 15.

因为大家都想看。

Because everyone wants to see it.

而且迟早会租出去，被人借走。

And at some point, it's gonna be out, and it's gonna be checked out.

所以你必须满足你的需求

And so you've gotta satisfy your

否则你就会...是的

Or you're gonna yeah.

接下来的两周你会租下那全部的15部片子

You'll rent all 15 of those for the next two weeks.

你知道吗？

You know?

虽然一开始会很不错，但之后你就得把它们以每部10美元的价格处理掉，当热潮消退之后

It's gonna be, you know, it's gonna be good, but then now you now you have to sell them off, you know, for $10 apiece, you know, once the the, you know, once the the desire has died

了。

down.

这主要落在我们身上，因为我们是一家小店，而且基本上就在一个街区外就有家百视达

Largely fell on us because we were a smaller store, and we had a Blockbuster just a block away, basically.

连一个街区都不到

Not even a block.

我们说的是在同一个该死的

We're talking about in the same fucking

是啊。

Yeah.

基本上，就在

Basically, in

同一个地方，不是隔一个街区。

the same Not a block away.

它就在那个街区上。

It was in the On the block.

对。

Yeah.

在购物中心

In the shopping center

我们所在的那个。

that we were in.

是啊。

And yeah.

所以你错过了最有趣的部分。

And so Well, you're you're missing the best the most interesting thing.

重点不在于批量采购。

It's not about the the bulk buy.

批量采购就是那么回事。

The bulk buy is that's what it is.

但这是每个夫妻店都要面对的问题，尤其是加盟店。

It's but that's every mom and pop store has to deal with that depending dealing with a a franchise.

不过这改变了你的策略。

Well, what it changes your strategy, though.

没错。

Yeah.

但百视达的做法——他们以此闻名，而且特别讲究策略——他们会说：'好，我们要进军这个城镇。'

But what Blockbuster would do and they were famous for doing this, they were famous for doing this and but particularly they were strategic about it is like, okay, we're going to go into this town.

好的，我们要进军曼哈顿海滩了。

Okay, we're going into Manhattan Beach.

那里最大的音像店是哪家？

What's the biggest video store?

曼哈顿海滩最受欢迎的本地音像店是哪家？

What's the most popular local video store in Manhattan Beach?

嗯，那应该是影像档案馆。

Well, that would be video archives.

他们就在塞普尔维达大道上。

They're right on Sepulveda.

你知道的，就在仓库街对面。

You know, they're right across the street from the warehouse.

好吧。

All right.

那家店在百视达之前就是行业巨头之一。

Which is like was the big which is one of the big before Blockbuster.

它原本是仓库租赁业务，后来转型为仓库唱片和磁带。

It was rent was warehouse, warehouse records and tapes.

但他们依然设法在仓库对面存活了下来。

And and they still managed to survive across the street from warehouse.

然后百视达做了什么？

And then what does Blockbuster do?

他们收购了我们购物中心里的Shakies披萨店，就在我们的购物中心。

They buy the Shakies Pizza that is in our shopping center, our shopping center.

他们搬进了Shakies披萨店，因为觉得既然有仓库和这些影像档案店在，这里显然是个好地方。

And they moved into the Shakies Pizza because it's like, wow, okay, with warehouse and with the these video archives guys, well, this is obviously the place to be.

所以他们直接买下Shakies披萨店开业，但还是没能把我们挤垮。

So they just bought out the Shaky's Pizza and opened up, and they still couldn't shut us down.

是啊。

Yeah.

哇。

Wow.

我确信他们有

I'm sure they had

抱着'我们只需把他们扫到一边'的态度

the attitude of, we'll just brush them aside.

哦，当然，当然这就是

Oh, of course that's of course that's how

他们的作风

they are.

因此，由于你只能拿到三到十二部《壮志凌云》之类的拷贝，远不及百视达的数量，你最终不得不专注于思考：这周末我该如何说服顾客看《壮志凌云》之外的电影？

And so consequently, because you don't you can only get three or 12 Top Guns, whatever it is, it's not as many as Blockbuster is getting, you end up having to focus on, like, how am I gonna convince my clientele to watch something other than Top Gun this weekend?

于是这个责任就落到我们头上，得说'你租不到《壮志凌云》'

And so if Well landed on us to basically say, oh, you can't get Top Gun.

那不如看看这部电影？

Well, how about this movie?

但你必须得看看

Well, but You gotta see.

但你知道，这就是酷咖啡店和星巴克的差别。

But, you know, it's, you know, it's the difference between being a cool coffee place and being Starbucks.

对吧。

Right.

明白吗？

You know?

或者说，连锁酒吧和酷酷的小乔酒吧的区别。

Or or, you know, a a franchise bar and a cool little Joe's bar.

懂了吗？

Alright?

而且酒保认识你。

And the bartender knows you.

没错。

Right.

你懂我意思吧？

You know?

所以情况就像这样，听着，如果你那个周末无论如何都必须看《壮志凌云》，那就去街对面的仓库拿吧。

So it's like, look, if you just absolutely positively need Top Gun that weekend, then go to across the street to the warehouse and get it.

好吧。

All right.

我们有什么就提供什么。

We have what we have.

但有些顾客会天天来，或者隔天来，你知道，当他们租的带子到期的时候。

But we had customers that like came in every fucking day and part of their day or every other day, you know, when their tanks were rent were due.

他们都是街坊邻居，常来光顾。

And they were people of the neighborhood and they came in.

他们不仅来租东西，还会归还物品，然后再租新的。

And not only did they rent stuff, they dropped stuff off, and then they rented new stuff out.

而且他们还会进来跟我们聊上20分钟或45分钟，几乎每天都来。

But, like, they came in to talk to us for twenty minutes or forty five minutes, like, every other day.

而且没有算法告诉他们该做什么。

And there's no algorithm to tell them what to do.

我们就是算法。

We're the algorithm.

是啊。

Yeah.

你得知道，哦，这家伙在约会之夜，所以他们会想要这种浪漫喜剧类型的电影。

You have to know, oh, this guy oh, they're on a date night, so they're gonna want this kind of rom com type movie.

或者这家伙，他真的很喜欢越南妓女色情录像带。

Or this guy, he really likes, you know, Vietnamese hooker porn tapes.

我得确保给他找些类似的东西。

I gotta make sure to find something like that for him.

那些孩子们，他们会想要些滑板题材的东西。

And those kids, they're gonna want, you know, some skate stuff.

所以我得了解所有关于Bones Brigade滑板视频之类的内容。

So I've gotta learn all about the Bones Brigade videos and stuff like that.

所以，没错，你就得琢磨怎么向他们推销他们没听说过的东西。

And so, yeah, you just kinda figured out, like, how can I upsell the stuff that they haven't heard of?

因为无一例外，每个进来的人，他们但是

Because invariably, anybody who comes in, they But

你把它说得比实际情况更愤世嫉俗了些。

you're making it just sound a little bit more cynical than it was.

你把它说得

You are making it sound

比实际情况更愤世嫉俗，更像是更像是一种挑战。

more cynical than More like more like the challenge.

因为，就像一对夫妻那样。

Because, like, a married couple.

等等。

Wait.

但我们并不完全像夫妻那样。

But it's not Totally, we're like a married couple.

没那么愤世嫉俗。

It wasn't that cynical.

没有那些好处。

Without the benefits.

告诉他们整个故事，亲爱的。

Tell them the whole story, honey.

我们只是 告诉他们整个故事。

We're just Tell them the whole story.

我们当时正在闲逛，他们也过来一起玩。

We were just hanging out, and they're coming and hanging out too.

是啊。

Yeah.

然后我们会放部电影，你知道的，放上电影，边看片段边讨论。

And and we would pop a movie on and, like, you know, pop the movie on and be watching scenes from it and be talking about the scenes.

接着会有顾客进来，可能很多顾客，他们就自然加入了谈话。

Then a customer would come in or many customers would come in, and they'd just become part of the conversation.

然后我们就，你知道，哦不。

And we would have, like, you know, a Oh, no.

我是说聊天室，不。

I mean chat room in the No.

不。

No.

就像是，

There was, like

没有。

no.

大概有15位顾客，我每周和他们聊五小时，持续了五年。

There were there there was about, like, 15 customers that, like, you know, I talked to five hours a week, every week for five years.

是啊。

Yeah.

你知道，

You know,

因为他们一来，我每次至少得聊上四十分钟。

because they come in and I'm like, what's been at least forty minutes every other day?

我期待着见到他们。

And I expected to see them.

你知道的，我看的就是电视上播的那些。

And, you know, the I watched what I watched on TV.

我看的是电影里的内容，而他们看的也是电影里的内容。

I saw what I saw at the movies, and and then they saw what they saw in the movies.

他们看的就是电视上播的那些。

They watched what they watched on TV.

我们都会讨论这些，他们会聊视频内容，然后讨论接下来要看什么，如此这般。

We all talked about it, and they talked about the videos and then what else we're gonna get and da da da da da.

如果你喜欢那个，你肯定也会喜欢这个。

And if you like that, you're gonna like this.

关于我们的生活以及一切。

About our lives and everything.

是啊。

Yeah.

那么在这整个过程中，你们是何时决定要自己他妈的拍电影的？

So at what point in time, while this is all going on, do you guys decide we need to make our own fucking movies?

嗯，其实一直都是这样。

Well, it was always the case.

其实我们一直在考虑，罗杰还有罗杰的另一个朋友，就是那个把我和罗杰联系起来的人。

Well, we were always thinking well well well, Roger and and Roger had another friend that it was a guy that connected me and Roger together.

有个叫斯科特的家伙，后来在某个时间点自杀了

It was a guy named Scott who who took his own life at

他父亲还拥有另一家录像店，我也在那里工作过，昆汀以前常去那家店。

a certain point of His father owned another video story that I worked at as well and that Quentin used to come into.

但问题是，当我还在想着拍电影的时候，罗杰和斯科特已经在用超8毫米胶片拍电影了。

But the thing is, though, that while I was just thinking about making movies, Roger and Scott were, like, making movies on Super eight.

是啊。

Yeah.

他们当时在用超8毫米胶片拍些恐怖小短片和僵尸电影。

And they were making little horror films and little zombie movies on on on on super eight.

然后还有超自然惊悚片。

And then, like Supernatural thrillers.

而且他们拍的那个《逆转单词》就是部僵尸电影。

And they're they're the word turns is a zombie movie.

是啊。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

算是吧。

It's kind of an yeah.

算是僵尸题材的。

It's kind of a zombie yeah.

更像是部死后世界题材的电影。

More of an afterlife film.

好的。

Okay.

也许吧。

Maybe.

行。

Okay.

不过你拍的是正经恐怖片。

And but but you're making, like, legit horror films.

我还在琢磨这些事，这些人已经在像山姆·雷尼那样干了。

I'm just thinking about this stuff, and these guys are like Sam Rainey ing it.

懂吗？

You know?

像山姆·雷尼那样。

Like Sam Rainey.

他们在后院捣鼓自己的东西，花上三个月左右的时间打磨。

They're making their their shit in their backyard and working on it for, like, three months and stuff.

是啊。

Yeah.

而且你知道，我和所有朋克乐手都是朋友，因为那是洛杉矶朋克圈。

And, you know, like, I I was friends with all the punk guys because it was, like, LA punk.

所以他们经常出现在我的电影里。

And so they were always in my movies.

没错。

Yeah.

所有朋克乐手都参演过我的电影，因为他们对媒体很在行。

All the all the punks were in my movies because they were media literate.

他们热爱电影，所以很容易被吸引来参与演出。

They loved movies, and so they were easy to pull in and and to be in the film.

所以他们总是扮演那种，你知道的，殴打别人的朋克团伙之类的角色。

So they were always playing, like, you know, the gang of punks who beat somebody up or something.

所以那一定是

So it must have been

在音像店工作确实很酷，因为这本质上就像接受了一种教育。

cool working at a video store, though, because it's essentially like you have it's like an education.

嗯，当真正想要拍电影的时刻来临，当我们讨论拍电影的时候——我记得那大概是在《性、谎言和录像带》或者《她说了算》那个时期。

Well, when the time came where we actually wanted to be making movies, where we were talking about making movies because I can remember when I think it was it was around the time of sex, lies, and video tape or maybe she's gotta have it.

不是。

No.

不是。

No.

绝对是《性、谎言和》

Definitely sex, lies, and

录像带。

video tape.

但我记得你来找我说，时机到了。

But I remember you coming to me and saying, the moment is happening.

是啊。

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

时机到了。

It's happening.

就像，小成本电影也有机会拍出来了。

Like, small a small movie is possible to get made.

就像，这个机遇正降临在我们这个年纪的人身上。

Like like, it's happening for us, for guys our age.

对。

Yeah.

我是说，我是指，你知道那个吗？

I mean, I I mean, the one you know?

那是

It was

就像《性、谎言和录像带》就像是那个一炮而红的西雅图乐队一样。

like the the sex ties and videotape was sort of like the like the Seattle band that broke.

好的。

All right.

但我当时已经在看《血迷宫》了，那是我的

But I was already looking at Blood Simple was my

是我的终点。

was my end.

是啊。

Yeah.

那是一部很棒的电影。

That's a great movie.

是我的终点。

Was my end.

好吧。

All right.

当时的情况是，好吧。

Where it was that was, okay.

这是一部艺术电影。

It's an artistic movie.

它很有艺术气息。

It's our it's arty.

它很有趣。

It's funny.

它可以在艺术影院上映。

It can it can play the arthouses.

它可以走艺术院线路线，有一定的类型片基础。

It can play the arthouse, there's a genre base to it.

是啊。

Yeah.

确实有类型片的基础。

There's a genre base.

就像，你知道的，这是一部惊悚片。

It's like, you know, it's a thriller.

这是一部带有黑色电影风格的惊悚片，以特定方式呈现，但它有类型片基础。

It's a it's a film noiri kind of thriller done in a certain kind of way, but it's a genre base.

对。

Yeah.

我说，这才是艺术电影的创作方式。

I go, that's the way you do an art film.

就这么做。

You do it.

你要把它做成基于类型的艺术电影。

You make it a genre based art film.

如果你保持一只脚踩在娱乐性上。

If you keep one foot in in because it's entertaining.

没错。

Yeah.

如果你在某种程度上保持一只脚踩在剥削电影或类型片上，如果你的根基始终在类型片里，那你就可以为所欲为。

If you keep one foot in exploitation in some way in genre, if you keep your foundation in genre, then you can do whatever you want.

比如，我最喜欢的电影导演是斯坦利·库布里克。

Like, my favorite filmmaker is Stanley Kubrick.

我热爱库布里克的电影。

I love Kubrick movies.

好的。

Okay.

基本上可以纵观他所有的作品，然后说每一部都是类型片。

One can pretty much look at all of his films and say each and every one is a genre film.

他有科幻电影。

He's got his science fiction movies.

他拍过恐怖片。

He's got a horror movie.

就连《巴里·林登》在当时也算古装剧情片

Even Barry Lyndon as a costume drama at the time

这属于古装类型片。

It's a costume genre.

这是一种类型片。

It's a genre.

是啊。

Yeah.

那是个稳固可靠、能赚钱的类型。

A that was a solid, bankable genre.

原著小说是

The book is

如果你能...我在拍第一部电影时就明白这个道理，昆汀，我记得你之前也谈到过这点。

if you can if you can and I knew this making my first film, and I know, Quentin, you were talking about it.

这是我们当时经常讨论的话题：必须确保拍出观众想看的电影，比如类型片，我当时管它们叫剥削电影。

This was a conversation we were actively having of, we have to make sure that we make a movie people wanna see, like a genre film, like and I was calling them exploitation movies at the time.

我想始终保持一只脚踩在剥削电影领域。

Like, I wanna keep one foot in exploitation.

但与此同时，我又想着要尽可能提升影片的艺术性。

And then but at the same time, I'm like, well, I kind of also wanna make, like you know, I wanna elevate it as much as possible.

所以当我准备拍摄第一部电影《杀死佐伊》时，我就知道这会是一部银行抢劫题材的电影，因为我是围绕一个特定场景来构思剧本的。

And so when the time came for me to make my first first film, Killing Zoe, you know, it was like I knew it was gonna be a bank robbery because I wrote it around a location.

你知道吗，这是劳伦斯·本德在为《落水狗》选景时发现的。

You know, we we found this while they were scouting for Reservoir Dogs, Lawrence Bender.

嗯哼。

Uh-huh.

或许你也曾考察过那个场景。

Or maybe you also had scouted that location.

没错。

Yeah.

发现了这个银行场景。

Found this bank location.

劳伦斯打电话给我说，嘿，

And Lawrence called me up, and he's like, hey.

我正在联系所有认识的编剧。

I'm calling all the writers I know.

我找到了这个银行场景。

I found this bank location.

如果你手头有发生在银行里的剧本，我们就能凑个几十万美元在那里拍部电影。

And if you can if you have a script that takes place in a bank, we can kick together a couple $100,000 and make a movie there.

这个场景简直完美得不可思议。

It's like this complete solid amazing location.

我当时就说，天啊。

And I said, oh my god.

劳伦斯，你今天走运了。

Lawrence, this is your lucky day.

我刚好有个发生在银行的剧本。

I I happen to have a script that takes place in a bank.

然后我就根据这个场景快速写了个剧本。

And then I just quickly wrote one, like, based on the location.

写的时候我就在想，好吧。

And as I was writing it, I was thinking, okay.

要知道，我明白这将是一场银行劫案。

You know, I know that it's gonna be a bank robbery.

这是家银行。

It's a bank.

所以我清楚这会是场银行抢劫，而这是我坚持的可靠赚钱类型片。

And so I know it's gonna be a bank robbery, and that's my solid bankable genre that I'm going to to stick with.

但我知道我想在此基础上更进一步，我刚游历欧洲回来。

But I knew I wanted to do something more with it, and I had just traveled through Europe.

而且我一直在跟昆汀讲述欧洲旅行的故事。

And and I had been telling Quentin the stories of traveling through Europe.

他说，哦，你该拍部电影叫《罗杰去旅行》。

He's like, oh, you should do a movie called Roger Takes a Trip.

然后

And

我还是觉得该用那个片名。

I still think it should have been called that.

嗯，我觉得这是另一部电影。

Well, I think it's a different movie.

我觉得这是另一部...我不认为这是...不。

I think it's a different I don't think it's a No.

你有点...

You kinda

拍了《罗杰去旅行》。

made Roger Takes a Trip.

只是加了些银行劫匪进去。

Just added bank robbers in it.

我本来可以叫《罗杰去旅行》的。

I had been Roger Takes a Trip.

我当时在巴黎。

I had been in Paris.

我碰巧遇到一个洛杉矶认识的法国人，他说要带我看真正的巴黎。

I had bumped into a guy that I knew from Los Angeles who was a French guy, and he was like, oh, I'll show you the real Paris.

我和他以及他的朋友们一起出去了，亨利克、让、克劳德，都是电影里的那些角色。

And I went out with he and his friends, Henrique, Jean, Claude, all the characters from the movie.

我和他以及他的朋友们一起出去了，他开车带我逛遍了巴黎。

I went out with him and his friends, and we you know, he drove me through Paris.

然后突然之间，他开始吸食海洛因，我就想，这...这是从你开始的吗？

And next thing I know, he's doing heroin, and I'm like, and and it started With you?

不是。

No.

不是我。

Not with me.

我...我...

I I

现在我们吸海洛因了。

Now we do heroin.

是啊。

Yeah.

就像是，现在我们一起吸海洛因。

It was like, now we do heroin.

抓住我的胳膊。

Hold my arm.

我确实抓住了他的胳膊。

I did hold his arm.

而且，就像，我从来没有...是的。

And, like, I had never yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我从未见过那样的场景。

I had never seen anything like that.

像是，把他的胳膊绑起来？

Like, tied his arm off?

他是不是说，抓住我的胳膊？

He's like, hold my arm?

不。

No.

不。

No.

不。

No.

是他负责绑扎的。

He was the tying off.

对。

Yeah.

罗杰负责绑扎。

Roger was the tying off.

扶住我的胳膊，我要注射了。

Hold my arm while I shoot up.

天啊。

Jeez.

但是，他并不完全知道这一切会发生，不知道之前所有事情都只是这个的前奏。

So But, like, he doesn't quite know that this is all gonna happen, that that that everything else has been a preamble to this.

是的。

Yes.

突然之间，那件事发生了。

Suddenly, that happens.

然后他

And then He

只是需要一个一起吸海洛因的伙伴。

just needed a heroin partner.

是啊。

Yeah.

他的朋友们还说，哦，喝酒喝到鼻子都没感觉了。

And his friends were like, oh, drinking to the nose doesn't even affect me anymore.

你知道吗，就像我在记录这些台词时想的那样，这真是绝妙的素材。

You know, things like I'm and I'm, like, writing these lines down, like, this is great shit.

于是我回来后，就把整个故事和这些家伙的事告诉了昆汀，比如在香榭丽舍大街兜风的事。

And so I get back, and I tell Quentin, like, about this whole story and about these guys and going you know, driving around the Champs Elysees.

这里是那些男妓出卖自己的地方。

This is where the fags sell themselves.

哦，现在我们进到下面的夜店，吸更多海洛因。

Oh, now we go into the into the nightclub down below, and we do more heroin.

我就问，那警察呢？

I'm like, what about the cops?

警察不会说什么吗？

Aren't the police gonna say anything?

这里比你知道的那些地方安全多了。

It's safer here than on you know?

然后你说，在巴黎任何地方都能吸海洛因。

And you're like, you can do heroin anywhere in Paris.

但事实并非如此。

And it was like no.

我在《世界报》工作。

I work at Le Monde.

基本上，那部电影里的所有情节，都是我曾亲眼目睹的真实事件。

Like, all of it was, like basically, everything in that movie, I you know, was stuff that I'd actually seen.

所以当要把它拍成银行抢劫题材时，我就一直在琢磨这个想法。

And so when the time came to make it as a bank robbery film, I just you know, I'm thinking about it.

我当时想，虽然是银行劫案题材，但核心要讲的是这群人的故事。

I'm like, well, it's a bank robbery movie, but it's gonna be about these guys.

最后就变成了一个关于某人前往某地，却发现所有认知都被颠覆的故事。

And it just became a movie about a guy going someplace and the and everything that he thought he knew was wrong.

就像你以为自己很了解某个久未谋面的朋友。

You know, like, you think you know, you haven't seen your friend in a while.

你去见他。

You go see him.

好吧。

Okay.

这一切都围绕着那种友情与误解展开——他以为朋友在银行楼下。

It's all about that that kind of friendship and misconception that he's downstairs at the bank.

反派让·伊夫·甘格拉德其实在楼上。

Jean Yves Ganglade, the bad guy, is upstairs.

混乱正往楼上蔓延。

The chaos is going upstairs.

他对楼上发生的一切毫不知情。

He has no idea what's going on upstairs.

于是这自然就成了电影的核心主题。

And so this kind of just became what the movie was about.

所以我快速写好了剧本，但后来我们甚至没在那个取景地拍摄。

And so I just quickly wrote the script, and then, you know, we ended up not even using that location to shoot the movie in.

最终在洛杉矶市中心完成了拍摄。

It came together later, and I ended up shooting in Downtown LA instead.

不过...

But but it was

种子已经播下。

The seed was planted.

种子

The seed

已经播下。

was planted.

所以这个想法就是，好吧。

So the idea was, okay.

我要把它拍成一部法国电影。

I'm gonna make a French film out of it.

因为我人在洛杉矶。

Because I I'm, like, in LA.

我正在拍电影。

I'm making a film.

比如，我能做点什么与众不同的事？

Like, what can I do that would be different?

就像，这样会让它不仅仅是一部银行抢劫电影。

Like, that would make this more than just a bank robbery movie.

正因为刚刚经历的那些事，我就想，好吧，我要拍一部法国电影。

And because of the experience I had just had, was like, well, I'm gonna make a French film.

好吧。

Okay.

我根本没资格拍法国电影。

I had no business making a French movie.

我甚至都不太会说法语。

I didn't even really speak French.

我只是觉得这样会挺酷的。

I just thought it would be kinda cool.

我喜欢那种很酷的法国女孩，还有那些油腻邋遢的法国混混和罪犯。

I like, you know, a cool French girl and, like, greasy, dirty French guys and French criminals.

我一直很喜欢阿兰·德龙和《武士》里他的样子——他穿西装的方式、拿枪的姿势，还有走路的派头。

And I always loved, you know, Alain Delon and Les Samurai, you know, the way he wears a suit and the way he carries a gun and the way he walks around.

我就是，你知道的，完全痴迷于这一切。

And I just, like, I, you know, just adored all of that.

所以就想，不如把我脑海中所有的这些想法都放进电影里。

And so it was like, well, let's put all of that kind of space that's in my brain into the movie.

然后这些电影往往会自己活起来。

And then the movies tend to take on a life of their own.

它们就像孩子一样。

They tend to be like children.

你知道，它最初只是一个概念，一个构想孕育出构想，然后经历萌芽阶段。

You know, it starts off as a concept, as a conception has a conception, and then it has an infancy.

然后你就像抚养孩子一样，将它培育成一部电影。

And then you're raising that child to become the movie.

在这个过程中，你其实只是在保护它，让它自然成长为它注定要成为的样子，而不是强行把它变成别的样子。

And along the way, you're really just kinda protecting it and trying to allow it to grow in to what it's gonna grow into without forcing it to become something that it's not.

这需要一点微妙的平衡。

And and it's a little bit of a balance.

你必须做个好父母，这意味着要给它一点自由成长的空间，即使你不知道它会变成什么样子。

You have to be a good parent, which means you have to give it a little bit of freedom to grow into something that you don't know what it's gonna be.

但同时，你也必须愿意对它保持坚定。

But at the same time, you have to be willing to, you know, be strong with it as well.

所以

And so

一部被严重低估的电影。

a very underappreciated movie.

这他妈是部杰作

It's a fucking great

电影。

movie.

我觉得我真的很擅长制作被低估的电影。

Think I'm I think I'm really good at making underappreciated movies.

我想我的职业生涯就是靠被低估的电影建立起来的。

I think I've had a I've built a career with an underappreciated movie.

这些就是你在音像店里会寻找的经典之作。

Those are the classics that you would look for in a video store.

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

绝对如此。

Absolutely.

你寻找那些真正优秀却无人知晓的电影。

You look for the movies that were really good that no one knew about.

《黑暗午后》不在其中，但我们能让你杀得痛快。

Dark day afternoon's not in, but we could get you killing so.

没错。

Right.

那么电影中我最喜欢的时刻——我喜欢看那个家伙被活活烧死的场景。

So my favorite moment in the movie well, I like it when the guy gets burned alive.

好的。

Alright.

你知道的，就是那个汉堡的场景。

You know, the the the hamburger scene.

但那

But that

是的。

was Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

但我记得他们试图说服你剪掉那段，他们说，不行。

But I remember they were trying to talk to you to cut out, and they go, no.

不行。

No.

你不能剪掉那个。

You can't cut that out.