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乔·罗根播客。
Joe Rogan podcast.
去看看。
Check it out.
乔
The Joe
罗根体验。
Rogan experience.
展示我的一天。
Showing my day.
晚上看乔·罗根播客。
Joe Rogan podcast by night.
整天。
All day.
那边在滚动。
There's the rolling.
怎么了？
What's up?
约翰·塞纳这混蛋来了。
John Cena in the fucking house.
把这些戴上。
Put these on.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
咱们把这些戴上。
Let's put these on.
假装我们是专业的。
Pretend we're professional.
什么事？
What's up?
很高兴见到你，老兄。
Good to see you, man.
非常感谢邀请我来。
Thanks so much for having me.
很荣幸能来到这里。
Appreciate being here.
没有Tony Hinchliffe在场，我绝不可能单独采访职业摔角手。
And there's no way I'm having a pro wrestler on without Tony Hinchliffe.
不可能的。
Impossible.
他是专家。
He's the expert.
他对职业摔跤的了解比我对UFC的了解还多。
He knows more about pro wrestling than I know about UFC.
是啊。
Yeah.
我有时会随手翻译些零碎内容。
Sometimes I translate little things here and there.
挺酷的。
That's cool.
没关系。
It's alright.
是啊。
Yeah.
他必须的。
He has to.
他必须的。
He has to.
而且他也是你的超级粉丝。
And he's a giant fan of yours too.
要知道，另一个你的超级粉丝是辛普森。
You know, else is a giant fan of yours is Simpson.
布莱恩·辛普森昨晚一直在谈论你有多聪明。
Brian Simpson was going on last night about how intelligent you are.
真的很有趣。
It was really interesting.
你知道吗？
You know?
当然是我。
Sure it was me.
是啊，老兄。
Yeah, man.
嗯，你他妈会说普通话，这有点疯狂。
Well, you do speak fucking Mandarin, which is kinda crazy.
是啊。
Yeah.
是啊。
Yeah.
你花了多长时间学会的？
How long did it take you to learn that?
老兄，我我花了相当长的时间学习。
Man, I I was I was doing that for quite a long time.
后来我的学习有点荒废了。
I've since kinda kinda declined on the studies.
学习普通话给我的一大启示是：懂一门语言并不等于懂它的文化。
A wonderful takeaway from the study of Mandarin, Just because you know a language doesn't mean you know the culture.
啊。
Ah.
所以那段经历非常棒。
So that was a fantastic experience with that.
但我我学了差不多十年中文，还是没法流利对话。
But I I studied Mandarin for, like, a decade, and I would say, like, not even conversationally fluent.
这对我来说真是座难爬的山。
It's it was a really tough hill to climb for me.
嗯，看起来确实是一座大山。
Well, it seems like a really big hill.
只是它很不一样。
Just it's it's just different.
你知道，你已经习惯了语言和它的结构。
You know, you're used to language and the structure.
读读看。
Read it.
你知道吗，阅读真的很疯狂。
You know, the reading is crazy.
要阅读。
To read.
而且，要阅读所有的汉字，理解所有内容。
And, like, reading all the characters, understanding everything.
是啊。
Yeah.
你花了多长时间学习？
How long did it take you to learn?
大概十年。
Around ten years.
哇哦。
Woah.
是啊。
Yeah.
然后，我的意思是，我会用中文做梦，进行对话并且完全沉浸其中。
And then, like, I mean, I I would dream in Mandarin and, like, have conversations and kick down in that.
所以它就像变成了第二语言，但你知道，我在中国住过一段时间。
So it it became like a like a a second language, but, you know, I I lived in China for a little bit.
我还和成龙一起拍过电影。
I filmed a movie with Jackie Chan.
所以我在那里待了大概六七个月。
So I was there for, like, six or seven months.
我曾住在那里，可能是在内蒙古的银川。
I lived there in, maybe we were in Inner Mongolia, Yinchuan province.
就是，在中国。
So, like, like, in China.
哇。
Wow.
而且，那段时光很有趣。
And, it was fun.
是啊。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
你去过蒙古吗？
You were in Mongolia?
内蒙古。
Inner Inner Mongolia.
是啊。
Yeah.
有什么区别？
What's the difference?
我不知道，因为我从没去过蒙古，但在内蒙古时，伙计，我是那里唯一长得像我的人，大家都会说，看。
I don't know because I've never I've never been in Mongolia, but Inner Mongolia was man, I was I was the only person that looked like me there, and everyone would say, look.
是个大白人。
It's it's big white guy.
Hondabai ren。
Hondabai ren.
Hondabai ren。
Hondabai ren.
他们就这么叫我。
That would call me.
哇。
Wow.
是啊。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
哇。
Wow.
那么是什么促使你去学那个的？
So what motivated you to learn that?
看起来像是
It seems like
一项艰巨的任务。
such a task.
老实说，伙计，我生活中的一切似乎都与摔跤有关。
Honestly, man, it was everything in my life seems to be wrestling related.
那确实与摔跤有关。
It was wrestling related.
比如，WWE的影响力无处不在。
Like, WWE's reach spread everywhere.
我是说，我很幸运能在各地表演，从莫斯科、菲律宾、南非到缅因州的班戈，几乎每个地方都去过了，除了中国。
I mean, I've I've been able to lucky enough to perform everywhere from, like, Moscow, Philippines, South Africa, Bangor, Maine, you every place in between except China.
中国似乎是唯一不理解我们在做什么的地方。
China was, like, the one place that didn't understand what we did.
所以这真的像是一种通用语言，就像UFC一样，你可以把音量调小，但你能看出来，哦，这是两个人在对决，强者胜出。
So it it's literally like it's a it's a universal language because you can turn it's like UFC, like you turn the volume down but you can see like, oh this is two guys, best guy wins.
我明白了。
I get it.
中国人就是不明白。
The Chinese just didn't get it.
所以我想，如果我们有个超级巨星会说中文，也许能帮助打破这个障碍。
So I figured if like one of our superstars spoke the language, maybe that would help break down the barrier.
我们采纳了你的想法吗？
We got in for your idea?
这是我的主意，但WWE提供了这个项目，而且我认为他们现在仍然提供。
It was my idea, but the WWE offers and I think they still offer it.
他们提供免费的第二语言课程。
They they offer a free second language program.
就像他们推出财务建议计划时那样，他们会支付部分继续教育费用和免费的第二语言课程。
So like when they rolled out the initiative of like financial advice and they'll pay for portions of your secondary education and free second language.
这大概是在2011、2012年的大型人才会议上，在一个礼堂里。
This is like 2011, two thousand and twelve big talent meeting in like an auditorium.
我当时是坐在前排的老家伙之一，心里想着这些年轻人根本不知道他们有多幸运。
I'm one of the old guys at the time sitting in the front being like, these kids don't know how good they have it.
我应该站起来告诉他们...但我转念一想，算了。
I should stand up and tell them to I'm like, no.
去他的。
Fuck that.
我实际上要以身作则，去学一门语言。
I'm actually gonna lead by example and take a language.
所以我当场就报名了中文课程，因为我想让我们进入中国市场。
So I signed up right then then and there for China Chinese because I wanted to get us into China.
哇。
Wow.
就像我说的，确实有效果，但效果有限。
And like I said, it worked, but it kinda only worked.
而且我认为，实际上现在中国正在经历摔角对他们的意义。
And they I think I think actually right now, China is experiencing what wrestling is to them.
因为我读过一些文章，那边有些摔角推广活动办得很红火。
Because, like, there's I've read articles that there's promotions over there that are thriving.
所以，现在他们算是明白了。
So, like, now they get it.
哦，所以他们有自己的推广活动？
Oh, so they have their own promotion?
是啊。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
这是最近才发展起来的吗？
And this is a fairly recent thing?
我想是的。
I think so.
我刚读到最近的报道，职业摔角在中国蓬勃发展，他们有自己独特的发展方式。
Like, I just read recent articles that, like, pro wrestling is thriving in China, and they have their own, like, their own way of doing it.
哇。
Wow.
是啊。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
哇。
Wow.
太疯狂了。
That's wild.
职业摔角业务如此扩张，他们竟能如此开明地为运动员提供第二语言课程，这太疯狂了。
It's wild how, like, expansive the pro wrestling business is that they would be that open minded to say, like, let's let's give second language programs to the athletes.
嗯，你知道，我只是觉得这个行业的起源与嘉年华有关这件事很奇怪。
Well, you know, I just it's it's weird that the origins of the business are carnival related.
它就像嘉年华的一个表演项目，然后变得极其地域化。
It is like a carnival attraction, and then it it was, like, ruthlessly territorial.
当它走向全国时，仍在摸索自己的发展道路。
And then when it became national, was still trying to find its way.
这几乎就像你在职业体育中看到的那样。
It's it's almost like you see pro sports doing it.
你知道，一项运动越成功，他们为参赛者和运动员提供的福利就越多。
You know, the more a sport succeeds, the more benefits they offer to their competitors and athletes.
所以，WWE某种程度上达到了这种境界。
So, you know, WWE kinda hit that stride.
是啊。
Yeah.
这做法真是太明智了。
It's just such a smart thing to do.
你知道吗？
You know?
对。
Yeah.
当你给旗下选手提供获取知识与智慧的机会时，可悲的是我不清楚有多少人曾经或仍在利用这些机会。
Well, you give your channel give your talent the opportunities to to gain knowledge and and wisdom, and the the sad thing is I don't know how many people did or or do it still.
你懂我意思吗？
You know?
除了你之外，你还知道有其他人这样做吗？
Was there anybody other than you that you know of that
还有另外两个人。
Two other people.
谁？
Who?
克劳迪奥·卡斯塔尼奥利，他本身就会说四五种语言，只是想上个进修课程；还有纳蒂·奈哈特。
Claudio Castagnoli, who speaks, I think, four or five languages already, and he just wanted to take, like, a brush up course, and Natty Neithart.
哇。
Wow.
是啊。
Yeah.
就这样。
That's it.
就这样。
That's it.
其他人就像
Somebody else is like
不会这么做的。
Not gonna do it.
工作量太大了。
Too much work.
是啊。
Yeah.
不了解文化背景这方面
What was the not knowing the culture aspect
是怎么回事？
of it?
老兄，我把自己置于了一个有点棘手的境地——我曾暗自下定决心，当我感觉语言流利时就要这么做。
Man, I got I got put in a bit of a hot spot with I I made a pact to myself when I was like, okay, I feel fluent.
我们会进行这些全球媒体巡演，而我正好参加了一次全球媒体巡演。
We would do these global press tours and I just happened to be on a global press tour.
我当时就想，你知道吗？
I'm like, you know what?
我要用普通话完成70%的媒体对话。
I'm gonna do 70% of my media in Mandarin, like in dialogue.
我得说，我做到了。
And I gotta say, I did it.
我去了那边，用中文演讲，人们纷纷摘下翻译耳机，感觉生活很美好，一切都很顺利。
Like I went over there, spoke, people were taking off the translator headphones, like life was good, everything was great.
在一天结束的时候，就像所有媒体巡演一样，你要做一堆提词器朗读。
At the very end of the day, as with all these press tours, you do like a bunch of prompter reads.
所以我正在为各地做提词器朗读，内容大概是：嘿，去这个地方看这部电影。
So I'm doing prompter reads for everywhere and it's like, hey, go this place and see this movie.
去那个地方看那部电影...哦不对，是我的错。
Go this place and see this movie and no, my bad.
我没有检查朗读内容，因为那是十小时工作日的尾声，你已经做了无数遍这种事。
I didn't check the reads because it's like an end of a ten hour day, you do a million of these things.
其中有一条内容是：嘿，台湾地区，来看这个...因为全部是用中文表述的，而观点中将台湾描述为一个国家。
And one of them said like, hey, Taiwan, see this, this, and and the the it was all in Mandarin, and the opinion described Taiwan as a country.
所以成为第一个看到这个的国家。
So be the first country to see this.
在那边，他们透过不同的视角看问题。
Now over there, they look through a different lens.
地缘政治就像浑浊的水域，当我意识到这点时——就像我刚说的那样——我离开了，大家都很平静，我完成了我的任务。
Like geopolitics are murky waters, And that's what when I learned of like, I just said it, left, everybody was cool, I did my thing.
就像我照着提词器念的时候，那简直是个Ron Burgundy式的尴尬时刻。
Like I read the prompt, it was like a Ron Burgundy moment.
就像'去你妈的，圣地亚哥'那种感觉。
Like, go fuck yourself, San Diego.
这简直是你所能说的最冒犯的话了。
It's like the most offensive thing you can say.
所以我就想，老兄，干得漂亮啊John。
So I'm like, man, you know, good job, John.
你完成了70%，人们也理解你在说什么。
You you said the you did 70% and people understood what you were talking about.
然后他们把那段话放出来，所有人都懵了：'你他妈刚才说了什么？'
And then they put that out and everybody was like, what the fuck did you just say?
我们这儿不这么办事。
We don't that's not how we do it over here.
而且，再次强调，我的个人体会是，那对我来说是个相当紧张的时刻。
And, again, just because, like, my takeaway, and it was a it was a pretty tense moment for me.
比如，我不得不向中国道歉，然后又在向中国道歉。
Like, I had to apologize to China, and then apologizing to China.
我把自己的祖国给惹毛了。
I pissed off my home country.
我是个爱国者，热爱美利坚合众国及其代表的一切，但似乎永远不够，没人满意，所有人都一团糟。
I'm a patriot, I love The United States Of America and everything it stands for, but like no one it was never enough, nobody was happy, everybody was fucked up.
这对我个人而言就像浑浊的水域，感觉很奇怪。
And it was it was it was like murky waters for me personally and it was weird.
我觉得我可能是唯一一个差点因为做作业而被封杀的人。
Like, I'm not I think I might have been the only guy almost to get canceled for doing his homework.
懂我意思吗？
You know?
我们试图学习并尝试做些事情，但关键收获是，我们可以从每个错误中吸取教训。
Like, we're trying to, like, learn, like, learn and and try to do something, but the cool takeaway, you know, we can learn from every mistake.
我的错误在于，懂语言并不意味着懂文化。
My mistake was just because you know the language doesn't mean you know the culture.
他们甚至称它为台湾吗？
Did they even refer to it as Taiwan?
我想他们称它为中国台北。
I think they referred to it as Chinese Taipei.
对吧？
Right?
老兄，我当时在文件里读到什么来着。
Man, what was in the I know what I read in in the thing.
哦，好吧。
Oh, okay.
所以再说一次，我对这个了解不够深入。
So that's again, I don't know enough depth to know that.
现在人们会说，天啊，你能不能用中文来说这个？
And now, like, people like, oh, man, can you can you speak Mandarin for this?
我就是不愿意这么做。
I just won't do it.
这是我拥有的技能，但这个技能将只属于我个人，因为我自己都不理解。
It's a skill that I have and it's but it's a skill that's gonna remain with me because it's I don't understand.
我缺乏足够的认知深度来准确称呼世界那个地区的那个地方，也没有做过充分研究。
I don't have the depth of field to know what to call that place in that region of the world, and I haven't done enough research.
我既没有足够的智慧，也不具备那种文化层面的流利度。
I don't have the wisdom, and I don't have, like, the the cultural fluency.
你懂我意思吗？
You know?
所以这是个很棒的教训。
So it was a cool lesson.
虽然很糟糕，因为我本意是想做好事，但这确实是个很棒的教训。
It it sucked because I thought I was just trying to do something good, but it was it was a cool lesson.
这件事真的有那么严重吗？
Was it was it really that big of a deal?
老兄，我当时正在拍摄《和平使者》第一季。
Man, I thought like, I I I was filming peacemaker season one.
当他们爆出所有这些事时，我直接去找了詹姆斯·古恩，对他说，嘿兄弟。
And when they came out with all of this stuff, I went directly to James Gunn and was like, hey, man.
如果你要解雇我，我能理解。
If you have to fire me, I I understand.
哇。
Wow.
然后它
And It
有那么严重啊。
was that serious.
是啊。
Yeah.
而且当时确实很严重，但其实不是
And it was But it wasn't
甚至不是你写的话
even words that you wrote.
是WWE的某个人写的吗？
Someone out the WWE wrote it?
不，不是那样
That doesn't no.
不是
No.
那是为了宣传我参演的电影
It was it was for the movie I was promoting.
对
Right.
所以是电影制作方写的内容
So the movie the people that made the movie wrote it.
所以我不知道。
So I don't know.
就像，当你做这些宣传巡演时，假设我在为华纳兄弟拍电影。
Like, when you do these press tours, let's say if I'm doing a movie for Warner Brothers, say.
就拿《和平使者》举例吧。
Let's use Peacemaker as an example.
我在进行全球《和平使者》巡演，我们会去中国或南美洲。
I'm doing a global Peacemaker tour and we go into China or we go into South America.
你会见到当地的公关人员，他们准备好所有你要做的事，安排你的行程，全程陪同，然后你就按部就班地去各个站点。
You meet like the PR person there and they have all the stuff you're supposed to do, and they curate your experience, and they hold your hand, you're like, okay, now we're gonna go to this station.
顺便说，他们其实只想让你做些简单问候。所以现在无论我去全球哪里，虽然很想感谢粉丝们的关注和支持，但我都会尽量避免说当地语言，因为我不了解文化差异。
By the way, they just want you to do some shout outs, and so anytime I go anywhere globally now, as much as I wanna thank fans for their attention and, you know, investing in the product, I really shy away from, like, speaking the language because I don't understand the cultural nuance.
懂我意思吗？
You know?
我就只想简单打个招呼，嘿，伙计。
I just I just wanna be like, yo, man.
感谢观看我们的作品，你们能从中获得乐趣让我很开心。
Thanks for watching what we do, and I love the fact that you're entertained.
但我想用我熟练掌握的语言与你们交流，因为你们每天都扎根于此，我可能说些本是善意的言辞，却无意中冒犯了你们。
But I wanna speak to you at a level that I understand that I'm fluent because your boots on the ground here every day, and I might say something that's a nice gesture, but completely fucking offend you.
那样就不好了。
And that's that's not good.
对谁都不好。
That's not good for anybody.
所以提词器是英文的，然后你翻译成中文吗？
So was the teleprompter in English and you translate
翻译成中文？
to Chinese?
不是。
No.
所有内容都是中文的。
Everything was in Mandarin.
在中文里，他们有那些汉字，对我来说几乎是不可能学会的。
And in in Chinese, they have the characters, which are virtually impossible for me to learn.
数量多到像是无穷无尽。
There's like an infinite number.
但他们也有所谓的拼音，就是用英语字母拼出发音的那种。
But they have they also have what's called pinyin, which is it's kinda spelled out in English with phonetics.
所以它有四个声调。
So it has the four tones.
好的。
Okay.
如果现在把拼音放在我面前，我绝对能读出来。
So if you were to put something in front of me in pinyin right now, I could definitely read it.
而且我拼音读得很熟练了。
And I got good at reading pinyin.
所以我就想，天啊，我可以用中文发这些信息，这样更多人会知道这部电影，更多人会认识我，更多人会了解摔跤，更多人会感到兴奋。
So I was like, man, I could I could send all these messages in Mandarin, and then more people will know about this movie, and more people will know about me, and more people will know about wrestling, and more people will be excited.
纸上谈兵看起来不错。
Looked good on paper.
只是我的执行力有点弱。
It just my follow through was a bit weak.
你懂吗？
You know?
就是
It's
嗯，这看起来甚至不像是你的错。
Well, it doesn't even seem like that was your fault.
对。
Right.
可能是公关助理负责这些繁琐的工作，比如输入不同语言和国家的版本，这很乏味。
It's probably a PR's assistant assistant that's type that's probably in charge of doing the grunt work of typing in all the different languages and the different countries, like it's tedious.
据我所知，我知道这期节目会让我更了解你们，但就我对你的了解，你喜欢从不同角度和视角看问题。
You from from what I know, I know I'm gonna learn a lot about you guys in this episode, but from what I know about you, you're you're into looking at looking things through different lenses and different perspectives.
也可能是有人想，我要搞定这个小子。
It also could have been somebody being like, I'm gonna get this kid.
哦。
Oh.
但问题是，我确实很感激你说这不是你的错。
But here's the thing, I I do appreciate you saying like, it's not your fault.
那不是真的。
That's not true.
这是我的错。
It was my fault.
我认为这时候我可以开始反思：我从这件事中学到了什么？
And I think that's when I can start to work on like, well, what did I learn from this?
我可以轻易地责怪公关或助理。
And I could easily blame a PR, an assistant.
我可以说有人针对我，诸如此类的话。
I could say somebody had a target on my back, all that stuff.
我搞砸了。
I fucked up.
你怀疑可能是有人设局害你吗？
Did you suspect that somebody might have set you up?
没有。
No.
可你这么说就像真有这种可能似的。
Well, you're saying it like it's a possibility.
老兄，事发当时各种猜测都冒出来了，关键是这样的。
Well, man, when it happened, every every theory came like, here's the thing.
世界不是围着我转的，但我的小世界是。
The world doesn't revolve around me, but my little world.
所有人都觉得是他们搞砸了。
Everybody was like, they fucked up.
他们是故意这么做的。
They did this on purpose.
我当时就想，首先，他们是谁？
I was like, well, first of all, who's they?
所以我能把这些可能性都排除掉。
So I was able to kind of eliminate all that.
当我意识到自己还能继续工作时，我真的惹恼了很多人。
And once I realized I could still go on working, I I really made a lot of people angry.
为此，我表示道歉。
And for that, then I'm sorry.
就是，我又只是尝试
Like, again, I was just trying
光说台湾是个国家这点就很疯狂。
That's crazy just by saying that Taiwan's a country.
不过是用中文说的。
In in Chinese though.
对吧。
Right.
你知道，那些本来就是很模糊不清的领域。
You know, like, those are murky waters to begin with.
是啊。
Yeah.
你知道，我甚至对美国政策都不完全了解。
You know, like, I I'm not even thoroughly fluent on The US policy.
我觉得那就像某种领土模糊性之类的玩意儿。
I think it's like like a territorial ambiguity or some shit like that.
这太奇怪了，而且非常敏感。
Like, it's it's so weird, and it's it's so fragile.
我涉足了本不该趟的浑水。
And I I I got into some water I shouldn't have been swimming in.
但那是我自己的问题。
But that's that's on me.
这是我的错，责任在我。
It's not it's it was my fault.
而且我认为对我来说，承担这个责任很重要，就像，嘿。
And and I think that's important for me to bear the burden of that and be like, yo.
我该如何纠正方向？
What how can I course correct?
我学到了什么？
What did I learn?
我真正、真诚地需要向谁道歉，因为冒犯了他们？
Who do I really really genuinely have to apologize for offending?
最让人难以接受的是，当国内的人感到愤怒时。
The the biggest thing that was a kick to the nuts is when, like, people stateside got pissed off.
因为你道歉了？
Because you apologized?
是的。
Yes.
用中文。
In in Chinese.
我理解这一点。
And and I understand it.
我是说，就像屈服于这种要求，天哪。
I mean, like bowing down to the demand of this that gosh.
我这一手玩得真烂。
What a what a shitty move by me.
我本该先深呼吸冷静一下。
Like, I just I should have taken a breath.
再问一次，我学到了什么？
Again, what did I learn?
不要冲动行事。
Don't be reactive.
嗯。
Mhmm.
先深呼吸。
Take a breath.
弄清楚发生了什么。
Find out what's going on.
找出最佳行动方案。
Find out the best path of action.
也许等几天再说。
Maybe give it a few days.
也许稍等片刻。
Maybe give it a hot second.
嗯。
Mhmm.
然后再继续前进。
And then move forward.
但我当时立刻就觉得，哦，他们生气了。
But, immediately, I was like, oh, they're mad.
你想让我们做这个吗？
You want us to do this?
好的。
Fine.
没问题。
No problem.
我马上解决。
I'll fix it right now.
天啊，我不仅没试着修补船上的洞，还把泰坦尼克号给弄沉了。
Man, that not only did I not try to fix the hole in the boat, I sunk the Titanic.
所以确实如此，但这也是一次学习经历。
So it was but, again, it was a learning experience.
嗯，这说明你品格高尚，没有责怪别人，而我总是责怪所有人。
Well, it speaks to your character that you don't blame anybody else because I blame everybody else.
我就想，这他妈是谁写的？
I'm like, who fucking wrote that?
你难道不知道自己在说什么，或者你在让我说什么吗？
Don't you don't you know what you're saying or what you're making me say?
你们为节目准备的那份发布稿。
The the release you guys have for the show.
我我读过了。
I I read it.
而你可能是唯一的那个人。
And you're You might be the only person.
所以那是...不管是谁递给我的，那就是他们说的话。
So that was that was whoever handed it to me, that was what they said.
我觉得你可能是唯一真正读过它的人。
Like, I think you might be the only person that's ever read it.
是啊。
Yeah.
老兄，如果你要对我随意发挥，至少得让我能看懂你在写什么，对吧。
Man, if if if you're gonna if you're gonna take liberties with me, at least I wanna be able to read that you Right.
你懂我意思吗？
You know what I'm saying?
我不能说自己在这方面做得很完美，但是，我被递了一份免责声明。
And I I can't say I'm perfect with doing that, but, like, I was handed a release.
我当时就想，天啊。
I'm like, oh, man.
我能稍微看一下这个吗？哦，这上面写的是我想的那样吗？
Can I just glance this over for a hot oh, this says what I think it says?
好吧。
Okay.
我们开始吧。
Let's go.
特朗普甚至都没读过它。
Trump didn't even read it.
只是发推文自说自话？
Just Tweets their own?
是啊。
Yeah.
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
不。
No.
你读了它很聪明。
It's very smart of you to read it.
你知道吗？
You know?
你...谁知道呢？
You who who knows?
你懂吗？
You know?
谁知道呢？
Who knows?
所以这个
So this
托尼，这是...现在这是完整的三连胜了吗？
is Tony, is this is this the full trifecta now?
就好像你现在已经把你所有的英雄都请到这个播客上了。
It's like if you've gotten all of your heroes on this podcast now.
职业摔角界还有几位我们可以邀请的。
There's a couple more we can knock off out of the pro wrestling world.
还有几位。
There's a couple more.
托德，如果你不介意的话，我想聊聊职业摔角界的英雄人物。
Todd, let's if if you don't mind, if I can indulge, talk pro wrestling heroes.
我们还需要邀请谁？
Who do who do we need to knock off?
我们需要
Who do we to
邀请谁？
get in?
我是说，实际上，这是个极其狡猾的
I mean, in all reality, and it's a diabolical diabolical
因为，老兄，他甚至不能邀请——其实你可以邀请任何你想请的人来这儿。
because, man, he can he can't even invite he you can't you can invite anyone you want in here.
你只需要给他一份愿望清单就行。
You just kinda gotta give him the wish list.
我是说，毫无疑问你得从第一名开始，文斯·麦克马洪，就是这个黑帮作风的始作俑者，还把这种风气传播开来。
I mean, you gotta you gotta start with the number one without a doubt, Vince McMahon, who started this gangster shit and spread it around.
我绝对会选他，老兄。
I would definitely have him, man.
有点
A little
天啊，我 是啊。
Man, I Yeah.
他会是个很棒的选择。
He would be great.
没错。
Yes.
无论你有什么魔力，你确实很有影响力
I whatever magic you have out there and you have a lot of gravity
你觉得他会有兴趣参与吗？
Do you think he'd be interested in doing it?
你在开玩笑吗？
Are you kidding me?
我觉得他会很喜欢的。
I think he would love it.
真的吗？
Really?
我觉得他会喜欢的。
I think he would love it.
我我不知道什么时候是合适的时机，但是伙计，别别错过那个机会至少至少向宇宙发出这个邀请。
I I don't know when the right time is, but, man, don't don't miss out on that op at least at least send it out to the universe.
是啊。
Yeah.
好吧，文斯，如果你在听的话，我绝对会这么做。
Well, I I would definitely Vince, if you're listening.
文斯，如果你在听的话。
Vince, if you're listening.
我们开始吧。
Let's go.
我认为这次经历对你来说会非常棒。
I think this would be a great I think this experience would be a great one for you.
他还参与其中吗？
Is he still involved?
他退出了吗？
Is he out?
他加入了吗？
Is he in?
他退出了。
He's out.
他出局了。
He's out.
他彻底出局了。
He's out totally.
是的。
Yep.
看起来他会暂时离开一阵子，然后某些事情又会让他回来。不。
It seems like he's the guy that'll be out for a little while, and then something will happen to bring him back No.
我...不？
I well No?
嗯，我不知道。
Well I don't know.
再说一次，这就是我们之前讨论的那种情况，对。
Again, that's that's way we were talking about, like Yeah.
为什么你的最后一场活动在这个地方？
Why is your last event in this place?
老兄，因为活动不是我选的。
I'm like, man, because I don't choose the events.
这些东西都远超出我的掌控，但我知道他现在出局了。
Like, I don't all that stuff is so far above me, but I know now he's out.
在我看来，我愿意相信时间能治愈一切，我也相信宽恕的力量。
In my eyes, I I'd like to think that, like, time heals everything, and I believe in forgiveness.
而且，我也倾向于综观整体表现，但我同时也注意到那里有很多脆弱的环节。
And, I also believe in, like, looking at the body of work, but I also I also noticed a lot of fragile stuff going on there.
我不知道。
I don't know.
我不知道，老兄。
I don't know, man.
我不知道。
I don't know.
是啊。
Yeah.
这是个热门话题。
It's a hot subject.
这可能会让我们再次陷入另一个中国台北事件。
It it could get us into another Chinese Taipei incident.
不，好吧。
Just Well, no.
不。
No.
老兄，我再次强调，我已经学会对自己的言论更加负责了。是的。
I man, I'm I'm again, I've learned to become a little bit more accountable for for what I say and Yeah.
仅仅因为我对某人持有某种看法，并不意味着他们可以不对自己的行为负责。
Just how just because I feel a certain way about a person doesn't exonerate them from being accountable for their actions.
没错。
Right.
仅仅因为他确实开始所谓的'黑帮作风'
And just because he did start quote unquote all this gangster shit
嗯
Mhmm.
这并不意味着他不需要为自己的行为负责。
That doesn't that doesn't mean he doesn't need to be accountable for his actions.
对
Right.
所以我们要先明确这意味着什么，然后再看看能否继续前进，让他重新融入团队，还是维持现状。
So let's let's figure out what that means and then figure out if we can if we can move forward and and and bring that back in the fold or if if it stays the way it is.
托尼，你怎么看？
What do you think, Tony?
你觉得他会回来吗？
Think he's coming back?
我觉得他会来这里的。
I think he would come here.
是的
Yeah.
我也认为他会来这里。
I think he would come here too.
而且我觉得，你知道，他是有史以来最有趣的人物之一。
And I think he you know, that's one of the more entertaining people of all time.
他创造了整个宇宙。
He created the entire universe.
你得记住，霍根之所以是霍根，都是因为他。
You gotta remember, Hogan's Hogan because of him.
看到这一幕我
Seeing a scene I
我是说，都是因为他。
mean, because of him.
是啊。
Yeah.
每一个冷石时刻，他都会说，这听起来不错。
Every single stone cold, he's like, that sounds good.
是啊。
Yeah.
继续下去。
Keep it going.
我们会做玻璃碎裂的效果，他们会给你扔啤酒。
We'll do the glass breaks thing, they'll throw you beers.
我喜欢这样。
I like it.
下周我们再搞一次。
Let's do it again next week.
所以我们想到的一切
So everything that we think
当他坐在这里时，你得模仿那个样子。
When he sits here, you gotta do that impression.
没错。
Yeah.
是啊。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
冷石是另一个还没上过节目的人。
Stone Cold's another one that hasn't been on.
史蒂夫会很棒的。
Steve would be great.
我觉得你会很喜欢史蒂夫。
I think you you you would dig Steve.
哦，当然。
Oh, yeah.
我确定。
I'm sure.
对。
Yeah.
他也住在这附近，不是吗？
He lives out here too, doesn't he?
是的。
Yep.
他
Does
吗？
he?
呃，其实不是。
Well, actually, no.
他不是
Doesn't he
有一个
have a
牧场在这边吗？
ranch out here?
我想他在某个地方确实有。
I think he does somewhere.
确实有。
Does.
对。
Yeah.
但我觉得他现在主要住在别的地方，新墨西哥州或亚利桑那州。
But I think he's based out of somewhere else now, New Mexico or Arizona.
他这个人，怎么说呢，挺酷又有点隐居的感觉。
He's on the he, like, he's, like, kind of cool and reclusive.
他平时不怎么活跃。
He, like, doesn't really do a lot.
他真的很神奇。
He it's amazing.
他会是个不错的选择，而且我敢保证他愿意参与。
He would be a good get, and I I'm pretty I guarantee he would do it.
是啊。
Yeah.
史蒂夫，我知道你在看。
Steve, if you're I know you're watching.
来吧。
Come on.
来吧。
Come on.
快进来吧。
Come on in.
咱们聊聊摔角。
Let's talk let's talk some wrestling.
那个人啊。
The man.
我是说，所有人都把他列入名人堂级别的。
I mean, everyone has him on the, you know, the Mount Rushmore.
现在是谁在运营？是文斯·麦克马洪的女婿。
H h h who runs it now, the son-in-law of Vince McMahon.
对。
Yeah.
我是说，他现在掌管整个公司。
I mean, he runs the entire thing.
我是说，你想知道这些高层问题的答案。
I mean, you want you want answers to those high level questions.
没错。
Yeah.
他就是你要找的人。
There's your guy.
对。
Yeah.
你得想办法接触这个人。
That's the guy you need to get into.
你今天问的很多问题，我可能会说，那已经超出我的职权范围了。
A lot of the stuff you'll probably you probably asked today, I'd be like, that's way above my pay grade.
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好吧，如果你不了解这段历史，托尼曾经在真正成名前收到过WWE的工作邀约。
Well, you know, if you don't know the history, Tony at one point in time was offered a job with the WWE before he really made it.
不可能吧。
No way.
真的。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
是啊。
Yeah.
他收到过WWE的编剧邀约，因为托尼是个超级职业摔角迷。
He was offered a job to write for the WWE because, you know, Tony was a giant pro wrestling fan.
而且那时候他已经有Netflix专场了，所以作为喜剧演员已经小有名气。
And, you know, he'd already had a Netflix special, so he was known as a comic.
在那之前。
Before that.
是在Netflix专场之前吗？
Was it before the Netflix special?
对。
Yeah.
第一个专场？
The first one?
你自己发行的那个专场？
The one that you released yourself?
是的。
Yeah.
真的吗？
Really?
是的。
Yeah.
那时我才开始做单口喜剧没几年，每周七天几乎都在喜剧俱乐部表演。
It was only a couple years into me doing stand up, like, seven nights a week at the comedy store all the time.
不知怎么的，有人突然对我说，嘿。
And somehow, I ended up someone's like, hey.
我有个朋友在WWE，如果你想和他们见面聊聊的话。
I have a friend in WWE if you wanna have a meeting with them and just talk.
我直接带着一堆点子去了。
And I went in with straight up ideas.
这个那个，比如送葬者的兄弟又回来了，这样那样的点子来回讨论。
This, that, the Undertaker's brother comes back again, this, that, the next, like everything back and forth.
我甚至一个点子都记不起来了
I can't even remember any of them.
已经过去太久了
It's been so long.
但我带着全套方案去的
But I went in with the whole thing.
那家伙当时就懵了：你从哪搞来这些？啥？
This guy's like, where the hell did you like, what?
哦，这也太疯狂了
Oh, this is crazy.
你就这样直接准备了这些？
You just, like, did this?
我说：对啊
I'm like, yeah.
几天前才得知我们要见面谈
Found out a couple days ago we were gonna talk.
所以，嗯。
So but, yeah.
他们确实提供了机会，但我得搬到康涅狄格州，每晚坐火车去纽约做单口喜剧，那会让人精疲力尽。
They offered it, but I would have had to move to Connecticut and take a train to New York every night to go do stand up, and that would have just been exhausting.
我听说的所有消息都因为已故的伟大帕特里斯·奥尼尔曾为WWE写过一段时间剧本。
Everything I heard because Patrice O'Neil, the late great Patrice O'Neil, wrote for WWE for a while.
真的吗？
Did he really?
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
大概写了几年吧，我想。
For like a couple of years, I think.
他只是给他们写台词吗？
What did he just wrote lines for them?
比如，他具体负责什么工作？
Like, what did he do?
全套工作都得干。
The whole shebang.
当你成为WWE编剧时，他们要求你写剧本。
When you're a WWE writer, they they make you write.
这根本不是什么轻松的工作。
It's not like a cute job at all.
确实不轻松。
No.
每周都有大量电视节目或内容产出。
There's a lot of there's a lot of television or there's a lot of content every week.
没错。
Yeah.
现在他们每周有三档固定节目。
Right now, think they got they have three weekly shows.
嗯
Mhmm.
所以每周大概20期节目，我记得其中一档要恢复成三小时时长，是的。
So that's 20 I think one of them is going back to three hours Yep.
16期
16.
差不多有50个电视节目片段，对。
It's like it's like 50 segments of TV Yeah.
每周都有。
Every week.
是啊。
Yeah.
但我记得你当时谈到这事。
But I remember when you were talking about it.
没错。
Yeah.
当你提到可能要做这件事时，我当时就想
When you're talking about potentially doing it, I was like
是啊。
Yeah.
确实挺棘手的。
It was tricky.
我当时就想，老兄，你绝对不想住在康涅狄格州。
And I was like, dude, you do not wanna live in Connecticut.
确实不想。
No.
这才是关键问题。
That's the main thing.
要是换作康涅狄格州以外的任何地方，可能还更说得通些。
If it was anywhere else other than Connecticut, it kinda may would have made more sense.
如果是在纽约市的话，那根本不用犹豫。
If it was in New York City, it would have been a no brainer.
如果是在洛杉矶，那绝对没问题。
If it was in LA, definitely.
但是，快进一下。
But, like, fast forward.
现在你越来越深入参与了。
Now you're you're more and more involved.
是的。
Yes.
嗯，这事挺疯狂的。
Well, this is the crazy thing.
就像我们以前在旧时光里聊过的那样。
Like, we had talked, like, during the the old days.
我们常在休息室里聊天。
Like, we would talk in the green room.
我当时就说，那会是你最理想的工作。
I'd be like, that would be your ultimate dream job.
是啊。
Yeah.
就像，作为一名喜剧演员取得成功，同时又能以某种方式参与UFC，或者说抱歉，是在WWE中以我参与UFC的方式参与，非常相似。
Like, to make it as a comedian and somehow be involved in the UFC the way I or, excuse me, in WWE the way I'm involved in the UFC, like, very similar.
没错。
Yeah.
而且你看。
It's And look.
疯狂。
Crazy.
太疯狂了。
It's insane.
我明晚要去。
I'm going tomorrow night.
我要坐在我家乡体育馆的前排。
I'm gonna be in the front row at the arena in my hometown.
他们明晚会在这里吗？
Are they here tomorrow night?
哦，天哪。
Oh, man.
你在逗我吗？
Are you messing with me?
你要打断吗？你的音乐要开始了吗？
Are you gonna cut is your music gonna hit?
你会突然出现的。
You're gonna pop out.
我还剩一个。
I'm I got one more left.
顺便说，他们就是这么做的。
This is what they do, by the way.
哦，是吗？
Oh, yeah?
哦，是啊。
Oh, yeah.
这就是安德他们甚至不知道自己会来城里。
This is what And then didn't even know they were gonna be in town.
他说得对。
He's correct.
有很多...你在捉弄人。
There's a lot of there's you mess with people.
你说得对。
You're right.
但像我这样的人会直截了当告诉你：我不会去那儿，也确实不会到场。
But then somebody like me will actually shoot you straight and be like, I'm not gonna be there, and I won't be there.
然后你就会想：哦，现在我是在为人们互相捉弄积累资本。
And you'll be like, oh, now I'm just I'm building the equity for people to mess with people.
正是如此。
Exactly.
我在那边发放2020次重新击球的机会。
I'm giving twenty twenty mulligans out there.
明天。
Tomorrow.
永不。
Never.
音乐播放。
Music plays.
一个机会。
A chance.
正是如此。
Exactly.
我听到一个很棒的故事。
I heard a great story.
你可能会喜欢这个。
You'll probably love this.
你可能听过这个故事，送葬者和他妻子以及播客搭档一起去了摔角狂热大赛。
You might even know this story, but the Undertaker, his wife, and his podcast cohost went to WrestleMania.
他们坐在豪华包厢里。
They're up in a fancy suite.
这是哪一届来着？
This was which one was it?
巨石强森那届？
The Rock?
我是说她的亮相？
I mean, her appearance?
你是不是...对。
Did you yes.
你当时在场。
You were there.
对吧？
Right?
那是三年前摔角狂热大赛上那个巨大的终场，就是那种砰砰砰砰的场面。
That's that huge finish at WrestleMania like three years ago where it was just boom, boom, boom, boom.
然后所有这些传奇人物都在这个宏大的终场中出场。
And all these legends were coming out in this huge finish.
他们甚至都无法跟上节奏。
Just like they they can't even like follow it.
这就是摔角狂热大赛的终极终场。
The ultimate climax of a WrestleMania.
然后一名摔角手出场，打断了这场重要的主赛事，接着又一名，然后又一名。
And one wrestler comes out, interrupts this huge main event, then another one, then another one.
总之，送葬者、他的妻子和播客搭档当时在包厢里。
Anyway, the Undertaker, his wife, and his podcast cohost were up in the suite.
送葬者说：'我去趟洗手间'。
Undertaker goes, I'm gonna go use the restroom.
他们想：'他已经离开好一会儿了'。
They're like, he's been gone a while.
灯光熄灭，丧钟敲响。
The lights go out, the bell tolls.
他们正在包厢里观看。
They're watching from the suite.
他已经离开了大概十分钟，二十分钟。
He's been gone for, like, ten minutes, twenty minutes.
他迅速换了装，然后现在他
He went and changed real quick, and then now he's
以送葬者的身份出场了。
Came out as the Undertaker.
没错。
Yeah.
以送葬者的身份出场了。
Came out as the Undertaker.
包厢里的人都在惊呼：天啊。
They're in the suite like, oh my god.
是送葬者。
It's the Undertaker.
他们没告诉任何人。
Like, they don't tell anybody.
太老派太棒了，他们把秘密守得严严实实，连最亲近的人、他妻子都不知道。
It's so old school and awesome that they keep secrets so locked up that their own loved ones, his wife didn't even know.
这太搞笑了。
That's hilarious.
这也太疯狂了。
That is so crazy.
能现场给观众惊喜真的很有趣。
It's it's fun to be able to surprise a live audience.
噢，没错。
Oh, yeah.
噢，确实。
Oh, yeah.
我是说，这肯定是其中很重要的一部分。
I mean, it's gotta be a big part of it.
你是怎么进入职业摔跤这一行的？
How did you get involved in pro wrestling?
你小时候是摔跤迷吗？
Were you were you a fan as a kid?
然后我
And then I
当然是。
sure was.
我觉得我们有相似的经历，伙计，我小时候可是个超级摔跤迷。
I I think we have the same gravity of, like, man, I I was a super fan as kid.
但后来霍根去了WCW后，我承认就有点脱粉了。
But then I fell out of it admittedly kinda when Hogan went to WCW.
所以，我一度很迷摔跤，后来就不怎么关注了。
So like, I was into wrestling and then I wasn't.
然后我开始接触体育之类的。
Then I got into sports or whatever.
后来我和其他人一样又重新迷上了摔角。
And then I got back into wrestling when everyone else did.
当冷石史蒂夫·奥斯汀和巨石强森走红，态度时代来临的时候。
When like Stone Cold Steve Austin became big, The Rock became big, The Attitude Era hit.
我当时在威尼斯Gold's Gym做着毫无前途的工作，对人生方向一片迷茫。
And I was just working a dead end job over at Gold's Gym Venice and like didn't know what I wanted to do with my life.
你那时多大？
How old were you?
21岁。
21.
哇。
Wow.
21岁。
21.
我搬到加州不是为了出名什么的。
I'd moved out to to California not to be famous or anything.
我的学位是肯尼西（Kenisse）专业的。
My degree was in Kenisse.
我当时想，那里是99年到2000年间的健身界中心。
And I wanted to like, that was the center of the fitness universe in ninety nine, two thousand.
所有健身器材制造商都在那里。
So like all equipment manufacturers were there.
我就想，哥们儿，我要不去汉默力量（Hammer Strength）或赛百斯（Cybex）找个工作，或者去黄金健身（Golds），把那张文凭挂墙上，找个高薪工作。
I'm like, man, I'll go get a job with hammer strength or a Cybex or like maybe golds or like put that piece of paper on the wall to to like get a good paying job.
结果没成。
It did not work.
所以我最后按顺序干了前台、打扫厕所、卖蛋白棒这些活儿，所以千万别买蛋白棒。
So I ended up like front desk, cleaning toilets, selling protein bars in that order, so don't ever buy a protein bar.
开个玩笑啦。
I'm just kidding.
我开玩笑的。
I'm just kidding.
不过说真的。
But no.
在那里我差不多是个万事通。
Was kinda like a jack of all trades over there.
还有我的朋友克里斯·贝尔和马克·贝尔。
And a a friend of mine, Chris Bell and Mark Bell.
哦，我认识他们。
Oh, I know those guys.
是啊。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
他们当时就说：'老兄，你整天都在聊WWF（世界摔角娱乐）。'
They literally were like, dude, you talk about WWF all the time.
你知道我们在橙县训练，那时候克里斯·贝尔正在为这个推广活动写东西。
You know we train down in Orange County, and at that time, Chris Bell was kinda like writing for this promotion.
他们说，你想试试吗？
They're like, would you wanna do it?
而我，老兄，要不是他们无意中说了句'哟，我们哇'，这事根本成不了。
And I man, I that doesn't happen without them accidentally saying, like, yo, we Wow.
我们训练就是为了干这个。
We train to do this.
所以他的纪录片简直屌爆了。
So I His documentaries are fucking incredible.
《更大、更强、更快》，还有另一部关于药丸的。
Bigger, Stronger, Faster, and then the other one, the pill one.
那部叫什么来着？
What was that one called?
《神奇药丸》？
Magic pill?
不是。
No.
克里斯发布的那部关于成瘾的纪录片叫什么来着？
What was the one the the addiction one, that Chris released?
但是，《更大、更强、更快》真是一部超棒的纪录片。
But, Bigger, Stronger, Faster is such a fucking great documentary.
贝尔一家，我和他们做朋友已经很久了。
The Bell family, I've been I've been friends with them for a long time.
都是好人。
Great guys.
是啊。
Yeah.
那部纪录片简直揭开了类固醇使用的真相。
That that documentary, like, blew the lid off of, like, the reality of steroids.
《处方药暴徒》。
Prescription thugs.
处方药暴徒。
Prescription thugs.
很棒的一部。
Great one.
是啊。
Yeah.
疯狂的是他在拍摄期间自己也染上了药瘾，因为他在制作过程中做了手术，结果在拍这部关于人们药物成瘾的纪录片时自己却对药物上瘾了。
Crazy thing is he got addicted to pills while he was doing that because he had surgery while he was doing that and got addicted to pills while he's making a fucking documentary on people being addicted to pills.
哇。
Wow.
这就是药片的可怕之处。
That's how potent pills are.
一个拍成瘾纪录片的人，他原本只是想着'我吃这些是因为做了髋关节手术，疼得要命'，结果就上钩了。
A guy making a documentary about addiction, he just thinks, well, I'm just taking these because I got hip surgery, and I'm in in fucking agony, and then gets hooked.
哦，没错。
Oh, yeah.
就像，那真是太疯狂了。
Like, that's how crazy it is.
是啊。
Yeah.
它们药效很强。
They're strong.
对。
Yeah.
我可以想象。
I would imagine.
你有遇到过问题吗？
Did you ever have an issue?
没有。
No.
没有。
No.
事实上，我的颈部做过融合手术，右胸肌完全撕裂后又重新接上，两侧三头肌都重新接合过，两侧三头肌都做过关节镜手术，鼻子也复位过。
As a matter of fact, I've I've had fusion in my neck, right pec completely detached, reattached, both triceps reattached, both triceps scoped, nose relocated.
我大概做过10次矫正手术。
I'm in like 10 physical surgeries where they gotta go and correct something.
从未吃过一片止痛药。
Never taken one pain pill.
哇。
Wow.
我家里最底层抽屉装满各种处方药。
I have all the prescriptions in the bottom drawer of my house filled.
奇怪的是每个医疗机构的难题都是疼痛管理。
And it's weird because at every facility the hill they climb is pain management.
从麻醉中醒来时，你会感觉灰暗而模糊。
You wake up from anesthesia, you're like gray and murky.
而且我在许多不同的医疗机构做过多次手术。
And I've been in a bunch of surgeries at a bunch of different facilities.
流程总是千篇一律。
The protocol's always the same.
你需要止痛药吗？
Do you want something for the pain?
来，我们必须确保你带着这个，因为你目前没感到疼痛。
Here, we gotta make sure you take this with you because you're not in any pain.
是啊。
Yeah.
我理解，因为如果你离开时感觉良好，可能是肾上腺素的作用，谁知道呢。
Like, I I understand because you if you leave, if you're feeling okay, maybe you're high off adrenaline, I don't know.
然后手术的后劲就来了，天哪。
And then the operation sets in of like, holy fuck.
这简直是十级疼痛。
This is a 10 out of 10.
我受不了了，我需要止痛药。
I can't I need something.
我理解。
I get that.
但我想，从摔倒和身体多处受伤的经历中，我了解自己的疼痛阈值。
But I I guess from falling down and hurting my body a lot, like, know my pain threshold.
是啊。
Yeah.
而最糟糕的部分可能是要把整个包扎重新装上然后再固定好。
And when I the the worst one was probably the putting the whole pack back on and then attaching it.
但当我醒来时，我还能玩压力球，而且一颗药都没吃。
But when I woke up, I was able to, like, mess around with a stress ball, and I never took one pill.
这太神奇了。
That's amazing.
而且我还有整瓶的药，标签上写着2008年，那是我第一次做手术的时候。
And I I still have the the full bottles of, summer labeled 2,008 is when I had my first surgery.
它们都原封不动地放在那里。
And they're just all there.
现在有很多听众正在收听
There's a lot of people listening right now going on.
你把他们都数过了吗？
You count them all?
是啊
Yeah.
我在想
I wonder
如果它们还没过期的话。
if they're still good.
但要弄清楚约翰·塞纳对它们的态度。
But Find out The find out what John Cena's towards them.
是啊。
Yeah.
这很奇怪，因为医护人员简直不敢相信。
It was weird because the the medical staff couldn't couldn't believe it.
他们就说，你什么都不想要。
Like, they're like, you don't want anything.
不。
No.
因为，老兄，我知道自己会怎样。
Because, man, it's a I know how I am with this.
是啊，这他妈是条危险的下坡路。
It's, yeah, it's a fucking slippery road.
我会一直沉迷于阿片类药物。
And I would just I'd be high on opiates opiates all the time.
我记得第一次膝盖手术是在93或94年，做了前交叉韧带重建，医生给我开了维柯丁。
I got my first knee surgery, I think, in '93 or '94, and they gave me I got an ACL reconstruction, and they gave me Vicodin, I think.
很确定就是维柯丁。
Pretty sure it was Vicodin.
有天我吃了一片，感觉整个人都变蠢了。
I took one one day, and I felt so stupid.
我躺在沙发上看电视，感觉脑子特别迟钝，但膝盖还是疼。
I was lying in on lying on my couch watching TV, and I felt so dumb, and my knee still hurt.
你知道吗？
You know?
那药只是让我暂时忘了膝盖疼，但我想我不能这么迟钝下去。
It was just like it was distracting me from the fact that my knee hurt, but I'm like, I can't be this dumb.
我本来就已经够笨的了。
I'm dumb enough as it is.
我不能靠吃药让自己变得更蠢。
I can't add to my dumbness with pills.
是啊。
Yeah.
就像，我早就预见到了。
Like, I just saw it coming.
你懂吗？
You know?
而且，我认识不少有药瘾问题的人。
And also, I knew a bunch of guys who had pill problems.
结果我把药卖给了一个专门倒卖药品的朋友。
I wound up selling my pills to a friend of mine that would sell pills.
天啊。
Gosh.
我我本该采纳你的主意的。
I I should have taken your idea.
本来可以赚点钱的。
Could've made some Yeah.
本来可以赚点钱的。
Could've made some cash.
我只赚了几百美元左右。
I only made, like, a couple $100 or something.
我都不记得了。
I don't even remember.
那是在九十年代，但我只记得那一粒药。
It was, in the nineties, but but I remember just that one pill.
从那以后每次手术，医生都会给我开药，但我从没服用过。
And so then every surgery I've had ever since then, they always offered me stuff, but I never took anything.
2003年我另一条前交叉韧带重建时，什么药都没吃。
I got my other ACL reconstructed in 2003, never took anything.
2008年我做了鼻部矫正手术，鼻中隔偏曲重建。
I got in my nose fixed, and it's like 2008, I got my nose reconstructed, deviated septum.
是啊。
Yeah.
那个医生坚持给我开了两剂止痛药处方。
The guy was insisting that I he gave me two prescriptions for pain medicine.
我当时就说，我什么药都不要。
And I was like, I don't want anything.
我还问，疼痛会比现在更严重吗？
I was like, is it gonna get worse than this?
他说，可能会更疼。
He's like, it could get.
我说，现在感觉没什么。
I go, right now, it feels like nothing.
是啊。
Yeah.
但如果你像我一样被揍过太多次，身体已经习惯疼痛了。
It's like but if you've been, again, like you, you've been beaten up so many times, your body you're so used to just being in pain.
我觉得对有些人来说，光是想到疼痛就让他们焦虑到想先吃药。
And I think for some people, just the the daunting anxiety of pain itself is like they just want a pill before they even realize, like, I could kinda just yeah.
这确实很难受，但不会永远难受。
It sucks, but it's not gonna suck forever.
伤口会愈合的。
It's gonna heal.
所以我们就忍着痛躺这儿吧。
So let's just deal with the suck and just lay here.
敷点冰块什么的，放松一下。
Put some ice on it or whatever and just relax.
与此同时，这有点像你身体自然的表达方式，像是在说，好吧，也许可以再稍微加把劲。
And along with that, it's kind of like your your body's natural way of saying, like, okay, maybe push a little bit more.
在物理治疗中尝试增加几度的活动范围。
Try to get a few more degrees of range of motion in physical therapy.
嗯哼。
Uh-huh.
如果那些感觉被麻痹了，对吧。
If if those senses are numbed Right.
就像被关闭了一样
And like shut off
对。
Right.
首先，你会感觉就像我什么都不想做。
First of all, you you do feel just like I don't wanna do anything.
所以你不会工作。
So you won't work.
在很多情况下，你不会为了康复而去做那些让你生病的工作。
In many cases, you won't work to do the work to get better to get you sick.
或者你只是麻木了。
Or You're just numb.
你不知道这些信息。
You don't know the messaging.
你无法倾听自己的身体。
You can't listen to your body.
是的。
Yeah.
比如，如果真的非常非常疼痛，也许你的身体在试图告诉你什么。
Like, if it's really, really in pain, maybe it's maybe your body's trying to tell you something.
我不知道。
I don't know.
假设人们对疼痛的感受不同。
Assume that people feel pain differently.
我是说，我只是想象。
I mean, I just would imagine.
就像，就像人们对辣酱的感受不同。
Like, like, people feel hot sauce differently.
比如有些人一点辣都吃不了。
Like, some people, they can't have any spice.
有些人他妈能吃死神辣椒都没事。
Some people fucking can have, like, you know, death peppers, and they're fine.
好吧。
So alright.
我会把这个问题抛给大家。
I'll throw that out to the group.
疼痛是个人体验吗？
Is pain a personal experience?
我是说，我绝对没你们那么坚强。
I mean There's no way I'm as tough as you guys.
所以它必须
So It has to
是。
be.
但我觉得在其他维度可能会坚强得多。
But I think in other dimensions, might be way tougher.
我不知道。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I don't know.
也许我
Maybe I
我想有些事情你不知道，托尼。
think I think there's something You don't know, Tony.
我无法想象那个维度。
I can't imagine the dimension.
前几天我去参观了一个消防站，我顺着消防杆滑下来时还喊着'哇'。
I went and visited a firehouse the other day, and I was going down the pole going, wee.
你们肯定不会这么做的。
Like, you guys wouldn't do that.
我就会这么做。
I would do that.
所以在那方面，你比我更坚强
So so in that in that aspect, you're tougher than
我。
me.
是啊。
Yeah.
你能承受嘲笑，我们也能轻松应对嘲笑。
You could take ridicule, we could take ridicule really easily.
但我
But I
我不知道别人的感受是怎样的。
I don't know how what it feels like for other people.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I'm saying?
我是说，我原以为每个人的感受都一样。
I mean, I would assume that everybody feels the same.
但你知道我认为可能不同的原因之一是，因为我妈妈对疼痛有着惊人的忍耐力。
But you know one of the reasons why I think maybe it is, like, it's different, because my mom my mom has a crazy tolerance to pain.
就像我在洛杉矶的干细胞医生，我妈妈膝盖有严重问题，他也在给她治疗。
Like, my guy who my stem cell guy in LA, my mom had a a real knee issue, and he was treating her as well.
他说，这太有趣了。
And he goes, it's hilarious.
你妈妈就跟你一样。
Your mother's just like you.
她就这么忍着。
She just takes it.
连眉头都不皱一下。
Like, she doesn't even flinch.
她就这么硬扛着。
She's sticking it.
他说这种情况在75岁的老太太身上很少见。
Like, he's like, that doesn't happen with, like, 75 year old ladies.
比如，拿根针扎进膝盖里再推针，她连动都不动一下。
Like, take a needle and shove it in their knee and and push it, and she just doesn't move.
然后她还说，哦，一点都不疼。
And, you know, she's like, oh, it wasn't painful.
完全没什么大不了的。
It was no big deal.
要知道，很多75岁的老太太看到针头早就吓得冒冷汗了。
It's like, you know, a lot of 75 year old ladies would be fucking sweating and freaking out and seeing the needle.
我当然会害怕。
Sure I would be.
是啊。
Yeah.
但我不确定。
But I I I I don't know.
你知道吗？
You know?
而且我不知道其他人的感受如何。
And I don't know what it feels like to other people.
不过，当我做右膝前交叉韧带重建手术时，因为是用的尸体韧带，恢复起来容易多了，我向所有人推荐这种方式。
But, like, when I got my ACL, my right ACL reconstructed, it was a lot easier because it was a cadaver, and I recommend it to anybody.
髌腱移植和尸体韧带移植的恢复期差异，差不多有六个月之久。
The difference between a patella tendon graft recovery and a cadaver recovery is literally, like, six months.
差别真的有这么大吗？
The difference is is Really?
尸体肌腱的恢复快得多。
The cadaver was so much quicker.
哇。
Wow.
天啊。
Oh my god.
因为尸体肌腱，他们直接取用。
Because the cadaver, they take it.
我是说，术后还是会肿胀什么的，但那是别人的肌腱。
I mean, it's all swollen and everything afterwards, but it's somebody else's tendon.
他们从尸体上取下跟腱，所以比ACL强150%。
They take an Achilles tendon off of a cadaver, so it's a 150% stronger than an ACL.
他们用微创的小孔把那玩意儿牢牢固定住，创伤小得多。
They fucking screw that sucker in place, little tiny, orthoscopic holes, not nearly as invasive.
然后五天后，你知道马特·利希滕伯格吗？
And then five days later, you know, Matt Lichtenberg?
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