詹姆斯·克利尔：如何养成好习惯并改掉坏习惯

这种事会以各种小方式反复发生，但公开失败能锻炼你的内心。

And it happens again and again in small ways, but failing publicly trains your mind.

它教会你，最重要的不是你总是赢，而是你始终在追求，始终在努力。

It teaches you that what matters most is not that you always win, but that you always keep reaching, that you always keep striving.

在很多方面，真正重要的问题不是我能成功做什么或能实现什么，而是什么值得我去追求？

In a lot of ways, the real important question to ask is not what can I succeed on or what can I achieve, but what is worth reaching for?

你知道，你真正想要的，就是不断追求，不断努力。

You know, and that's really what you want is to keep reaching, to keep striving.

当你在这些小小的方面不断锻炼这种能力，最终你会达到一个能够应对大事的境界。

And as you train that muscle and develop it in all those little small ways, eventually you get to a point where you can handle it in big ways.

我记得我大四那年，最后一个赛季，我说：我不想输，但如果非输不可，我希望上场的是我。

You know, I remember my senior year, my final season, I said like, I don't want us to lose, but if we're going to lose, I want to be the one who's playing.

你知道，就让我上吧。

You know, like put me out there.

我能承受，我能接受失败。

I can handle, I can take the loss.

你知道，我不想输，但我能承受。

You know, I don't want to lose, but I can handle it.

我现在对商业中的事情也有同样的感受。

And I feel that way now too about stuff that I do, you know, in business.

我把所有精力都投入到了《原子习惯》的发布中。

I put everything that I had into the Atomic Habits launch.

我们提前十五个月就开始规划这次发布。

You know, like we started planning that launch fifteen months ahead of time.

在生活的很多方面，差不多就行了。

And in a lot of places in life, good enough is good enough.

但偶尔你会遇到一个领域，那里差不多是不够的，你希望做到最好。

But every now and then you find an area where good enough is not good enough and you want to do it the best you can do it.

我决定，对我而言，这就是其中之一，我要尽我所能做到最好。

And I decided that for me, that was one of those things that I was going to try to do as good as I could possibly do it.

而这伴随着风险。

And that comes with risk.

这伴随着脆弱性。

That comes with vulnerability.

你知道，接下来的一年半里，你将不断推广、宣传、谈论这个你倾注了三到五年生命投入的东西。

You know, you're going to spend your next year and a half promoting and pushing and talking about this thing that you poured three to five years of your life into.

如果人们讨厌它怎么办？

What if people hate it?

如果评价不好怎么办？

What if the reviews aren't any good?

如果你搞到了重要的采访，上了晨间节目，但书却失败了，卖不动怎么办？

You know, what if you secure big interviews and you go on morning shows and then the book flops and it doesn't sell?

如果出版商对我生气怎么办？因为他们提前付了我钱，或者期待这本书大卖，结果却表现不佳？

What if the publisher is mad at me because they paid me in advance or they were expecting it to do well and then it doesn't perform?

你会反复思考这些问题，而我的想法是——或许因为我长期锻炼了这种心态——我能应对这一切。

And like you sit with all those questions And my thought, I think partially because I had trained that muscle over time was I can handle it.

你知道，如果我们输了，我会处理好的，你会没事的。

You know, like if we lose, I'll deal with it, you know, and you'll be fine.

但我认为，一旦你有了这种自信，你就会有完全投入的勇气。

But I think once you have that confidence, then you have the confidence to go for it fully.

问题是，如果你没有这种自信，你就会开始说服自己放弃。

You know, the problem is if you don't have that confidence, you start talking yourself out of it.

你会削弱它。

You water it down.

你不会全力以赴地推广它。

You know, you don't promote it all the way.

你不会做所有你能做的事，因为你害怕结果会怎样。

You don't do all the things you could do because you're kind of scared of what the result could be.

如果它不顺利怎么办？

What if it doesn't go well?

所以我不会全力以赴。

So then I don't go all the way in.

然后这就变成了一种自我实现的预言，因为如果你没有倾尽所有，它肯定不会表现得很好。

And then it's kind of becomes a self fulfilling prophecy because it for sure isn't going to work that well if you don't give it everything you have.

你这么说的时候，我想到了‘为赢而战’和‘为不输而战’之间的区别。

As you're saying that, the thing that comes to mind is like the difference between playing to win and playing not to lose.

为不输而战时的犹豫，与直接全力以赴之间的对比。

And the hesitation that comes with playing not to lose versus like just going for it.

没错。

Yeah.

几年前的女足世界杯决赛，美国队击败了日本队，卡莉·劳埃德在那场比赛中进了三个球。

There's in the World Cup final, Women's World Cup a couple years ago, The US beat Japan, and Carly Lloyd scored like three goals in that game.

我认为她的第三个进球是从中场踢进的。

And I think the third of her goal she kicked from midfield.

关于这个进球的精彩之处在于，她看到了机会，立刻就果断出击了。

It was like just super long, but she the cool thing about that play is that she saw the opportunity to go for it and she went for it right away.

她从未让自己打退堂鼓。

She never talked herself out of it.

在大多数情况下，你根本不会尝试这种射门。

It was a shot that you would never take in most circumstances.

这可不是一个好球。

It's not a good shot.

这是一个高成功率的射门。

It's on a high percentage shot.

但她看到了机会，就立刻行动了。

But she saw an opening and she went for it.

她没有任何犹豫。

There was no hesitation.

同样地，这是完全不同的领域。

Similarly, totally different domain.

有一次，我和我妻子，我妻子她根本不怎么懂音乐，但我妻子很懂。

One time my wife and I my wife's I'm not very musical at all, but my wife is.

我们正在听扎奇·布朗乐队唱一首歌。

And we were listening to Zach Brown Band play a song.

她说：我特别喜欢听他唱歌的一点是，他的声音里没有任何犹豫。

And she was like, one thing I love about listening to him sing is that there's no hesitation in his voice.

当轮到他唱歌词时，他完全投入其中。

When he when it comes time to sing the lyric, he's, like, fully in it.

他不会犹豫不决，也不会自我怀疑。

He's not, like, second guessing himself or doubting himself.

他只是自信地歌唱。

It's just, singing with confidence.

所以在所有这些不同的领域——体育、音乐、商业——你都不能有这种犹豫。

And so in all these different domains, sports, music, business, you can't have that hesitation.

你知道，你不想成为那个自己劝自己放弃的人。

You know, you don't want to be the one talking yourself out of it.

对我来说，我努力不让自己成为瓶颈。

I think for me, I try to not be my own bottleneck.

我不想成为第一个对自己说‘不’的人。

You know, I don't want to have, I don't want to be the first person to tell myself no.

我希望世界先对我摇头，然后我再根据收到的反馈进行调整。

I want the world to tell me no first and then I'll adjust based on the feedback that I get.

但我不想自己否定自己。

But I don't want to talk myself out of it.

我内心常说的是，我会从魔法般的结果倒推。

One of my little sayings internally is like, I try to work backwards from magic.

那么，魔法般的结局会是什么？

So what would the magical outcome be?

然后我试着找出几条可能通往那里的路径。

And then let me try to figure out a couple different paths that could potentially get me there.

我会开始向前迈出几步，然后从外界获得反馈。

And I'll start to take steps forward and then I'll get feedback from the world.

你知道，我不会自己对自己说不。

You know, I don't tell myself no.

也许世界会告诉我不行，那时我需要调整方向。

Maybe the world will tell me no and I need to adjust the course.

但我总是从魔法般的结局开始，然后从那里出发。

But I start with the magical outcome and then go from there.

你会发现，我的意思是，我在家人身上看到过这种情况。

And what you find, I mean, I see it with family.

我在朋友身上也看到过。

I see it with friends.

我身边的很多人，几乎总是在世界真正阻止你之前，自己先放弃了自己的想法。

Like so many people that I'm around, almost always you talk yourself out of it before the world actually prevents you from doing it.

你真正遇到世界给出的明确拒绝——说‘抱歉，这不可能’——的情况非常罕见。

There is very rare that you truly run up against a hard stop in the world where they say, Sorry, this is impossible.

你试图做的事情，其实并不是真的不可能发生。

What you're trying to do is it can't happen.

几乎总是还有别人你可以去沟通，还有别的方法你可以尝试，还有别的机会你可以争取，而真正让你放弃的，是你自己，而不是世界。

There's almost always somebody else you could have talked to, another approach you could have taken, another attempt you could have gone for, and you're the one who talks yourself out of doing it, not the world.

所以我努力不要成为这样的人。

And so I try to not be that person.

我会给自己许可，去大胆尝试，然后在过程中不断调整。

I try to, you know, give myself permission to go for it and then adjust along the way.

我喜欢你这些小格言。

I love these little sayings you have.

你的情绪像雷电一样，你知道的，从魔法倒推回来。

You mood like thunder, you know, work backwards from magic.

在这个时刻，还有哪些内心格言对你特别有共鸣？

What other internal sayings do you have that really resonate with you in this moment?

我从祖父那里学到的最重要的一件事，就是他的那句座右铭：PMA，积极的心态。

One of the biggest things I learned from my grandfather was his little saying was PMA, positive mental attitude.

所以在任何情况下，无论当前境遇如何，你都尽量保持积极的态度。

So in any scenario, you try to have a positive outlook regardless of the current circumstances.

这听起来有时有点玄乎，或者总是要积极乐观之类的，但我一直努力更好地实践它，并教我的孩子们如何实践。

And that sounds a little kind of woo wooey sometimes or, you know, always think positive or whatever, but I have tried to become better at practicing it and teaching my kids how to practice it.

你可以这样做的一个方法是，当你遇到一些困难或缺乏信心的事情时，试着在脑海中模拟它，并着重想象可能出现的好结果。

So one way that you can do it is when you run up against something that feels kind of difficult or feels like, you don't feel confident about it, you try to rehearse it visually and you emphasize the good portions of what could happen.

这种想象可以在事后回顾时进行，也可以在事情发生前预先演练。

And this can happen either in retrospect or it can happen, pre visualization before the thing happens.

我给你举两个例子。

So I'll give you two examples.

回顾过去，当我十岁、十二岁或十四岁打棒球时，每个赛季结束后，我们都会坐在父母家的后甲板上，我和爸爸会聊聊这一年，讨论这一年中表现好的时刻。

In retrospect, when I played baseball and I was like 10 or 12 or 14, after each season, we would go sit on the back deck of my parents' house, and my dad and I would talk about the year, and we would talk about the good plays from the year.

我最出色的发挥、我最好的比赛，以及我们赢下的比赛。

My best plays, my best games, the games that we won.

我们会努力突出这些亮点。

We would we would try to highlight.

当时我并不知道，但他其实是在帮助我突出上一赛季中那些大大小小的胜利。

I didn't know this at the time, but what he was doing was he was helping me highlight the wins from, you know, small and big from that last season.

我记得我们的一些对话。

And I can remember some of the conversations that we had.

比如，我上高中时，从来不是球队里最出色的球员。

Like, one, I I got into high school, and I was never the best player on any team that I was on.

但他会说：你看。

But he was like, look.

只要你坚持下去，你会发现每年都会有人退出。

If you just keep sticking with it, what you're gonna find is that guys will drop off each year.

你知道的。

You know?

所以，仅仅通过坚持留在游戏中，这种持久性就会给你带来好处。

And so by just by there's this power of longevity of staying in the game that will benefit you.

他说得对。

And he was right.

我每打一年，球技就进步一点。

I I became a better player every year that I played.

所以这是一个回顾性的例子。

So that's like a retrospective one.

你有在强调自己的胜利吗？

Are you are you emphasizing your wins?

然后是面向未来的版本，如果你做一下预演的话。

And then the looking forward, if you do like a pre visualization version of it.

我有几个孩子。

So I have a couple kids.

其中一个三岁了，刚上幼儿园。

One of them is three and starting preschool.

他第一天去幼儿园的时候。

And, he went to preschool on the first day.

他很难适应分离。

He had a hard drop off.

他不喜欢那里。

He didn't like it.

别，你知道的，别丢下我。

Don't, you know, don't leave me.

我不知道这是什么地方。

I don't know what this place is.

感觉，你知道的，很可怕，之类的。

It feels, you know, scary, whatever.

所以他第一天被送过去的时候度过了艰难的一天。

So he had a tough day getting dropped off the first time.

第二天又来了，还是老样子，有点哭哭啼啼的，被送过去时也很不开心。

Second day comes, same thing, kind of cries a little bit, has a tough day when he gets dropped off.

到了第三天，我早上把他们叫醒，帮他们准备好了，还做了早餐之类的。

So the third day, I get them up in the morning and I get them ready and get them breakfast and stuff.

我在厨房里说：‘好了，孩子们，今天是上幼儿园的日子。’

So I'm in the kitchen and I said, all right, guys, today's a preschool day.

他立刻就反应过来了，而我赶紧说：‘等等，等等，等等。’

And immediately he was like, and I was like, hold on, hold on, hold on.

你喜欢你的老师，对吧，贾伦老师？

You like your teachers, right, Ms.

凯特琳老师，你喜欢吗？

Jalen, Ms.

你不喜欢吗？

Caitlin, don't you?

你喜欢他们吗？

You like them?

他回答说：嗯。

He's like, yeah.

我当时说：好吧。

I was like, Okay.

你们昨天做了什么？

What did you guys do yesterday?

你们玩了蜡笔和胶棒。

You got to play with the crayons and the glue sticks.

是不是很有趣？

Like, that was fun, wasn't it?

他回答说：嗯。

He was like, Yeah.

我问：你们有点心时间和午餐吗？

I said, Do you have snack time and lunch?

那些都是好事。

Like, those are good things.

他說，嗯。

He's like, Yeah.

然後我說，放學後，你去遊樂場玩，可以滑滑梯之類的。

And then I said, After school, you go play in the playground, so you get to go down the slides and everything.

他說，嗯。

He's like, Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

我就說了這些，你知道的，但我其實是想讓他關注即將發生的事情中積極的部分，想像這一天會有多美好。

And that was all I said, you know, but what I'm trying to do is to get him to emphasize the positive portions of what's about to come, to imagine what it would be like for the day to be good.

他說：‘我不知道，也許我們只是運氣好’，但那天他放學時表現得特別好，從那以後每天都喜歡上學。

And he went, I don't know, maybe we just got lucky, but he went and he had a great drop off that day, you know, and he's loved it every day since.

他一直都很安好。

He's been fine.

你可以看到这项技能如何应用到一生中。

And so you can see how that skill can be applied throughout life.

你知道，他们上四年级，正准备做第一次演讲。

You know, they're in fourth grade and they're getting ready to give their first presentation.

他们对在全班面前讲话感到紧张。

They feel nervous about talking in front of the class.

太好了，让我们一步步来，强调那些美好的部分。

Great, let's walk through this and emphasize what the good parts are going to be.

或者，你知道，他们上八年级，要去参加人生第一次学校舞会，感觉很不自在。

Or, you know, they're getting, they're in eighth grade and they're going to go to their first school dance and they feel weird and awkward about it.

让我们聊聊一个美好的夜晚会是什么样子。

Like, let's talk about what a good night would look like.

你生活中的许多问题都源于大脑过度关注一些微小的细节，但却是错误的细节。

And so, so many of your problems in life come from your brain overemphasizing minor details, the wrong minor details.

我试图对我自己、我的孩子以及周围的人做的，就是鼓励他们关注那些美好的微小细节。

And what I'm trying to do with both myself and my kids and the people around me is to encourage them to emphasize good minor details.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道吗，你抓住了一天中的哪一部分？你给自己讲的是什么故事？

You know, to what portion of the day are you latching onto and what story are you telling yourself?

你越能这样做，就越像锻炼肌肉一样。

And so the more that you can do that, it's kind of like a muscle.

你做得越多，就越擅长这件事。

The more that you do it, the better you get at it.

这最终又回到了我爷爷教我的那种积极心态（PMA）。

And that's ultimately that goes back to that PMA, positive mental attitude that, you know, my grandpa taught me.

所以，这是我的另一个小贴士。

And so that's another one of my little things.

我喜欢这个。

I love that.

我想谈谈声誉。

I want to talk about reputation.

我想听听，也许我就直接说出这个词，然后你可以围绕它展开几分钟。

I want to hear maybe I'll just say the word and like you can riff on it for a few minutes.

声誉。

Reputation.

是指我的声誉，还是我对声誉的看法？

Like my reputation or how I think about it?

你怎么看待声誉？

How do think about reputation?

我其实不太怎么想它。

I don't really think about it that much.

我并不太担心这个。

I'm not I'm not that worried about it.

我想我主要看待声誉的方式是，我希望被人认为是有用的人。

I guess the main way that I think about it is I want to be known as someone who is useful.

你知道，'有用'这个词是我经常提到的。

You know, like useful is a word that I come back to a lot.

如果乔什·考夫曼有一个好的框架的话。

If you Josh Kaufman has a good framework.

它包含三件事。

It's like three things.

我认为是真实、有用和清晰。

I think it's true, useful and clear.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道，你希望写出真实且准确的内容。

You know, it's like you want to write things that are true and accurate.

你希望写出有用且可操作的内容，并且在表达时要清晰易懂。

You want to write things that are useful and actionable, and you want to be clear and understandable in how you do it.

我认为这确实描述了我很多做事的方式，以及我如何努力专注于将作品呈现给世界。

I think that does describe a lot of my approach and how I'm trying to focus on, you know, putting work into the world.

好的。

All right.

所以我想我并不太在意自己的声誉，但这是我通常对声誉、地位、品牌等的看法。

So I guess I don't think about my reputation that much, but this is how I generally think about reputation, status, brand, whatever.

最终，你的声誉就是你所做工作的质量。

Ultimately, your reputation will be the work, the quality of the work that you do.

所以我认为，布伦特·贝肖尔曾经说过，品牌所能带来的结果范围就是如此。

So it is, I think Brent Beshore said at one point, it's like the range of outcomes that you can expect from a brand.

因此，你做得越多高质量、有用、有价值且可操作的事情，你就越会被认为是这样的。

And so the more that you do things that are high quality and useful and valuable and actionable, the more that you will become known for that.

当然，这其中也有一点预设的影响。

Now there is a little bit of priming that can go on.

比如，在我的通讯《Three Twenty One》的顶部，写着‘网络上每字蕴含智慧最多的通讯’。

So like at the top of three twenty one, my newsletter, it says the most wisdom per word of any newsletter on the web.

我正是想在这里设定这样的期望，对吧？

I'm trying to set that expectation there, right?

当有人注册订阅并看到这句话时，他们就会想：好吧，我即将阅读的是一篇充满智慧、内容密集且信息量大的文章。

Like it's when somebody signs up and subscribes and they read that, now you see that and you're like, okay, I'm about to read something that has a lot of wisdom and is like dense and informative.

信息量很大，噪音却很少。

There's a lot of signal and very little noise.

这就是我想营造的基调。

That's the tone I'm trying to set.

但另一方面，你必须兑现承诺。

Now, the flip side of that is you have to deliver.

没错。

Yeah.

所以如果你设定了这样的期望，却无法真正实现，那结果就不会好。

And so if you set that expectation and you don't actually deliver, well, it's not going to go very well.

因此，我也在一定程度上把责任担在了自己身上。

And so I'm also putting the responsibility on me a little bit.

你知道，没什么可以躲藏的。

You know, there's like nothing to hide behind.

我在我的Instagram账号上也是这么做的。

I do this with my Instagram account.

这就像一个非常奇怪的Instagram账号。

It's like a very weird Instagram account.

你知道，里面没有我的照片。

You know, there's no photos of me.

全是文字。

It's just text.

但它有点像孔雀的尾巴，是一种非常有用的累赘。

But it's kind of like a peacock's tail, you know, in the sense that it's a very useful hindrance.

它非常视觉化，能显示出哪些孔雀足够强大，能拥有这种多余的尾巴还能生存并躲避捕食者。

Like it's very visual and it shows which peacocks are strong enough to have this kind of superfluous tail to still survive and escape predators.

那些才是基因优秀的孔雀。

Those are the ones that have great genes.

当你在Instagram账号上无处可藏，只剩下文字时，这些想法就必须足够出色。

Well, when you can't hide behind anything else on your Instagram account and it's just words, the ideas have to be good enough.

这是一种有用的累赘。

You know, it's useful hindrance.

这是一种阻碍人们注意力的有益障碍。

It's a useful blockage to getting people's attention.

所以我想，如果只能靠文字，那这些文字必须足够出色。

And so I'm like, well, if it's just going to be words, they better be pretty good.

因此，我会思考如何设定这些期望，提前塑造这些标准，然后努力去实现它们。

So I think about setting those, priming those expectations and setting those standards and then also trying to reach them.

但归根结底，关键还是你所做工作的质量。

But ultimately, it's just about the quality of the work that you do.

所以，你越是展现出价值和有用的想法，就越会因此而为人所知。

And so the more that you show up with value and useful ideas, the more you become known for that.

我想，这也和声誉有关，但我并不太刻意去为我自己塑造它。

I think I also, this is kind of connected to reputation, but I don't think about shaping it for me that much.

但视角应该主要聚焦在读者身上，而不是你自己。

But the lens should be mostly focused on the reader, not on yourself.

如果你过多地考虑声誉，试图培养某种形象，那你的精力就用错方向了。

I think if you think a lot about reputation and you're trying to like cultivate this image, that's the energy is focused in the wrong direction.

如果你专注于读者，就会开始提出不同的问题。

If you're focused on the reader, then you start asking different questions.

我怎样才能为某人创造出极其有用的东西？

How can I create something that's incredibly useful for somebody?

我怎样才能让它更具可操作性？

How can I make it more actionable?

我怎样才能让它更容易理解、更简单？

How can I make it easier to understand and simpler?

我怎样才能让它简单到足以教给别人？

How can I make it easy enough that I can teach it?

所有这些问题都聚焦于读者的视角，或者说他们的立场。

Now all those questions are focused on the reader's, you know, view or their from their position.

还有像这样的问题：人们现在需要什么？

And then there's also just questions like, what do people need right now?

你知道，比如，人们现在需要什么，他们会想要什么，嗯。

You know, like, what what is what is somebody what would yeah.

人们在寻求什么？

What are people asking for?

我正努力关注这一点。

I'm trying to pay attention to that.

所以总的来说，我认为如果你尽力照顾他人，声誉自然会水到渠成。

So for the most part, I think reputation takes care of itself if you try to take care of other people.

如果你的视角聚焦于他们，那么结果最终也会对你非常有利。

And if your lens is focused on them, then it ends up, you know, working just fine for you.

我非常喜欢这一点。

I love that.

谢谢。

Thanks.

那定位呢？

What about positioning?

定位至关重要。

Positioning is critical.

定位是我经常思考的问题。

Positioning is something that I think a lot about.

我觉得我还没完全弄明白，但我已经看到了它有多么强大。

I don't think I have it figured out yet, but I have seen how powerful it can be.

让我给你举几个例子。

So let me give you a couple examples.

我先从书籍的定位说起，然后我会谈谈人生的定位。

I'll start with positioning for books, and then I'll start talking about positioning for life.

任何产品，它的定位和包装方式可能决定了它50%的成功。

So any product, the way that it is positioned and packaged is probably 50% of its success.

再举几个关于书籍的例子。

A couple examples from books.

《原子习惯》一书中，后面有一章我谈到了刻意练习。

Atomic Habits has a chapter later in it where I talk about deliberate practice.

它本来可以是一本关于刻意练习的书，而我只是顺便提到习惯。

It could have been a book about deliberate practice where I talk about habits.

嗯。

Yeah.

但事实上，这是一本关于习惯的书，其中我谈到了刻意练习。

But instead it's a book about habits where I talk about deliberate practice.

我认为这两本书的销售方式差异巨大。

And I think the way those two books would sell, the difference is enormous.

如果你不知道什么是刻意练习，只需三十秒就能解释清楚。

If you don't know what deliberate practice is, it takes thirty seconds to unpack it and describe it.

它和普通练习有什么不同呢？

How is it different than regular practice and so on?

当人们在考虑买书时，你没有三十秒的时间来解释。

You don't get thirty seconds when somebody's thinking about buying a book.

你不可能在商店里向他们解释。

You're not there at the store to explain it to them.

所以，书籍的包装和定位——我认为这几乎包括封面上你看到的一切——必须在七秒内自行说服读者，你知道吗？

So the packaging, the positioning of the book, which I would describe as pretty much anything that you see on the cover, has to sell itself in seven seconds, you know?

仅仅因为成长于社会之中并成为世界的一部分，你就知道拥有好习惯是有利的，而坏习惯则是不利的。

And just by virtue of growing up in society and being part of the world, you know that having good habits is favorable and having bad habits is unfavorable.

我不需要向任何人推销这一点。

And I don't need to sell anybody on that.

我只需要让你明白：如果你只读一本关于习惯的书，那应该是《原子习惯》。

All I need to sell you on is, Hey, if you only read one book about habits, Atomic Habits should be the one.

这是一个完全不同的推销方式。

And that's a much different pitch.

因此，定位和包装至关重要。

And so the positioning and packaging makes a big difference.

另一个例子是，Authors Equity 是我协助共同创立的一家出版社。

Another example, that, so Authors Equity is this book publisher that I helped co found.

我们即将出版一本名为《过度思考者决策指南》的书。

We have a book coming out, called The Overthinker's Guide to Making Decisions.

这本质上是一本关于选择的书。

And that is basically a book about choices.

这是一本关于选择和做决定的书。

It's a book about choosing and making decisions.

它本来可以有其他名字。

It could have been called something else.

比如，它可以叫《决策指南》或《选择的力量》之类的。

You know, it could have been called The Decision Guide or The Power of Choice or something.

你知道，它本来可以叫那个名字。

You know, it could have been called that.

但《过度思考者的决策指南》是一个绝佳的包装。

But the overthinker's guide to making decisions is a great package.

这是一个很好的框架。

It's a great frame.

我向多人推荐过这本书，他们的回应都是：‘哦，我需要这本书。’

I have told multiple people about it, and the reply to me has been, Oh, I need that.

当人们以这种方式产生兴趣时，通常说明你的包装做对了。

And that's usually a sign that you got the packaging right is that, you know, people are interested in that way.

所以，这些都是产品定位的两个例子。

So those are two examples of positioning for products.

我认为，任何产品的定位和包装都是成功的关键部分。

And I think any product, the positioning and packaging is a critical part of the success.

在继续讨论人生的定位之前，我想先提一下良好定位的几个要素。

Before I go on to positioning about life, I just want to mention a few things that make for good positioning.

这其中很多内容都源自直接回应式文案写作的原则。

So a lot of this is our principles from direct response copywriting.

这是一个值得研究的好领域，或者说是寻找例子的好地方。

It's a good domain to study or a good place to look for examples.

但直接回应式文案写作的一个核心原则是，你应该努力解决或回应人们持久而根本的渴望。

But one of the core principles of direct response copywriting is that you should try to solve or address a timeless and enduring desire that people have.

很多书籍和其他产品都是如此，但我尤其常想到书籍。

And so many books and other products, but I think a lot about books.

很多书籍只是接近人们内心的渴望，而非直击核心。

So many books are kind of adjacent to a desire people have.

它们并不是真正的欲望。

They're not the actual desire.

然后你就陷入了一场 uphill battle，试图说服别人关注他们并不真正关心的东西，而你却想满足一种持久而永恒的欲望。

And then you're kind of in this uphill battle where you're trying to convince somebody to pay attention to something that they don't actually care about, but you want to address a timeless and enduring desire.

所以，一本好书的标题很大程度上也决定了好的包装。

So a lot of what makes for a really good book title is part of what makes for good packaging.

好的书名通常具备三到四个特质。

So good book titles usually have three or four qualities.

第一个特质是它能触及一种持久或永恒的欲望。

The first quality is it addresses a timeless or enduring desire.

第二个特质是它明确告诉你这本书真正讲的是什么，这听起来似乎显而易见，但很多时候人们喜欢用关键词式的标题。

The second quality is it tells you what the book is actually about, which sounds kind of obvious, but a lot of the time people kind of like keyword stuff titles.

比如他们会说：如何赚百万、获得幸福、实现梦想。

You know, they say like, How to Make Millions, Be Happy, and Live the Dream.

你会想：这根本不是这本书真正讲的内容

And you're like, That's not even what this

这本书是

book is

关于的，但不管怎样。

about, but whatever.

它们的第二点或第三点是，它们是一个独一无二且可专属的短语。

The second thing that or the third thing that they do is that they are an unmistakable or an ownable phrase.

这通常意味着，当你第一次听到时，它会有点奇怪。

So what that usually means is that it's a little bit weird when you first hear it.

许多极具标志性的书名，都是你在生活中其他地方听不到的短语。

A lot of the really iconic book titles, they are phrases that you do not hear elsewhere in life.

比如，《活出生命的意义》。

So, Man's Search for Meaning.

基本上，你只在书名中听到这句话。

Basically, you only hear that in the book title.

没有人会在日常生活中使用这个短语。

Nobody uses that phrase in daily life.

如何赢得朋友并影响他人。

How to win friends and influence people.

即使现在描述为赢得朋友，听起来也有点奇怪。

Even to even now describing it as winning friends sounds kind of odd.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道吗？

You know?

但它足够独特，让人一听就知道你在说什么。

But it's it's odd enough that there's no mistaking what you're talking about.

它们能在读者心中占据独特的地位。

They can own the real estate in the reader's mind.

原子习惯。

Atomic habits.

在这本书出版之前，你不会把习惯描述为原子的。

Before the book came out, you would not describe a habit as atomic.

你可能会说它很小、微小或微不足道，但你不会说它是‘原子的’。

You might have said it was little or small or tiny or something like that, but you wouldn't say atomic.

用‘原子’来形容一个小习惯很奇怪，但这正是好处所在，因为你可以独占这个说法。

It's a weird way to describe a small habit, but that's good because you can own that phrase.

这种表达无可争议，触及了永恒或持久的渴望，直接告诉你这本书真正讲的是什么。

So unmistakable, addresses a timeless or enduring desire, tells you what the book is actually about.

最后一部分通常是某种对比或惊喜元素。

And the final piece is that usually there's an element of contrast, some element of surprise.

比如《富爸爸穷爸爸》或《生活大爆炸的整理魔法》。

So rich dad, poor dad, or the life changing magic of tidying up.

我一直以为整理是个小事。

I thought tidying up was a small thing.

现在你却告诉我，它能改变人生。

Now you're telling me it's life changing.

原子习惯，微小改变，惊人成果。

Atomic habits, tiny changes, remarkable results.

你知道，你希望在某些时候体现小与大的对比，有时是通过简单的事情来完成困难的事情，但必须存在某种形式的对比。

You know, you want some kind of contrast between sometimes it's small to big, sometimes it's the easy thing you can do to accomplish the hard thing, but there needs to be some form of contrast.

一个不错的例子，不是自助书或商业书，而是尼尔·德葛拉司·泰森的《给忙碌者的天体物理学》。

A good example that's not like a self help book or a business book is Astrophysics for People in a Hurry by Neil deGrasse Tyson.

没错。

Yep.

我以为天体物理学得花七年时间，还得拿个博士学位。

I thought astrophysics was something that was going to take seven years and a PhD.

是的。

Yeah.

不，其实只要读完这本不到

No, actually, just read this book in an

一个小时就读完了，而且还

hour And and a

所以这种对比是很有吸引力的。

so the contrast is something that's compelling.

如果你具备这四个要素，通常就能实现良好的定位和包装。

So if you have those four elements, that usually leads to good positioning and packaging.

所以这只是关于产品方面的内容。

All So that's just on the product side.

另外，还有一个关于定位的完整讨论，即生活定位。

Separately, there's a whole other discussion about positioning, which is like life positioning.

是的。

Yeah.

你如何让自己处于有利于事情发生的好位置？

How can you put yourself in good positions for things to happen?

实现这一点的方式有很多。

And there are so many ways that you could do this.

我相信你也能想到很多种方法。

I'm sure that you can think of many too.

有时候，仅仅就是让自己处于好事可能发生的位置。

Sometimes it's just about putting yourself in positions for good things to happen.

我们之前谈过公开分享你的作品。

So we talked earlier about sharing your work publicly.

你发布的每一集节目、每一篇博客文章、每一个社交媒体帖子，都是让人发现你的机会，你可能会因此有一些有趣的互动。

Every episode that you publish, every blog post that you put out, every social media post that you put up is a little bit of surface area that somebody could discover and you could, you know, have some interesting interaction.

在《原子习惯》上市当天，我今天早上接受了CBS的采访。

For Atomic Habits on launch day, I had an interview on CBS this morning.

我记得那个。

I remember that.

是的。

Yeah.

那对我来说是个重要的时刻，因为它把这本书的发布从‘一个普通人出书’变成了‘一件大事’。

It was it was a big it was a big moment for me because it changed the launch of the book from, hey, some guy is releasing a book to this is a thing.

你看，这是国家级媒体的报道。

You know, here's a piece of national media.

基本上，大家都在关注了。

People are paying attention basically.

这让它显得可信且真实。

It made it feel credible and real.

而事情的经过是，我在四年前写了一篇博客文章，名为《生产力的物理学》。

And the way that it happened is I wrote an article, a blog post on my site four years earlier called The Physics of Productivity.

我只是想耍点聪明，把牛顿的三大定律应用到生产力上。

And it was just me trying to be clever taking Newton's three laws and applying them to productivity.

这篇文章在那里躺了四年，一切安好。

And it sat there for four years and it was fine.

它只是一篇普通的文章。

It was an average article.

它没有走红，但也表现不错。

It didn't go viral or anything, but it did fine.

就在《原子习惯》出版前一年，一位《纽约时报》的记者偶然发现了我的网站，很喜欢，就在一篇文章中引用了它。

And then a year before Atomic Habits came out, a reporter at the New York Times stumbled across my website and liked it and they linked to it in an article.

后来，CBS的一位制片人读到了那篇文章，心想：嘿，你能来谈谈这些生产力原则吗？

Well, some producer at CBS read that article and was like, Hey, can we have you come on and talk about those productivity principles?

所以我去了CBS，在书出版前一年做了一个访谈片段。

So I went on and I did a segment for CBS about a year before the book came out.

大概是十个月左右吧。

It was maybe like ten months or something.

我做了大约三分钟的片段，就是一次小小的采访。

And I did that segment for like three minutes, just a little interview.

采访一结束，我就去找盖尔·金，说：‘我的书十个月后就要出版了，我想等书出来时再回来做节目聊聊。’

And as soon as it got done, I went to Gail King and I said, I have a book coming out in ten months and I wanna come back on the show and talk about it when it's ready.

她说：‘当然可以。’

And she said, sure.

我们会再邀请你回来。

We'll have you back on.

你只需要确保我们是你第一个采访的媒体。

You just need to be make sure that we're your first interview.

我们想成为第一个，你知道的，首发内容。

Like, we wanna have the first, you know, release.

我说，成交。

And I said, deal.

你的邮箱地址是什么？

What's your email address?

于是我拿到了她的邮箱，发给了我的出版商，我们把一切都对接上了。

And so I got her email, and I sent it to my publisher and we got it all linked up.

所以当我四年前写那篇文章时，根本没想到会这样发展，你知道的，但这算是提供了一点机会。

So when I wrote that article four years earlier, I had no idea that that was going to work out like that, you know, but it was a little bit of surface area.

我通过努力创造一些有价值且持久的内容，让自己处于一个能迎来好运的位置。

I was putting myself in a position for good things to happen by trying to create something of value in an enduring format.

你知道的，我们之前讨论过什么具有长久的生命力。

You know, again, we talked about what has a long half life.

那篇博客文章的生命周期至少有四年。

That blog post had a half life of at least four years.

是的。

Yeah.

我让自己处于一个有利于事情向好发展的位置。

And I put myself in a good position for things to break my way.

你不知道事情会如何发生，但只要你每次都尽最大努力，持续创造机会，总有一天会时来运转。

You don't know how it's going to happen, but you know if you try your best each time and you keep creating some surface area, you're going to catch a break at some point.

所以这是一个商业上的例子。

So that's like a business example.

关于安全边际，尤其是在财务方面，有很多例子。

There are tons of examples with margin of safety, especially with finances.

如果你给自己留出很大的安全边际，也就是说，你的生活开支远低于你的收入，你就能应对各种突发状况。

You know, if you give yourself a large margin of safety, in other words, your expenses for your life are much less than what you're taking in, you can handle a lot of things coming your way.

因此，这是为自己应对生活中的意外情况做好准备。

And so that is positioning yourself well for the unexpected elements of life.

我们家遇到一些医疗问题，当时有人需要一些定制的医疗设备，因为他们所面对的情况特殊。

You know, we have a family situation with some medical stuff and there were, you know, there was some customized medical equipment that somebody needed because of what they were dealing with.

这设备要20万美元，简直是一笔巨额开支。

And it's $200,000 and it's like, it's a huge expense.

但如果你为自己留出了巨大的安全边际，并且已经存了多年钱，你就不会知道那会是什么。

But if you give yourself a huge margin of safety and you've been saving for years, you don't know what that's going to be.

对吧？

Right?

可能是那种情况。

It could be that.

嗯。

Yeah.

我有时会说的一个小观点是：生活终将找上你。

It could be so one of my little things that I'll say sometimes is like life is gonna come for you.

你不知道它什么时候来，也不知道轮到你是什么时候，但它一定会来找你。

You just don't know when you don't know when it will be your turn, but it will come for you.

总会有些事情发生的。

There will be something.

所以这笔开销并不是轮到我们。

So that expense was not our turn.

但几年后，我妻子摔倒了，膝盖摔成了四块，我不得不请假六个月照顾她。

But a couple years later, my wife fell and broke her knee into four pieces and I had to take six months off of work.

我特别感谢过去的詹姆斯，对吧？

I'm like super thankful to previous James, right?

就是十年前的詹姆斯，他建立了这个事业，让我能真正请六个月假来照顾她和孩子们——如果我没有这份安全缓冲，我能怎么办呢？

Like James from ten years earlier that built this business where I could actually take six months off of work to take care of her and the kids because what was I going do if I didn't have that margin of safety?

但我让自己处于一个能够实现这一切的位置。

But I put myself in a position where I was able to make that happen.

因此，每年我都会从灵活性和财务状况两个方面审视自己的处境。

And so each year, I look at my position both in terms of like flexibility and in terms of finances.

我其实并不太在意我们的净资产。

And I just I don't really even care about our net worth that much.

我在意的是，今年我的处境是否比去年更强了？

What I care about is am I in a stronger position this year?

你知道，只要每年都在变得更强一点，安全缓冲就大一点，应对压力或不确定性的能力也更好一点，那么你每年都在为自己创造更好的条件。

You know, like as long as each year it's getting a little bit stronger, the margin of safety gets a little bit larger, the ability to handle stress or uncertainty gets a little bit better, then, you know, you're positioning yourself better each year.

因此，有很多方式可以应用这种定位理念。

And so there are lots of ways to apply that positioning concept.

稍微跑题了。

Just a slight off track here.

你最近是怎么投资这些钱的？

How are you investing that money these days?

嗯。

Yeah.

我不确定是否想谈论我的个人投资，但我可以谈谈我的个人理念。

I don't know that I want to talk about my personal investments, but I will talk about my personal philosophy.

我想我还是说一下吧。

Guess I'll say that.

嗯。

Yeah.

最终我意识到，你可以战胜市场，但会失去自己的人生。

Eventually, realized that you can beat the market, but you will lose your life.

所以我的意思是，获得超额回报是可能的，但你必须把所有时间都花在这上面。

And so what I mean is that it is possible to get outsized returns, but you have to spend all your time doing it.

我不希望成为风险投资人或投资顾问，或者像那种试图成为下一个巴菲特或芒格之类的人。

And I don't want to be a VC or an investment advisor or, you know, like somebody who's, I don't know, trying to be the next Buffett or Munger or whatever.

这不是我想度过我时间的方式。

It's not how I want to spend my time.

你知道，人这一生只有一次，我想把它花在其他事情上。

You know, you only get one precious life and I want to spend it on other things.

我主要想用它来创造，比如尝试做出以前不存在的东西，以及陪伴家人。

Mostly I want to spend it creating, you know, trying to make things that didn't exist before and spending time with family.

所以我正在为此做优化。

And so I'm kind of optimizing for that.

所以如果你能接受这一点，你就会意识到，也许存在非常不同或更简单的方式来投资你的钱。

So if you can be okay with that, then you realize, well, maybe there's very different ways or simpler ways to invest your money.

比如，我大力推崇JL·柯林斯的《简单财富之路》这本书。

Like, I'm a huge advocate of JL Collins and The Simple Path to Wealth, that book.

我认为他的方法非常好，就是把钱全放进先锋基金，然后长期持有。

His approach, I think, is great, which is mostly just like dump it in Vanguard and let it ride.

但这方法极其简单，让我重新获得了所有时间。

But it's incredibly simple, and I get all my time back.

如果我每年赚12%而不是15%，谁会在意呢？

And if I'm making 12% a year rather than 15% a year, who cares?

你知道的。

You know?

我宁愿放弃那3%的年收益，来换取按照自己意愿安排时间的权利。

Like, I'd rather trade the 3% a year and get to spend my hours the way that I want.

所以我的整个方法都围绕这一点，即简化投资，确保我优先保护自己的时间，而不是拼命追求超越市场收益的几个百分点。

So a of my approach is based around that, around simplifying and trying to make sure that I protect my time more than trying to squeeze out additional percentage points beyond what the market makes.

你知道吗，我曾经听过另一句话：记住，目标不是战胜市场。

You know, there I heard this other phrase once, which is remember that the goal is not to beat the market.

目标是最终变得富有。

The goal is to end up wealthy.

你知道吗？

You know?

像很多人只关注战胜市场，结果浪费了所有时间，最后甚至可能连市场都战胜不了。

Like, so many people are focused on beating the market that they lose all their time and end up, I don't know, in many cases, not even beating the market.

但没错。

But yeah.

所以这就给了你一种稍微不同的方法。

So it just gives you a little bit of a different approach.

而且我认为投资先锋基金非常分散，因为你持有了每一家公司的股份。

And I think also I investing in Vanguard is incredibly diversified because you got a slice of every company.

我意识到，我没有能力预测哪些东西会表现良好。

I have realized that I do not have the ability to predict what is gonna go well.

是的。

Yeah.

我现在比一两年前更加强烈地感受到这一点。

And I feel even more that way now than I did a year or two ago.

事情变得太快了。

Things are moving so fast.

人工智能的兴起，等等。

The rise of AI, whatever.

我真的无法告诉你，三年或十年后哪些公司会位列《财富》500强之首。

Like, I really I cannot tell you what companies are gonna be at the top of the Fortune 500 in three years or ten years.

我真的毫无把握。

Like, I I have no confidence.

它们可能根本就不存在了。

They may not even exist.

是的。

Yeah.

我对这一点毫无信心。

I I I have no confidence in it.

所以我宁愿不去挑选赢家，而是顺应整体趋势。

So I I would rather not try to pick the winners and instead just play the general trend.

我想问问你关于你的阅读习惯，你是如何将所读的内容融入到你的工作或思考中，使其常驻脑海的？

I wanted to ask you about your reading habit and how you take what you're reading and incorporate it into what you're doing or thinking about or make it top of mind.

读完东西后很容易放下就忘掉了。

It's so easy to read something and sort of put it down and then forget about it.

我刚开始时每周写两篇文章，持续了三年，每周一和周四都写。

I wrote two articles a week for three years when I started out, every Monday and Thursday.

大约一年后，我的订阅人数达到了十万。

And about a year in, I hit a 100,000 subscribers.

我跟自己进行了一次对话。

And I had this conversation with myself.

我不知道为什么，但那个数字一直在我脑子里挥之不去。

I don't know why, but I got kind of in my head about that number.

我想，现在有这么多人在关注，内容必须非常出色。

And I thought, well, now a lot of people are paying attention, so it needs to be really good.

是的。

Yeah.

我本该直接说，一切进展得非常顺利。

What I should have just said was things are going very well.

继续做你正在做的事。

Just keep doing what you're doing.

对吧？

Right?

但我心想，如果我真的想做得更好，那我就应该花更多时间写作

But I thought, well, if I really wanna make it good, then I should spend more time writing

它。

it.

对。

Right.

结果事情变得更糟了，而不是更好。

And what happened is things got worse, not better.

最终我意识到，如果我想成为一个更好的作家，我需要的不是写得更多，而是读得更多。

And eventually what I realized is that if I want to be a better writer, what I needed was not to write more, but to read more.

这就像给汽车加油。

And it's kind of like filling a car up with gas.

你知道，阅读就像给汽车加油。

You know, reading is like filling the car up.

写作就像开车去旅行。

Writing is like driving and going on a journey.

你需要两者兼备。

And you need both.

你知道吗？

You know?

重点不是整天坐在加油站里不停地给汽车加油。

Like the point is not just to sit at the gas station all day and keep filling the car up.

油箱已经满了。

Like the tank is already full.

是的。

Yeah.

你应该出去看看外面的世界。

You should go out and see something.

但如果你一味地开车，最终会抛锚在路边。

But if you just keep driving, you end up stranded on the side of the road.

因此，对我而言，阅读是我获取灵感和想法的主要方式。

And so for me, reading is the primary way that I generate inspiration and ideas.

你产生的每一个想法，几乎都源于你所接触的内容。

Almost every thought that you have is downstream from what you consume.

这非常罕见。

It's so rare.

甚至神经科学家们还在争论，是否真的可能产生一个完全自发的想法。

There's even a debate among neuroscientists whether it's even possible to have a spontaneous thought, truly spontaneous thought.

你知道，你跟我说些什么，或者问我一个问题，就会激发我的一个想法。

You know, you say something to me or ask me a question and that sparks a thought.

或者有人在交通中插队，让你产生某种情绪，诸如此类。

Or somebody cuts you off in traffic and that makes you feel a certain way or whatever.

但这一切只是你不断回应一天中出现的各种情境和输入的无限链条。

But it's just an endless string of you responding to the situations and inputs that come to you throughout the day.

所以我们通常不会给予这些选择太多重视，但当你选择在社交媒体上关注谁、选择听哪些播客、选择读哪些书时，你其实是在选择你未来的思维方式。

So we don't usually give it this amount of weight, but when you choose who you follow on social media, when you choose what podcasts to listen to, when you choose what books to read, you're choosing your future thoughts.

是的。

Yeah.

如果你想拥有更好、更高效、更有创造力的想法，你就需要更好、更高效、更有创造力的输入。

And if you want better, more productive, more creative thoughts, you need better, more productive, more creative inputs.

因此，选择读什么、听什么、关注谁，实际上是一个非常重要的决定。

And so choosing what to read or choosing what to listen to or who to subscribe to is actually a very weighty decision.

这是一个非常重要的决定。

It's a very important decision.

我发现我现在阅读的习惯，有点像爱默生的一句名言，我认为他说过，他阅读时就像老鹰在田野上空盘旋，搜寻猎物。

I I find that my reading habit now there's there's some quote about Emerson, I think, where he says he reads like a hawk flying over a field scanning for prey.

而我觉得，很多时候我的阅读方式就是这样。

And I kind of feel like that's how I read a lot of the time.

我几乎不是为了整本书而读，而是为了其中的思想或章节而读。

I'm almost reading for, like, ideas or for chapters, not for books.

我在寻找那些与我当前写作或学习内容相关的部分。

You know, I'm looking for the piece that is relevant to what I'm writing about at the time or what I'm trying to learn at the time.

我不会只是坐下来，说：好吧，让我读一读，顺便把这个论点拆解一下，图个乐子。

I'm not just sitting down and saying, well, let me read and unpack this argument for fun.

也许当我人生某个阶段写作变少时，我会更多地为了享受或纯粹求知而阅读。

Maybe when I do, if I am at a stage in my life at some point where I'm doing less writing, maybe I will read for that way more, you know, just for enjoyment or for knowledge for knowledge's sake.

但目前，我读书更多是为了获得成果——即提炼内容并以可操作的方式应用，然后分享给世界。

But right now, I'm kind of reading more for knowledge for an outcome, which is for me to distill it and apply it in some actionable way and then share it with the world.

那具体是怎样的呢？

So what does that look like?

比如，你在读一本书。

Like, you're reading a book.

你会做标记吗？

Are you highlighting?

你把那些标亮的内容复制到Word文档里了吗？

Are you taking that highlight and putting it into, like, a Word document?

比如

Like

如果我读到一本非常好且与我当前工作相关的书，我就很难继续推进。

If I read a book that's really good and relevant to what I'm working on at the time, it's very hard for me to make progress on it.

我会发现，说实话，我可能得花上很长时间，毕竟现在我不怎么工作了，因为我们有了这么多孩子。

I will it it might take me, like seriously, I might spend I mean, at this point, I'm I'm not working as much because I we have all these kids.

但我可能会花四个小时才能读完三页。

But but I like, it might take me four hours to get through three pages.

因为当我读到书中的某个部分时，它正好触及了我一直在思考和琢磨的问题，并激发了我的灵感。

Like, because there's I'm reading I'm at a point in the book where it's just really hitting on what I've been like kind of stewing on and thinking about, and it's sparking ideas.

所以我会读到一句话或一段话，然后心想：‘得赶紧写点关于这个的东西。’

So I'll read a sentence or a paragraph, and I'm like, gotta write about this for a second.

然后我会写上两页，再回去继续读，接着又写一些。

And then I, you know, I may end up writing two pages, and then I go back and I read some more, and then I, you know, write some more.

当没有那么强烈的时候，我更喜欢读纸质书。

When it's not as intense as that, then it'll be more what I do is I I prefer to read physical books.

听音频对我也有帮助，尤其是我经常开车的时候。

I also audio can also be helpful for me, especially if I'm in the car a lot or something.

这显然是更好的方式。

It's just a you know, obviously, it's a better way to do that.

但它对我确实有帮助，特别是当书内容比较深奥的时候。

But it can be helpful for me, especially if a book is kind of dense.

我发现听音频更好，因为如果书特别深奥，我在阅读纸质版时会放慢太多速度。

I find audio is better because it doesn't if the book is really dense, I will slow myself down too much as I'm reading it in print.

但音频会持续播放，我依然能理解内容，而不会因为写作而拖慢进度。

But audio just keeps rolling and I still get the idea, but I don't slow myself down through the writing.

所以我发现有些作者的书更适合听音频。

So I find some authors to be better for me in audio.

但我还是更喜欢读纸质书。

But my preference is to read the physical book.

在阅读过程中，我会找到一些感兴趣的段落，在段落开头和结尾分别加上括号，然后在页边画一个星号。这样，如果我只是翻阅这本书，看到星号就能轻松定位这些段落。

As I roll through, I find passages that interest me, and I put a parenthesis, open parenthesis at the beginning of the passage, close it at the end, and then I put a star in the margin so that if I just leaf through the book, I find the stars, and I can easily identify those passages.

等我读完这本书后，我会重新翻阅，把每个标记的段落拍下来，用iPhone高亮照片，然后复制粘贴到Evernote、Google文档，或者我存放这些内容的其他地方。

And then once I finish the book, I will go back through and take photos of each of those and highlight the photo on my iPhone and just copy and paste it into, like, an Evernote file or, you know, Google Doc or wherever I'm storing that stuff at.

这就是我通常的做法。

So that's my typical approach.

所以，通常如果我读一本做了很多标记的书，可能会有五十个左右的段落，最后都会集中整理到一起。

So that's how I end up with like usually if I read a book that I highlight a lot on, maybe it'll have 50 or something passages, and all those get dumped in at the end.

我得问一个跟进的问题：然后呢？

I just have to ask one follow-up to that, which is and then what?

这些笔记会被存进Evernote。

So it goes into Evernote.

很多人都是这么做的。

Now a lot of people do this.

他们会记录下这些笔记，但之后就再也没管过了。

They capture these notes, but then they never Yeah.

重新回顾它们。

Revisit them.

他们从来不会对它们做任何事。

They never do anything with them.

我不喜欢拥有，我试过一段时间。

I don't like having I I tried this for a while.

我试过，我的意思是，我也用过Evernote。

I've tried I mean Also, I've been Evernote.

我一直在做，已经很久了。

I've been well, I've been doing it for a long time.

它只是有12年历史了。

It's just it's just 12 years old.

你知道吗？

You know?

当我刚开始的时候，Notion还不存在。

Notion wasn't even around when I was getting started.

但现在我那里存了很多东西。

But, so I just have a lot of stuff in there now.

但我曾经试过一段时间，按照那本书的方法来做。

But I tried for a little while doing it based on the book.

所以每读完一本书，我就会把所有的划线内容整理到这本书的文档里。

So I would I would finish a book, and then I would put all the highlights into the book doc.

你知道吗？

You know?

于是我就把那本书的所有笔记都集中在一个地方。

And so I just have all the notes from that book in one place.

但实际情况就像你刚才说的，那些笔记就一直躺在那里，我根本不会再看。

But what happened was what you just described, which is then it would just sit there and I would never really look at it.

偶尔我会写文章，然后在Evernote里搜索关键词，找到书中的一段话，或许引用一下，但这种情况很少发生。

Occasionally, I would work on an article and I would, like, search for terms in Evernote and then find a passage from a book and maybe pull it in or something, but it was pretty rare that that would happen.

相反，我现在觉得更有用的方式是，针对我正在做的项目，建立一个专属的文档。

Instead, what I find more useful now is to have a project that I'm working on and a, a doc for the project.