媒体无视枪手真相，梅根揭露布莱克·莱弗利传票，阿德尔森受审，与马特·沃尔什、艾格勒什、格拉戈斯、霍洛威共同探讨

欢迎收听梅根·凯利秀直播，工作日中午东部时间在SiriusXM 111频道播出。大家好，我是梅根·凯利。欢迎来到梅根·凯利秀。我们即将进入重磅环节，我将爆料关于布莱克·莱弗利和本人的一些新闻。

Welcome to the Megan Kelly show live on SiriusXM channel one eleven every weekday at noon East. Hey, everyone. I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to the Megan Kelly show. We've got a big Kelly's cork coming up where I'll be breaking some news about Blake Lively and yours truly.

但首先，来看看对昨天明尼阿波利斯天主教学校新年首场弥撒上骇人枪击案的不那么令人震惊的反应。这名23岁的枪手——一个伪装成女性的跨性别者——射杀了一名8岁和一名10岁儿童，另有14名儿童和3位八旬老人受伤。奇迹般地，我是说真正的奇迹，所有伤者预计都能生还。感谢上帝。

But first, the less stunning reaction to yesterday's horrifying shooting at a Minneapolis Catholic school's first mass of the year. The 23 year old shooter, a man pretending to be a woman who identified as transgender, shot and killed an eight year old and a 10 year old. 14 other kids were wounded as were three adults who are in their eighties. All of the wounded miraculously, I mean, truly miraculously, are expected to survive. I mean, thank God.

感谢上帝。我知道我和你们一样，为那个8岁和10岁孩子的父母感到无比悲痛，愿意做任何事帮助他们。但我也非常欣慰其他受伤儿童和老人最终没有生命危险。在这种处境中，你只能努力寻找一线希望。FBI局长卡什·帕特尔表示该局正将此案作为针对天主教徒的国内恐怖主义和仇恨犯罪调查。

Thank God. I mean, I know I'm feeling as you are just incredibly so sad for the parents of that little eight year old and that little 10 year old and would do anything to help them. But I'm also so relieved that the wounds all the other children and the elderly people suffered have turned out not to be fatal. I don't you just you look for the silver linings you can find in these situations. FBI director Cash Patel says the bureau is investigating this shooting as an act of domestic terrorism and as a hate crime targeting Catholics.

而事后，明尼阿波利斯的民主党市长确保他的关注点不是保护儿童或天主教徒，而是跨性别群体。以下是昨晚他在CNN上与频频点头的亚伦·伯内特的对话。请看。

And in the aftermath, Minneapolis Democrat mayor made sure his focus was on protecting not children, not Catholics, but the trans community. Here he is talking to a nodding Aaron Burnett on CNN last night. Watch.

显然我听到了外界传播的言论和叙事，但关键在于：任何想借此机会妖魔化跨性别群体或其他群体的人，都已丧失了基本人性。我们行动的动力不应来自对任何群体的仇恨，而应来自对孩子的爱。这才是当前需要聚焦的重点——对我们孩子的爱。

Obviously, I've heard about the rhetoric and the narrative that is being pushed out, but here's the thing. Anybody that is gonna use this as an opportunity to villainize our trans community or any community has lost touch with a common humanity. We gotta be operating not out of hate for any group, but out of a love for our children. That's where the focus needs to be right now. A love for our kids.

不要把这些孩子仅仅视为'别人家的孩子'，这件惨案发生了。但如果是我们自己的孩子呢？我们会作何感受？所以我们必须为所有群体发声——当然也包括天主教群体。

Seeing these kids, not just as somebody else's kids, this horrific thing happened. But what if it was our own? How would we feel then? So, look, we need to be standing up for every community out there. A Catholic community too include, by the way.

他一无所知。根本不懂。说什么'不能出于对跨性别群体的仇恨'。这根本不是仇恨跨性别群体的问题，而是要诚实面对这个明显患有严重精神疾病的枪手的问题——他带着三把枪射杀了一群孩子。

He doesn't know anything. He doesn't know anything. Hate can't be operating out of hate for the trans community. It's not about hating the trans community. It's about being honest about what was wrong with this obviously extremely ill, mentally ill man who picked up his guns, three of them to be exact, and shot a bunch of kids.

这与仇恨无关。你怎敢试图把这变成支持LGBTQ的作秀时刻？我们必须诚实面对这个枪手的病态根源。顺便说，这正是近期多起大规模枪击案凶手的共同特征——而市长先生，你们阵营始终拒绝承认这点。这家伙多大？

It's not about hate. How dare you try to turn this into a pro LGBTQ moment? We have to get really honest about what was wrong with this shooter. And PS, it's the same thing that's been wrong with shooters in a multitude of mass shootings now, which your side, mayor, refuses to acknowledge. What is this guy?

顶多29到32岁吧？桑迪胡克枪击案时你在哪？因为我可不记得你在现场，市长先生。我们有些人当时就在现场，枪声刚停就赶到了那些家长身边。

Like, 29, 32 at most? Where were you during Sandy Hook? Because I don't remember you out there, mister mayor. Some of us were with parents. We're at these scenes moments after the gunfire went off.

你们社区确实遭遇了悲剧，但这远不止涉及你所谓对某些群体的仇恨。完全不是。这是要实话实说。看着那家伙的表演真让人火大。

You've got, yes, one terrible tragedy in your community. There it's about a lot more than your alleged hate for certain communities. It's not about that at all. It's about calling a spade a spade. It's infuriating watching that guy.

我是说，还有，哦对了，顺便提一下天主教群体。哦，就像是事后才想起来似的。对，天主教徒。是的，我们...我们意识到了。

I mean, also, like oh, and the Catholic community, by the way. Oh, like, that's an afterthought. Like, yeah, Catholics. Yeah. We're we're realized.

我们...我们清楚天主教徒是袭击目标。谢谢你点头示意。我们真心感激您屈尊承认天主教徒在此事件中成为袭击目标。我是说，居然把作为枪击案特定受害群体的天主教徒当作事后补充说明。

We we we know that. Catholics were targeted. Thanks for the the nod of the head. We really appreciate you deigning to acknowledge that Catholics have been targeted here. I mean, literally putting the group that was the targeted chosen victims of the shooting as like an afterthought.

这件事的本质在于我们对跨性别者有多刻薄。策划今天节目时，我就知道没有比马特·沃尔什更合适的开场嘉宾了。他是Daily Wire《马特·沃尔什秀》的主持人，今天来到我们现场。橄榄球赛季终于回归，PrizePicks上的激烈竞猜也再度开启。

What this is really about is how mean we are to trans people. When we were planning today's show, I knew there was nobody better to start it with than Matt Walsh. He's host of the Matt Walsh show on the Daily Wire. He's here with us today. Football's finally back, and so is the hard hitting gridiron action on PrizePicks.

新赛季开门红，首存5美元立获50美元阵容基金。PrizePicks拥有数百万会员和数十亿美元奖金池，是检验你预测能力的绝佳平台。只需选择任意运动项目的两名及以上球员，预测他们表现将高于或低于预期值，预测正确即可赢取奖金。PrizePicks已在包括加州、德州、佛罗里达和佐治亚在内的40多个州开放，凭借简明数据和用户友好政策，成为球迷们最爱的竞猜应用。

Kick off the season right and get $50 instantly in lineups when you play your first $5. With millions of members and billions of dollars awarded in winnings, Prize Picks is the place to put your takes to the test. You just pick two or more players across any sport, pick more or less on their projections, And if you're right, you could cash in. Prize Picks is available in 40 plus states, including California, Texas, Florida, and Georgia. With simple stats and user friendly policies, Prize Picks is the fan friendly app to make your picks.

橄榄球季前赛已打响，大学联赛更是火热开战，快来PrizePicks参与竞猜。立即下载PrizePicks应用，输入邀请码Meaghan，首存5美元立获50美元阵容基金。使用代码Megan在PrizePicks存入5美元即可获得50美元阵容基金——无论输赢，只要参与就保证获得这50美元。

Don't miss any of the action on Prize Picks with preseason football underway and college football already kicking off. Yay. Download the Prize Picks app and use code Meaghan and get 50 instantly in lineups when you play $5. That's code Megan on PrizePicks to get $50 instantly in lineups when you play just $5. Win or lose, you're gonna get $50 in lineups just for playing guaranteed.

PrizePicks，掌控你的赛事。部分州有参与限制，详情请访问prizepicks.com。马特，非常感谢你能来。听那家伙说话真让人火大。

PrizePicks, run your game. Must be present in certain states. Visit prizepicks.com for restrictions and details. Matt, thanks so much for being here. It's infuriating listening to that guy.

简直令人发指。

Absolutely maddening.

没错。我是说...确实如此，但你对这家伙还能有什么期待呢？别忘了，这位就是2020年在乔治·弗洛伊德金色棺材前痛哭流涕的市长雅各布·弗莱。这家伙完全是个可悲的垃圾。但你说得对，我们早该直面现实了——包括承认跨性别暴力绝非偶发事件。

Yeah. I mean, it it is, and you you expect nothing less from, from this guy. Mean, remember, this is the mayor, Jacob Fry, who wept at the golden casket of George Floyd back in 2020. So this guy is just a completely pathetic piece of garbage. But you're exactly right that it's way past time that we start being honest about about all this, and that includes the the fact that trans violence is not this is not an aberration.

要知道，媒体总在玩这种把戏，要求我们否认眼前的事实。在跨性别议题上，这种操作由来已久。但最近每当发生大规模枪击案，随着凶手信息逐渐披露，我们总发现他们使用she/her、they/them等非二元性别代词——这显然已成为这类事件的常见要素，统计数据也印证了这一点。

You know, if if it's now that of course, the media plays this game all the time where they want us to deny the reality that's in front of our face. And when it comes to transgenderism in particular, that's, of course, been the game for a long time. But it it it certainly seems as though very often these days when there's a mass shooting, and then and then we we find out a little bit more about the killer, we find out that, oh, they got the she, her pronouns, they, them, non binary, trans. It it certainly seems like that is, a big part of the story very often, and it is. And that's what the stats bear out.

另外请记住：目前没有任何政府机构建立过跨性别暴力官方数据库。或许现在该建立了，我们确实需要这样的数据库。正因如此，我们往往只在媒体不得不报道的恶性大规模枪击案中，才会发现暴力事件与跨性别者的关联。但实际上还存在许多未致死的暴力袭击案件未被曝光。

And also keep something else in mind that it's there's no official database of trans violence that any government entity keeps. Probably there should be now. Probably we need that database. But there isn't one, which only means that we we only find out about the trans connection to violence when it's one of these big, huge mass shootings that the media has to talk about because they have no choice because of the bloodshed. But there are many other cases of violence, assaults, these sorts of things where maybe nobody is killed.

这确实没有被广泛报道，尤其在全国范围内。那么这类事件与跨性别者的关联频率有多高？我们并不完全清楚。但我想强调的是，我认为问题比我们任何人意识到的都要严重得多。

It's not really reported, certainly not on the national scale. And and so how often is there a trans connection there? We don't we don't know exactly. But my only point is that I think the problem is, even worse than than any of us realize.

这完全说得通，看看如今媒体的表现——《纽约时报》整篇报道枪手，却只在指责保守派攻击其性别认同时略微提及，甚至没将其视为需要探究枪手心理异常的因素。CNN一篇题为《完全无法理解的枪击案如何发生》的文章（作者Chelsea Bailey）对枪手的性别身份只字未提。《今日美国》也完全回避了这点。感谢Real Clear Politics的Tom Bevin今天在X平台上指出的这些现象。

Makes perfect sense because you look at what's happening today in the media, and the New York Times does a whole article about the shooter. And the only mention of the gender identity is in the context of pointing out conservatives are attacking it, not even considered as something we should be looking at and trying to figure out what was wrong with this shooter's head. CNN, an article entitled how the absolutely incomprehensible shooting unfolded, by Chelsea Bailey makes no mention of the shooter's gender identity. USA Today doesn't mention the shooter's gender identity at all. Hat tip to Tom Bevin of Real Clear Politics for pointing these out on X today.

他们完全在粉饰这件事，仿佛这根本无关紧要。

It's they're completely whitewashing it like it's a nonfactor,

没错。而且他们根本不想展开讨论。顺便说，枪手是跨性别者这个事实显然具有相关性——这不是什么保守派的刁难时刻，而是非常关键的信息。

Yeah. And and they don't wanna they don't wanna have the conversation. And and by the way, the fact that the person is trans, this is obviously a relevant fact. This is not just some conservative gotcha moment. This is very relevant.

为什么相关？首先，如果有人自称跨性别者，意味着他们存在妄想症。这是个对现实基本事实（比如生物学现实中的自身性别）产生混淆的妄想症患者。我们早就知道这类人存在认知障碍。

Why is it relevant? Well, number one, if somebody identifies as trans, that means that they are delusional. This is a delusional person who is confused about a basic fact of reality, like one of the most basic facts, which biological reality, their own sex. This is someone who has a delusional mindset. We already know that.

再者，媒体多年来向跨性别群体灌输什么？他们在说：如果有人不认可你虚构的身份，那人就是威胁——是真实存在的威胁。你们常听到'跨性别种族灭绝'这种荒谬说法吧？

Also, what are trans people being told? What has the media been telling them for years now? They've been telling them that if somebody does not affirm your fake identity, then that person is a threat. They're an actual they're an actual threat to you. Trans you hear the phrase transgenocide has been used many times.

当然这完全是无稽之谈。根本不存在对跨性别者的种族灭绝，没人围捕杀害他们。但所谓'跨性别种族灭绝'指的是——像你我这样在节目中指出生物学现实存在、拒绝迎合妄想的人，居然被说成参与种族灭绝，简直荒谬绝伦。

And, of course, it's completely absurd. There's no genocide happening of trans people. No one's rounding up trans people and killing them. It's completely ridiculous. But what they mean by transgenocide is, you know, well, people like you, Megan or me, who when we go on the air and we say that biological reality exists and we're not going to affirm your delusions, we are somehow participating in a genocide, which makes no sense.

但如果你面对一个本就精神失常的妄想症患者，还告诉他们：'那些保守派、天主教徒不认可你就是在对你实施物理伤害，就是在搞种族灭绝'——这等于给暴力行为提供完美借口。副州长Peggy Flanagan甚至穿着印有'保护跨性别孩子'和刀具图案的T恤...

But if you have someone who's already mentally ill, they're already suffering from delusions, and then you you you take that person, you tell them, hey. Those people over there, conservatives, Catholics, they they're committing a genocide against you. When they when they refuse to affirm you, they're actually physically harming you. Well, now you're giving that person all the excuse they need, all the pretense they need to commit an act of violence. So this is this is you've got you've got Peggy Flanagan, the lieutenant governor, wore a shirt that said protect trans kids with, like, a knife on it.

这简直毫不掩饰。你们就是在积极煽动暴力，而他们果然照做了。

I mean, this is Yeah. This is not subtle. You are actively encouraging them to commit acts of violence, and then that's exactly what they go do.

更严重的是精神病学体系对待自称跨性别者（无论儿童或成人）的方式。这名枪手未成年时就宣称要变性，17岁申请将男性名字改为女性名。正如Miriam Grossman在你杰出的纪录片《什么是女性》中指出——她是少数诚实地处理青少年性别焦虑问题的专家——当这类人去见儿童精神科医生时，医疗体系唯一的标准就是'无条件认同'。

And then on top of that, there's the problem of the way the psychiatric system deals with anyone, child or adult, who says they're trans. And this person started saying it when they were still a minor and apparently got a name change from a male name to a female name when they were a minor. They applied at age 17. And you and I both know, including Miriam Grossman, was in your wonderful movie, What Is A Woman, she's one of the few honest brokers in the the field of dealing with this, like the trans the gender dysphoria and trans confusion amongst youth. And she pointed out in your movie and on our show and elsewhere, and then I think she's written a book now too, The the only standard when someone like this shooter goes in to see a child psychiatrist or any sort of mental health professional is to affirm.

你不能去探究这个人可能正在经历的精神崩溃，也许只是因为糟糕的童年或父母离婚而心烦意乱，谁知道呢？可能是个女孩得了厌食症。她怎么样都行。她正在被欺负。这与性别无关。

You're not allowed to explore possible psychotic breaks that the person may be experiencing, maybe just upset due to a shitty childhood or, you know, parents divorce or who knows? It could be a girl's anorexic. She's whatever. She's getting bullied. Has nothing to do with gender.

现代精神病学标准就是让你完全接受性别意识形态。结果，所有那些潜在和其他问题都得不到治疗。

The the modern psychiatric standards is you just lean into the gender ideology. And as a result, all those under underlying and other things really go untreated.

是的，没错。这就是为什么——我是说，我们可以，我认为我们可以有把握地假设，这个混蛋，这个人渣，对精神病学界、精神科医生、治疗师等等都有丰富的经验？我是说，我没有任何相关信息。但我想我们大概可以这么假设。

Yeah. Exactly. And and that's why every I mean, we we can, I think we can safely assume that this person, this scumbag had plenty of experience with the psychiatric community, psychiatrists, therapists, all the rest of it? I mean, I don't have any information about that. Think we can probably assume it.

所有那些人，我们应该知道所有这些人的名字，因为他们都对发生的事情负有相当大的责任。

And all of those people, we should have the names of all those people because they all they all are hold hold a fair amount of responsibility for for what happened.

是的。

Yes.

因为，当然，你说得完全正确，当你遇到一个人，尤其是未成年人，他们声称自己是个男孩却认为自己是女孩时，我之前说过这些人有妄想症。他们患有妄想。这在很多情况下确实如此。但是——

Because, of course, you're exactly right that when you have when you have someone come in, especially a minor, and they're claiming that it's a boy that claims he's a girl, well, I said before these people are delusional. They suffer from delusions. And that's, of course, true in many cases. But what

你

you

也可能遇到那种其实知道自己并不困惑的人。他们实际上知道自己并不是——他们并不真的认为自己是个女人，但他们出于其他原因提出这种主张。你知道吗？无论是出于某种癖好，还是对于孩子来说，可能是受到了虐待。发生了其他事情，这是他们应对的方式。

can also have is someone who kinda like knows that they're not actually confused. They actually know that they're not they don't actually like, they don't actually think they're a woman, but they're making this claim for some other reason. You know? And whether it's a fetish or in the case of a kid, it could be that kid was abused. Something else is happening and this is their way of coping with it.

但因为你必须一味地肯定，你就无法深入探究，真正开始讨论到底发生了什么。然后你把这个心理严重受扰的人，基本上就是——你在抛弃他们。是的。他们有了自己非常不健康的应对机制，就是拒绝自己的身份，假装成别人。而不是说，好吧，

But because you have to just affirm, you can't get to the bottom of that and actually start talking about what is really going on. And then you take this very disturbed person, and you're basically just you're abandoning them. Yeah. They've got their they have their very unhealthy coping coping mechanism, which is to which is to, you know, reject their own identity and and pretend to be somebody else. And rather than saying, okay.

显然这里出了大问题。我们必须找出根源才能帮助这个人。相反，你只是把他们丢给那个应对机制，某种程度上就是在等待不可避免的可怕事情发生。

Well, this clearly, there's something very wrong here. We gotta get to the bottom of it so we can help this person. Instead, you just abandon them to that coping mechanism and kinda just wait until the inevitable awful thing happens.

是的，因为在精神病学领域，试图与当事人探讨他们是否真的患有性别焦虑，还是仅仅将其作为抑郁等情绪的时髦借口，这被视为转化治疗。所以实际上不允许深入探讨这些，只能一味认同附和。大多数情况下，他们还会给患者开具危险的青春期阻断剂和跨性别激素混合处方，甚至切除健康器官，这会造成严重问题。我们尚不清楚本案是否如此。

Yeah, because it's considered conversion therapy within the psychiatric community to try to talk to that person about whether they're actually having gender dysphoria or whether this is just like something they're throwing out there as a more fashionable excuse for certain feelings they're having of depression or what have you. And so you're not allowed to really get into that stuff. You just have to affirm and go along with it. Then in most cases, they add to the mix by putting the person on a dangerous cocktail of puberty blockers and cross sex hormones and even chopping off healthy body parts, which can really cause deep problems. We don't know whether that happened in this case.

我们讨论的是这个体系有多荒谬。你提到的佩吉·弗拉纳根是明尼苏达州副州长，她和她上司蒂姆·沃尔兹在这方面的言论都错得离谱。这是她在2023年3月SAP14会议上的发言。

We're just talking about the system and how messed up it is. You mentioned Peggy Peggy Flanagan. She's the lieutenant governor of Minnesota. Her messaging has been so deeply flawed on this and wrong, same as her boss, Tim Walls. But here she is in March 2023 in SAP 14.

必须明确，这是肯定生命、挽救生命的医疗护理。当孩子向我们表明身份时，成年人的责任就是倾听并相信他们。这才是好父母应有的态度。

Because let's be clear. This is life affirming and life saving health care. When our children tell us who they are, it is our job as grown ups to listen and to believe them. That's what it means to be a good parent.

天啊。记得你节目当时报道过，我们也做了。这种应对子女性别问题的说辞简直荒谬绝伦。

Oh my god. I know you covered that on your show at the time. We did too. It was such an insane way of phrasing how you react when your child has this issue.

确实。我实在想不出——这简直是最糟糕的育儿建议。父母的责任居然是盲目相信孩子的每句话？恰恰相反...

Yeah. I I can't think of a I can't it's hard for me to imagine worse parenting advice than that. That Our job as a parent is to believe whatever your kid says. What? That if anything, it's exactly the opposite.

事实上，父母多数时候的责任正是要否定孩子那些荒唐言论。这种论调完全疯了。最让我愤怒的是，佩吉·弗拉纳根这些左派人士根本口是心非——除非他们自己精神失常，或许佩吉真是如此。

If anything, it's your job as a parent most of the time is to not accept whatever whatever crazy nonsense comes out of your kid's mouth. So that's that's total totally insane. And what really infuriates me about it when I hear people like Peggy Flanagan or any of these people on the left is that I know that they don't really believe it. They they don't really believe any of this. They don't you you would have to actually be mentally ill your yourself, which, of course, plenty of them maybe petty Flanagan is.

但所有人都心知肚明：男人就是男人，女人就是女人；孩子就是孩子，他们对世界充满认知局限；靠药物不可能把女孩变成男孩。他们清楚后果却仍为政治利益推行这些。

But but everyone at bottom knows that a man is a man and a woman is a woman. Everybody knows that children are are children, and there's a lot of things they don't understand about the world. Everyone knows that you can't just give a kid a cocktail of drugs and magically turn him from a girl into a boy. They all actually know that, and yet and they know the harm that it causes, but they do this anyway. They do it for political gain.

他们为控制权这么做。医药行业为金钱这么做。他们明知危害却仍为之，这更显其卑鄙邪恶。

They do it for control. They do it you know, if it's a pharmaceutical industry and and the medical industry, they do it for money. They do it for all these reasons knowing knowing knowing the harm that it causes, and that and that to me just makes it all the more despicable and evil.

嗯。你提到有些人可能真疯了。这让我想起内布拉斯加州的民主党参议员米凯拉·卡瓦诺——当该州通过禁止对未成年人实施变性手术的法案时（成年人自便，但孩子不该被牟利医生利用幻觉进行手术）...

Mhmm. You you mentioned that some of them genuinely might be nuts. That leads me to Nebraska Democratic state senator, Mikayla Kavanaugh, who when Nebraska passed a law saying, we're not gonna offer these procedures for minors. Like, if you wanna do this stuff to yourself as an adult, that's one thing. Minors should not be cut up by money motivated surgeons who wanna make money off of their delusions.

她在2023年STOP15会议上这样回应（内容太长无法尽述，但意思你懂的）。

And this was her response, in 2023. It's stop 15. We could be here all day. She goes on. You get it.

但他们中有些人看起来确实像真正的疯子。

But some of them truly do seem like actual nuts.

是的。我想我...确实如此。民主党里有很多疯子，但我们或许过于宽容了，甚至用'他们都是疯子'这种说法为他们开脱。因为如果一个人疯了，那就不是他的错了，对吧？

Yeah. I think I well, certainly. There's there's plenty of Democrats who are insane, but I almost think we give them too much credit or or we let them off the hook a little bit by writing them all off as insane. Because if you're insane, then it's not your fault. Right?

我的意思是，疯子的定义就是如此。即便看到那种表演后你认为这人完全疯了也情有可原。但我认为...这背后其实有策略。当他们不断重复喊某个口号时——这是左派的常用手段，他们最爱的战术之一。

I mean, that's what being insane is. And I think even in the case of I mean, you you'd be excused for seeing that performance and thinking this person's totally nuts. And yet, think I I think that that's it's it's there's a strategy, though. There's actually when they when they do the thing where they just yell the phrase over and over again, this is very common on the left. It's one of their favorite tactics.

这确实存在策略。策略就是通过尖叫来阻挠议事，因为他们没有实质论据。他们无法为这事辩护。我长期关注这个话题，至今没听到左派提出任何支持化学阉割儿童的合理论点。这种论点根本不存在。

And there's there's a strategy. The strategy is, like, we're just gonna filibuster by screaming because there's no actual argument. They can't make an argument in favor of this. They can't present I mean, I've been talking about this, of course, for a very long time, and I've yet to hear anyone on the left actually present anything resembling a coherent argument in favor of chemically castrated kids. It doesn't exist.

他们心知肚明，所以改用尖叫战术。顺便说——这不是跑题——你提到这是针对禁止儿童变性法律的反应。很多保守派会说成年人可以自主决定。但鉴于昨天的事件，我认为我们保守派需要更进一步：这不仅关乎保护儿童...

They know it. So instead of they they start screaming about it. And also, by the way, not to, you know, not to sidetrack this, but you mentioned this is in response to a law that would ban this stuff for kids. Even a lot of conservatives will say, well, when you're an adult, can do what you want. I think that part of the conversation now, especially in light of what happened yesterday and in general, I think on as conservatives, we need to move to the next step, which is that this is not just about protecting.

保护儿童确实是首要任务。幸运的是，我们在抵御性别意识形态侵害儿童方面已取得重大进展，虽然还有工作要做，但我们正在赢得这场斗争。但对我而言，这从来不是终点，因为下一步是要彻底摧毁性别转换产业。

We protecting kids is the number one priority. And, fortunately, we've we've we've made huge strides in protecting kids against gender ideology. There's still more to be done, but we we are winning on that. We are winning on it. But for me anyway, that was never gonna be the end of it, because the next step is to destroy the gender transition industry, period.

嗯。虽然理论上成年人在私人空间可以为所欲为——比如某个自认是女性的男人在家穿女装，这很怪异，但既然没人看见，我们也无法干涉。但性别转换即便对成年人而言，也不是自主行为...

Mhmm. Because it it may be true that adults in their own private life can do what they want in the privacy of of their own homes. Like, you're in your own home and if you're if you're man who identifies as a woman and in your own home, you put on a dress or something, that's weird. You shouldn't do it, but no one else can see it, and so there's nothing we can do about it. But when we talk about gender transitions, even for adults, that's not something that they're doing to themselves.

这是医生对他们实施的行为。我的观点是：医生不该被允许对任何年龄的人这么做。如果有男性来说'我觉得自己是女性'，医生不该利用这种困惑和妄想给他们阉割药物，永久伤害其身体——无论年龄。他们需要的是心理治疗，作为医疗提供者，医生应被法律强制要求提供所需的精神帮助。

That's something that a doctor is doing to them. And my point is that doctors should not be allowed to do that to anyone of any age. If someone comes to you and is a male and says, I feel like I'm a female, you you should not be allowed to take advantage of that confusion and that delusion, by giving them castration drugs and permanently physically harming their bodies no matter what their age is. What they need is psychiatric help. And as a doctor, as a medical provider, you should be legally, required to give them the psychiatric help that they need.

所以这就是我...我认为...

And so that's what I that that's that's I think

这就是...

where the

对话应该从

conversation should go from

这里开始。我同意你的观点。而且我也认为我们一直疏忽了，没有讨论这种行为有多么公然冒犯。我想起那个爱尔兰女孩Brand Dove，她写过一首精彩的诗《我不是一件连衣裙》。你知道，我不是可以随意穿戴的戏服。

here. I I agree with you. And I also think it's we've been derelict in not having the conversation about just how blatantly offensive it is. I go back to the Irish girl, Brand Dove, she goes by, and she did that amazing poem about how I am not a dress. You know, I I'm not a costume to be worn.

这与黑脸扮装的讨论相差不远。你不能这样做，因为它具有冒犯性。这对你试图模仿的目标群体是极其冒犯的。作为一个女性，我的感受就是如此。仅仅因为你涂上口红穿上裙子，并不意味着你了解身为女性的第一件事。

It's not that far afield from the blackface discussion. You you just can't do it because it's offensive. It's deeply offensive to the target group who you're pretending to be. And that as a woman, that's how I feel. Like, you don't you don't get the first thing about being a woman just because you put on lipstick and a dress.

我不是一件戏服，不是一条裙子。你这种行为很冒犯。看着你招摇过市还坚持要我称呼你为小姐，这让我感到被冒犯。我不想被迫参与其中。

And I'm not a I'm not a costume. I'm not a dress. You're offensive. Looking at you parading around and insisting I call you miss is offensive to me. I don't wanna have to participate in it.

这些人大多是在满足自己的性癖好。我不想让我的孩子参与你的性癖好，我自己也不想参与。在成人层面也有各种理由对此提出异议。我想继续讨论，因为我们还有很多问题要解决。回到那些伪装者的问题上，他们并非精神异常，而是为了标榜美德或如你所说——有些人甚至是受薪的，通过广告或直接支付给医院的形式获得捐赠。

Most of these guys are having a sexual fetish fulfilled anyway. I don't want my kid to participate in your sexual fetish nor do I wanna do it. There's all sorts of reasons to take issue with it at the adult level too. I wanna keep going because we have so many things to get through. Back to the question of the fakers, the ones who aren't nuts, but are doing it to virtue signal or do as you point out, some of these people are on the payroll, have gotten donations or in the form of ads or in the form of direct payments to their hospitals.

这是NPR的Alisa Chang昨天就这个问题采访明尼苏达州参议员Klobuchar的片段。两名儿童刚刚被枪杀，另有18名受伤者正在医院接受治疗。听听Chang女士在这场讨论中为何感到不安。Safoor。

Here's NPR's Alisa Chang doing an interview with senator Klobuchar, who's a Minnesota senator, on this issue yesterday. Two children have just been shot dead. You've got another 18 who have been wounded who are in the hospitals. And listen to what's upsetting miss Chang in this discussion. Safoor.

当然，你会发现这个行凶者，这个可怕的罪犯...没错，他怀有的是无差别仇恨。他仇视许多不同群体，并不局限于某一种意识形态。

There is, of course, the hate you're gonna find that this perpetrator, that this horrific offender that Right. He there was it was all purpose hate. Right? He hated a lot of different groups. It wasn't one ideology or another.

我们不得不就此结束。以上是明尼苏达州参议员Amy Klobuchar的发言。非常感谢您

We're gonna have to leave it there. That is senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota. You Thank very much for

抽空参与。Elsa。

taking the time. Elsa.

感谢您想到我们。谢谢。

Thank you for thinking of us. Thank you.

需要澄清一点，克洛布彻参议员将枪手称为'他'。尽管警方已确认嫌疑人身份，但目前尚不清楚此人的性别或性别认同。

And just a point of clarification, senator Klobuchar referenced the shooter as he. Although police have identified a suspect, it's still unclear at this time what that person's gender is or how they identify.

天啊，马特。

Oh my god, Matt.

是的。我其实没看过那段视频。虽然我不知为何还能对这些人感到惊讶，但那种彻底的无耻行径——居然担心要尊重一个杀害儿童的凶手的所谓性别认同。我们都清楚，他去了教堂向儿童开枪。

Yeah. I I actually had not that I hadn't seen that clip. And I I don't know how I can continue to be surprised by these people, but some somehow, just the just the total shamelessness of that and worrying about respecting the so called gender identity of a guy who just killed children. I mean, he went to a we all understand this. He went to a church and shot children.

这已经邪恶到极致了。那是人性最黑暗的深渊。而我们居然还要顾虑...顾虑什么？怕伤害那个正在地狱里焚烧的畜生的感情吗？我告诉你，比起性别认同是否被尊重，他现在有更严重的问题要面对。

So you're dealing with that's the most evil you can possibly be. That's the that is the absolute depths of of of evil and, the idea that we should be at all concerned. Because why why are we concerned? Are we concerned about about hurting his feelings as he's you know, that guy's burning in hell right now. He's got bigger problems, I can tell you that, than than than whether or not his gender identity is being respected.

这简直无耻至极

So that is just shameless and

而且他还对此充满期待。网上 manifesto 的条目写着：'我爱看孩子被枪击，爱看他们支离破碎。我想大规模杀人已经很久了。'

And was looking forward to it. I mean, manifesto online has entries that read as follows. I love when kids get shot. I love to see kids get torn apart. I've had thoughts about mass murder for a long time.

接着他说：'写这个日记让我很矛盾。我需要在不被监控名单发现的情况下宣泄想法。'这确实引出了你的观点——本该有人监视并向当局举报他。他母亲欣然参与了改名程序，还满面笑容地与这个男扮女装的人合影。

Then he says, I'm very conflicted with writing this journal. I need to get my thoughts out without getting on a watch list. And I mean, there's a real question about your point. Like, yeah, who should have been watching you and reporting you to authorities? The mother willingly participated in the name change and was all smiles and pictures of this guy trying to look like a woman.

肯定有心理健康专家参与其中。而我们现在发现他其实后悔了。《纽约邮报》今早报道他承认自己'厌倦了跨性别身份'，希望'从未给自己洗脑'。他在网上的宣言中写道：'留着长发只是我作为跨性别者最后的伪装。我厌倦了当跨性别者。'

There had to be some sort of mental health professional involved, I'm sure. And then we find out that he actually had regrets about it. The New York Post reporting this morning that he confessed he was, quote, tired of being trans and wished, quote, he never brainwashed himself in this manifesto that was posted online. Wrote, quote, I only keep the long hair because it's pretty much my last shred of being trans. I'm tired of being trans.

'真希望没给自己洗脑。现在剪头发会显得难堪，还可能因性格突变被举报。我可能会在袭击当天剪掉它。'这说明什么？

I wish I never brainwashed myself. I can't cut my hair now as it would be an embarrassing defeat, and it might be a concerning change of character that could get me reported. I will probably chop it on the day of the attack. So what does that tell us?

这再次说明，那些所谓的心理健康专家严重失职——我们完全可以推测他咨询过不少专家。这也是大规模枪击案的共同点：无论凶手是否是跨性别者，他们往往都在服用精神类药物。虽然我们尚不确定此人是否服药。

Well, I mean, it it again, it tells us, among other things, just the total dereliction of duty on the part of whatever group of so called mental health professionals he, you know, had had been consulting, and we can assume that there were plenty. I mean, this is someone who and and this and we find this very often also. This is another this is another common thread with these mass shootings. What you find is that whether this is a trans person or not, very, very often, they're on psychiatric medication. We don't know if this guy's on psychiatric medication.

我是说，听起来他极有可能确实如此，但这种情况其实非常常见。而且，这些人往往已经身处治疗体系——他们有心理医生、精神科医生，接受着全套治疗。但问题在于，我们总是事后才意识到这些，因为公众通常只在这些人犯下滔天罪行后才注意到他们。

I mean, it sounds like pretty pretty good possibility he was, but there's very often, that's the case. And, also, very often, these are people who are very much you know, they they have therapists. They have psychiatrists. They're they're in that whole world. And yet, when we and now, of course, it's with hindsight because we're only aware of these people in the public after they commit the the heinous act.

可即便如此，如果一周前让我和那人交谈五分钟，我立刻就能判断出这是个危险分子。我的意思是，屏幕里扑面而来的就是个精神异常且潜在危险的人。即使没有事后之明，我们任何人都能看出来。所以核心问题永远是：那些治疗师、咨询师当时到底在做什么？

But still, it's like if I had seen that guy a week ago and had a five minute conversation with him, I could have immediately known, like, this is a dangerous person. I mean, this is this is a disturbed and potentially dangerous person. It just it it leaps off the screen at you. Even even if you didn't have the benefit of hindsight, I think any of us could. And so the question is always, well, where where were the whatever therapist, whatever counselor, what what were what were you doing exactly?

这些治疗过程中究竟发生了什么？我认为需要更透明的信息披露。虽然隐私保护法规很重要，但政策必须调整——当这类事件发生时，公众有权知道凶手是否服用精神类药物、接受过哪些医疗专家的诊治。这些信息的公开制度需要改革。

What was happening in these sessions? And I think we need more clarity on that. And I know that there's all kinds of laws because you privacy and all that stuff is important. But I think we need some changes in policies because when this sort of thing happens, we need to know what psychiatric drugs, if any, was the person on and which medical professionals was this person consulting. We need to know these things, I think that needs to change.

manifesto里还明确提到他长期吸食大麻和电子烟。Alex Berenson曾多次撰文揭露现代大麻和电子烟的危害，他指出这是许多校园枪手的共同特征。这个疯子显然精神崩溃了，表现方式包括沉迷跨性别意识形态，同时整天吞云吐雾——manifesto里甚至描写了烟雾缭绕的画面。

One of the other things the manifesto makes clear is that he was smoking a lot of pot, vaping all the time. And Alex Berenson, who's done a lot of writing on the dangers of today's marijuana and vaping, he's raising that as a common thread that we've seen with a lot of these school shooters. So you've got basically this madman who's lost it, who's had some sort of a break. It's manifesting in a number of ways, including this trans ideology, who's smoking a bunch of dope and vaping all the time. Some of the manifesto shows like wafts of smoke coming up.

他明显在吸毒，而左派只想讨论枪支问题。他们坚称枪支才是根源，顺便说一句，他们对我们'思想与祈祷'的说辞已经厌烦透顶。

He's obviously smoking. And all the left wants to talk about, Matt, is guns. That's it. The guns are the problem. And also, by the way, they're sick and tired of our thoughts and prayers.

我会在SOT九段播放珍·莎琪的发言。

I'll give you Jen Psaki in SOT nine.

孩子们本应只操心午餐时谁能同桌吃饭、操场上找谁玩耍，放学后等着听家长说新鲜事。而今天——

All they should be hoping to do is have someone to sit with at lunch or someone to play with on the playground, and they should be waiting to hear an update when they get home. And that is

这些家长经历的根本不是这种校园生活。我们已无数次站在这里，可半数政客依然像钟摆般机械地重复着'思想与祈祷'——这就是他们全部的应对方案。各种叙事已经开始涌现了。

not what these parents of the school experience today as we have been here so many times, so many times. And yet again, like clockwork, half of the politicians in our country have little more to offer than thoughts and prayers. That is all they are offering. You're gonna start seeing narratives. You're already seeing them.

关于枪手是跨性别者的说法已经流传开来，接下来还会出现'枪手反特朗普、反犹太'、'正处于精神健康危机'等论调。这些身份标签的炒作都是为了转移焦点——他们正试图模糊真正关键的问题。

They're already out there about how the shooter was trans. You're going to see narratives about how the shooter appeared to be anti Trump and anti Semitic and clearly was in the midst of a mental health crisis. Weaponizing the shooter's identity is meant to distract from what matters. That is what they are doing, trying to distract from what matters. Here's what matters.

今天的凶手合法购买了行凶用的步枪、手枪和霰弹枪。问题就在于枪支，各位。这根本不是什么秘密。

Today's shooter bought the rifle, handgun, and shotgun they used to do what they did today legally. It's the guns, everyone. It's not really a secret.

对此有什么看法，马特？

Thoughts on it, Matt?

是的。首先，如果你想讨论枪支问题。好吧。这是一名跨性别杀手。所以我...我不确定。

Yeah. Well, I I first of all, you wanna talk about guns. Okay. So this was a trans killer. So I I don't know.

珍·萨基，你是说我们应该禁止跨性别者拥有枪支吗？你想展开这场讨论吗？什么？行啊，那我们就来谈谈这个。

Jen Psaki, are you saying that, what, we should we should stop trans identified people from owning guns? You wanna have that conversation? What? Okay. Let's have that conversation.

我认为她并非此意。关于那些'思念与祈祷'的论调——我们当然不能只停留在祈祷上。是的，这道理谁都明白。对吧？

I don't think she does. And I think this this stuff about, you know, this stuff about thoughts and prayers, it it well, we we gotta do more than just pray. Yeah. We all know that. Okay?

首先，这显然是对真实受害者的直接攻击和侮辱，正如很多人指出的那样。这些人当时在教堂祈祷，而你现在却对祈祷表现出轻蔑态度——这无异于间接侮辱那些刚遇害的孩子，让你成了彻头彻尾的卑劣人渣。

That first of all, that is obviously a a direct attack on and an insult against the the actual victims themselves, as many people have pointed out. Of course, it's true. These people were in a church. They were praying, and now here you are being dismissive and contemptuous of prayer. So, obviously, you're indirectly insulting the people, the kids who were just killed, which makes you a just an absolutely vile scumbag.

但每个基督徒也都明白：我们祈祷，相信祈祷的力量，但没人认为应该只祈祷而不作为。我们祈求上帝的怜悯与帮助，但同时也必须付诸行动。

But, also, as every Christian knows that that, yes, we we pray. We believe in the power of prayer. But no one thinks that, well, you should just pray and do nothing else. You you pray and you beseech God for his mercy and for his his his help. But then you have to also go out and do things.

说到减少这类事件，大多数保守派主张的恰恰是切实可行的措施：除了祈祷，我们还应停止对儿童实施变性干预，彻底关闭性别肯定医疗产业，追究制药公司滥用精神类药物责任。

And when it comes to to cutting down on these kinds of incidents, it just so happens that most conservatives, there's a lot there's a lot of there are a lot of act like, actual things that we want to do, that we are proposing. Yes, we should pray, but also we should stop transing the kids. Okay? Also, should shut down the gender affirmation industry entirely. Also, we should start holding the big pharmaceutical companies accountable for all these psychiatric drugs that they're putting on on that they're that they're, you know, putting all these people on.

我们还应确保全国每所学校都配备武装安保。

We should do that. Also, we should have you know, every school in the country should have armed security. I

阿门。

mean Amen.

可悲的是，现在连教堂可能也需要武装安保了。我刚才列举的四五项都是切实可行的措施，许多保守派人士也提出过相同建议。所谓'我们只会祈祷'的说法，根本是荒谬的污蔑。

Unfortunately, we're at a spot now where every church also probably needs armed security. So there's, like I don't There's four or five things I just listed, actual active things that we can do, and that many conservatives have proposed the exact same thing. So this idea that we don't wanna do anything but pray is just a ridiculous and insulting straw man.

她不愿谈论此事。她不愿讨论任何相关观点。她只想在观众面前表现得愤慨，声称问题全在于枪支，仿佛像这样的疯子就找不到其他伤害这些孩子的方式，仿佛在珍·莎琪的世界里，只要没收枪支，他们就再也不会伤害他人。这种枪支解决方案完全不切实际，永远不可能实现。

She won't talk about it. She won't talk about any of those ideas. She just wants to act exasperated in front of her audience that it's all about the guns, that a madman like this wouldn't have found an alternative way of hurting these children, and that in Jen Psaki's world, you know, you just take away the guns, then they'll they'll never hurt somebody again. The the gun solution is totally impractical. It's never happening.

即使美国民众支持并通过投票赞成，也绝无可能从美国收回4亿支枪。这是不可能完成的任务。即便做到了，大规模死亡仍会发生，因为疯子总会行疯狂之事。真正的解决方案是关注这些疯子，设法将他们与社会隔离。如果能遏制这种恶化趋势——比如你提到的打击跨性别支持者——那很好。

Even if The United States if the people wanted it and voted for it, there's no way of getting 400,000,000 guns out of The United States Of America. It's not a possible thing to do. And even if you did it, you'd still have mass death because madmen do what madmen do. The solution is to look at the madmen and figure out how to keep them away from the rest of us. If you can stop the deterioration, which is what you're talking about with the crackdown on the on the trans enablers, great.

但如果不能，我完全支持在明确这些人对社会构成威胁时将其收容治疗。至少，我们应该强化所有已知的软目标防护。已有太多证据表明学校和宗教场所极其脆弱。看看今早CNN的报道吧——连前FBI官员安德鲁·麦凯布都在...

But if you can't, I'm all for institutionalizing these people when it's clear that they're a danger to society. And at a minimum, we should be fortifying all the soft targets that we know we know they want to hit. We've now had way too much evidence that schools are vulnerable and that places of worship are vulnerable. So still you have I mean, even look. You had Andy McCabe, right, formerly of the FBI on CNN, this morning.

他正在建立关联，马特。将田纳西州纳什维尔市自称跨性别者的女孩针对基督教学校的枪击案，与昨天发生的案件联系起来。他列举了所有相似点。请注意，这可是前执法官员。现在猜猜看——他在试图找出案件脉络以协助警方防范未来威胁时，刻意忽略了什么关键因素？

And he's drawing the line, Matt, between, the shooting in Nashville, Tennessee by a girl who said she was trans, and and targeted this Christian school to this shooting that we had yesterday. And he talks about all the similarities. Okay. This is a former law enforcement official. And and see if you can guess see if you can glean what's not included on his list as he's trying to find the the seam in the story that can help law enforcement figure out who to be wary of going forward?

答案就在SAT七号片段里。

Here it is in SAT seven.

我尚未看到宣言，无法确认是否明确提及2023年纳什维尔盟约学校枪击案。但比较两起案件，存在惊人相似：凶手都是二十多岁，都选择曾就读的宗教学校为目标，都携带三件合法购买的武器，都驾车前往现场并遗留车辆，都在宣言中表达对多个族群和宗教的广泛仇恨。

Haven't seen the manifesto, so I can't say whether there are specific references to the 2023 Covenant School shooter in Nashville. But if you look at that that situation and this one, there are remarkable similarities. So both were in their twenties, both targeted religious schools that they formerly attended, both brought three weapons to the crime, both purchased those weapons legally. Both drove to the attack site and left a vehicle there. Both posted manifestos in which they raged and expressed grievance towards numerous ethnic groups and religions, you know, a real broad stroke of, of kind of anger there.

两起案件都针对幼童实施杀戮。而最关键的是——两名凶手都研究过其他大规模枪击案凶手。

Both sought to kill children, young children specifically. And I think the most important here is both were students of other mass shooters.

他压根没提跨性别因素。再举一例：前FBI探员凯瑟琳·施韦格特在MSNBC上分析凶手如何激进化的过程时，似乎差点提及性别问题，随后在SOT11片段中极力掩饰自己的措辞。

He doesn't even mention it, the trans thing. Let me just give you one more quickly. Former FBI agent, again, law enforcement official, Katherine Schweigt goes on MSNBC, talks about how the shooter became radicalized, appears to catch herself making a reference to the gender thing, and then tries to completely whitewash her own reference here in SOT 11.

（凶手）可能停止了与他人交流，开始封闭自我并改变外貌。注意——不是你们想象的那种外貌改变。根据早期报道，本案涉及生理性别为男性但以女性身份生活的人。我指的不是这种转变。

Likely stopped communicating with other people. They began to withdraw and and change their appearance. And and I don't mean change their appearance like you might, hear. I understand, at least early reporting is that we have someone, you know, who who is female and but present but became presents as female but was male. So I'm not talking about that kind of change appearance.

我指的是衣着——黑色夹克之类的装扮。周围人会开始察觉异常。目前我们对这类迹象的监测做得很不到位。

I mean, clothing, the dark, the jackets, and things like that. People begin to say, hey. What is going on with this person around me? We're not doing a good job of looking for that type of thing.

真是个骗子。彻头彻尾的骗子。她确实是指变性人那件事。她只是突然收住了话头。哦，我们还得留意那些从棕色夹克换成黑色夹克的人。

What a liar. What a liar. She's she did mean the trans thing. She just caught herself. Oh, we have to look for people changing from tan jackets into black jackets.

完全是一派胡言。马特，这算什么鬼话？她突然住嘴是因为差点说出了真相，随即意识到这话不能在MSNBC上说。而安迪·麦凯布甚至没把这列为可能考虑的因素，但左派却想谴责右派只会空想祈祷、无所作为。

That was a bunch of bullshit. What horseshit, Matt? She caught herself because she had a moment of saying what was real and then realized she couldn't say that on MSNBC. And Andy McCabe doesn't even mention it as a possible factor to be considered, but the left wants to condemn the right for thoughts and prayers and wanting to do nothing.

没错。简直荒谬至极。不过好消息是，你播放的那两段视频片段正在X平台疯传。

Yeah. It's it's completely ridiculous. The good news, though, is that well, those two clips you played. Right? They're all over X right now.

它们在社交媒体上铺天盖地。安德鲁·麦凯布可能不愿承认，但社交媒体上成千上万的人可乐意指出：'你不想承认是吧？但我要提醒你漏掉了什么。'所以好消息是，这些人想玩忽视现实的把戏，但这招已经不管用了——五年前或许还行，现在彻底失效了。

They're all over social media. And Andrew McCabe might not wanna acknowledge it, but a lot of people you know, millions of people on social media are happy to to say, oh, you don't wanna acknowledge it, but it I'll I'll let you know the one thing you forgot. Mhmm. So the good news is that this is the game these people wanna play by by ignoring the obvious reality, but it it's it's not it's not working. I mean, it it maybe it it worked like five years ago, but it's just not working anymore at all.

而且变性人议程在生活的方方面面都在溃败——政治上、文化上、州议会中、法庭上节节败退。

And and the the trans agenda in general is is losing in pretty much every facet of life. I mean, it's losing politically. It's losing culturally. It's losing in the state houses. It's losing in the courts.

最高法院也驳回了他们。'理智阵营'（我这么称呼）正在赢得这场斗争。现在看那些视频片段，简直像2021年古早时期的遗物——那时人们还小心翼翼地回避这个话题。但我们现在不再这样了。

It's losing it lost in the Supreme Court. It's losing everywhere. So Team Sanity, as I've as I've come to call it, is is is winning on this issue. And so when you when you watch even a couple of those clips, it almost feels like a relic, an ancient relic of, you know, the ancient times of 2021 when people were still kind of gingerly stepping around this issue. But we're not we're not doing that anymore.

至少在主流文化中，普通人不再避讳了。但我要提醒大家：虽然变性激进派正在失败，正因如此他们比任何时候都更危险。这些人知道自己败局已定，会不惜拉更多正常人陪葬。

At least not in out out in the broader culture, regular people aren't doing that. But so that's the good news. But what I would warn everybody and, you know, not not to not to, you know, not to be alarmist, but it's just true that, well, the trans radicals are losing, but because they're losing, I think that they've never been more dangerous than they are right now. I mean, these people are they know they're losing. They have nothing left to lose, and they know that their agenda is going down in flames.

当把走投无路的人逼到墙角时，他们要么投降认输，要么会变得极度危险。我认为我们正处在后者的时刻，必须更加警惕。

And so now I think we're getting to a point where they're gonna try to take down as many normal sane people as they can along with them. I mean, they're desperate. When you back someone into a corner and they're losing and it's out and it's gone, it's like they can either just give up and wave the white flag and say, okay, you got us. It's over. We're gonna stop.

我痛心地说，现在去教堂都要担心安保问题——如果你的教堂没有武装护卫，这就是我们国家当前的处境。

Or that is the moment when they become the most dangerous and the most desperate. And I think that's the moment that we're in right now, which is only just all the more reason to be vigilant, to be vigilant rather, be on your guard. I hate to say it, but I hate that this is the case, but it is the case that even going to church, should be caring when you go to church if your church doesn't have armed That's the place we're in right now in the country.

你说得完全正确。至少骗局被揭穿了——虽然还有'波士医生'这类人存在。多亏尼尔·戈萨奇大法官站在自由派那边，最高法院裁定变性人有权受聘于任何机构。

You're 100% right. And that is a silver lining. Like when I think about, okay, at least the jig is up. I mean, unfortunately we still have boss doc out there. And, you know, this is a Supreme Court decision, thanks to Neil Gorsuch, who sided with the Libs, to give us a mandated right amongst trans people to be hired at your organization.

所以现在你看到的是，这些受跨性别意识形态影响的人实施的一系列大规模枪击事件。然后其中一人来到你的公司，除非你有其他充分理由不雇佣他们，否则他们可能以跨性别身份为由起诉你拒绝雇佣。这种情况必须被纠正。最高法院需要重新审视这一裁决，必须予以推翻。

And so now you're looking at this. You're looking at the the series of mass shootings perpetrated by these people suffering from trans ideology. And then one comes to your place of business, and unless you have another very good reason not to hire them, they could sue you for not hiring them because of their trans status. That has to be undone. The Supreme Court must take a fresh look at that decision, and it has to be reversed.

我是说，这是个严重问题，马特，而且这条法律至今仍被视为有效法律。

I mean, it's a massive problem, Matt, and it's still sitting on the books as good law.

没错。正因如此，我说他们在美国生活的各个领域都在节节败退，事实确实如此。但斗争尚未结束，仍存在一些重大问题。即使是保护儿童免受化学阉割和残害的议题，虽然跨性别阵营接连受挫，但这并不意味着全美没有仍在实施这些行为的州。所以斗争仍在继续，但好消息是——这甚至超越了政治层面。

Yeah. Which is why which is why I say they're losing in every in every area of of American life, and they are. But it's not it's not over, and there are still some some major problems. Even the issue of of, you know, protecting kids from chemical castration and mutilation, I think it's been it's been one l after another for the trans side, but that's not mean, there there are still plenty of states in this country where that's happening to kids. So so the the the fight continues, but still I think the good news is that and this is this even goes beyond politics.

这超越了司法范畴。我认为在整体文化层面，人们已经受够了。五年前，许多善良得体的普通人可能还会勉强附和，因为他们不想显得刻薄或无礼。这显然是个重大错误，但根源在于他们本就是彬彬有礼的正常人。

It goes beyond the courts. I think that just in the culture, generally, people are just done with this. I think five years ago, a lot of normal, nice, polite people kinda went along with it because they didn't wanna be mean. They didn't wanna be rude. And I think that was certainly a massive mistake, but it was it it was it was rooted in the fact that they're normal polite people.

但现在这些人已经彻底醒悟，不会再妥协了。这种态度的转变，最终将成为钉死棺材的最后一颗钉子——

And but I think that those people now are done with it and are not gonna go along with it anymore. And, so that's that's been the real shift that ultimately is the kind of the last nail in the coffin for the

针对跨性别议题。每天你都能在X平台或其他地方看到类似言论：你投票给特朗普了吗？他是个独裁者，他在非法攫取权力等等。马特，我们差点就要面对卡玛拉·哈里斯和蒂姆·瓦尔兹掌权的局面，他们本会让这种性别意识形态的糟粕全面爆发。

the transgender. Every day you see something on X or elsewhere, like, did you vote for this on Donald Trump? He's an authoritarian. He's doing unlawful power grabs and so on and so forth. We were we were so close to having Kamala Harris and Tim Walz in there, Matt, who would have exploded this gender ideology crap all over us.

这是蒂姆·瓦尔兹在民主党全国委员会夏季会议上的发言，会议在明尼阿波利斯举行。这是他在本周一的讲话，就在事件发生前几天。他想向民主党高层传达关于本州政策及对国家走向的看法。排名前12。

This was Tim Walz at the Democrats DNC summer meeting that they're having, in Minneapolis. This is him on Monday. On Monday, a couple days before this happened, this is the message he wanted to bring to top Democrats about his state, his policies, and what he thinks should happen in this country. Top 12.

明尼苏达州是人均跨性别者安全庇护所比例最高的州。我想说的是，我们可以在讨论经济增长、儿童营养、创造就业的同时，也关注每个人的人权议题，这两者并不冲突。我们不应该将这些问题对立化，完全可以兼顾。

Minnesota ranks the highest per capita for being a safe haven for transgender individuals in Minnesota. And can I just say, we can talk about economic growth and feeding children and growing the economy and creating jobs simultaneously with talking about everybody's human rights matters, and we shouldn't be demobilizing them? You can do both.

马特，他竞选时我就报道过明尼苏达州的跨性别庇护法——如果你不确认支持孩子的性别困惑，他们可以逃往明尼苏达。计划生育协会会提供资助，第三方也可以担保。监护权可以从不支持的父母双方手中剥夺，暂时移交明尼苏达州政府，然后他们就能对你的孩子进行变性处理。这太疯狂了，但确实存在。

When when he was running, Matt, I did a whole story on the trans refuge law in Minnesota and how he if you won't confirm affirm your child's gender confusion, they can go to Minnesota. Planned Parenthood will sponsor them. You can get, like, a third party to sponsor you. And custody can be rested from the non affirming parents, both of them, and placed temporarily in the state of Minnesota where then they can trans your child. It's insane, but it's there.

这要

Thanks to Tim Walsh who tied who who signed it into law. We dodged such a bullet with this lunatic and his would be boss, Kamala Harris, who would have signed on to all of that. So it's like, I don't I really don't have a ton of time for the people who get upset about the fact that Trump wants to make cities have fewer murders when we're looking at that on the other side.

是的，是的。我是说，我也完全同意他关于城市里谋杀案减少的观点。但我们确实侥幸躲过一劫，这也说明——要知道特朗普会执政到2028年，然后还有下一场选举。尽管我多希望民主党从此被挡在白宫之外直到世界末日，但现实恐怕不会如此。

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's and I I totally agree with him about having fewer murders in the cities too. So but but also, we did dodge a major bullet, but that also speaks that that's that's you know, we gotta keep in mind that Trump is in office till 2028, then we have another election. Democrats are not gonna be as much as I would love to think that Democrats will be held out of the White House, from here until, you know, kingdom come, I don't think that's gonna be the case.

我们迟早会迎来另一位民主党总统，这意味着我们需要尽可能多地取得那些不会被下任民主党总统瞬间推翻的实质性胜利。

We're gonna end up with another Democrat president sooner than later it's gonna happen, which just means that we need as many victories as we can get that that are are also not things that can be overturned by the next Democrat president in two seconds.

说得对。

That's right.

很多

A lot

行政令确实很棒。我支持其中很多内容。但下任民主党总统可能上任后直接签署新行政令废除前朝的——所以我们需要国会行动起来，有些事必须通过立法解决。为什么他们从来...

of the executive orders are great. You know, I support a lot of these a lot of these executive orders. But the next Democrat president could get in there and just write another executive order and get rid of the last one, which which and so that means we need congress needs to step up, and we also need laws on some of this stuff. Why They're never

不肯做呢？他们...为什么没有立法？你看他们在学校体育问题上尝试过——禁止男生参加女生运动项目，但失败了。参议院连投票程序都无法启动。

gonna do it. They they Why isn't there a law? Why why isn't there You know, you saw they tried on the school's sports thing. They tried on the which keeping boys out of a girl's sports, and they failed. They couldn't get on it in the senate, so they they couldn't get a vote.

我们需要参议院60个共和党席位，加上共和党控制的众议院和白宫，才能真正推动立法。但现在这些民主党人，他们连争取七个民主党参议员支持终止辩论（以便对禁止男生参赛进行表决）都做不到。更别提那些他们认为更难通过的法案了——本应更容易通过的阻止化学阉割法案，他们反而觉得更难。

We need 60 Republican seats in the senate and a Republican house and president, and then we can actually get that done. But until then, these Democrats, they couldn't even find an additional seven Democrats, so just seven Democrat senators to say, I'll vote for cloture so we can have a vote on keeping boys out of sports. Never mind this other stuff, which they would consider even harder to pass. You know, stopping the chemical castration should be easier, but it they would consider it harder.

确实。阻止化学阉割按理说应该更容易——因为体育是一回事，但迫使民主党人公开为11岁儿童接受化学阉割辩护...这种辩论他们根本不想接招。

Yeah. Well, I think actually stopping chemical castration would yeah. It should be easier. I think I think it probably would be because it puts you know, sports are one thing, but putting Democrats in a position where they actually have stand up and defend the chemical gas chemical castration of an 11 year old, I mean, that that's not an argument. They none of them wanna talk about that.

没人愿意讨论这个。卡玛拉·哈里斯竞选总统时就刻意回避这个话题——三四年前她还整天谈论跨性别权利，挥舞跨性别旗帜。但总统竞选期间她极力避谈，因为他们根本不想面对这场对话。我们必须通过联邦层面的实际立法来解决问题。

None of them wanna have that debate. They wanna stay. There's a reason why when Kamala Harris was running for, you know, the presidency, she she did not you know, she she, you know, three, four years ago, she was talking about trans stuff all the time, trans rights, waving the trans flag. But during her presidential run, she kinda stayed as far away from it as she could because this is not a conversation they wanna have. And one way or another, that that has to be we we need we need actual laws in place at the federal level as well.

我担心的是，尽管我们现在节节胜利，但三四年后回首，这些成果可能大半已在弹指间灰飞烟灭。

Or what I'm worried about is that although we're getting all these wins, maybe three, four years from now, we're gonna look back and all that stuff or most of it has been erased in the blink of an eye.

这太可怕了。我我得给你看这段视频。某种程度上，不少媒体都在跟进这个方向。这是今早乔·斯卡伯勒的反应，他对《纽约邮报》的标题感到不满。标题写着：变性狂人明尼阿波利斯校园枪手。

It's terrifying. I I've gotta show you this clip. It's kind of where a a fair amount of the press is going with it. It was from Joe Scarborough this morning who is upset with the New York Post headline. The headline reads, transgender maniac Minneapolis school shooter.

好吧。所以他们称枪手为变性狂人。这完全没有问题。这是事实，符合事实。但这是乔·斯卡伯勒对此的反应。

Okay. So they're calling the shooter a transgender maniac. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's factual factually correct. But here's Joe Scarborough's reaction to it.

《纽约邮报》头版写着恶魔般的，然后他们说是变性狂人扫射天主教学校。你知道，他们完全可以一次又一次地说，直男白种狂人扫射天主教学校，或扫射乡村音乐演唱会，或扫射这里那里。我是说，我猜有些人会试图转移人们对正在发生的、针对我们孩子的校园、教堂及全国范围内的大规模屠杀的注意力，包括去乡村音乐演唱会的人、坐在教堂长椅上的人，浸信会教堂的人。我们可以一直列举下去。所以，再次，我猜他们可以关注这是变性人还是直男白人或别的什么。

Rev on the front of the New York Port post say say demonic, and then they it's transgender maniac shoots up Catholic school. You know, they could very easily, say time and time again, straight white maniac shoots up Catholic school or shoots up country music concert or shoots up this or shoots up that. I mean, I suppose some people will try to distract from the ongoing mass slaughters that are going on of our children in schools and churches and across the country of of people that go to country music concerts, of people who are sitting in pews at churches, at Baptist churches. And I mean, we could go on and on and on. So, again, I I I suppose they can focus, on on, whether it was, transgender or straight white male or whatever it was.

事实是，这种事发生得太频繁了。

Fact is, this is happening too much.

天啊，马特。他表现得好像变性是和‘白人’或‘黑人’一样的标签，而不伴随一系列心理健康问题。对吧？他试图暗示《邮报》是一群偏执狂，因为他们从不说直男白人冲进高中扫射。顺便说一句，他们确实这么说过。

Oh my god, Matt. He he's acting like transgender is the same kind of label as white or black and doesn't come with a whole host of mental health implications. Right? Like, he's trying to sort of suggest the post is a bunch of bigots because that's they never say straight white male goes in and shoots up a high school. By the way, yes, they do.

但无论如何，这完全忽略了我们在讨论的是精神疾病，而左翼已经让这个话题变得无法讨论。你知道，在YouTube上甚至可能因为提到这个而受罚。

But, anyway, it's it completely ignores that it this is mental illness we're talking about, which the left has made an impossibility to discuss. As you know, you could get penalized on YouTube for even saying that.

是啊。就像如果这个人被诊断为精神分裂症，那会无关紧要吗？说‘精神分裂症杀手’会奇怪吗？不，当然不会。因为那是驱动因素之一。

Yeah. Well, it's like if, if this was if this person was a diagnosed schizophrenic, would it be irrelevant? Would it be strange to say schizophrenic killer? Well, no, of course not. Because that's a driving factor.

但发生这件事的原因之一，正如你所说，是因为这种精神疾病。而变性也是一种精神疾病，直到最近之前，精神病学界多年来一直这么分类。所以这非常相关。另外，顺便说，媒体非常乐意告诉我们当白人实施暴力时，直男白人，他们非常乐意加上这个标签，即使实际上无关紧要。

But it's one of the reasons why this happened is because, to your point, because of this mental illness. And transgenderism is also a mental illness, and it was categorized that way by the psychiatric industry for many years up until relatively recently. So it is very relevant. Also, by the way, the media is really happy to tell us if when a white person commits an act of violence, straight white male, they're very happy to include that label, even where it's not it's actually not relevant. It actually doesn't have anything to do with it.

但在这个案例中

But in this case

甚至当不是白人时。记得CNN报道那个枪手吗？即使实际上不是白人。记得几周前纽约市公司办公楼外的枪手，CNN说可能是白人，但很明显是个黑人。但他们就是喜欢告诉你那是白人，不管是不是。

Even where it's not where it's not a white person. Remember CNN with that shooter? Even when it's not actually a white person. Remember CNN with that shooter outside of the New York City corporate office building a few weeks ago saying possibly white, was very clearly a black man. But, yeah, they love to tell you it's a white person, whether it is or it isn't.

明明这件事比肤色更相关，他们却偏偏只字不提。

It's just this one thing they can't mention, even though it's clearly much more relevant than skin color is.

没错。'白人是白人'这个标签不会告诉你跨性别者的关键信息——它不仅从定义上表明这个人患有精神疾病，还暗示了大量意识形态内容。跨性别本身就是一种意识形态，当然也带有强烈的左翼色彩。这是个袭击教堂的人，你能从中解读出很多信息。

Right. And white is not white doesn't tell you the thing about about trans is it not only tells you that this person has a mental illness by definition, but it tells you it it indicates a lot about ideology as well. I mean, the trans is also an ideology. It's also, of course, very left wing coded, and so this is someone who's attacking a church. And so there's a lot that you can can glean from that.

但'白人'不是意识形态标签，尽管媒体极力渲染，它也不是精神疾病。所以这个细节远没那么重要，但他们却非常乐意强调——即使如你所说，有时候这个信息根本不属实。

But white is not an ideology. It's also not a mental illness as much as the media would like to say that it is. And so that is a far less relevant detail that they still are very happy to to tell us even as you point out, even when it's even when it's not true.

我觉得很明显这个人有心理健康问题。他被塞进某个体系里，从母亲到所谓的心理咨询师，所有人都在不断肯定他的想法。按他自己的说法，他后来意识到自己根本不是跨性别者——我敢说从来没人认真探究过他为什么会产生那些念头。

I I just think it's so clear this guy had mental health problems. He was funneled into some system that probably just affirmed, affirmed, affirmed from his mother to potentially a mental health counselor. And by his own words, he didn't actually think he was trans. Later, he got to the point of realizing, what am I doing here? And I guarantee you no one had ever taken a serious look at why he was saying that.

尤其在明尼苏达州，他很可能只是被一味地肯定。这肯定是导致昨天那场大规模枪击的众多因素之一。马特·沃尔什，谢谢你抽空过来。

He was probably just affirmed, especially in the state of Minnesota. And it was one of, I'm sure, a multitude of factors that led to the mass murder we watched him commit yesterday. Matt Walsh, thank you. Thanks so much for being here.

谢谢梅根。

Thanks, Megan.

他是少数从一开始就勇敢站出来的人，切实推动了刚才提到的那些改变，我们都该感谢他。稍后是凯莉法庭时间，还有MK真实罪案的朋友们，我会带来布莱克·莱弗利的最新消息。说实话，下午总是难熬的——精力涣散...

One of the few people who has stood up from the beginning on this courageously and made a real difference in some of those changes he was just outlining, and we should all be grateful to him for it. We're coming back with Kelly's Court and our friends from MK True Crime, and I will bring you the news on Blake Lively and yours truly. Let's be honest. Afternoons can be rough. Energy fades.

食欲来袭。没错我懂。注意力完全不在线。速效解决方案是再来杯咖啡，但之后可能会心悸或失眠。

Cravings kick in. Yes. Been there. Focus goes out the window. The quick fix, another coffee, but that can lead to jitters or a crash later or you're up all night.

Peaks太阳女神抹茶是更好的选择。无论是开启一天还是重拾状态，这不仅是饮品，更能成为健康习惯。它提供稳定能量，助你专注，没有大起大落。这不是普通抹茶——

Peaks Sun Goddess Matcha is another option for you. Whether it's how the day starts or how it gets back on track, this matcha is not just a drink. It can be a better daily habit. It gives steady energy and helps you focus without the ups and downs. This is not any matcha.

这是有机典礼级抹茶，生长在日本纯净的火山土壤中，远离污染。更长的遮阴栽培带来更多营养，由茶道大师精心调配。他们对品质的追求可见一斑。口感顺滑醇厚，毫无劣质抹茶的苦涩。富含强力抗氧化剂，让你保持敏锐与稳定。

It's organic ceremonial grade and grown in Japan's pure volcanic soil far away from pollution. It's shaded longer for more nutrients and blended by tea masters. That's how serious these guys are about quality. The taste is smooth, creamy, and rich, not bitter like lower quality matcha. It packs powerful antioxidants to keep you sharp and steady.

现在，您可以终身享受高达20%的折扣，外加免费赠送的可充电搅拌器和玻璃烧杯。我们提供九十天无理由退款保证。请访问peaklife.com/megan（即piquelife.com/megan）亲自体验。再次重申，网址是Peak Life——pique,life.com/megan。

Right now, you can get up to 20% off for life, plus a free rechargeable frother and glass beaker. It's backed by a ninety day money back guarantee. So go to peaklife.com/megan. That's piquelife.com/megan to try it out for yourself. Again, that's Peak Life, pique,life.com/megan.

欢迎回到梅根·凯利秀。为您带来布莱克·莱弗利与贾斯汀·巴尔杜尼法律纠纷的惊人进展。本案中，布莱克·莱弗利指控其电影《结束是开始》的搭档贾斯汀·巴尔杜尼（同时也是该片制片人，正是他选中原著小说并策划改编）存在性骚扰和诋毁行为。巴尔杜尼反诉称莱弗利是个恶毒的霸凌者，将2024年8月电影宣传期灾难性巡演引发的负面报道不公正地归咎于他。

Welcome back to the Megan Kelly show. An extraordinary update for you in the Blake Lively, Justin Baldoni legal battle. This is a case in which Blake Lively accuses her costar from the movie It Ends With Us, Justin Baldoni, who is also the creator of this movie. He's the one who optioned the book and had the idea for it to begin with, of sexual harassment and disparagement. Baldoni cross claimed saying Lively is a nasty bully who is unfairly blaming and disparaging him for the negative press she generated with her disastrous promo tour around the release of their movie back in August 2024.

七月有消息披露，莱弗利开始向包括坎迪斯·欧文斯、佩雷斯·希尔顿乃至扎克·彼得斯等你可能从未听闻的播主在内，所有批评过她的人士发出传票。她针对十余名记者和内容创作者的行为引发言论自由风暴。现可透露，我们团队也遭到布莱克·莱弗利调查。没错，她竟试图索要我和团队所有关于她的报道中使用的保密资料。

News broke in July that Lively had begun sending subpoenas to podcasters and others who had said or written negative things about her, from Candace Owens and Perez Hilton to people you've likely never never heard of, like Zach Peters. She targeted more than a dozen journalists and online creators igniting a free speech firestorm. We can now reveal that we were among those targeted by Blake Lively. Yes. She actually tried to get the confidential and proprietary materials my team and I used for any and all stories about her.

由于布莱克·莱弗利无法接受我本人对她发自内心的厌恶，她臆测我必定卷入了巴尔杜尼所谓针对她的抹黑行动——甚至认为我长期聘用的律师（早在其代理巴尔杜尼前就与我合作）在操控我们的报道。更荒谬的是，她暗示我收取巴尔杜尼或其律师布莱恩·弗里德曼的报酬来发布反布莱克内容，要求查看所谓支付协议的全部文件。这女人的自恋程度令人咋舌——她真以为我需要收钱才批评她？醒醒吧布莱克。

Because Blake Lively was unable to fathom that yours truly had developed a genuine revulsion toward her on my own, she posited that I must have been ensnared in Baldoni's alleged ongoing smear campaign against her that his attorney, who happens also to be my own from well before his representation of Baldoni, must be controlling our coverage. In addition, she suggested that I was getting paid by Baldoni or by his lawyer, Brian Friedman, for my anti Blake coverage, demanding to see all documents reflecting this alleged agreement or payment structure. This is how narcissistic this woman is. She actually thinks I needed to get paid by Baldoni's team to say negative things about her. News flash, Blake.

这些评价完全出自我本心。别高估自己了亲爱的，是你——完完全全是你让我忍无可忍。与任何男人都无关。

I came to those conclusions totally organically. Don't give away your power, sweetheart. It was you. It was all you who made me unable to stand you. No man had anything to do with it.

我们成功抗辩了她的传票。她最终撤诉，现已错过继续骚扰我和团队的期限。抱歉啊亲爱的，下次记得加把劲。总之我们寸步不让。

We fought her subpoena and won. She backed down and has now missed the deadline to pursue her harassment of me and my team any further. Sorry, sweetheart. You might wanna try harder the next time. But in any event, we gave her absolutely nothing.

一纸文件、一条记录、半句通讯记录都没给。我绝不会允许团队内部或新闻线人的沟通内容交给第三方——更别说这个蠢货。这叫第一修正案赋予的新闻自由，她无权窥探我的新闻制作流程。友情提示：

Not one document, not one record, not one communication. In no world would I ever, ever allow my teams or my communications with each other or with our sources for our news reporting to be turned over to a third party and certainly not to this nitwit. It's called the First Amendment, freedom of the press. She has zero right to nose around in how I gather news or in how my team and I prepare for any show we do. Pro tip.

我们秉持极致公正，恪守事实，对任何公众人物（包括我们自己）都严格把关。但想获取实际通讯内容？门都没有。我是新闻工作者。

We're extremely fair. We are extremely thorough, factual, and unsparing of any public figure and, frankly, of ourselves when it comes to our own high standards. But access to our actual communications, it's a no. You cannot have them. I am a member of the press.

你就是个可悲、无能又自恋的霸凌者，我绝不会向布莱克·莱弗利之流低头。她对我团队的骚扰最终一无所获。但至今仍有许多内容创作者遭受她的霸凌。

You are a sad, pathetic, untalented, narcissistic bully, and I will never back down to the likes of black Blake Lively. Never. And her fight to harass me and my team ended in her getting nothing. Nothing. However, there are still many content creators whom we believe are actively being bullied by Blake Lively to this day.

我们有幸聘请律师让莱弗利碰壁，但她针对的大多数人没这种资源——她心知肚明。靠着瑞安·雷诺兹的酒业财富和演艺收入，这对好莱坞富豪夫妇动辄用顶级律师骚扰胆敢批评"布莱克女王"的平民。

We were in the fortunate position of being able to hire a lawyer to tell Lively to pound sand. Most of the people she's harassing do not have those resources, and she knows it. She's targeting them because she knows she can. She's richer, better connected with high powered lawyers who have nothing but time and billable hours on their hands, thanks to Ryan Reynolds' booze and acting fortunes. These two Hollywood mega millionaires think nothing of harassing powerless people on social media who have the temerity to write or speak negatively about Queen Blake.

记住这一点。下次当你看到瑞安·雷诺兹试图把自己包装成超级好人的形象时——哦，天哪——他正试图摧毁那些认为她是骗子的内容创作者的生活。他也是个恶霸。

Remember that. The next time you see Ryan Reynolds trying to pawn him himself off as the super nice guy. Oh, shucks. As he tries to blow apart the the lives of these content creators who happen to think she's a liar. He's a bully too.

因此，虽然我们《梅根·凯利秀》完全不担心布莱克·莱弗利骚扰我们的企图，但我们担忧这个丑陋恶霸试图让其他资源较少的网络创作者难堪的行为。我们真诚希望本案法官能向莱弗利及其法律团队传达一个信息：他们越界了。讽刺的是，为了证明自己并非不值得那些负面报道的讨厌恶霸小妞，布莱克·莱弗利表现得就像一个无法相信任何负面报道可能是真实的讨厌恶霸小妞。所以我要说，我最初接触此案时完全持开放态度。回看我第一次就此案采访布莱恩·弗里德曼（巴尔东尼的律师）的内容。

So while we at the Megyn Kelly Show are not worried at all about Blake Lively's attempt to harass us, we are concerned about this ugly bully's efforts to embarrass other online creators with fewer resources, and we sincerely hope the judge in this case will send a message to Lively and her legal team that they have overreached. It's ironic, of course, that in an effort to disprove that she's an unlikable bully brat who did not deserve any of the negative press she received, Blake Lively acts like an unlikable bully brat who cannot believe any of that negative press could possibly be genuine. So I will just say this. I came to this case entirely open minded. Go back and look at the first interview I ever did on this case of of Brian Friedman, who is Baldoni's lawyer.

那次采访是探究性的。我质疑了她的许多辩护理由。我们讨论了#MeToo相关的一切。我向观众强调，我对此事完全没有立场。我对她毫无成见。

It it was probing. I braced many of her defenses. We talked about the me too stuff, all of it. And I underscore to the audience that I don't have a a horse in this race at all. I had nothing against her.

直到我发现她明显编造了多少指控，并作为有十年法律从业经验和更长新闻工作经历的人得出独立结论——她是在利用#MeToo运动试图挽救自己的声誉——我才最终意识到她是个糟糕的人。然后我开始查看视频片段，特别是去年夏天那些给她带来负面报道的片段，发现我其实已经算晚加入'布莱克·莱弗利很糟糕'这个认知派对了。比如这个片段，她在记者斗胆称赞她明显怀孕的状态后，欺凌了这个毫无权力的记者。

It was not until I saw how many allegations she clearly made up and reached the independent conclusion as someone who practiced law for a decade and has been in journalism for two more that she was glomming onto the Me Too movement to try to save her reputation that I finally realized she's a terrible person. Then I started looking at clips, in particular, the clips that had generated such negative coverage of her last summer and saw that I was actually quite late to the Blake Lively is terrible party. Clips like this one where she bullied a reporter with no power after the journalist had the nerve to compliment Blake's very obviously pregnant state.

首先，恭喜你的小孕肚。

First of all, congrats on your little bump.

恭喜你的小孕肚。

Congrats on your little bump.

什么？你们喜欢穿那种衣服吗？

What? Did you guys love wearing those kind of clothes that you

是啊。

Yeah.

是啊。而且，你知道的，在数字领域工作...

Yeah. And, you know, working in digital

想要...

wants to

谈谈衣服，但我

talk about the clothes, but I

好奇他们是否会问男性关于衣服的问题。

wonder if they would ask the men about the clothes.

我会问的。我会的。

I would. I would.

是啊，不只是女性才有衣服这个话题。

Yeah. It's not just the women that that have the clothes.

我是说，我感觉我们

I mean, I feel like we're

即将展开的对话太荒谬了。那位记者其实没有怀孕，她感到被轻视并确实觉得受到了侮辱，事后她也公开谈论了此事。但布莱克·莱弗利却不能被问及那个非常明显的孕肚。

gonna get the conversation. So absurd. So that the reporter wasn't pregnant. She was belittled, and she did feel insulted, and she spoke out about it after the fact. But Blake Gladley couldn't be asked about the very obvious baby bump.

这叫做记者的本分。因为告诉你吧，当你作为记者采访某人时，如果对方身上有极其显眼的特征——无论是多个鼻环还是明显的孕肚——你就要主动提及，好让观众不再纠结于此，这样才能推进真正的交流。难道布莱克·莱弗利认为谈论时尚是侮辱或性别歧视吗？她可是不断在社交媒体上向我们推销这些。她对自己总穿的那套愚蠢的花卉主题装扮可骄傲了。

It's called being a reporter. Because let me tell you, when you're a reporter and there's something glaringly obvious about the person who you're interviewing, whether it's multiple nose rings or a large baby bump, you call attention to it to get it out of the audience's mind so then you can move forward and have a real exchange. And is it Blake Lively thinks talking about fashion is insulting or sexist? She's constantly pushing it on us on her social media. She's so proud of her stupid floral theme she's always wearing.

她被记者问到孕肚时暴怒，因为她对什么事都会发火。即便手握所有权力、金钱和随时离开采访的资本，她永远把自己当成受害者。她本可以拒绝这次采访——顺便说，这又一次搞砸了她的宣传行程。此后，布莱克·莱弗利被多人指控霸凌，其中包括曾与她合作电影《一个小忙》的副导演芭芭拉·苏兹曼。

She was pissed that she got asked about her baby bump by this reporter because she gets pissed at everything. She's always the victim even when she's the one with all the power, all the money, and all the ability to walk out of the interview. She didn't have to agree to it. By the way, she was once again effing up her promo tour. So since then, Blake Lively's been accused by many people of bullying them, including a woman named Barbara Suzman, an assistant director who worked with Lively on the set of the movie, a simple favor.

芭芭拉在网上发文称莱弗利'对片场许多人很残忍'，并补充说'很多个夜晚我都是哭着回家的，因为你拼命想取悦一个永远不满意、不断贬低你的人'。想想看：布莱克是这部电影的主演，而这位女性只是第四副导，毫无话语权。

Barbara posted online that Lively, quote, was cruel to many on that set, adding, quote, I cried my way home many nights because you try so hard to please someone who is never pleased and puts you down constantly. Think about this. Blake Lively is a star of this movie. This woman was the fourth AD. She has no power.

她在好莱坞权力链条的最底层艰难攀爬，而布莱克·莱弗利却像对待垃圾般对待她。衡量一个人品格的真正标准，在于你如何对待那些对你毫无利用价值的人——记住，是毫无价值。某位智者曾这样告诉我，这真是至理名言。

She's low, low on the totem pole. She's working her way up in Hollywood, and Blake Lively treats her like shit. The mark of one's character is how you can treat someone who can do nothing for you. Nothing for you. Somebody very wise once told me that, and it's really true.

芭芭拉声称布莱克·莱弗利对待她的方式是她‘辞去助理导演职务的原因’。虽然她在抱怨的帖子中并未直接点名布莱克·莱弗利，但后来她链接了佩雷斯·希尔顿的YouTube视频，其中他推测芭芭拉所指的正是布莱克。随后，一位在让莱弗利成名的剧集《绯闻女孩》中化名Ewood的实习生也公开表示，莱弗利在剧组中欺凌工作人员，对粉丝态度恶劣，并指出与乐于同探班粉丝合影的莉顿·梅斯特不同，莱弗利从不这样做。他是这么描述的：‘我注意到两位女主角之间的鲜明对比。’

And Barbara said Blake Lively's treatment of her was the, quote, reason I quit being an AD. And while she did not specifically name Blake Lively in her posts complaining, she later linked to a Perez Hilton YouTube post in which he surmised that Barbara was indeed talking about Blake. Then an intern who goes by the name of Ewood on the show that made Lively a star, Gossip Girl, similarly came out publicly to say that there too, Lively was a bully to staff and nasty tour fans to boot, noting that unlike Leighton Meester, who would pose with for photographs with adoring fans who came by the set, Lively never would. Here's how he put it. Quote, I noticed a stark contrast between the lead actresses.

布莱克常以玩笑为幌子表现出刻薄的霸凌行为，非常被动攻击性。而莉顿则始终对所有人友善，包括粉丝。他实际上在一次采访中重申了这些指控。

Blake often displayed mean bullying behavior disguised as jokes, very passive aggressive. On the other hand, Layton was consistently lovely to everyone, even fans. He actually gave an interview doubling down on those allegations.

问题是，我见到莉顿时她非常友好。我只是打了招呼，仅此而已。而当我向布莱克问好时，她没理我。我觉得在她眼里我就像不存在一样。

Thing is, so I saw Layton, and she was very nice. I just say hi, and that's it. And when I saw Blake, I say hi. She didn't reply to me. I think when she saw me, it was like, I'm nothing.

懂吗？她根本不愿搭理我，甚至懒得看我一眼。我觉得很奇怪，因为我并没有表现得像个狂热粉丝。我只是在完成我的工作。

You know? So she's not going to acknowledge me, you know, or even trying to look at me or anything. My thing was like, well, that's strange because I was not acting like a fan. You know? I was just, doing my job.

由于我刚和莉顿打过招呼，她的笑容和亲切让整个体验变得美好。但见到布莱克时，她一点都不友善，行为极其被动攻击性。

And because I just saw Layton before and just say hi, and she was so I don't know. Like, her smile and just she was just amazing. Like, she just made the experience better. When I saw Blake, she was just not nice. Was very passive aggressive behavior.

她与人交谈的方式很不友好。我假装无事发生，但她确实非常粗鲁。她对待周围人的态度让人只想远离——那种不欢迎任何人的姿态，你明白吗？

The way she was talking to other people, you know, it was not nice. I just pretend nothing happened and, you know but she was very rude. And just the way she was talking to people around, you know, it was just like the the kind of people just don't want to be around that kind of person. Just the way she was acting, you know, towards people, just the way she was talking to people, the way she was it she was not welcoming. You know?

与我见到莉顿时的体验有着天壤之别。

And there was like a major difference when I saw Layton.

这段内容来自Colonel Kurtz（拼写为k-u-r-t-z）的YouTube频道。或许Ewood、芭芭拉和那位怀孕的记者都是贾斯汀·巴尔东尼抹黑行动的一环，大概他们都收了钱。他们被收买了，我也被收买了——这就是她的诉讼理论？她真打算在法庭上靠这个翻盘？哦对了，还有坎迪斯·欧文斯，简直胡扯。

That was on the colonel Kurtz, k u r t z, YouTube channel. So maybe Ewood there and Barbara and the journalist with the baby bump, maybe they were all part of the Justin Baldoni smear campaign efforts, which I guess were all on the payroll. They're on the payroll, and I'm on the payroll. Is that the theory of her case? That's really what she's gonna hang her hat on in court oh, and Candace Owens, which is bullshit.

难道坎迪斯需要贾斯汀·巴尔东尼付钱才能表达观点？醒醒吧。这种说法太贬低人了，她可是聪明人。

Like, Candace needs to be paid by Justin Baldoni to have her opinions. Wake up. Right? It's so diminishing. She's smart.

这些评论布莱克的人都很聪明。鄙人脑子也还算灵光，足以看穿她是个骗子。布莱克·莱弗利就是个自恋、撒谎、霸凌的纨绔子弟——在我看来这就是真相。

These guys who are commenting on Blake are smart. Yours truly has a couple of nickels to rub together in between my ears. Smart enough to realize she's a liar. Blake Lively is a narcissistic liar bully brat. That's the truth, in my opinion.

现在我们知道她还骚扰了贾斯汀·巴尔杜尼。她威胁他说她的‘龙’——激怒瑞安·雷诺兹和泰勒·斯威夫特，她自称是‘龙之母’——会充当她的打手，这一说法显然让她失去了与泰勒的友谊，据传泰勒现在不愿与布莱克有任何瓜葛。她试图从贾斯汀手中夺取电影《我们之间的尽头》的控制权，从剪辑、服装到剧本创作等方方面面。当贾斯汀未能完全满足她的要求时，她捏造了明显虚假的指控，说他骚扰她，并煽动剧组人员反对他。

And now we know that she harassed Justin Baldoni too. She threatened her him that her dragons, rile Ryan Reynolds and Taylor Swift, she was the mother of dragons, she said, were there to be her enforcers, a claim that appears to have cost her her relationship with Taylor who now reportedly wants nothing to do with Blake. She tried to wrest control of the movie. It ends with us from Justin, from the editing to the wardrobe to the writing of the script and so on. And when he failed to comply with her demands completely and totally, she ginned up clearly fake allegations against him that he harassed her and turned the cast against him.

这就是她的所作所为。例如，她声称贾斯汀的挚友被空降来扮演产科医生角色，只为在她分娩场景中窥视她裸露的私密部位——而事实上这位莎士比亚戏剧演员已公开声明自己是获奖无数的专业演员，且莱弗利女士在拍摄时全程穿着骑行短裤。她还指控贾斯汀和联合制片人未经允许突访她的拖车，在她哺乳时围观，尽管她明确表示不愿暴露隐私。

That's what she did. She claimed his best friend, for example, was parachuted in to play the part of the OB when her character gave birth just so that he could get a look at her lady parts during the scene, which she claimed were entirely uncovered. That man, a Shakespearean actor, has since gone on the record saying he's an acclaimed actor with many credits and that miss Lively was fully covered in biker shorts for the scene in question. She claimed Justin and his co producer would stop by her trailer unexpectedly and watch her breastfeed her baby against her wishes. She didn't wanna be so exposed.

随后巴尔杜尼出示了她主动邀请他们观看哺乳的短信——这显然是她毫不介意的事。她声称那位联合制片人在片场强迫她观看色情内容，后来发现那只是杂志封面级别的静态照片：他妻子在浴缸分娩的画面，没有任何限制级内容，仅为她即将拍摄的场景提供灵感。她就是个骗子，这再明显不过。

Then Valdoni produced a text message of hers inviting them over while she was breastfeeding some something she clearly had no problem with. She claimed that that co producer subjected her to watching porn on the set. We later found out it was a still shot that could have been on the cover of any magazine of his wife doing a bathtub birth of their infant with absolutely nothing x rated about it as a motivation for the scene that she was going to do. She's a liar. It's obvious.

例子不胜枚举，但真相已昭然若揭。这又是一个自视高人一等、品行恶劣的好莱坞势利眼，狂妄到以为无人能动她分毫——就像靠起诉媒体人谋生的梅根和哈里那样。她认为凡是不崇拜她的人必定是受雇于她的敌人。听着布莱克，没人需要付我一毛钱来批评你。

We could go on, but you know the truth. This is yet another entitled, nasty, elitist, Hollywood snob who thinks she's untouchable to the point where not not unlike Meghan and Harry who have made a career themselves out of suing members of the press who write disparaging things about them. She believes that anyone who does not worship her must be on the payroll of her enemies. Well, I'm not, Blake. No one has to pay me 1 dime to say negative things about you.

我这么做是因为我深信这些事，也因为你确实糟糕透顶。现在有请MK真实犯罪节目的常驻嘉宾马克·艾格勒、马克·加里戈斯和菲尔·霍洛威——这是我们MK媒体播客网络的新节目，集结了法律界的全明星阵容，每周剖析最劲爆的法律事件。各大播客平台和YouTube均可收听，订阅请访问mktruecrime.com。伙计们，最近怎么样？

I do it because I believe them and because you really are terrible. Joining me now, Mark Eiglerc, Mark Garrigos, and Phil Holloway, all contributors to MK True Crime, our new MK Media Podcast Network show. It's a it's a show of MK True Crime, which you can download anywhere you get your podcasts, And it's got all of our legal all stars talking about the juiciest legal stories of the week. Check it out on all podcast platforms and YouTube and go to mktruecrime.com to subscribe. Hi guys, how's it going?

棒极了。梅根，不如由你来开场说说对莱弗利的真实看法？

Great. Megan, why don't you, open up and tell us how you feel about Live Life. Really.

不过梅根，听你讲述时我突然想到——事先声明，如你所知，布莱恩是你的律师，而布莱恩·弗里德曼是我最亲密的朋友之一。但让我会心一笑的是，人们不知道你如何成为布莱恩的客户。他最初代理的是你的对立方，不是你主动选择‘这是我的战友律师’这种常规路径。

But, no, the the one thing that I thought of, Megan, is you were telling this story. And in full disclosure, as you disclose, Brian is your lawyer, and Brian Friedman is I count as one of my closest friends. But one of the things that makes as I was sitting here smiling as you were ranting, that makes me smile about this is people don't realize how you came to have Brian as your lawyer. Brian started off as representing somebody adverse to you. So it's not it's not like you came to this as, oh, this is my lawyer.

明白吗？你不是那种‘愿为他赴汤蹈火’或‘不惜牺牲原则’的人。你在庭辩中见识到他的才华后当即决定：‘我不想与这个人为敌。’

You know? I'll go through wars with him, or I'm gonna I'm gonna burn my integrity for him. You recognized his talent in a depot and said, hey. I don't wanna be adverse to this guy.

没错，我欣赏他。

Yeah. I loved him.

对。我最爱这个故事——正如你所说，人们忘了你当过十年执业律师。我们初遇时你虽是新人记者，但确实在正规律所有过扎实的从业经历。

Right. And one of my favorite stories, and I love that. And the idea, to your point, the idea that somehow you're going to just flush I mean, people don't remember. You did practice law. When I first met you, you were a cub reporter, but you had practiced for ten years and were a real law you were a real lawyer at a real law firm, actually, too.

这种认为你会抛弃所有原则去当传声筒或某种影响者的想法，某种程度上我能理解你为什么感到不安。

And this idea that somehow you're gonna flush all of that to be a mouthpiece or, like, a a some kind of an influencer somewhat I get why you're disturbed.

没错。这非常侮辱人，菲尔。暗示我会——首先，我不需要贾斯汀·巴尔杜尼的钱。明白吗？我们把话说清楚。

Yeah. It's very insulting, Phil. Like to suggest that I would First of all, I don't need money from Justin Baldoni. Okay? Let's just be clear.

我不需要他的钱。我不认为他有闲钱可给，我也不需要他的钱。这对我是一种侮辱，对巴尔杜尼是侮辱，对布莱恩·弗里德曼也是侮辱。

I don't need his money. I don't think he has it to spare and I don't need his money. And it's an insult to me. It's an insult to Baldoni. It's an insult to Brian Friedman.

对坎迪斯是侮辱，对佩雷斯·希尔也是侮辱。这些人里我虽然不了解佩雷斯的处境，但我坚信坎迪斯绝不会收钱做报道。我也绝不会收钱做报道。她这是企图抹黑——用她的话说——那些不追捧她的记者们。

It's an insult to Candace. It's an insult to Perez Hill. Like, all these people I don't know Perez in his, you know, situation, but I I firmly believe Candace would never take money from somebody to do her reporting. I would never take money from somebody to do my reporting. And this is her trying to smear, to use her word, the reporters who are out there who aren't in love with her.

是啊。在我看来——我们把话说清楚——这是我的个人观点：整个诉讼闹剧很可能完全是由律师驱动的，他们从这场漫长复杂的诉讼中获取经济利益。

Yeah. I look. In my opinion, let's be very clear. I'm stating my opinion here. It this entire litigation train is probably being driven almost exclusively by the attorneys who have a financial interest in the, longevity and complexity of this of this litigation.

这就像集体诉讼案，唯一受益的就是律师。巴尔杜尼可能已被诉讼费用榨干，而她用在我看来站不住脚的性骚扰指控发起这一切。现在看到她扩大打击面，针对你这样的公众人物——正如你所说，那些对她自有判断的人——这证实了我的怀疑。听着，我和你一样。

It's almost like a class action case where the only people that benefit are the lawyers. And so, look, Baldoni is probably being bled dry by the litigation costs, and, you know, she's the ones that launched this whole thing with a, in my opinion, specious, claim of sexual harassment against him. And now to see that she's, extending this out and she's going after public figures like you and others who have, like you said, come to their own conclusions about what they want to think about her, it just confirms my suspicions. And look. I'm like you.

我对她评价极低。在这次诉讼前我对她知之甚少，但很快形成了自己的判断。我没受巴尔杜尼影响，是她在本案中的行为影响了我。这与他无关。

There I I have very low opinion of her. I I have never really known much about her until this litigation started, but it didn't take me long to reach my own conclusions. And I had I didn't wasn't influenced by Baldoni. I'm influenced by her and how he's behaving in this case. It has nothing to do with him.

说实话，如果说有谁比布莱克·莱弗利更让我无感，大概就是她丈夫瑞安·雷诺兹了。这些人对我的日常生活毫无影响。除非媒体讨论这起诉讼，否则我根本不会想到他们。整件事散发着令人不快的氛围。坦白说，我巴不得这场诉讼赶紧结束，但显然它会尽可能拖延下去。

And if and, honestly, if there's anybody that I care less about than Blake Lively, it might be her husband, Ryan Reynolds. These people have zero impact on my day to day life. I don't even think about them unless or until somebody's talking about this litigation, in the media. And so it just has this unseemly air about the whole thing. And quite frankly, I'm ready for this litigation to be done with, but, apparently, it's going to be dragged out as long as it possibly can.

没错。弗里德曼七月底八月初刚取了她的证词。马克，你以保护弱势群体闻名——至少在我看来——你会挺身相助。最让我愤怒的是，冲我来是一回事。

Yeah. Friedman just took her deposition at the end of, July or early August. Mark, you're you're known, at least to me, for defending the little guy and people who don't have a lot. You'll step in and help them. That's the thing that's really galling to me about this, is it's like one thing to come after me.

我当然有好律师。我没找布莱恩帮忙因为他已涉案，但我确实雇了律师，花了不少钱确保自己受到保护，并给了她中指。可那些刚起步的社交媒体影响者没钱请律师应对来自大律所的霸凌传票——已有不止一人在拒绝后收到强制动议。更何况，身为社交媒体影响者并不意味着你就不受第一修正案保护，而她正试图刺探消息来源。

Obviously, I've got good lawyers. I did not use Brian on this because he's already involved in this case, but I did hire a lawyer and it did cost me some money and we made sure that I was protected and that we gave her the middle finger. But there are social media influencers who are just starting out their online careers who have no money and wouldn't know the first place to call to get a lawyer who could defend them on this kind of a subpoena that comes from these powerful law firms who then are trying to bully them. More than one has gotten a motion to compel after they've said, I'm I'm not giving you this. And by the way, like, just the obvious infringement, it just because you're a social media influence influencer doesn't mean that you don't have a First Amendment protection in dealing with sourcing, which she's trying to probe at.

她想知道人们的消息来源并查看与消息人士的通信记录。这种越界行为，以及其中体现的霸凌本质，实在令人反感。

She wants to know people's sources and see communications with sources. Just the overreach, and again, the bullying nature of it is offensive.

这正属于此类情况。我很高兴你提到——如果有人打电话给我说他们没钱，我会考虑免费协助，因为这种行为确实令人不齿。不过目前我还没达到你们那种程度的感受。我不会单独评判这些人，毕竟我根本不认识他们。

This would be one of those cases. I'm glad you brought it up that I would say if somebody called me, they didn't have the money, would consider assisting them for free because it is distasteful. Now, I don't feel the same way you guys do as of yet. I don't judge these people individually. I don't know them at all.

我也并不完全清楚她指控内容的实质真假。但可以告诉你们的是，她提出的某些指控，我们节目已多次讨论过——那些主张往往缺乏证据支撑。就像加里戈斯、我和菲尔在刑事领域常做的，你只需要制造合理怀疑即可。我认为没必要逐条反驳她的所有指控，关键看其中几项是否站得住脚。

I also do not know fully the merits of what she's alleging or not. I can tell you, however, that some of the things that she did allege, we've discussed on this program a number of times, how it's not necessarily supported by the evidence. And that all you need to do, like Garrigos and I do and Phil does in the criminal arena, is create reasonable doubt. I don't know that you need to take every single thing that she's alleging and disprove it. A couple of things are clear or they're not.

你们会有拍摄期间的现场录像来推翻她的部分指控。事实上我们节目已经这么做过。所以从法律角度，我担心的是这些指控缺乏实质证据支持。

You'll have the footage of what occurred during shoots to undermine some of the things that she's alleging. And I think we've already done that on this show. So my concern legally is that what's being alleged isn't necessarily supported by the evidence.

最后一点说完我们就继续。马克·加里戈斯，你代理过多少公众人物？当你成名后，人们自然会写些负面评价——这是职业特性使然。但像这样四处出击，骚扰那些——恕我直言——粉丝不足40人的底层网红，通过法庭传票恐吓他们闭嘴，简直小气到极点，让我不禁联想到哈里梅根夫妇的做法。

Final point, and then I want to move on. Mark Garrigos, how many public figures have you represented? When you are famous, people are going to write and think and feel negative things about you. It comes with the job, the the nerve. I mean, in this way, it really didn't remind me of Harry and Meghan to try to go around whack a mole and harass, like, these and I don't mean this insultingly, but, like, low level social media influencers, some of whom had under 40 followers, by dragging them into court to try to intimidate them after into not saying negative things about you is as petty as it gets.

真正的明星都明白这个道理，绝不会妄想用这种方式威胁媒体，企图让他们今后不敢报道。

The true stars know this and would never dream of bothering the press in this manner to try to scare them into not saying anything about the star in the future.

你说这个真有意思，我一直在思考这个案子。听菲尔谈到律师时，我觉得这更像是公关操盘而非律师主导——我这么说带贬义，因为在我看来公关人员比侵权律师更恶劣。本案的问题正如你所说：这些当事人玻璃心，完全不懂我常告诫客户的——只要低调96小时，自然会有更蠢的人吸引火力。

So funny you say that because I've been thinking about this case. And when I heard Phil talking about the lawyers, I don't think this is as much lawyer driven as PR flack driven, and I mean that in a negative sense because PR flacks, I think, are one of the the they're worse than PI lawyers. So the the problem with this case and what's going on here is precisely what you've said. You've got people who are have very thin skin, don't understand what I tell most of my clients. Just keep your head down for ninety six hours, and somebody else is gonna do something more stupid, and nobody's gonna did.

黑子永远在喷，随他们去。除非某条言论形成规模效应产生实质影响——那时你自然能判断何时该出手。但眼下这种操作，如你所说，纯粹是公关人员无聊算计的产物，律师反而没那么大责任。

And so just haters are gonna hate. Forget about it. You don't need to engage unless and until somebody gets, you know, somebody gets traction and there's you know when that happens. You understand when there's a critical mass, and then you take action. But, otherwise, this is so petty, to your point, and it's so driven by PR people and their kind of nonsense calculations that that to me is what's driving this and not so much the lawyers.

梅根，我能提个问题平衡下观点吗？你能否确定这些批评者都没收钱？如果不确定，她的律师难道没有义务调查——未必是你，但其他人——看看是否存在证据支持他们的指控？

Megan, can I ask you a question? Just to keep it balanced. Okay. At the risk of anybody are yelling at you certain that nobody was paid for their criticism? And if you're not certain, don't her lawyers have an obligation to explore and potentially not necessarily you, but others and see whether there's any evidence that corroborates this was what they alleged.

不，因为这根本是无的放矢。如果他们掌握线索或有人提供情报，那另当别论。

No, because it's throwing darts at a board. It'd be one thing if they had a basis for it. Someone gave them a tip.

嗯，这就是我的问题。

Well, that's my question.

不，据我所知，这毫无根据。完全没有善意基础来选举这个。说得对。你得有个线索，比如，嘿，我听说乔·施莫因为巴尔东尼的事情收钱了——就我所知，我一直关注这方面的报道，甚至没有一丝这样的指控。马克，你继续。

No, as far as I know, there's zero basis for this. There's zero good faith basis to elect this. Fair enough. You'd have to have a tip, you know, like, Hey, I heard that, you know, Joe Schmo is getting paid by Baldoni for the I don't, as far as I am aware, and I've been following the coverage of this, there's not even a hint of an allegation along those lines. Go ahead, Mark.

我正想说，顺便提一句，马克，这很令人沮丧。你知道在刑事案件中，有多少次我想突破消息来源的批评，因为我知道是执法部门在搞鬼，但你做不到。这就是现实。那是一堵墙。就这样。

I was just gonna say and by the way, Mark, the it's a frustration. Do you know how many times in a criminal defense case I wanted to pierce source criticism because I know that it's law enforcement who's doing it, but you can't do it. It's there. It's a wall. That's it.

抱歉。

Sorry.

那么重点已经说清楚了。如果没有善意基础相信某人收了钱，是的，即使你——

That's Then the point's been made. If there's no good faith basis to believe that someone's been paid, yeah, Even you can

如果有，你也无能为力。

if there is, there's nothing you can do.

不，因为我们是记者。就像她想要——你知道，每当我准备节目时，我会收到一个资料包。里面有很多信息，非常详尽。我的团队会翻阅一份又一份文件，试图浓缩内容，以便我们能有序地进行节目。

No, because we're reporters. Like, she wanted all you know, whenever I get ready for a show, when I get ready for the show, right, I get a packet. It's got a bunch of information. It's very thorough and detailed. My team goes through document after document to try to condense it so that we can do an orderly segment.

你们也知道，如果是法律相关的节目，我们通常也会把资料给律师，这样你们就能掌握我所知道的所有事实背景。而且——我为此感到自豪。我——很少有人为他们的新闻工作做这么充分的准备。

And you guys know because when it's a legal segment, we'll usually give it to the lawyers too, so you have all the factual background I have. And it's I would I mean, I'm proud of it. I've I very few people are this thorough in their preparation for their new ship.

做得不错。内容相当长。是的。

Good stuff. Pretty lengthy. Yeah.

确实如此。所以我们非常认真对待，并努力保持公正。

It is. So we we're very serious about it and we try to make it fair.

有点太长了。超出

Little too lengthy. Out of

我这么多年来做过的所有节目中，你们的资料包确实是最棒的。而且我

every show that I've ever done over whatever number of years, your packets are Yes. Way the best. And I

认为任何人都会同意这一点。

think anybody would agree with that.

我是说，谢谢你。

I mean, I Thank you.

嗯，它们无疑是最厚的，也是最好的。

Well, they're certainly the thickest, and they're the best too.

是啊。

Yeah.

但我的意思是，好吧。现在如果她基本上想要的是任何我谈论她的片段，比如我对布莱恩·弗里德曼的采访之类的，她想要一切。她想要我和我团队之间的邮件。她想要简报或资料包。她简直痴心妄想。

So but my point is simply like, okay. So now if if what she basically wanted was for any segment that in which I spoke about her, like my interviews of Brian Friedman or what have you, she wanted everything. She wanted the emails between me and my team. She wanted the briefs or the the package. She like, hell no.

资料包的草稿。在我的团队里，你知道，我们关于进展的讨论，绝对不可能。这个女人居然以为我会交出这些或者允许我的团队交出这些，真是厚颜无耻。这正显示出她作为好莱坞明星的傲慢。你知道吗？你现在遇到对手了，亲爱的，因为我会和你斗到底。

The drafts of the package. In my team, you know, our discussions about how it went, absolutely not the nerve of this woman to think that I would ever turn that over or allow my team to turn it over. It just shows you the hubris that comes from being, like, this Hollywood star. Like, you know what? You're up against it now, sweetheart, because I will fight you.

我会战斗。我会花大把的钱。花大把的钱和你斗，把你变成输家，这对我来说是一种乐趣，而事实也正是如此。好了，继续。

I will fight. I'll spend tons of money. It'll be my pleasure to spend tons of money fighting you and turning you into a loser, which is what happened here. Okay. Moving on.

布莱恩·科伯格案在过去一周有一些惊人的发现，包括警察接到911报警后赶到国王路房屋时佩戴的执法记录仪。你还记得，报警的是幸存室友的朋友。幸存室友是贝瑟妮·芬克和迪伦·莫滕森。她们叫了一个朋友过来，他和另一个朋友一起发现了尸体，并把两个女孩带了出来。然后警察戴着执法记录仪出现了。

The Brian Kolberger cases had some extraordinary reveals in the past week, including the body cam worn by the officers when they showed up at the King Roadhouse right after they got called, nine 11 got called by, you recall, was the friend of, the surviving roommate. The surviving roommates were Bethany Funk and Dylan Mortensen. They called a friend. He came over with, his other friend, and they discovered the bodies and got the two girls out. And then the cops showed up wearing body cam.

这是我们首次看到本案关键人物之一迪伦·莫滕森，她是唯一亲眼见过凶手的人——根据凶手布莱恩·科伯格的自供，就在他实施谋杀后不久，当他正走出他们的房子时，她第四次打开了卧室门，与他正面相遇，而他继续离开了。正是她描述凶手有浓密眉毛、体型特征，并戴着某种面罩。现在她在镜头前接受采访，而她时隔八小时才报警的行为引发了巨大争议。以下是她在Sop 33节目中与警方的对话。

And for the first time, we see one of the main people in this case, Dylan Mortensen, who's the only one who laid eyes on the killer, who we now know as Brian Kohlberger by his own admission. Moments after he committed the murders, he was walking out of their house, and she opened her bedroom door for, I think, the fourth time and laid eyes right on him, and he kept going. But she was the one who said he had bushy eyebrows, described his build, and that he was wearing some sort of a mask. So here she is on camera, and then she did not call the cops for another eight hours, which became very controversial. Here she is on camera talking to the cops in Sop 33.

你最初记得看到了什么？我记得当时在房间里正准备睡觉，听到凯莉——我的前女友——我只听见她上楼的声音。我想着好吧，现在可以睡了因为她上楼了。

What do you remember seeing when it started? I remember, I was in my room, and I was trying to go to bed, and I heard Kaylee, who, ex girlfriend. All I heard was I heard heard go upstairs. Like, okay. I'm gonna go to sleep now because she's going upstairs.

还有谁上楼了？凯莉和狗狗墨菲。接着我听到她上楼时突然尖叫着跑下来，因为她看见了什么人。我很确定她是这么说的。

Also who go upstairs? Kaylee and the dog Murphy. And then also I heard her walking up. I heard her scream, and she ran downstairs because she saw someone. That's what I'm pretty sure she said.

她喊着'有人在这里'，尖叫着冲下楼。我喊着她的名字跳起来锁门，因为太害怕了。然后我听见浴室有人声，听见她在哭，还有个男的说'你会没事的，我来帮你'。我不停喊她名字，但没人应答。

She's someone's here, and she screamed and just ran downstairs. And I called for her name, I jumped up and locked my door because I was so scared. And then and I heard someone in the bathroom, and I heard her crying, and I heard some guy say that you're gonna be okay. I'm gonna help you. And I kept calling her name, but she wasn't answering.

后来我短暂开了下门，看见那个男人——个子不算特别高，但全身黑衣戴着面具，遮住了前额和嘴。我立刻锁门求救，完全不知所措。这发生在...

And then I opened the door for a second, and I saw this guy, and he was not insanely tall, but he's wearing all black and, like, this mask, which is covering his forehead and his mouth. And I locked the door, and I called, and I didn't know what to do. This was this was at

凌晨四点？

4AM?

对，凌晨四点。然后我就跑下楼...你是从那里离开的？我离开房间跑到楼下有白色百叶窗的那个房间。

4AM. Yes. Okay. And so I just ran down And you left at you left here? I left my room down to and she's got one with the white blinds at the very bottom.

我们躲进去锁上门，没太当回事。想着莫斯科这地方能出什么事，就试着继续睡觉。醒来后发现所有室友都没起床，这太奇怪了。

K. I ran down there and we talked and I just we just locked the door. We didn't think anything of it. We're like, nothing happens in Moscow, so we just, like, try to go to bed. And then we woke up, and it was weird because none of our roommates were up.

我们给所有人都打了电话，就是叫不醒他们。感觉太不对劲了，就叫她过来看看，结果就发现了这一切。

And we called all of them, like, we're not waking up. And so mean, like, this is weird. So I called and her to come over, and then that's all this happened.

菲尔·霍洛威，最让我震惊的是她当时的危险意识远比警方 affidavit 文件描述的强烈——那份文件让人以为她看到陌生人后直接吓呆，僵住了八小时才报警。澄清一下，我不是在指责迪伦·莫滕森，这可怜的女孩经历了地狱。但令我震惊的是她全程处于极度恐惧中，却直到次日中午才报警，而谋杀与遭遇都发生在凌晨四点刚过。

Phil Holloway, the thing that jumped out at me in that was how much more aware she was of the danger than we were led to believe by the police affidavit, you know, which made it sound like frozen frozen shock phase upon seeing someone in the house, then kinda went catatonic for eight hours, then called police. I'm not blaming Dylan Mortensen, to be clear. This poor girl's been through hell. But it was shocking to me to see how fearful she was the whole time and yet didn't call cops until noon the next day, and the murders and the encounter happened right after 4AM.

是的。那段视频和其他一些画面，可以说是我执业生涯中见过最令人揪心的执法记录仪影像。我相信在场的马克们和你梅根也一样，我们都不是第一次看警用随身摄像头拍下的内容，但这次的材料如此震撼，因为它淋漓尽致地展现了整个案件巨大的悲剧性。对于直到今天下午还不知情的人来说，我们现在知道的是布莱恩·科伯格辩护团队主动向检方提出认罪协议——以被告认罪换取撤销死刑。检方当然接受了科伯格的提议，这就是目前的进展。

Yeah. That that video and the others are, you know, some of the most gut wrenching body camera videos that that I've ever seen in my practice. I and I'm sure that both Mark's here as well as you, Megan, none of us are strangers to looking at police body camera video, but this stuff is so, so compelling because it illustrates the just enormous sadness of the of the whole case. And for anyone who's been living under a rock until this afternoon, what we now know, of course, is that Brian Koberger's defense team, they're the ones that made a plea offer to the prosecutor to take the death penalty off the table in exchange for a guilty plea. And, of course, the prosecutor accepted Koehberger's offer, and that's where we are.

难怪他要认罪，因为他清楚当陪审团看到这些和其他极具冲击力的证据时，会像我此刻一样产生强烈情绪反应——任何有良知的人目睹这类暴行都会如此。这正说明了本案彻头彻尾的邪恶本质。但我始终想不通——虽然这么说可能显得冷酷——为什么死刑选项会被排除？

No wonder he plead guilty because he knew that when a jury saw that and some of the other very compelling stuff, they would have the emotional reaction that I know I'm having, and I think most people who have a soul have, when they see this kind of thing. And it it just illustrates how, you know, the the just the utter evilness of the case. And I I keep going back, and I hate to be a devil. Like I keep going back to why why is the death penalty off the table?

但我必须说，我丝毫不认为迪伦·莫滕森对这起罪行负有责任。那四位受害者当时已无生还可能，即使她早五分钟报警，恐怕也改变不了结局。

But I don't know. I I again, I don't blame Dylan Mortensen even one bit for this crime or anything. They they were not savable. The four victims were not savable. If she had called 911, you know, five minutes after, it doesn't seem like they would have been saved.

他们遭受了极端残忍的袭击。但这与警方 affidavit 中的描述存在某种矛盾，加里戈斯，我始终无法理解这种差异。

They were so extremely attacked and and brutalized. But it is at odds somewhat, Garrigos, with what we read in the police affidavit. Like, I can't kinda get past the disparity.

这是个很好的切入点，但我觉得这反而印证并强化了我常在另一个语境中强调的观点：根本不存在标准反应模板。事后当然可以分析说她当时吓呆了，或者说他们没意识到严重性，等意识到时才会有情绪爆发——但这些都是马后炮。

Well, you know, it's a really good point, but it also, I think, clarifies and amplifies something that I've always argued in a different context. There is no playbook. There is no way that you are that you can say people should react. You can have now a you can look at this after the fact, and you can say, she was shell shocked or they were they they didn't understand. And when the enormity of it kind of clicked, that then there was that emotional reaction.

每当有人指责当事人反应不当时——我自己就代理过这样的客户——我的反驳永远是：你根本不知道当时他们脑海里经历着什么，也不知道他们如何消化那个瞬间。这个道理适用于几乎所有情况，因为面对相同刺激时，每个人的反应本质上都是独特的。

That's always been when people point to somebody, and I've been on the receiving end of a client who didn't act right, I always my retort is, I don't know how you're supposed to act. I don't know what was going through their minds at the point and how they had grappled with it, and it works for virtually everybody. Nobody You nobody reacts the same way at any to any same stimuli.

你这里指的是斯科特·彼得森吧？我记得我们讨论过这个案例

You refer there to Scott Peterson, I assume, because we've discussed that, I know you say

梅根，我其实没特指他。不过...

you I was not thinking I was not thinking that, Megan. But but

但这个道理同样适用于他，我

It also applies to him, I

想你会这么说。我知道

think you'd say. I knew

你会默认那样做。

you would default to that.

好的，等等。我想给你看另一段视频，然后再让你戴上眼镜看。这里主要是警方在SOT 35中采访迪伦·莫滕森的内容。

Okay. Wait. I wanna show you another clip, and then I'll bring you in eyeglass. Here, is more of the police interviewing Dylan Mortensen in SOT 35.

我听到她尖叫着跑上楼，跑得飞快，她说有人在这里。然后我听到默西在狂吠。接着我听到她进了浴室，我记得她在抽泣。我还听到一个陌生男人的声音说‘你会没事的’。

I heard her scream and run, like, run as fast as she could upstairs, and she said someone's here. And then I heard Mercy barking a lot. Okay. And then I heard her go into the I think it was the bathroom, and I remember her sobbing. And I just remember hearing this guy's voice, and I didn't recognize saying, you're gonna be okay.

他说‘我来帮你’。但那种语气...我不知道怎么形容，不是友善的方式，而是很奇怪，语调很诡异。于是我打开门查看，就在这时我看到那个男人经过。

I'm gonna help you. But it wasn't, like I don't know how to explain it. Like, it wasn't in, like, a nice way. It was, a weird way, like, a weird tone. So then I opened up the door to look, and that's when I saw the guy pass by.

他看了我一眼，但既没有朝我走来也没说话，这让我非常困惑。我不明白为什么。我确信他是从侧门离开的。后来我打电话时她说可能是火灾或烟花——我们当时听到一声巨响，还看到了闪光。

He looked at me, but he didn't come towards me or say anything, which was really confusing to me. I don't I don't understand that. And I'm pretty sure he went out the side door. And then I called and said she thought maybe there was a fire or, like, a firework. We didn't know we heard this she heard this loud noise, there was a light, I guess.

于是我打电话给她说‘我需要来你房间’，因为只有她还在回应我。我跑下楼时停了一下，看到扎娜昏迷着，还以为她只是睡着了。我当时脑子很乱就没多想，进房间后我们就睡着了。

And that's when I called and I told her, can I I need to come to your room because she was the only one that was answering me? So I just ran down there. And for a second, I stopped, and I saw Zana passed out, and I thought maybe she was just, like, sleeping or something. I didn't think anything because I was so out of it. And I went into room, and we just fell asleep.

马克·艾格拉什，这里信息量很大：她听到尖叫，听到室友的哭声，看到屋里有个戴面具的陌生男人。

Okay. So there's a lot in there, Mark Eiglarsh, including she heard screaming. She heard one of her roommates scream. She heard sobbing. She saw that there was a strange man in the home wearing a mask.

她给另一个幸存的室友贝瑟妮打电话——名字被消音了——她害怕到打电话求助，对方说‘我好像看到屋里有什么像烟花’。然后她就看到遇袭后的扎娜倒在地上。

She called the other roommate, they blank out the name there, but she's saying Bethany, the other surviving roommate. She called her. She was scared enough. She called the other surviving roommate who said, maybe I thought I saw like a firework inside. And then she saw Zana down post attack.

她说以为扎娜是昏过去了，或者她自己当时也神志不清。梅根，我实在想不通——听到室友尖叫哭泣，看到有人倒地，为什么没有立即报警？我不是在指责，只是真的无法理解...

She said she thought she was passed out or that she, Dylan, was out of it. I guess I just don't I still wrestle with how. How could you hear your roommates screaming and sobbing and see one down and not call sooner? I'm not blaming. I'm just genuinely Megan,

首先我同意菲尔的观点，如果案件进入审判阶段，这本来会是个强有力的证人——虽然结果难料。但作为三个孩子的父亲（一个刚大学毕业，两个在读大学），我分析时首先想到：这可能是我的女儿。

okay. So first I agree with Phil. This would have been a compelling witness if this went to trial and who knows what would have happened there. But I start the analysis with this could be my daughter. I have three kids, one just graduated from college, two are in college.

所以这可能是我的女儿。我的女儿可能会出现在梅根·凯利的节目和所有这些电视网上，现在被你们所有人分析，用你们自以为在那种情况下会采取的行动来替代。你们是出于好意，但我很清楚，如果这是我的女儿或这个特定的女孩，她也是出于好意。她在那一刻以她的认知水平尽了最大努力。就像格尔戈说的，'没有典型的应对方式。

So this could be my daughter. And so my daughter could be on Megan Kelly's show and all these networks and now being analyzed by all of you, substituting what you think you would have done in that scenario. And you're well intended, but I sure know if this is my daughter or this girl in particular, she's well intended. And she did the best she could at her level of awareness at that moment. And just like Gergo said, 's no typical way to act.

作为一名辩护律师、一位父亲、一个普通人，持续听到人们说他们本应该这样做，他们本可以那样做，却从未真正了解他们经历了什么，或者从未置身于那种令人憎恶的场景中——你生命中最糟糕的时刻被执法部门审问——这确实很有问题。我赞扬她有勇气回答问题协助调查，她的所作所为没有任何恶意。

It's really problematic as a defense lawyer, as a father, as a human being to continue to hear people say, well, they should have done this. They could have done this without ever really hearing what they were going through and or ever being in that particular abhorrent scenario, the worst moment of your life being questioned by law enforcement. I praise her for having the courage to answer the questions to help out with this investigation, and nothing that she did was nefarious in any way.

但是什么什么

But what what

关于——暗示这是斯科特·彼得森的恶意行为。没人说这是恶意的。所以你可以收起你的愤慨和愤怒。没人这么认为。

about- Suggested it was. Scott Peterson's nefarious. No one's suggesting it's nefarious. So you can save your umbrage and outrage. No one's suggesting it is.

这里有个非常奇怪的情况：她当时比警方在宣誓书中向我们透露的要更加不安，受到的伤害也大得多。她对房屋内存在危险的意识程度远超我们此前被告知的。

There's a very odd situation here where she was way more upset and she hurt a a lot more than the police had revealed to us in that affidavit. She was much more aware that there was danger in the house than we've ever been told before.

那么你认为是谁

So who do you

梅根，你觉得是谁？

think it was, Megan?

提出这个问题很合理：为什么会这样？为什么警方没有透露更多信息？为什么他们试图不让公众知道这些？我要告诉你这造成了什么后果。这不是梅根·凯利的理论，我也不认同。

It's a fair question question to say, why is that? Why didn't the cops reveal more of that? Why did they try to keep that out of the public eye? And I'll tell you what that has done. This is not a Megan Kelly theory nor do I subscribe to it.

但如果你花三十秒在网上搜索她的名字，会发现半个互联网都认为她知道得更多，她虽然没有参与，但比之前披露的了解得更多。我不这么认为，但警方没有向我们透露任何这些确实很奇怪。现在案件结束后我们才得知她听到了尖叫和啜泣然后逃跑等等。继续说吧，菲尔。

But you take thirty seconds and Google her name online, you've got half the Internet thinking she knew more, that she's she wasn't in on it, but that she knew more about it than was previously revealed. I don't believe that, but I do think it's odd that the cops did not disclose any of that to us. And now we learn when the case is all over that she heard screaming and sobbing and ran for it and all that. Go ahead, Phil.

制作你的警方报告通常——我是说，我整个职业生涯中从未见过一份报告包含了所有应该包含的内容。另一方面，当我戴上前警官的帽子时，有时我不想把某些内容写进书面陈述里，因为我知道这会成为案件卷宗的一部分

Make your Police police reports are usually I mean, they're I've never seen one in my entire career that had everything that should have been in there in there. And on the other hand, as a when I put my former police officer hat on, sometimes I don't wanna put things in a written narrative that I know is gonna be part of the larger case file because

我不认为我是

I don't think I'm

会把这个公之于众。

gonna give that to the public.

我接受这一点，但我认为他们没有把这一点放进去是因为这会让迪伦看起来不太好。因为他们知道人们会说她听到了尖叫，听到了啜泣，还看到一个xanachronodal倒在地上。她害怕得足以跑到另一个室友的房间，但他们仍然八个小时没有拨打911。这很奇怪。

I accept that, but I think they didn't put it in there because it doesn't make Dylan look very good. Because they they knew that people would say she was she heard screaming, she heard sobbing, and she saw a xanachronodal down on the floor. And she was scared enough, and then she laid eyes on an intruder. She was scared enough to run to the other room roommate's room, and they still didn't call 911 for eight hours. It's odd.

我们有权质疑这种情况是如何发生的。这并不意味着我在说她与此事有任何关系。这只是这个案件中刚刚揭露的一个非常奇怪的事情，我们一直在密切关注这个案件。所以我不会为讨论它而道歉。好吧。

We are allowed to ask questions about how that could happen. It doesn't mean I'm certainly not saying she had anything to do with it. It's a very odd thing that's just been revealed about this case, and we've been covering this case closely. So I make no apologies for discussing it. Alright.

我们要继续了，是的，继续吧。

We're gonna move on to the yeah. Go ahead.

我只想说，我认为你们两个

I'm just gonna say, I think both of you

都是对的。

are right.

我认为菲尔是对的，从警察的角度来看，他们不会放一些会削弱她立场的东西进去。而从你的角度来看，绝对很奇怪，这可能支持了菲尔的看法。一个精明的警察知道，为什么要突出这一点让辩护律师指出她应该这样做？而在她的辩护中，谁知道她当时在想什么，或者她前一晚是否还有其他问题。

I think Phil is right when he says from the police officer perspective, they're not gonna put something in there that is gonna undercut somebody who's in her position. And I think from your standpoint, absolutely, it's odd, and that probably supports what Phil did. A savvy police officer knows. Why am I gonna highlight this for a defense lawyer to point out the fact that she should have done it? And in her defense, who knows what went through her mind and whether she had some other issue, the night before.

我不一定

I don't necessarily

陷入了震惊或什么。那里有一个我们不知道的解释，可以帮助缓解大家的担忧。而且，梅根，我不是在责怪你问这个问题。我只是感到沮丧，因为互联网和所有人都在批评这个可怜的年轻女孩，但最糟糕的是

went into shock or something. There is an explanation there that we don't have that would help allay everyone's concerns. And, Megan, I'm not blaming you for asking the question. I just I'm frustrated because then the internet and everybody then just criticizes this poor young girl in the But worst

顺便说一句，梅根问的是任何律师都会问的问题。

by the way, Megan asked the same question any lawyer would.

我理解。梅根对此没意见。我也完全接受梅根提出这个问题。

I understand. Megan's okay with it. I'm all right with Megan asking the question.

好吧，我这么说吧。我认为她在这里也处于不利地位，因为很明显，当她接受警察询问时，她已经知道他们死了。所以在那一刻，她听到那些话时很困惑，她不知道。你不会想到‘我家里的人都死了’。你知道，你会想‘哦，我是不是太小题大做了’。

Well, I'll say this. I think she's also disadvantaged here because clearly when she's being interviewed by the cop, she now knows they're dead. And so in the moment, she hears the stuff, she's confused, she doesn't know. You're not thinking everyone's dead in my home. You know, you're thinking, oh, I'm being an alarmist.

我相信没事的。这是大学宿舍，人们进进出出。谁知道是不是有人在约会呢？对吧。

I'm sure it's fine. It's a college house. People are in and out of it. Who knows whether somebody's hooking up? Right.

现在是第二天早上，事态逐渐升级到朋友过来查看。他急忙把他们带出房子。他们报了警。警察赶到后，她听到他们在谈论四具尸体。

So now it's the next morning, and the slow build has crescendoed to where, like, the friend comes over. He rushes them out of the house. They call the cops. The cops get there. They she hears them talking about four bodies.

我是说，你知道，这就是他们最终找到她问话时的状态。好了，我们要讨论阿德尔森案了。先插播一段广告，别走开。

I mean, you know, that's the state in which they finally got to her to for some questions. So okay. We're gonna talk about the Adelson trial. We gotta take a quick break. Don't go away.

大峡谷大学是位于亚利桑那州美丽凤凰城的一所私立基督教大学，我们相信造物主赋予了我们某些不可剥夺的权利，包括生命权、自由权和追求幸福的权利。GCU相信机会平等，美国梦始于人生目标。通过践行职业召唤，你可以影响家人、朋友和社区。通过将他人置于自己之前来改变世界。无论你追求的是学士、硕士还是博士学位，GCU的在线、校园和混合学习环境都旨在帮助你实现独特的学术、个人和职业目标。

Grand Canyon University, a private Christian university in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona, believes that we are endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. GCU believes in equal opportunity and that the American dream starts with purpose. By honoring your career calling, you can impact your family, friends, and your community. Change the world for good by putting others before yourself. Whether your pursuit involves a bachelor's, master's, or doctoral degree, GCU's online on campus and hybrid learning environments are designed to help you achieve your unique academic, personal, and professional goals.

截至2024年9月，GCU提供超过340个学术项目，根据你的现状提供实现梦想的路径。服务他人的追求属于你，让它蓬勃发展。在大峡谷大学找到你的人生目标——私立、基督教、可负担。

With over 340 academic programs as of September 2024, GCU meets you where you are and provides a path to help you fulfill your dreams. The pursuit to serve others is yours. Let it flourish. Find your purpose at Grand Canyon University. Private, Christian, affordable.

访问gcu.edu。我想向你介绍Daily Look。这是个很酷的概念，他们的使命很简单：提升你的风格。他们与顶级品牌和新锐设计师合作，如Kate Spade、AG、Good American、Girlfriend Collective等。

Visit gcu.edu. I wanna tell you about Daily Look. This is a very cool idea. Their mission is simple, elevate your style. They work with top brands and emerging designers alike, like Kate Spade, AG, Good American, Girlfriend Collective, and more.

他们的尺码从XS到3X，0到24码，具体流程是：你先填写风格偏好问卷，比如喜欢大胆色彩或更修身的剪裁，然后就能在家收到最多12件精选单品。

Their sizes range from extra small to three x, zero to twenty four, and here's how it goes down. You fill out a style quiz with your preferences. Like, like bold colors. I like a more tailored look. Then receive up to 12 hand selected items at home.

保留你喜爱的，退回其余。双向免运费。Daily Look是女性最高评分的优质个人造型服务。你将拥有一位专属造型师（非算法），根据你的体型、生活方式和品味精心搭配每一箱衣物。每次都是同一位造型师为你服务。

Keep what you love, return the rest. Shipping is free both ways. Daily Look is the highest rated premium personal styling service for women. You get a dedicated stylist, not an algorithm, who curates each box based on your body shape, lifestyle, and taste. It's the same stylist every time.

所以如果你说“我不喜欢A字裙”，她就会记住不再推荐这类款式。在家试穿高端服饰，节省时间。访问dailylook.com，使用优惠码Meaghan首箱立享五折。是时候通过DailyLook拥有你的私人造型师了。

So if you say, I don't like A line skirts, she will know not to keep pushing those on you. Try on premium pieces at home and save time. Visit dailylook.com. Use the code Meaghan for 50% off your first box. It's time to get your own personal stylist with DailyLook.

前往dailylook.com完成风格测试，使用优惠码Meaghan首单五折。再次提醒：访问dailylook.com立享55折，务必使用我的促销码Meaghan，这样他们知道是我推荐的你才能获得折扣。我是Megan Kelly，SiriusXM电台《Megan Kelly秀》的主持人。这里是当今最有趣重要的政治、法律和文化人物进行开放、诚实、 provocative对话的平台。你可以在Triumph频道收听《Megyn Kelly秀》，这是SiriusXM旗下汇聚众多你可能熟知且喜爱的主持人的频道。

Head to dailylook.com to take your style quiz and use code Meaghan for 50% off your first order. Once again, that's dailylook.com for 55 o percent off, and make sure you use my promo code Meaghan so they know I sent you and they give you your discount. I'm Megan Kelly, host of the Megan Kelly show on SiriusXM. It's your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations with the most interesting important political, legal, and cultural figures today. You can catch the Megyn Kelly Show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love.

比如劳拉博士、格伦·贝克、南希·格雷斯、戴夫·拉姆齐等杰出人物，当然还有我——Megan Kelly。你可以通过SiriusXM应用随时随地收听《Megan Kelly秀》，无需车载设备。我经常这么听，超爱这个应用。

Great people like doctor Laura, Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly, Megan Kelly. You can stream the Megan Kelly show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the SiriusXM app.

它提供无广告音乐、所有主流体育赛事直播、喜剧、谈话节目、播客等内容。立即订阅可享首三个月免费。

It has ad free music coverage of every major sport, comedy, talk, podcast, and more. Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free.

登录siriusxm.com/mkshow订阅即享三个月免费。网址siriusxm.com/mkshow，获取三个月免费服务。优惠细则适用。

Go to siriusxm.com/mkshow to subscribe and get three months free. That's siriusxm.com/mkshow and get three months free. Offer details apply.

欢迎回到《Megan Kelly秀》。现在再次与我连线的是我们的法律梦之队成员：Mark Eiglarsh、Mark Garagos和Phil Holloway。他们都是MK真实犯罪节目的供稿人。这是我们MK传媒网络旗下的新播客。

Welcome back to the Megan Kelly Show. Back with me now, one of our legal dream teams, Mark Eiglarsh, Mark Garagos, and Phil Holloway. They are all contributors to MK True Crime. This is our new podcast. It's part of our MK Media Network.

前往任意播客平台订阅，只需搜索“MK真实犯罪”即可找到。点击关注后，节目将出现在你的订阅列表，每周两次更新这些法律明星对最热门案件和议题的激烈讨论。他们全都火力全开。

Go subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Just go into podcast and type in, MK True Crime. This will come up. You hit follow, and then you get this in your feed, and you will see our twice a week drops from all these legal all stars talking about the juiciest trials and issues of the day. They're all going at it.

你得看看他们有多激情四射——简直是在辩论！既有趣又有料，包含你喜爱《Kelly法庭》的所有元素。我们会把阿萨德也拉进来讨论。

You gotta see they're fiery. I mean, they're fighting. It's fun, and it's interesting, and it's entertaining, and it's all the things you love about Kelly's court. We'll drop Assad in here.

我只是觉得

I just think