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嘿。
Hey.
我是你的朋友梅尔,欢迎收听梅尔·罗宾斯播客。
It's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.
今天,你和我要学习一些经过科学验证的方法,用你的思维来提升你的生活。
Today, you and I are gonna learn scientifically proven ways you can use your mind to upgrade your life.
这将会非常酷,因为你将学会让锻炼变得更轻松,从而更快地变得更健康。
This is gonna be so cool because you're gonna learn to make workouts easier so you can get fitter faster.
你将学会让健康饮食变得更简单,从而每天都能感觉状态最佳。
You're gonna learn to make healthy eating easier so you can feel your best every day.
你甚至会学会克服最深的恐惧,不再让任何事情拖住你的后腿。
You'll even learn to overcome your worst fears so you don't let anything hold you back.
今天,全球顶尖的心态专家,博士。
Today, the world's number one expert in mindset, Doctor.
阿莉娅·克鲁姆,来到了我们在波士顿的演播室。
Aaliyah Crum, is here in our Boston studios.
博士。
Doctor.
阿莉娅·克鲁姆博士是斯坦福大学的教授,她负责斯坦福身心实验室。
Aaliyah Crum is a Stanford professor, and she runs the Stanford Mind and Body Lab.
她的研究一再证明,你对运动、压力和食物的想法正在阻碍你。
She has proven in her research over and over again that your thoughts about exercise, your thoughts about stress, your thoughts about food are working against you.
她将详细说明,这不仅仅是关于想法的问题。
And she's gonna go into detail that this isn't just about thoughts.
哦,这更酷了。
Oh, this is way cooler.
你的大脑中有一些设置是你需要了解并加以改变的。
There are settings in your mind that you need to know about and you need to change them.
这并不是一场关于积极思考的对话。
See, this isn't a conversation about positive thinking.
这是一种切实有效的心理工程。
It's mental engineering that works.
如果你厌倦了自我批评,厌倦了恐惧和焦虑,厌倦了始终得不到应得的结果,医生。
If you're tired of criticizing yourself, tired of your fears and anxiety, tired of never seeing the results you deserve, Doctor.
克鲁姆将根据她开创性的研究,一步步教你如何改变思维中的设定,从而实现你想要的任何目标。
Crum is gonna teach you step by step using her groundbreaking research exactly how to change the settings in your mind so you can achieve anything you want.
嘿,我是你的朋友梅尔,欢迎来到梅尔·罗宾斯播客。
Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.
我非常期待学习如何改变自己思维中的设定。
I am so excited to learn about changing the settings in my mind.
我非常期待你能了解这项研究。
I'm so excited for you to learn about this research.
很高兴你在这里。
I'm so glad you're here.
能和你共度这段时光,我感到无比荣幸。
It's such an honor to spend this time together.
如果你是新听众,或者因为有人分享给你而来到这里,我想花一点时间欢迎你加入梅尔·罗宾斯播客大家庭。
And if you're a new listener or you're here because somebody shared this with you, I just wanna take a moment and welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family.
天哪,你选的这一集真是太精彩了。
And holy cow, did you pick an incredible episode to listen to.
今天我们邀请的嘉宾是博士。
Our guest today is Doctor.
阿莉娅·克鲁姆。
Aaliyah Crum.
她将向你展示一些简单的思维转变,这些转变能改变你的身体、精力和人生。
She's gonna show you simple mindset shifts that change your body, energy, and life.
博士。
Doctor.
克鲁姆博士是斯坦福大学的教授,她领导着斯坦福身心实验室。
Krum is a professor at Stanford University where she runs the Stanford Mind and Body Lab.
博士。
Doctor.
克鲁姆博士在哈佛大学获得心理学学士学位,并在耶鲁大学获得临床心理学博士学位。
Krum earned her BA in psychology from Harvard and her PhD in clinical psychology from Yale.
她曾为领英、瑞银、斯坦福医疗和美国海军主导过心态转变项目。
She has led mindset change programs for LinkedIn, UBS, Stanford Healthcare, and The US Navy.
她荣获了美国国立卫生研究院的全新创新者奖。
She's the recipient of the National Institute of Health's New Innovator Award.
她的研究证明,你的信念会影响身体对压力、食物、运动甚至药物的生理反应,等你听到这些内容时一定会惊讶。
Her work proves that your beliefs shape how your body responds biologically, wait till you hear this stuff, to stress, food, exercise, and even medicine.
她即将教你如何利用内心的设定,塑造最健康、最强壮的自己。
She's about to teach you how to use the settings in your mind to create the healthiest, strongest you.
请让我为大家欢迎博士。
Please help me welcome Doctor.
阿莉娅·克鲁姆做客梅尔·罗宾斯播客。
Aaliyah Crum to the Mel Robbins podcast.
博士。
Doctor.
阿莉娅·克鲁姆在这里。
Aaliyah Crum in the house.
谢谢,欢迎。
Thank you and welcome.
谢谢你,梅尔。
Thank you, Mel.
能来到这里真是太令人兴奋了。
It's so exciting to be here.
我非常兴奋,因为我真的希望让变得非常健康、更强壮、更快乐变得简单。
I am so excited because I really wanna make being super fit and healthier and happier easy.
我相信你能帮助我改变我的心态。
And I I do believe that you can help me change my mindset.
所以,我想这样开始。
So here's how I wanna start.
你能告诉听众,如果我这样做,我的生活会有什么不同吗?
Could you tell the person listening, how would my life be different?
如果我把所有这些令人惊叹的研究和你即将教给我们的工具应用到我的生活中,我的生活可能会变得更好吗?
How might it be better if I take all of this amazing research and all the tools you're about to teach us and I just apply it to my life?
会发生什么?
What's gonna happen?
所以,梅尔,我作为学者也是作为一个人的毕生事业,就是理解人类思维的力量。
So, Mel, my life's work as an academic, but also as a human, is to understand the power of the human mind.
所以我认为我们都明白这一点。
So I think we all know this.
对吧?
Right?
信念和心态有着巨大的力量,而正在听你节目的人尤其清楚这一点。
There is this power of belief, of mindset, and the people who are listening to your show are especially clued into this fact.
但我想再深入一点,说得更具体一些。
But I'd like to go a little deeper and be a little bit more specific.
对吧?
Right?
当我们说‘只要相信’或‘积极思考’的时候,嗯哼。
So when we say things like, oh, just believe or think positive Uh-huh.
或者,你知道的,改变你的思维方式,那我们到底是什么意思呢?
Or, you know, change your mindset, like, what do we really mean?
我不知道。
I don't know.
首先,我期待你能告诉我,因为我觉得我们很多人都觉得,好吧。
First of I'm hoping you're gonna tell me because I think that a lot of us do feel like, okay.
我只需要相信就行,但你在这里是要教我们,不是这样的。
I just have to believe, but you're here to teach us, no.
实际上,背后有更深层的东西,而且更易触及。
There's actually something deeper and there's something more accessible.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得我们需要更具体一点。
I think we need to be more specific.
假设你面前有一件压力很大的事,比如一场面试,或者你正试图减肥或更健康,又或者你刚被诊断出癌症或其他健康问题。
So say you have something stressful on the horizon, like a job interview, or say you're trying to lose weight or get healthier, or say you were just diagnosed with cancer or some other health diagnosis.
关键是,要知道你该相信什么,最好的心态是什么,这有多重要,更重要的是,我们能做些什么来培养更有用的心态?
Like, it really matters to know what should you believe, what is the best mindset to have, like, how much does that matter, and most importantly, what can we do to adopt more useful mindsets?
因此,依我看来,我们今天对话的目标是帮助人们更深入、更熟练地理解和运用人类思维的力量。
So the goal, as I see it for our conversation today, is to help people to become more sophisticated and more skillful and understanding and applying the power of the human mind.
哇。
Woah.
我喜欢这个观点:有一种技能可以培养,让你能够调动自己思维的力量。
I love the idea that there is this skill that you can develop to be able to tap into the power of your mind.
这远远超出了单纯的信念,而是要理解其运作的机制。
It goes way beyond sort of just your beliefs, but rather understanding the mechanics of how it works.
那么,克鲁姆博士,既然您是心态领域的世界知名研究者,也许我们该从术语开始。
Now, doctor Crum, given that you are a world renowned researcher on mindset, maybe we should just start with vocabulary.
好的。
Yeah.
到底什么是心态?
What exactly is mindset?
那是什么意思?
What does that mean?
是的。
Yes.
心态其实就是大脑的设置。
So mindsets are quite literally settings of the mind.
等等。
So they're Wait a minute.
稍等一下。
Hold on a second.
我,好吧。
I okay.
现在我感觉自己像个傻瓜,因为以前没人这么解释过,而你一说,这事儿就显而易见了。
And now I feel almost like an idiot because I don't I've never heard anybody explain what is so obvious now that you said it.
嗯。
Mhmm.
心态就是你头脑中的设置。
Mindset is the settings in your mind.
没错。
Exactly.
现在,这些设置就像是视角或思维框架,引导我们关注特定的一系列体验。
Now there are settings, are lenses or frames of mind which orient us to a particular set of experiences.
好。
K.
好的。
Okay.
因此,我们的思维可以以多种方式被设定。
So our minds can be set in many ways.
我所关注并一直研究的心态,是那些由我们核心信念所塑造的心态。
The mindsets that I'm interested in that have sort of occupied my thinking and research are the mindsets that are set by our core beliefs.
好的。
Okay.
我们的核心信念是我们对事物本质及其重要性的看法。
So our core beliefs are our beliefs about the essence of what something is and why it matters.
好的。
Okay.
你能给我举个例子吗?
Can you give me an example?
因为现在我就在想,我不知道自己会不会掉下去。
Because already I'm like, I don't know if I'm gonna fall.
没关系,因为
It's okay for
举个例子。
So an example.
我们对世界上的许多事物都有心态。
So we have mindsets about many things in the world.
事实上
In fact
而且请稍等,我想跟上你的思路,因为我对将心态简单地理解为大脑中的设置感到非常兴奋。
And hold and let me just because I wanna track with you because I'm so excited to really think about mindset as simply the settings in your mind.
我喜欢把心态看作大脑中的设置,这个想法让我这样的人——虽然不像你这位著名的斯坦福研究员——也能在基本层面上明白:等等。
And what I love about the idea of thinking about mindset as the settings in your mind is that even somebody like me who is not a world renowned Stanford researcher like you understands at a basic level, wait a minute.
如果我的大脑里有这些设置,那么显然有人或某种力量设定了这些设置。
If there are settings in my mind, then clearly someone or something put those settings in place.
如果我的大脑里有这些设置,而且我知道它们的存在,那么通过向你,克鲁姆博士学习,我就能有能力去改变这些设置。
And if there's settings in my mind and I know about them, I have the ability by learning from you, doctor Crum, how to change the settings.
没错。
Exactly.
我们今天学的就是这个吗?
That's what we're learning today?
我们今天学的就是这个。
That's what we're learning.
天啊。
Oh my god.
太喜欢了。
Love this.
任何人都可以意识到并改变这些设置。
And anybody can become aware of and change the settings.
好的。
Okay.
所以给我们举个例子,你指的是什么?
So give us an example of what you mean
是的。
Yes.
当你说到思维中的设置以及它如何影响你的生活,也许现在就在影响你,而你甚至没有意识到。
When you say settings in the mind and how it impacts your life maybe right now and you didn't even realize it.
是的。
Yes.
我们对很多事情都有思维模式。
So we have mindsets about many things.
我的同事杰拉德·克利夫顿在研究关于世界的心态方面做得非常好。
My colleague, Jared Clifton, does great work, looking at mindsets about the world K.
把世界看作一个整体。
As one big place.
你认为世界是危险的还是安全的?
So do you believe the world is dangerous or safe?
这是一种心态。
That's a mindset.
你认为世界是公正的还是不公正的?
Do you believe the world is just or unjust?
你知道,你在这一连续体上的位置就是一种心态。
You know, kind of where you are on that continuum is a mindset.
你认为世界是富足的,也就是说资源充足,足够我们所有人分享,还是认为世界是匮乏的?
Do you believe the world is abundant, you know, full of resources, enough for all of us to go around, or do you believe it's scarce?
这是一种心态。
That's a mindset.
卡罗尔·德韦克和戴维·耶格尔在关于智力或能力的思维模式方面做了非常出色的工作。
Carol Dweck, David Yeager have done really good work on mindsets about intelligence or your abilities.
那么,你认为自己的智力是固定不变的,还是认为它是可塑的?
So do you believe that your intelligence is fixed, set in stone, or do you believe it's malleable?
它可以成长。
It can grow.
它可以提升。
It can improve.
它可以改变。
It can change.
我们实验室的工作是研究与健康相关的思维模式。
The work that we do in our lab is looking at mindsets about things related to our health.
哦。
Oh.
以压力为例。
So take stress.
嗯。
Uh-huh.
你认为压力会置你于死地,还是会让你变得更强大?
Do you believe that stress is going to kill you, or is it going to make you stronger?
你对健康食品有什么看法?
What's your belief about healthy food?
你认为健康食品是难吃又令人压抑的选择,还是认为它们其实美味又令人满足?
Do you believe healthy foods are the disgusting and depriving option, or do you believe healthy foods are actually indulgent and delicious?
那癌症呢?
What about cancer?
你认为癌症是彻底的灾难,还是可能可以控制的?
Do you believe that cancer is a unmitigated catastrophe, or might cancer be manageable?
它甚至可能成为让你生活发生积极改变的机会吗?
Might it even be an opportunity to make positive changes in your lives?
所以这些心态,梅尔,它们不是非对即错的。
So these these mindsets, Mel, they're not true or false.
它们不是对或错。
They're not right or wrong.
它们是对这些事物本质的过度简化且极具评判性的判断。
They're oversimplified, highly evaluative judgments about the nature of these things.
但它们在塑造我们的生活中至关重要。
But they matter in shaping our lives.
事实上,它们创造了我们的现实。
In fact, they create our realities.
它们通过设计,而非某种魔法,来创造我们的现实。
And they create our realities not through some kind of magic, but by design.
因此,我们的思维模式改变了我们关注的内容。
So our mindsets change what we pay attention to.
如果你认为世界是危险的,你会在世界上看到更多的危险。
If you believe the world is dangerous, you're gonna see more danger in the world.
我们的思维模式改变了我们感受和预期感受的情绪。
Our mindsets change how we feel and expect to feel emotionally.
我们的心态会改变我们做事的动机,以及我们在现实世界中实际参与和行为的方式。
Our mindsets change what we're motivated to do and how we actually engage and behave in the world.
我们的研究显示,心态还会改变我们的身体。
And what our work has shown is that our mindsets also change our bodies.
它们会影响我们的身体在生理上如何准备和应对不同事物。
They change how our bodies physiologically prepare and respond to different things.
我认为最后这一点非常有趣,它将帮助我们理解为什么我们头脑中的设定——
I think that last thing is super fascinating, and it's gonna help us understand why the settings in our mind,
这些我们可以改变的设定,如此重要。
which we can change, matter so much.
我非常希望你能解释一下你著名的奶昔研究。
And I would love to have you explain your famous milkshake study.
如果真有一项科学研究我想成为被试者,我想那一定是被称为‘奶昔研究’的实验。
If there was ever a scientific study that I wanted to be a subject in, I think it would be a study called the milkshake study.
但你能解释一下这项研究是什么吗?你们是如何进行的?更重要的是,你们在著名的奶昔研究中发现了什么?它向我们揭示了关于心态设定及其对健康影响的哪些可能性?
But could you explain what this study is, how you conducted it, and more importantly, what did you find in the famous milkshake study, and what does it tell us about what's possible regarding the settings of your mind and the power that it has over your health?
是的。
Yes.
很好。
Great.
所以,奶昔研究实际上非常简单。
So the milkshake study was very simple, actually.
我们把人们带到代谢研究实验室。
We brought people into the metabolic research lab.
这项研究是在耶鲁大学进行的。
This was done at Yale University.
我们让他们在两个时间点前来,并让他们喝下一份350卡路里的奶昔。
And we had them come in two time points, and we had them drink a 350 calorie milkshake.
好的。
K.
什么口味?
What flavor?
是香草味的。
It was vanilla.
好的。
Okay.
就是简单的香草奶昔。
Just simple vanilla milkshake.
与此同时,当他们喝这杯奶昔时,我们给他们接了静脉输液。
And meanwhile, while they were drinking this milkshake, we had them hooked up to an IV.
我们给他们接静脉输液的原因是我们在检测他们的血液。
And the reason we had them hooked up to an IV is we were measuring their blood.
好的。
Okay.
特别是,我们对一种叫做胃饥饿素的激素感兴趣。
And in particular, we were interested in this hormone called ghrelin.
胃饥饿素。
Ghrelin.
饥饿素。
Ghrelin.
好的。
Okay.
饥饿素。
Ghrelin.
所以,医学专家称饥饿素为饥饿激素。
So ghrelin, medical experts call this the hunger hormone.
好。
K.
好。
K.
因此,饥饿激素被认为有助于调节饥饿和新陈代谢。
So the hunger hormone is thought to help regulate hunger and metabolism.
当饥饿素水平升高时,它会向你的大脑发出信号:嘿。
So when ghrelin levels are high, that signals to your brain, hey.
寻找食物。
Seek out food.
对吧?
Right?
它还会减缓新陈代谢,直到你真正获取并摄入食物。
And it also slows metabolism until you actually secure and consume that food.
好的。
Okay.
理论上,人们一直认为,你摄入的卡路里越多,胃饥饿素水平就会下降。
And, theoretically, it had been assumed that in proportion to the amount of calories you eat, ghrelin levels will drop.
所以,如果我们出去吃一个汉堡、一杯奶昔,摄入大量卡路里,胃饥饿素水平就会急剧下降,K。
So if we go out and have a burger and a milkshake and a lot of calories, ghrelin levels will plummet K.
这向大脑发出信号:好吧。
Which signal to the brain, okay.
你可以停止优先考虑进食,并加快身体的新陈代谢,以消耗你刚刚吃下的食物。
You can stop prioritizing food consumption and rev up the metabolism in the body to burn the food that you just ate.
好的。
Okay.
当然,如果我们没有吃到食物,或者只吃了一点点,胃饥饿素水平只会轻微下降,从而持续产生饥饿信号,并保持新陈代谢缓慢。
Now, of course, if we didn't get food or if we only ate a little bit of food, ghrelin levels would drop only slightly, therefore, kind of perpetuating those hunger signals and keeping metabolism slow.
好的。
Okay.
好的。
Okay.
所以你给这些人提供这些奶昔。
So so you give these people these milkshakes.
你给他们插上静脉输液。
You put an IV in them.
你认为会发生什么?
And what do you suspect would happen?
是的。
Yes.
所以,如果我们只是在两个不同时间点给同一个人同样的奶昔
So we if we had just given them the same milkshake at two different time points, and it's the same person
好吧。
Okay.
两个时间点都是同样的奶昔,我们会认为他们的身体反应完全相同。
Both time points, same milkshake, we would assume that their bodies would respond exactly the same.
好吧。
Okay.
但你们在研究中实际做了什么?
So what did you do in the study, though?
是的。
Yes.
关键就在这里。
So here's the catch.
我是一名心理学家,所以我喜欢研究:改变我们对真相的认知,如何影响身体的反应。
So I'm a psychologist, so I like to play around with how does changing what we believe to be true change how our bodies respond.
所以在这项研究中,我们实际上给了他们一份350卡路里的奶昔。
So in the study, we actually gave them a 350 calorie milkshake.
有一次,我们告诉他们这是份享乐型奶昔,含有620卡路里,高脂肪、高糖分。
At one point, we told them it was an indulgent milkshake, 620 calories, high fat, high sugar.
这才是你应得的奢华享受。
This is really the decadence you deserve.
对吧?
Right?
我们甚至在标签上写着:‘你应得的奢华享受’。
We even had on the label, like, decadence you deserve.
而另一次,我们告诉他们这是SensiBull奶昔。
And the other the other time point, we told them it was a SensiBull shake.
它叫SensiShake。
It was called the SensiShake.
它轻盈又健康。
It was light and fit.
它只有140卡路里,低脂低糖。
It was a 140 calories, low fat, low sugar.
这算是你的减肥奶昔。
This is sort of your diet shake.
好的。
Okay.
让我确认一下我有没有理解清楚。
So just so I'm tracking.
是的。
Yes.
我参与了你们的研究。
I'm in your study.
有一天我来的时候,你给了我这款明智奶昔。
One day I come in and you give me the sensible shake.
对。
Yeah.
我被告知,而且我相信这是一杯140卡路里的 shakes。
And I'm told and I believe it's a 140 calories, and that's one shake.
是的。
Yes.
另一次我在同一时间进来,他们告诉我,我喝的还是同一款 shakes,但现在被称为‘放纵款’,而且热量是600卡路里。
Another time I come in at the exact same time, I am told now it's same shake I'm drinking, but I am told and it is labeled the indulgent shake and it's 600.
这是我应得的享受。
It's a luxury that I deserve.
所以,我得到的信息就是这些,我假设这些信息正在影响我对自身摄入量的认知。
And so that's the information I'm told and I'm assuming these are now manipulating the settings in my mind about what I'm actually consuming.
你对人们做这个实验时发现了什么?
What did you find when you did that with people?
本质上,标签在塑造他们的心理。
Essentially, the labels were setting their minds.
标签要么让他们进入‘放纵’的心态,也就是高热量的 shakes,嗯。
It the label either put them in the mindset of indulgent, you know, high caloric shake Uh-huh.
或者是一种节制、理性的心态。
Or the mindset of sensibility, somewhat of restraint.
对吧?
Right?
低脂选项。
The low fat option.
我们发现,仅仅改变心态,他们的饥饿素反应就会有所不同。
What we found was that their ghrelin response differed in response to simply changing the mindset.
特别是当他们认为自己喝的是享乐型奶昔时,体内的饥饿素水平下降速度是认为喝的是理性奶昔时的三倍。
And in particular, when they thought they were consuming the indulgent shake, their body's ghrelin levels dropped at a threefold rate compared to when they thought they were consuming a sensible shake.
所以本质上,这意味着当他们认为自己在放纵享用时,身体的反应就好像摄入了更多食物一样。
So in essence, what this means is when they thought they were consuming indulgently, their bodies responded as if it had had more food.
什么?
What?
等等。
Wait.
所以你是说,仅仅通过改变心理设定,让某人相信这杯奶昔热量更高、更享受,就能实际改变可测量的生理反应?他们的身体会根据心理变化做出反应?
I so you're saying that by changing just the settings in the mind, by having somebody believe that the shake was more caloric and more indulgent, it actually changed the biology that you could measure in someone's bot the body responded based on the mindset changes?
没错。
Yep.
完全正确。
That's exactly right.
这太疯狂了。
That's insane.
嗯,这其实是
Well, it's
当你仔细想想,也没那么疯狂。
not all that as insane when you start to think about it.
对吧?
Right?
大脑的全部职责就是帮助你监测外部环境,评估内部环境,并利用这两方面的信息来维持我们的生命和健康。
The brain's whole job is to help, you know, monitor the external environment, assess the internal environment, and use information from both of those things to keep us alive, keep us healthy.
当大脑认为你没有摄入足够的食物时,它会说:保持饥饿感强烈。
And when the brain thinks, oh, you're not getting enough food, it says, keep hunger strong.
保持新陈代谢缓慢,因为它的职责是帮助我们生存。
Keep metabolism low because its job is to help us stay alive.
所以这令人惊讶,因为我们通常有一个过于简化的假设,认为健康体重就是‘摄入热量等于消耗热量’,但事实远非如此简单。
So it's surprising because we have this kind of oversimplified assumption that a healthy weight is kind of calories in, calories out, but it's really not that simple.
这项研究显示,我们的心态也同样重要。
And what this study shows is that our mindsets also matter.
我们在进食时所处的心理状态,会影响我们对食物的体验,无论是味觉层面,还是生理层面。
The settings of the mind that we're in when we eat will change how we experience that food, both, you know, on a taste level, but also on a physical level.
我觉得这太令人兴奋了。
I think this is so exciting.
我特别喜欢这一点,那就是——
And one of the things that I really like about this is that okay.
那我来简化一下这个观点,嗯。
So I'm gonna dumb this down Mhmm.
好的,对我自己来说。
K, for myself.
所以我会以为,如果你狼吞虎咽地喝下一杯奶昔,无论你喝的是什么,那都是你的身体唯一需要处理和回应的输入。
So I would have thought that if you slurp down a milkshake, whatever it is that you drank, that would be the singular input that your body then processes and responds to.
嗯。
Mhmm.
但你所说的是,研究非常明确地表明,当你对心理状态非常有意识时,这些心理状态也在时刻向身体传递信息,并改变你所体验到的生理反应。
But what you're saying is that the research is very clear that when you get very intentional about the settings in the mind, the settings in the mind also are communicating to the body at all times and also sending information to the body that changes the biology of what you're experiencing.
这太不可思议了。
That's extraordinary.
没错。
Yep.
我,我真的,等不及要听听我们具体能如何运用这一发现了,嗯。
I I and and I'm and I cannot wait to hear the specific ways we can use this finding Mhmm.
你心理上的设定——我会一直这么叫它。
That your settings in the mind I'm gonna keep calling it that.
我希望你不介意,医生,因为我真的更喜欢‘状态’这个词,而不是‘心态’。
I hope you don't mind, doc, because I literally just like that versus mindset.
因为‘心态’这个词总让我觉得有点像‘态度’。
Because mindset feels mindset always did feel kinda like attitude.
嗯。
Yep.
你讲的是有意识地设定状态,对吧。
You're talking about an intentional setting Right.
它能帮助你达成特定的结果。
That helps you create a specific outcome.
对。
Yeah.
我还有一个例子,想跟你分享一下。
And I have another example that I wanted to, share with you.
你知道吗,当你一路赶来的时候,我们所有人都特别兴奋。
You know, when you were coming, all the way here, we were all so excited.
这个节目的制作助理仅仅通过聆听你的TED演讲,并不断对自己重复,就克服了长达十年的飞行恐惧。
And the production assistant on this show got over a decade long fear of flying simply by listening to your TED Talk and repeating to herself over and over again.
她会在每次飞行时对自己说:这次飞行只是我脑海中一个旧的设定。
She would say on this flight, this is just an old setting in my mind.
她说,你提供的这个技巧帮助她克服了对飞行的恐惧。
And she says that that one technique from you helped her get over her fear of flying.
事实上,我想让你听听梅丽莎的说法。
In fact, I want you to hear from Melissa.
你好,克鲁姆医生。
Hi, doctor Crum.
我害怕飞行已经十年了。
I've been afraid of flying for ten years.
每次飞行时,我都会因为十年前的一次经历而极度焦虑,担心自己在飞行中突发医疗紧急状况,身体也随之出现生病般的生理反应。
And every time I fly, I get super overwhelmed with the idea that I could potentially have a medical emergency in flight after an experience ten years ago, and my body follows suit with physical symptoms that I'm sick.
但自从听了你的TED演讲后,我真正地更新了自己心中的设定,并提醒自己,这些生理感觉之所以如此真实,只是因为我不断让自己相信它们是真的。
But since listening to your TED talk, I was really able to update the setting in my mind and remind myself that my physical sensations only feel so real because I'm working myself up into believing them.
所以上周,我从波士顿往返洛杉矶,这是多年来第一次没有感到任何不适或焦虑。
So last week, I flew round trip from Boston to LA, and for the first time in forever, I felt no sickness or anxiety.
将你的方法付诸实践,让我的心态与我协同而非对抗,这真是太棒了。
It's been so incredible putting your work into practice to make my mindset work with me, not against.
我喜欢这个。
I love this.
我想问你一个问题。
And here's what I wanna ask you.
因为我个人希望现在能将这个方法转化为一次个人辅导,帮助我自己的心态和我孩子们的心态。
Because I have personally the desire to turn this now into a personal coaching session for for, like, settings of my own mind and my kids' minds.
但我想知道的是,如果她当时在飞机上,一遍又一遍地对自己说:这只是我头脑中的一个旧设定。
But what I wanna know is if she were on the plane and she were repeating to herself, this is just an old setting in my mind.
这种有意识地重复‘这些只是我头脑中的旧设定’,让她没有过度紧张,也没有感受到那些让她恐慌的身体反应。
And that intentional saying, these are just old settings in my mind, allowed her to not get all worked up and feel the physical sensations that freaked her out.
你能解释一下,克鲁姆医生,这个例子中究竟发生了什么吗?
Can you explain, doctor Krum, what's actually happening in this example?
嗯。
Yeah.
好吧,
Well,
首先,艾莉莎,感谢你分享这些。
first of all, Alyssa, thank you for sharing that.
知道我们所做的工作有用,总是令人非常欣慰。
It's always so wonderful to know that the work we're doing is useful.
那里发生的事情其实非常强大,对吧?首先,回顾一下,她的思维可能由童年时的某种经历所设定,嗯。
What's happening there is really powerful, right, which is first, you know, going back, her mind was set by probably some experience that she had as a child Uh-huh.
也许她曾经在飞机上生病过,或者在飞机上感到极度恐惧、焦虑或失去控制,无论是什么情况。
Where she maybe got sick on a plane or maybe was on a plane and felt deep fear and anxiety or lack of control or whatever it was on that plane.
那段记忆在她心中固化为一种模式,对吧?那就是,如果你坐飞机,就会感觉很糟糕。
And that memory kind of forged in her mind as a setting, right, that, you know, if you fly, you will feel horrible.
你会感到失控。
You will feel out of control.
你会感到恶心。
You will feel sick.
你会感到我不知道那是什么,但我猜飞行和身体症状之间建立了一些关联。
You will feel I don't know what it was, but I'm guessing there was some association that was made between flying and physical symptoms.
嗯。
K.
现在,大脑和身体有点奇怪的是,当你学到这些后,大脑会想:哦,我需要保护你,让你再也不经历那种感觉。
Now what's kind of glitchy about the mind is that and the body is that learning that, what the mind does is thinks, oh, I need to protect you from ever experiencing that again.
对吧?
Right?
所以它会想:避开飞机。
So it thinks, let's avoid planes.
对吧?
Right?
避开任何可能让你再次有这种感觉的情况。
Let's avoid any kind of situations when you're gonna feel like that again.
但它也强化了这样一种信念:如果她飞行,就会感受到那些症状。
But it also perpetuates this belief that if she flies, she's gonna feel those things.
这种信念和保护的初衷虽然是善意的,但结果是,这种信念创造了现实。
Now the belief and the kind of desire to protect was well intended, but what happens is that belief creates the reality.
所以当她登上飞机,心里想着‘我害怕飞行,因为我可能会生病’时,回到那四种机制。
So when she gets on a plane feeling I'm afraid to fly because I'm gonna get sick, go back to those four mechanisms.
她开始关注什么?
What does she start paying attention to?
她所有轻微出汗的迹象、所有轻微恶心的感觉,以及她可能感到心跳加速的任何方式。
All the ways in which she's a little clammy, all the ways in which she's a little nauseous, all the ways in which she might, you know, feel her heart racing.
也许她会晕倒。
Maybe she's gonna pass out.
对吧?
Right?
我们所有人其实都经常有这些症状。
We all have these symptoms, like, all the time.
对吧?
Right?
这就是我们的身体如此有趣的地方。
This is what's, you know, so interesting about our bodies.
如果你让自己关注身体,你会意识到有时候我们确实会感到恶心。
If you ask yourself to pay attention to your body, you realize sometimes we do feel nauseous.
有时候我们的心跳会加速。
Sometimes our heart races.
这种事一直在发生。
It's, like, happening all the time.
现在她有了寻找这些感觉的理由。
Now she has a reason to find that.
所以这个信念改变了她的注意力,也改变了她的情绪。
So that belief changed her attention, changed her emotions.
焦虑程度简直高得离谱。
There's, you know, anxiety off the off the charts.
恐惧感爆表。
Fear off the charts.
这可能改变了她想要去做的事情。
It probably changed what she was motivated to do.
我猜她很多年都没怎么坐过飞机。
I'm assuming she didn't take many flights for many years.
从生理上讲,这些症状就这样产生了。
And physiologically, those symptoms get created.
所以这些信念原本是为了保护她。
So the beliefs were intended to protect her.
心灵的设定原本是为了保护她,但实际却创造了她最害怕的现实。
The settings of the mind were intended to protect her, but they were actually creating the reality that she feared most.
所以从她的例子中可以看出,你并不一定需要十年的心理治疗才能改变你心中的设定。
So what's beautiful of her in her example is that you don't need ten years of therapy necessarily to kind of shift the settings in your mind.
当然,别误会我的意思。
Now don't get me wrong.
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我完全支持心理治疗,有时我们确实需要多年时间来探索我们信念的根源。
I'm all for therapy, and sometimes we do need many years to explore the origins of our beliefs.
但在她的案例中,她意识到:哦,我不再需要这个设定了吗。
But in her case, she realized, oh, I don't need that setting anymore.
谢谢你,身体,试图保护我,但我再也不需要这个了。
Thank you, body, for trying to protect me, but I don't need that.
我真的再也不需要这个设定了。
I just don't need that setting anymore.
而仅仅是这种觉察,有时就足以让我们放下它。
And and that alone, that awareness sometimes is enough to let it go.
关于这一点,我想确保我们深入探讨很多内容。
There's so much I wanna make sure that we unpack in that.
我喜欢你刚才说的,有时候你并不需要十年的治疗才能弄明白。
And I love what you said when you said sometimes you don't need ten years of therapy to figure it out.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我不记得是谁说的,但我很喜欢这句话:如果你没有自己说服自己接受,那你可能也很难靠说话把自己说服放下。
And I don't remember who said it, but I love the saying that if you didn't talk yourself into it, you probably can't talk yourself out of it.
你今天所分享的工作和教学告诉我们,生活中的经历会在你的脑海中形成某种模式,这些模式在你生命中的某些阶段可能有效,但总会有那么一个时刻,你可以开始借助你的研究,意识到:等等,如果我不喜欢自己当下的体验,不妨考虑一下,是不是脑海中还存有过去不需要的旧模式。
And your work and what you're teaching us today is that the experiences of your life, they create settings in your mind, and they may work for periods of your life, but there will come a moment in your life where you can start to access your research and say, wait a minute, if I don't like the way I'm experiencing something, let me just consider that there's old settings in my mind that I don't need anymore.
只要我愿意,我随时可以改变这些模式。
And anytime I decide to, I can change the settings.
我也假设你并不一定需要知道最初的事件是什么。
And I also would assume that you don't necessarily have to know the originating event.
你只需要知道,你的脑海中存在某些固定模式,比如每次一上飞机,嗯。
You just have to know that there are certain settings in your mind that every time you get on a plane Mhmm.
或者每次胃里微微一颤,你就觉得‘天啊,我要吐了’,然后就开始把自己搞得焦虑不安。
Or every time you get a a little tingle in your stomach, you feel like, oh gosh, I'm gonna throw up, and then you start working yourself up into a tizzy.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这是一个旧模式。
That's an old setting.
是的。
Yep.
所以我特别喜欢这一点,因为我觉得这就像我自己在对大脑中的各种设定进行调试,以应对各种情况。
And so I love that because I feel like this is almost like myself doing tinkering with my own settings in my mind for any kind of situation.
你刚才快速提到另一件事,我想确保我理解正确。
There's another thing that you said very quickly that I wanna make sure I understand.
你基本上是说,设定之所以如此重要——如果我没理解错的话,请纠正我——是因为这些设定会影响你看待世界的方式,进而影响四个机制。
You basically said, the reason why settings are so important, if I'm getting this right, please correct me if I'm wrong, is that these settings, the way you see the world affect four mechanisms.
嗯。
Mhmm.
如果我没听错的话,你意思是,你大脑中的这些设定会告诉你该关注什么。
And if I heard you correctly, it's that these settings in your mind tell you what to focus on.
它们会影响你感受到的情绪。
They have an impact on the emotions you feel.
嗯。
Mhmm.
它们还会影响你是否愿意采取行动,比如是否登机,同时也会产生生理影响。
They also impact what you're motivated to do or not do, in this case, getting on a plane or not, and they have a physiological impact.
嗯。
Mhmm.
那你能以害怕飞行为例吗?嗯。
So could you take the example of being afraid of flying Mhmm.
这是一种旧有的观念。
Which is an old setting.
很多人都有这种观念。
A lot of people have that one.
嗯。
Mhmm.
请具体告诉我,像‘我会在飞机上生病’或‘飞机可能会坠毁’或‘会发生可怕的事情’这样的旧观念,是如何影响你的注意力、情绪、动机和生理状态的?
And tell me exactly, how does the setting that I'm either gonna get sick on this plane or this plane's gonna go down or something terrible is gonna happen, the old setting, how does that setting impact your attention, your emotions, your motivation, and your physiology?
让我们更好地理解这些观念如何对这四个方面产生强大影响,以及它们如何进而影响你的行为。
Just so we kinda get the power of these settings over these four things and how that then impacts your behavior.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我想做的第一件事是弄清楚这个设定是什么。
So the first thing I would wanna do is figure out what the setting was.
对吧?
Right?
有时候对飞行的恐惧源于对飞行的核心信念。
So sometimes fear of flying is about the core belief about flying.
对吧?
Right?
比如,飞行很危险。
Like, flying is dangerous.
好的。
K.
我认为在艾莉莎的情况下,我听到的是,实际上是对她身体的核心信念。
I think in Alyssa's case, what I'm hearing, you know, I'd like to talk with her more about it, is was actually a core belief about her body.
对吧?
Right?
她担心自己会生病,会突发医疗紧急状况,哦。
That she was worried that she was going to get sick, that she was going to have a medical emergency Oh.
在那次航班上。
On that flight.
因此,她内心的状态是对自己的身体缺乏信任。
And so it was the setting of her mind that was a distrust in her body.
我的身体不仅没有能力,还可能在这一刻背叛我。
My body is not only not capable but might turn on me in this very moment.
明白了。
Gotcha.
对她来说,飞行令人恐惧,因为在航班上得不到任何帮助。
And flying was fearful for her because there was there's no help to be had on a flight.
你知道,当你在空中时,你离医疗救助是最远的。
You have you know, you can't get any further from medical attention when you're up in the air.
所以,这种‘我的身体不可信’的信念。
And so that belief of my body, it can't be trusted.
对吧?
Right?
如果我们能处理这个信念,它会如何改变她关注的重点?
If we can work with that, how does that change what she pays attention to?
她开始注意到自己身体今天各种不太对劲的地方。
She starts noticing all the ways in which her body is a little off today.
并没有为她好好工作。
Isn't really working for her.
她开始感到焦虑,而你知道,这会进一步加剧身体的不适症状。
She starts feeling anxious, which, as you know, further exacerbates physical symptoms in the body.
从行为上来说,艾莉莎,抱歉如果我替你说了话,如果你觉得不对可以纠正我,但很多人会选择吃药或喝酒,对吧?这可能会在飞行中引发更多的身体不适。
Maybe behaviorally and, Alyssa, sorry if I'm putting, you know, words in your mouth and you can correct the record if it's wrong, but a lot of people stood they take pills or they drink, right, which could cause more physical symptoms on the on the flight.
对吧?
Right?
所以,这些机制就是:你注意到了什么?
So these mechanisms of what do you notice?
你在做什么?
What are you doing?
你情绪上感觉如何?
How are you feeling emotionally?
而身体上正在发生什么,这些都在共同作用,讽刺的是,它们共同造就了你最害怕的现实——在那一刻,你的身体会背叛你。
And what is going on physically are all kind of working together, and they're working together ironically to create the reality that you fear most, which is your body is gonna turn on you in that moment.
你知道吗,从来没有人向我解释过身心之间的实际科学联系,更没有以一种让我真正理解你意思的方式讲解——你的思维模式正在创造现实。
You know, I've never had anybody explain the actual science of the mind body and the connection and really do it in a way where I now think I understand what you mean when it's that your mindset is creating the reality.
嗯。
Mhmm.
你教给我们的,以及你的研究所证明的是:你心中的设定,比如我们先举一些人们常见的例子,然后再谈健康相关的内容——如果你相信自己彻底毁掉了人生,改变已经太晚了,你永远无法摆脱债务,永远找不到真爱,无论是什么样的想法,这种心理设定都会驱使你关注什么。
What you're teaching us and what your research proves is that the settings in your mind like like, let's take a bunch of ones that people have just to start throwing it out, then we'll kinda get into the health stuff, is that if you believe that you've completely screwed up your life, it's too late to change, you're never gonna get out of debt, you're never gonna find the one, whatever it may be, that setting in your mind becomes the it it it drives what you focus on.
所以你开始注意到身边所有成双成对的人。
So you start to see everybody that's coupled up.
你看到每一个成功的人。
You see everybody that's successful.
你开始觉得自己是唯一一个这样的人。
You start to think that you're the only one.
这会给你带来很多情绪,可能让你感到非常缺乏动力,不愿意去做那些长期来看能彻底改变你生活的事情。
That creates a lot of emotions for you That probably makes you feel very unmotivated to do the things that would change your life pretty drastically over time.
你的研究还表明,你头脑中的这些设定——比如我太晚了、我无法改变、事情从不会在我身上顺利——确实会改变你身体的生理感受。
And your work also says those settings in your mind, I'm too late, I can't change, things don't work out for me, absolutely changes the way your body feels physiologically.
哇。
Wow.
所以我们将讨论一些利用这一点的方法,不仅用于自我觉察,更重要的是让改变变得更轻松。
And so we're gonna talk about some of the ways we can leverage this both for self awareness, but more importantly, to make change easier.
嗯。
Yeah.
让我们学会如何调整这些设定,让我们的思维帮助我们,积极地保持动力,专注于正确的事情,并感受到我们想感受的情绪,就像艾莉莎刚刚通过观看你的演讲所体验到的一样,这太了不起了。
And to have us learn how to change the settings so that our minds are helping us and positively helping us stay motivated and focus on the right things and feel what we wanna feel, which Alyssa just did by just watching your talk, which is incredible.
我只是想说,我觉得我们所有人都感同身受。
I just wanna say that I think I I just feel for all of us.
对吧?
Right?
我们都在尽力而为。
We we're doing our best.
对吧?
Right?
你真的很想找到你的真爱。
You really wanna find the love of your life.
是的。
Yeah.
但你还没找到他们。
And you haven't found them yet.
而且,你知道,你的大脑其实是想帮你的。
And, you know, your brain, like, wants to help.
对吧?
Right?
但它会牢牢抓住这些过于简化的说法,比如‘我永远都会孤单’、‘我永远不够好’,或者你想保持健康,但发生了一些事,你就想‘我的身体不够好’。
And but it it latches on to these oversimplified statements like, I'll always be alone or I'll never be enough or, you know, you wanna be healthy and then you're but something happens and you think, oh, my body's not good enough.
对吧?
Right?
这些,再次强调,都是思维模式。
These again, they're these are mindsets.
它们是我们对自己本质、身体状况以及生活会带来什么的核心信念。
They're core beliefs about the nature essence of who we are, how our bodies are, what life has in store for us.
但我再重复一遍。
But I'll say it again.
它们不是对或错。
Like, they're not true or false.
它们不是对或错。
They are not right or wrong.
这些是过于简化的、高度评价性的判断,我们做出这些判断是为了简化事物,但它们很重要。
They're oversimplified, highly evaluative judgments that we make in order to simplify things, but they matter.
对吧?
Right?
所以要明智地选择,并知道你所做的选择会以某种方式与世界互动,从而使其成为现实。
So choose wisely and know that the choices that you make interact with the world in ways that make it so.
另外,我想回应的是,我们不应为自己的信念、思维模式承担责任,我们可以讨论这一点。
And the other thing I'll just say in response is we are we shouldn't be to blame for our beliefs, our settings in the mind, and we can talk about this.
它们是由我们的文化、成长环境和父母以我们可能永远无法完全理解的方式塑造的。
They're shaped by our cultures, by our upbringing, by our parents in ways that we may never fully understand.
所以,虽然我们不必为这些信念负责,但我们应该意识到自己有能力去改变它们。
So but while we shouldn't be to blame for them, we should know that we can be empowered to change them.
对吧?
Right?
在任何时刻,你都有能力扭转局面。
At any given moment, at any given time, you have the power to flip the switch.
这些思维模式什么时候开始在你的大脑中扎根呢?
When do these settings in the mind start to, like, latch into your brain?
我知道,你这么说很科学。
That's a very scientific way to say it, I know.
但不是的。
But no.
我只是坐在这里想,哦,真有趣。
But I was just sitting here going like, oh, interesting.
显然,婴儿的大脑处于那种像海绵一样的状态时,会迅速吸收语言、学习各种东西,他们学习走路、摔倒,婴儿大脑的学习速度令人惊叹,但从发育的角度来看,那些影响信念、生物学、情绪、动机和注意力的思维模式,究竟从什么时候开始形成呢?
Like, obviously, a baby and their brain in that, like, kind of spongy feta state is absorbing language very rapidly and learning and all this stuff and, you know, they're learning how to walk and fall and all like, it the the rate, that a baby's brain can learn is amazing, but when developmentally do these settings in the mind that impact belief, that impact your biology and emotion and motivation and attention, when do those start happening?
从你出生的那一刻起就开始了,直到你去世的那一刻才停止。
They start happening the minute you're born, and they stop happening the moment you die.
对吧?
Right?
我们的大脑一直在努力理解这个世界,并不断接收这些信息。
Our brains are constantly trying to make sense of the world, and it's taking in this information.
但这太多了。
But it's too much.
信息量太大了,难以吸收。
It's too much to take in.
所以它依赖于这些简化的假设或理论。
So it's relying on these simplified assumptions or theories.
对吧?
Right?
所以就像,哦,这个人是安全的。
So it's like, oh, oh, this person's safe.
确认。
Check.
为你设定好,然后忘掉它。
Set it for you and forget it.
哦,比如,你的身体随着时间推移可以自我修复。
Oh, like, your body can heal itself with time.
哦,检查过了。
Oh, check.
设置好就别管了。
Set that and forget it.
哦,你是那种坐飞机容易晕的人。
Oh, you're the type of person who gets sick on planes.
你最好注意一下这一点。
You better worry about that.
对吧?
Right?
然后它可以被更新,但通常它是在搜索信息。
So and then it can be updated, but oftentimes, it's searching for information.
它会找到它认为重要的内容,然后就固定下来了,如果你明白我的意思的话。
It gets things that it thinks are important, and then it's kind of set, if that makes sense.
所以你知道我刚想到了什么吗?
So You know what I just got?
嗯。
Yeah.
你提到的这些设置都来自外部。
All of these settings that you're talking about came from outside.
而你的工作将帮助我们,或许是你一生中第一次,掀开引擎盖,从内心创建适合你的设置。
And what your work is gonna help us do is maybe for the first time in your entire life, lift up the hood and create settings in your mind from the inside that work for you.
嗯。
Yeah.
这就是我热爱心态科学和心态实践的原因,因为没错,它们来自许多方面——我们的成长环境、有影响力的人、我们所处的文化,但它们也可以由我们自己有意识地设定。
And this is why I love the science of mindset and the practice of mindset because, yeah, they come from many things, from our upbringing, from influential others, from the cultures we're embedded in, but they can also be consciously set by ourselves.
哦。
Oh.
我们可以选择有意识地改变思维的设置,而这正是事情变得真正有趣和富有力量的地方。
We can choose to consciously change the settings of our mind, And that's where things get really fun and empowering.
我非常喜欢你教我们的东西。
I just love what you're teaching us.
这太惊人了,而且完全说得通。
This is incredible, and it makes so much sense.
你相信什么,决定了你的身体如何反应。
What you believe changes how your body responds.
如果这个想法让你震惊,如果你正想着那些你认识的人需要改变思维模式却一直无法做到,那我们来看看克鲁姆博士。
And if that idea is blowing your mind, if you're thinking of people that you know need to change the settings in your mind but you haven't been able to, let's see if Doctor.
克鲁姆能做到,对吧?
Crum can, okay?
把这个分享给你生活中的人。
Share this with people in your life.
让克鲁姆博士
Let Doctor.
来促成改变,这样你就不用亲自做了。
Crum do the change making so you don't have to.
别走开,因为我们还有更多精彩内容。
And don't go anywhere because we've got a heck of a lot more.
还有什么能比这更棒呢?
What more could there be?
更多内容来自克鲁姆博士。
A lot more from Doctor.
短暂休息后,继续听克鲁姆博士的分享。
Crum after this short break.
别走开。
Stay with me.
欢迎回来。
Welcome back.
我是你的朋友梅尔·罗宾斯,我们正在了解这项令人兴奋的研究,以及如何通过斯坦福大学的克鲁姆博士改变我们内心的设定。
It's your buddy Mel Robbins, and you and I are learning about this exciting research and how to change the settings in our mind with Stanford's Doctor.
阿丽雅·克鲁姆。
Aliyah Crum.
让我们深入探讨一下。
Let's dig into it.
你最喜欢的话题之一是安慰剂效应。
One of your favorite topics is the placebo effect.
什么是安慰剂效应?
What is the placebo effect?
它在我们的大脑和身体中是如何起作用的?
How does it work in our minds and our bodies?
然后我们来谈谈你的研究如何证明我们可以利用它来获益。
And then let's talk about how your research proves that we can use it to our advantage.
是的。
Yes.
安慰剂效应通常是在随机安慰剂对照试验的背景下被理解的。
The placebo effect is typically understood in the context of a randomized placebo controlled trial.
对于那些不知道这是什么意思的人来说。
Which is for somebody who doesn't know what the heck that means.
那是什么?
What is that?
嗯。
Yeah.
在临床试验中,人们会被召集进来,然后被随机分配到两个不同的组中。
So in a clinical trial, people are brought in, and they're randomly put into two different groups.
这通常是用来测试一种新药或药物。
It's typically to test a new drug or medication.
其中一半的人会接受真正的药物或治疗。
And, half of the people will get the active drug or medication.
你的意思是,那种真正的药?
You mean, like, the real one?
真正的药。
The real one.
真正的药物。
The real thing.
嗯。
Yeah.
另一半人会拿到外观完全相同的胶囊,但里面什么都没有,或者装的是无效物质。
The other half half will get a the exact same sort of capsule, but there'll be nothing in it, or it'll be an inactive substance.
这就叫做安慰剂。
So that is called the placebo.
好的。
K.
临床试验对于测试新药的具体疗效或作用非常重要。
Now clinical trials are important for testing the specific efficacy or effect of a new drug.
好的。
K.
对吧?
Right?
所以在药物临床试验中,他们会把人召集过来。
So in a clinical drug trial, they'll bring people in.
把他们分成这两组。
They put them in these two groups.
他们会测量效果,然后剔除服用安慰剂时可能出现的任何效果。
They'll measure the effect, and then they'll subtract out any effect that happens to occur when you're on the placebo.
对吧?
Right?
因为假设那不是真实的。
Because the assumption is that's not real.
对吧?
Right?
真正有效的是药丸里的成分。
The what's real is in the capsule.
如果其他任何效果是因为你相信自己服用了真药,或者只是因为服药的行为,或者感受到被关心。
If anything else happened because you believed you were getting a real pill or you were just taking a pill, the act of taking a pill, or the feeling of being cared for.
比如,这些都不是真正的药物。
Like, that's not real medicine.
所以我们就把它们剔除掉。
So let's just subtract that out.
好的。
Okay.
现在有趣的是,人们已经注意到,在几乎所有这些试验中,安慰剂在某种程度上都有效。
Now what's interesting and people have caught on with is that in almost all of these trials, the placebo tends to work to some degree.
让我来翻译一下,是的。
So Let me let me just translate this so Yeah.
确保我跟上了。
Make sure I'm tracking.
嗯。
Mhmm.
所以,如果你在进行某种临床试验,使用一种真正用于治疗某种疾病或类似状况的药物。
So if you're doing, like, some sort of clinical trial and you've got the real drug that's supposed to treat some medical condition or whatever.
嗯。
Mhmm.
你让这一组人服用这种药,然后测量药物是否有效。
You got that group taking that and then you measure whether or not the drug works.
还有一组人服用安慰剂。
There's this whole other group taking the placebo.
基本上,你拿到的是一种假的糖丸。
Basically, you're getting a sugar pill that's fake.
没错。
Yep.
它在临床研究上并没有任何证据表明它能产生任何效果。
It's not got any clinical research behind it in terms of its ability to do anything.
但只要你相信自己正在服用能治疗这种疾病的药物,从生理和生物角度来说,人们的症状在某些情况下确实会有所改善。
But the mere fact that you believe that you are getting medication to help with this condition, you're saying physiologically, biologically, people's symptoms do tend to get better in some cases.
那这说明安慰剂效应到底是什么?
So what does that tell you about what the placebo effect actually is?
没错。
Yeah.
这其实非常有趣,涉及很多不同的因素。
So it's it's really interesting, and it's lots of different things.
所以,安慰剂,就是你单纯相信自己在服用止痛药,没错。
So, like, a placebo, you know, simply believing that you're taking a pain pain reliever Yeah.
就能缓解你的疼痛。
Relieves your pain.
单纯相信自己在服用助眠剂,就能帮助你入睡。
Simply believing you're taking a sleep aid helps you fall asleep.
安慰剂可以缓解哮喘、减弱免疫反应、降低血压。
Placebos can calm your asthma, reduce your immune response, lower your blood pressure.
对吧?
Right?
这不仅仅是安慰剂让人说他们感觉更好,而是确实有真实的神经生物学关联。
And it's not just that these placebos make people say they feel better, but they're actually real neurobiological correlates.
所以,相信自己在服用真正的止痛药,可以促使大脑释放内源性阿片类物质。
So believing you're taking a real pain medication can release endogenous opioids in the brain.
安慰剂型的帕金森药物能激活大脑中的多巴胺能系统。
Placebo Parkinson medications activate dopaminergic systems in the brain.
你可以通过条件反射来建立安慰剂免疫反应。
You can condition placebo immune responses.
对吧?
Right?
所以,你知道,这引出了你刚才提出的问题:到底发生了什么?
So it's you know, it begs the question as you just ask, like, what is actually happening?
嗯。
Yeah.
到底发生了什么?
What is happening?
显然,这并不是那颗假药片本身。
So, obviously, it's not the fake pill.
对吧?
Right?
就像,糖丸里并没有什么魔法。
Like, there's no magic in the sugar pill.
我们认为发生的是这三件事的综合效应。
What we think is happening is it's essentially the combined effect of three things.
首先是你的身体随着时间自我愈合的能力。
So first is the ability of your body to heal itself with time.
嗯。
K.
这一点常常被忽视,但我觉得我们不应该忽视它。
Now this often gets discounted, but I don't think we should discount it.
对吧?
Right?
你的身体拥有惊人且极其高效的系统。
Your body has an incredible, remarkably efficient systems.
对吧?
Right?
你体内有一个促进生长的内分泌系统。
You have a growth promoting endocrine system.
你拥有一个适应性免疫系统。
You have a adaptive immune system.
你拥有一个调节神经系统,它们都在为你工作。
You have a regulating nervous system, and they're all trying to work for you.
对吧?
Right?
因此,身体中的这些系统即使在你没有留意的情况下,也能帮助你从生活中大多数经历中康复。
So those systems in the body and they heal us from most things we experience in life even when we're not paying attention.
但身体的这些自然系统可以通过我们的心态、相信自己处于安全的环境中、相信这种状况已得到控制、相信你会好起来而被激活。
But those natural systems in the body can be activated by our mindsets, by the belief that you're in good hands, that this condition is managed, that you're gonna be okay.
这些信念会优先调动并准备身体中的系统协同工作。
Those beliefs prioritize and prepare the systems to align in your body.
另外,这里重要的一点是,你的信念并非凭空而来。
And, you know, the other thing that's important here is it's not you know, your beliefs don't come out of nowhere.
对吧?
Right?
它们由社会环境、医生所言以及他们的待人态度塑造而成,
They're shaped by the social context, the the words the doctor shares, the their bedside manner,
的
the
药物的标签或品牌。
label or branding of the drugs.
对吧?
Right?
白大褂、医学资质、医疗仪式。
The the white coat, the medical credentials, the medical ritual.
所有这些因素都能塑造我们的心理状态,进而激活身体的自愈系统。
All of these things can shape our mindsets, which can in turn activate the body's self healing systems.
这太酷了。
That's so cool.
所以你是说,你心中的设定几乎可以像安慰剂一样,激活类似X这样的机制?你是怎么利用这一点来获益的?
So are you saying that the settings in your mind can act almost like a placebo and turn on, like, things like x like, how how do you use this to your advantage?
你明白我的意思吗?
You know what I'm saying?
因为我知道,建议并不是说我们只是吃一颗糖丸,对吧?
Like, because I know that the the advice is not we're gonna pop a sugar pill Right.
然后假装现在我有动力去锻炼了。
And then pretend that now I'm motivated to exercise.
但你怎么利用安慰剂效应证明了奶昔研究所证明的这一点呢?
But how can you use the fact that the placebo effect proves what the milkshake study proves?
是的。
Yes.
这是个非常好的问题,因为我们对安慰剂效应往往感到着迷。
So that's such a good question because we get, you know, kind of fascinated by placebo effects.
我们会想,哇,真酷。
We're like, oh, how cool.
比如,你什么都没做,却有了反应。
Like, you respond by doing nothing.
就像,一个假药片神奇地让你感觉更好。
Like, a fake pill magically makes you feel better.
但如果你仔细想想,虽然随机对照试验能很好地测试药物的具体效果,但我们在实际开药或医疗实践中常常忽略了这一点。
But if you think about it, while the randomized control trial is good for testing the specific effects of the medication, it's you know, we what we forget when we actually go out and prescribe the medication or in the practice of medic of medicine.
在真实的医疗情境中,当我们吃下一片药时,它的任何效果都不只是来自药物本身,还来自你对药片有效的信念。
In the reality of medicine, when we take a pill, any effect of that pill is going to come not just from the drug inside, but from the belief that the pill is going to work.
对吧?
Right?
因此,我们所做的一切——无论是药物还是饮食——其总效果都是实际成分和你对其信念的结合。
So the total effect of anything we do, whether that's medication or what we eat, for example, is a combined effect of what's actually in it and what you believe to be true about it.
这真的很有力量。
So this is really empowering.
对吧?
Right?
它不再需要纠结于:到底是药物的作用,还是心理的作用?
It it no longer needs to be, oh, is it the medication or the mind?
是心志战胜物质吗?
Is it, you know, the mind over matter?
不是。
No.
是心志与物质的结合。
It's mind and matter.
是心志与药物的结合。
It's mind and medication.
所以,如果你想康复,想改善症状,对吧?如果药物对你适用,就服用我们最好的药物,但同时也要培养对它的积极心态。
So if you wanna heal, if you want to improve your symptoms, right, take the best medication we have if it's relevant to you, but also adopt useful mindsets about it.
我认为有一项研究能很好地让我的观点具体化,好吧。
I think one study that really helps to kinda make this, what I'm saying, concrete Okay.
这项出色的研究。
Is this great study.
由卡姆·汉森及其同事进行。
It was done by Cam Hanson and colleagues.
他们研究的对象是那些患有持续性偏头痛的人,并追踪了他们在生活中出现偏头痛的情况。
And what they did was they took people who had, you know, persistent migraines, and they followed people as they got these migraines in their life.
每次他们出现偏头痛时,都会给予一颗药片。
And every time they got a migraine, they were given a pill.
有时他们被给予真正的药物——阿莫曲坦,这是一种治疗偏头痛的有效药物。
Now sometimes they were given the real pill, Amaxalt, which is a actual real medication for migraines.
其他时候,他们被给予安慰剂,一种无效的假药。
Other times, they were given a placebo, an inactive fake pill.
这类似于最初的临床试验,但他们设置了一个巧妙的条件。
So like the original clinical trial, but they had a catch to it.
因此,当他们给予阿莫曲坦时,会告诉受试者这是阿莫曲坦。
So what they did was sometimes when they were given the Maxalt, they told the people it was Maxalt.
而其他时候,他们虽然给了受试者真正的阿莫曲坦,却告诉他们这只是安慰剂。
Other times, they told they gave people the real Maxalt, but they told them it was a placebo.
安慰剂。
Placebo.
当他们给人们安慰剂时,有时告诉他们那是Maxalt,有时则告诉他们那是安慰剂。
When they gave people a placebo, sometimes they told them it was Maxalt, and other times they told them it was a placebo.
所以现在你们把所有人都骗了。
So now you're able screwed everybody.
好吧。
Okay.
那你们发现了什么?
So what did you find?
有趣的研究。
Fun studies.
他们发现的结果非常令人着迷。
What they found was was fascinating.
对吧?
Right?
因此,疼痛缓解效果最好的是标为Maxalt的Maxalt。
So the most pain relief came from the Maxalt labeled Maxalt.
好的。
Okay.
所以当你被告知这是正确的药片并服下后,你获得了最大的缓解。
So when you were told it was the right pill and you took the pill, you got the most relief.
当你服用真正的药片并相信它是真药时,你获得了最大的缓解。
When you told when you had the real pill and believed it was a real pill, you had the most relief.
所以你把心理设定和生理机制结合在了一起。
So you got settings in the mind and the biology together.
没错。
Exactly.
得到了
Got
它。
it.
但现在听好了。
But now get this.
当他们被给予真正的药片,但却被告知那是安慰剂时,效果明显减弱。
When they were given the real pill but told it was a placebo, it worked significantly less.
对吧?
Right?
哇哦。
Woah.
所以你有了真正的药片。
So you've got the real pill.
你有了生理基础,但由于心理上不相信,你的大脑降低了药片对生理发挥作用的效果。
You got the biology, but because of the settings in your mind not believing it, your mind reduced the effectiveness of the pill being able to work on the biology.
是的。
Yeah.
这仍然很不可思议。
And it's still crazy.
对吧?
Right?
但它仍然有效,只是没有药物加信念的效果那么好。
And it still worked, but just not as well as the pill plus the belief.
好的。
Okay.
事实上,它的效果和标为Maxalt的安慰剂差不多。
And in fact, it worked about the same as a placebo pill labeled Maxalt.
不会吧。
No way.
所以你认为自己在服用药物,但实际并没有药物成分,而你的大脑依然像在吃药一样起作用。
So then you get the settings that you think you're getting the the the medicine, but the biology isn't there, and your mind still works as if you're taking the pill.
没错。
Exactly.
这太疯狂了。
That's crazy.
太疯狂了,而且这太巧妙了,你知道吗,他们是如何将这些因素区分开来的。
It's crazy, and it's so it's it was beautiful because it was sophisticated and skillful, you know, how they separated these things.
但这些条件表明,药片的止痛效果与信念的止痛效果大致相同。
But those conditions kind of what they suggest is that the pain relieving effect of the pill was about the same as the pain pain relieving effect of the belief.
现在,这项研究中另一个有趣的现象是,标为安慰剂的安慰剂也比什么都不做效果更好。
Now another fun and interesting thing they found in the study was the placebo labeled the placebo was also better than doing nothing.
这就引出了另一个关于理解这一点的讨论。
So that's a whole other conversation on understanding that.
但你为什么认为,即使你知道这不是处方药,服用它仍会对健康产生积极影响?
But why do you think taking a pill that you know isn't the prescription, but taking it anyway has a positive impact on your health?
我认为这是因为人们仍然相信某种东西可能对他们有效。
I think it's because people still believe that something might work for them here.
泰德·卡普舒克是一位了不起的人和科学家,他一直在研究他所称的‘开放标签安慰剂’。
Ted Kapschuk, who's an incredible person and scientist, has been doing a lot of research on what he calls open label placebos.
它们往往有效,但我想,我们仍然不太清楚为什么。
And they tend to work, but I think, you know, we still don't really know why.
我个人认为,这是对安慰剂的信念所致。是的。
I personally think it's the belief in placebos Yeah.
但我们还需要更多的研究。
But we need more research.
但这恰恰回到了你今天教我们的观点:你内心的状态具有极其强大的力量。
But it points back to what you're teaching us today, which is the settings in your mind are wildly powerful.
嗯。
Mhmm.
所以,调整你的内心设定,使其与你想要的结果保持一致。
So change the settings to align with the outcome that you want.
我想稍微梳理一下,因为我非常赞同你说的话。
I I wanna just tease this apart a little bit because I love what you're saying.
我个人完全相信这是真的。
And I personally I 100 believe this is true.
我百分之千相信这是真的。
1000% believe that it's true.
但与此同时,我也希望正在聆听或观看的观众能真正理解你的意思,因为这可能会让人有点困惑,是的。
And at the same time, I wanna be sure that the person listening or who's watching right now and spending time with us, that they really get what you're talking about because it can be a little confusing Yeah.
当我们谈论信念与实际生理状况之间的区别时。
When we talk about belief versus what's actually happening physically.
所以如果有人患有癌症,嗯。
So if somebody has cancer Mhmm.
或者有人正在努力减肥,仅仅相信你会康复或相信你会减肥,并不能治愈癌症。
Or somebody is really struggling to lose weight, just believing that you're gonna heal or believing that you're gonna lose weight, that doesn't cure cancer.
这并不是你的意思。
That's not what you're saying.
对吧?
Right?
不。
No.
而了解到你可以改变这些设定,嗯。
And learning that you can change the settings Mhmm.
理解信念的力量如何塑造你的行为和生理,以实现更好的健康结果,这才是令人兴奋的地方。
And understanding the power of belief to shape your behavior and your biology for better health outcomes is what's super exciting.
关于奶昔和人体生理反应,已有大量临床研究。
And you've got all this clinical research when it comes to milkshakes and people's biology.
你还有一项非常有趣的研究,关于安慰剂药物的作用。
You also have this really fascinating study on placebo drugs.
这些药物能对人的身体产生实际的生理影响。
And how it has actual physiological impact in people's bodies.
这证明了你头脑中这些‘设置’的力量及其重要性。
And so it proves the power of the settings in your mind and why they matter.
因此,我想让这一点变得非常实用,因为很多人非常关心自己吃的东西。
And so I wanna make this, like, super practical because, so many people are concerned about what they eat.
他们希望减重或更健康。
They would like to lose weight or be healthier.
他们想坚持某种饮食或锻炼计划。
They wanna be able to stick to a diet or do an exercise routine.
对于你头脑中的这些‘设置’,你对他们有什么建议?
What do you say to them about the settings in your mind
和心态?
and mindset?
关于癌症的这个问题非常重要。
So this question about cancer is really important.
对吧?
Right?
这不应该是意志战胜物质。
It isn't it shouldn't be mind over matter.
对吧?
Right?
而应该是意志与物质的结合。
It should be mind and matter.
所以如果你被诊断出癌症,你应该接受最适合你的治疗。
So if you're diagnosed with cancer, like, you should get the best treatment for you.
我们已经有了针对癌症的优秀药物和疗法。
We have great drugs and therapies for cancer.
十年前、二十年前还无法治愈的许多癌症,如今已经可以治愈了,这得益于辛勤工作的生物学家和科学家们,这是非常美好的事情。
Many of the cancers that were incurable ten, twenty years ago are curable now, and that is a beautiful thing thanks to hardworking biologists and scientists.
所以我们应该采用这些疗法。
So we should take those.
对吧?
Right?
但我想补充的是,我们也应该思考我们的思维方式。
But what I would add is we should also think about our mindsets.
那么,我们对癌症、对它在我们生命中的意义有着怎样的心态?
So what are the mindsets we have about cancer, about what it means for our life?
我们对治疗和所接受的护理又抱有怎样的心态?
What are our mindsets about the treatment and the care we're getting?
事实证明,这些心态也同样重要,它们能彻底改变一个人在经历癌症时的整体体验。
It turns out those mindsets matter too, and they can radically shape the whole experience that someone is having when they are going through cancer.
作为研究心态及其对健康影响的世界知名专家,当你正在接受癌症治疗或面对其他令人恐惧的健康诊断时,最理想的心态是什么?
As a world renowned researcher on mindset and its impact on health, what is the mindset that is the best mindset to have when you are going through a cancer treatment or you're facing some other kind of scary health diagnosis?
是的。
Yeah.
我们已经就这个问题研究了近十年。
So we've been working on this question for nearly ten years now.
我与莉迪亚·沙皮拉医生、乔纳森·巴里克医生、大卫·斯皮格尔、肖恩·齐安等人合作。
I'm working with Lydia doctor Lydia Shapira, doctor Jonathan Barrick, David Spiegel, Sean Zian, and others.
我们发现,当你患有癌症时,最好的心态并不是简单地积极思考。
And, you know, what we found is that, you know, the best mindset to be in when you have cancer, first, it's not just think positive.
也不是否认自己患有癌症,或一味相信自己会没事。
It's not just believe you don't have cancer or believe you'll be okay.
这些实际上是逃避现实的表现。
Those are actually acts of denial.
当你患有癌症时,最好的心态是认为这种情况是可以控制的。
The best mindset to be in when you have cancer is the mindset that this is manageable.
将这种心态与认为这是灾难性的想法相对比。
Contrast that to the mindset of this is a catastrophe.
这是无法控制的。
It's unmanageable.
对吧?
Right?
我们发现的另一个对癌症患者非常有用的思维模式是,他们的身体是有能力的。
Another mindset that we found is very useful for people going through cancer is the mindset that their bodies are capable.
许多被诊断出癌症的人觉得自己的身体辜负了他们,认为身体背叛了他们,或者至少目前没有正常运作。
Many people who are diagnosed with cancer feel like their bodies have let them down, that their bodies have turned on them or at, you know, at best are just sort of not working right now.
我们在多项研究中发现,包括那些我们努力引导人们转变思维模式的试验中,采用‘癌症是可以控制的’、‘我的身体是有能力的’这种思维模式,能深刻地改变他们的整体体验。
And what we found in a number of studies, including trials where we work to inspire people into different mindsets, is that moving to adopt the mindset that cancer is manageable, their bodies are capable, is profoundly transformative in shaping their whole experience.
因此,这改变了他们在生活中的功能质量,也减轻了他们在化疗期间的生理症状,如恶心、疲劳、胃部不适等。
So it changes their quality of functioning in life, and it also reduces physical symptoms like nausea and fatigue and upset stomach and other things when they're going through chemotherapy.
所以我们还不知道。
So we don't know.
目前,我们正在进行另一项试验,研究如何改变这些思维模式,并检测人们的血液样本,观察与癌症预后相关的免疫标志物。
Right now, we're doing another trial looking at how to change these mindsets, and we're measuring people's blood samples, and we're looking at immune markers that are associated with cancer outcomes.
所以,我们还不知道这些试验的结果,但我愿意赌上一大笔钱,认为这些心态不仅仅停留在表面。
So we don't know yet the results of those trials, but I would bet a lot of money that these mindsets, don't just stay, you know, above the skin.
它们正在深入体内,影响着我们身体的反应。
They're getting down, and they're influencing our body's response.
我很兴奋你能解释大脑中的机制以及证明你的思想与身体相连、心态影响生理的科学研究。
Well, I'm excited that you're explaining the mechanisms in the brain and the research that proves that your mind and body are linked and the settings impact your biology.
鉴于所有这些令人惊叹的研究,以及你专注于健康,我真的很想让这些内容变得非常实用。
And given all this amazing research and given that you focus on health, I really wanna make this super practical.
许多人 struggle with motivation、减肥、健康饮食、坚持锻炼和照顾自己、保持健康。
And so many people struggle with motivation and losing weight and, you know, eating healthy or staying consistent with exercise and taking care of themselves, getting fit.
Crum医生,你对他们关于心态设定的力量有什么想说的吗?
Doctor Crum, what do you wanna say to them about the power of the settings in your mind?
首先,我想说,我做研究不仅仅是因为它有趣。
So first, I wanna say that, you know, I don't do research only because it's interesting.
对吧?
Right?
我做研究很大程度上是因为我有想要解决的问题,或者看到别人面临的问题,希望帮助他们解决。
Like, I do research in large part because I have problems I wanna solve or I see problems in others that I wanna help solve.
事实上,奶昔研究的想法源于我自己正在经历的一个问题,那就是减肥和控制饮食的困扰,很多人都有类似的问题。
So, in fact, the stud the the idea for the milkshake study came from a problem that I was struggling with myself, and that was struggling with diet and weight, which a lot of people have.
而奶昔研究的灵感其实是在我于芝士蛋糕工厂吃晚餐时突然想到的。
And the idea actually for the milkshake study came to me when I was having dinner at The Cheesecake Factory.
天哪。
Oh my god.
好吧。
Okay.
所以你跟我在一起,对吧。
So you're with me here.
我猜你曾经去过芝士蛋糕工厂。
I assume you've been to a Cheesecake Factory
在某个时候。
at some point.
是的。
Yes.
所以我和我妈妈在芝士蛋糕工厂。
And so I was at The Cheesecake Factory with my mother.
如果你没去过芝士蛋糕工厂,他们的菜单是螺旋装订的,大概有400道菜吧?
And if you haven't been to The Cheesecake Factory, they have a menu that is spiral bound and probably has, what, 400 items on it?
我觉得这是我这辈子见过的最大菜单,而且他们提供的分量超级大。
I don't it is the biggest menu I've ever seen in my entire life, and they give monster portions.
好吧。
Okay.
所以我们当时在这家餐厅。
So we're at this restaurant.
你和你妈妈在一起。
You're with your mom.
这是个庆祝或和人放松聚会的好地方。
Great place to go to celebrate or hang out with somebody.
是的。
Yes.
所以我和我妈妈在一起。
So I'm with my mom.
我们吃了一顿很棒的饭。
We had a great meal.
饭快吃完了。
It was the end of the meal.
盘子已经清理干净并撤走了,我面临着一个显而易见却又充满存在主义意味的问题。
The plates were cleaned and cleared, and I was faced with this obvious but, you know, existential question.
好吧。
Okay.
还是我要点一份芝士蛋糕?
Or am I gonna order the cheesecake?
好吧。
Okay.
所以,你和我在一起,对吧。
So I you're with me here.
所以,任何在这里有过体重或饮食困扰的人都知道,这是一个令人压力很大的问题。
So anybody here who's struggled with their weight or diet knows that this is a stressful question.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这之所以令人压力大,是因为它其实是一个两难困境。
And it's stressful because it's really a catch 22.
你面临着两个糟糕的选择。
You're, like, faced with two bad options.
一方面,你可以放纵自己,吃一块芝士蛋糕。
So on the one hand, you could let yourself go and have the cheesecake.
对吧?
Right?
但如果你在控制体重,吃的时候就会带着一种隐秘的内疚和羞耻感。
But if you're watching your weight, you're eating it with this sneaky sense of guilt and shame as you eat.
或者你可以保持自律,克制自己。
Or you could, you know, be virtuous and restrain.
但如果你像我一样,那样做会让你对整个体验感到有些不满足。
But if you're like me, that would leave you leaving the whole experience, like, somewhat unsatisfied.
就像K。
Like K.
毕竟这里是芝士蛋糕工厂。
It is the Cheesecake Factory after all.
当时我正为这个决定纠结不已,突然想到:如果我们的信念——如果我对这块芝士蛋糕的信念——能改变身体对它的反应呢?
So here I was agonizing over that decision when the thought occurred to me, you know, what if our beliefs what if my beliefs about this cheesecake could change my body's response to it?
我想,我希望如此。
And I thought I hoped.
我当时想,也许就像安慰剂效应那样。
I was like, maybe, like the placebo effect.
如果我只是相信这块芝士蛋糕对我有益,我的身体就会像它真的有益一样做出反应。
If I just believed this cheesecake was good for me, that my body would respond as if it was good for me.
对吧?
Right?
所以,奶昔研究的想法就是这样产生的。
So that's where the idea for the milkshake study was born.
哦。
Oh.
嗯。
Yeah.
所以,快进到我们做了
So fast forward, we did the
你点芝士蛋糕了吗?
did you order the cheesecake?
你知道的,我没点芝士蛋糕。
You know, I didn't order the cheesecake.
我没点芝士蛋糕的原因是,当时我一直在 obsessively 计算卡路里。
And the reason I didn't order the cheesecake was that at the time, I had been obsessively counting calories.
我当时一直在为体重问题困扰。
I had been struggling with my weight.
我有饮食失调的问题。
I had disordered eating.
我曾经经历过暴食催吐期。
I had I had gone through a period of bulimia.
那时我已经康复了,但仍然有点失控,我摄入的热量远远超过了我给自己设定的2000卡路里。
I was recovered at that time, but it was still sort of a, like I was well over the 2,000 calories that I allotted myself.
我心里想:我不能吃这块芝士蛋糕,但那种状态其实并不愉快。
I was like, I will not have this cheesecake, but it was not a very pleasant state to be in.
所以我想,好吧。
So I hoped, like, okay.
也许我可以找到一种方法,真正做到既拥有蛋糕又吃掉它——如果我能对它抱有积极的想法的话。
Maybe I can just make maybe I can find a way to literally have my cake and eat it too, like, if I just believed good things about it.
于是,我带着这种美好的幻想参与了这项研究。
So I kinda went into that study with this wishful thinking.
好。
K.
再快进到我们的发现,正如你所知,我们的信念确实很重要。
And fast forward to what we found, which, as you know, is that our beliefs did matter.
对吧?
Right?
在这种情况下,我们对芝士蛋糕的信念,或者说人们对奶昔的信念,改变了身体的生理反应。
What we believed about the cheesecake, in this case, what people believed about the milkshake changed their body's physical response.
正如我们之前讨论的,仅这一点就已经非常激进,因为它颠覆了“摄入热量与消耗热量”的等式。
Now that alone was radical as we've discussed because it took that calories in calories out equation and flipped it on its head.
嗯。
Mhmm.
但当我开始将这些结果应用到自己的生活中时,我想:好吧。
But when I started to apply these results in my own life, when I was like, okay.
我从中学到了什么?
What did I learn from this?
我怎样才能让这对我有用呢?
How can I make this useful to me?
我意识到,奶昔研究的教训更加深刻和重要。
What I realized was that the lessons from the milkshake study were even more profound and important.
我意识到,我们——我的意思是,我以为会发生的事,实际上恰恰相反。
And I realized that we you know, what I thought was gonna happen was the exact opposite as what actually happened.
所以,当你在进食时,你希望发生的是你的饥饿素水平下降。
So if you're eating, right, what you want to have happen is you want your ghrelin levels to drop.
嗯。
Mhmm.
对吧?
Right?
因为这会向你的大脑发出你已经吃饱的信号。
Because that will signal to your brain that you've had enough.
对吧?
Right?
但我们发现,当人们认为自己在健康、合理地饮食,也就是在控制饮食时,他们的身体却反应为好像没吃到足够多的东西。
But what we found was when people thought they were eating healthy, sensibly, sort of, you know, restraining their eating, they their bodies responded as if they weren't getting enough.
真正更好的心态其实是放纵的心态。
It was actually the mindset of indulgence that was the better mindset to have.
对吧?
Right?
因为放纵的心态——即使喝的是完全相同的奶昔——也能让他们的胃饥饿素水平出现理想下降的反应。
Because the mindset of indulgence, even though it was the exact same milkshake, led to them the the the appropriate the ideal response of ghrelin levels falling.
哇。
Wow.
这对我来说简直令人震惊,因为我意识到自己一直以来都做反了。
So this was, like, mind blowing for me because I realized I had been going about it all wrong.
我一直咬牙坚持节食,但却是以一种克制、理性、觉得自己吃得不够的心态在努力。
Like, I had been, you know, sort of gritting my teeth trying to diet, but I was doing all the hard work in a mindset of restraint, a mindset of sensibility, a mindset of I'm not getting enough.
而这种心理状态,恰恰抵消了我节食时所付出的努力。
And that setting of my mind was counteracting the hard work that I was at dieting.
所以我意识到,梅尔,我意识到,这根本不是关于奶昔的问题。
So I realized, Mel, I realized, like, it's not about the milkshake.
也不是关于芝士蛋糕的问题。
It's not about the cheesecake.
对吧?
Right?
这项研究真正的关键在于,进食时,放纵的心态是最好的心态。
The real gem in this study is that the mindset of indulgence is the best mindset to be in when you eat.
让我明确一下我所说的‘放纵’是什么意思。
And let me be clear about what I mean by indulgence.
对吧?
Right?
根据这个词的原始定义,放纵意味着允许自己享受快乐。
Indulgence by the original definition of the the word, it means to allow oneself to enjoy the pleasure of.
对吧?
Right?
所以这是否意味着你可以随时吃芝士蛋糕和奶昔?
So so does this license you to eat cheesecake and milkshakes all the time?
不。
No.
当然不是。
Of course not.
但当我吃东西时,无论是芝士蛋糕、沙拉还是蔬菜,我都会以享受的心态去吃。
But now when I eat, whether that's a cheesecake or a salad or, like, a side of veggies, I try to eat in a mindset of indulgence.
所以如果我再次来到芝士蛋糕工厂,我会用这种心态吃完整餐。
So if I find myself back at the Cheesecake Factory, I'll eat the whole meal in that mindset.
对吧?
Right?
我发现,当我用这种心态吃完一整餐时,我甚至不想吃芝士蛋糕了。
And what I found is that when I eat the whole meal in that mindset, I don't even want the cheesecake.
当然,有时候我也会吃芝士蛋糕。
Of course, sometimes I'll have cheesecake.
当我吃芝士蛋糕时,如果我真的想吃,我也会以享受的心态来吃。
And when I have cheesecake, if I really want it, I'll eat that in a mindset of indulgence too.
医生。
Doctor.
克鲁姆,我还有更多问题,但我想先暂停一下,因为我想对正在YouTube上看或收听的你说些话。
Krum, I have so many more questions, but I wanna take a quick pause because here's what I wanna say to you if you're watching this on YouTube or you're listening.
如果这场对话让你以一种全新的方式看待事物,请不要独自保留这份领悟。
If this conversation is getting you to see things in an entirely new way, do not keep this to yourself.
我的意思是,你难道不希望在中学时就知道这些吗?
I mean, don't you wish you knew this in middle school?
请把这段内容分享给你的家人。
Please share this with your family.
分享给你的朋友,因为任何了解自己思维模式的人,都会感激这份洞察,而你也将帮助他们掌握自己的生活,实现积极的改变。
Share it with your friends because anybody that learns about the settings in their mind, they're gonna appreciate it and you're gonna have helped them take control of their life and make positive changes.
这难道不是太棒了吗?
Isn't this so awesome?
我们才刚刚触及表面,所以别走开。
We haven't even scratched the surface yet, so don't go anywhere.
我们马上回来。
We'll be right back.
欢迎回来。
Welcome back.
我是你的朋友梅尔·罗宾斯,今天你和我要学习如何用斯坦福大学的博士的方法改变我们内心的设定。
It's your buddy Mel Robbins, and today you and I are learning how to change the settings in our mind with Stanford's Doctor.
阿里亚·克鲁姆。
Aliyah Crum.
所以,博士。
So Doctor.
克鲁姆,我们必须好好梳理一下,因为这太棒了。
Crum, this we have to unpack because this is amazing.
是的。
Yeah.
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