如何打造你想要的生活（即使感到不堪重负、筋疲力尽和迷茫时）

嘿，我是你的朋友梅尔，欢迎收听梅尔·罗宾斯播客。今天的节目邀请你探索那些可能曾认为遥不可及的可能性。因为今天的嘉宾——宇航员兼生物航天研究员凯莉·吉拉尔迪，她掌握着将梦想转化为现实的秘密密码。她将讲述自己从俱乐部衣帽间服务员成长为宇航员的非凡故事。

Hey. It's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. Today's episode is an invitation to explore possibilities that you may have thought were beyond your reach. Because our guest today, she has the hidden code for transforming dreams into reality. Astronaut and bioastronautics researcher Kelly Girardi is here with a remarkable story of how she went from working as a coat check girl at a club to becoming an astronaut.

她将直面分享三条真理。第一条：规则就是用来打破的。第二条：无论你做什么都会被人评判。第三条：逃避不是力量，而是自我毁灭。数百万粉丝追随凯莉不仅因为她带你幕后探秘、遨游太空（这些今天都会听到），更重要的是她敢于公开讨论多数人避而不谈的话题。

She is here to share three truths head on. Truth number one, rules are made to be broken. Truth number two, people will judge you no matter what you do. And truth number three, hiding isn't strength, it's self destruction. See, millions of people follow Kelly, not just because she takes you behind the scenes and up into space, which you're gonna hear all about today, but more importantly, she takes you to the places most people don't discuss publicly.

对她而言，这意味着向数百万网友分享不孕症和试管婴儿治疗的历程——起伏、心碎与希望。凯莉证明当你说出真相，无论多混乱可怕，你就能重获力量。事实上，追求更广阔人生可能并实现它，永远不嫌太老、太年轻或太迟。本期节目将给你她的蓝图，从今天开始看见人生的更多可能。

For her, that means sharing her infertility and IVF journey to millions of people online. The ups, the downs, the heartbreaks, the hopes. Kelly is proof that the moment you speak the truth, no matter how messy or scary it may seem, you reclaim your power. The fact is you're not too old, too young, or too late to imagine a bigger possibility for your life and to make it a reality. This episode will give you her blueprint to see bigger possibilities for your life starting today.

嘿，我是你的朋友梅尔。当我写《让他们去理论》这本书时，我知道它会帮到人，但没想到这样——连续37周稳居《纽约时报》畅销书榜首（目前仍在延续），亚马逊年度销量冠军近一年，售出近700万册，翻译成63种语言。

Hey, it's your friend Mel. And you know, when I wrote the Let Them Theory book, I knew it would help people, but I didn't expect this. Number one New York Times bestseller for thirty seven straight weeks and counting. Number one on Amazon for almost the entire year. Almost 7,000,000 copies sold, 63 languages.

这太不可思议了。想知道为什么这是全球最畅销的书吗？我告诉你原因——因为它有效。当你说出"随他们去"这两个简单的词，整个人生就会变得更好。

It's unbelievable. Do you wanna know why it's the biggest book in the world? I'll tell you why. Because it works. When you say two simple words, let them, your whole life changes for the better.

当你说出"让我来"这两个词，你就会变得更好。《让他们去理论》教你如何保护时间和精力，专注于真正重要的事：你的目标、梦想和幸福。还在等什么？立即访问melrobbins.com/letthem获取你的专属副本，或送给你爱的人。嘿，我是你的朋友梅尔，欢迎收听梅尔·罗宾斯播客。

When you say the two words, let me, you change for the better. The let them theory teaches you how to protect your time and energy so you can focus it on what actually matters, your goals, your dreams, your happiness. So what are you waiting for? Head to melrobbins.com/letthem to grab your copy today or get one for someone you love. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.

能与你共度这段时光真是莫大荣幸。如果你是首次收听或经人推荐而来，我想花点时间亲自欢迎你加入梅尔·罗宾斯播客大家庭。你即将认识科学界、航天领域和社交媒体上最势不可挡的人物之一——凯莉·吉拉尔迪，她是国际宇航科学院生物航天研究员兼载人航天运营总监。

It is such an honor to be together and to spend this time with you. And if you're a new listener or you're here because somebody shared this with you, I just wanted to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. You are about to meet one of the most unstoppable forces in science, space, and on social media. Her name, Kelly Girardi. She is a bioastronautics researcher and director of human spaceflight operations at the International Institute for Astronautical Sciences.

她于2023年首次参与国际宇航科学研究院的科学任务飞往太空。2026年，她将再次升空，以宇航员身份领导她的第二次研究任务。她还完成了超过150次微重力研究飞行任务，包括与麻省理工学院、加拿大国家研究委员会以及加拿大航天局的合作。她不仅在实验室或太空中进行这些工作，还向公众展示幕后的运作过程。凯莉已建立起全球超过200万粉丝的观众群体。

She first flew on a science mission to space with the International Institute for Astronautical Sciences in 2023. She's headed back up into space in 2026 to lead her second research mission as an astronaut. She has also completed more than 150 microgravity research flight campaigns, including work with MIT and the National Research Council of Canada and the Canadian Space Agency. And she's not just doing it in the lab or in space, she's also bringing you behind the scenes and showing you how this all works in public. Kelly has built a global audience of more than 2,000,000 followers.

《时代》杂志刚刚将她列入全球百大创作者榜单，而今天，她来到这里，向你递上从今天开始更大胆梦想的蓝图。请和我一起欢迎宇航员凯莉·吉拉尔迪来到梅尔·罗宾斯的播客节目。

Time Magazine just named her to the top 100 creators list, and today, she is here to hand you her blueprint for dreaming bigger starting today. Please help me welcome astronaut Kelly Girardi to the Mel Robbins podcast.

非常感谢。能来到这里我真的很兴奋。

Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.

我们很高兴你是坐飞机而不是飞船来的。是的。我们迫不及待想深入了解你的故事以及你将分享的精彩内容。

Well, we're excited you hopped on a plane, not a spaceship. Yeah. We cannot wait to dig into your story and the amazing things you're gonna share.

谢谢。我很乐意

Thank you. I'd love

首先，请你直接对现在收听节目的听众说几句话，简单分享一下如果他们认真对待你今天要分享的所有内容，并将其应用到生活中，他们的生活可能会有什么不同。

to start by having you speak directly to the person who is with us right now and just share a little bit about what might be different about their life if they take everything to heart that you're about to share with us today and they apply it to their life.

好的，当然。我曾经观察他人和他们生活中的成功轨迹。我会特别关注那些对我来说最不切实际、遥不可及的成就和成功，很容易就会把它们归为‘非凡之事只属于非凡之人’。但我认为更有趣的真相是：普通人也能让自己具备成就非凡的能力，而且你永远都不晚开始这么做。

Yeah. Absolutely. I used to look at people and the success real of their lives. And I used to look at those accomplishments and those successes, the ones that felt most unrealistic for me and out of reach, and it was very easy for me to dismiss those and to write it off as extraordinary things are reserved for extraordinary people. And I think the much more interesting truth is that ordinary people can make themselves capable of extraordinary things, and it is never too late for you to do that.

我认为这帮助我调整了想象力的限制器，或许也能帮你调整自己的想象力限制器，让你敢于梦想更宏大的目标。

And I think that's something that has helped me adjust the limiter on my imagination, and it might be something that can help you adjust the limiter on your imagination as well to give yourself permission to dream bigger dreams.

那我们现在就开始吧。首先，我们要强调普通人也能成就不凡之事。

Well, let's just launch right now. I mean, of all, let's highlight that, that ordinary people can do extraordinary things.

完全正确。你有能力让自己变得能够成就非凡。你一直都这么认为吗？并非如此。不是的。

Absolutely. You're capable of making yourself capable of extraordinary things. Did you always feel this way? Not always. No.

我认为这就是训练思维以不同角度思考的力量——过去我总认为那些成就是专属于特定人群的，认为那些非凡成就只属于'他'或'她'这样的天选之人。但更残酷的真相是：你可以通过努力让自己具备这种能力。

And I I think that's the power in training your mindset to think about it a little bit differently because I used to look at that and say, that was meant to be for that person. That was meant to be for her or for him. These are extraordinary people. Like, success just falls on extraordinary people. And the harder truth is that you can make yourself capable of that.

我也很欣赏你提到的关于...

I also loved what you said about that you

可以学会调整限制器

can learn to adjust the limiter

没错。

Yeah.

关于你自己的想法。你觉得

On your own thinking. What do you

这是什么意思？就是说你可以重写自己的极限。你有能力审视今天的愿景板，然后放大30倍、50倍、100倍。唯一施加这个限制的人是你自己。所以当我说调整你想象力的限制器时，我指的是允许自己想象自己是那个世界的一部分。

mean by that? Just that you can rewrite your limits. You are capable of taking a look at what your vision board looks like today, and then zooming out times 30, times 50, times a 100. The only one applying the limit on that is you. And so when I say adjusting the limiter on your imagination, what I'm talking about is giving yourself permission to envision yourself in that world as part of that world.

就是去做那些让你感到如此着迷、激励和鼓舞的事情，并允许自己思考，如果我追逐那个梦想或尝试找到通往那里的道路，那会是什么样子？

It's doing those things that are so intriguing and motivating and inspiring to you and giving yourself permission to think about, well, what would it look like if I chased that dream or if I tried to find a path to get there? Well, you

有趣的是，我从你的故事中提取的一个真理是，规则就是用来打破的。事实上，当你真正思考规则并调整自己大脑中的限制器时，你基本上会开始问自己，等一下，到底是谁制定了这些规则？没错。我喜欢你故事的地方在于，你是极少数真正进入太空的女性之一。

know what's interesting is one of the truths that I extract from your story is that rules are made to be broken. And in fact, when you really think about rules and you adjust the limiter in your own brain Yeah. You basically start to ask yourself, wait a minute, who made up the rules anyway? Exactly. And what I love about your story is that you are one of the very few women who have actually traveled into space.

我想从头开始讲起，因为你有一个难以置信的故事，引领你成为今天的宇航员。所以让我们回到最初。

And I just wanna start from the beginning because you have an unbelievable story that led you to where you are today as an astronaut. So let's go back to the beginning.

是的。我出生在佛罗里达州的朱庇特市，这个名字对热爱太空的人来说非常贴切。我父母开玩笑说，我拥有前排座位观看最后的边疆——就在海岸边的卡纳维拉尔角。我有幸目睹了人类的太空飞行，这段经历在我青少年时期留下了深刻印象。

Yeah. I was born in Jupiter, Florida, which is very on brand for someone who loves space. And my parents did joke that I had front row seats to the final frontier right up the coast, Cape Canaveral. I had the privilege of watching human spaceflight, and to have that in the backdrop of my adolescence, I do think it made a big impression on me. Okay.

那么让我们

So let

我只是想确认一下，对于不了解佛罗里达州朱庇特市的听众来说。是的。不知道朱庇特，佛罗里达。明白吗？

me just make sure for the person who's listening Yeah. That doesn't know Jupiter, Florida. Okay?

东海岸。

East Coast.

基本上就是说，你长大的地方可以仰望天空，看到从卡纳维拉尔角发射的火箭？

Basically saying that you grew up in a neighborhood where you could look out to the sky and see the rockets launching from Cape Canaveral?

完全正确。在晴朗的日子里，你能看到一切，那景象非常壮观。至今仍是如此。我从未失去过观看火箭发射的魔力。

Absolutely. On a clear day, you can see everything, and it's extraordinary. It still is. I've never lost the magic of watching that

充满敬畏。那么当你还是个小女孩时，看到这些，你是否想过有一天我也要坐上其中一艘，或者这对你产生了怎样的影响？

in awe. And so seeing that when you were a little girl, were you like, I wanna be in one of those one day, or how did that impact you?

那时我还没意识到自己也能成为其中的一部分。这回到我们最初聊的话题，那感觉就像那是非凡的。那些是非凡的人类。那是专为非凡人类保留的事情。所以尽管我对它怀有无比的敬意，深受其启发，但我并没有立刻意识到，自己有可能参与到像太空飞行这样非凡的事业中。

It hadn't clicked for me yet that I could be a part of that. And goes back to what we were speaking about in the beginning, it felt like that's extraordinary. Those are extraordinary humans. That is something reserved for extraordinary humans. So while I had an immense appreciation for it, I was incredibly inspired by it, it didn't necessarily click for me right away that I could ever hope to be a part of something so extraordinary as spaceflight.

嗯，其中一个

Well, one of the

此刻当你在聆听或观看时，我想邀请你做的是：思考一个你认为非凡的人或事物，你曾为其可能性设限，心想'他们做的太非凡了，而我不过是个普通人'。凯莉，我们将从你身上学到的是：你可以调整这种限制，开始意识到自己同样能成就非凡。

things I wanna invite you to do as you're listening or watching this right now is I want you to think about someone or something that you believe is extraordinary, that you have put a limiter on what's possible because you've said, oh, well, that's extraordinary what they've done, but I'm just ordinary over here. And I think what we're gonna learn from you, Kelly, is that there are ways that you adjust that limiter and you start to realize that you're capable of extraordinary things too.

完全正确。有时我们甚至没意识到自己设下了限制，直到开始剖析它。

Absolutely. And sometimes we don't even realize that we've applied that limit until we start to unpack it.

还记得你从'如果发生'转变为'终将实现'的那个转折点吗？准备与你对话时，我读到篇文章讲你如何在'探险家俱乐部'获得衣帽间工作——能带我回到你的人生那个场景吗？佛罗里达小女孩看着航天飞机升空，

Do you remember when you went from going, if it happens to someday this will happen? Because as I was getting ready to talk to you, I read this article about how you ended up having a job working in the coat check Oh, yeah. The Explorers Club. And so I would love to go back in time a little bit from you're a little girl growing up in Florida. You can see the space shuttle launching up into the sky.

后来你上大学，最终在那个著名的探险家俱乐部工作，负责衣帽间。能描述下那个生命片段吗？当时你多大？

You go to university. You then end up having a job, right, at some famous club called the explorers club, and you were working in the coat check. Can you put me at the scene of that moment in your life? How old were you? Yes.

为什么选择那份工作？

And why did you take that job?

那时我还在大学。探险家俱乐部很特别——这个科学组织专为探险家设立，但成员都是传奇人物。

Yeah. So this was college. K. And the Explorers Club had stood out to me. It's a scientific organization that is dedicated to explorers, but it its membership is so legacy.

会员包括首抵北极者、南极第一人、月球表面首批踏足者、海洋最深处先驱。他们真正突破了人类边界。发现这个俱乐部后我就被迷住了，只想接近这些非凡之人，幻想通过潜移默化获得他们的特质。我对太空和科学充满热忱，而这些人是各自领域的顶尖翘楚。

The members were first to the North Pole, first to the South Pole, first to step on the surface of the moon, first to the deepest point of the ocean. Just really remarkable boundary pushing. And and I was captivated by that once I discovered that this club existed, and I just wanted to be around those extraordinary people. I was hoping, I don't know, maybe by osmosis that some of it would just rub off on me. I had this intense interest in space and in science, and these were people who were at the head of their fields and the top of their fields.

所以在大学时，我就想，当然，我会去做衣帽寄存的工作。而且我得说我真的做得很好。我有自己的一套方法。我非常认真地对待它。我觉得这又是我不断反思自己职业生涯时的一个基本主题。

And so in college, it's like, yeah, of course, I will do coat check. And I will say I was really good at it. I had a system. I took it very seriously. I think that's another sort of just fundamental, theme that I keep reflecting on my own career.

无论面前是什么工作，我都会全力以赴，付出150%的努力。

No matter what the job is in front of me, I'm gonna try to give a 150% to it.

为什么这很重要？

Why is that important?

因为你必须寻找重要的工作，而不仅仅是光鲜的工作。就像这是维持运转的基础工作。即便在别人看来可能只是衣帽寄存这样的小事，你也要证明自己能以150%的投入做到最好。这其实无关工作本身，而是关乎你在任何环境、任何情况下展现出的执行力、对细节的关注，以及承担更多责任的能力。

Because you have to seek the important work and not just the glamorous work. It's like this is the work that keeps the lights on. This being able to show that you are capable of crushing it for a 150% even when it's something that someone else might look at and say, it's just coat check. But it's not. It's your ability in whatever scenario you're in, whatever situation you're in to demonstrate your follow through, your attention to detail, your capability to be given more responsibility.

这就是我的态度

That's how I looked at

我想在这里停下来强调一下，因为这非常重要。这份工作之所以重要，是因为你通过付出150%的努力让它变得重要。对吧。

it. Well, I wanna stop and just pause here because I think this is very important. The reason why that is important work is because you made it important Yeah. By giving it a 150%. Right.

这是太多人错过的人生课程。你如何做任何事，就反映出你如何做一切事。这个例子让我特别欣赏，也是我让你分享的原因——当时你还在大学。对吧。

And this is a life lesson that too many people miss. How you do anything is how you do everything. Right. And what I love about this example, and it's why I wanted you to share it, is that you're in college. Yeah.

你知道这是一种热爱。你并没有完全遵循传统路径。没错。但你让自己靠近其他探索者，因为你想成为其中一员。是的。

You know this is a passion. You're not exactly following a traditional route. Right. But you are putting yourself in proximity to other explorers because you wanna be one. Yes.

你接受了唯一能让你接近目标的工作

You take the only job that you can get in proximity

并且乐在其中。

And happily.

乐在其中，然后你通过全力以赴展现150%的努力来颠覆现状。是的。所以我需要强调这一点，因为人们总在寻找下一个机会，却忽略了眼前最明智的行动——尽可能接近你感兴趣的事物。接受任何你能做的事，无论有无报酬，然后付出150%的努力。只要投入其中，你就能塑造自己的声誉

Happily, and then you destroy it by showing up and giving a 150%. Yeah. And so I need to highlight that because everybody's always looking for the next thing, and you miss the smartest move in front of you, which is get as close as you can to the thing that you're interested in. Take anything you can do, whether you're getting paid or not, and then do a 150%. You can design your own reputation if you put

通过实际行动让声誉成真。这是我早年就领悟的道理。每份工作我都会拿出纸笔，写下希望同事用来形容我的词汇。所有工作都是如此。甚至在衣帽间工作时，我也写下希望被认可的品质形容词。

in the work to make it true. That is something that I learned very early on. Every job that I've ever had, I have sat down with a piece of paper, and I have written out the adjectives that I want my colleagues to think about me. Everything. Even even at coat check, I wrote down the words that or the adjectives that I want to be perceived as.

具体是哪些词？在衣帽间工作时，是注重细节、负责任、专业可靠，诸如此类的品质。

And what are the words? So and when at coat check, it was attention to detail. It was responsible. It was professional. It was, you know, things in that category.

细致周到，比如能记住客人名字的人。嗯。你会给人留下印象。这关乎协作精神、细节把控、对设备的精心维护、对同事的关照，然后通过反复践行这些行为来巩固并建立个人声誉。

Thorough, you know, someone who remembered your name and Mhmm. You know, you made an impression on. It is collaboration. It is attention to detail. It is very thorough sort of meticulous attention to our equipment, to, you know, our colleagues, each other, and then putting in the work to make those behaviors true and reinforcing them over and over and over again to build that reputation for yourself.

因此，即便眼前的机会并不明显，我确实认为我一直在提前努力，让自己配得上那些可能出现的机遇。凯莉，我

And so even when the opportunity is not necessarily apparent right in front of you, I do think that I was putting in the work ahead of time to make myself worthy of one of those opportunities if and when it should arise. Kelly, I

想停下来特别强调你关于设计个人声誉的观点。这建议简直绝妙至极。我要确保你听到它，也要确保你分享给生活中那些你关心且处于职业初期的人，因为这是个天才技巧，我在事业和生活中也运用它。我要告诉你，我实践这一点的两种方式。

just wanna stop and really highlight this point that you're making about designing your reputation. This is unbelievably brilliant advice. I wanna make sure that you hear it. I also wanna make sure that you share this with people that you have in your life that you care about that are early in your careers because this is a genius trick, and I use this in my business and my life too. And I'm gonna tell you there are two ways to do this that I do.

第一，在商业中我总是先思考期望的结果。比如，基于我正在推出的产品——无论是播客节目、正在写的书，还是刚完成的巡演——我希望人们产生什么感受或采取什么行动，然后逆向推导。所以你通过写下希望他人描述你的形容词来设计声誉，这进而指导你的行为。在商业目标上，你同样可以这样做。

Number one, I always think in business about the outcome that I want. Like, what do I want a person to feel or to do based on the thing that I'm launching? Whether it's a podcast episode, whether it's a book that I'm writing, whether it's the tour that we just did, and then I just reverse engineer. So you're designing your reputation by writing down the adjectives that you want people to describe you by, and then that informs you on how to act. You can do the same thing in terms of what you want the outcome to be in business.

会议中我也如此。进入会议室前，我会自问：我希望离场后人们如何评价我？当你以终为始，设计声誉或结果时，它就为你提供了行为指南。这看似微妙，却是每个人都需掌握的。另外我想说，如果你此刻正在收听或观看，无论是身处衣帽间工作、零售岗位，还是轮班制工作并认为没有前途——

I do the same thing in meetings. Before I go into a meeting, I will say to myself, what do I want people to say about me after I leave the room? And when you start with the end in mind and you engineer the reputation or the outcome, that now gives you the map for how to behave. And this is such a subtle thing, but it's something everybody needs to know. And the other thing that I wanted to say is that if you're listening right now or you're watching, and you're the one working in the coat closet, or you're the one working in the retail job, or you're the one who is working a shift job and you think it's a dead end.

那绝非终点。你所在之处正是起点。若你以不同方式投入工作，赋予它重要性，采纳这个建议，写下你希望他人描述与你共事体验的词汇——即便是在衣帽寄存处，即便在你此刻通勤前往的岗位上——你便掌握了主动权。你正在改变声誉，扭转一切。

It is not a dead end. Where you are is a beginning. And if you engage in your job in a different way and you make it important and you take this advice and you write down the things that you want people to say when they describe what it's like to be around you, even in this job in the coat check, even in this job that you're commuting to right now, you now take control. You now are changing your reputation. You now shift everything.

这至关重要。我认为人们尚未理解在当前阶段追求卓越的意义——因为你此刻的位置正引领你去往某处。那一刻你拥有巨大力量。感谢你为我们剖析这一点。继续你的故事吧，凯莉，你从衣帽间起步，由于精心塑造的声誉——你的周全、活力、记住人名、有条理——他们随后让你负责大型筹款活动。是的。

This matters so much and I don't think people understand the importance of operating with this level of excellence with where you are now because where you are now is leading you somewhere. And you've got a lot of power in that moment. So thank you for unpacking that with us. So just to kind of keep the story going, you go from the coat check, Kelly, and because of the fact that you have now engineered your reputation and you're showing up and you're thorough and you're energized and you remember people's names and you're organized, they then put you in charge of this huge fundraising event. Yeah.

我可能

I could be

我被赋予更多信任，也确实赢得了更多。他们邀请我主持他们史上最大规模的筹款活动——纽约市历史最悠久的慈善晚宴‘探险家俱乐部年度晚宴’。这个故事最圆满的部分在于十年后的今天，我从衣帽间服务员一路晋升为俱乐部董事会和执行委员会成员。这段经历让我感慨万千，因为它验证了我可以塑造自己的声誉，通过努力让理想成为现实，并证明如此巨大的回报是可能实现的。

trusted with more, and I did earn more. I was asked to chair, you know, their biggest ever, fundraising event. It's New York City's longest running charity event, the Explorers Club annual dinner. And the best part of this story is the full circle moment a decade later because I went from coat check to being appointed to the board of directors and the executive board of this club. And it it was just a remarkable thing for me to reflect on because I think it does validate I can create my reputation, how I can put in the work to make that true, and to know that there is a payoff possible in such a big way.

我欣赏你专注于可控之事的态度。没错。就这样你从衣帽间起步，到操办盛大慈善活动，精心构建声誉。你开始接到各类工作邀约。与此同时，你还在国际航空科学研究院攻读硕士学位。

I love that you focused on what you could control. Exactly. So you then go from the coat check to doing this huge benefit and architecting this reputation. You're starting to get all different types of jobs. In the meanwhile, you're getting master's at the International Institute for Aeronautical Sciences.

这促使你后续进行了150次微重力研究飞行。能否描述下什么是微重力研究飞行？我的梦想是希望

And this leads you to go on and do a 150 microgravity research flights. Can you describe what a microgravity research flight is? My dream was wanting

为下一代科学家打开太空探索的大门。我认为科学家可以将太空作为造福人类的实验室，这一直是我职业轨迹的北极星。这引领我投身微重力研究领域——即在失重状态下漂浮。在地球上模拟太空环境时，飞机会以类似过山车的轨迹飞行，经历急速下坠（天啊），然后反复剧烈拉升。这就是‘呕吐彗星’这个绰号的由来。

to open up access to space for the next generation of scientists, and I thought that scientists can use space as a laboratory to benefit humanity. That was always sort of the north star of my career, And it led me to pursuing a field of research in microgravity, otherwise floating in weightlessness. And how that works here on Earth when you're not in space is an airplane flies in this almost roller coaster profile where the aircraft free falls Oh my god. And then it pulls up hard again over and over and over. That's where the nickname, the vomit comet comes from.

在短暂的失重爆发期间，你能获得约20到22秒的微重力状态。我的研究所与加拿大国家研究委员会合作，利用这些20秒的片段研究从流体动力学到人类健康的各类课题。但这个领域研究者的终极梦想始终是获得更长时间的失重环境——研究需要的不是几秒钟，而是连续数分钟。我常想：有朝一日，我们科学界的研究人员不必填写提案、将实验托付他人，而是能亲自将研究带上太空。

And during those brief bursts of free fall, you get about twenty to twenty two seconds of microgravity, of weightlessness. And my research institute with our partners at the National Research Council of Canada, that's where we and our research teams, we use those twenty second increments to study everything from fluid dynamics to human health. But the dream of researcher in that field is always getting a longer duration exposure. You know, your research needs not just seconds, but consecutive minutes. This thought of, like, one day, instead of filling out proposals and, you know, for the research to get sent with someone else, We, as a science community, as researchers, as scientists, will get to carry our research to space ourselves.

哦，这太有趣了。这让我想到

Oh, that's so interesting. That makes me think

另一个想问你的问题，凯莉。能否带我们了解下实际发射进入太空时

of another question I wanted to ask you, Kelly. Can you walk us through what it's like to actually launch into space for the

第一次吗？对我来说，这是十多年努力的成果。当我进入时，我感觉就像比赛时刻到了，我准备好了。

first time? So, you know, for me, this was, you know, more than a decade in the making. So I get in. I'm like, it's game time. Like, I am ready.

我有一整个科学团队指望着我获取数据。这是我唯一的机会，没有重来的可能。我准备充分，感觉良好。虽然科学方面准备充足，但我立刻意识到，没有任何准备能让我应对载人航天带来的情感冲击，亲眼目睹那样的景象。

I have an entire science team that is, like, counting on me to get the data. This is my one shot. I don't get a do over. Like, I was so ready, and I felt good. And I think I felt so prepared from the science side, and I immediately realized that nothing could have prepared me for the emotional side of human spaceflight and experiencing that and seeing that view for myself.

当我获取数据、固定好实验设备后望向窗外，那种震撼无法言喻。本以为现在能找到词汇描述，但我依然词穷。我们都看过地球的太空照片，但对我来说，亲身体验地球作为一颗行星的存在，这种深刻而谦卑的领悟——你正凝视着历史上极少数人能有幸目睹的奇观，既身处其中又超然其外，这种被迫的视角转变让你意识到自己只是浩瀚存在中微不足道的一部分。

Once I got the data and resecured the experiment and I got to look out the window and I got to really look, It was just awe. It was it was indescribable. You would think that I would have the words by now, and I I just don't. It's this we've all seen images of the earth from space. The difference for me was experiencing earth as a planet, and just this deep and humbling realization that you're looking at something that so few humans in history have ever had the privilege of seeing, and feeling both a part of it, being outside of it, and it's a forced perspective shift that you are such a small part of something so much bigger.

作为母亲，那一刻存在主义的顿悟尤为强烈——我和我的孩子不在同一颗星球上。这种认知既令人眩晕又深邃无比，它将永远铭刻在我的记忆里，至死方休。

And then as a mom, this existential realization that in that moment, I'm not on the same planet as my baby. It it was mind bending and profound, and that will be my mental screensaver until the day that I die.

这段经历如何改变了你？

How did it change you?

这种意识到自己只是宏大存在中微小部分的视角转变，某种程度上带来了一种解脱感。虽然'别为小事烦恼'是老生常谈，但能将这个画面与理念结合，确实帮我解锁了内心的平静。就像灵魂深处有什么东西突然契合了——我此生所求已然达成。

This perspective shift of realizing what a small part you are of something so much greater and bigger. It it's almost like a sense of relief in a way. I know the the sort of like cliche of don't sweat the small stuff, but for me, being able to attach that mental image to that message has really helped me unlock just an inner peace. It's like something in my soul clicked. It's like, I have just accomplished what I set out to do in this life.

你曾感到恐惧吗？没有。我对团队和工程师们充满信心，他们将飞船舱改造成了亚轨道科学实验室，这太了不起了。虽然多年前曾有试飞员在此过程中牺牲，我对此始终保持着最严肃的敬意。

Did you have any fear? No. You know, I had such confidence in the team and in the engineers, and they had transformed the cabin of the space spacecraft into a suborbital science lab. It was extraordinary. But test pilot life had been lost in the process, you know, years back, and I I did I made sure to take that very seriously.

而让我真正有所触动的是，在太空飞行前的几个月，我在我们团队的谷歌文件夹里翻找时，发现了关于我这次飞行的‘顺利日’和‘糟糕日’两份新闻稿草稿。这些本不该让我看到的，但就像任何重大事件一样，通常都会预先准备两个版本的新闻稿。一个是万事顺利的版本，那是你希望发布的；另一个则是紧急版本，为万一发生灾难性错误时准备的，这样你就有东西可

And I think the thing that made it click a little bit more for me is a few months before the spaceflight, I was rummaging in our team's Google folder, and I found good day and bad day press release drafts about my flight. Those were never meant for my eyes, but like any big event, usually, there are two versions of a press release drafted. One where everything goes right. That's the one you hope to put out. And then there is an emergency version that is drafted in the case that something goes catastrophically wrong, so you have something to

发布。所以他们备好了一份新闻稿，以防任务失败而你遇难。

put out. So they have a press release waiting to go in case this mission fails and you're dead.

是的，正是如此。我的团队会喜欢读这个吗？这本来不该让我看到的，但一看到它，我就想，我当然要读。然后看到白纸黑字写着‘她身后留下了……’

Yes. Exactly. And my team like reading that? It was I it was never meant for my eyes, but the second I saw it, I was like, of course, I'm gonna read it. And seeing in black and white, she is survived by.

看到我女儿和丈夫的名字，现在想起来仍让我情绪激动。但比任何事情都更让我清晰地意识到，从他们的角度看这次经历会是什么样子。但这并没有改变什么。我依然感到非常自信和安心。如果我不自信，我就不会去飞行。

And seeing my daughter's name and my husband's name, it still makes me emotional to think about. But that more than anything else crystallized for me finally what this experience might be like from their perspective. But it didn't it didn't change. I still felt very confident and comfortable. I I wouldn't have flown if I didn't.

如果你

If you

能回到十六年前，和那个在衣帽间工作的20岁女孩对话，你会给她什么建议？

could go back sixteen years and talk to that 20 year old that was working in the coat check, what advice would you give her?

首先，我会拍拍她的背说，你在衣帽间的工作做得非常棒。你做得很好，很有直觉。但我会告诉她，当你怀有大胆的梦想时，关键不在于尽可能快地实现它。

First, I would pat her on the back and be like, it is a great thing that you're doing with those coats. Like, you're you're crushing it. Good work. Good instincts. But I I would tell her that when you have big bold dreams in life, that the trick is not necessarily figuring it out as fast as possible.

关键在于尽可能长久地保持自我激励。因为当你怀揣那些宏大的、高远的梦想，它们与你对自己人生的愿景相契合却又感觉离当下的你遥不可及时，你需要具备那种韧性来度过起伏、低谷、平台期，甚至可能是数十年看似毫无进展的时光，才能最终迎来那些仿佛浓缩了数十年光阴的辉煌时刻。如果你能做到这一点，并在整个过程中不断赋能自我，你终将抵达梦想的彼岸。

It's keeping yourself motivated for as long as possible. Because when you have these big high level dreams that are kind of, like, far out for the vision that you have for your life and they feel very far away from where you are today, you need to be able to have that resilience to power through the ups, the downs, the plateaus, the decades maybe where it feels like nothing happens to finally earn those moments where it feels like the decades happen. And if you can do that and empower yourself through all of that, you will find your way to the other side of your dreams.

是什么促使你选择通过网络与世界分享？数百万粉丝追随你的原因之一，正是因为你向他们展示了太空之旅的幕后故事，展现了在婚姻与家庭中从事这类研究的真实状态。对于像我这样的STEM领域女性来说——

What made you wanna bring the world along with you online? Because one of the reasons why millions of people follow you is because you bring them behind the scenes of what it is like to go in space, what it is like to do this type of research while married, while having a family. For someone like me as a woman in STEM to be

能够在地球上从事这份研究工作，最终实现曾以为遥不可及的毕生梦想，并不断重复这样的经历，开辟新的人生路径——我乐于展示这个过程。因为很多人能从我的故事中看到共鸣：她曾是个做着普通职业却怀抱非凡梦想的普通人，而这就是梦想成真的方式。这既独特有趣又具有开创性，将为新一代科学家开启全新的机遇之门。你提到自己已婚，同时也是一位母亲——

able to have this career on earth in research that leads to this lifelong dream that I once thought was inaccessible to me to suddenly live out over and over again and to have this new pathway. I I like to show what that looks like because I think a lot of people can look at me and relate to she was just an ordinary person who was doing, you know, this this career and had this big extraordinary dream, and this is how it happened. And it is unique, interesting and different, and it is going to represent a new era of access for the next generation of scientists. So you mentioned that you're married, and you mentioned also, you know, that you are a mom and you

还有个年幼的女儿。你究竟是如何平衡母亲角色、婚姻生活，同时追求宇航员与研究员的职业生涯，以及开展太空研究这类宏大梦想的？

have a young daughter. How have you really managed being a mom, being married, and pursuing this career as an astronaut and a researcher and these massive dreams of doing research in space?

母亲身份是我自我认知的重要部分，我认为展示这种多元身份的包容性具有重要象征意义。某些批评言论让我惊讶——那些我以为半个世纪前就该过时的观念，比如母亲若同时重视个人理想或事业抱负就被视为自私。我从小被灌输'长大后能成为任何你想成为的人'的梦想，发现这些评论实在有些虚伪。

I feel like being a mom is such a big part of my identity, and I do think that visible representation of embracing those multitudes is important to show. I have been surprised by some of the criticism, you know, that I've seen about things that I assumed we moved past half a century ago. Like this idea that a mother is somehow selfish if she prioritizes both personal passions or career ambitions alongside her family. You know, I was someone sold to the dream growing up that you can grow up and be anything you want. And I I did find it a little bit hypocritical with those comments.

我想说：正是这个社会一边强调需要更多STEM领域女性，推出宇航员芭比娃娃和美国女孩娃娃，确保女孩们相信自己无所不能；可当她们成为母亲后，却要质问'你怎敢追求我们曾说如此重要的梦想？' 但我丝毫不感到羞愧。

I'm like, this is the same society that insists that we want more women in STEM. We have astronaut Barbie dolls and American Girl dolls, and we wanna make sure our girls know they can be anything until they grow up and become mothers with children of their own. And then it's like, how dare you pursue those dreams that we said were so important? You know? So I I don't feel any shame.

我深感幸运能为女儿树立这样的榜样：希望她能在这一生——这个我何其有幸赋予她的生命中，不断探索自身潜能的边界。凯莉，谢谢你

I feel really grateful to be able to set that example for my daughter of, you know, I hope that she probes the boundaries of her full potential in this life, in this one life that I was so lucky to give her. Kelly, thank you

感谢分享。我真的很喜欢听你的故事。同时我也很感激我们的赞助商。所以让我们稍作休息。在你们听赞助内容时，我希望你们做一件事。

for sharing that. I just love hearing your story. And I also love our sponsors. So let's take a quick break. And while you listen to our sponsors, here's what I want you to do.

我希望你们想想某个需要更大梦想的人。某个需要明白即使你觉得自己平凡，也有能力成就不凡的人。把这期节目分享给他们。如果你正在收听，请别走开。凯莉的故事才刚刚开始。

I want you to think of somebody who needs to dream bigger. Somebody who needs to understand that even though you may feel a little ordinary, you have the capability to do extraordinary things. Send them this episode. And if you're listening right now, don't go anywhere. Kelly's just getting started.

我们马上回来，短暂休息后我会在这里等你。别走开。欢迎回来。我身边是宇航员兼研究员凯莉·吉拉尔迪，我们将探讨她关于人生更大梦想的蓝图。浏览你的社交媒体很有趣，因为确实令人惊讶。

We'll be right back and I'll be waiting for you after a short break. Stay with me. Welcome back. I'm here with Kelly Girardi, who is an astronaut and researcher, and we're talking about her blueprint for dreaming bigger in your life. So, it was interesting to look at all your social media because it is surprising Yeah.

你收到的那些批评。对吧。真的很意外。比如有人说你应该在 motherhood 和太空事业中二选一，好像你不能兼顾两者。

The criticism that you receive. Right. Really surprising. Like, the fact that people are like, you should just pick one, motherhood or space, as if you couldn't do both.

是的。这这这对我来说也很震惊。你知道吗？有些日子我会反思我们走了多远，因为我确实想到，我妈妈在我这个年纪时，美国女性甚至没资格进入太空。

Yeah. It it it was shocking to me too. You know? And on some days, I'm, like, reflecting how far we've come because I do think about the fact that, you know, my mom was at my spaceflight when she was growing up. Women in The US were not eligible to fly to space.

但仅仅一代人之后，她亲眼见证了女儿飞天。而在其他方面，我们仍有很长的路要走。所以我非常愿意透明地分享我的职业生涯和个人生活，因为我想告诉那些怀疑能否在追求远大梦想同时组建理想家庭的女性：这是可能的。我也想安慰那些在某些日子或周因无法完美平衡而感到愧疚的女性。对我来说，这确实像在杂耍。

But one single generation later, she watched her daughter. And then other ways, we still have so far to go. And so I I do like sharing so much of my career and and my personal life transparently because I do wanna reach women who are wondering if it's possible to both go after those big dreams that they have while building the family they've always dreamed of. And I also want to reassure women who are perhaps made to feel guilty on those days or weeks when the scales don't perfectly balance. And, you know, for for me, it is a juggle.

对吧？这就是赤裸的真相。它并不完美，也不总是光鲜，我努力坦诚面对这一点。有个改变我生活的思维框架——这要归功于诺拉·艾芙隆——她说过这就像杂耍球，关键是要明白有些球是玻璃做的，有些是塑料做的。

Right? It's like that's the honest truth. It doesn't look perfect. It doesn't look pretty all the time, and I try to be really transparent about that. I think the the one framework that changed my life a little bit with that, the credit goes to Nora Ephron for this, but I use this analogy in my mind on a daily basis is that she said that it's like juggling balls, and the trick is to understand that some of the balls are made of glass, and some of the balls are made of plastic.

关键在于分辨哪些是玻璃球，哪些是塑料球。而我至今仍会判断失误。有时我竭尽全力，却误以为某些悬在空中的球是塑料的——无论是研究截止期限的提案、女儿学校的书展，还是花一小时坐在地板上玩芭比娃娃——结果这些时刻远比我想象的更易碎。另一方面，有些事我原以为是人生中的玻璃球，比如职业机会或家庭传统活动，我费尽周折去维系，结果却发现它们并没那么重要。所以这是个持续精进的过程。

And the trick is knowing which one is which. And I still don't get that right. There are times where I try my best, but I have assumed that certain balls in the air were plastic, whether it was a research deadline proposal or a book fair at my daughter's school or even an hour sitting on the floor playing Barbie dolls, and those turned out to be so much more breakable of moments than I thought. And then on the flip side, there are things that I have assumed were glass balls in my life, like career work opportunities or family rituals and events that I moved mountains to make work, and, you know, they turned out to be not that consequential. So it's a work in progress.

你知道，一

You You know, one

你故事里最耐人寻味的是，你学会了如何不被他人批评所困扰。作为拥有数百万关注者的人，你不仅带人们体验太空生活和科研工作，还分享自己酷炫忙碌的职业生涯。当人们得知你同时是位母亲时，我震惊于有多少人立刻质问'丈夫呢？爸爸不参与吗？'——我很想深入了解你如何处理这类声音。

of the interesting things about your story is that you've got to learn how to not let other people's criticism get to you. Right. And I'd love to dig into how you deal with it because you are followed by millions of people. You not only take people into space and the experience of it, the life of being an astronaut and a researcher, but as you also talk about your incredibly cool busy job and people learn that you're a mom, I am shocked by the number of people who are just like, what about the husband? Is dad not in the picture?

你最畏惧哪种批评？哪种能真正让你停下脚步？

What is the criticism you fear the most? Like, what's the one that actually gets you to stop?

关于母亲身份的批评。或许因为我太在乎女儿，这类言论总能刺痛我。虽然理性分析时我完全反对这种论调——这未必是最令我恐惧的批评，但绝对是最让我如鲠在喉的。比如指责我'自私地追求事业'或'把个人激情置于母职是失职'。

Motherhood related criticism. I think because I care so much about, you know, my daughter, I I think, like, it gets under my skin. And when I interrogate it, I disagree and disapprove completely of it. And and maybe it's not necessarily the one that scares me the most, but it's definitely the flavor that gets the most under my skin. Like, the criticism that I would be, you know, so selfish to to do this or that I'm, you know, somehow bad mom for prioritizing all of my personal passions.

这很有趣，因为理智上我持有截然不同的观点，会直接否定这些批评。我真心感激能为女儿树立这样的榜样。但当触及内心最柔软处时，这类批评总会引发我的情绪反应。正因如此，我创作了大量相关内容——它们总能激起我的强烈共鸣。

And it's so interesting because I do feel, cerebrally, so different, and I reject it on its face value. It's like, no. I I do genuinely know that I feel very, very grateful to be able to set this example for my daughter. But in the moment, when it's something that you care so much about, that's the one that I constantly have a reaction to. And I think that's why I've created so much content about it is because it sparks a reaction in me often.

这大概是我花费最多时间深度剖析的问题：我对此的真实感受究竟是什么？究竟该如何...

And it it was probably the one that I have spent the most time digging deep to understand, okay, how do I really feel about this? Well, how do

你真的这么觉得吗？因为这很有趣。就我个人而言，如果有人对我说，梅尔，你工作太拼命了，你太自私了。你永远不该把自己的野心和梦想置于孩子之上——对此我的回应是，我不同意。是的。

you really feel? Because it's interesting. Like, I don't personally feel at all flustered or it doesn't get under my skin if somebody says, Mel, you work too much, you're selfish. You should never put your own ambition and your own dreams ahead of your children and to that I say, I disagree. Yeah.

因为养育孩子的根本目的，就是要把他们培养成能够独立开创自己生活的人。我是说，他们终究会离开的。对吧。他们会去建立自己的生活。我不认同那种所谓好父母——无论是母亲还是父亲——就该为孩子牺牲一切的观点。

Because the whole point of raising your kids is to actually raise them so that they can go on and create lives of their own. I mean, they leave. Right. They go build their own lives. And I don't buy into this notion that a that a great parent, whether it's a mom or dad, sacrifices everything for their children.

完全同意。根据我的经验，我认为母亲的内疚感某种程度上是普遍存在的。我是说，

Agree completely. What I've learned and look, I think mom guilt is sort of a universal feeling. I mean,

如果你从未有过这种感受请告诉我。但在我准备离开的许多时刻——特别是早期当这些指责刚开始出现时（嗯哼），比如清晨我要赶飞机时女儿哭着说'别走'——帮助我区分开的是内疚与后悔。因为如果我真不想走，我就不会走。

you let me know if you haven't felt it. But I think there are so many times where I have gotten up to leave, and I I feel like this was more of a chapter in my life earlier when these comments were first, you know Mhmm. Confronting me, where there were mornings where I was getting up to go catch a plane, and my daughter is crying and saying, don't go. But what helped me and what what I was able to separate was guilt versus regret. Because if I really didn't wanna go, I wouldn't go.

但我确实觉得我有权给自己许可。我仍然会在飞机上哭泣，因为错过了对女儿重要的时刻，而她也曾在清晨哭泣。但我知道她到学校后就会没事的，一切都会好起来。我能分辨出那一刻的内疚感和最初决定出行时的后悔之间的区别。

But I did feel like this was okay for me to give myself permission. I was still crying on the plane because I was missing something that was important to my daughter, and she was crying in the morning. But I also knew she's gonna be fine the minute that she gets off to school. It's all gonna be okay. And I was able to distinguish between feeling guilt over that moment versus feeling regret about going in the first place.

我从不后悔，永远不后悔。但内疚感——我女儿现在七岁，正处于能说会道、会情感操控的年纪，她会明确表达'我们能做这个吗''你会参加那个吗''你会来教室当志愿者吗'——在这些时刻我仍会感到内疚，但

And I don't feel regret, and I never feel regret. But the guilt, I think, is something that is still and my my daughter's seven, and so she's at the age where she can talk and emotionally manipulate and, you know, say her piece about, you know, are we gonna do this? Are you gonna be there for that? Are you gonna be volunteering in the classroom? So in those moments, I feel guilt but

不是后悔。这很有意思。我觉得自己面对三个孩子时处理方式是：两件事可以同时成立。是的。你当然希望能分身两地，但最终必须选择当下更需要你的地方。

not regret. That's interesting. I I think the way that I've handled it with our three kids is that I think two things can be true at once. Yeah. I think you can wish you can be in two places at once, and you can choose which one you need to be in.

我认为你可以希望自己没有错过什么，并认识到你正在做出的某些决定具有长远利益，这些是重要的决策。而且我认为，你可以让孩子对某些事感到失望，同时仍为自己挺身而出，并安慰他们接纳这些情绪。如果你不为当下哪个决定最适合自己而纠结挣扎，那才不叫人性。但我确实非常努力地不去挥舞社会塞给我们的那把大锤，用母亲的内疚感敲打自己，因为这既无助于我，也无益于我的孩子。当我为自己的决定感到糟糕时，那并不会让他们感觉更好。

I think you can wish that you were not missing something and recognize that there are decisions that you are making that have a longer term benefit that are important decisions to make. And I think you can have your kids be disappointed by something and still show up for yourself and comfort them in having those feelings. And I don't think you're human if you don't wrestle with or grapple with which decision is the decision that is the one that's right for me in this moment. But I have really, I think, worked very hard to not take that sledgehammer that society has put in our hands and hammer myself with mom guilt because it doesn't serve me and it doesn't serve my children. Like when I feel bad about the decisions that I'm making, that doesn't make them feel better.

所以对我来说，真正要面对的事实是：两件事将永远并存。无论你是母亲、父亲，或任何身份，生活中总会做出令他人失望的事。你越是允许他人拥有并确认他们的感受，同时坚定那些让你自豪、快乐或纯粹为了谋生（老实说我有几年纯粹为付账单）的必要决定——

And so to me really wrestling that fact that two things are always gonna be true. There are gonna be things that you do in your life whether you're a mom, a dad, whether you are, whether you're not, that disappoint other people. And the more that you create space for somebody to have the feelings that they have and to validate those feelings but to really double down on the decisions that you need to make that make you proud or happy or frankly, there are just years that I had to pay the bills.

没错，就像你

Yeah, absolutely. Like you

可以尽情哭泣，但我必须去工作。因为如果我不工作，你就没法踢足球，我们餐桌上也不会有食物。如果我为此感到内疚，又有什么用呢？

can cry all you want but I gotta go to work because if I don't go to work, you aren't playing soccer. We don't have groceries on the table. And so if I feel guilty about that, what good does that do?

正是如此。

Exactly.

所以我常问自己：这种情绪或许合理，但沉溺其中对我有帮助吗？通常答案是否定的。

And so I guess I just often ask myself, yes, the feeling may be valid, but does marinating in it serve me? And usually, it doesn't.

是啊。而我拒绝沉溺其中。你知道吗？有时我会被一句话刺激到，即使明知那是我完全反对的言论。但在那些时刻，我要么爆发，要么翻篇——我总得选一条路。

Yeah. And I I refuse to marinate in it. You know? I'm susceptible sometimes to being triggered by a comment even when I know it's a you know, something that I reject completely. But in those moments, you know, I either lash out or I move on, and I I I pick one.

我要么战斗到底，要么就此收场。

I'm gonna fight or I'm gonna close it out.

你如何应对那些批评？比如，怎么不让它们影响到你？你知道，如果人们总在说，你得在当妈妈和当宇航员之间选一个。像是，你女儿还在地球上，为什么还要做这么危险的事？为什么总把自己置于这种不负责任的险境？

How do you deal with the criticism? Like, how do you not let it get to you? You know, if people are constantly saying, you gotta pick being a mom or an astronaut. Like, why are you doing this if you have a daughter that's down on earth? Why do you keep putting yourself in danger like this that's not responsible?

你怎么做到不被这些言论影响？

How do you not let that get to you?

是的。我确实会提醒自己，这些意见和批评并非来自我会寻求职业建议的人，也不是来自真心为我着想的人。所以在吸收这些批评前，我必须先甄别其价值。尤其是在坚持网络曝光和大量分享的过程中，我不得不设立界限，筑起保护自己内心平静的小围栏。我保留随时改变主意的权利。

Yeah. What I do try to keep in mind is, like, these are not the opinions being shared and the sort of, like, criticism being lobbed at me is not coming from people that I would look to for advice about my career either, and they're not coming from people who have my best intentions at heart. And so I really have to qualify, you know, that criticism before I let myself absorb it. And that's been something that, especially in committing to existing online and sharing so much, I've had to draw that boundary and sort of put up my my little fence of protection to protect my peace. I reserve the right to change my mind at any time.

还有一点很重要。我的生活不是公共广场，近年来真正有帮助的是我找到了志同道合的伙伴。现在实际上（敲敲木头）我很少遭遇那种情况了。有一个理解我、认识真实的我、支持我经历高低起伏的社群，这让保持透明变得容易多了。

That's the other thing. It's like I my life isn't a town square, and I think what's been really helpful in recent years is I found my people. And so now I experience actually, you know, knock on wood, so much less of that. I have a community that sort of understands me and and knows who I am and sees me for who I am and, you know, who who support me through the ups, the downs, the plateaus, all of it. And so it it makes it a lot easier to be transparent.

但在此之前，面对某些批评时，我必须彻底抽离，并提醒自己：这些人不了解我、不关心我、没有善意，更不是我该请教的对象。既然我们谈到应对批评，

But prior to that, when there was some of this criticism, I really, really had to disengage myself from it and remind myself, like, this is not someone who knows me, who cares about me, who is coming from a place of good intent, nor is it someone I would actually be looking to for advice. Since we've been talking about criticism,

对我最有帮助的是'随他们去'理论。意识到与网上批评者纠缠纯粹是浪费精力，这彻底改变了我的心态。因为寻求理解的人和蓄意诋毁的人有本质区别。当我越来越多地说'随他们去'时...

the thing that has helped me the most with dealing with it is this Let Them Theory. It was such a game changer for me to understand that it's a complete waste of energy to even engage, especially with people online that are criticizing you. Yeah. Because there's a big difference between somebody who's seeking to understand versus somebody who's seeking to tear down. And the more that I started saying, let them.

让他们说他们想说的话。让他们误解我的所作所为。让他们编造谎言。让他们做他们想做的事，因为我无法控制网上的陌生人甚至我在乎的人可能对我说的、想的或相信的。只要我知道什么是真实的，知道我的初衷，我就心安理得。

Let them say what they're gonna say. Let them misunderstand what I'm doing. Let them make up lies. Let them do whatever they're gonna do because I can't control what strangers online or even people that I care about might say or think or believe about me. As long as I know what's true and I know my intention, I'm good.

这太真实了。这太有力量了。有没有亲近的人，

It's so true. It's so powerful. Has anyone close to you,

比如，真的批评或质疑过你去太空的决定？

like, really criticized or questioned the decision to go to space?

没有。不是出于恶意的那种。我应该说确实有人表示过担忧，但那些都是出于善意。我认为要区分清楚，有人因为太爱你、为你好、为你担心而忧虑，与有人因为不喜欢你、不认同你的选择或生活方式而指责你，是完全不同的。你丈夫担心过吗？他确实担心过。

No. Not not in a way that was coming from bad faith. I I would say there have certainly been concerns, and those were coming from a place of good faith. And I I think understanding the difference of someone being concerned because they love you so much and they want the best for you and they're scared for you is very different than someone coming at you because they don't like you and they don't like the choices that you've made or the life that you're living. Did your husband worry about He did.

我是说，他的担心是那种，当然，对于直系亲属来说那是充满焦虑的一天，但他为我感到无比骄傲，也深受感动，因为他知道这是我十多年来一直在追求的。这是我人生中的大梦想，他一直...我是说，他就像个盲目乐观的啦啦队长，在我耳边、在我肩头说：你无所不能，你甚至能竞选总统。而我只是说，好吧。

I mean, he worried in the sense of, like, of course, like, it's it's an anxiety filled day for immediate family, but he was so immensely proud of me and so moved for me because he knew that this was more than a decade in the making. This was my big dream in life that he always I mean, he is like the cheerleader to the point of delusion in my ear, on my shoulder. Like, you can do anything. You could run for president. And I was like, okay.

别太夸张。但他就是这样一个人，总是为我加油打气。嗯，其中

Slow down. But he you know, this is someone who just cheers me on. Well, one of

让你在网上极其受欢迎的另一个原因是，过去一年里，你非常公开地分享了你的试管婴儿历程。超过1000万人关注了你的旅程，很多人期待听到好消息，但你最近打破了禁忌，公开了每一个细节，包括今年早些时候在试管婴儿移植八周后流产的经历。你能谈谈为什么决定在网上与这么多粉丝分享这段试管婴儿和生育之旅吗？因为你不仅仅是回顾它。请为正在观看或聆听的人分享你独特的分享方式。

the other things that have made you incredibly, popular online is that over the past year, you have been sharing very, very openly your IVF journey. So more than 10,000,000 people have followed your journey and a lot of people are wanting to hear the good news, but you recently broke the stigma by opening up about every single part of it, including having a miscarriage earlier this year at eight weeks after an IVF transfer. Can you talk about why you decided to share this IVF and fertility journey with all these followers online? Because you're not just like kind of reflecting on it. Share for the person who's watching or who's listening the way in which you're doing it because you're doing it in a way that's very unique.

哇。自从我女儿出生近八年来，我一直在与继发性不孕症作斗争，反复经历妊娠失败。不孕与失去的旅程对我并不陌生，但实时分享这段经历却是全新的尝试。我觉得既然已经分享了这么多个人生活和工作，却对压在我生命中的这头千斤大象避而不谈，实在是种失职。

Wow. For nearly eight years since my daughter was born, I have struggled with secondary infertility. I have struggled with recurrent pregnancy loss. So the journey of infertility and loss is not new to me, but sharing it in real time certainly is. And I think I reached this point where I was sharing so much about my personal life and my work that it felt remiss to not be talking about the 1,000 pound elephant that was sitting on top of me in my life.

我认为试管婴儿治疗最隐蔽的陷阱在于它会吞噬你的一切。无论精神、情感、身体还是经济层面，无论你原本的生活多么充实，这都会成为主旋律，其他事情都被迫退居次要。这种情况有时令人崩溃。这期播客节目我不得不因不可控的试管治疗取消两次——先是移植时间调整，后来遭遇流产。你生活的所有重心都会被迫让位。

And I think that is such an insidious part of IVF is that it becomes so all consuming. I mean, mentally, emotionally, physically, financially, no matter how full your life is, this becomes the a plot. And everything else kind of falls into the back burner. And it's devastating sometimes when that happens. This this podcast, this episode in particular, I had to cancel two times because of IVF events that were outside of my control.

当我考虑公开这段经历时，想到无数女性正默默经历着同样的生育长征，却仍要应付生活的其他责任。我真心希望能破除这种污名，为这个话题带来些微光明，展示那些看似不可能经历此事者的真实境遇，让身处其中的女性知道她们并不孤单。凯莉，我还有很多话想...

First, because the transfer timing got moved, then because I had a miscarriage. It's just everything in your life falls to the back burner. And when I was thinking about sharing this, I was thinking about the fact that this fertility odyssey is something that so many women navigate invisibly and still show up to everything else in their life because they have to. And I really wanted to destigmatize that and shed a little bit of light on this topic and what it actually looks like for someone, you know, that you might not expect is going through this and to show other women who are that they're not alone. Kelly, there are so many more things that I wanted

要问你，但现在似乎是插播赞助商信息的绝佳时机。同时希望你将这段对话分享给需要的人——它不仅会触动你，也会让你想起生活中的某些人。慷慨地分享吧，这是你能赠予所爱之人的礼物。

to ask you, but this feels like a great time to take a quick break so we can hear a word from our amazing sponsors. And I also want to have you share this with somebody. I'm sure this conversation is not only stirring something in you, but it's making you think of people in your life. Share this with them and be generous. It's a gift that you can give to somebody that you love.

广告回来后我们将深入探讨更多内容，请别走开。欢迎回来，我是你们的老朋友梅尔·罗宾斯。今天我们将继续向宇航员凯莉·吉拉尔迪学习。你的故事让我深刻意识到：隐藏痛苦或沉默承受并非坚强的标志...

We've got so much more we're gonna dig into when we return, so stay with me. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. Today, you and I are here learning from astronaut Kelly Girardi. You know, I always think about, and I see this in your story, this truth that hiding something or suffering in silence isn't a sign of strength.

而是自我毁灭的形式。那些未说出口的重量会逐渐摧毁一个人。对于不了解试管治疗的人，能否说说你当时在网上记录和分享了哪些经历？

It's a form of self destruction. Yeah. That the weight of the thing that you're not talking about slowly destroys you. And so for somebody who's not familiar with what it's like to go through IVF, what are the kinds of experiences that you were documenting online Yeah. And sharing with people?

对我来说，首轮试管治疗在取卵培育胚胎前，需要每天注射混合药物。你得自己配药，往腹部注射，随身携带药物，严格按时操作。生活完全围绕这个流程运转，而荷尔蒙早已紊乱失衡。

So for me, you know, the the first round of IVF and prior to an egg retrieval where embryos are made, you have a round of shots that you're taking every single day where you're sort of mixing your own medications. You're injecting them into your stomach. You are traveling with your medications. You're doing it on a very specific time. Your life is revolving around this, and your hormones are completely out of whack.

你完全受制于这些药物引发的荷尔蒙反应。所有感受都被极端放大到最糟糕的状态。当你进行取卵手术时，总希望能获得大量卵子。记得第一次尝试时，我取出了26颗卵子，当时觉得这太棒了，为此欣喜若狂。

You are at the mercy of the hormonal reactions that are happening as a result of these medications. And so it is just everything is in technicolor in the worst way. And then you go into your egg retrieval, and you are hoping to get a high number. And, you know, that that first time I did, I I got 26 eggs retrieved. I'm like, this is amazing, and I felt so great about it.

然后淘汰就开始了。先是看有多少成功受精？有多少能撑到第五天的囊胚阶段？最后基因检测后还能剩下多少？

And then the attrition starts. Okay. Well, how many fertilized? How many made it to, you know, five days to the blastocyst stage? And then how many of those after the genetic testing?

经过这最后一轮筛选，我只剩下一个胚胎，整个人都崩溃了。失望透顶的我进入首次移植阶段——那个你祈求能成功怀孕的时刻。满脑子都在想：天啊，这是我唯一的机会了。

And after all of that last round, I was left with one single embryo, and I was shattered. I was so disappointed. I was going into the initial transfer attempt where you hope that a pregnancy results. It just thinking like, oh my god, please. I have this one chance.

这种预期性焦虑简直令人窒息。但随后九周里我体验到了奇迹般的喜悦，因为我确实怀孕了。移植成功了，我实时分享了这个消息。其实我早就明白，不是每个试管婴儿故事都能以怀孕或成功告终，但我早已下定决心。

It's just so much anticipatory stress. And then for nine weeks after, there was this miraculous joy because I did get pregnant. It worked, and I shared that in real time, you know, with everyone. I was really and I knew going in that not every IVF story ends in a pregnancy or ends in a success. I had committed to myself.

我要透明地分享这一切，无论是喜悦、挫折还是心碎。我的社交圈让我很容易展现真实状态。虽然早有心理准备，但在第九周去生殖中心做'毕业检查'时...

I am sharing this transparently, the good, the bad, or the heartbreaking. And my community does make that very easy to show up in, you know, an authentic way. So I knew that going in. But at nine weeks, I went into my graduation appointment from my IVF clinic.

他们管这个叫毕业？

That is what they call it?

之所以称为毕业，是因为九周后你就要从一路陪伴的生殖中心转诊到普通产科医生那里完成后续孕期。那天检查时充满庆祝氛围，主治医生和参与过我整个治疗周期的护士们都在场。当我走进检查室...

They call it your graduation because that is the point at nine weeks where you transfer from your IVF clinic who has taken you this far to a regular OB who's gonna carry you to the finish line. And at that nine week appointment, I go in and it's a very celebratory mood. My doctor is in the room. All of the nurses who have been a part of my cycle and my journey are in the room. And I get in there.

我们开始做超声波检查，而我听到的只有震耳欲聋的寂静。那一刻我就明白了。我的心瞬间沉到了谷底，我知道情况不妙。之后的一切都恍如梦境，因为这一切来得太突然了。

We're starting the ultrasound, and I hear just the deafening silence. And I knew. I knew in that moment, my heart just dropped into my stomach. I I knew it was wrong. And the whole thing was kind of a a daze from there because it was so shocking.

此前一切都进展得如此完美，这是个经过基因检测的高评级胚胎。至今所有的超声波检查结果都很乐观，胎心跳动一直非常有力。按理说，到了这个阶段出问题的概率微乎其微。但后来你才意识到，统计数字里永远会有不幸落在悲伤那一侧的人。

Everything had gone so perfectly, and this was a highly graded embryo genetically tested. The ultrasounds to date had been so positive. The heartbeat had been so strong. It's like, you know, there was such a low chance that something would go wrong at this point. And then you realize that there are always people who fall on the sad side of those statistics.

而这次，我就是其中之一。我原以为离开那个房间时，会在生育诊所的门上签名——那扇门贴满了毕业者写给下一位患者的励志便签。我脑海里早已想好了要写的话。但最终我没能写下那些话，而是泪流满面地从一扇从未知晓的隐蔽后门离开，向关注我的观众们告知了这个消息。对于要撤销之前的喜讯，我没有感到丝毫难堪。

And this time, I was one of them. And I thought I was gonna be leaving that room signing the door to the fertility clinic inside has all these little post it notes that people who graduate, you get to write a note of inspiration for the next person. So I already had a little message in my head. And instead of writing that, I left through a discreet backdoor that I didn't even know existed in tears, shared this update with my audience, and there was no embarrassment that I felt about unannouncing. Not a shred.

我只感到悲痛。没有羞耻，没有尴尬。我总觉得，我们常被灌输这种观念：这是需要独自承受的私人苦难。但我拒绝这种想法，我需要支持。

I only felt grief. I felt no shame, no embarrassment. And I I think so often, you know, we're made to feel like this is our private burden to navigate in isolation. And I just rejected that. I wanted the support.

我想依靠我的社群，因为这打击实在太沉重了。是的，我选择了实时分享这一切。

I wanted to lean on my community because this was devastating. And, you know, I I did share in real time.

对于那些认为你分享得太早的人，你怎么看？

How did you feel about the people who said that it was too soon to share?

确实。关于时机问题有很多评论，很多人以为我会后悔当初分享这个消息，这样就不必面临撤销宣布的尴尬。也有人用我的经历佐证'这就是为什么要等满十二周'。但必须说明，我曾多次经历类似处境——虽然现在是一个孩子的母亲，但我怀孕过五次，可以说尝试过所有可能的应对方式。

Yeah. That that was a lot of comments about the timing, and I think a lot of people assumed that I would have wished that I hadn't shared this in the first place so that I wasn't put in the position of having to unannounce it. Or they used my story as validation that, like, this is why we wait the twelve weeks. But I have to say, you know, I've been in this position before. I'm a mom of one, but I've been pregnant five times, and I feel like I have tried every permutation of this.

我把一切都埋在心里，默默承受着早期的失去。我等待了所谓的‘安全期’，直到孕早期结束才宣布，却又不得不在孕中期撤回消息。我常觉得这其中伴随着许多污名与羞耻，因为我们有时被灌输这是需要独自承担的私人负担，而我拒绝接受这种观念。我不想这样活着。

I have kept everything to myself and suffered an early loss completely in silence. I have waited the quote unquote safe amount of time until after the first trimester, announced only to have to unannounce later in the second trimester. And I really felt like there is often so much stigma and shame attached to that because we are sometimes made to feel like this is a private burden to navigate yourself, and I just rejected that. It's like this that's not how I wanna live.

我很高兴你拒绝了这种想法，因为在我看来，在最初的九周里，你无法预知结果如何，你可以选择沉默地失望并期待事情好转。但如果结果不如意，你会更加失望。而提前防备并不会减轻实际发生时的失望感。我选择强迫自己保持希望与乐观，活在‘事情会如我所愿’的可能性中，所以我选择告诉他人。如果最终未能如愿，我会失望，但仔细想想，那九周无论如何都会过去。

I'm so glad you rejected it because the way that I look at it is that because you have no idea how something like this is gonna turn out, for the first nine weeks, you can either be silent disappointment and you can hope that things are gonna turn out. And then if it doesn't work, then you have even more disappointment. But bracing doesn't make the disappointment any lower when it happens or, and this is the way that I choose to do things, I actually force myself to be hopeful and optimistic and to live in the possibility that this is going to work out the way that I want it to, which is why I tell people. And if it doesn't work out, okay, then I'm disappointed. But if you really stop and think about it, those nine weeks are gonna pass either way.

如果妊娠注定终止，它终将终止。我宁愿怀着希望与乐观度过九周后再面对失望，也不愿全程提心吊胆、隐瞒所有人九周后遭遇更深的失望。既然无法控制结局，我选择掌控自己面对不确定性的态度——开放且乐观。若真遇到需要悲伤和哀悼的时刻，我会在发生时处理情绪，而非提前自我折磨。为什么要让那九周成为煎熬？

If the pregnancy's gonna end, it's gonna end. I would rather spend nine weeks living in hope and optimism and then feel disappointment than to brace and feel disappointed and not tell anybody for nine weeks and then feel more disappointed if it ends. And because I don't have control over what's gonna happen, I do know that I have control over how I approach the uncertainty of what's happening, and I just choose to be open and optimistic. And if something happens where I'm gonna be disappointed and sad and grieving, I will grieve and be disappointed when it happens, but not before. Because why torture yourself for those nine weeks?

何必如此？当然，无论是保持沉默还是开放乐观地分享进展，这都是个人选择。但请从亲友支持的角度思考：沉默独扛真的对你有益吗？还是说，实时分享能让你置身于充满支持、希望与乐观的氛围中？

Why do that? And obviously, whatever you do in these situations, whether you stay silent, whether you're just open and optimistic and you tell people what's going on, it's a personal decision. And I want you to think about it in the context of friends and family. Is it helping you to stay silent and carry this alone? Or does it actually help you be in a space where you're optimistic and hopeful and full of support if you're telling people what's going on as it's happening that are around you.

因为在等待中沉默，我总觉得自己在积蓄‘坏事即将发生’的能量。这不是说你会招致厄运，而是我活在防备状态而非庆祝状态。如果坏消息真的来临，我可以那时再哀伤，但我不愿把所有时间都用来防备。所以我认为，拒绝‘必须独自承受’的规则是一种解放——你不该被迫沉默受苦。

Because in the waiting, I feel like I'm actually holding energy that something negative is going to happen. Not that you're causing it, but I'm living in a state of bracing instead of a state of celebration. And when bad news comes, if it does, I can grieve and be disappointed then, but I don't wanna spend all that time bracing for it. And so I think there's something very liberating about not forcing yourself to follow this rule that you're supposed to bear the burden alone. You're supposed to suffer in silence.

你不该等到获得完全保证才松口气，因为人生本无绝对保障。所以我非常欣赏你的做法。不过我想知道，在这近七年的旅程中，你如何平衡这种中间状态？

You're supposed to just brace until you get full assurance because there is no assurance in life. And so I love that you did that. And I wonder though, how do you hold that in between space? Because you have been on this journey now for almost seven years.

你确实经历过。

You've had Yeah.

超过七年了。你有过五次未能足月的妊娠，现在距离下一次胚胎移植还有十天。你如何在这种悲伤与希望并存的状态中自处？

More than seven years. You have had five pregnancies that did not go to term, and you're now about to you're ten days away right now from going into the next transfer. How do you hold that space of grief and hope?

是的。关于即将到来的这次移植，首先我深信心态的重要性——设定目标并在心理和情感上全力以赴。上次移植时我允许自己怀抱希望，这次我也不想剥夺这种期待。我认为设想成功并保持健康心态很有帮助。让我们深入探讨这一点。

Yeah. So coming into this upcoming transfer, I'm a big believer in mindset, first of all, just in in setting an intention and putting my best foot forward mentally, emotionally. You know, when going into the last transfer, I allowed myself to get my hopes up, and I don't wanna deprive myself of that again this time. I I think it's helpful to envision success and and to really get in a healthy mindset. Let's unpack that.

没错。因为'别抱太大希望'这句话我认为很危险。是的。为什么不该怀抱希望呢？

Yeah. Because that phrase I think is very dangerous. Don't get your hopes up. Yes. Why shouldn't you get your hopes up?

我觉得这种想法对我来说尤其不健康，过早地陷入消极思维。即便不抱希望，我的思绪也早已充满焦虑、压力和紧张能量。我最不愿做的就是灾难化尚未发生的事。是的。

I I think it is an unhealthy way for me, especially, to look at this process and and to start that negative thinking so early. I already have so much of that negative thinking. With or without the hopes, it's, you know, full of anxiety and stress and just nervous energy. So the last thing that I wanna do is start catastrophizing it before it happens. Yes.

我想给自己机会去期待完美结局——虽然我承认并不擅长这个。有些日子我会陷入数小时的纠结：究竟更害怕移植从一开始就失败立即知晓未孕，还是初期成功后又面临流产？

I wanna give myself the opportunity to get excited about it, to envision, you know, everything perfect. I I'm not great at that. I will admit there are days where I spiral for hours on, like, trying to figure out what am I more afraid of. The one where, you know, the transfer doesn't work from the start and I know immediately that I'm not pregnant and it didn't work, or the one where it works initially and then I face another loss. Like, which one am I more afraid of?

但最终我会找到思维重置键，重新聚焦于'这次一切都会完美'的设想。这就是我选择倾注能量并重新锚定自我的方向。

But what I need to do and what I end up doing is eventually I find that mental reset switch and I get back to the one where everything works perfectly this time. And that's where I choose to focus my energy and really try to just recenter myself.

考虑到你已历经五次这样的过程，尝试过不同方式——或告知他人或独自承受，逐步分享每个阶段的期待与心碎。回顾全程，你最大的收获是什么？哪种方式最有效？

You know, given that you've been through this five times Yeah. And that you've done it a number of different ways, you've told people you haven't told people, you've, like, bared the burden alone, you haven't. You've been very transparent step by step, shot by shot, positive excitement, devastation, every step of the way just sharing. As you reflect back on the whole range, what have you learned and what works best? The biggest takeaway that I've had from all

关于这一点，我认为它适用于远比试管婴儿或生育更广泛的领域。

of this, and I think it applies to much more than IVF or fertility.

但是

But the

我不得不摒弃并真正内化的一个观念是：分享你的困境并不会让你成为关心你的人的负担。这听起来很简单，但它能让你卸下重担。没有人愿意在群聊中被视为悲观者，或是在他人享受成功时被怜悯的对象。没人希望让别人在自己面前如履薄冰。而我认为，背负这种心理负担会极大限制自己——因为生活中的经历让我明白，那些在乎你的人正等待着机会为你挺身而出，只要有机会，他们就会用实际行动证明对你的支持。

thing I've had to unlearn and really just internalize is sharing your struggles does not make you a burden to the people who care about you. And it sounds so simple, but it is relieving yourself. No one wants to be perceived as the sad sack in the group chat or wants to be perceived as the one who's pitied, you know, when everyone else is enjoying success. No one wants to feel like they're making anyone else walk on eggshells around them. And I think that can be so limiting to kind of carry that burden when the reality that I've learned because the people in my life have shown me that the people who care about you are waiting for the opportunity to show up for you and to show you that they're there for you if they have the opportunity.

因此对我来说，能够依靠社区、朋友和家人的支持是一种莫大的福气。知道有些人（包括素未谋面的）从世界各地为我祈祷——这是何等的恩赐？即使在个人生活中也是如此。女性可能因工作或生活状况等原因不愿过早分享，但对于那些真正关心你、属于你核心信任圈的人，如果你给予他们按你需要的方式支持你的机会，我保证他们会带着同理心、关怀与支持出现，并感激有机会向你证明他们有多在乎你。

And so for me, it has been such a blessing to be able to lean on the support of my community, of my friends, of my family, to know that there are people, some of them who I've never even met, that are sending me prayers from around the world. Like, what a blessing is that? But even in your own personal life. And there are a number of reasons why women may not share early, whether it's related to their jobs or whatever's going on in their life. But for the people who care about you, who are in your trusted inner circle, if you give them the opportunity to show up for you in the ways that you need it, I guarantee that they will be there with empathy, compassion, and support, and be grateful for the opportunity to show you how much they care about you.

关于公开谈论生活中所有经历带来的力量，你学到的最重要心得是什么？无论是与核心圈的人还是朋友交流。毕竟太多人在沉默中承受痛苦，太多人对现状感到羞耻，或只是觉得被困住、沮丧、悲伤、哀恸而不愿开口。但当你能够敞开心扉时，你体会到了怎样的解放感或力量？

What have you learned in terms of a big takeaway for yourself about the power that comes from just talking openly about everything that's going on in your life? Whether it's with people in your closed circle or it's with friends. Because so many people do suffer in silence. So many people are ashamed of what's happening or just feel stuck or upset or sad or grieving about it so they don't wanna talk about it. But what have you learned about the freedom or the power that you feel when you are able to just be open.

我怀孕了。我没怀上。我得到工作了。我落选了。我仍为分手痛不欲生。

I am pregnant. I'm not pregnant. I got the job. I didn't get the job. I'm still devastated from the breakup.

无论正在经历什么。

Like, whatever it is that's going on.

没错。我觉得人们常常混淆透明与勇敢，认为‘你能分享这些真是太勇敢了’，但实际上这并不需要勇气。这只是我真实的生活状态，是某个周二或周三正在发生的事，是我正在经历的日常。

Right. I think people attribute a lot of times, you know, they conflate transparency with bravery and think, you know, that's so brave of you to share, and it's like, it's not brave. This is literally just my life. This is what is happening today on a Tuesday or a Wednesday. This is what I'm going through.

能获得这样的支持确实很棒，得到共情的回应也很美好。但对我而言，保持透明更像是一种减压阀——我不再需要把个人生活和职业生活割裂成不同模块，不必对某些人扮演特定角色，只需做真实的自己。让那些愿意接纳完整我的人留在我的阵营，同时自然筛选掉那些不愿参与这一切的人。

And it is wonderful to have that level of support, you know, and to be met with with compassion for that. But I think it's a pressure release valve for me too to just be transparent and to stop feeling like I have to compartmentalize every aspect of my personal or professional life to be this to this person, to be this to those people, and to just be me. And to have the people who are ready to be a part of that and who see me for all of me to be in my corner and to perhaps weed out the ones who, you know, aren't there for all of that.

我想请你详细谈谈刚才提到的‘生活分区管理’。你拥有辉煌的事业、大量的研究和远大理想，我知道你2026年还有项重要任务。但此刻你同时在进行试管婴儿的旅程。你是如何让这些看似无法共存的事情同步推进的？

I would love to have you talk a little bit about because you just said something about the managing different compartments of your life. You've got this big career and all this research and these big dreams, And I know you have another mission that is coming up in 2026. And yet here you are going through the IVF journey. Right. How do you keep yourself pushing both things forward when they seem like they might not be able to coexist?

回到你之前说的：普通人只要解除思维限制器，找到那个开关，就能成就非凡。我们常自我设限说‘鱼与熊掌不可兼得’。你是如何训练自己同时推进多项事务的？这与大多数人‘一次只能专注一件事’的思维截然不同。

And if we go back to what you said that ordinary people can do extraordinary things if we are able to stop the limiter, find the switch and stop limiting the way that we think about things, that we're capable of extraordinary things. I think a lot of us stop ourselves because we say we can't have this and that. Right. So how do you coach yourself to keep moving forward on a number of different things at the same time versus what a lot of people do, which is just thinking they can only do one?

是的。多年来我训练自己的内心独白始终在问：‘为什么不能是我？’这个心态需要精准把握——不是傲慢地认为‘我配得上这些’或‘这些就该属于我’，而是一种沉静的自信：只要我足够持久地努力，为什么不能是我？

Yeah. You know, for me, my inner monologue over time, I have trained to sort of help me ask the question, why not me? In so many different areas. And it's not I wanna be really, really precise about what that mindset is because it is not the ego of I deserve this or this, you know, this will definite I can do all of this. It should be me doing these things.

这种谦逊与自信的混合体，让我敢于追求愿景板上的全部目标，而不必拘泥于某个象限。当然过程并不完美，不可能所有事都同步完成，需要不断切换重心——但为了实现完整的人生愿景，我甘愿做出这种权衡。

But there is the quiet confidence of if I work hard enough for long enough, why not me? And I do think that that blend of humility and confidence has given me, you know, the ability to give myself permission to go after the entire vision board, all of it, and to not feel like I have to only stick to one quadrant of it at one time. You know? Is it always perfect? No.

无论是事业早期的失败、成功、希望破灭或实现，所有经验都适用于我的个人生活。比如面对试管婴儿周期的重大挫折时，我始终遵循这个原则：当撞上南墙，我调整的是方法而非目标。

It's not, you know, everything at the same time all at once. I do have to toggle, but that's a trade off I am more than willing to make in order to have the entire vision board. And I think that through all of the different failures, successes, hopes, you know, dashed, made, all of it, it's like the same lessons that I've learned from my early career, I also apply in my personal life, which is that when I hit a brick wall, I am changing my approach. I'm not changing my goal. And I think over and over again, whether it's fertility that I'm dealing with, it's like that IVF cycle was a devastating failure last time.

我改变的是方法，而非目标。工作亦是如此。明白吗？我怀揣着这个愿景，虽然实际进度可能和最初设想的时间线有出入，但这正是心态力量的核心所在。

I'm changing my protocol, not my goal. And the same thing with work. You know? I have this goal. I have this vision for my life, and it may not be on the exact timeline that I originally imagined, but I think that is the the essence of this power of mindset.

这就像谦逊与自信的矛盾体——残酷的现实是，太多人永远无法抵达彼岸，要么因自负阻碍而无法从初次或二次失败中恢复，要么更糟，因惧怕失败而不敢尝试。但若能保持谦逊与自信的平衡，在起伏与停滞中保持韧性，终将抵达目标的彼岸。当有人说你只是幸运时，你心里会清楚：这不是运气，我只是比他人更愿意经历失败。

It's like this contradiction of humility and confidence because the hard truth is that so many people will never get there because they will either let their ego get in the way and they won't be able to mentally recover from the first or the second time that they fail, or worse, they will be so afraid of failing that they don't even try. But if you can keep that balance of humility and confidence and keep that resilience through the ups, the downs, the plateaus, you will find yourself on the other side of your goals eventually. And then when someone tells you how lucky you got, you'll be able to think to yourself, I didn't get lucky. I was just willing to fail more times than someone else was willing to try.

我想把话题稍微扩展到太空飞行之外。还有试管婴儿技术。那个'为什么不能是我'的信念——对于那些准备接纳这个框架的人来说，他们将用这个信念来挑战自我设限。

I'd love to expand this out a little bit beyond spaceflight Right. And IVF. You know, the phrase why not me? For somebody who is leaning into that, so they're gonna take this framework that you've used, why not me? To really challenge the limiter in your mind.

好，我看到非凡的可能性时就会想：为什么不能是我？但如果你持有那种'让我告诉你为什么不行'的思维模式——比如'你缺乏经验'

Okay, I see something extraordinary. Well, why not me? Right. If you have the kind of brain or mindset that's like, well, let me tell you why not you. You don't have the experience.

过去搞砸过所有事、没有资金、年龄太大、这个不行那个不对

You've screwed up everything in the past. You have no money. Too old. You're too this. You're too that.

对于那些内心设限机制连'为什么不能是我'都不愿考虑的人，你有什么建议？

What advice do you have for the person whose limiter is arguing against even considering why

直接行动，开始尝试。就像我做社交媒体时——我从未自诩为创作者。但通过持续输出和尝试，我竟融入了这个从未想过的领域。现在看着网络上那些激励人心的人物，我会对自己说：好吧...

not me? Just show up and start trying. That was you know, for me with social media, it's like I I don't haven't thought of myself as a creator. And yet putting in the consistency, trying it, I never even thought of that world as being something that I would be a part of. And then here I am thinking and watching all these inspirational people online and thinking to myself, okay.

好吧，为什么不能是我呢？我可以试试。你知道吗？我可以展现自己。一开始会有点尴尬吗？

Well, why why not me? I could try. You know? I could put myself out there. Is it cringey at the beginning?

是的。你知道吗？你是否不确定、不知道方向在哪里？当然。但这让我充满能量吗？

Yeah. You know? Are you unsure and uncertain where it's leading? Sure. But is it energizing me?

我享受这个过程吗？做这件事时我感到兴奋吗？是的。所以我会继续前进，继续尝试。

Am I enjoying it? Do I feel a spark when I'm doing it? Yes. So I'm gonna keep going, and I'm gonna keep trying.

给我描述一下你20岁时在哪里？我想了解20岁的凯莉。是的。

Describe for me where were you when you were 20 years old? I wanna I wanna know about the 20 year old Kelly. Yeah.

那时在纽约市探险者俱乐部打拼，怀揣远大梦想，感觉生活中有太多想探索的事物，几乎被选择的压力淹没——万一必须选一个怎么办？有那么多想做的事、想实现的成就、想成为的不同版本的自己。而美好的是，我现在依然有这种感觉。

So New York City explorers club, hustling, you know, big dreaming, just feeling like there's so many things in this life that I wanna explore, and it's almost like the stress of feeling. What what if I have to choose one? You know? So many things that I wanna do and achieve and versions of myself that I wanna be. And I think the beautiful thing is I still feel that.

我们谈到的所有这些——当宇航员、做母亲，这些都是我身份的一部分，而我依然感觉才刚刚开始。当我展望人生的下一个十年，四十岁时，我保留彻底重塑自我的权利。我不知道未来会怎样，可能会把全部精力时间投入家庭。

All of these things that we've talked about, being an astronaut, being a mom, being these are all aspects of my identity, and I still feel like I'm just getting started. You know? This is when I look at the next decade of my life, my forties, it's like I reserve the right to completely reinvent myself. I don't know what it'll look like. It could be me spending all of my energy and time on my family.

也可能创业，或是做与过往经历完全无关但能让我找到能量、目标和动力的事，我觉得这非常令人兴奋且充满活力。

It could be me starting a business. It could be something completely unrelated to anything I've ever done, but that I'm finding energy and purpose and drive in, and I find that so exciting and so energizing.

那么，为什么你认为保留重塑自我的权利如此重要？我想，你知道，其中一个原因

So why do you think it's so important to reserve the right to reinvent yourself? I think, you know, one of

在我第一次太空飞行后的即刻感受中，几乎有一种抑郁的情绪，因为长久以来，我是那个梦想有一天飞向太空的凯莉。然后我实现了那个梦想，之后却立刻陷入了一点身份认同危机。当然，那种狂喜感还在，像是‘天啊，梦想成真了’。但紧接着就是，‘好吧，现在呢？我现在是谁？’

the things that I felt in the immediate aftermath of my first spaceflight was almost this sense of depression because for so long, I was Kelly who wanted to fly to space one day. And then I achieved that dream, and it was a little bit of an identity crisis immediately after. Of course, there was the euphoria like, oh my god, dream come true. But then it was like, okay, what now? Who am I now?

我现在追求的是什么？我花了一点时间才明白，还有更高的星辰可以追寻，并允许自己望向地平线之外，意识到我在20岁时定型的梦想不必是我视野的全部终点。就像现在我36岁了，站在不同的高度眺望。那里还有更多，我想继续追逐。

What am I reaching for now? And it it took a beat for me to figure out that there are still higher stars to reach for and to give myself permission to, like, look beyond the horizon and know that my dream that I crystallized at 20 does not have to be the end all of my visual field. It's like now I'm 36, and I'm looking from a different vantage point. And there's more out there, and I wanna keep going after it.

所以，如果听众有这样的感觉，‘天哪，还有更远的星辰在等我，但我完全不知道那是什么。’是的。你有什么特别的方法来帮助你弄清楚下一步想做什么吗？因为我喜欢那句话，‘我保留重塑自我的权利’，我甚至不知道我的四十岁会是什么样子。对吧。

So if the person listening has this sense, oh my gosh, there's a further star out there for me, but I don't know what the hell it is. Yeah. Is there anything that you do in particular that helps you figure out what you want to do next? Because I love that saying, I reserve the right to reinvent myself and I don't even know what my forties might be. Right.

我想很多人站在当下会想，‘我连下周该做什么都不知道。凯莉，我不知道如何重塑自己。我怎么能为自己看到一颗更亮、更大、更遥远的星辰？当我不知道自己想要什么时，如何梦想得更大？’是的。

I think a lot of people stand in the present moment and go, I don't even know what should be doing next week. I don't know how to reinvent myself, Kelly. How do I see a a brighter, bigger, more distant star for myself? How do I dream bigger when I don't know what I want? Yeah.

你做了哪些事情来帮助你明确下一步想去哪里？是的。其中一种

What are some things that you do in order to help you crystallize Yeah. Where you wanna go next? One

我真正喜欢进行的自我反省是，理解当下什么消耗我的能量，什么又给我能量。嗯。因为这确实能帮助我决定把精力投向哪里。如果那一刻我没有方向，至少我可以排除一些我知道不是这个的选择。明白吗？

sort of introspection that I really like to take stock of in myself is understanding in the present what drains me and what energizes me. Mhmm. Because that really helps me decide where to spend my energy. And if I don't have a direction in that current moment, I can at least remove some that I know it's not this one. You know?

这正在耗尽我的精力。这不是我想走的路。感觉有些不对劲。当我慢慢开始理清思路，好吧，那么，日常中真正让我充实的是什么？

This is draining my battery. This is not the the path that I wanna be on. Something feels wrong. And as I slowly start to sort of crystallize and clarify, okay. Well, what is filling my cup on a day to day basis?

当我结束平凡一天的琐事后躺在床上夜不能寐，是什么让我兴奋不已？是什么想法让我心潮澎湃、充满能量？什么能激发我的灵感和动力？然后朝着那个方向探索，或许能帮你更清晰地定义那个梦想的模样。

When I lay awake at night in bed after the minutiae of my normal day, what is getting me excited? What is my mind spinning on that feels exciting and energizing? And what sparks inspiration for me and motivation? And then being able to sort of navigate in that direction can really help you perhaps refine what that dream might be.

你知道，对于那些正在听并想着'我太老了'、'我太年轻'或'我没有追求梦想的经验'的人，你会对他们说什么？

You know, for somebody who's listening and they're just thinking, well, I'm too old. I'm too young. I don't have the experience to go after my dreams. What would you say to them?

无论处于哪个年龄或阶段，重塑自我永远为时不晚。你可以今天就决定：我要让自己进入'为何不能是我'的模式，我要加倍押注自己，我能从砖墙中开辟新路。重要的是意识到这些可能性属于你，别让他人的局限成为你梦想的枷锁。

There is no age or stage where it is not possible to reinvent yourself and to decide that today is the day that I am going to let myself enter why not me mode, that I'm going to double down on the bet on myself, that I can pave new paths from brick walls. And I think it's really important to just realize that these are possibilities that exist for you and make sure you're not applying other people's limits on your own dreams. What's your message to

对于那些极度渴望走出舒适区，却被恐惧牢牢束缚的听众，你想说什么？

the person listening who really desperately wants to move out of their comfort zone, but they just feel so held back by fear?

我认为你得问问自己：我们谈论的失败究竟是什么？后果会怎样？难道后果就是有人看着你说'你想创的业、写的书、做的项目都没成功，真是个失败者'吗？真正让你畏缩不前的后果到底是什么？

I think you have to ask yourself, like, what is the actual failure that we're talking about here? Like, what's the consequence? Is the consequence that someone looks at you and says, you know, that dream business that you wanted to start, that book you wanted to write, that project that, you know, everything what you wanted to do, you didn't make it. What a loser. You know, what is the actual consequence of you putting yourself out there?

就我而言，每次稍微审视这种恐惧——比如'如果我把梦想公之于众却没能实现，别人会怎么想'——就会发现其实无足轻重。如果能跨过这道坎，让他人成为你旅程的啦啦队，你或许还能在途中收获意外之喜。

And for me, anytime I kind of interrogated that fear just a little bit, it's like, what are these people gonna think if I put this dream out into the universe and people didn't see me make it? It's like, okay. And if you can get past that and let other people become cheerleaders in your journey, you know, you might be able to create a little bit of serendipity along the way.

我认为这个建议非常有趣——花点时间拆解你害怕的批评。对吧。因为当你真正开始拆解它时，比如他们能怎样，嘲笑我吗？是啊。他们能怎样，就算我失败了，他们可能甚至不会记得我宣布过这件事。

I think that's really interesting advice to just take a moment and unpack the criticism that you're afraid of. Right. Because when you really do start to unpack it, like what are they gonna do, laugh at me? Yeah. What are they gonna, they're probably not even gonna remember that I declared this if I fail at it.

他们能怎样，评判我吗？事实是无论你畏手畏脚还是大展拳脚，人们都会评判你。如果你一直畏缩不前，唯一评判你的人就是你自己。绝对如此。既然无论如何人们都会评判你，首先让他们评判去吧，但你倒不如放手一搏，因为你无法控制他们的评判。而且我认为，当你真正审视自己害怕的是什么时，他人评判的可怕程度就会缩小。

What are they gonna do, judge me? The fact is people judge you whether you're playing small or you're playing big. And if you keep yourself playing small, the only person who's judging you is you. Absolutely. And if people are gonna judge you no matter what, first of all let them, but you might as well play big since you can't control the fact that they're gonna judge you and I think you shrink how scary the judgment is of other people when you actually examine what are you actually afraid of.

没错。如果你把它写在纸上，你会意识到这其实没那么可怕，说实话，甚至有点荒谬。

Right. And if you put it down on a piece of paper, you recognize like it's not really that scary and honestly, it's kind of ridiculous.

如果你害怕的是因为追逐梦想却尚未成功而显得可笑或愚蠢，这就是另一回事了。失败并非大写字母F的失败（彻底失败）。那是学习的过程。那是向前跌倒，而我认为这正是许多人遗憾止步的地方。你最初撞上了这第一堵砖墙。

If what you're fearing is that you're going to look silly or look stupid because you chased a dream and you're not quite there yet, like, that's the other part. It's like a failure is not capital f failure. That is learning. That is falling forward, and that's I think where so many people unfortunately stop. You run into this first brick wall initially.

对吧？然后你面临选择。要么加倍押注于自己，调整方法继续前进，要么退缩并说，好吧，也许这不适合我。我认为如果你能一次次重新站起来，让人见证这个过程，这就是坚韧。

Right? And then you have a decision. You can either double down on the bet on yourself and adjust your approach and keep going, or you can retreat and say, okay. Maybe this isn't for me. And I think if you're able to sort of get back up again over and over, you know, and let people watch along the way, it's like that's the grit.

这就是成功。这种韧性会让你走得更远更远。

That's the success. That's the resilience that gets you further and further.

我想请你直接对一直在这里倾听学习的观众说几句话。如果他们根据你分享的人生故事、经验教训、犯过的错误以及我们讨论的真相，只采取一个行动，你认为他们最应该做的重要事情是什么？

I would love to have you speak directly to the person who has been here with us listening and learning. And if they just take one action based on everything that you've shared with us from your life story, the lessons learned, the mistakes that you've made, the truths that we've talked about, what do you think the most important thing is that they should do?

我认为最重要的事情是，你应该允许自己比迄今为止的目标再高一点，梦想再大一点。超越下一个目标的是什么？你现在心里有一个想法。把它发挥到极致，放大一百倍来看。

The most important thing that I think you should do is give yourself permission to reach a little bit higher than you've been reaching to date, to dream just a little bit bigger. What's beyond that next goal? You've got one thing in mind right now. Play that out to the nth. A 100 x zoom out.

如果你移除眼前或你认为存在的所有限制，那会是什么样子？看看你的生活，想象在一个一切顺利的完美世界里，你的生活会是什么样子？我的时间会如何分配？我的精力会如何投入？我的日常生活会是怎样的？

And what would it look like if you removed every single limitation that is currently in front of you or that you perceive to be in front of you? And you take a look at your life, and you think, in a perfect world where everything went right, what would my life look like? How would my time be spent? How would my energy be spent? What would my days look like?

允许自己稍微梦想一下，并迈出最初的思考步伐：好吧，如果我足够长时间地努力做这件事，为什么不能是我呢？这样你就能加倍押注在自己身上。

And give yourself a little bit of permission to dream that for yourself and to take those initial steps into thinking, okay. Well, if I work hard enough for long enough at this particular thing, why not me? And you'll be able to double down that bet on yourself.

Kelly，你的临别赠言是什么？

Kelly, what are your parting words?

你有能力让自己成就非凡之事，而且这

You're capable of making yourself capable of extraordinary things, And it

对你来说永远不晚。我很喜欢这一点。因为事实是，Kelly，每一个你看到在做你认为非凡之事的人，他们与你现在的唯一区别就是他们真正开始了。根据你今天与我们分享的一切，尤其是那三个字'为什么不能是我'，你已经掌握了Kelly的蓝图，不仅能梦想更大，还能开始采取行动将其变为现实。

is never too late for you to do that. I love that. Because the fact is, Kelly, absolutely every person that you see doing something that you think is extraordinary, the only difference between them and where you are right now is they actually got started. And based on everything that you shared with us today, and especially those three words, why not me? You've got Kelly's blueprint for not only dreaming bigger, but actually starting to take the actions that will turn it into your reality.

Kelly Girardi，非常感谢你今天来到这里。

Kelly Girardi, thank you so much for being here today.

非常感谢。同时也感谢你们的到来。

Thank you so much. And and thank you for being here.

感谢你们花时间聆听这些能帮助你们及所爱之人看到生活更多可能性的话语。我希望今天所学的一切也能助你们开始绘制蓝图，将其转化为现实。若无人告知，我想以朋友身份告诉你：我爱你，相信你，也相信你不仅能看见更广阔的可能性，更能创造更美好的生活。好了。

Thank you for taking the time to listen to something that is gonna help you and the people that you love see a bigger possibility for your life. And I hope everything that you learn today will also help you start to create the blueprint to turn it into your reality. And in case nobody else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that as your friend, I love you, and I believe in you. And I believe in your ability to not only see a bigger possibility, but to create a better life. Alrighty.

下一期节目我会等着你们。只要按下播放键，我就会即刻迎接你们，到时见。今天我的状态有些散乱，但等我们专注起来就会好的——梅，真不明白这些东西怎么这么容易脏。我们也开始吧。

I'll be waiting for you in the very next episode. I'm gonna welcome you in the moment you hit play, so I'll see you there. It's just a day where I am scattered. I won't be once I we lock don't know how these things get so dirty, May. Let's do it too.

好了。感觉不错吧？嗯，太棒了。非常高兴你们在这里。

Alright. So you feeling good? Yeah. Awesome. We're so glad you're here.

我也是，吉拉迪。

Me too. Girardi.

比如乔·吉拉迪？其实不是。乔·吉拉迪。

Like, Joe Girardi. Not really. Joe Girardi.

像是洋基队那个？他好像是前任总经理吉拉迪。哦但这是波士顿啊——当然，搞错队伍也搞错听众了。

Like from the Yankees. He's like the old GM. Girardi. Oh, but this is Boston. Of course, wrong wrong team, wrong crowd.

布里，我们还好吧，亲爱的？太棒了。好的。很好。它就在某个地方。

Bri, are we good, hon? Awesome. Okay. Good. It's somewhere.

天啊。我之前吃了那个，像是甜点一样的。我吃了那个上面有泡沫的冰品。是的。现在这杯就像是杯子里装了四倍浓缩，天哪。

Oh my god. Now I had that, like, dessert one. I had the ice thing with the little foam on top. Yes. Now this was like a quad shot in a cup, like oh god.

没错。我忘了结束节目。天啊。哦，还有一件事。不。

That's right. I forgot to end the show. Oh my god. Oh, and one more thing. And no.

这不是花絮。这是法律声明。你知道的，律师写的那些东西，我需要读给你听。本播客仅供教育和娱乐目的。我只是你的朋友。

This is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know, what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend.

我不是持证治疗师，本播客也不旨在替代医生、专业教练、心理治疗师或其他合格专业人士的建议。明白了吗？很好。我们下期见。

I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

天狼星XM播客。

SiriusXM Podcasts.