299. 情感不成熟父母的心理

这是一档iHeart播客节目。

This is an iHeart podcast.

在《健康那些事儿》播客中，我们将探讨所有让你夜不能寐的健康问题。

On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.

我是普里扬卡·沃利医生，一位拥有双委员会认证的医师。

I'm Doctor. Priyanka Wally, a double board certified physician.

我是哈里·昆达博鲁，一名喜剧演员，也是曾在凌晨三点搜索‘我是不是得了坏血病’的人。在我们的节目中，我们用独特的方式讨论健康话题，比如我们那期关于糖尿病的节目。

And I'm Hari Kundabolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, Do I have scurvy at 3AM? And on our show, we're talking about health in a different way, like our episode where we look at diabetes.

在美国，大约50%的美国人处于糖尿病前期。

In The United States, I mean, fifty percent of Americans are prediabetic.

二型糖尿病有多大的可预防性？

How preventable is type two?

非常高。请在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何你收听播客的平台关注《健康那些事儿》。

Extremely. Listen to health stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

她说，约翰尼，孩子们昨晚没回家。

And she said, Johnny, the kids didn't come home last night.

在德克萨斯中部平原，青少年接连死亡——毫无缘由的自杀、离奇的事故和残忍的谋杀。这情节简直像是直接从《绝命毒师》里搬出来的。毒品、酒精、人口贩卖。

Along the Central Texas Plains, teens are dying, suicides that don't make sense, strange accidents, and brutal murders. In what seems to be a plot ripped straight out of Breaking Bad. Drugs, alcohol, trafficking of people.

绝对有人知道事情的真相。

There are people out there that absolutely know what happened.

请在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或你常用的播客平台收听《纸鬼：德州青少年谋杀案》。

Listen to Paper Ghosts, the Texas Teen Murders on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

我是罗伯特·史密斯，这位是雅各布·戈尔茨坦。我们曾主持过一档名为《金钱星球》的节目。

I'm Robert Smith, and this is Jacob Goldstein. And we used to host a show called Planet Money.

现在我们回归制作这档名为《商业史》的新播客，讲述历史上最伟大的商业理念、人物和企业。

And now we're back making this new podcast called business history about the best ideas and people and businesses in history.

也会涉及商业史上最恶劣的人物、最糟糕的创意和最具有破坏性的公司。

And some of the worst people, horrible ideas, and destructive companies in the history of business.

第一集：西南航空如何凭借廉价机票和免费威士忌在航空业中杀出一条血路。

First episode, how Southwest Airlines used cheap seats and free whiskey to fight its way into the airline business.

这故事简直太德州了。

The most Texas story ever.

在iHeartRadio应用或Apple播客上收听《商业历史》。

Listen to business history on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts

或任何你获取播客内容的地方。

Or wherever you get your podcasts.

当你将

What do you get when

五十年代的好莱坞、一位怀揣梦想的古巴音乐家，与史上最具标志性的情景喜剧之一混合，会得到什么？答案就是德西·阿内兹。在这档由德西·阿内兹和威尔默·瓦尔德拉玛主持的播客中，我将带你探寻德西的人生轨迹——看他如何重新定义美国电视，以及这对我们这些在荧幕外等待看到自己面孔的人们意味着什么。在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或任何播客平台收听《主角德西·阿内兹与威尔默·瓦尔德拉玛》。

you mix nineteen fifties Hollywood, a Cuban musician with a dream, and one of the most iconic sitcoms of all time? You get Desi Arness. On the podcast starring Desi Arness and Wilmer Valderrama. I'll take you on a journey to Desi's life, how he redefined American television, and what that meant for all of us from the sidelines, waiting for a face like ours on screen. Listen to starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

大家好，欢迎回到《二十几岁心理学》，这档播客我们将探讨二十多岁经历的重大人生转变及其心理意义。大家好，欢迎回到节目，欢迎回到播客。无论你是新听众还是老听众，无论身处世界何处，非常高兴能再次与你们共度新的一期，让我们继续解析二十几岁的心理奥秘。

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the psychology of your twenties, the podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they mean for our psychology. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world, it is so great to have you here back for another episode as we, of course, break down the psychology of our twenties.

今天，我们要探讨一个情感上相当沉重的话题。这绝对是心理学、成长与存在领域中一个让许多人深有感触的领域，也正是我们要讨论它的原因。今天我们要剖析的是情感不成熟父母的心理状态——他们是怎样的人，这意味着什么，具体表现如何，对我们产生什么影响，最重要的是，我们如何真正从宽容而非沮丧的立场出发继续前行，而不是试图改变他们或期望他们变成不同的人。因为通过本期内容我们会阐明，有时候这真的非常非常困难。

Today, we are diving into a topic that it is pretty emotionally charged. It's definitely one of those areas of psychology and just growing up and existence that definitely hits close to home for a lot of people, which is exactly why think we're talking about it. And what we're unpacking today is the psychology of emotionally immature parents. What kind of people they are, what it means, what it looks like, how it impacts us, and most importantly, how we can really move forward from a place of grace instead of frustration and needing to change them and wanting them to be different people. Because as we will kind of illuminate through this episode, sometimes it's really, really difficult.

显然这对我们许多人来说都是非常敏感的话题。我们往往在成长过程中认为父母不会犯错。但随着我们获得更多独立性、知识和自我认知，裂痕就会开始显现。这种剖析可能令人不安，特别是因为父母在我们生命中占据如此重要的地位。在很长一段时间里，我们的生存完全依赖于他们。

This is obviously a very sensitive subject for many of us. I think we often grow up thinking our parents can do no wrong. But as we gain, I guess, more independence, more knowledge, more self awareness, cracks can really start to show. And that can be so unnerving to unpack, especially because, you know, our parents are such prominent figures in our lives. Our survival is so based on them for so long.

他们对我们至关重要。因此当我们突然或逐渐意识到他们的缺陷，发现他们或许没有以应有的方式支持我们时，这可能是个顿悟时刻，随之而来的是巨大的失落感。也许你一直感觉与父母的关系有些不对劲。他们可能只在符合自己条件时才给予关爱，或是虽然人在身边却情感疏离，又或者对你过度倾诉。

They are so important to us. So when we suddenly or slowly become aware of the ways in which they are flawed and the ways in which they have perhaps not showed up for us the way they needed to or should have been required to, it can be a bit of a epiphany moment followed by a real kind of crash and a real comedown. You know, perhaps you have always sensed that something was off in your relationship with your parents. You know, maybe they were loving but only on their terms. Or they were very present physically but very emotionally unavailable, or they confided in you too much.

他们过于依赖你，让你感觉自己在关系中不得不扮演成年人的角色。而现在的你开始意识到：等等，别人的父母不是这样的，也许这给我造成了长期伤害。如果这些话让你产生共鸣，那么本期内容就是为你准备的。

They leaned on you too heavily. They made you feel like you had to be the adult in the relationship. And at the age you are now, you're kind of realizing, wait. Other people's parents weren't like that, and maybe this has done some long term damage to me. And if any of that rings true, this episode is especially for you.

我们将探讨情感不成熟的表现形式，其心理根源，它如何影响我们二十多岁时的人生，以及最重要的——我们如何开始疗愈，如何打破代际循环。我还想强调，这不是一档谴责父母的节目。我认为责备不是处理这个话题的正确方式。我们真正要做的是通过诚实探讨来获得清晰认知，更好地理解这类人及其行为成因——不是为了纵容他们继续影响我们的生活，而是为了让我们真正获得疗愈。

We're gonna be exploring what emotional immaturity looks like, where it comes from psychologically, how it affects us in our twenties, and really importantly, how we can begin to heal, how we can break generational cycles. I also wanna mention, I think it's important to say this isn't gonna be, like, a parent bashing episode. I don't think that the right approach to this topic is blame. I don't think that's helpful. What it's really gonna be is just an honest attempt to find clarity and to understand these kinds of people better and to understand why they are the way they are, not to give them permission to continue to be that person and to continue to affect and impact our lives, but so that we can really heal.

这关乎我们自己。每个人的情况都会有所不同，某些内容可能与你无关，但我真心希望至少能让你感到不那么孤独。我们将讨论的这种情感不成熟往往难以察觉，因为它不一定表现为明显的外伤。我知道'创伤'这个词很刺耳，但这些情感忽视、情感虐待或心理困惑的经历确实会深刻塑造我们。

This is about us. And, you know, it is gonna be different for every person. There's some parts of this that you might not relate to, but I definitely hope that you can just feel a little bit less alone. This kind of emotional immaturity that we're gonna discuss, it often flies under the radar because it doesn't always look like overt or obvious trauma. I know the word trauma really rings alarm bells, but these things, these experiences of being emotionally neglected or emotionally mistreated or even just psychologically confused do shape us very, very deeply.

因此理解这些问题无疑是通往情感自由的第一步，能让你敞开心扉建立更充实、更有滋养性的关系。说了这么多，其实就想表达：希望本期内容对你有所帮助。希望这些信息能带来启发。我们准备了丰富的心理学知识、研究成果和各种概念理论。闲话少说，让我们开始探讨情感不成熟父母的心理机制。

So just understanding it is definitely the first step towards emotional freedom and opening yourself up to more fulfilling, nurturing relationships. So that is a lot of words for me to basically just to say, I hope this episode helps you. I hope it's informative. We have so much psychology, so much research, so much just concepts and theories packed into this episode. So without further ado, let us talk about the psychology of emotionally immature parents.

在《健康那些事》播客中，我们将探讨所有让你夜不能寐的健康问题。

On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.

是的，我是普里扬卡·沃利医生，拥有双重委员会认证的内科医师。

Yes, I'm Doctor. Priyanka Wally, a double board certified physician.

我是哈里·昆达博鲁，一名喜剧演员，曾经在凌晨三点谷歌搜索'我是不是得了坏血病？'

And I'm Hari Kundabolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, Do I have scurvy at three a. M?

在《健康那些事》里，我们用不同的方式讨论健康话题。

On Health Stuff, we're talking about health in a different way.

这不仅仅关乎我们能够

It's not only about what we can

为改善健康做些什么。

do to improve our health.

更关乎我们的健康状况如何反映我们的生活方式。

But also what our health says about us and the way we're living.

比如我们探讨糖尿病的那期节目。

Like our episode where we look at diabetes.

在美国，我是说，50%的美国人处于糖尿病前期。

In The United States, I mean, fifty percent of Americans are prediabetic.

二型糖尿病有多大的可预防性？

How preventable is type two?

非常高。或者我们深入分析芒果有多神奇的那期节目。

Extremely. Or our in-depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are.

噢，很难向世界其他地方解释，你们觉得自己的芒果还不错，因为芒果确实很棒，但你们根本不懂。

Oh, it's hard to explain to rest of the world that you like, your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible, but, like, you don't even know.

你不

You don't

懂。你

know. You

不知道。事情会变成

don't know. It's going to be

一段有趣的旅程，敬请收听。

a fun ride, so tune in.

在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或你获取播客的任何平台收听健康相关内容。

Listen to health stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

她说，约翰尼，孩子们昨晚没回家。

And she said, Johnny, the kids didn't come home last night.

在德克萨斯中部平原，青少年接连死亡——毫无道理的自杀、离奇事故和残忍凶杀，情节宛如《绝命毒师》的现实版。毒品、酒精、人口贩卖。

Along the Central Texas Plains, teens are dying, suicides that don't make sense, strange accidents, and brutal murders in what seems to be a plot ripped straight out of Breaking Bad. Drugs, alcohol, trafficking of people.

绝对有人知道真相。

There are people out there that absolutely know what happened.

在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或你获取播客的任何平台收听《纸鬼：德州青少年谋杀案》。

Listen to Paper Ghosts, The Texas Teen Murders on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

当你把

What do you get when

五十年代的好莱坞、一位怀揣梦想的古巴音乐家，与史上最具标志性的情景喜剧相结合，你会得到谁？答案就是德西·阿纳兹——一位开拓者、商人、丈夫，或许最重要的是，他是首位打破黄金时段电视壁垒的拉丁裔明星。我是威尔默·瓦尔德拉玛，没错，我从小看着他长大，可能就像你和数百万观众一样。但对我而言，我在他的故事中看到了自己的影子。

you mix nineteen fifties Hollywood, a Cuban musician with a dream and one of the most iconic sitcoms of all time? You get Desi Arnaz, a trailblazer, a businessman, a husband, and maybe most importantly, the first Latino to break prime time wide open. I'm Wilmer Valderrama, and yes, I grew up watching him, probably just like you and millions of others. But for me, I saw myself in his story.

从搭建金丝雀笼子到今夜站在纽约的舞台上，这一路何其漫长。

From planting canary cages to this night here in New York, it's a long ways.

在这档由德西·阿纳兹与威尔默·瓦尔德拉玛主持的播客中，我将带你探寻德西的人生轨迹——那些与我们命运交汇的瞬间，他如何重新定义美国电视行业，以及这一切对我们这些在荧幕外等待看到与自己相似面孔的观众意味着什么。这是一个关于一个人如何用聚光灯为无数后来者照亮道路的故事，也是关于我们如何传承他精神遗产的篇章。请收听由德西·阿纳兹与威尔默·瓦尔德拉玛主持的节目，该节目隶属于

On the podcast starring Desi Arness and Wilmer Valderrama, I'll take you in a journey to Desi's life, the moments he has overlapped with mine, how he redefined American television, and what that meant for all of us watching from the sidelines, waiting for a face like ours on screen. This is the story of how one man's spotlight lit the path for so many others and how we carry his legacy today. Listen to starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama as part of

My Cultura播客网络，收听平台包括

the My Cultura podcast network available on

iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或您获取播客的任何平台。

the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

我们开始吧。

Here we go.

大家好，我是卡尔·佩恩。在我的新播客《又来了》中，我们将聚焦当下热点话题，探讨历史为何不断重演。你可能认识我是《哈罗德与库马尔》系列电影里第二性感的演员，但我同时还是作家、白宫幕僚，以及——大概十五秒前刚解锁的新身份——播客主持人。这一路上我结识了许多科学、政治和流行文化领域的专家朋友，每周都会邀请其中一位来解答我那些迫切的问题。

Hey. I'm Kel Penn, and on my new podcast, here we go again, we'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? You may know me as the second hottest actor from the Harold and Kumar movies, but I'm also an author, a White House staffer, and as of, like, fifteen seconds ago, a podcast host. Along the way, I've made some friends who are experts in science, politics, and pop culture. And each week, one of them will be joining me to answer my burning questions.

比如：我们是否正走向像08年那样的金融危机？非一夫一妻制又流行起来了吗？为什么航班提前两分钟降落时永远没有接机口？我们的嘉宾阵容包括皮特·布蒂吉格、斯泰西·艾布拉姆斯、莉莉·辛格和比尔·奈。

Like, are we heading towards another financial crash like in o eight? Is non monogamy back in style? How come there's never a gate ready for your flight when it lands like two minutes early? We've got guests like Pete Buttigieg, Stacey Abrams, Lily Singh, and Bill Nye.

当你开始将外太空武器化时，事态很可能会变得非常糟糕。

When you start weaponizing outer space, things can potentially go really wrong.

听着，现在的世界确实看起来很可怕——因为它就是如此。但我的目标是让你通过收听节目对未来稍感宽慰。欢迎在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或任何你收听播客的平台订阅卡尔·佩恩主持的《又来了》。

Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now because it is. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here We Go Again with Cal Pen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

让我们从一些高层次信息开始本期内容打好基础。所谓情感不成熟的父母究竟指什么？因为这确实某种程度上显得很主观。首先需要知道，这个说法最初是由林赛·C·吉布森博士推广开来的。

Let's start this episode with some very high level information to kind of cover our bases. What do we really mean by emotionally immature parents? Because it does seem kind of subjective in a way. Well, the first thing you need to know is that this phrase was first popularized by doctor Lindsey C. Gibson.

她是临床心理学家，只要你曾涉足这个领域，很可能就知道她的著作《情感不成熟父母的成年子女》。这本书2015年出版，堪称该领域的圣经。书中将情感不成熟定义为一组特征，包括缺乏同理心、情绪不稳定、自我中心，以及根深蒂固地逃避情感责任。那么具体表现是怎样的呢？

She is a clinical psychologist, and if you have ever even dipped your toe into this space before, you will probably know of her book, Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. It was released in 2015. It is like the bible on this kind of thing. In this book, she basically introduces us to this idea of emotional immaturity as a set of traits that includes things like poor empathy, volatility, self centeredness, and a real ingrained avoidance of emotional responsibility. So what does this look like?

典型表现可能是父母难以认可你的情绪。比如当你表达焦虑、沮丧或受伤时，他们只会叫你冷静，说你反应过度。或许他们会过度个人化地对待你的请求或反馈。比如你说'我不喜欢你这样做'，他们就会回答'看来我就是个糟糕母亲'、'我大概是全世界最差劲的父母'。

This might look like parents who struggle to validate your emotions. So you've said you're anxious or you're frustrated or you're hurting, and they said to calm down, or they said that you were overreacting. Perhaps they took your request or your feedback too personally. You know, you'd say, I don't like it when you do that, and they'd say, well, I guess I'm just a horrible mother. I guess I'm the worst parent alive.

这基本上是在说，你的想法无关紧要。你必须照顾我的感受。情感不成熟的父母对脆弱性也感到非常不适，这与最后一点症状相辅相成。经常在你分享感受时，他们可能会假装没听见或听不懂。

That's a way of them basically saying, what you have to say doesn't matter. You have to protect my feelings. Emotionally immature parents are also very uncomfortable with vulnerability. Kind of goes hand in hand with that last symptom. Often, may pretend to not hear hear you or or understand you when you're sharing your feelings.

或者他们会敷衍你。他们会说‘我们能不能晚点再谈？’他们可能会把问题反推给你，或者对你冷处理。任何形式的情感开放或脆弱都会被掩盖。他们期望你来管理他们的情绪。

Or they dismiss you. They say, can we talk about it later? They would maybe turn it back onto you or give you the silent treatment. Any kind of emotional openness or vulnerability is really swept under the rug. They expect you to manage their emotions.

这是非常自我中心的行为。他们对你提出要求，本质上希望你不仅是他们情感的见证者，还要充当他们的心理医生、咨询师、疗愈者、医生、婚姻顾问。所有这些角色，作为孩子，本不该由你承担，对吧？

It's a very self centered thing. They make demands of you. They ask you to essentially be their not just emotional witness, but their psychologist, their counselor, their healer, their doctor, their marriage counselor. All these things that as a child, that's not your role. Right?

你的角色不是反过来管教他们。他们才是成年人，是他们想要你，是他们选择生下你。因此他们需要准备好承担父母的责任，明白这与和孩子做朋友是不同的。

It's not your role to parent them. They are the adult. They are the ones who wanted you. They are the ones who chose to have you. And so they need to be, you know, ready to step into the role of parent and understand that it's not the same as being friends with your child.

为人父母与做朋友、做咨询师或做伴侣是不同的事情。作为孩子，你无法同时扮演所有这些角色。这是他们通常不理解的地方。常见的情况是父母会说‘是的，我女儿就像我最好的朋友’或‘我儿子是我最好的朋友’。

Being a parent and being a friend or being a counselor or being a partner, they're different things. And as the child, you cannot be all of them. That's something that they typically don't understand. It's very common when a parent will be like, oh, yes. My daughter is, like, my best friend or my son is my best friend.

这通常意味着你们之间缺乏情感边界。他们过度分享，越界行为，甚至可能向你抱怨另一位家长。情况会变得非常复杂。

And that's always code for you guys don't have emotional boundaries. Like, they are oversharing. They're overstepping. Perhaps they're even complaining about your other parent. It can get very complex.

他们的边界感也很差。这与此密切相关——他们过度分享，不惜一切代价要求忠诚，对你的独立性感到威胁，这有时会导致你压抑自我、畏缩不前来迎合他们。

They also have poor boundaries. That's kinda goes hand in hand. They overshare. They expect loyalty at all costs. They feel threatened by your independence, which can sometimes mean that you stunt yourself and you hold yourself back to appease them.

本质上，他们是这段关系中最重要的人。在你们两人的关系中，你的感受、需求、愿望，以及他们的情绪波动和表达障碍，都让你退居其次。这看起来可能并不明显带有虐待或忽视性质。很多情况下，拥有情感不成熟父母的人会说：他们确实在物质上陪伴着我，他们很疼爱我。

Essentially, they are the most important person in the relationship. The relationship between you two, you come second to their feelings, their wants, their needs, their volatility, their inability to express themselves. This may not seem overtly abusive or neglectful. And in many situations, people with emotionally immature parents will say, well, they were really physical physically present for me. They were affectionate.

他们会给我买东西。我们会一起做有趣的事。我所有的物质需求都得到了满足。但在情感层面，情况却截然不同。所以我们描述的这类养育方式严格来说不算虐待，尽管我认为这个定义目前确实很有弹性。

They would buy me things. We would do fun things. They were all my needs were taken care of. But emotionally, it was a very different situation. So the kind of parenting that we are describing is not technically abusive, although I think that that definition is definitely very flexible at the moment.

这是一种被称为情感忽视的养育方式。研究充分证实了其影响的严重性。2017年发表在《儿童心理学与精神病学杂志》上的研究发现，童年时期的情感忽视，尤其是微妙或未言明的忽视，与成年后焦虑、抑郁和情绪调节困难的风险增加密切相关。这种不可预测的情感环境会让我们觉得，出于害怕伤害父母或他们反而会责怪我们的恐惧，我们不被允许表达真实感受。因此在几乎所有互动中，我们都会立即进入防御状态，产生自我保护欲，这意味着我们会情感压抑、情感麻木，甚至自欺欺人地否认真实感受，这最终会给我们带来沉重代价。

It's a kind of parenting called emotional neglect. The research really backs up how significant the impact of this can be. A 2017 study published in the Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, it found that emotional neglect in childhood, especially when it's subtle or unspoken, is strongly correlated with an increased risk for anxiety, depression, and difficulties with emotional regulation in adulthood. You know, having this unpredictable emotional environment can make us feel like we're not allowed to express how we feel out of fear that our parents will be hurt or they will somehow turn it around on us. So there is an immediate defenses defensiveness and a desire to protect ourselves in almost all interactions, which means that we emotionally suppress, we emotionally numb, we kind of lie to ourselves about what we're really feeling, and this can really take its toll on us.

情绪绝非装饰品，它们是至关重要的人性组成部分。这是我们与世界互动的方式。如果父母用错误的方式教导我们处理情绪，导致我们与情绪的关系被扭曲，就必然会造成长期后果。

Emotions, they they are essential. They are really, really important things. Like, we don't just have emotions as decoration. They're our way of interacting with the world. And so if our relationship to them has been disrupted by a parent who has taught us how to handle or showed us how to handle emotions in the wrong way, that's going to lead to some long term consequences.

许多治疗情感不成熟父母子女的心理咨询师报告，他们的来访者普遍存在'述情障碍'——即识别和表达情感的困难。这很好理解：当你的情感世界长期被否定或忽视，你就会学会与之割裂。那么这种情感不成熟的根源何在？本质上源于父母自身未愈合的童年创伤。

One thing a lot of therapists or psychologists who handle individuals who have emotionally mature parents, they report a lot of their clients having something called alexithymia, which is a difficulty in identifying and expressing emotions. And this makes sense. You know, when your emotional world is dismissed or ignored, you learn to disconnect from it. So where what are the roots of this emotional immaturity? Really, what it stems from in our parents is unresolved childhood wounds that they themselves are carrying.

老话说'受伤的人会伤害他人'，这不仅是个说法，往往正是生活的可怕真相。如果一个人从未学过调节情绪，在情感被忽视或否定的家庭中长大，他们就难以处理好自己的情绪，最终也难以处理好与子女的情感。这是非常合乎逻辑的。

It is an age old saying, hurt people hurt people. That's not just a saying. It often ends up being a real terrifying fact of life. If someone wasn't taught how to regulate their emotions, if they grew up in a home where feelings were ignored or invalidated, they're going to struggle to do that with themselves and eventually with their own children. And that makes a lot of sense.

对吧？如果你的父母从未掌握这些方法，从未得到过正确示范，他们很难在情感上成熟应对，特别是考虑到我们的社会学习主要依靠观察模仿。关键在于：情感成熟不可能在孤立中形成。我们并非天生就懂得调节情绪。

Right? If you never learned the tools, if it was never properly modeled for them, for your parents, it's so difficult for them to come walk into situations and be emotionally mature, especially considering how much of our social learning is just purely observational. Here's the thing. We don't develop emotional maturity and isolation. It's not like we are born knowing how to regulate our feelings.

我们和父母一样，都是通过一个叫做‘共同调节’的过程来学习的。当我们还是孩子时，父母本应安抚我们、解释我们的感受、告诉我们一切都会好起来，并为我们创造一个理解情绪并非可怕事物的环境。这样我们才能学会自我调节。如果父母自己当年也无人示范这些，那么他们其实也很茫然——除了生命中最重要的人，谁来教他们这些呢？

We, as well as our parents, learn through a process called co regulation. So when we're children, our parents are meant to help soothe us, explain what we're feeling, tell us that it's gonna be okay, give us the environment to understand that emotions are not these big scary things. That's how we learn how to do it ourselves. When your parent perhaps didn't have someone, you know, demonstrating that for them, well, they were kind of at a loss. Who was gonna teach them, if not the most important person in their lives?

上世纪70年代有个非常著名的实验完美诠释了这一点，叫做‘静止脸实验’，由爱德华·特罗尼克博士设计。他真正想探究的是我们如何学会调节情绪。实验中让母亲正常与婴儿互动——微笑、咿呀对话、逗乐玩耍。

And there's a very famous experiment from about the seventies that shows this beautifully. It's called the still face experiment by doctor Edward Tronic. And in the study, he really wanted to find out how we learn to regulate emotions. And so he had a mother and a child, and he would have the mother play normally with her baby. Smile, coo, engage, giggle with them.

然后突然要求母亲面无表情，不再回应孩子。她的脸一僵住，几秒内婴儿就会表现出痛苦，开始试图吸引注意，完全不知如何调节自己的情绪。这个实验在伦理上有些争议，但它生动展现了孩子对父母情感反馈的依赖程度。当这种反馈缺失时——就像你父母当年缺乏共同调节那样——压力会迅速累积。不知不觉中，我们就会内化‘我的感受是危险的’这种认知。

And then the mother was asked to suddenly go expressionless, to not respond to her child. Her face went still, and within seconds, the child would get distressed, would start trying to get her attention, wouldn't know how to regulate what they were feeling. It was a bit of an ethically murky study, but it gives you a clear visual of how much children rely on that emotional feedback from their parents. When it's missing, perhaps how it was missing for your parents when there is no co regulation, that stress can build fast. And without knowing it, we internalize the message of my feelings are dangerous.

‘我的感受太强烈了’、‘我缺乏处理它们的框架和环境，所以应该彻底压抑’。这就是情感不成熟的根源。如今我们这代人更理解为何要认可孩子的情绪，更明白设立边界为何重要。

My feelings are too much. I don't have the framework or the environment to manage them, so I should just completely suppress them. That's where emotional immaturity comes from. And nowadays, we this generation kind of has more of an understanding of why it is important to validate your children's emotions. We understand why things like boundaries are essential.

我们明白压抑情绪会导致数十年来人们忽视心理健康危机。虽然我们这代人对心理问题更开放，但仍要面对上一代人从父母那里学来的‘坐直闭嘴，只许看不许说’观念。本质上，我们是在处理几代人情绪压抑的后果——既要在个人层面应对，又要在与父母互动的微观层面处理。他们是整个情感教育缺失链条的产物。关于父母情感不成熟还有另一种解释，叫做‘发展停滞’。

We understand why, you know, suppressing your feelings has led to decades of, like, people ignoring mental health crises and mental health issues. We're a generation that's a lot more open to it, but we're still managing with this previous generation who learned from their parents, you know, sit up and shut up, be seen and not heard. Essentially, the way I like to think about it is we are managing the fallout of generations of emotional suppression, and we're managing that on an individual level and dealing with it on a micro level of just interacting with our parents. You know, they are the product of a whole long line of inadequate emotional training and availability. There's another explanation for our parents' emotional immaturity, and it's something called developmental arrest.

这听起来很夸张，但其实非常普遍。指的是人的情感成长因童年创伤、压力或忽视而停滞。童年或青春期经历的创伤会实际中断大脑的自然发育——本该负责情绪调节、共情与联结的脑区发展会被搁置。为什么？

That sounds very dramatic, but it's actually really common. It's when someone's emotional growth kind of pauses, usually because of trauma, stress, or neglect in their own childhood. So when we go through trauma, especially during childhood or adolescence, it can actually physically interrupt our brain's natural development. The parts of our brain that are supposed to grow and support emotional regulation and connection and empathy, that development gets sidelined. Why?

因为在那种处境下生存才是首要任务。想象一个经历过战争、目睹家人严重虐待、遭遇重大丧失或贫困处境的父母——当身处危机时，身体会说：‘现在只要专注度过眼前难关’。等危机过后，我们才能继续神经突触修剪、脑区发育这些进程。

It's because survival in those situations is coming first. So imagine you have a parent who has experienced war or who has seen a family member be incredibly abusive or who encountered a really traumatic loss or circumstances or poverty when they were younger, when we are in those moments, our body goes, okay. All we need to focus on is getting through this, is getting through this moment. And when it's over and when it's done, we can continue with some of the other things. We can continue with that neural pruning and that synaptic pruning, and we can continue with the evolving of our brain matter and and these structures.

但在威胁消除之前，我们必须保持专注——这就是发展停滞。你的父母可能真的停留在他们生命中某个创伤发生的时刻，从未走出那个生存状态。所以当你25岁、26岁，甚至三十多岁或更大时，却要面对一个五六十岁的人，而他们的心理和情感年龄可能比你小得多。正因如此，尽管他们年长，却是你拥有的成熟度让你几乎不得不像父母一样对待他们。

But until the threat is passed, we just have to be focused That is developmental arrest. Your parent may quite literally be frozen at the time that a particular trauma took place in their lives. They never exited that survival zone. And so you're 25, you're 26, you may be in even in your thirties or older, dealing with someone who's 50 or 60 who actually might be psychologically and emotionally have have the the emotional age that's significantly younger than you. Hence, why although they have the age, you have the maturity that allows you to almost or forces you almost to have to parent them.

我给出这些解释并非为父母的行为开脱，而是为了说明。我认为他们并非有意伤害你，只是他们自己也从未学会正确的方式。换句话说，这并不总是出于恶意，而往往是代代相传却从未被审视的情感疏离。

Now I give these explanations not as an excuse for our parents' behavior, but more as an explanation. I don't think they want to hurt you. They just never learned how to do it the right way themselves. In in other words, it's not always about malicious intent. It's often about an emotional unavailability that has been passed down for generations that goes unexamined.

这是否意味着伤害会减轻？不。这是否意味着你现在或将来被迫延续这个循环？同样不是。你此刻正在收听本期节目。

Does it mean it hurts less? No. Does it mean that now you are being and will be forced to continue the cycle? Also, no. You are currently listening to this episode.

你认为你的父母会有这种自我意识去搜索这类内容吗？你认为他们会寻求心理帮助、自助内容或指导吗？不会。正是这种有意识的决断——比如'我要打破过去的学习模式，我要中断代际创伤的循环，改变这条道路并为自己创造不同结果'——才如此有力，这意味着你不会变成他们的样子。你正在做本该几十年前就完成的工作，逆转那些根深蒂固的思维模式和情感互动方式，确保它们不会继续传递下去。

Do you think your parents would ever have the self awareness to search something like this? Do you think your parents are engaging in psychological help or looking for self help content or looking for instruction? No. And it's that conscious deliberateness of being like, I'm going to interrupt past learnings, and I'm going to interrupt a pattern of generational trauma to divert this path and change the outcomes for myself that is so powerful and that means that you are not gonna turn out like them. You are doing the work that should have been done decades and decades ago to reverse very deeply ingrained patterns of thinking and patterns of emotionally relating to others that are not going to be passed on from here on out.

我们稍事休息，回来后我想探讨这些可能对你造成的影响，我想告诉你这完全正常。同时也会讨论如何疗愈、如何设立边界、如何接受你无法改变他们的事实，同时鼓励自己在内心做出改变，弥补过去的一些忽视。请继续收听，广告后我们将讨论这些内容。

So we are gonna take a short break, but when we return, I wanna explore what the impact may have been on you so far. I wanna validate that that is totally normal. And, also, how you can heal, how you can set boundaries, how can you accept that you can't change them, but also encourage yourself to change within you and to undo some of this past neglect. Stay with us. All of that and more after this short break.

在《健康那些事》播客中，我们解答所有让你夜不能寐的健康问题。

On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.

是的，我是普里扬卡·沃利医生，拥有双委员会认证的医师资格。

Yes, I'm Doctor. Priyanka Wally, a double board certified physician.

我是哈里·昆达波鲁，一名喜剧演员，也是曾在凌晨三点谷歌搜索‘我是不是得了坏血病’的人。

And I'm Hari Kundabolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, Do I have scurvy at 3AM?

在《健康那些事儿》节目中，我们将以不同方式探讨健康话题。

On Health Stuff, we're talking about health in a different way.

这不仅关乎我们能够

It's not only about what we can

为改善健康所采取的行动。

do to improve our health.

还关乎我们的健康状况如何反映我们的生活方式。

But also what our health says about us and the way we're living.

比如我们探讨糖尿病的那期节目。

Like our episode where we look at diabetes.

在美国，有百分之五十的美国人处于糖尿病前期。

In The United States, I mean, fifty percent of Americans are pre diabetic.

2型糖尿病有多大的可预防性？

How preventable is type two?

极高。或者我们深入分析芒果有多么不可思议。

Extremely. Or our in-depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are.

哦，很难向世界其他地方解释，你喜欢芒果是因为它们很棒，但你自己甚至都不了解。

Oh, it's hard to explain to rest of the world that you like, your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible, but, like, you don't even know.

你不了解。

You don't know.

你不了解。这将是一次

You don't know. It's going to be

有趣的旅程，所以请持续关注。

a fun ride, so tune in.

在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何你获取播客的地方收听健康相关内容。

Listen to health stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

她说，约翰尼，孩子们昨晚没回家。

And she said, Johnny, the kids didn't come home last night.

在德克萨斯中部平原，青少年接连死去——无法解释的自杀、离奇事故和残忍谋杀。这情节简直像是直接从《绝命毒师》里搬出来的。毒品、酒精、人口贩卖。

Along the Central Texas Plains, teens are dying, suicides that don't make sense, strange accidents, and brutal murders. In what seems to be a plot ripped straight out of Breaking Bad. Drugs, alcohol, trafficking of people.

外面肯定有人知道发生了什么。

There are people out that absolutely know what happened.

请在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或任何你获取播客的地方收听《纸鬼：德克萨斯青少年谋杀案》。

Listen to Paper Ghosts, The Texas Teen Murders on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

当你把

What do you get when you

五十年代的好莱坞、一位怀揣梦想的古巴音乐家和史上最经典的情景喜剧之一结合起来，会得到什么？你会得到德西·阿纳兹——一位开拓者、商人、丈夫，或许最重要的是，他是首位打破黄金时段壁垒的拉丁裔。我是威尔默·瓦尔德拉玛，没错，我从小看着他长大，可能就像你和数百万其他人一样。但对我来说，我在他的故事中看到了自己。

mix nineteen fifties Hollywood, a Cuban musician with a dream and one of the most iconic sitcoms of all time? You get Desi Arnaz, a trailblazer, a businessman, a husband, and maybe most importantly, the first Latino to break prime time wide open. I'm Wilmer Valderrama, and yes, I grew up watching him, probably just like you and millions of others. But for me, I saw myself in his story.

方式。

Ways.

在这档由德西·阿内斯和威尔默·瓦尔德拉玛主演的播客中，我将带你走进德西的人生，回顾他与我的交集时刻，讲述他如何重新定义了美国电视行业，以及这对我们这些在边缘守望、期盼荧幕上出现相似面孔的观众意味着什么。这是一个关于先驱者如何为后来者照亮道路、我们如何传承他精神遗产的故事。请收听由德西·阿内兹和威尔默·瓦尔德拉玛主演的节目——

On the podcast starring Desi Arness and Wilmer Valderrama, I'll take you on a journey to Desi's life, the moments he has overlapped with mine, how he redefined American television, and what that meant for all of us watching from the sidelines, waiting for a face like ours on screen. This is the story of how one man spotlight lit the path for so many others and how we carry his legacy today. Listen to starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama as part

作为My Cultura播客网络的一部分，可在

of the My Cultura podcast network available on

iHeart广播应用、苹果播客或任何你获取播客的平台收听。

the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

我们开始吧。

Here we go.

大家好，我是卡尔·潘。在我的新播客《历史重演》中，我们将剖析当下潮流与头条新闻，追问：为什么历史总在循环往复？你可能知道我是《猪头逛大街》系列里第二性感的演员，但我还是作家、白宫幕僚，以及——大概十五秒前刚解锁的新身份——播客主持人。这一路上我结识了许多科学、政治和流行文化领域的专家朋友。每周都会有一位嘉宾与我共同探讨那些让我寝食难安的问题。

Hey. I'm Kel Penn, and on my new podcast, here we go again, we'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? You may know me as the second hottest actor from the Harold and Kumar movies, but I'm also an author, a White House staffer, and as of, like, fifteen seconds ago, a podcast host. Along the way, I've made some friends who are experts in science, politics, and pop culture. And each week, one of them will be joining me to answer my burning questions.

比如：我们是否正走向像08年那样的经济崩溃？非一夫一妻制又流行起来了吗？为什么航班提前两分钟降落时接机口永远没准备好？我们的嘉宾阵容包括皮特·布蒂吉格、斯泰西·艾布拉姆斯、莉莉·辛格和比尔·奈等人。

Like, are we heading towards another financial crash like in o eight? Is non monogamy back in style? And how come there's never a gate ready for your flight when it lands like two minutes early? We've got guests like Pete Buttigieg, Stacey Abrams, Lily Singh, and Bill Nye.

当你开始将外太空武器化时，事态可能会变得非常糟糕。

When you start weaponizing outer space, things can potentially go really wrong.

看，这个世界现在看起来可能相当可怕，因为它确实如此。但我的目标是让你听完后对未来感觉好一点。请在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或你获取播客的任何平台收听并订阅《Here We Go Again with Cal Pen》。

Look. The world can seem pretty scary right now because it is. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here We Go Again with Cal Pen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

我们许多人心中最大的疑问是：这如何体现在我们的生活中？首先，情感不成熟的父母教养方式对我们成年后最显著的影响之一就是通过我们的依恋模式体现。如果你曾因某人没回复消息而陷入情绪漩涡，或当有人靠得太近时就想情感封闭，你并不孤单。这些反应并非凭空产生。大量研究表明，童年时期缺失的情感确认与成年后形成焦虑型或回避型依恋模式密切相关。

The big question that a lot of us have is, how does this show up in our lives? First and foremost, one of the biggest ways that emotionally immature parenting shows up for us in adulthood is through our attachment style. Now if you are someone who has ever found themselves spiraling after someone didn't text you back or you feel the urge to emotionally shut down the moment someone gets too close, you are not alone. These responses don't just come out of nowhere. There's been so much research that has shown that emotional validation that is missing during childhood is strongly linked to developing an anxious or avoidant attachment style in adulthood.

这可能是你首先注意到的现象——尤其当我们开始约会、渴望建立认真的恋爱关系或持久友谊时，你会发现自己的待人方式与朋友或熟人相比存在某种特殊维度，却不明所以。你并不记得自己主动选择这样。通常，这都是你情感教养残留的痕迹。另一种常见体验是：总觉得维系一切是你的责任——要成为情感成熟的人，成为他人的依靠，并因需要掌控情绪、表现得比实际年龄成熟而背负沉重愧疚感。'比实际年龄成熟'。

That's the first thing that you may be noticing, especially as we begin to date and we begin to want to have serious relationships or serious long lasting friendships, you find that your way of relating to other people has a whole other dimension to it compared to your friends or other people that you know, and you can't quite figure out why. You can't remember consciously wanting to be this way. Often, it's the remnants of this emotional upbringing that you had. Then there's this other experience that is somewhat common, and it's feeling as if it's your job to hold everything together, to be the emotionally mature one, to be the one that people come to, and feeling like there is so much guilt to be in control of your emotions and to be mature for your age. Mature for your age.

我极度厌恶这个说法。每当有人说自己'比实际年龄成熟'，我总认为：那其实是创伤反应。的的确确就是创伤反应。有位创伤专家Pete Walker将其称为'讨好反应'。

I absolutely despise this term. Anytime someone says they're very mature for their age, I always think, well, that's a trauma response. It is it it literally is a trauma response. It's called fawning, actually, by this trauma expert. His name is Pete Walker.

他发现人们通常认为我们通过战斗、逃跑或僵直来应对危险，但这并不完整。还有第四种'F反应'即讨好——本质上就是把他人需求置于首位以求安全感。这表现为不断妥协以避免冲突、与威胁者交好、成为他人情感支柱以免自己被孤立。童年时可能体现为保持沉默以免父母生气，或调解争吵；成年后则表现为讨好型人格、回避冲突、自我需求永远排最后、替人找借口、无限给予机会即使自己遍体鳞伤。

And he found that the typical way that people think of us responding to danger through fight, flight, and freeze isn't the entire picture. There's also this fourth f called fawning where you essentially put everyone's needs first because it feels safer that way. And it really involves constantly appeasing others to avoid conflict, making friends with the threat, being the one that people need to rely on emotionally so that you're never the one on the outside. In childhood, this may have looked like staying quiet to avoid upsetting your parents or mediating arguments. In adulthood, it looks like people pleasing, avoiding confrontation, putting everyone else's needs before your own, making excuses for people, giving them a million second chances even when it's costing you.

因为在成长过程中，家庭的情感氛围取决于你安抚父母的能力、避免触发他们怒火的能力、预判他们情绪的能力。但有个悖论：情感不成熟的父母往往培养出极度情感敏锐的孩子。这不是因为他们示范了成熟，而是你不得不如此才能生存。你被迫过早长大，被迫学会自我调节。

Because when you were growing up, the emotional temperature of your household depended on your ability to soothe a parent, your ability to avoid triggering their anger, your ability to anticipate their moods. Here's the paradox, though. Emotionally immature parents often raise incredibly emotionally aware children, And that's not because they modeled that maturity, but because you had to become that way to survive. You know, you had to grow up too fast. You had to learn to self regulate.

你不得不预判他人反应，甚至过度独立。这会形成一种特殊情感状态——过度韧性或过度独立。有趣的是，有些情感不成熟父母的孩子若不自知，最终会变得同样不成熟；另一些人则会成为这种过度独立者。我很想知道这背后的研究依据。

You had to predict other people's reactions to become independent almost to a fault. This creates this very specific emotional condition called hyper resilience or hyper independence. And it's very interesting because some people with emotionally immature parents, if they're not aware of it, just end up becoming emotionally immature themselves. Other people end up becoming this kind of way, very hyperindependent. And I really wanna know what the research is behind it.

我确实找不到太多解释。有人说这是家庭之外其他支持网络的存在，也有人认为这与出生顺序有很大关系。但如果你属于高度独立的那类人，你会发现依赖自己的能力对你而言就像一种资产，它就像一张情感安全网。

I couldn't really find many much of an explanation. Some people say it's the existence of other support networks outside of the family. Some people say it has a lot to do with birth order. But if you are in the second category of people who are hyperindependent, what you will find is that your ability to only rely on yourself feels like an asset to you. It is like an emotional safety net.

你的独立性让你感到无比安心。从很多方面来说，这确实是种优势。能够挑战自我、依靠自己，敢于追求想要的东西，这些都是很棒的特质。但独立的反面是，当你真正需要帮助时，可能会发现难以开口求助。你或许会觉得依靠他人很困难，因为你内心已经认定依赖别人是不安全的。

Your independence feels like your greatest comfort. And in many ways, it is an asset. Being able to challenge yourself, rely on yourself, being able to go out and ask what you want is a great thing. But the flip side of being independent is that you might find it hard to ask for help when you really need it. You may find it hard to lean on people because you've internalized the belief that depending on someone else isn't safe.

你可能用近乎苛刻的高标准要求自己——永远要保持高效，永远要做别人的依靠，希望自己从不给人添麻烦。当我说这句话时我会握着你的手：你可能正试图通过行动来换取爱。那个告诉你'只有有用且不成为负担才值得被爱'的内心声音，往往源自早期的家庭互动模式。这也呼应了后半句话：我渴望情感安全感，如果别人给不了，我就自己创造。许多在情感不成熟的父母环境中长大的人，成年后都会经历这种情况。

You may hold yourself to impossibly high standards, always needing to be productive, always needing to be the one that people rely on, wanting to be super low maintenance. And I'm gonna hold your hand when I say this, like, it might be that you are trying to earn love through your actions. The inner voice that says you're only lovable if you're useful and not too much of a burden, that often comes from these early dynamics. It's also that second part of saying, well, I crave emotional safety, if someone else can't create it for me, I'll create it for myself. Here is the final thing that a lot of people report experiencing as adults if they grew up in an emotionally immature parental environment.

这种现象被称为情感孤独。最近关于依恋创伤的研究频繁讨论这个概念，因为让人感到孤独的不仅是物理上的隔离。即使朋友成群、身边从不缺人，你仍可能感到内心深处的情感不被看见。棘手的是，这种孤独往往不以我们预期的方式呈现——有时它看起来像是过得很好、被众人环绕、总是帮别人解决问题、拥有令人羡慕的社交圈。

It's something called emotional loneliness. This concept is being talked about a lot more in research on attachment trauma recently because it's not just physical isolation that makes people feel lonely. You could have so many friends and be constantly surrounded by people but feel deeply emotionally unseen. And the tricky part is that this kind of loneliness doesn't look how we would typically expect it to look. Sometimes it looks like being fine, being the one who is surrounded by people, being the fixer, having the amazing friendship group.

但夜深人静时回到家，你会强烈渴望被关怀，却又无法向他人敞开心扉。直到有人真正看见你的那一刻，你可能才意识到自己长期处于情感孤独中，而这种认知可能让人极度不适。心理学家林赛·吉布森（我们之前提过她的研究）将情感孤独定义为情感不成熟父母的成年子女的典型创伤——这不是身边缺人，而是缺被理解的感觉。

But at the end of the day, you kind of come home and you have this deep craving to be cared for as well, but also an inability to open the door to other people. You might not even realize until someone really sees you for the first time how emotionally lonely you have been, and it can be very seriously uncomfortable or foreign. So that psychologist, Lindsay Gibson, whose work we mentioned earlier, she talks about emotional loneliness as a defining wound for adult children of emotionally immature parents. It is not the absence of people. It is the absence of being known.

你完全能想象这在二十多岁时会带来多大冲击。这个阶段我们首次在没有家人陪伴的情况下经营成人关系，旧有的互动模式便开始重演。恋爱关系可能复现你与父母相处时的不稳定感，你可能会选择情感上无法投入的伴侣。

And you can totally see how this might hit hard in your twenties. This is the time when we're really navigating adult relationships, often for the first time without our families right beside us. And so the old dynamics start to play out again. Romantic relationships may end up mirroring the inconsistency you experienced with a parent. You might choose emotionally unavailable partners.

你可能会发现自己也在情感上保持疏离。你会推开别人，莫名其妙挑起无谓的争执。究其根本，是因为你始终不明白'被看见'意味着什么。所以当有人试图真正了解你时，你会感到强烈威胁——毕竟你的父母曾用行动告诉你：你不该被看见。

You might find that you yourself are emotionally unavailable. You push people away. You start unnecessary fights without even knowing why. And the why is that all along, you really don't understand what it means to be seen. And so being seen by someone feels very threatening because you had these parents who were like, you don't wanna be seen.

这对我们来说很棒。让我们被看见。我们将占据所有空间。我们将吸走房间里所有的氧气。你可以就坐在角落里，不要大惊小怪，也不要发出声音，而我们却对你恶语相向，把问题抛给你，让你如履薄冰。

That's great for us. Let us be seen. We'll take up all the space. We'll take up all the oxygen in the room. You can just sit in the corner and not make a fuss and not make a sound while we throw insults at you or we throw problems at you or we are making you walk on eggshells.

所以当你成年后，你会想，人们真的期待我谈论自己的感受吗？人们真的想了解关于我的事情吗？这可能会让人感到非常不安。精神分析学家埃里克·埃里克森确实描述过这个人生的阶段。它被称为亲密与孤立，我们每个人都会经历。

And so when you become an adult and you're like, people actually expect me to talk about my feelings? People actually wanna know things about me? It can feel very unnerving. The psychoanalyst Eric Erickson, he actually describes this phase of life. It's called intimacy versus isolation, and every single one of us does go through it.

但那些拥有情感不成熟的父母或早期关系的人会发现，这要困难得多，因为他们对爱、亲密和信任的蓝图是由不理解这些东西的人塑造的。所以，是的，每个人都会为此挣扎，关系很难。但就像你步入亲密关系，感觉准备好了。然后你意识到你正在不平的地基上盖房子。明白吗？

But people who had emotionally immature parents or early relationships will find that it's so much more difficult because their blueprint for love and for closeness and for trust was shaped by someone who didn't understand any of those things. So, yes, everyone's gonna struggle with this, and relationships are hard. But it's like you're stepping into intimacy, and you feel ready for it. And then you realize that you are trying to build a house on uneven foundations. You know?

其他人都在盖房子，这是一条完美的生产线。而你却在想，等等。我不知道木头已经腐烂了，也不知道结构摇摇欲坠。我需要做所有这些额外的工作，而其他人却轻松自在。老实说，这真的让人感到非常沮丧，因为你渴望亲密，但同时你又害怕它，或者在它有机会拒绝你之前就拒绝了它。

Everyone else is putting up their house, and it's a flawless production line. And you're like, wait. I didn't know that the wood was rotten, and I didn't know that the structure was shaky. And I need to go and do all this extra work while everyone else is having an easy time. And it can feel really freaking frustrating, honestly, because you crave closeness, but you simultaneously fear it or reject it before it has a chance to reject you.

通常在这个阶段，我们开始意识到，嘿，也许我早期的环境并不理想。真正的问题和痛苦来自于我们自己试图填补空白。我们试图找到理由来解释父母的行为，或者说一些话来淡化我们有时感到的困难，比如，哦，他们尽力了，或者没那么糟，或者我过得还不错，或者别人情况更糟。也许这些都是真的，但如果你还在加班加点地解释你的痛苦，这是否意味着你真的没事？

It is often at this stage that we kinda start to realize, like, hey. Perhaps my early environment wasn't what it should have been. And the issue really becomes and the pain comes from trying to fill in the gaps ourselves. And we try and find reasons to explain our parents' behavior or to dampen how difficult we found it at times by saying things like, oh, they did their best, or it wasn't that bad, or I turned out fine, or, oh, people have it way, way worse. And maybe all that is true, but if you're still working overtime to explain away your pain, does that mean that you are really okay?

如果你还在以别人没有的方式默默挣扎，我认为是时候开始承认了，嘿，也许我并不好。也许这种过度独立、过度坚韧、情感封闭的状态不再保护我了。当我们说，哦，他们尽力了，没那么糟，不管是什么，这其实只是我们试图让我们的经历有意义，并给自己一个解释。

If you are still struggling in very unseen ways in ways that other people are not struggling, I think it's really time to start to acknowledge, like, hey. Maybe I'm not alright. Maybe being this hyperindependent, hyper resilient, emotionally closed off person isn't protecting me anymore. When we say things like, oh, you know, they just did their best. It wasn't that bad, whatever it is, this is really just us trying to make our experiences make sense and to give ourselves an explanation for why.

你知道，作为人类，我们想要确定性。我们想要答案。所以我们陷入了这种幻想思维。我们 clinging to the idea of the parent that we wish we had rather than the one that we actually do， all because we are like， well， if they didn't treat me right， if they couldn't be the parent I needed， was that maybe my fault？ And I think this really also closely links to this idea of the good enough childhood.

You know, as humans, we want certainty. We want answers. And so we engage in this kind of fantasy thinking. We cling to the idea of the parent that we wish we had rather than the one that we actually do, all because we are like, well, if they didn't treat me right, if they couldn't be the parent I needed, was that maybe my fault? And I think this really also closely links to this idea of the good enough childhood.

对吧？其实也没那么糟。他们并非虐待或完全缺席。我们每隔几年还会去度假。但即使基本需求得到满足，情感忽视仍会造成深刻伤害。

Right? You know, it wasn't all that bad. They weren't necessarily abusive or absent. We went on holidays every few years. But emotional neglect can be deeply wounding even if your basic needs were met.

你要记住，孩子需要的不仅是食物和水。他们需要认可、安全感、爱和共情。

You have to remember, children don't just need food and water. They need validation. They need safety. They need love. They need empathy.

你需要这些。你值得拥有这些。为未曾得到的父母而哀悼，这很重要，也很痛苦。哀伤不仅关乎死亡。

You needed that. You deserve that. And grieving the parent you didn't get, that's huge. That's painful. Grief is not just about death.

它关乎任何形式的失去。当你真正接受父母无法满足你需求的事实时，那种失落感是真实的。你哀悼从未被允许的独立，渴望却得不到的关注，以及缺失的稳定性。

It's about any kind of loss. And there is a real sense of loss when you do come to terms with the fact that your, you know, your parent couldn't be what you needed. You grieve the independence that was never allowed. You grieve the attention that you wanted so badly. You grieve the consistency.

更复杂的是你无法重来。童年无法重演。有时你会意识到：我改变不了这些人。总想着如果能让他们明白自己的过错并改变，我的伤痛就能愈合。

And then it's compounded by the fact that you can't there's no there's not a do over. You can't redo your childhood. And sometimes you realize, well, I can't change these people. I keep thinking that if I could just make them see what they did and why that was wrong and why they need to change, I'll I'll feel better. And all these wounds will be undone.

最终你会明白这只是替代方案。他们现在改变固然好，但无法弥补过去。或许我太执着于按自己的方式修复这段关系，却忽略了这段关系本身可能毫无建设性。我常对朋友说：某人尽了全力，不意味着你不配得到更好。

And you realize eventually, like, that's just a proxy. Them changing now, yes, it would be great, but it wouldn't solve what happened before. And perhaps I'm too fixated on getting this relationship to work how I want it to that I don't realize that maybe this relationship isn't actually that productive at all. I always say this to my friends. Just because someone did their best doesn't mean you didn't deserve better.

你应得待遇的标准不由他人能力决定。这引出了下一个关键问题：如何抽离？如何在认知到（a）无法改变过去（b）可能永远无法改变这些人（c）永远得不到理想关系的情况下，为自己寻得平静？我们真正要专注的是保持距离的爱——让父母存在于生活边缘而非中心。

The standard for which you deserve to be treated is not determined by someone else's ability to meet the standard. And this really brings us to our next big question. How do we detach? How do we find some kind of peace for ourselves knowing, a, we can't undo the past, b, these are people we may never be able to change, we may never have the relationship with them that we wanted. So what we're really focusing on is detachment, is loving your parents from a distance without necessarily letting them be at the center of your lives, as they would probably like to be.

当你达到一定年龄时，确实有机会说：嘿，这不再是你的职责了。我要在这里主张独立。他们可能会反抗，但你已经成年了。你完全有能力重新定义并按照自己的方式重建这段关系。

Once you get to a certain age, you do have the opportunity to say, hey. That's not your job anymore. I'm gonna assert independence here. They may try and fight back, but you are an adult. You have the skills and the capabilities to redetermine it and reestablish this relationship on your own terms, basically.

是的，可能在最初的十八年、二十五年或无论多少年里都是这样。但这并不意味着我现在不能将这段关系转向其他方向。因此，为了首先从这段混乱关系中抽离，为了让自己摆脱他们营造的情感环境——如果你有条件，首要任务是设法在你和父母之间制造物理距离，无论是搬出去住、去旅行，还是找到一份远离家乡或他们所在地的工作机会。

And say, yes. It may have been this for the first eighteen, twenty five, whatever, how many years. That doesn't mean that I can't now divert this relationship into something else. So in order to detach, firstly, from the chaos of this relationship and in order to take yourself out of the emotional environment they have created. Firstly, if you have the means, find a way to put some physical space between you and your parents, either by moving out of home, going traveling, finding a work opportunity that is away from your hometown or from where they're from.

有时对这类关系最好的良药就是空间，能让你脱离他们控制轨道的空间。当你不必在他们的屋檐下遵守他们的规则时，你会感到前所未有的轻松。你会注意到紧张感自然消散，也会意识到环境如何塑造你的情绪——不仅影响你与他们的相处，更影响你应对日常生活的能力。所以如果你想抽离，想找到自我疗愈的方法，我强烈建议逐步制定脱离计划：离开那个环境，搬出原生家庭。在告知他们之前，先确保计划周全。

Sometimes the best things for these kinds of relationships is just space, space to allow you to exit their orbit of control. When you're not in their home playing by their rules, you will notice how much lighter you feel. You will notice how much tension naturally dissipates, and also how your environment really does shape your mood, and it shapes your ability to cope, not just with them, but with everyday life. So if you wanna detach and if you wanna find a way to heal the consequences of this for yourself, I would highly recommend slowly making a plan to exit exit the environment, exit your family home, stop living under their roof. Have your plan in order before telling them.

这样能有效减少情感操纵的影响。你要准备好坚定表态：我要搬出去了，这就是我们今后的相处模式。如果行不通，仍有其他方法——在家庭之外建立可信赖的社交圈，找到能倾诉苦闷、认同你处境的人，这同样无比珍贵。

That way you can kind of reduce the influence of any emotional manipulation. You need to be ready to be like, I'm moving out. I'm out of here, and this is how we're gonna continue communicating from here on out. If that's not an option, there are still so many things that you can do. Building community outside of your family unit who you can trust and who you can complain to and who will validate how shit this is sometimes is also invaluable.

如果你自己都难以接受他们的行为，第一步就是大声说出来并明确指认：我的父母情感上不成熟。成熟的人不会这样做。我不该承受这些。这不是父母应有的行为。

And if you're struggling to come to terms with their behavior yourself, the first step is really just to say it out loud and to just name it. My parents were emotionally mature. A mature person wouldn't have done this. I don't deserve that. That's not how a parent should behave.

我不想要这样的关系。语言具有强大的解放力量，知道吗？它能让你停止为承受的一切自责，不再通过过度付出或压抑自我来勉强维系关系。

I don't want this kind of relationship. Language is very, very liberating. You know? It really does allow you to stop blaming yourself for the things that you received. It helps you to stop trying to fix the relationship by overfunctioning or shrinking yourself down.

这其实不是要指责谁，而是为了清醒认知。就是要说清楚：这些事发生了，这样影响了我。也许我永远得不到解释。

And it's actually not about pointing fingers. It's it's really about clarity. It's about saying, this is what happened. This is how it shaped me. Maybe I'll never get an explanation as to why.

也许他们永远不会承认。但这不会改变我的现实。接下来，我们要在不涉及内疚的情况下设定一些界限。界限——我需要大声明确地说——不是支配，不是强迫。它们是自尊的标志和形式。

Maybe they will never admit it. That does not change my reality. Next, we're gonna be setting some boundaries without the guilt involved. Boundaries, and I need to say this loud and clear, are not dominating, are not forceful. They are a sign and a form of self respect.

这并不意味着你减少了对父母的爱。而是意味着你足够爱自己，愿意保护自己的情感健康。那么在这些关系中，哪些界限真正必不可少？比如限制通话时长，当对话变得有害时转换话题，明确表示如果你继续这样和我说话，我就不会回家过节，也不会再去你家。

They do not mean you love your parent any less. They mean you love yourself enough to protect your emotional well-being. So what kind of boundaries are really essential in these relationships? Things like limiting phone calls, changing the subject when conversations turn toxic, saying if you wanna continue to talk to me like this, I won't be coming home for the holidays. I won't be coming around to your house.

设定明确的禁忌话题。我不想讨论政治，不想讨论我妹妹在做什么，也不想讨论你和妈妈的关系。这些界限至关重要。

Having off limit subject matter that you tell them is off limits. I don't wanna talk about politics. I don't wanna talk about whatever my sister is doing. I don't wanna talk about your relationship with mom. That is essential.

我真心希望你能坐下来思考：哪些话题总是引发我和父母之间的糟糕对话或争执？我们就是要避开这些雷区。因为你可能已经尝试过足够多次让他们倾听或理解你，但你知道他们不会改变主意。现在重要的是你的内心平静。

I really want you to sit down and say, okay. What are the things that always end up triggering terrible conversations and arguments or moments between me and my parents? I just we're just gonna avoid those. We're gonna avoid them because you've probably tried enough times to make them listen or to make yourself heard that you know they're not changing their mind. It's now about your peace.

其他重要的界限措施包括：保持对话简短，不与他们分享个人故事或细节，识别他们即将爆发、开始操控或贬低你的征兆。了解这些触发点后，你可以选择退出对话。抱歉，我不会容忍这种情况，我要离开。

Some other things that are essential boundaries or things that you can put in place is staying brief in your conversations with them, not sharing personal stories or details with them, knowing the signs that they are going to explode or going to start manipulating you or going to dismiss you, knowing those triggers for them and being like, I'm actually gonna opt out of this. Yeah. Sorry. Like, this is not I'm not tolerating it. I'm walking away.

是的，你会感到沮丧。是的，你可能会生气。但这他妈的根本不关我的事。

Yes. You are gonna get frustrated. Yes. You are probably gonna get mad. That's actually not my fucking deal.

这不是我的问题，也不是我该管的。你是个成年人，可以选择如何调节自己的情绪，但你不能和一个愤怒且不自知的人共同调节情绪。此刻你需要做些什么来更好地照顾自己？

That's not my problem. That's not my business. You're an adult. You choose how to emotionally regulate yourself, but you cannot co regulate with someone who is angry and someone who doesn't know what they're doing. What do you need at this point to do better for yourself?

此刻你需要什么才能感觉好些、不那么紧张和压力小些？记住，你无需为父母的情绪负责。事实上，他们才是成年人。责任层级上，他们处于顶端。本应是他们为你营造一个温柔、温暖且充满接纳的情感环境。

What do you need at this point to feel better and less less tense and less stressed? Remember, like, you are not responsible for your parents' feelings. In fact, they are the adult. The like, the level of responsibility, they're at the top. They are the ones who are meant to be creating a soft and a warm and a welcoming emotional environment for you.

所以如果局面反转，规则手册现在倒过来了。你可以选择离开。你可以说，我不想参与其中。你有权指出，你的行为非常幼稚。他们可能不会承认，但你有权大声说出来：这就是我对当前状况的看法。

So if the tables have turned, the rule book is now upside down. You can walk out. You can say, I don't wanna be part of this. You are allowed to say, you're behaving very immaturely. They're probably not gonna acknowledge it, but you're allowed to say it out loud and be like, this is how I see these situations.

这就是我眼中正在发生的事。我要确认自己经历的现实，然后转身离开。设定界限最困难的部分，其实是接受有些人永远无法理解这些界限。他们永远不会认同，也永远不会喜欢。

This is how I see this happening. I'm gonna validate the reality that I'm experiencing, and I'm gonna walk away. The hardest thing about boundaries is really just accepting that some people are never gonna understand them. They're never going to agree. They're never going to like it.

这并不代表他们错了。恰恰说明这些界限可能是必要的且正在起作用。判断界限是否有效的最简单方法，就是当你设立界限时，有人像疯狗般冲撞它，喊着'你在干什么？我是你父母，不该受到这种对待'。

That doesn't make them wrong. It actually means they were probably necessary and that they are probably working. The easiest way to tell if a boundary is working, the easiest way to tell that one was needed is when you put up the boundary and someone is like a rabid dog bounding against it being like, what are you doing? I'm your parent. I don't deserve to be treated like this.

他们会说'你真忘恩负义'。而正常人的反应应该是：首先，我本不需要设立这个界限；其次，就算设立了也会得到尊重。他们对自身行为的情感后果及你的反应如此不安，恰恰证明他们不正常，也证明你的反应和决定是正确的。这是我常用来帮助人们理解这个道理的说法。

You're so ungrateful. And it's like, So a normal person, firstly, I wouldn't have even needed to set this boundary. Secondly, they would have respected it if I did. The fact that they are so disturbed by the emotional consequences of their actions and your response to them proves that they're not normal and proves that you had the right reaction and you made the right decision. This is something I always say to people to help them understand this better.

如果有个老板像你父母那样对待你，你早就辞职了吧？如果伴侣这样对你，现在应该已经分手了。如果朋友对你冷暴力、无视情感需求、只在需要时才理你、贬低你、不让表达感受，你还会做朋友吗？还会联系吗？不会。

If you had a boss who treated you the way that your parents did, would you have quit by now? If you had a partner who treated you the way your parents do, you probably would have broken up with them at this point. If you had a friend who gave you the silent treatment, who didn't listen to your emotional requests, who ignored you unless they needed something, who dismissed you, who wouldn't let you share your feelings, would you be friends with them? Would you have contact with them? No.

那为什么我们要为本应更懂事的父母找这么多借口？我常想：是他们决定生下你。选择生育就意味着主动承担他们显然难以履行的责任，却要求你履行传统观念中子女的全部义务？这是双向的。因此我们要用第三种方式实现情感剥离：自我重塑。随着年龄增长，我们终将成为自己生命中最重要的成年人。

So why do we make so many excuses for our parents when they should know better when you know, I always think this, like, they decided to have you. And deciding to have a child, like, they were opting into a responsibility that they are obviously struggling to fulfill, but they expect you to fulfill all the traditional ways that a child should behave? Like, it's a two way street. So the third way we're gonna really attempt to detach here is by reparenting ourselves. You know, as we get older, we become the most important adult in our lives.

即便你拥有伴侣，即便你交到了非常棒的朋友，你依然是那个最重要的成年人。你仍然要对自己99%的决定负责。因此你也有能力主动掌控当下，为自己做出最优选择——就像父母在你幼时本该做的那样，就像他们现在依然应该为你做的那样。你内心那个因他们的行为而受伤的、童真未泯的部分依然存在，即便那是过去的事，这份纯真依然值得被爱。自我重塑能帮助我们修复与过去那个自己的关系，让我们意识到：

Even if you have a partner, even if you have a really amazing friend, you are still the most important adult. You are still responsible for, I would say, 99% of your decisions. And so you also have the capacity to take charge and to do what's best for yourself now, the way that a parent should have done for you when you were younger, the way that they should even be doing it for you now. The part of you, the childlike innocent part of you who was injured by their behavior still exists, and they still deserve love even if it was in the past. Reparenting helps us heal that relationship with this past version of us, and it helps us realize, like, hey.

情况不会永远如此。我们还有别的选择。我值得被这样对待，而我要首先从自我效仿开始。这听起来可能起初有些吓人，但自我重塑其实就是给予成年后的自己那份童年时应得的宽容与安全感。所以在自我怀疑时鼓励自己（哪怕感觉别扭），在感到羞耻时拥抱自己，允许自己顽皮，允许自己尴尬，允许自己脆弱。

It's not always gonna be like this. There is an alternative. There is a way that I deserve to be treated, and I'm gonna firstly begin by emulating it myself. Now this might sound kind of intimidating at first, but reparenting really just means giving your adult self the grace and the security that your childhood self deserved. So encouraging yourself when doubt creeps in, even when it feels unnatural, holding yourself when you feel shame, allowing yourself to be playful, allowing yourself to be cringe, allowing yourself to be vulnerable.

也可以简单从改变自我对话开始。我们常常对自己恶语相向，比如骂自己'我真蠢'、'我是个糟糕的人'、'我是个白痴'。

It could also be as simple as changing, like, your self talk. So often, I just feel like we talk to ourselves so badly. We say, like, I'm so stupid. I'm a terrible person. I'm an idiot.

这些贬损之词大多并非我们自发学会的，而是别人曾对我们说过的。我们要用新话语替代它们：'我犯了个错，这没关系'、'我是个在成长的人'、'我是个在学习的人'。

A lot of those words, we didn't learn those ourselves. They were words that were said to us. And so replacing them and saying, I made a mistake, and that's okay. I'm someone who was growing. I'm someone who was learning.

这至关重要，因为这是在重构我们的内心对话，让内在批判者的声音变得更温柔、更善解人意。试想如果你能回到5岁、10岁、12岁或15岁时，你希望父母如何回应你的情感需求？你希望他们怎样对待你？你希望他们如何爱你？现在就去效仿那样的方式。

That's essential because it's re reprogramming our internal dialogue and the voice of our inner critic so that it is more gentle and understanding. You know, if you could go back to when you were, let's say, five or 12 or 10 or 15, how would you wish your parents had responded to your emotional requests? How do you wish they had treated you? How do you wish they had loved you? Emulate that.

想象那种场景，然后把这份关爱返还给自己。自我重塑还意味着关注你此刻的需求，而非他人对你的索求。如果你的父母情感不成熟，你可能早已习惯优先考虑他们的需求——这种模式往往会延续到其他关系中。但那不是你的职责。

Imagine it. Deliver it back to yourself. Reparenting is also about noticing what you need right now over what others may need from you. If you have emotionally immature parents, you are most likely used to being very focused on their needs, and that often ends up translating into other relationships as well. That's not your job.

你现在的职责是问自己：'这个处境中我需要什么？' '我人生现阶段需要什么？' '我日常需要什么？' '这段关系里我需要什么？' 然后主动去追寻，并亲自满足这些需求。

Your job right now is to say, what do I need in this situation? What do I need at this point in my life? What do I need during my day? What do I need in a relationship? And going out, going after it, and delivering it to yourself.

那些父母从未为你做过的决定，现在你都可以自己做主了。你可以决定，嘿，我要这样表达情感。嘿，我要在下午两点小睡一会儿。

The decisions that your parents never made for you, you can now make them. You can now decide, hey. I'm gonna emotionally respond this way. Hey. I'm gonna have a nap at 2PM.

嘿，我知道这段关系可能不适合我，我要选择离开，因为我有自主权。我认为情感不成熟的父母的孩子常常纠结于这一点——实际上，你才是主宰，你掌控着自己的生活、身体、情感、感受和现实，你可以随心所欲。从现在起，你可以做出所有选择。无论他们如何反对，无论他们想说什么，都无法改变事实。

Hey. I know that this relationship probably isn't right for me, and I'm gonna walk away because I have agency. And that's something that I think the children of emotionally immature parents often struggle with is this sense that, like, actually, you are the boss, and you are in charge, and it's your life, and it's your body, and it's your emotions, and your feelings, and your reality, you can do what you want with that. You can make all of your choices from here on out. And no matter how much of a fuss they kick up, whatever it is that they wanna say, it doesn't change anything.

他们无法控制你。你有权重新定义爱的感受，并告诉自己：我其实值得更好的/我不该承受这些。好吧，我有点激动了...可以说我情绪上来了。所以我们稍作休息。

They don't control you. You are allowed to rewire what love feels like and say, I actually deserve more or I don't deserve this. Okay. I'm getting very you can say, I'm getting very passionate. So we're gonna take a short break.

但回来后，我们将讨论听众的问题。大家提出了许多关于生活中情感不成熟父母的问题——无论是关于自己的、伴侣的，还是各种情境下的。有太多疑问和困境涌现，我很期待解答其中一些。请继续关注。

But when we return, we're gonna talk through some of our listener questions. You guys had so many questions for me about emotionally immature parents in your own lives, in your partners' lives, in so many different ways. There were so many questions and dilemmas that came up, so I'm excited to answer some of them. Stay tuned.

在《健康那些事儿》播客中，我们解答所有让你夜不能寐的健康问题。

On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.

是的，我是普里扬卡·沃利医生，拥有双委员会认证的医师。

Yes, I'm Doctor. Priyanka Wally, a double board certified physician.

我是哈里·昆达博鲁，喜剧演员，也是那个凌晨三点搜索‘我是不是得了坏血病’的人。

And I'm Hari Kundabolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, Do I have scurvy at 3AM?

在《健康那些事》节目中，我们以不同方式探讨健康话题。

On Health Stuff, we're talking about health in a different way.

这不仅关乎我们能够

It's not only about what we can

为改善健康所采取的措施。

do to improve our health.

还关乎我们的健康状况如何反映我们的生活方式。

But also what our health says about us and the way we're living.

比如我们讨论糖尿病的那期节目。

Like our episode where we look at diabetes.

在美国，我是说，50%的美国人都处于糖尿病前期。

In The United States, I mean, fifty percent of Americans are pre diabetic.

二型糖尿病有多少是可预防的？

How preventable is type two?

非常。或者我们对芒果有多么不可思议的深入分析。

Extremely. Or our in-depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are.

哦，很难向世界其他地方解释，比如你们的芒果还不错因为芒果本身就很棒，但你们根本不懂。

Oh, it's hard to explain to rest of the world that you like, your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible, but, like, you don't even know.

你们不懂。

You don't know.

你们不懂。

You don't know.

这将是一个

It's going to be

有趣的旅程，所以敬请收听。

a fun ride, so tune in.

在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何你获取播客的地方收听健康相关内容。

Listen to health stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

她说：'强尼，孩子们昨晚没回家。'

And she said, Johnny, the kids didn't come home last night.

在德克萨斯州中部平原，青少年接连死亡——无法解释的自杀、离奇事故和残忍凶杀。这情节简直像是直接从《绝命毒师》里搬出来的。毒品、酒精、人口贩卖。

Along the Central Texas Plains, teens are dying, suicides that don't make sense, strange accidents, and brutal murders. In what seems to be a plot ripped straight out of Breaking Bad. Drugs, alcohol, trafficking of people.

绝对有人知道发生了什么。

There are people out there that absolutely know what happened.

请在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或任何你收听播客的平台收听《纸鬼：德克萨斯青少年谋杀案》。

Listen to Paper Ghosts, The Texas Teen Murders on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

当你将

What do you get when

1950年代的好莱坞、一位怀揣梦想的古巴音乐家和史上最具标志性的情景喜剧之一融合在一起，你会得到什么？你会得到德西·阿纳兹——一位开拓者、商人、丈夫，或许最重要的是，首位打破黄金时段壁垒的拉丁裔。我是威尔默·瓦尔德拉玛，没错，我从小就看着他，可能就像你和数百万其他人一样。但对我来说，我在他的故事中看到了自己。

you mix nineteen fifties Hollywood, a Cuban musician with a dream and one of the most iconic sitcoms of all time? You get Desi Arnaz, a trailblazer, a businessman, a husband, and maybe most importantly, the first Latino to break prime time wide open. I'm Wilmer Valderrama, and yes, I grew up watching him, probably just like you and millions of others. But for me, I saw myself in his story.

从给金丝雀笼子镀金到纽约的这个夜晚，这是一段漫长的旅程。

From plating canary cages to this night here in New York, it's a long ways.

在由德西·阿奈兹和威尔默·瓦尔德拉玛主演的播客中，我将带您走进德西的人生历程，讲述我们生命轨迹的交汇时刻，他如何重新定义了美国电视业，以及这对我们这些在荧幕外期待看到相似面孔的观众意味着什么。这是一个关于一个人的聚光灯如何为无数后来者照亮道路的故事，以及我们今日如何传承他的遗产。请收听由德西·阿奈兹和威尔默·瓦尔德拉玛主演的节目，作为

On the podcast starring Desi Arness and Wilmer Valderrama, I'll take you on a journey to Desi's life, the moments he has overlapped with mine, how he redefined American television, and what that meant for all of us watching from the sidelines, waiting for a face like ours on screen. This is the story of how one man's spotlight lit the path for so many others and how we carry his legacy today. Listen to starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama as part of

My Cultura播客网络的一部分，您可以在

the My Cultura podcast network available on

iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何您获取播客的平台收听。现在开始吧。

the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Here we go.

大家好，我是卡尔·潘。在我的新播客《历史重演》中，我们将聚焦当下潮流与头条新闻，追问：为何历史总在循环往复？您可能知道我是《猪头汉堡包》电影里第二性感的演员，但我同时也是作家、白宫幕僚，以及——大概十五秒前刚解锁的新身份——播客主持人。这一路上我结识了许多科学、政治和流行文化领域的专家朋友。每周都会有一位嘉宾与我共同探讨那些灼热的问题。

Hey. I'm Kel Penn, and on my new podcast, here we go again, we'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? You may know me as the second hottest actor from the Harold and Kumar movies, but I'm also an author, a White House staffer, and as of, like, fifteen seconds ago, a podcast host. Along the way, I've made some friends who are experts in science, politics, and pop culture. And each week, one of them will be joining me to answer my burning questions.

比如：我们是否正走向2008年式的经济崩溃？非一夫一妻制又流行起来了吗？为什么航班提前两分钟降落时接机口永远没准备好？我们的嘉宾阵容包括皮特·布蒂吉格、斯泰西·艾布拉姆斯、莉莉·辛格和比尔·奈等大咖。

Like, are we heading towards another financial crash like in o '8? Is non monogamy back in style? How come there's never a gate ready for your flight when it lands like two minutes early? We've got guests like Pete Buttigieg, Stacey Abrams, Lily Singh, and Bill Nye.

当人类开始将外太空武器化时，事态可能会变得非常糟糕。

When you start weaponizing outer space, things can potentially go really wrong.

听着，当今世界看起来确实危机四伏——因为它本就是如此。但我希望通过这档节目，能让您在收听时对未来稍感宽慰。欢迎在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何播客平台订阅收听卡尔·潘主持的《历史重演》。

Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now because it is. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here We Go Again with Cal Pen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

大家都知道，每周我都会在Instagram的心理播客上预告本周节目内容（欢迎关注），并询问大家是否有特别想解答的问题。像本期这样话题过于宽泛时，由于每个人的经历差异巨大，我可能无法完全覆盖你们想了解的内容——就算做六小时节目也未必能触及你们各自的具体处境。所以听众提问环节正是让我探讨某些细节的好机会。现在来看第一个问题。

So you guys all know that each week, I go on Instagram at that psychology podcast if you wanna follow, and I tell you guys what I'm gonna be talking about on this week's episode, and I ask if you have any specific questions you want answered. For some episodes like this one, the topic is so broad, and our experience is, like, they are so different that I might not fully cover what you wanna know. Like, I could do a six hour episode on this and still not touch on your unique specific circumstance. And so the listener questions are kind of the opportunity for me to touch on some of the more finer points. Let's start with question number one.

当父母把你卷入他们的争吵时该怎么办？这是目前收到最多的问题，特别是那些父母在子女成年后离婚，或是常年目睹这种情况后突然醒悟'我还是孩子，这本来就不该是我的问题'的人。这就是典型的亲子角色颠倒案例。

What do you do when your parents put you in the middle of their fights? This was by far the most common question, especially for people whose parents are getting divorced as they become adults or who have seen this happen for years and years and years and are suddenly realizing like, hey. I'm the kid here. This actually shouldn't be my problem. This is a classic example of parentification.

你被迫成为了调解员、情绪调节器和外交官——本应是孩子的你却在扮演父母的角色。我要明确说：父母这种行为非常不妥。你不该被卷入其中，因为你与父母各自的关系性质和他们彼此的关系性质截然不同。

You have been put in the position of mediator, emotional regulator, diplomat. You are parenting your parents when your role is meant to be as their child. Let me say this. This is not okay behavior from your parents. You are not meant to be in the middle because you have a very different relationship with them compared to the relationship that they have with each other.

而且你既不是婚姻顾问，也不是他们的闺蜜，更不该成为他们发泄情绪的对象。你是他们的孩子。人与人之间本就应该保持不同的关系边界，这正是健康关系的意义所在。

And, also, you are not a couple's counselor. You are not their best friend. You are not the person they can rant to. You are their child. There are different relationships, and we have different relationships with different people for a reason.

这种情况的发生通常有几种原因：A.他们在私人生活中找不到倾诉对象（这时他们需要寻求专业咨询）；B.他们误以为你作为局内人能保持客观（大错特错）；C.有时只是偶然失言；D.你的立场成了他们的战场——因为你是两人共同的血脉，谁能争取到你的认同，谁就获得了让对方屈服的筹码。

Sometimes, though, the reason this happens is because, a, they have no one else to talk about it to in their personal life, in which case they need to go and see a therapist. B, they feel like because you are so close to the situation, you can somehow be impartial, also incorrect. C, sometimes it's just an accidental slip up. Or d, your opinion is actually becoming the battleground for them because you are the product of both of these two people. So they may feel like, if I can win you over, if you agree with me, well, then this other person has to listen.

你成了他们手中最有力的武器——这个由双方共同抚育的孩子所持的立场。只要让你站队，他们就赢了。这种做法极其不当，也让人极度不适。

You are the best weapon they could have in their arsenal, the opinion of the child that the person and them both raise together. So they win. If they get you to agree with them, they win. It's very inappropriate. It's also very uncomfortable.

我教你们一个应对句式：'听起来你们真的很不容易，但我无法保持中立——虽然我很希望可以。我深爱妈妈/爸爸（根据情况填写），相信你们都重视TA对我的爱，也希望我与你们双方保持亲密。所以请不要把我当作倾诉对象。'

So I'm gonna give you a sentence that you can use in these situations. That sounds really hard, but I'm not impartial here. And I really wish I could be, but it's just never going to happen. I really love mom slash dad, whoever it is, insert here, and I'm sure you value how much they love me and want me to stay close to both of you. So I can't be the person you vent to about that.

我很抱歉。简短直接。如果他们争论，就唤起他们的同理心。问他们，如果发现妈妈/爸爸也在和我这样谈论你，你会是什么感受？你愿意这样吗？

I'm sorry. Short and simple. And if they argue, play to their empathy. Ask them, how would you feel if you found out that mom slash dad was having these same conversations with me about you? Would you want that?

可能不愿意。或者当他们说'哦，你知道，他总是这样'或'她就是这样的'时装傻。表现得像'哦，我还是个孩子，真的。我能懂什么？'或者'我还很年轻'。

Probably not. Or play dumb when they say, oh, you know, he just always does this, or she's just like this and this and this. Be like, oh, I'm, you know, I'm just a kid, really. Like, what would I know? Or, you know, I'm really young still.

我真的没什么经验知道该怎么做。我其实不太理解这个。潜意识里要强调，嘿，听着。提醒一下，我才是这个情境中的孩子。

I don't really have much experience to know what you should do. I don't really understand this. Reinforce subliminally, like, hey. Hello. Reminder, I'm the child in this situation.

我发现这样真的很有帮助，就像打个响指或敲敲杯子提醒他们。这很不合适。你知道这不合适。我们要翻篇了。希望这能有点用。

And I find that really, like, helpful to just just to be, like almost give them a bit of a a snap of the fingers, a wave cup call. Like, this is inappropriate. You know it's inappropriate. We're gonna move on. Hopefully, that kinda helps.

第二个问题。我在和一个父母不成熟的人约会，但他自己意识不到。我该如何应对并帮助他看清这个问题？这很难。首先你要明白这不是你能解决的问题。

Second question. I'm dating someone with immature parents, but they can't see it. How can I firstly cope with it, but also help him to see that they have a problem? This is a tough one. I think, firstly, you've got to realize that this is not something that you're gonna be able to fix.

这不是你能主导的关系。这种情况很可能在你出现前就存在很久了。你必须非常谨慎地处理。就像告诉朋友你讨厌他们的伴侣，十有八九他们不会认同你的看法，很可能听不进去。

This is not a relationship that you can take charge of. This has most likely existed way before you came along. You have to approach this really delicately. I always think about it, like, trying to tell your friend that you hate their partner. Nine out of 10 times, they aren't gonna see it the way that you do, and and they probably aren't gonna listen.

然后你就会变成敌人。所以请记住，虽然你希望他们幸福安宁，希望他们生活没有压力紧张，但修复他们父母的关系不是你的责任，让他们看清问题并解决也不是你的工作。你只需要尝试用温和的方式慢慢让他们意识到。比如不要说'你父母太不成熟了'，而是试着说'嘿...'

And then you're just gonna become the enemy. So please just remember as much as you want them to be happy and at peace and you want their life to be free of of stress and tension, It's not your job to fix their parents' relationship. It's also not your job to make them see it and have to fix it either. You just wanna try and slowly introduce the idea to them in in a subtle way. So instead of being like, your parents are so immature, try something like, hey.

你有没有注意到，比如说，这件事？多有趣啊。哦，当他们刚才那样对你，直接把你打断时，你是什么感觉？哦，你有没有发现你其实需要在情感上像父母一样照顾你的父母？哦，这种情况是不是已经持续很久了？

Have you ever noticed, like, this thing? How interesting. Oh, how did you feel about that when they just did what they did just now when they shut you down? Oh, have you ever noticed that you kind of have to parent your parents emotionally? Oh, is that something that's been going on for a while?

比如说，哦，解释一下这种状况是怎么形成的。我想更多地了解你的童年经历。你看，这些都是非常不带评判性的开场白，能让他们自己发现行为模式。我真的很希望你记住，你的角色是倾听。你的角色只是引导他们自己发现问题，并接受这个过程不总是线性的。

Like, oh, explain where that came from. I wanna know more about what it was like in your childhood. Like, these are very nonjudgmental openings that let them discover patterns on their own. And I really want you to remember, like, your role is to listen. Your role role is to really just facilitate them figuring it out for themselves and just to be open to that not always being linear.

明白吗？他们不会从一开始就完全清醒地意识到父母存在严重问题。从你提出这个概念起，可能需要一些时间，期间可能会有各种借口。但要记住，如果你不愿意，你不需要和他的家人相处。如果问题出现了，那时你们可以讨论。

You know? They're not always gonna be totally awake and open eyed to the fact that their parents have some serious issues, like, from the moment that you start introducing the idea. And it might take them some time, and there might be excuses. But remember, you don't have to be around his family if you don't wanna be. If it comes up, that's when you can discuss it.

但这话可能听起来有争议。如果这是你考虑将来要结婚的对象，你同时也在和他的家庭结婚。所以当事情发展到你因为涉及自身而提出意见，但他们却矢口否认时——

But this is gonna sound controversial. Like, if this is someone you consider one day marrying, you're marrying their family as well. So if it does get to the point where you have said something because it because it involves you and they're like, nope. It's not like that. They're denying it.

他们根本视而不见。真的要好好想想这会对你们的关系造成什么影响，就像我们说的，或者对你们的孩子。就像我之前说的，有些人最终会变得情感上非常清醒、极度独立，能够打破情感代际不成熟的循环。但有些人做不到。而做不到的人往往从一开始就意识不到问题。

They're not seeing it. Really think about how that's gonna end up in their relationship, like, with you, you know, as we said, or with your children. Like, as I said before, some people end up being very emotionally aware and very hyperindependent and very they're able to kind of interrupt the pattern of emotional generational emotional immaturity. Other people aren't. And the people who aren't are the ones who don't even recognize it to begin with.

不是要把这个谈话搞得太沉重，但在某个时刻，你可能需要思考或自问：如果他连父母的问题都看不出来，万一有一天变成我们之间的问题，他也看不清自己怎么办？好了，第三个问题：如何避免变得和他们一样？这又是一个很重要的问题。首先，你在听这期节目——

So not to make this a very serious conversation, but at some point, you may have to wonder or ask yourself, if he can't recognize this in them, what if one day that's us and he can't recognize it in himself? Alright. Question number three, how to not become like them? This is another really big question. I think, firstly, you're listening to this episode.

你愿意倾听、保持好奇、善于反思、思想开放，这些都很重要。可以说你已经完成了75%的工作，就是承认问题的存在。下一步就是有时要让自己难受到必须承担责任的地步。我的意思是，你必须诚实地对自己说：嘿，我现在的行为不对劲，这反映或让我想起父母当年可能是怎么对我的。

The fact that you're listening to this, that you're curious, reflective, open, that matters. You've basically already done, I would say, 75% of the work, which is just acknowledgment. The next step is just to sometimes really hold yourself accountable to the point of discomfort. And what I mean by that is you do genuinely have to be like, hey. The behavior that I'm exhibiting is not on, and it is reflective, or it is reminiscent of how my parents are perhaps related to me.

我不想成为那样的人。到此为止吧。试着关注些更积极的榜样。你生活中那些展现情感成熟的人是谁？那些能坦诚沟通的人是谁？看看他们的关系就会发现，嘿，其实这非常非常健康，你知道吗，他们敞开心扉表达感受反而没有破坏彼此的联系。

I don't wanna be that person. The ball stops here. Try and focus on some more positive examples. Who are people in your life who emulate emotional maturity, who are people who communicate openly, look at their relationships and realize, like, hey. Actually, this is very, very healthy, and, you know, them just being open about their feelings has not destroyed their connection.

这可能也是我的出路。我发现我有几个朋友情感上特别成熟，他们处理自己及他人情绪的能力总让我惊叹不已，这让我也想成为更好的人。想想你父母在某种情况下会怎么做，然后反其道而行。有时候这是最简单的不变成他们那样的方法。还有心理治疗。

That might be a possibility for me. I found that I have a couple friends who are just so emotionally mature, and I'm constantly just, like, so impressed by their ability to handle their emotions and the emotions of others, and it makes me wanna be a better person. Think about what your parents would do into in a situation and do the opposite. Sometimes that is just, like, the easiest way to not become like them. And therapy.

比如，治疗师能帮你看到的东西，我永远无法帮你看到——毕竟我不真正了解你，但更重要的是你自己去面对问题并尝试解决。没有镜子照见自己。有时候你需要有人举着镜子对你说：嘿，看看阴影落在这里。你注意到自己这一点了吗？

Like, there is so much that a therapist could help you see that I could never help you see because, well, I don't really know you, but also that you just doing the own your own work and just trying to solve it yourself. There's no mirror. Like, you need someone sometimes to hold up a mirror to yourself and say, hey. Look where the shadow's falling here. Have you noticed this about yourself?

这类问题绝对需要专业治疗。顶尖水准的。好，第四个问题——说实话，昨晚我和伴侣花了一个小时讨论这个问题：当你想要父母中的一方而非另一方参与生活时，该怎么办？

It's super essential therapy for this kind of thing. Top notch. Okay. Our fourth question, and I'll be honest, me and my partner spent, like, an hour talking about this question last night. What do you do when you want one parent in your life but not the other?

我得说我想了很久。唯一具体的建议是：和你想要的那位父母谈谈这件事，听听他们的想法。你要知道，他们不仅作为父母，也作为伴侣了解另一方。我总惊讶地发现，当然啊，父母对彼此的了解远胜于我，因为他们有着完全不同的关系维度。

I will say I thought about it for a while. The only specific advice I could come up with is to talk to the parent you do want in your life about it, see what they think. You know, they understand your other parent not just as a parent, but as a partner as well. And I'm always surprised. Like, of course, my parents know so much more about each other than I do because they have this whole different relationship.

所以邀请你想要的那位父母参与你的思考，看看他们如何回应，是否有什么解决方法。我还想强烈推荐一集播客，它以如此生动、个人化、充满同理心的绝佳方式探讨这个问题——来自《美国生活》的第823期《问题陷阱》。这期节目采访了一个四口之家，其中孩子公开出柜，而父亲日益右倾且反疫苗。

So invite the parent you want in your life into your thinking, and just see how they respond and see if they have any way of approaching it. I also wanna really recommend a podcast episode that talks about this in such an anecdotal, personal, empathetic, wonderful way, and it's from This American Life. It's episode 823, The Question Trap. And in that podcast episode, they talk to a family of two kids, mom and dad. One of the kids is openly gay, and the father is becoming increasingly right wing, and he's anti vaxx.

他正经历着...我不想说是困境。他基本上完全不接受孩子的——我讨厌用生活方式这个词——但就是完全不认同孩子的身份认同。而他和母亲还在一起，母亲是个温暖善良的好人。显然孩子们想和母亲保持亲密，希望彼此生活仍有交集，但不想与父亲往来。他们处理这个问题的方式非常复杂、微妙且引人深思。

And he's having real, I don't wanna say difficulties. He's basically just not accepting of his child's, you know, I hate to say lifestyle, but his child's identity, like, at all. And him and the mom are still together, and the mother is just this wonderful, warm, kind person. And, obviously, the children wanna be friends with their mother and want they wanna be still in each other's lives, but not with the father. And the way they handle it is so complex and nuanced and interesting.

虽然我对此没有具体详细的建议，但去听听那期播客吧。我想它会让你感觉不那么孤单。而且，是的，这真的让我思考。最后一个问题：我该如何教会父母基本的情感认知、调节和沟通技巧？

And so although I don't have specific detailed advice on this, listen to that podcast episode. I think it will just make you feel a lot less alone. And, yeah, it really got me thinking. Final question. How do I teach my parents basic emotional literacy, regulation, and communication?

你做不到。我认为你做不到。很抱歉。我觉得如果他们愿意改变，资源是有的。以你和他们的年龄，我确信他们之前就遇到过情感不成熟的问题，但这并未促使他们改变。

You can't. I don't think you can. I'm sorry. I think that if they wanted to do it, there are resources. And at the age you are and at the age they are, I'm sure they have encountered issues with their emotional immaturity before, and it really hasn't called them to change.

我并不是说他们无法改变，而是说说服或教育他们不是你的责任。我的意思是，如果你已经向他们提出过这个问题，他们已经完全有理由想要改变。如果他们对此不开放，我认为这不是你的职责，也不认为你会成功。我们真正追求的是不让他们的行为延续下去，让你在其他关系中感到安全，并与他们建立适当界限，以免他们糟糕的情绪调节演变成你的情绪紧张和痛苦。

What I'm saying is not that they can't change, but that it's not your job to convince them or to teach them. What I'm saying is that they have every reason to want to change already if you've already brought it up with them, if you've already talked about it with them. Trying to therefore teach them like, they they should already be open to that. And if they're not, I don't think it's your job, and I don't think you'll be that successful. What we're really aiming for here is that their behaviors don't get passed along, that you are okay, that you feel safe in your other relationships, and that you have proper boundaries with them so that their poor emotional regulation doesn't translate into your emotional tension and distress.

我知道有人会不同意我的观点。也许有一天我也会推翻自己的看法。如果我改变了主意，我会告诉你们。但从我阅读的所有研究来看，我认为如果一个人不想改变，他就不会改变。如果有人多次获得学习机会却无动于衷，这不是你的问题。

And I'm sure people will disagree with me on this. And maybe one day I'll also disagree with myself, and I will change my mind. And I will let you know if I do. But from everything that I was reading and all the research, I just think that if someone doesn't want to change, they will not change. If someone doesn't want to learn, if someone has been given multiple opportunities to learn and they have not done so, it's not your issue.

我认为这只是他们对你'亲子角色反转'的又一种表现。记住，本该是他们教你这些。这才是你作为孩子的角色。你觉得需要教育他们的事实，恰恰证明了他们对你的角色反转。试图改变他们的想法实际上只会让你更深地陷入压力、戏剧性场面和那种身为父母的别扭感中。

And I just think it's yet another way that they are parentifying you. Remember, they were meant to teach you these things. That was your role as a child. And so the fact that you feel like you need to teach them is just further evidence of their parentification of you. And I think engaging in this kind of thinking of, like, I'm going to change them and I can help them is actually just further involving you in in the the stress and the drama and the discomfort of feeling like their parent and not the other way around.

我完全接受关于这个问题的反馈。如果有人有过类似经历，请告诉我你的建议——无论是处理这类问题的建议，还是自我调节的方法。如果你正在经历或曾经经历过这些（我们都知道这似乎没有尽头），你采取了哪些措施来帮助自己？建立了哪些界限？

I am totally open to feedback on that. So if someone has had an experience in doing this, please let me know your tips or your tips for any of these issues, for just handling this yourself. If you are someone who has gone through this, who is going through this as we all end up you know, I feel like there is no end point to going through this, What have you done to help yourself? What have you done to manage this? What have you done to put up boundaries?

我想知道。在评论区留下你的建议，帮助其他面临同样问题的人。最后提醒你并不孤单：上代人的情感不成熟问题虽然正在减少，但我们仍在应对那个压抑、停滞、封闭的社会遗留问题。这真的非常艰难——当你看着父母时，那种'能不能成熟一次'的感觉实在太煎熬了。

I wanna know. Leave some suggestions in the comments for others who are dealing with this. Also, as a reminder that you are not alone, Emotional immaturity from previous generations, it's now on a decline, but we're still dealing with the remnants of a very suppressed, stagnant, closed off society. And it's really freaking tough. And it's so tough when you're looking at your parents being like, be an adult for once.

当个他妈称职的父母。这是你的责任，不是我的。成熟点吧，可他们就是做不到。所以我非常爱你。你值得被看见、被重视、被关爱。

Be my fucking parent. That's your job, not my job. Be mature, and they just can't do it. So I have a lot of love for you. You deserve to be seen, valued, cared for.

你值得让他们来帮你调节情绪，而不是反过来。但我向你保证，世界上存在这样的关系——你不必持续付出，那里有健康的情感框架和情感关系在等待着你。希望你能找到它，并知道你并不孤单。如果喜欢本期节目，请分享给可能受益的人。在网上传播它。

You deserve to have them help you regulate rather than the other way around. But I promise you there are relationships out there where you won't have to do this continuously, where there is a healthy emotional framework and emotional relationship waiting for you. So I hope you find it, and know you're not alone in this. If you enjoyed this episode, send it to someone who you think may also benefit from it. Share it online.

在Instagram上分享。我喜欢看你们在哪里收听。记得在Instagram上关注@thatpsychologypodcast，这样你就能参与未来节目、听众问答，或第一时间获知更新。如果感兴趣，请购买我的新书《Person in Progress》。它刚满月，我至今仍感到难以置信。

Share it on Instagram. I love seeing where you guys are listening. Make sure that you are following me on Instagram at that psychology podcast so you can be involved in future episodes, listener questions, or just know when episodes go live. Make sure to buy my book if you feel called to do so called person in progress. It's been out for exactly a month, and I'm still in shock by that fact.

但反响实在太美好了，我不能多谈否则会情绪激动。总之谢谢，谢谢，谢谢。下次见，注意安全。

But the response has just been so beautiful, and I can't get into it because I'll get emotional. But thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And until next time, stay safe.

保持善良。记得持续关注。对自己温柔些，我们很快会再聊。

Be kind. Make sure you're following along. Be gentle with yourself, and we will talk very, very soon.

在《健康那些事》播客中，我们解答所有让你夜不能寐的健康问题。

On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.

我是普里扬卡·沃利医生，拥有双委员会认证的医师资格。

I'm Doctor. Priyanka Wally, a double board certified physician.

我是哈里·昆达博卢，一名喜剧演员，曾经在凌晨三点搜索过‘我是不是得了坏血病？’。在我们的节目中，我们以不同的方式探讨健康话题，比如有一期我们讨论了糖尿病。

And I'm Hari Kundabolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, Do I have scurvy at 3AM? And on our show, we're talking about health in a different way, like our episode where we look at diabetes.

在美国，我的意思是，有相当比例的美国人处于糖尿病前期。

In The United States, I mean, percent of Americans are prediabetic.

二型糖尿病有多大的可预防性？

How preventable is type two?

非常高。在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何你获取播客的地方收听健康相关内容。

Extremely. Listen to health stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

她说，约翰尼，孩子们没有回家

And she said, Johnny, the kids didn't come home

毫无道理的自杀、离奇的事故和残忍的谋杀。这情节简直像是直接从《绝命毒师》里搬出来的。毒品、酒精、人口贩卖。

suicides that don't make sense, strange accidents, and brutal murders. In what seems to be a plot ripped straight out of Breaking Bad. Drugs, alcohol, trafficking of people.

有些人绝对知道发生了什么。

There are people out there that absolutely know what happened.

请在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或您获取播客的任何平台收听《纸鬼：德克萨斯青少年谋杀案》。

Listen to Paper Ghosts, The Texas Teen Murders on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

当你将

What do you get when

五十年代的好莱坞、一位怀揣梦想的古巴音乐家，与史上最具标志性的情景喜剧之一相结合，你会得到什么？答案就是德西·阿内兹。在这档由德西·阿内兹和威尔默·瓦尔德拉玛主演的播客中，我将带您探索德西的人生历程，看他如何重新定义美国电视，以及这对我们这些在荧幕外期待看到自己面孔的观众意味着什么。请在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或您获取播客的任何平台收听由德西·阿内兹和威尔默·瓦尔德拉玛主演的节目。

you mix nineteen fifties Hollywood, a Cuban musician with a dream, and one of the most iconic sitcoms of all time? You get Desi Arness. On the podcast starring Desi Arness and Wilmer Valderrama. I'll take you on a journey to Desi's life, how he redefined American television, and what that meant for all of us watching from the sidelines, waiting for a face like ours on screen. Listen to starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

我是罗伯特·史密斯，这位是雅各布·戈尔茨坦。我们曾主持过一档名为《金钱星球》的节目。

I'm Robert Smith, and this is Jacob Goldstein. And we used to host a show called Planet Money.

现在我们回归制作这档名为《商业史》的新播客，讲述历史上最杰出的商业理念、人物和企业。

And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history.

也包括商业史上最恶劣的人物、最糟糕的创意和最具破坏性的公司。

And some of the worst people, horrible ideas, and destructive companies in the history of business.

首期节目将讲述西南航空如何凭借廉价机票和免费威士忌在航空业杀出一条血路

First episode, how Southwest Airlines used cheap seats and free whiskey to fight its way into the airline

商业。

business.

最具德州特色的故事。

The most Texas story ever.

在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何你获取播客的地方收听商业历史。

Listen to business history on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

你获取播客的地方。

you get your podcasts.

这是iHeart的播客节目。

This is an iHeart podcast.