318. 二十多岁时应对不确定性的方法

这是一档iHeart播客节目。

This is an iHeart podcast.

大家好，我是美国甜心约翰尼·诺克斯维尔。我要向大家介绍我的新真实犯罪播客《无罪的乡巴佬劫案》，由Smartless Media、Campsite Media和Big Money Players联合出品。这个故事疯狂讲述了几个高能蠢蛋如何阴差阳错完成了美国史上第三大现金劫案。

Hello. America's sweetheart Johnny Knoxville here. I wanna tell you about my new true crime podcast, Crimeless Hillbilly Heist from smartless media, campsite media, and big money players. It's a wild tell about a gang of high functioning nitwits who somehow pulled off America's third largest cash heist.

有点像罗宾汉，只不过——

Kinda like Robin Hood except for

少了劫富济贫那部分

the part where he steals from the rich

我可没那么慷慨。

and gives to the poor. I'm not that generous.

这几乎是个鼓舞人心的真实故事，献给所有曾志存高远却搞砸收场的人。

It's a damn near inspiring true story for anyone out there who's ever shot for the moon then just totally muffed up the landing.

他们偷了1700万美元，却连张帮他逃跑的车票都没买。

They stole $17,000,000 and had not bought a ticket to help him escape.

所以我们当时就在说，天啊。我们该怎么办？该怎么办？

So we're saying like, oh god. What do we do? What do we do?

那太蠢了。大家可别学我这样。

That was dumb. People do not follow my example.

请在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何你获取播客的平台收听《Crimeless, Hillbilly Heist》。

Listen to Crimeless, Hillbilly Heist on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

大家好，我是Ed Helms，播客《Snafu》的主持人，这档节目讲述历史上最严重的搞砸事件。新一季中，每期都会带来一个全新的‘Snafu’故事。

Hey. It's Ed Helms, host of Snafu, my podcast about history's greatest screw ups. On our new season, we're bringing you a new Snafu every single episode.

32枚遗失的核武器？你会觉得，等等，停一下，什么情况？

32 lost nuclear weapons? You're like, wait. Stop. What?

没错。这一季将充满历史故事、爆笑时刻和众多精彩嘉宾——Paul Scheer、Angela和Jenna、Nick Kroll、Jordan Klepper。快来iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何你获取播客的平台收听Ed Helms主持的《Snafu》第四季。

Yeah. It's gonna be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of fabulous guests. Paul Scheer, Angela and Jenna, Nick Kroll, Jordan Klepper. Listen to season four of snafu with Ed Helms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

两位富有的美国年轻人搬到哥斯达黎加丛林重新开始，但其中一人最终丧命，另一人则三次因谋杀受审。故事始于一个梦想、一片自然保护区，以及一栋壮观的新家。但渐渐地

Two rich young Americans move to the Costa Rican jungle to start over, but one of them will end up dead and the other tried for murder three times. It starts with a dream, a nature reserve, and a spectacular new home. But little by little

他们失控了，真的彻底失控了。

They lose it. They actually lose it.

他们某种程度上已经

They sort of went

疯了。直到某个夜晚，一切都失去了控制。在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或任何你获取播客的地方收听《天堂里的地狱》。

nuts. Until one night, everything spins out of control. Listen to hell in Heaven on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

安珀的镇上有种邪恶的疾病。你必须根除它。深入地下，把它挖出来。

There's a vile sickness in Amber's town. You must excise it. Dig into the deep earth and cut it out.

来自iHeart播客和亚伦·曼基的Grim and Mild，这是《混乱小镇》，一部设定在布里奇沃特音频宇宙中的全新虚构播客，由朱尔斯·斯泰特和雷·怀斯主演。在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或任何你获取播客的地方收听《混乱小镇》。

From iHeart Podcasts and Grim and Mild from Aaron Mankey, this is Havoc Town, a new fiction podcast set in the Bridgewater audio universe, starring Jules State and Ray Wise. Listen to Havoc Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

我是阿诺·奥尔蒂斯。

It's Ano Ortiz.

我是马克·因德利卡多。

And I'm Mark Indelicado.

你可能知道我们是希尔达

You might know us as Hilda

还有贾斯汀。

And Justin.

来自《丑女贝蒂》。

From Ugly Betty.

欢迎收听我们的新播客，

Welcome to our new podcast,

《贝蒂万岁》。

Viva Betty.

太棒了。我们要从头到尾重温这部剧。

Yay. We're rewatching the series from start to finish.

并采访标志性嘉宾，比如贝蒂本人——亚美莉卡·费雷拉。

And talking to iconic guests like Betty herself, America Ferrera.

就在那一刻，眼镜戴上了

There was this moment when the glasses went on

然后感觉就像，这就是我们的贝蒂。

and it was like, this is our Betty.

在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或你获取播客的任何地方收听《Viva Betty》。

Listen to Viva Betty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

嘿，我是杰玛，我有件特别的事要和大家分享。我将首次主持一场虚拟现场视频播客。不是预先录制的节目，也不是精彩片段集锦，而是一次实时的面对面交流，无论你身处世界何处，我们都能一起连接、欢笑并共同反思。此外，我还为我的核心圈子准备了一个VIP会后派对，届时我会回答你们的问题，和大家更深入地交谈。活动时间是太平洋时间8月12日晚7点，或者悉尼时间8月13日中午12点（我的家乡）。

Hey, it's Gemma, and I have something really special to share with you. I'm hosting my first ever virtual live video podcast. Not a prerecorded episode, not a highlight reel, but a real time face to face moment where we get to connect, laugh, and kind of just reflect together no matter where you are in the world. Plus, I'm hosting a VIP after party for my inner circle where I will be answering your questions and getting to talk to you guys even more. It's happening August 12 at 7PM Pacific time or August 13 at 12PM if you live in my hometown of Sydney.

现在就可以在pave.live上购票。我迫不及待想在那里见到你们。大家好，欢迎回到《二十几岁的心理学》，这档播客我们将探讨二十多岁期间的一些重大人生变化和转折，以及它们对我们心理的影响。大家好，欢迎回到节目。

You can grab your ticket now at pave.live. I cannot wait to see you there. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the psychology of your twenties, the podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they mean for our psychology. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show.

欢迎回到播客，无论你是新听众还是老听众，无论你身处世界哪个角落。很高兴你们能再次加入我们，一起剖析二十几岁的心理。今天，我们直入主题，讨论的可能是二十多岁最具标志性的特征——这个十年里压倒性的不确定性。如果要用一个词来概括这个阶段，一个凌驾于所有主题之上的关键词，那就是‘不确定’。我们迷失在这种奇怪的迷雾中，不太清楚自己是谁，也不太知道未来会怎样——我们的工作、朋友、财务状况、感情生活将何去何从。

Welcome back to the podcast, new listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world. It is so great to have you here back for another episode as we, of course, break down the psychology of your twenties. Today, to just jump straight to the chase, we are talking about perhaps one of the most defining parts of our twenties, the overwhelming uncertainty of just being in this decade. If this decade had one word to describe it, one theme to trump them all, it would be uncertainty. We are lost in this very weird haze of not really knowing who we are, not really knowing what the future holds, what's gonna happen with our jobs, with our friends, with our finances, with our love lives.

甚至当你以为对某些方面已经有所把握时，生活的另一部分又会突然崩塌，让你感觉又回到了最初的迷茫。前几天我收到一位听众的私信，正是这封信启发我谈论这个话题。回顾往期节目时，我意识到尽管这种感受可以说具有普遍性，但我们从未专门做一期节目来深入探讨它。她的私信是这样写的：嗨，杰玛。

And even once you think you have some part of it figured out, another part of your life suddenly crumbles, and you're kinda just left feeling as lost as you were before. So I got this DM from a listener the other day that I wanted to share, which really inspired me to talk about this. Because going back through the archives, I realized we have never sat down and done a full episode dedicated to this feeling despite it being, I would say, universal. This is what her DM said. Hi, Gemma.

我和大多数听众一样正值二十多岁，肯定有很多人有同感。我的困境在于，所有人都告诉我只要尝试就好，二十多岁时走哪条路不重要，关键是在前进。但真正让我裹足不前的，是不知道所选的道路能否让我快乐，或至少比其他选择更快乐。每当我展望未来，眼前总像笼罩着一团不祥的灰色阴云，总觉得只要知道故事的某个片段，就能一劳永逸地确定方向。我该如何应对这种对不确定性的恐惧？

I'm in my twenties like I'm sure most of your listeners are, so there must be others who relate to this feeling. My dilemma is that everyone tells me to just try something and that it doesn't matter what path I'm taking in my twenties as long as I'm moving forward. What really paralyzes me though is not knowing whether the path I choose to take will make me happy or at least happier than any other path. When I visualize my future, it just feels like a big ominous gray cloud, and I can't help but feel like if I just knew one part of the story, I could decide once and for all what direction to take. How do I deal with my fear of uncertainty?

这正是阻碍我前进的最大障碍。读到这段话时，我立刻意识到我们中有多少人——包括我自己——都深有同感。那种感觉不是对未来充满期待，而是感到它异常可怕且不祥。对未知的恐惧会助长优柔寡断，导致我们不敢在人生这个阶段做出重要决定，而这自然会引发日后的不满。但当你明白我们为何会产生这种不确定感，为何逃避未知是人类天性，以及如何转变对不确定性的感受使其不再那么可怕时，这种情绪对你的掌控力就会减弱。

It's the biggest thing holding me back. I just knew, like, instantly upon reading this how many of us, and I can include myself in this group, can relate to that feeling. The feeling that our futures are not necessarily exciting, but actually really scary and really ominous. And a lot of that fear of the unknown really fuels indecision, and it fuels not making decisions that are important to make at this stage in our life, which, of course, fuels later dissatisfaction. But I think when you understand why we feel such uncertainty to begin with, why it is human nature to turn away from the unknown, but also how we can shift our feelings about uncertainty so that it feels less scary, that is when the sensation has less control of you.

要知道，你不再是在打一场必败的仗。不确定性或许能成为你方向正确的标志，是成长的信号，表明你正在尝试新事物、拓展自我边界。所以你应该欢迎它。

You know, you're no longer fighting a losing battle against it. Uncertainty can become perhaps your sign that you're going in the right direction. It can be a sign of growth. It can be a sign that you are trying new things and you're expanding as a person. So you welcome it.

与其逃避这种感受，不如欣然接纳。如果这听起来难以置信又遥不可及，让我具体说明如何实现这种转变。若想达到这种境界，我们需要将不确定性转化为优势，并制定更好的应对策略。这正是我们今天要探讨的内容：如何庆祝而非恐惧未知，如何将这种感觉融入人生规划并视其为路标，同时探究这种感受的根源——不仅存在于二十多岁的年纪，更是人类物种的特性。这些话题还涉及大量心理学知识，请继续关注。

You welcome the sensation rather than running away from it. If that sounds kind of implausible and out of reach, let me explain how exactly we can get to that point. If you wanna get to that place, we're gonna have to make uncertainty feel like an asset, and we need to have a better strategy for coping with this feeling. And so that is exactly what we are going to talk about today, how we can celebrate rather than fear the unknown, how we can integrate this feeling into our life plan, see it as a sign, but also some of the origins of why we feel this way, not just in our twenties, but as a species. All that and more and so much psychology, so stay with us.

当我意识到不确定性是无聊和可预测性的反面时，对它的恐惧确实改变了。如果我能预知人生的每个细节——每个转角会遇到什么，每个朋友的名字，直到退休前的完整履历——是的，我的不确定感会减少。但这样活着还有什么意义？我认为生命的新鲜感、各种经历和惊喜，才是让这一切有价值的关键。没有不确定性，

My fear of uncertainty, I think, definitely shifted when I realized that uncertainty is the opposite of boredom and predictability. If I knew exactly how my life was gonna turn out, if I knew what was around every single corner, the name of every single friend I would meet, my entire resume until the time I retire, yes, I would feel less uncertain. But what would the point of being alive even be? I think the newness of life, the experiences, the surprises, they are really what makes this whole thing worthwhile in a sense. You can't have surprises.

就不会有意外之喜，无法学习新知，也体会不到兴奋与期待。它是构成诸多美妙体验的核心要素。这正是我个人正在学习欣赏的——当那些因未知而停滞的自然时刻来临时，我会专注于此。

You can't have unexpected joy. You can't learn. You can't have excitement and anticipation without uncertainty. It is a core ingredient in so many otherwise really amazing and pleasurable experiences. And that's what I'm personally learning to appreciate and focus on when I do have those very natural moments of being paralyzed by all that I don't know yet.

我可能有点操之过急了。没错，不确定性自有其优势。我们当然可以换种角度看待它。但为什么我们最初会产生这种感受？又是什么让它如此令人不适？

I'm kind of jumping the gun here. Yes. Uncertainty may have its upsides. We definitely can think about it differently. But why do we even experience it to begin with, and what makes it so freaking uncomfortable.

这正是我们首先要明确的关键。就像我一开始说的，二十多岁的不确定性本质上是一体两面的，原因有很多。首先，我希望你对自己宽容些。毕竟你基本上是在第一次经历所有事情——你就像个成年幼儿或大龄儿童，虽然理论上应该会读写、能自理，但此刻你正面临更复杂的情感处境和更高级别的学习体验。

That's really what we have to nail down first. Like I said in the beginning, uncertainty in our twenties are basically two peas in a pod for a variety of reasons. Firstly, I want you to give yourself some grace. You are doing everything for the first time ever, basically. You are basically an adult toddler or an adult child who, yes, can read, hopefully, and can write and is hopefully potty trained and all those things, but you are now experiencing the next level of situations, the next level of learning experiences that are emotionally complex and not straightforward.

而当你经历这些时，你也不再拥有年少时依赖的安全网。没有老师父母的安慰，没有教育体系和社会体系的保障（但愿这些体系不会让你被遗忘）。你只能靠自己。因此不确定性会显得更可怕，因为你觉得任何错误决定或糟糕结果都要由自己全权承担。

And as you're experiencing that, you also are without the same safety net that you relied upon when you were younger. And you're without the reassurance and the security of teachers and parents and a school system and a societal system that hopefully isn't gonna let you fall through the cracks. You're on your own. And uncertainty, therefore, feels a lot more alarming because you feel like you're the one who is going to hold the burden, experience the the full burden of any poor decision or any poor outcome you made. It's all on you at this point.

另一个因素是：作为成年幼儿，你尚未积累足够的生活经验来确信事情最终会好转——即使首次尝试失败，即使当下进展不顺。四五十岁的人知道分手不是世界末日，因为他们经历过且熬过来了；他们明白重大失误、失去朋友或工作都不意味着终结，因为过往经历给了他们底气。但你还没有这些数据支撑，没有那本证明'一切都会好起来'的案例集。

Another element of this is that because you are an adult toddler, you haven't had enough life experience yet to know that things will eventually work out for you even if they don't the first time, even if they are not working out right now. People in their forties and their fifties and later, they know that the breakup isn't the end of the world because they've experienced them and survived before. They know making a major mistake or losing a friend or losing a job isn't the end of the world because they have evidence from previous life experience to tell them that. But you, you don't have those same data points. You don't have that same catalog of examples that tell you everything is gonna be okay.

你们二十多岁人群的不确定性，与年长者不同，往往看不到明确结局。雪上加霜的是，你们正处于人生里程碑的间隙期，这十年注定是持续转型的阶段——不再是青少年，却还未真正感到成年；财务未达标，事业未定型。

Uncertainty for you and uncertainty for a lot of us in our twenties doesn't have a conclusion the way that it has for people who are older. Then, of course, just to add even more fuel to the fire, there's the fact that you're kind of living between milestones, and this decade is definitely one of perpetual transition. You know, you're no longer a teenager, but, you know, you don't really feel like an adult yet. You're not at that financial level. You're not settled in a career.

感情状态也不符合你对'成年人'的预期。你究竟算什么？心理学家称之为'阈限空间'，一种过渡状态。而阈限情感空间天生就令人迷失方向，因为它们没有既定剧本。当然，也没人能准确告诉你：'你做得很棒，你很成功'。

You're not settled in a relationship the way that you expect adults to be. What are you really? It's what psychologists call a liminal space, the in between. And liminal emotional spaces are, by nature, by definition, disorientating because they don't come with a clear script. And, of course, there's no accurate way, and there's no one who's gonna be able to tell you, like, okay.

早年生活中（这是我常和人探讨的），你的每一天、每一周、每个月都有现成结构来评判你是否做得好——

You're doing you're doing well. You're doing fine. You are being you are successful. Earlier in life this is something I talk to people about all the time. Earlier in life, your entire days, weeks, months are set up in a structure that will tell you if you are doing well.

生活表现有明确基准：比如成绩、升学，比如与你处境相同、年龄相仿的整个同龄群体（可能都在学校环境里），你可以对照他们衡量进度。但现在这些框架都消失了，你再也找不到参照系来判断自己过得好不好。

There are clear benchmarks for life performance, Things like grades, things like passing to the next year level, things like a whole cohort of people in the same situation at the same time and the same age as you with whom you can mark your progress against. And they're probably all in the same environment, like at school. You don't have that anymore. You don't have that same framework to look around and think, okay. I'm doing okay or I'm not doing okay.

这些是我可以改进的领域，或是我表现出色的方面。现在你不再拥有这些了。虽然看起来可能很随意，但那些社会结构、环境结构和背景实际上提供了极大的平静感和稳定性。因此，在这十年里，你几乎突然失去了许多曾经让你保持踏实的东西——安全感、结构和方向。

And these are the areas I can improve, or these are the areas that I'm excelling. You don't have that anymore. And it might seem really arbitrary, but those social structures and those environmental structures and that context actually provides a great deal of and a great sense of of calm and stability. So you have, during this decade, almost suddenly lost a lot of what previously allowed you to stay grounded. Security, structure, direction.

当然，最后一点可能感觉像诅咒但其实并非如此：作为一代人，我们拥有比以往更多的选择。确实如此。这是件美好的事，每个人都告诉我们非常幸运。但我们也知道这造成了真正的选择悖论，可能相当令人窒息。要知道，二十多岁时，大约80%的大门都向我们敞开，这很惊人。

And, of course, finally, what may feel like a curse but certainly isn't is the fact that as a generation, we have more choices than ever. We really do. And and it's a beautiful thing, and everyone tells us we're very privileged. We also know that that creates a real paradox of choice that can be quite stifling. You know, it is amazing that when we're in our twenties, like, 80% of the doors are open to us.

确实有些事我们可能再也做不到了。比如，如果你从小没有接受训练，恐怕无法成为奥运体操选手。但总体来说，你几乎站在所有其他事情的起跑线上。所有大门都敞开着。你知道这实际上有多可怕吗？

Definitely, there are some things that we probably can't do anymore. You know, unfortunately, you're probably not going to become an Olympic gymnast if you haven't been training since you were a child. But in general, you know, you're at the start line of pretty much everything else. All the doors are open. Do you know how utterly terrifying that actually is?

你可能知道，因为你正在经历它。但确实感觉每做一个决定，似乎就关闭了更多门。既不确定以后是否真想重新打开那扇门，也不确定接下来会发生什么，关闭这些门看起来比满足感更令人恐惧。所以你什么都不做。被选择和无穷的利弊清单所麻痹，这就是我们熟知的决策瘫痪。这确实是二十多岁对不确定性的解释。

You probably do because you're experiencing it, but it certainly does feel like with each decision you make, the more doors you seem to close. With no certainty around whether you might actually wanna go back through that door later and no certainty around what might happen next, closing those doors seems a lot more scary than it does fulfilling. So you do nothing. You're paralyzed by choice and the endless procons list that we know as decision paralysis. That's really the 20 explanation for uncertainty.

关于为什么任何形式的不确定性——不仅限于二十多岁时的重大抉择——都让我们这个物种如此不适，还有更人性化的解释。首先说明显的事实：我们的大脑天生寻求稳定和清晰，因为当某件事已知且熟悉时，危险和威胁的机会自然更少。控制这种原始冲动的脑部区域有两个：前额叶皮层（就在前额这里）和边缘系统（位于大脑深处），后者是我们所称的'旧脑'的一部分。

There's also a more human explanation as to why uncertainty in any capacity, not just when it comes to the big ticket items of our twenties, is so uncomfortable for us as a species. To firstly really state the obvious, our brains, they are wired to seek out stability and clarity because when something is known and familiar, there are, of course, less opportunities for danger and threats. Now the part of our brain that controls this primal urge, there's two specific regions, actually. It's the prefrontal cortex, so right up here at the front, and the limbic system, which is really deep inside our brain. It's part of what we call the old brain.

两千年代初的一系列研究发现，当我们面对模糊事物（如模糊图像或场景）时，边缘系统尤其是杏仁核会活跃起来。即使参与者在没有即时危险的实验室环境中，大脑对不理解的事物（比如未来的未知）总会反应过度谨慎和热切。这种感觉也是我们无法抑制的，它是自动的。有充分理由如此——我们希望评估危险的那部分大脑不依赖判断，能快速行动。

A series of studies done in the early two thousands basically found that when we are exposed to ambiguous things like an ambiguous image or ambiguous scenery, the limbic system, particularly the amygdala, light up. Even when these participants were in a laboratory setting where there is no immediate danger, your brain is always going to respond overcautiously and overzealously to something it doesn't understand, such as the unknowns of the future. But that feeling is also something that we can't suppress. It's automatic. And for good reason, you know, we want that part of us that assesses danger to not be reliant on our judgment and to be able to act quick.

我们对不确定性如此厌恶的原因，主要根植于生存需要。面对未知时，大脑会立即搜集尽可能多的信息（无论真实或想象）来填补空白。大脑天生如此运作。你可能知道这种现象的另一个术语——

And, you know, the reason that we have such an aversion to uncertainty is primarily rooted in the fact that we needed to in order to survive. When you face an unknown, you know, your brain will immediately seek out as much information as it can, real or imagined, to fill the gaps. Our brain is wired to do this. You might know this by another term, which

是

is

灾难化思维。你的大脑正试图预测这里可能发生的每一件事。它会模拟各种结果，生成预测。问题在于它其实根本不知道会发生什么。

catastrophizing. Your brain is trying to figure out what's every possible thing that's gonna happen here. It's gonna simulate outcomes. It's gonna generate predictions. The problem is it actually has no idea what's gonna happen.

所以它会呈现所有这些情境，有些完全不可能发生，有些可能更有可能。我们并不总能分辨哪些更可能或更不可能。我们只是从这个古老的大脑部分接收信息，并实时体验这些信息。我们正经历着所有涌来的恐惧，却无法打断这个过程去思考：等等，我为什么会有这种想法？

So it serves up all these situations, some of them completely impossible, some of them may be more likely. We can't always discern or tell the difference between what is more likely and what is less likely. We are just receiving information from this very old ancient part of our brain, and we're experiencing at it as it comes. We're experiencing all the fear as it comes without being able to interrupt that and say, wait. How do I why do I think this?

我怎么知道这会发生？哦等等，其实我并不知道。这就引出了下一点：我们的许多焦虑和恐惧并非源于实际发生的错误，而是源于'万一'的假设。

How do I know this is gonna happen? Oh, wait. I actually don't. So this brings me to a next point. A lot of our anxiety and our fears don't actually emerge from necessarily something having gone wrong in actuality but from the question of what if.

万一这发生了怎么办？万一更糟的情况发生了呢？万一最坏的情况发生了呢？这是因为我们的大脑会持续提供潜在结果，直到获得某种解决方案或结论。它不愿关闭警报系统，除非警报原因被赋予意义或问题被确认。

What if this happens? What if this even worse thing happens? What if the worst thing happens? This is because our brain will stay in this loop of providing us with potential outcomes until it has some kind of resolution or closure. It doesn't wanna switch off the alarm system until the reason for the alarm has been given meaning or it's identified what the problem was.

正如我之前所说，这在过去是有用的。但现在纯粹只是烦人。这种不确定感本就该让你觉得难受——它就是要让你感到烦躁、痛苦和沮丧，因为它的目的就是让你保持警觉。

And like I said, in the past, that was useful. Now it's just plain old annoying. It's annoying. And your uncertainty is meant to feel that way. It's meant to feel annoying and awful and frustrating because, again, it wants to keep you alert.

它想抓住你的注意力，就像醒目的广告牌或红色停车标志，要你直视它。它要你把焦点对准你不理解、不确定的事物，以便你能给出一个结论。关键在于：如果你为未知的焦虑和恐惧提供一个答案，具体说是赋予不确定性一个目的，它就会消失。我们稍后会详细讨论这点，请稍安勿躁。

It wants to grab your attention. Like, a big shiny billboard or a big red stop sign, it wants you to be looking straight at it. It wants you to be directing its focus onto the thing you don't understand and that you're unsure about so that you can provide it with a sense of closure. The thing is, if you give your anxiety and your fear of the unknown an answer, if you give yourself a reason for the uncertainty, more specifically, you give it a purpose, it will actually go away. We are gonna discuss that more in a second, so just bear with me.

但在继续之前，同样重要的是要明白，你在二十多岁时对不确定性的体验与他人感受这种情绪的方式并不相同。因此，如果你觉得自己比其他人更受其困扰，不必苛责自己。九十年代初，心理学家们发现了一种被称为‘不确定性不耐受谱系’的现象。他们发现，一个人对不确定性的耐受程度决定了其做决策前需要获取多少信息——这个谱系几乎是被偶然发现的。

But it's also important as well before we move on to understand that how you experience uncertainty in your twenties is not the same as how everyone else is going to experience this feeling. So you can't beat yourself up if you feel like you are struggling with it more than others. Psychologists in the early nineties, they identified what they called an intolerance for uncertainty spectrum. Basically, they found that where you sit in terms of your tolerance or intolerance for uncertainty will determine how much information you think you need before you make a decision. They discovered this spectrum almost by accident.

他们原本试图研究哪些人格特质会引发焦虑。在那项研究中，他们反复注意到许多参与者都报告了相同的体验：他们并非对即将发生的事情感到恐惧，而是迫切想知道究竟会发生什么。这些人会提前翻看书籍结局，即使剧情令他们兴奋；会主动查阅期待电影的情节剧透，尽管知道这会破坏观影乐趣。

They were actually trying to determine what personality traits caused anxiety. And in that research, what they kept realizing that was that a number of their participants all reported the same experience, this sense that they weren't necessarily scared about what was gonna happen. They just really wanted to know what was gonna happen. And these same people were the ones who would read ahead in books even if they were excited by the plotline. They would read spoilers in the papers of movies that they were really eager to see even though they knew it was gonna kind of ruin the enjoyment.

这些人有时还会在感情出现疏离感时做出冲动决定——并非真想结束关系，而是因为他们反复强调：已知的糟糕结局好过未知的美好可能。不出所料，这类人群也更可能被诊断为广泛性焦虑障碍。社会大众通常处于这个不耐受谱系的中段，而像你我这样的高分者，往往会耗费大量时间反复思虑未来而非活在当下，且难以自控。高度不耐受者可能不断列清单，

They would also, at times, make more impulsive decisions in their relationships when they felt something was fading or feeling off, not because they necessarily wanted the relationship to end, but because to them and this kept coming up over and over again, a known bad outcome was better than an unknown good outcome. These same individuals were also, surprise surprise, more likely to have a diagnosis of generalized anxiety disorder. Most people in society and in our world will score in the middle of this spectrum for an intolerance for uncertainty. But people who score higher, probably like you and I, tend to spend a lot more time ruminating on the future than being in the present moment, and they just can't help it. Someone with a high intolerance for uncertainty, they might make lists repeatedly.

在脑海中预演对话场景，提前研究餐厅菜单确保有合意菜品，连行车路线都要反复确认三次。所有这些行为本质上都是为了平息一个念头：'若我不知情，事情必定会出错——前方那片阴云只可能藏着危险'。

They plan out conversations in their head. They look at food menus well before they're going to a restaurant just to make sure that they know that there's something they're gonna like, and they know what they're gonna order. They triple check driving routes. They do all these things, basically, to calm this sense that if I don't know, well, then something's gonna go wrong. This cloud ahead of me, it can only be dangerous.

若你正是如此，那么很遗憾，你的二十多岁注定会倍感压力。比起那些随遇而安的人，你会觉得更加艰难，因为未知事物持续冲击着你的神经。但请明白：问题不在你，而是这个人生阶段使然。稍后我会带来好消息和解决方案，但首先需要探讨当不确定性将我们逼入死角或导致不作为时，可能引发的后果。

If this is you, your twenties are naturally and I'm sorry to say it, they are going to feel a lot more stressful. And they're gonna feel harder than someone who can naturally go with the flow because you are constantly being bombarded with unknowns. And it's not you. It's this decade. I promise you I'm gonna give you some good news and some solutions in just a second, but I do wanna talk about what can happen if we let uncertainty force us into a corner or force us into a place of inaction.

由于不确定性令人极度不适，它可能成为强大的适应不良动机（即驱使我们做出违背自身利益之事）。我们必须清醒认识到：当暂停行动进行选择时，应仔细辨别这个决定究竟符合最大利益，还是仅仅源于对某种（其实概率均等的）结果的恐惧。这种现象在二十多岁的表现可以列很长的清单，但我会简要说明——毕竟不想吓到你。

Because uncertainty is so uncomfortable, it can be a very powerful maladaptive motivator, I. E, something that motivates us to do things that are actually against our interests. And it's really important that we are aware of that so that when we pause and are choosing whether to act, whether not to act, we can carefully examine whether this is in our best interest or just because we are scared of an outcome that is no more or less likely than any other outcome. The ways this shows up in our twenties, could be a very long list, but I'm gonna keep it brief. I don't wanna scare you.

我只重点谈谈被这种情绪主宰生活的两大后果：首先，你会接受本不该承受的待遇，获得低于能力与付出的回报。正如先前所说，你宁愿选择已知的坏结果也不要未知的好可能。具体表现可能是：因害怕没有其他机会而接受不喜欢的毕业生offer；因恐惧无人搭讪就草率接受第一个在Hinge上聊天的人，还担忧达到某个年龄仍单身意味着什么。

I'm just gonna touch on two of the big consequences of letting this feeling rule your life. Firstly, you accept what you don't deserve and also less than what you're capable of and less than what you've actually worked for. It's like what I said before, a known bad outcome over an unknown good outcome is what you prefer. And how that might look like is accepting the first grad offer because you're scared of not getting another even though you don't really want the job. Accepting the first person who, I don't know, starts talking to you on hinge because you're scared that no one else will talk to you, and you're scared of what what it will mean to be single after a certain age.

你看中的第一间公寓就租下，试驾的第一辆车就买下。你反复去相同的地方，重复相同的旅程。因为即使不确定的结果可能很精彩，你也不愿冒险。请注意，我对此并无评判之意，我自己也这样做过。

You choose the first apartment you see, the first car you try out. You go to the same places, on the same trips, over and over again. Because an uncertain outcome, even if there is chance that it could be amazing, you don't wanna take that risk. Bear in mind, I have no judgment on this. I have done this myself.

这些基本上都是个人经历。这些都是我的切身感受，因为我和你们处境相同。二十多岁时未能拥抱不确定性的第二个后果，就是我们实际上完全不去行动。我们不选择任何工作，不选择任何伴侣——万一选错了怎么办？

All of that is basically anecdotal. All that is basically my lived experience because I am someone who's in this in the same boat with you. The second consequence of a failure to embrace uncertainty in our twenties is that we actually don't act at all. We don't choose any job. We don't choose any partner Because what if it's not the right one?

在第一种情境中，我们选择了第一个选项。而在这种情境下，我们什么都不选。完美主义和对不确定性的恐惧实际上是孪生姐妹，这点可能不会让你感到意外。它们高度一致。我个人认为完美主义本质上就是不确定性恐惧的另一种说法。

You know, in the first scenario, we chose the first thing. In the scenario, we don't choose anything at all. It probably won't surprise you that perfectionism and the fear of uncertainty are actually, in fact, sisters. They are they're incredibly aligned. In fact, I personally think that perfectionism is basically just the fear of uncertainty with a different name.

它像是这种感觉的一个分支流派。完美主义常伪装成雄心壮志、高标准或对自己的高期待，但本质上通常只是恐惧。是对未知的恐惧，对失败可能带来后果的恐惧，对走错一步的恐惧。与其说是追求完美，不如说是试图消除后悔的可能性。这正是它与不确定性紧密相关的原因。

It's like a subgenre of the feeling. Perfectionism often disguises itself as ambition or high standards or great expectations for yourself, but underneath, it's usually just fear. It's just a fear of the unknown, the fear of what failure might bring, the fear of making the wrong move. It is actually less about doing things perfectly and more about trying to eliminate the possibility of regret. That's what makes it a close relative of uncertainty.

两者都源于对结果未知的深度不适。可以把这种情况下的完美主义看作一种情感盔甲。如果我计划得足够周密，把决定拖延得足够久，把每件事都做得恰到好处，或许就能避免失望。但你真正在做的事，其实只是在试图逃避不确定性。2022年的一项研究通过观察学生群体，探究完美主义是否会让人在做决定时行动更迟缓。

They both come from a deep discomfort with not knowing how things will turn out. Think of perfectionism in this case as kind of like an emotional armor. If I just plan enough, if I delay the decision long enough, if I do everything just right, then maybe maybe I can avoid disappointment. But what you're really doing is just trying to outrun uncertainty. A 2022 study actually looked at a group of students to determine whether perfectionism meant people were less quick to act when it came to making a decision.

研究者让学生们完成问卷，根据完美主义倾向对学生进行排序——从最完美主义到最不完美主义。然后让学生们思考一系列'你更愿意'的选择题，比如'你更愿意选这个还是那个？X还是Y？'

They asked these students to complete a questionnaire, which would essentially rank each student based on perfectionist tendencies. So the most perfectionist down to the least perfectionist. And then they asked those students to consider a bunch of would you rather questions. So would you rather, I don't know, this or that? Would you rather x or y?

大概有50个这样的情景，研究者记录他们完成所有情景所需的时间。前25%的完美主义者完成练习所花的总时间，相当于剩下75%学生花费时间的总和。他们耗时如此之久，是因为坐在那里纠结想要做出完美选择。但机会不会总是等我们下定决心，重大决定也不会总允许你拖延。

There was about, I think, 50 of them, 50 scenarios, and they measured how long it took them to complete these entire range of scenarios. The top 25% of perfectionists took the same amount of time combined to complete the exercise as the remaining 75% of students. They took so much longer because they were sat there considering wanting to make the perfect choice. The thing is opportunities don't always wait for us to make up our minds. Big decisions aren't always going to let you delay them.

他们会找到下一个人，否则就会消失。二十多岁时很重要的一部分就是能够对那些令人恐惧的事情说‘是’。是的，我要尝试。是的。

They will find the next person, or they will disappear. A big part of our twenties is being able to say yes to that thing that feels really scary. Yes. I'm gonna try. Yes.

我不知道会发生什么，但我还是要去做。但当你面对最大的恐惧——对未知的恐惧时，这对你来说会困难得多。最后，我来给你带来一些好消息。这其实是你可以改变的，而且很多人都已证明自己能够克服它。

I don't know what's gonna happen. Let me just do it anyways. But when you are battling the fear of all fears, the fear of the unknown, that's gonna be a lot harder for you. Finally, I'm here to give you some good news. This is actually something you can change, and it's something that many people have proven to themselves that they are able to overcome.

所以我想具体解释如何做到这一点，包括如果你愿意，接下来五分钟就能做的一件事，它能让你更好地追逐梦想、把握机会、实现二十多岁的渴望。我们将在短暂休息后讨论所有这些以及更多内容。嘿，我是Gemma，有件特别的事要分享。我将首次主持虚拟直播视频播客。

So I wanna explain exactly how you can do this, including something you could literally do in the next five minutes if you wanted to that will allow you to better act on your dreams, on the opportunities, on the desires of our twenties. So we're gonna talk about all of that and so much more after this short break. Hey. It's Gemma, and I have something really special to share. I'm hosting my first ever virtual live video podcast.

不是预录的节目，不是精彩片段集锦，而是实时面对面的时刻，我们可以连接、欢笑、反思，说实话，无论你在世界何处，都能一起参与。如果你曾播放过《二十几岁的心理学》或《Mantra》并想‘真希望能和Gemma聊聊’，现在机会来了。我们将深入探讨二十多岁、三十多岁及以后生活中混乱而美丽的混沌。是的，你可以和我一起。还有实时聊天功能。

Not a prerecorded episode, not a highlight reel, but a real time face to face moment where we get to connect, laugh, reflect, and honestly, just kind of be in it together no matter where you are in the world. If you've ever hit play on an episode of the psychology of your twenties or mantra and thought, I really wish I could just talk to Gemma about this right now, this is your chance. We're diving into the messy, messy, beautiful chaos of your twenties, your thirties of life and beyond. And, yes, you get to be right there with me. There's a live chat so we can talk in real time.

之后，我将举办一个私人VIP派对，我们称之为‘内部圈子’，我会回答你们的问题并分享更私人的内容。时间是太平洋时间8月12日晚7点，悉尼或澳大利亚是8月13日中午12点。快标记日历、告诉朋友，现在就去pave.live购票吧。期待见到你们。

And afterwards, I'm hosting a private VIP party, my inner circle, we would call it, where I'll be answering your questions and getting even more personal. It's happening August 12 at 7PM Pacific time or August 13 at 12PM if you're in Sydney or Australia. So mark your calendar, tell your friends, grab your ticket now at pave.live. I can't wait to see you there.

嘿，我是Ed Helms，欢迎回到SNAFU，我的关于历史上最大失误的播客。新季每一集都会带来一个新的SNAFU故事。

Hey. It's Ed Helms, and welcome back to SNAFU, my podcast about history's greatest screw ups. On our new season, we're bringing you a new SNAFU every single episode.

32枚遗失的核武器？等等，停一下，什么？没错。

32 lost nuclear weapons? Wait. Stop. What? Yeah.

厄尼·沙克尔顿听起来像是个七十年代可靠的篮球运动员，那时他们还戴着护膝。没错，这将充满历史、欢笑和众多嘉宾。伟大的保罗·谢尔让我感觉很好。

Ernie Shackleton sounds like a solid seventies basketball player. Who still wore knee pads. Yes. It's gonna be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of guests. The great Paul Scheer made me feel good.

我心想，哇，安吉拉和珍娜，你们能来我太兴奋了。

I'm like, oh, wow. Angela and Jenna, I am so psyched you're here.

对你来说，这样温和地加入节目感觉如何？

What was that like for you to soft launch into the show?

抱歉，珍娜，今天该由我来提问。

Sorry, Jenna. I'll be asking the questions today.

我忘了我们是在录谁的播客了。

I forgot whose podcast we were doing.

尼克·克罗尔，希望这个故事精彩到能让你放下手中的三明治。那么让我们拭目以待吧。请在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或任何你获取播客的地方收听由艾德·赫尔姆斯主持的《混乱》第四季。

Nick Kroll, I hope this story is good enough to get you to toss that sandwich. So let's let's let's see how it goes. Listen to season four of snafu with Ed Helms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

安珀的镇上有种邪恶的疾病。你必须根除它。深入地下，将其切除。村庄遭受蹂躏，整户家庭已被吞噬。

There's a vile sickness in Amber's town. You must excise it. Dig into the deep earth and cut it out. The village is ravaged. Entire families have been consumed.

你知道从梦中醒来时，

You know how waking up from a dream,

熟悉的地方会变得完全陌生吗？

a familiar place can look completely alien?

所有人后退。

Get back, everyone.

我们继续吧。

Let's go next.

若你看见魔鬼寄居在他人体内，就必须挖出他的心脏，焚烧其躯体，将骨灰撒在这城镇最偏远的角落以儆效尤。

And if you see the devil walking around inside of another man, you must cut out the very heart of him, burn his body, and scatter the ashes in the furthest corner of this town as a warning.

由iHeart播客与亚伦·曼基的Grim and Mild联合呈现，这是《混乱之城》——一部设定在布里奇沃特音频宇宙中的全新虚构播客剧，主演朱尔斯·斯泰特和雷·怀斯。请在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何你获取播客的平台收听《混乱之城》。

From iHeart Podcasts and Grim and Mild from Aaron Mankey, this is Havoc Town, a new fiction podcast set in the Bridgewater audio universe, starring Jules State and Ray Wise. Listen to Havoc Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

魔鬼正行走在阿巴斯镇。

The devil walks in Abbasstown.

我是伊娃·朗格利亚。我是迈特戈·梅兹雷洪。

I'm Eva Longoria. And I'm Maitego Mezrejon.

在我们的播客《渴望历史》中，我们融合了两大最爱：美食与历史。

And on our podcast, Hungry for History, we mix two of our favorite things, food and history.

古雅典人曾将名字刻在牡蛎壳上投票放逐政客，他们称之为陶片放逐法。所以英语中'ostracize'（放逐）一词与'oyster'（牡蛎）有关。难以置信吧？

Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells, and they called these ostracon to vote politicians into exile. So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster. No

让陶片放逐法回归吧！因为我们节目氛围轻松，总有朋友来作客。

way. Bring back the ostracon. And because we've got a very kind of vibe on our show, friends always stop by.

几乎每条进入这片区域的通道

Pretty much every entry into this side

都是通过这个星球的

of the planet was through the

墨西哥当时的进步程度真让我震惊。他们当时已经拥有

It blows me away how progressive Mexico was in this in this moment. They had

土地改革。他们拥有劳动权。他们享有教育权。

land reform. They had labor rights. They had education rights.

芥菜籽对古埃及人来说极为珍贵，他们常将其放入墓中以备来世之用。

Mustard seeds were so valuable to the ancient Egyptians that they used to place them in their tombs for the afterlife.

请收听《渴望历史》作为My Cultura播客网络的一部分，可在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何您获取播客的地方收听。

Listen to Hungry for History as part of the My Cultura Podcast Network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

欢迎来到《解码女性健康》。我是伊丽莎白·波因特医生，纽约市阿德里亚健康研究所女性健康与妇科主任。在本节目中，我将与顶尖研究人员和临床医生对话，解答你们迫切的问题，并将关于女性健康及中年生活的信息直接传递给你们。

Welcome to Decoding Women's Health. I'm Doctor. Elizabeth Poynter, Chair of Women's Health and Gynecology at the Adria Health Institute in New York City. On this show, I'll be talking to top researchers and top clinicians, asking them your burning questions and bringing that information about women's health and midlife directly to you.

百分之百的女性都会经历更年期。这对我们的生活质量可能是个巨大挑战。但即便这是自然过程，我们为何要默默忍受？

A hundred percent of women go through menopause. It can be such a struggle for our quality of life. But even if it's natural, why should we suffer through it?

人们常提到的症状包括忘性大——‘我以前从不会忘记事情’。他们一方面担心自己患上了痴呆症，另一方面又在怀疑‘我是不是有注意力缺陷多动障碍？’

The types of symptoms that people talk about is forgetting everything, I never used to forget things. They're concerned that one, they have dementia, and the other one is do I have ADHD?

关于大麻和大麻素，在改善睡眠、减轻疼痛、提升情绪以及提高日常生活质量方面，存在着前所未有的潜力。请收听《解码女性健康》

There is unprecedented promise with regard to cannabis and cannabinoids to sleep better, to have less pain, to have better mood and also to have better day to day life. Listen to Decoding Women's

健康与伊丽莎白·波因特医生同行，在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或您当前收听的任何平台。

Health with Doctor. Elizabeth Poynter on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you're listening now.

大家好！这里是《陷阱护士》播客的Snacks，整个十月，我们将每周为您带来恐怖盛宴。

What's up, everybody? This is Snacks from the Trap Nurse podcast, and we're bringing you the horror every week, all October long.

本月开篇，我将为您呈现从《生化危机》到《寂静岭》等最令人毛骨悚然的恐怖游戏。我和托尼将重启《求生之路2》的Fireteam模式，带您重温经典之作。

Kicking off this month, I'll be bringing you all my greatest inducing horror games from Resident Evil to Silvert Hill. Me and Tony bringing back Fireteam on Left four Dead two. And we just gonna be going over some of the greats.

十月我们还将讨论最爱的恐怖片和万圣节电影，并探讨为何黑人角色总是最先领便当。

Also in October, we'll be talking about our favorite horror and Halloween movie and figure out why black people always gotta die first.

暗影圣物所欢迎任何胆敢窥探其珍奇的愚勇之士。但请注意：所有交易概不退换。

The Umbral reliquary invites any and all fool, brave enough to peruse its many curiosities. But take heed, all sales are final.

每周恐怖支线任务由本人亲自撰写并讲述，包含完整剧集朗读和评论特辑。

Weekly horror side quest written and narrated by yours truly with a full episode read and a commentary special.

最终我们将以恐怖电影大逃杀作为压轴：杰森对决弗莱迪，迈克尔·迈尔斯对战那个长着小舌头的怪物。十月，我们以万圣节的方式狂欢。请在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何播客平台收听Black Effect播客网络的《陷阱护士》节目。

And we will cap it off with horror movie battle royale. Jason versus Freddie. Michael Myers versus the a thing with the little tongue monster. October, we're doing it Halloween style. Listen to the TraveNurse podcast from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

好的，我们继续讨论二十多岁时的迷茫感。幸运的是，我们并非第一代有这种感受的人，也不会是最后一代。这其实是好消息，因为这意味着已有许多人针对这种感受提出了绝妙的应对方法，帮助他们度过了这段不适期，希望这些方法也能帮到你。应对二十多岁迷茫感最重要的事——这期节目我一直在暗示——就是为它赋予意义，因为这能满足我们对理由、价值和存在意义的深层渴望。

Okay. So we are back talking about uncertainty in our twenties. And luckily for us, we are actually not the first generation to feel this way nor will we be the last. And that's good news because it means that there are a lot of people who have come up with some really amazing approaches to this feeling that helped get them through this period of discomfort and which will hopefully help you as well. The biggest thing we can do for our uncertainty in our twenties, and I been hinting at this for the entire episode, is to basically assign it a purpose because that satisfies our deeper desire for a reason, a meaning, and kind of just a sense of why.

为什么会这样？你为迷茫赋予的意义可以是：视其为学习机会，看作成人礼，视为向新事物敞开心扉的标志（虽然新事物令人畏惧），或是学会臣服接纳生活本相的契机。

Why is this happening? The purpose you assign to your uncertainty, it could be that you see this as a learning opportunity. It could be that you view uncertainty as a rite of passage. It could be that uncertainty is a sign that you're opening yourself up to new things, which are scary. It could be a call to surrender and just to accept life as it is.

这可以是种精神修行，也可以说迷茫本就是精彩故事的必备元素——毕竟没有迷茫哪来好故事？无论哪种解释能让你觉得迷茫有意义，就紧紧抓住它。每当被这种情绪淹没时，提醒自己：

It could be a real spiritual thing. It could be that uncertainty just makes for a really good story. And you value a good story, you can't have one without uncertainty. Whatever it is, whatever makes uncertainty feel meaningful to you, hone in on that. Anytime you feel overwhelmed by the feeling, remind yourself, okay.

但这种感受有其目的和意义。就我个人而言，我把迷茫视为个人成长的信号，或者通俗地说——我即将升级了。每次感到害怕、迷失或不确定时，都预示着地平线那端有我看不见的新事物即将到来，仿佛在向我预示重大转变的来临。

But this has a purpose. This has a meaning. For me, I personally think of uncertainty as a sign that I am about to really grow as a person, and for lack of a better word, I'm about to level up. Every time I have ever felt scared, lost, uncertain, it has always been the beginning of something just over the horizon that I haven't been able to see yet. Like, it always signals to me that, like, something really big is about to come.

正因如此，当我明白这种感受的意义后，几乎会为此感到兴奋。我会莫名雀跃，准备好迎接惊喜，感觉自己在为即将发生的任何事做准备。这种方法有效是因为：当我们为迷茫设定角色时，就建立了接纳它的认知框架，允许它存在的同时能专注真正重要的事——我们给那个恼人的声音分配了工作。

That way now, now that I know that's its purpose, I actually almost get excited when I'm feeling that way. I feel like I get kind of giddy. I'm, like, ready to be surprised, and I really feel like I'm in preparation mode for whatever is about to happen next. The reason this works is because when we assign a role to our uncertainty, this actually gives us a cognitive framework through which we can accept it, through which we can just let it exist and actually focus on what we need to focus on. We give the annoying voice a job.

就像对付吵闹的小孩（不知道你带过孩子没），你可以让他们整理钢笔、给玩偶分类或者捡米粒什么的。总之给那个烦人的声音找点事做，你才能专心工作。第二种直面迷茫的方法是：寻找那些同样经历过巨大迷茫并最终走出来的真实故事，而非只看那些看似一帆风顺的成功案例。

It's like when a toddler I don't know if you've been around kids a lot, but when, like, a toddler or a child is being really annoying, so you tell them they have to rearrange all the pens or they have to divide up all their dolls or pick up something like rice. I don't know. You give them a job so you can get to work. You, like, you give the annoying voice somewhere someone else to talk to or something else to do. The second way to really confront your uncertainty is also to look for stories of people who didn't have it all figured out or whom dealt with supreme uncertainty and came out the other side rather than just looking for people who seem like a natural a to b success story.

如今我们看到的似乎都是天生赢家的故事。你会误以为那些你崇拜的人从未像你这样挣扎过——这是错的，是天大的谎言，是精心编织的迷思。

The natural success stories are all we seem to see these days. So you would think that most people who you admire have never struggled the way that you do and that you have. That's false. It's a huge lie. It's a big myth.

当你开始收集这些故事时，你会发现几乎每个有所成就的人都经历过迷茫期。比如我最近加入名单的焦点人物多琦，她在2020年（其实也就五年前）发布过YouTube视频，讲述自己被解雇的经历。视频里她说'明天我要挨个敲工作室的门，看看能不能争取到实习机会'。而如今她刚拿了格莱美奖。

When you start collecting these stories, you will find that almost every single person who's made something of themselves has an uncertainty story. Dochi, for example, that's one I've recently added to my list, the woman of the hour. She posted a YouTube video back in 2020, only, like, five years ago about how she got fired from her job. And in it, she's like, tomorrow, I'm just gonna door knock at a bunch of studios and just see if they will give me an internship. She just won a Grammy.

五年前她完全不知道未来在哪里，但最终找到了正确方向，因为她选择了主动出击。Spanx创始人也是我名单上的一员，她曾经挨家挨户推销传真机，如今掌管着价值十亿美元的企业。史蒂芬·金是另一个例子。

Five years ago, she was completely unsure of where she was gonna end up, and she ended up in the right place because she lent into it. The founder of Spanx, she's another one on my list. She used to sell fax machine machines like door to door. Now she runs a billion dollar industry. Stephen King, he's another one.

他那本后来成为经典cult神作的《魔女嘉莉》初稿，在被退稿30次后被他直接扔进了垃圾桶，而现在这本书已是文化符号。我还会想到我母亲——她是我经常浮现脑海的案例。当年她因成绩太差被大学开除，校方基本就是勒令退学。

His, like, draft for his book Carrie, which is now a cult classic, a favorite of so many, he literally threw that manuscript in the trash after it was rejected 30 times, and that book is a cultural icon. I even think of my mom. Like, the my mom is the one that often comes to mind for me. You know, she was kicked out of university because she got such poorly bad grades. They basically expelled her.

后来她休学一年去旅行，并不清楚自己想要什么。回来后换了专业，以顶尖成绩毕业。如今她已是叱咤商界的女强人。

And then she took a year off to travel. She didn't really know what she wanted to do. She came back. She did something different, and she graduated with a top job. And now she's, like, this incredibly powerful, successful girl boss.

这些人都有一个至关重要的共同点：在通往成功的路上，在抵达终点的过程中，他们都经历过全然迷茫的时刻，只能选择相信自己，坚信自己具备突破困境的能力。当你开始寻找这类故事，你会发现它们无处不在。终有一天，你也会拥有属于自己的版本——关于你如何战胜迷茫，以及事后回想时那条其实一直很清晰的道路。还有件小事可以做，虽然听起来微不足道甚至有点傻，你可能想跳过它。

All these people anew have something very important in common. In their journey to success and to wherever they ended up, there were moments when they had absolutely no idea what was next, and they just had to bet on themselves, and they just had to trust that they were capable. And once you start searching for these stories, you will see them everywhere. You will see them constantly until one day you'll have your own version of this story, your own version of how you overcame uncertainty, how in hindsight, the path was actually so clear the entire time. Another small thing you can do, and it's gonna sound so minuscule and silly, you might be tempted to skip it.

但请别跳过。我希望你创建一份代表自我的歌单，在感到不安或困惑时播放，让它带你回归本心。即便不能消除不确定性，至少能缓解那种不适与陌生的感受。这也是个有趣的自我提醒方式——通过音乐来铭记你是谁、想成为怎样的人、核心价值观是什么。这些歌曲就像映照你内心的镜子，能带来一种特别而美好的熟悉感。

Please don't. I want you to make a playlist that you feel represents yourself and play it whenever you feel uncomfortable or confused as a way to really just bring yourself back and center yourself. Even if it doesn't necessarily help you feel less uncertain, it can just help you with the general feelings of discomfort and strangeness that you may be having. And just as, like, a fun thing to do, a fun thing to do to remind yourself of who you are, of who you wanna be, of what your core values are, all through music. These songs reflect how you see yourself back at you, and that is a very special, familiar, beautiful feeling.

德克萨斯州有位研究员在2014年发表过精彩论文，探讨音乐如何参与身份构建，并通过成为'试金石'来增强自我信任——它代表着我们既往克服的挑战、体验的欢愉。我们选择的音乐确实反映价值观，诉说着对自我的认知。所以当你在外界迷失、不知归途时，音乐就像美丽的锚点。我自己就有这样的歌单。

There's actually this brilliant 2014 paper from a researcher in Texas that talks about how music contributes to the formation of our identity and can help us trust ourselves more because it acts as a touchstone when we feel challenged. It represents all the times we have previously overcome challenges, all the times we previously experienced joy. And the music we choose really does reflect our values and says something about how we see ourselves. And so when you're kind of externally lost and don't really know who you are and can't really find your way back, music is this, like, beautiful anchor. You know, I have a playlist like this.

这个播放列表名为《如果Gemma是一个播放列表》。我前几天还在听它，里面的歌曲从2016年一直到上周。这真是见证我蜕变的绝美方式，能清晰地看到生命中的不同章节及其间发生的故事，音乐唤醒了所有回忆，也让我看到自己走了多远。你现在只需花五分钟就能为自己制作一个，这是个有趣的练习。

The playlist is called If Gemma Was a Playlist. And I was listening to it literally the other day, and it has songs from 2,016 all the way up to last week. And it's really a beautiful way to see how I have transformed, to be able to categorically see different chapters in my life and what was happening during them, like and the music brings back all those memories and also just to see how far I've come. And so it's something you can literally take five minutes, do for yourself right now. It's a fun exercise.

我向你保证，在这个疯狂混乱的时期，它能帮你稳住心绪。从更宏观角度看，对抗不确定性的最佳解药就是：尝试。尝试任何事。选择你感兴趣的事物去精通。

I promise you, it will help you ground yourself during this, like, crazy chaotic period. On a much larger scale, the biggest antidote for uncertainty is really just this. Just try something. Try anything. Choose something that interests you to get good at.

当某件事不再适合你时，就换别的。我们必须摒弃这种观念：人生每个决定都必须环环相扣，必须要有按部就班的人生计划。你的人生不是食谱，不是在烤蛋糕，也不是在发酵酸面团。

And when that thing stops serving you, choose something else. We have to let go of this idea that every decision you make in life has to naturally flow into the next and the next and the next and that you have to have some step by step plan that you can follow for your life. Your life is not a recipe. You're not making a cake. You're not cooking a sourdough.

这是一系列将你带往未知之境的实验。当你允许自己尝试时，就真正打破了'必须知道答案'的循环，摆脱了'我做得对吗？这是最佳选择吗？'的反复纠结。

Like, it's a series of experiments that take you to different places that you didn't even know you were going to get to. And when you give yourself permission to just try, you really break this cycle of needing to know. You break this cycle of needing to have all the answers. And you move as well from that rumination spiral of, am I doing the right thing? Is this the best choice?

你只需明白：只要采取行动，就是在做正确选择。即使是不完美的行动，甚至是错误选择，也远比不作为更好。行动还为你提供数据、经验和故事。

To just knowing that if you're taking action and if you're doing something, you are making the right choice. Even imperfect action, even the wrong choice is still a better choice than not doing anything at all. And it also gives you data. It gives you experience. It gives you stories.

如果你在思考'该选哪个方向'——尤其当你是个兴趣广泛、充满激情抱负的人——真正该问自己的是：不做哪件事会让我最失望？二十年后最后悔没做什么？

A question to really ask yourself as well if you're kind of thinking, okay. That's great. But which direction should I choose, especially if you're someone who has a lot of hobbies and interests and passions and ambitions? The question to ask yourself is just, what would make me most disappointed if I didn't do this? What would I be most regretful around not doing in twenty years' time?

这种思维方式让你计算不行动的代价，而非困在'行动会失去什么'的漩涡里。这让我想起一句话：你可以绕路百万次仍比不敢上车的人更快到达目的地。这就是我今天想传达的理念：二十多岁的不确定性不可避免，但它深刻表明你正在拓展、成长，迈向未曾体验的新天地。

This mentally makes you kind of compute how much you have to lose by not acting rather than getting you stuck in this spiral of how much you have to lose by acting. It reminds me of this quote. You could take a million detours to your destination and still get there faster than someone who never got in the car. And that's the idea I really wanna leave you with today. Uncertainty in our twenties is inevitable, but it's actually a really profound sign that you're expanding and you are growing and you are reaching new spaces you haven't yet experienced.

这是件好事。恭喜你。如果你感到不确定，那是个美好的信号，我希望能为你尝试并推动自己进入新领域而献上所有掌声。我知道这让人不适，但我向你保证，这种不适有其你尚未看到的目的。拥抱它吧。

That's a good thing. Like, congratulations. If you are feeling uncertain, that is such a beautiful sign, and I wish I could give you all the applause for just trying and pushing yourself into new places and spaces. I know it feels uncomfortable, but I promise you that this discomfort has a purpose that you cannot yet see. Lean into it.

在等待时给它赋予一个目的，行动起来，做任何事，哪怕是小事。我认为这是避免日后更强烈不适的绝佳方案——那种回望人生时发现自己因恐惧未知而从未行动的懊悔。未知是我们永远必须与之共存的，而摆脱未知的唯一方法就是创造已知，创造一个你真正享受且适合你的现实。而这只能通过行动实现。所以这是个看似简单却深奥的信息，作为本集结尾值得深思。

Assign it a purpose while you're waiting, and just act, do anything even if it's small things. I think that that's a great solution for avoiding a worse discomfort of looking back at your life and realizing that you never did anything because you were scared of the unknown when the unknown is something that we always have to exist side by side with. And the only way to escape the unknown is to create a known, is to create a reality that you do really enjoy and that works for you. And the only way you can do that is through action. So that's a rather simple message, but also deeply complex message if you think about it to end the episode with.

我只希望这能给你带来慰藉——你并非独自经历这一切，而我完全相信事情会为你好转。一定会好转的。我现在就能向你保证。非常感谢你的收听。

I just hope that it brings you a sense of comfort that you're not the only one going through it, and that I totally know it's gonna work out for you. It's totally gonna work out for you. I know that. I can give you that promise right now. So thank you so much for listening.

如果你听到这里，请在评论区留下代表你生活感受的emoji，表达你此刻对不确定性的身体感受。这样我就知道你是忠实听众之一。无论你在YouTube、Spotify还是Apple等平台收听，请务必关注或订阅。若有意愿，给我们五星好评，这真的能帮助节目成长并触达新听众——那些20岁以上的优秀群体。同时，如果你想参与未来节目，请关注我们的Instagram账号@thatpsychologypodcast。私信我节目建议、问题或困境，你甚至可能像本期嘉宾一样被选中参与节目。

If you have made it this far, let's leave a little emoji in the comments below that represents how you're feeling about your life, how uncertainty feels in your body right now. Just so I know if you've made it this far, if you're one of the loyal listeners, make sure that you are following along or subscribed wherever you are listening on YouTube, on Spotify, Apple, whatever one, and give us a five star review if you feel called to do so. It really does help the show grow and reach new audiences and new fantastic, wonderful 20 and older. Also, sure you're following us on Instagram at that psychology podcast if you wanna be part of future episodes. If you wanna DM me episode suggestions, if you have questions, dilemmas, you may even be able to be featured in an episode just like this one.

那就来Instagram找我吧。下次见之前，请保持安全，善待自己，尤其在面对不确定性时更要温柔。我们很快会再聊。

So follow me over there. And until next time, stay safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself, especially in the face of uncertainty. We will talk very, very soon.

大家好，我是艾德·赫尔姆斯，欢迎回到《SNAFU》——我的历史重大失误播客。新季每期都将带来一个全新搞砸事件。

Hey. It's Ed Helms, and welcome back to SNAFU, my podcast about history's greatest screw ups. On our new season, we're bringing you a new SNAFU every single episode.

32枚遗失的核武器？你会想：等等，停一下，什么？没错。

32 lost nuclear weapons? You're like, wait. Stop. What? Yeah.

厄尼·沙克尔顿听起来像是个七十年代坚如磐石的篮球运动员，那时他们还戴着护膝。没错，这将充满历史、欢笑和众多嘉宾。伟大的保罗·希尔让我感觉棒极了。

Ernie Shackleton sounds like a solid seventies basketball player. Who still wore knee pads. Yes. It's gonna be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of guests. The great Paul Scheer made me feel good.

我心想，哇哦，安吉拉和珍娜，你们能来我太兴奋了。

I'm like, oh, wow. Angela and Jenna, I am so psyched you're here.

对你来说，这样温和地加入节目是什么感觉？

What was that like for you to soft launch into the show?

抱歉珍娜，今天该由我来提问。

Sorry, Jenna. I'll be asking the questions today.

我忘了我们正在录谁的播客。

I forgot whose podcast we were doing.

尼克·克罗尔，希望这个故事精彩到能让你扔掉手里的三明治。让我们拭目以待吧。在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何你获取播客的地方收听艾德·赫尔姆斯主持的《混乱》第四季。

Nick Kroll, I hope this story is good enough to get you to toss that sandwich. So let's let's let's see how it goes. Listen to season four of Snafu with Ed Helms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

阿巴斯镇染上了一种恶疾。你必须根除它。深入地下，将其彻底铲除。村庄正遭受蹂躏，整户整户的家庭已被吞噬。

There's a vile sickness in Abbas Town. You must excise it. Dig into the deep earth and cut it out. The village is ravaged. Entire families have been consumed.

你知道从梦中醒来时，

You know how waking up from a dream,

一个熟悉的地方会变得完全陌生？大家退后。

a familiar place can look completely alien? Get back, everyone.

我们去跳舞吧。

Let's go dance.

若你看见魔鬼在他人视线中游荡，必须挖出其心脏，焚烧其躯体，并将骨灰撒在这座城镇最远的角落以示警告。

And if you see the devil walking around in sight of another man, you must cut out the very heart of him, burn his body, and scatter the ashes in the furthest corner of this town as a warning.

这里是iHeart播客与亚伦·曼基的Grim and Mild联合呈现的《混乱小镇》，一部设定在布里奇沃特音频宇宙中的全新虚构播客，由朱尔斯·斯泰特和雷·怀斯主演。请在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何你获取播客的平台收听《混乱小镇》。

From iHeart Podcasts and Grim and Mild from Aaron Mankey, this is Havoc Town, a new fiction podcast set in the Bridgewater audio universe, starring Jules State and Ray Wise. Listen to Havoc Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

魔鬼行走于阿巴斯镇。

The devil walks in Abbasstown.

大家好，我是《陷阱护士》播客的零食，整个十月，我们每周都会为你带来恐怖故事。

What's up, everybody? This is Snacks from the trap nurse podcast, and we're bringing you the horror every week, all October long.

本月伊始，我将为大家带来从《生化危机》到《寂静岭》等一系列最令人毛骨悚然的恐怖游戏。我和托尼将重启《求生之路2》的Fireteam模式，并回顾其中的经典内容。

Kicking off this month, I'll be bringing you all my greatest fear inducing horror games from Resident Evil to Silvered Hill. Me and Tony bringing back Fireteam on Left four Dead two. And we just gonna be going over some of the greats.

同样在十月，我们将讨论最爱的恐怖片和万圣节电影，并探讨为何黑人角色总是最先领便当。

Also in October, we'll be talking about our favorite horror and Halloween movie and figuring out why black people always gotta die first.

暗影圣物所欢迎任何胆敢窥探其众多奇珍异宝的愚勇之徒。但切记：所有交易概不退换。

The Umbral reliquary invites any and all fool, brave enough to peruse its many curiosities. But take heed, all sales are final.

每周恐怖支线任务由本人亲自撰写并讲述，包含完整剧集朗读及评论特辑。

Weekly horror side quest written and narrated by yours truly with a full episode read and a commentary special.

最后我们将以恐怖电影大逃杀作为压轴——杰森对决弗莱迪、麦克尔·迈尔斯对决那个长着小舌头怪物的异形。十月，我们要过出万圣节的味道。欢迎收听Black Effect播客网络的《旅行护士》播客，在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何你获取播客的平台均可订阅。

And we will cap it off with horror movie battle royale. Jason versus Freddie. Michael Myers versus the aide thing with the little tongue monster. October, we're doing it Halloween style. Listen to the Trave Nurse podcast from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

欢迎收听《解码女性健康》。我是伊丽莎白·波因特医生，纽约市阿德里亚健康研究院女性健康与妇科主任。在本节目中，我将对话顶尖研究者和临床医师，解答你们最关切的问题，将关于女性健康与中年期的前沿资讯直接传递给您。

Welcome to Decoding Women's Health. I'm doctor Elizabeth Poynter, Chair of Women's Health and Gynecology at the Adria Health Institute in New York City. On this show, I'll be talking to top researchers and top clinicians, asking them your burning questions and bringing that information about women's health and midlife directly to you.

百分之百的女性都会经历更年期。这严重影响我们的生活质量，但即便它是自然过程，我们为何要默默忍受？

A hundred percent of women go through menopause. It can be such a struggle for our quality of life, but even if it's natural, why should we suffer through it?

人们常提到的症状类型是遗忘一切。我以前从不会忘记事情。他们一方面担心自己患有痴呆症，另一方面又在想我是否患有注意力缺陷多动症（ADHD）？

The types of symptoms that people talk about is forgetting everything. I never used to forget things. They're concerned that one, they have dementia and the other one is do I have ADHD?

大麻和大麻素在改善睡眠、减轻疼痛、提升情绪以及提高日常生活质量方面展现出前所未有的潜力。

There is unprecedented promise with regard to cannabis and cannabinoids to sleep better, to have less pain, to have better mood and also to have better day to day life.

请在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或您当前使用的任何平台收听《解码女性健康》节目，由Elizabeth Poynter医生主讲。

Listen to Decoding Women's Health with Doctor. Elizabeth Poynter on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening now.

我是伊娃·朗格利亚。我是梅特·戈麦斯·约翰。

I'm Eva Longoria. And I'm Mayte Gomez Johann.

在我们的播客《渴望历史》中，我们融合了两大最爱：美食与历史。

And on our podcast, Hungry for History, we mix two of our favorite things, food and history.

古雅典人曾将名字刻在牡蛎壳上进行投票，他们称这些贝壳为‘陶片’，用于表决是否放逐政客。所以我们今天使用的‘ostracized（排斥）’一词与‘oyster（牡蛎）’有关。

Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells, and they called these ostracon to vote politicians into exile. So our word ostracized is related to the word oyster.

真的吗？让陶片表决回归吧。因为我们节目氛围轻松，总有朋友来做客。

No way. Bring back the Ostracon. And because we've got a very kind of vibe on our show, friends always stop by.

几乎所有的入口都在这一侧

Pretty much every entry into this side

进入这个星球的通道都是通过墨西哥湾。不，是美国人。

of the planet was through El Golfo de Mexico. No. The American.

不，是美国人。

No. The American.

墨西哥湾。Continuana Cienbasi将永远延续下去。

Golfo de Mexico. Continuana Cienbasi forever and ever.

墨西哥在这一刻的进步程度让我震惊。

It blows me away how progressive Mexico was in this in this moment.

他们进行了土地改革，确立了劳工权利，还保障了教育权利。

They had land reform. They had labor rights. They had education rights.

芥菜籽对古埃及人来说非常珍贵，他们常将其放入墓中以备来世之用。

Mustard seeds were so valuable to the ancient Egyptians that they used to place them in their tombs for the afterlife.

收听《历史饥渴》播客，该节目隶属于播客网络，可在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或您获取播客的任何平台找到。

Listen to hungry for history as part of the podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

大家好，我是美国甜心约翰尼·诺克斯维尔。我要向大家介绍我的新真实犯罪播客《清白乡巴佬劫案》，由Smartless Media、Campsite Media和Big Money Players联合出品。这是一个关于一群高能笨蛋如何意外完成美国第三大现金劫案的疯狂故事。

Hello. America's sweetheart Johnny Knoxville here. I wanna tell you about my new true crime podcast, Crimeless Hillbilly Heist from smartless media, campsite media, and big money players. It's a wild tale about a gang of high functioning nitwits who somehow pulled off America's third largest cash heist.

有点像罗宾汉，只不过

Kinda like Robin Hood except for

少了劫富济贫的情节

the part where he steals from the rich and gives

我可没那么慷慨。

to the poor. I'm not that generous.

这几乎是个鼓舞人心的真实故事，献给所有曾志存高远却搞砸了落地的人。

It's a damn near inspiring true story for anyone out there who's ever shot for the moon then just totally muffed up the landing.

他们偷了1700万美元，却连张帮他逃跑的车票都没买。

They stole $17,000,000 and had not bought a ticket to help him escape.

所以我们是在说，

So we're saying like,

哦天啊。

oh god.

我们该怎么办？我们该怎么办？

What do we do? What do we do?

那太蠢了。大家可别学我。

That was dumb. People do not follow my example.

请在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何你获取播客的平台收听《无犯罪：乡巴佬劫案》。

Listen to Crimeless, Hillbilly Heist on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

大家好，我是艾德·赫尔姆斯，《一团糟》的主持人，这档播客讲述历史上最严重的失误。新一季节目里，每期都会带来一个全新的历史大乌龙。

Hey. It's Ed Helms, host of SNAFU, my podcast about history's greatest screw ups. On our new season, we're bringing you a new SNAFU every single episode.

32枚遗失的核武器？等等。停一下。什么？

32 lost nuclear weapons? You're wait. Stop. What?

没错。这将充满历史、欢笑和众多精彩嘉宾。保罗·谢尔、安吉拉和珍娜、尼克·克罗尔、乔丹·克莱珀。在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或任何你获取播客的地方收听由艾德·赫尔姆斯主持的《混乱局面》第四季。

Yeah. It's gonna be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of fabulous guests. Paul Scheer, Angela and Jenna, Nick Kroll, Jordan Klepper. Listen to season four of snafu with Ed Helms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

两位富有的美国年轻人搬到哥斯达黎加丛林重新开始，但其中一人最终丧命，另一人则三次因谋杀受审。故事始于一个梦想、一片自然保护区和一栋壮观的新家。但渐渐地

Two rich young Americans move to the Costa Rican jungle to start over, but one of them will end up dead and the other tried for murder three times. It starts with a dream, a nature reserve, and spectacular new home. But little by little

他们失控了。他们真的疯了。

They lose it. They actually lose it.

他们差不多是疯了。

They sort of went nuts.

直到某个夜晚，一切彻底失控。在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或任何你获取播客的地方收听《天堂里的地狱》。

Until one night, everything spins out of control. Listen to hell in heaven on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

安珀镇染上了邪恶的瘟疫。你必须根除它。深入地下，将其彻底铲除。

There's a vile sickness in Amber's Town. You must excise it. Dig into the deep earth and cut it out.

来自iHeart Podcasts和亚伦·曼基的Grim and Mild，这是《灾祸小镇》——一部设定在布里奇沃特音频宇宙中的全新虚构播客剧，由朱尔斯·斯泰特和雷·怀斯主演。在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或任何你获取播客的地方收听《灾祸小镇》。

From iHeart Podcasts and Grim and Mild from Aaron Mankey, this is Havoc Town, a new fiction podcast set in the Bridgewater audio universe, starring Jules State and Ray Wise. Listen to Havoc Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

我是安娜·奥尔蒂斯。

It's Ana Ortiz.

我是马克·因德利卡多。

And I'm Mark Indelicado.

你可能认识我们饰演的希尔达

You might know us as Hilda

和贾斯汀，来自《丑女贝蒂》。

And Justin. From Ugly Betty.

欢迎收听我们的新播客《万岁贝蒂》。

Welcome to our new podcast, Viva Betty.

太棒了！我们要从头到尾重温这部剧集。

Yay. We're rewatching the series from start to finish.

还会采访标志性嘉宾，比如贝蒂本人——亚美莉卡·费雷拉。

And talking to iconic guests like Betty herself, America Ferrera.

就在那一刻，眼镜戴上了

There was this moment when the glasses went on

感觉就像是，这就是我们的贝蒂。

and it was like, this is our Betty.

在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或任何你获取播客的地方收听《Viva Betty》。

Listen to Viva Betty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

这是iHeart出品的播客节目。

This is an iHeart podcast.