328. 如何在20多岁时好好旅行 ft. 亨利·丁博士

这是一档iHeart播客节目。

This is an iHeart podcast.

我男友的教授过于热情，现在我非常怀疑。等一下，山姆。

My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Wait a minute, Sam.

也许她男朋友只是想赚点额外学分。

Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit.

达科塔，幸运的是，现在是《Okay Storytime》播客的返校周特辑，我们很快就能知道答案。这位听众写道：我男友最近总和他年轻的教授待在一起。他觉得没问题，但我不信任她。现在他坚持要我们互相认识，可我只想让她消失。

Well, Dakota, luckily, it's back to school week on the Okay Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend's been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone.

等等，这难道不违反学校规定吗？太不合适了。

Hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That seems inappropriate.

想知道结局如何，请收听iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或其他平台上的《Okay Storytime》播客。

Maybe find out how it ends by listening to the Okay Storytime podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

大家好，欢迎回到《二十几岁的心理学》。这档播客探讨二十多岁面临的重大人生转变及其心理意义。大家好，欢迎回到节目，欢迎回到播客。

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the psychology of your twenties. The podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they mean for our psychology. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast.

新老听众们，无论你们身在何处，能再次与你们共度这期特别节目，剖析二十几岁的心理世界，真是令人欣喜。今天我们要讨论一个我被频繁问及的话题——我认为这确实是定义我们二十多岁的核心体验之一，尤其对本播客的许多听众而言。那就是旅行。环游世界、间隔年、海外学期、公路旅行、欧洲之夏、观光、独自旅行...这些都在我们二十多岁时的愿望清单上，因为这个十年对许多人而言的主题正是探索、拓展、成长，以及尽可能多地体验，而旅行完美契合了这些需求。

New listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world, it is just a delight to have you back here for another episode, for a special episode as we break down the psychology of our twenties. So today, we're talking about a subject that I get asked about a whole lot and that I think actually is one of those core experiences that really defines our twenties, especially for a lot of people who listen to this podcast. It's travel. Traveling the world, gap years, semesters abroad, road trips, Euro summers, sightseeing, solo traveling. These are all things that are on, I would say, a lot of our bucket list for those of us in our twenties because I think a real theme for this decade for many of us is exploration and expansion and growth and having as many experiences as possible and travel just fits so neatly into that.

旅行在这个人生阶段有着磁石般的吸引力。心理学家常将二十多岁称为新体验的黄金发展期——那些打破常规、拓宽世界观的机会。他们说这个时期的影响最为深远。所以如果你在这个十年里有周游世界或只是去邻镇的机会，请务必抓住，因为除了享受乐趣，你还将获益良多。在我们试图认清自我、规划职业、选择生活方式的阶段，旅行能让我们脱离熟悉环境，以不同视角看世界，时而感到不适却充满挑战，让我们意识到世界的广袤无垠。

Travel just has such a magnetic pull during this chapter of our life. You know, psychologists often call our twenties like a developmental sweet spot for new experiences and for experiences that are gonna disrupt our routine and expand our worldview. They say that this period is when those opportunities are most formative. So if you have the opportunity to travel and to see the world or just to go to the next town over during this decade, you should absolutely take it because you're going to see so much benefit from something that is also just probably very very enjoyable. You know, during this time when we are trying to figure out who we are, we're trying to figure out our career, we're trying to figure out what kind of life we wanna lead, travel really helps us in this process because it pulls us out of familiar contexts and it makes us see the world differently and it makes us, you know, at times uncomfortable and it challenges us and it makes us see that the world is large and expansive.

这正是我们二十多岁时需要建立的认知——为了给自己打开机遇之门，探索各种可能性。日常生活中，我们被相同的文化规范、生活节奏和人际关系包围。而旅行时，无论是移居新城市还是探访异国，我们剥离了所有常态。在没有熟悉参照物的环境中，我们被迫内省，自主决定自己的能力和行为方式。此外，人们热爱这个阶段的旅行不仅因为乐趣，更因为它创造了值得传颂的精彩故事——无论是讲给子孙，还是养老院里的老友们听。

And that's really what we need to believe in our twenties in order to, I guess, open doors for ourselves, in order to explore all the different possibilities. You know, in everyday life, we're surrounded by all the same things, the same cultural norms, the same routines, the same people. When we travel, whether, you know, we're moving to a new city or we're visiting a foreign country or whatever it is, we strip away all of that normalcy. And in the absence of those familiar cues, we're really being forced to look inward and kind of decide for ourselves that we are capable and decide for ourselves how we wanna think and how we wanna act and how we wanna connect. I think on top of that, the reason people love travel during this decade is, of course, it's fun, but it also just makes for really great and iconic stories that we're gonna pass down to our kids and our grandkids or to our friends at a nursing home or wherever it is.

它们就像编织我们生活的丝线，真的。这些经历逐渐成为我们人生画卷的纤维，构成我们正在创造的事物。现在让我们探讨旅行的心理学意义，以及为何旅行实际上是我们这十年间促进个人发展的最佳方式之一。首先，旅行能带来深刻的认知灵活性。认知灵活性本质上是指我们接触新事物、新环境、新情境时，即使从未经历过也能解决问题的能力。

They become, like, fibers that kind of create our life, really. They, like, become the fibers of this tapestry and of this thing that we're creating. So let's talk about the psychology of travel and why traveling actually is one of the best things we can do for our development during this decade. Firstly, travel brings about a profound sense of cognitive flexibility. Cognitive flexibility is basically our ability to experience new things, new circumstances, new situations, and problem solve despite never being exposed to them before.

这本质上是我们适应全新思维方式和未知挑战的能力。这是我们大脑在成年早期培养的最关键技能之一。缺乏这种能力将寸步难行。而当我们置身于异国或旅途中的陌生环境时，这种能力会显著增强。科学研究也证实了这一点。

It's basically our ability to adapt to new ways of thinking and new challenges that we've never encountered. This is one of the most essential skills that our brain develops in early adulthood. You cannot really get anywhere without it. And it is heightened in fact through exposure to novel environments like those we find abroad or like those we find traveling. There is actually a science to back this up.

2010年的一项研究发现，在国外生活一学期的人回国后，不仅表现出更高水平的认知灵活性，创造力也有所提升——这两者本就密切相关。因为在异文化环境中，他们必须适应新事物，解决陌生问题，重新构建对新意义的理解方式。要知道，旅行带给我们的不仅是新风景和体验乐趣。

A 2010 study found that people who lived abroad for a semester demonstrated when they returned higher levels of cognitive flexibility and also higher levels of creativity, which is related to to cognitive flexibility. Because when they were within this new culture, they had to adapt and they saw new things. They had to find solutions to unfamiliar problems. They had to negotiate a new kind of way of understanding a new and a new meaning. You know, travel doesn't just show us new places and it isn't just about the joy of the experience.

它实际上深度重塑了我们的思维方式。我们变得更适应不确定性，更愿意接纳复杂性，更能同时保持多元视角。这种宝贵技能常被忽视——当人们在巴厘岛海滩畅饮或城市酒店休憩时，往往意识不到这对大脑的改造有多深刻。

It actually rewires our thinking very deeply. We become more comfortable with ambiguity, more willing to embrace complexity and more able to really hold multiple perspectives in our mind at once. It's just such an invaluable skill that I think people don't really appreciate when, you know, they're having drinks on a beach in Bali or they're at a hotel in the city over. Like, they don't realize what they're doing for their brain. It's incredibly powerful.

这还涉及深刻的个人成长层面。我们多数人在高度可控的环境中长大：学校课表、家庭惯例、文化期待...

There's also a deeply personal element to this as well. Many of us grow up in environments that are very, very controlled. We have our school schedule. We have our family routine. We have cultural expectations.

而这个十年正是我们首次主动突破这些边界，探索真实自我的时期。这是个个性化发展的阶段。旅行让我们能切实检验这种新获得的独立性与自我认知，它通过挑战心理学家阿尔伯特·班杜拉提出的'自我效能感'来实现——真希望这个概念能被更多讨论。

During this decade is the first time that we really wanna deliberately step away from these boundaries or push back against these boundaries and find out who we are without them. It's a period of individuation. And travel is such a tangible way for us to actually test this newfound independence and this new sense of self. It does this by challenging what the psychologist Albert Bandura called our self efficacy. I wish we talked about self efficacy more.

这是个极具影响力的概念。本质上，它代表我们相信自己能应对挑战的信心程度。比如在旅行中，自我效能感会经受考验：我是否相信自己能在这座陌生城市找到方向？是否相信自己在遭遇意外时能妥善处理？

It is just such a powerful concept. Basically, it's our ability to trust that we can handle challenges. Basically, how much do we believe that we are capable of dealing with things that are difficult or that we can't necessarily, yeah, predict. For example, you know, with travel, self efficacy is is tested in the sense that we have to ask ourselves, do I trust myself to be able to navigate this new city? Do I trust myself to be okay if things go wrong?

因为旅行中意外总会发生。无论你自认准备充分与否，旅行都会迫使你做出决策——这本质上是一种'烈火洗礼'，让我们不得不直面自己未被日常环境激发的真实能力。这也引出了二十多岁旅行的重要价值：它并不总是光鲜亮丽。

Because with travel, something will always go wrong. Do I trust myself to be able to plan and and make good decisions whether you think you can or not. Travel is gonna force you to do it anyway, and that is essentially a kind of baptism by fire whereby we are forced to see and forced to be made aware of how truly capable we are that in a way that we can't always do in everyday normal environments. And that really leads to, like, an important part of travel in our twenties. It's not always glamorous.

可能混乱不堪，可能精疲力尽，可能令人不适。语言障碍、长途巴士、遗失行李、煎熬的航班...

It can be messy. It can be exhausting. It can be uncomfortable. You know? Language barriers and long bus rides and lost luggage and uncomfortable plane rides.

但这些不完美的时刻其实承载着重要的心理功能：它们培养我们的韧性，教会我们不适感并非需要恐惧，而是可以穿越的经历。这就是所谓的'压力接种'——当我们经历挑战和压力时，实际上会降低未来对压力的敏感度，因为我们体内已存有'我能应对'的证据。

But those less than perfect moments actually serve a really important psychological purpose in that they teach us resilience. They show us that discomfort isn't something to fear but something to move through. This is what we call inoculation by stress or stress inoculations. Essentially, when we experience challenges and when we experience stress, actually, that makes us, I guess, less likely to be stressed in the future. It's inoculating us or protecting us against future spikes in stress levels because we have this evidence within us that we can handle it.

我们拥有这些经历可以回首并说，哦，好吧。我以前来过这里。我以前做过这个。我活下来了。我从负面经历中获得了积极体验。

We have this these experiences to look back on and say, oh, okay. I've been here before. I've done this before. I've survived. I've had positive experiences out of negative experiences.

所以我会没事的。我会好好的。旅行除了可爱的照片、纪念品、美好回忆、饮品等等之外，还有另一个美妙的结果。它拓宽了我们的同理心。社会心理学家早就发现，接触多元观点能减少偏见。

So I'm gonna be okay. I'm gonna be just fine. There is another beautiful outcome of of travel beyond just cute pictures and souvenirs and fun memories and beverages and what else whatever else there is. It also broadens our sense of empathy. Social psychologists have for a long long time known that exposure to diverse perspectives reduces prejudice.

它增进理解。你在另一种文化中与素未谋面、可能难以理解的人相处越久，就越会意识到你以为普遍的事物并非如此，人类存在的方式不止一种。你学会尊重——你的方式并非最佳方式。这是根本性的转变，我认为我们显然都需要更多这样的体验。这个世界感觉如此分裂。

It increases understanding. The more time you spend in another culture around people that you've never met before who you may not understand, the more you begin to see that the things you thought were universal are not, and there is more than one way to be human. And you learn to respect that your way is not the best way. That is such a fundamental shift, and it's one that I think we could all obviously be enduring more or experiencing more. The world feels so polarized.

那种看穿表面差异之下共同人性的能力，是一种静默却颠覆性的技能，我们都认同更多人需要这种能力。或许旅行正是解决之道。走向世界是让人们获得这种理解的途径。同时，你还会建立关系。我们知道，偶然的亲密和与他人共同经历的艰难、深刻或情感充沛的非凡体验，会让你们之间的纽带更加深厚。

That ability though to see the common humanity beneath all our beneath what the, like, surface level differences is a very quiet but radical skill and one that I think we could all agree more people need. Maybe travel is actually the solution to that. Getting out into the world is a way to bring people into this understanding. Also, you know, you build relationships. We know that incidental intimacy and having joint experiences with people that are tough or really deep or emotional, incredible, profound, they make the bond between you and another person even more deep.

远离家乡的环境会激发全新层次的坦诚。当你摆脱他人期待的包袱，脱离日常角色和惯例时，往往更敢于脆弱，更愿意分享。比如'我从没告诉过别人这个，但我正在和这个新认识的人经历新鲜事时同步消化它'——这种亲密感深刻得难以置信。难怪人们旅行归来后总感觉重获新生，更清晰地看世界，更了解自己，因为他们经历了这些自己都未察觉的深层心理变化。我认为二十多岁是最佳旅行时期还有现实原因：我们责任最少（比往后人生阶段少），且旅行正变得更容易实现。

You know, there's something about being away from home that really encourages a new level of openness. When you don't have the baggage of other people's expectations or you don't have your usual role or your usual routine, you often feel a lot more freer to to be vulnerable and to share things and to be like, you know, I've never told anyone this, but this is you know, I'm processing this, like, in the moment whilst I'm experiencing these new things with this new person and that intimacy is just, like, incredibly profound. And it's, like, no wonder that people come back from trips and they just have a new lease on life and they see the world clearer and they feel like they know themselves better because they're going through all of these deep psychological changes that they don't even recognize. I also think that there is a pragmatic reason why our twenties are often the best time to travel. We have very few responsibilities, well, fewer than what we may have later in life, and travel is becoming more accessible.

我们有廉价航空、打工换宿项目。远程办公也越来越普及。各种新平台提供实惠住宿，世界向我们敞开的方式是前几代人无法企及的特权。这当然仍是特权，我们能被允许这样做已是无比幸运。

We've got budget airlines. We've got work exchange programs. Remote work as well is becoming a lot more popular. There are all these new platforms that offer affordable accommodation, and it's just like opened the world up to us in a way that previous generations didn't have the same privileges as us. It definitely is still a privilege and it is still something that is just like incredibly we are incredibly blessed and lucky to be able to do.

但它不再专属于极度富裕人群。这种可及性很重要，因为意味着更多人能获得发展性收益、思维提升、同理心培养等种种益处——通过看世界、走出去获得那些让你更贴近人性本质、更明确自我定位、更清楚想要从世界/人类/生活中获取什么的体验。我知道谈论旅行时听起来很夸张，人们只觉得是'春假玩乐之旅'。

But it's no longer solely reserved for people who are incredibly wealthy. And this accessibility matters because it means more people are seeing the developmental benefits and the mindset benefits and the empathy benefits and all the benefits of of seeing the world and of going out there and having experiences that make them feel more in touch with your human side and that make you feel more aligned with who you are and what you want from the world and and what you want from humanity and what you want from your life. I know it's so crazy when you talk about travel. People are just like, oh, yes. My fun, like, spring break trip.

但事实是：这些经历背后有深层心理学原理，它们正在重塑你的人生叙事。难怪年长者总爱重述旅行故事，总有些改变人生的精彩经历发生在飞机上、船上或异国——这些是我们生命的高光时刻，是自我认知的锚点，提醒着我们曾经勇敢、好奇、鲜活地存在过，真切地做过自己。二十多岁旅行最美好之处在于：它不必宏大奢华。

And it's like, no. There is a there are deep psychological principles, and there is a narrative that is being that you have about your life that is being shaped by these experiences. No wonder people who are older always wanna recount the travel stories or always have some brilliant life changing story that happened when they were flying or on a boat or in a foreign place because these are high points in our life. They are anchor points for our sense of self and reminders of the times when we were bold and we were curious and we were alive in the world and we felt like ourselves. Now I wanna say this, perhaps one of the most beautiful things about traveling in our twenties is that it does not have to be grand and elaborate and expensive.

徒步太平洋山脊、见埃菲尔铁塔或完成梦想之旅固然充满魔力，但最具冲击力的体验往往来自微小时刻：一小时车程的短途，或周末民宿之旅。我们过于关注大目的地，实则任何陌生环境都能带来旅行般的惊奇与喜悦。归根结底，关键在于：你是否在见证生平未遇之事？是否在体验此刻的新鲜感？

There are there is undeniable magic in, you know, I don't know, walking the walking the Pacific Crest Trail or seeing the Eiffel Tower or going on your dream trip. But actually some of the most impactful experiences do come from smaller moments, like the trip that was only an hour hour car ride away or a weekend in Airbnb. You know, we place a lot of emphasis on big destinations, but it turns out you can receive the wonder and joy of travel from just about any new environment you haven't been in before. In the end, I think it really all comes down to are you witnessing things you have never witnessed before in your life? Are you experiencing the novelty of this moment?

你是否在以未曾想过的方式成长和挑战自我？是否在用新视角看世界？这才是力量的源泉。但需注意，旅行也会在情绪、身体和精神上消耗我们——这点很少被讨论。好在越来越多人研究如何优化旅行，让我们从起飞那一刻、踏出家门的瞬间就开始最大化旅程价值。

Are you growing in ways and are you challenging yourself in ways that perhaps you wouldn't have? Are you just seeing the world differently? That is really where the power of this comes from. With that in mind though, traveling can also kind of take a toll on us emotionally and physically and mentally, which is something we don't talk about all the time. But it turns out there are a lot of people out there interested in and researching how to travel better so that we can get the most out of our trips, get the most out of this experience starting with the flight, starting with the moment we leave our house.

而我荣幸地采访到了其中一位关键人物。请保持关注，不要走开。短暂休息后，我们将更深入地探讨这个话题。

And I got the privilege of being able to interview one of those very people. So stay tuned. Stick around for more. We're gonna dive even deeper into this topic after this short break.

1975年12月29日，拉瓜迪亚机场。

12/29/1975, LaGuardia Airport.

假日出行高峰。父母拖着行李，孩子们紧攥着新得的圣诞礼物。直到晚上6点33分，一切骤然改变。

The holiday rush. Parents hauling luggage, kids gripping their new Christmas toys. Then at 06:33PM, everything changed.

环球航空航站楼发生爆炸。爆炸显然将金属玻璃碎片冲击四散，伤者正被抬上救护车。现场一片混乱，极度混乱。

There's been a bombing at the TWA terminal. Apparently, explosion actually impelled metal glass. The injured were being loaded into ambulances. Just a chaotic, chaotic scene.

此后，一种新型敌人浮出水面，并在此扎根——恐怖主义。《法律与秩序：刑事司法系统》第二季回归。本季我们将聚焦于那些潜伏在光天化日之下、更难以预测甚至阻止的威胁。请通过iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或任意播客平台收听新一季内容。

In its wake, a new kind of enemy emerged, and it was here to stay. Terrorism. Law and Order Criminal Justice System is back. In season two, we're turning our focus to a threat that hides in plain sight, that's harder to predict and even harder to stop. Listen to the new season of Law and Order Criminal Justice System on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

既然我们已经讨论了二十多岁阶段旅行在心理和情感层面的重要性，现在我想更深入探讨其生理机制、生物学原理，以及旅行与健康的科学关联。如我所言，这并非我的专长领域。是的，我偶尔会搭乘飞机，但我想请教比我更了解其中奥妙的人。还有谁比世界著名心脏病学家Henry Ting医生更合适呢？

So now that we've discussed the psychology and the emotional importance of travel in our twenties, I wanna get a little bit further into the physicality of it, the biology of it, the science of kind of travel and well-being. And like I said, this is not my area of expertise. Yes. I jump on an airplane every now and again, but I wanted to talk to someone who really understood all the other sides of this better than me. And who better than doctor Henry Ting, who is a world renowned cardiologist.

他还在2021年加入达美航空担任全球首席健康官。我认为再没有比他更适合探讨这个话题的人选了。欢迎您，Ting医生。

He also joined Delta Airlines in 2021 as the global airline's chief health and wellness officer. There is quite literally no better person, I think, to talk to about this than him. Welcome, Doctor. Ting.

很荣幸参与节目，Gemma。

Pleasure to be here with you, Gemma.

我对此非常期待。在探讨您和达美的研究之前，能否先请您简单介绍一下您的从医背景？

I'm very, very excited for this. Before we jump into the questions that I have for you about your research and Delta's research, can we just know a little bit more about you and your background as a doctor?

好的。谢谢Gemma。首先请叫我Henry就行——毕竟我不是你的主治医生。我接受的是心脏病学专业训练，在波士顿完成培训后，于明尼苏达州罗切斯特市的梅奥诊所工作了二十余年。

Yeah. Thanks, Gemma. First, please call me Henry. I'm not your doctor, but I'm a cardiologist by training. I trained in Boston and worked for over twenty years at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota.

正如你所说，我于2021年加入达美航空，成为该航空公司首位首席健康与福祉官。

And I joined Delta Airlines in 2021, as you said, as the airline's first chief health and wellness officer.

这个概念真的很酷，因为我从未想过——等等，人类在空中度过时间其实是件多么奇怪的事。显然这有时会影响我们，无论是时差带来的身心影响还是整体福祉。你能以这个身份加入实在太棒了。我还想具体聊聊你们最近做的一个实验：你们推出了新 campaign 和系列内容，专门探索旅行与福祉的关联。

Which is honestly such a cool concept because I had never thought about the fact that wait, spending time in the air is such a such a weird thing for humans to be doing. And it obviously, like, does sometimes affect us, like, mentally and physically in terms of jet lag and in terms of well-being. So the fact that that you've, like, joined in that capacity is super cool. I also wanna talk more specifically about a recent experiment that you guys kind of conducted. So you guys have launched a new campaign and a new series that really explores the connection between travel and well-being.

作为其中一环，你们做了超酷的研究。我们播客最爱科学和数据了，这些可太对胃口了。能详细说说这个实验的前提吗？

But as part of that, you did some really cool research. And you guys know on this podcast, we love our science. We love our research. It's tasty. Can you dive into into the premise of this for me?

Gemma，我和你一样是个吃货，对美味的东西特别兴奋。但退一步看，旅行——尤其是航空旅行——让世界变得更小了，它打开了我们许多人曾认为不可能的可能性。如今只需三、六或十小时的飞行，你就能到地球另一端接触从未想象过的人、地和体验。

So, Gemma, I'm a foodie like you, so things that taste good, I'm really excited about. But I think, you know, if we take a step back, travel has made the world smaller, right, particularly airline travel. It's opened up possibilities that many of us imagined were not possible. And now you get on a flight for three, six, or ten hours. You can be in the other side of the world meeting people, places, experiences that you couldn't have imagined.

我认为这对所有人都是非凡而美妙的事，大多数人可能已离不开它带来的可能性。针对你的问题：我们确实与Z世代创作者做了个关于旅行影响的实验，叫'飞行让生活更美好'。达美既想为乘客打造无缝高端飞行体验，也相信飞行能提升生活品质——从萌生旅行念头、规划行程、抵达机场、办理登机，直到精神焕发地享受目的地的一切，无论是商务还是休闲。

And I think that's a remarkable, fantastic thing for all of us. And I think most of us probably couldn't live without it in terms of the possibilities it opens up. But specific to your question, yeah, we conducted an experiment with some Gen Z creators about impact of travel, and the experiment was called Fly and Live Better. One, Delta wants to create a seamless premium experience for all of our customers in flight, but we feel like the flight experience can also help you live better. And when I talk about the flight experience, it starts with your idea that you want to go somewhere, and that you planned a trip, and that you get to the airport, and you check-in, experience and arriving at your destination refreshed and ready to enjoy whatever it is that's on your mind, whether that's business or pleasure.

所以你们想探索如何优化这个过程对吧？如何提升体验？详细说说研究过程吧，我知道你们安排了一些人乘机...

And so you kinda wanted to see how we could do this better. Right? And how we could kind of elevate the experience. Talk me through what happened in in this kind of research. I I know you guys set some people on some flights.

收集了数据对吧？具体说说过程，细节越详细越好，我们超想知道数据结果和所有变化。你们选了四个人...

You gathered some data. Yeah. Tell me about how that went. Go as in-depth on the procedure as you want because I feel like we love to know, yeah, exactly what the data was and all of the changes. And you had four people.

能具体讲讲他们的体验吗？

Right? Can you talk a bit more about their experiences?

我们邀请了四位内容创作者和社交媒体达人：Gabe和Luan，以及Sophie和Simi，他们是两对搭档。我们想观察旅行对其健康和福祉的影响。

Yeah. So we had four content creators, social media influencers. Their names were Gabe and Luan, as well as Sophie and Simi. They were two pairs. And we wanted to see the effects of travel on their health and well-being.

所有人都佩戴了Oura戒指来监测生理指标，包括准备度分数、睡眠分数、旅行期间和目的地的活动分数，还通过问卷评估他们在旅程中及返程后的情感社交福祉。研究将这两对人送往不同目的地：一组飞往哥本哈根享受高端体验（达美至臻商务舱+五星酒店），另一组就近飞往西雅图（舒适经济舱+天际俱乐部+定制体验），后者更易实现且无需长途飞行或倒时差。

And all of them were given Oura Ring to wear to measure their physiologic parameters, so including their readiness score, their sleep score, their activity score during travel and at the destination, as well as they were given a survey to assess their emotional and social well-being during the trip and when they returned. And part of the research was to send these two pairs of people to different destinations. One was a premium bucket list location in Copenhagen where they essentially flew Delta One, stayed at a five star hotel, and had premium experiences in Copenhagen. And the second was a more local closer trip, which we felt was also very much more accessible and fun, but didn't require the long flight or the change in time zones, that was to Seattle, Washington. And they flew Delta Comfort, they had access to our Sky Clubs, and they also had curated Delta experiences in Seattle.

旅途中我们让他们佩戴了Oura智能戒指，因此能获取他们的准备指数、睡眠分数、活动分数等数据，并通过问卷了解他们在旅程中的情绪与社交健康状况。

And during the trip we had the Oura Ring on them, so we were able to get metrics of their readiness score, their sleep score, their activity score, as well as surveys of their emotional and social well-being on the trip.

我必须要问，长途国际航班和短途国内航班之间有差异吗？作为经常跨国飞行的人，我觉得越洋航班总是让我精疲力尽。你们观察到这两类航班对参与者的影响有区别吗？

And I have to ask, was it different between the long haul flight and the short domestic flight? Because as someone who like, I feel like I I fly overseas, not all the time, but quite a bit. And when I fly overseas, it kind of takes it out of me. Did you see a difference between those two groups?

噢，确实非常明显。两组旅行最显著的共同点是——乘船旅行让他们的情绪健康与社交健康指数飙升。无论是本地化的西雅图航线，还是梦想清单上的哥本哈根之旅，船旅体验令人大开眼界。我认为这种提升源于旅途中遇见的人、经历的事以及体验到的多元文化。

Oh, yeah. Very much so. I think what was good about both is their emotional or mental well-being and social well-being went through the roof on boat trips. Boat trips were eye opening, including the trip to Seattle, which was more local and accessible, as well as a bucket list trip to Copenhagen. On boat trips, their emotional well-being and social well-being escalated, really because of, I think, the people and the experiences and the different cultures you were able to see.

差异主要体现在身体状态、活动量和睡眠质量上。飞往欧洲哥本哈根的六到八小时长途航班确实消耗巨大，而三小时短途飞往西雅图的航班则更容易适应调整。

The differences we saw were more on physical well-being, activity and sleep. Obviously, you know, when you have this longer flight to Copenhagen in in in Europe and it's a six to eight hour flight, it does take a lot out of you. Whereas a shorter three hour flight to Seattle, it was much easier for them to acclimate, adjust to.

但最让我惊喜的是，无论是长途国际旅行、短途国内出行，还是哥本哈根梦想之旅与西雅图周边游，对参与者心理和社交的助益竟然如此相似。这个发现特别有价值——我们总强调二十多岁时要环游欧洲或打卡多国，但你的研究表明，家门口的旅行同样能带来精神层面的拓展。

But you know what I love about what you're saying is that the long haul flight, the short domestic travel, the dream trip to Copenhagen versus, you know, the around the corner trip for these participants to Seattle, had very similar mental and social perks and benefits. And you know why I think that that is such a cool finding from this is because, obviously, like, we talk about people in their twenties. Right? And there's this huge emphasis on doing your Euro gap year or traveling to as many countries as possible or, you know, bucket list travel items. And definitely online, we see people doing these amazing trips.

我特别认同你说的：旅行本质带来的社交、文化、心理层面的拓展，不一定非要远渡重洋才能获得。那些精心设计的小型旅行同样能带来这种效果——这个话题确实值得深入探讨，毕竟心灵成长不只能依靠海外壮游来实现。

And I love that what you're saying is just traveling in general, even if it's like Yeah. To the town next door or to the city, like, over the way is still gonna give you that kind of social and cultural and psychological and emotional expansion, which I think actually we need to talk about a little bit more because, again, it's not just these overseas amazing trips that are gonna give that to you. Yeah. It's these, like, small moments of intention. Right?

完全同意。后续访谈中发现，当问及'近途短旅与远方长线哪个收获更大'时，答案并不单一。整体而言，旅行本身——探索不同地方的过程——就是最有价值的回报。

Absolutely. I I think after they came back, we did a couple of interviews with them, and it was interesting. When I asked them, did you get more from a shorter trip that was closer, or did you get more from a longer trip that was further away? And it wasn't a simple answer. The answers were different, and I think as a whole, the fact of traveling and seeing different places in of itself was rewarding.

达美航空有句口号：'没有人比我们更擅长连接世界'。这种连接不仅是将人们送达目的地，更是联结人与人、不同文化，以及那些虚拟现实无法复制的体验——比如嗅闻花香、骑行时感受拂面清风。有趣的是，有些内容创作者在哥本哈根或西雅图遇到绝佳景致时，会快速完成工作内容，只为全身心享受当下。

And at Delta, we like to say no one better connects the world, and for us that's connecting not just people to places and destinations, it's connecting people to other people, other cultures, and ultimately experiences that can't really be replicated by Oculus or a pair of goggles in virtual Being able to smell the flowers or go on the bike ride and feel the wind blow in your hair, those are things that you can only experience in person. And it was pretty fun to hear from these content creators that some of these views, be it in Seattle and Copenhagen, or dinners or experiences were so fantastic, they had to quickly create their content and then put that aside so they can actually enjoy the experience.

哇，这又是个超棒的发现！旅行居然能让我们从社交媒体——对这些创作者来说甚至是工作——中抽离出来。我深有同感，旅行总能激发全新创造力，因为当你脱离熟悉环境和责任束缚时，才能真正以人类本真的状态活在当下。

Okay. This is a this is also a cool finding that you're telling me is that when we are, like, in these spaces, travel actually allows us to disconnect further from, you know, social media. And, yeah, for them, their work, which is something that I I also find when I'm traveling. I'm like, I it just, like, unlocks a whole new side of creativity for me as well because you get out of the space that is known and you get out of, you know, your responsibilities and you're able to just be present as kind of as humans were intended to be.

没错。

Like Right.

它们本应激发好奇心，而我们人类生来就是要探索、见证自然与美的。确实很有诗意。但我想聊些不那么诗意却同样关乎人性的话题——飞行对身体的影响及如何更健康地飞行。我感觉这代人健康意识很强，我自己也不例外。

They were intended to be curious and they were we are intended to be to explore and to witness nature and witness beauty. Yeah. It's actually quite poetic. But I I wanna talk about something less poetic, but just as important to our humanness, which is the physical impacts of flying and also how we can better fly for our health. I feel like this this generation is is so health conscious, and I know I am as well.

所以任何能减轻身体负担或让我感觉更好的飞行方式都极其重要。你发现了什么？从生理角度看飞行会带来哪些影响？我们又该如何应对？

And so any way that I can, like, elevate an experience so that my body endures less or so that I feel better is is so important to me. What did you find with that? What does flying kind of do from a physical perspective, and how can we manage those things?

好。先说说我们的发现。四到五小时短途飞往西雅图的航班上，乘客抵达时状态很好——准备度评分高且持续，睡眠评分反而提升了。

Yeah. Let's start with some of the findings we had. You know, for the shorter trip, the four to five hour flight to Seattle, you know, our people arrived ready. Their readiness score was high and remained high. Their sleep score actually improved.

尽管有三小时时差，他们平均睡眠评分提高了8分。活动量也显著增加，因为大家外出步行骑车很活跃。西雅图数据显示，从旅行或睡眠角度看几乎没造成身体损耗，人们精神饱满地享受旅程。而哥本哈根这类梦想长途旅行（六小时时差）则不同...

So even though they were in a time zone three hours apart, their sleep score on average improved eight points. And their activity score was much higher because they got out and about and they walked and they biked and they were physically active. And that's what we saw in Seattle, that there wasn't much of a physical toll from the travel or sleep perspective. They arrived ready, refreshed, and able to enjoy the location. Now the bucket list or dream trip to Copenhagen, obviously a longer trip, six hour time zone difference.

他们乘坐达美航空头等舱，享受了贵宾厅服务，对机上餐饮和尊享服务都很满意。但抵达时准备度降低，Oura环记录的睡眠评分暴跌近20分——我个人最高睡眠分是94分，降到74分就非常夸张了。不过活动量仍很高，即使缺觉疲劳，他们进行的体力活动仍不少于甚至超过平日水平。

You know, they flew Delta one first class, and they were in the Delta one club, you know, before flight, and they loved the flight including the beverages and the food and the premium service. But when you look at when they arrived, their readiness score was lower, their sleep score dropped by nearly 20 points on their Oura Ring. I'd to say my top sleep score ever in my Oura Ring was a 94, so dropping to 74 would be pretty dramatic for me. And their activity score was high. So even though they were sleep deprived, tired, they still got out and did a lot of physical activities that was on average as high, if not higher, than what they were doing at their home.

关键在于，二三十岁时总想榨干每分体验——

And here's the thing. I feel like when you're in your twenties and thirties and when you're younger, it's like, I wanna get every single little thing out of this experience.

没错

Like Yeah.

要是坐上了头等舱（这简直是人生清单项目！）来到美丽城市，谁管时差？我就要吃糕点、购物、逛博物馆，绝对要！

If I've flown first class, which that's like a I would yeah. Bucket list item. If I've flown first class and I'm in this beautiful city, who cares if I'm jet lagged? Like, I'm gonna go and have pastries, and I'm gonna go shopping, and I'm gonna go see the museums. Like, you you bet.

结果第二天就垮了，得补24小时觉否则变僵尸。你之前提过如何两全其美——

And then it's, like, day two. Yeah. And you're like, I need to sleep for the next twenty four hours, or I'm or I'm not gonna you're a zombie. And you were talking to me earlier. Like, we we were talking the other day about how you can kind of have the best of both worlds.

对，那些能让我们落地时保持较高准备度（睡眠分或许稍低但不至于暴跌）的策略。特别记得你强调过了解昼夜节律的重要性，能详细说说吗？

Yeah. Some of the strategies that we can kind of adopt to land, to have our readiness score higher, Maybe our sleep score a little bit lower, but not as low as as it has to be. Right. Particularly, I remember you talking about the importance of understanding your circadian rhythm. Can you expand on that a little bit?

是的。昼夜节律是你自身生物钟对24小时日夜周期的调节。回想没有电力和人造光的时代，这种节律完全由日光驱动。当时所有人的昼夜节律都是同步的——没有航空旅行，大家都遵循相同的作息周期。

Yeah. I mean, the circadian rhythm is your own biological clock for a twenty four hour day night cycle. And if you think back in time before we had electricity and lights, that circadian rhythm was driven by daylight or sunlight. And everybody was on the same circadian rhythm. No one flew anywhere, but everybody was on the same day night cycle or circadian rhythm.

但随着社会进步，我们发明了电力、灯光、计算机，创造了有无窗户的房间，这些彻底打乱了昼夜节律。以跨时区旅行为例：虽然你住澳大利亚我住亚特兰大，我们各自保持着清醒/睡眠的生理节奏。当你飞往六小时时差的地方时，身体虽在哥本哈根，但生理机能仍停留在原时区——这就造成了物理存在与生理状态的分裂。

But as you think about the advances in our society and community, we invented electricity, we invented lights, we invented computers, we invented windows or rooms without windows. That completely disrupted our circadian rhythms. And if you think about what travel does, you and I, although you live in Australia and I live in Atlanta, we have our own circadian rhythms of daynight, when we're supposed to be awake, when we sleep and get all activities done. And when you travel to a different time zone that's six hours apart, you may be physically in Copenhagen, but physiologically your body's function and your brain function is not at the same time that your body physically is there. So there's a separation between your physical person in Copenhagen and your physiologic person.

你的认知能力、思维模式、精力水平仍停留在亚特兰大时区。不过确有科学方法能加速时区转换，也有些做法会适得其反。我们可以重点讨论那些经科学验证、能让旅行者更快适应新时区并保持精力充沛的策略。

Everything that you know and you do and how you think and how much energy you have and how much focus you have is still in Atlanta. But there are things you can do to accelerate that conversion to a time zone that's six hours different, and there are things that you can do that make it worse. And those are the things I think we can talk about that are science based that would help a traveler arrive refreshed and convert to that time zone faster.

这正是我需要了解的——亨利你可能要骂我了——我登机时会吃褪黑素软糖配红酒。嗯，这大概不是正确做法。

Yeah. So this is what I need to know because I've got to say, you're gonna be mad at me, Henry. But when I get on a plane, I I'm I'm having my melatonin gummies, and I'm also having a glass of wine. Yep. That's probably not the right thing to do.

你能不能...因为我明白...

Can you because I know, like,

最关键的是避免镇静剂和酒精。为什么这如此重要？

the biggest one is, like, avoid sedatives. Avoid alcohol. Why is that so important to do?

因为感觉很多人会...

Because I feel like a lot of

想着'我要调整时差'，就在飞机上强迫自己快速入睡，或抵达后刻意延迟睡眠。这种情况下使用镇静剂和酒精有什么问题？

us are like, well, I wanna adjust so I'm going to, you know, try and push myself to sleep faster on the plane or delay sleep when I get there. What's wrong with the with the sedatives and and the alcohol in this situation?

正如你所说——镇静剂、软糖、酒精可能让你昏睡，但这不是恢复性睡眠。真正修复身心的睡眠需要快速眼动睡眠（REM）和深度睡眠。而褪黑素、安眠药、安定片等催眠药物诱导的并非优质睡眠。

Well, you said it. Right? The sedatives, the gummies, the alcohol, they may actually make you tired and have you fall asleep, but it's not restorative restful sleep. We know that the restorative restful sleep is your REM sleep, rapid eye movement sleep, well as your deep sleep. And believe it or not, sedatives and hypnotics like melatonin, Ambien, Valium, or the gummies, they actually cause sleep but not the right sleep.

它们无法激发深度睡眠与REM睡眠。即使睡足五到八小时，身体仍得不到充分修复。这就是为什么安眠药、安定片和酒精反而有害。更甚者，有些人抵达后会注射含色素（黄/蓝/绿）的静脉输液——虽然能暂时补水提神...

They don't induce the deep sleep and the REM sleep. So even though you've been asleep for five hours, eight hours, you're not rested because your body gets restored to restful sleep with the deep sleep and REM sleep. And that's why the Ambien, the Valium, the alcohol, those are actually bad for you. You know, and and some people, I'll take it to the next level, some people arrive on scene and get their IV fluid infusions, and the fluids could be yellow, blue, and green. That might rehydrate you and make you feel temporally better.

其一，我担忧这些液体为何呈绿色、蓝色和黄色，里面添加了什么成分；其二，它并不能真正恢复身体机能。它只是让你暂时感觉好些以便继续活动，但仅仅输一升静脉注射液并不能从生理上真正修复你的身体。

One, I worry about why the fluid is green, blue, and yellow, and what additives are in there, but two, it doesn't really restore the body. It makes you feel temporarily better so you can do that activity, but it doesn't really restore your body physically just to get a liter of IV fluid.

所以你的意思是，我们以为这些措施有帮助，但实际上我们应该重新思考如何调整昼夜节律？

So what you're saying is that we're doing all these things thinking they're helping, but what we should really be doing is what should we be doing in terms of rethinking our circadian rhythm?

没错。这些方法能带来短期效益，但你可能正在付出长期代价。因为度假结束后你可能需要再休个假，得额外休息才能重新投入工作。

Yeah. Yeah. So those give you a short term benefit, but there's probably a long term cost you're paying. Right? Because you'll probably arrive home needing a vacation from your vacation and to get more rest before you can, you know, reenter your work life.

让我们回到昼夜节律话题。光线至关重要。我们知道蓝光波段能刺激大脑和视网膜受体，让你在日间保持警觉和活跃。但并非所有蓝光都有效，特定波长的蓝光会向大脑传递'现在是白天，该保持清醒'的信号，激发你的活力和专注力。

So let's get back to the circadian rhythm. Light is important. We know that blue wavelength light is what stimulates your brain and the receptors in your retina to be alert and active for your daytime activities. We know that it's not just any blue cutter light. There's a specific wavelength of blue light that particularly informs your brain that says, hey, it's daytime, it's time to be awake, and stimulates you to be alert and active and have energy.

而红橙光波则相反，它会通知大脑和视网膜受体放松，降低能量水平和警觉性，为睡眠做准备。在没有电子设备和人造光源的自然环境下，日落时的光线就是如此。那么我们如何利用光线来调节时间呢？我推荐一个叫SkyView的智能照明系统——这可不是普通彩光。

And there's an opposite spectrum of light that's in the red orange wavelength that starts telling your brain and the receptors of your retina to relax, to decrease your energy level and your alertness, and to prepare for sleep. And that's what you get if all you were exposed to was sunlight without computers, iPads, iPhones, and light bulbs. And how do we then convert that time using light as a key component? So one technology or product I like to talk about that we've used is something called SkyView lighting. This is not just colored lighting.

SkyView能发射特定波长的蓝光保持日间清醒，通过APP可设置哥本哈根、西雅图或澳大利亚的当地时间。它会自动遵循24小时周期切换为红橙光助眠。这相当于用人造光替代阳光来告诉大脑昼夜交替。其科学原理非常有趣：研发团队包括NASA前物理学家，他们发现国际空间站每90分钟就经历一次日出日落。

SkyView lighting actually is a specific light that transmits a color that's blue wavelength specifically for alertness during the day, and you can actually program it on your app to time it for the day in Copenhagen, Seattle, or Atlanta, or Australia, but then it automatically realizes the twenty four hour cycle and changes the color to red and orange to prepare you for sleep. So that is something you can do to almost tell your brain when it's daylight and when it's nighttime, and do it with light as opposed to sunlight. Now the science behind this is quite fascinating. I'm sure you'd be interested in it. This company was started by scientists that used to work at NASA, physicists, and they realized that in the International Space Station, which orbits the Earth, the day night cycle of sunrise and sunset is ninety minutes.

空间站的舷窗无法关闭，宇航员每90分钟就经历昼夜循环。10人团队必须保持同步作息来维护空间站和进行研究。研究发现若不干预，宇航员昼夜节律每天会偏移1-2小时，70%-80%的宇航员需服用助眠药物。

And there are windows on the space station which can't be closed. So you're experiencing day and night every ninety minutes, and there's a crew of 10 astronauts who are expected to work in harmony and synchrony to maintain the space station and do the research they're doing. And they have to be on the same circadian rhythm. One person can't be asleep while the other person's ready to do the experiments or the research. What they found is without any intervention, the astronauts were becoming one to two hours per day separated in their circadian rhythm as every day went by, and what they also found was seventy, eighty percent of the astronauts were taking medications for sleep because they were trying to get sleep at the same time.

安装SkyView后，每天30分钟光照就能让10名宇航员保持同步作息，确保团队高效协作。这套系统同样适用于潜艇部队——在两个月不见阳光的水下，它能帮助300名艇员维持团队运作。在阿拉斯加等极夜地区，持续黑暗会导致季节性情感障碍，这种模拟阳光的光照疗法效果显著。

But what they did was they put the SkyView light in the space station, and with thirty minutes of exposure to that light every single day, they can keep the 10 astronauts on the same circadian rhythm day and night so they can be functional, alert, and active working as a team, if you will, working as a fully functional team. This kind of lighting has also been useful for submarines and the military, right? Because if you're in a submarine and you're actually deployed underneath the water for two months with no daylight or sunlight, this at least tells your brain this is daytime and now this is nighttime, and keeps the entire crew of 300 submariners to be working as a team, as a functional single team. And the last group where this has been shown to be particularly effective is in places like Alaska, where in the winter you have twenty three hours of night. And we know that prolonged nighttime or prolonged darkness can lead to seasonal affective disorders, that people can get mental health So having this light be exposed to it and have the exposure to an artificial sunlight was very very useful.

这些就是SkyView照明的科学依据。如今纽约大都会棒球队更衣室也采用此系统，确保球员比赛时保持最佳状态。

I can tell you that those are the scientific basis of how this SkyView light has been used. Today, we've got sports teams like the New York Mets having this in their locker room so that all their players can be fresh and alert and ready when the game starts.

所以你的核心观点是：要想提升状态，就必须理解光线的力量，对吗？

Yeah. So what you're saying to me is, like, if you wanna if you wanna fly better, you need to start really understanding the power of light. Right?

是的。我们目前正与SkyView合作，达美航空携手SkyView致力于研发这款灯的迷你版本——因为现有灯具体积庞大，要么是头顶照明灯，要么是大型台灯。而我们正在开发的便携版尺寸不超过小型iPad，可随身携带登机，放置在酒店房间或任何场所，根据昼夜节律为你提供蓝光或红橙光照射。我们对此非常兴奋，因为它能帮助你更快适应时差转换。

Yeah. So, you know, we are working with SkyView right now. Delta's partnering with SkyView to try to get a miniaturized version of this light because the current lights are large. They're overhead lights, they're large desk lamps, but we're working on a miniaturized version that's no bigger than a small iPad that you can take with you as carry on and you could put into your hotel room or put into wherever you are so you have exposure to blue light and red orange light depending on circadian rhythm. We're really excited about it because this can help you convert your time and the different time zones faster.

希望这款产品能在未来几个月内进入测试阶段，我们将与机组人员共同验证效果。现在我想转向介绍另一家合作企业Fount和他们的FlyKit产品。我手边就有实物，这是他们销售的昼夜节律调节套装。通过这套干预方案，你能加速生理时钟的调整——如果不采取任何措施，适应6-8小时时差通常需要2-4天，具体取决于个人调节能力。

So that hopefully will be ready for testing, and we're gonna test it with our crew the next couple of months to see if that works. I would like to pivot actually to another company we've worked with, which is called Fount and FlyKit. I have each have one over here, and this is a product they sell, it's Fount and Fly Kit. Again, this is interventions you can do to try to convert your circadian rhythm faster, right? So if we do nothing, we'll probably convert to that six to eight hour time zone difference over a matter of two to four days, depending on how quickly you acclimate and adjust.

若依赖安定、褪黑素、安眠药或助眠软糖，反而可能延长适应期。与SkyView类似，这套方案旨在将适应时间缩短至1-2天。该公司由海豹突击队员创立，考虑到军队需要随时部署执行任务，他们研发的补充剂会根据你的航班信息——包括航线、飞行时间、目的地时差——通过APP精准指导服用时间。

If you do the Valium, Melatonin, Ambien, and Gummies, actually may delay it and take longer. This, again, like SkyView, is meant to try to decrease that conversion to a matter of one or two days. So this company was founded by some Navy SEALs. As you think about the Navy SEALs and our military, they may need to deploy and they need that crew ready to carry out their mission. And using supplements, they actually look at your time zone.

这些含镁、维生素C/B6/B12及欧米伽3脂肪酸的补充剂能帮助身体快速适应当地时区。APP还会显示你的生理节律偏移程度，并推荐用餐时间、食物种类、进食分量及就寝时间，全方位助力时差调整，让你抵达目的地时保持最佳状态享受旅程。

They have an app depending on where you're flying, your specific flight, what time you're flying, the time zone difference when you arrive. Their app tells you when you take these supplements, which includes a mixture of magnesium, vitamin C, vitamin B6, vitamin B12, as well as omega-three fatty acids, really to help your body adjust to that local time zone faster. And it can actually show you how much you shifted. Within the app, it also recommends when you should eat, what you should eat, how much you should eat, and when you should go to bed. Again, trying to help your body make that time zone conversion faster so you arrive ready, refreshed to enjoy your trip.

套装里最让我倾心的是这副蓝光过滤眼镜，它能阻挡99%的蓝光——戴上后视野会呈现橙色调。虽然市面上类似产品不少，但这副做工精良，特别适合夜间使用电子设备时佩戴，既能正常活动又避免蓝光干扰睡眠节律。

And lastly, what they provide in the kit is my favorite, which are these blue blocker glasses. These blue blocker glasses essentially will block out 99% of that blue light we talked about. You put these on, everything looks like a shade of orange. You've seen these being sold by other makers. But these are well made, they block out 99% of that blue wavelength light so that when it's nighttime and you're still on your iPad, your iPhone, or in your computer like you're now, you can put this on and you can do your activity, but you're not getting the blue wavelength light that's keeping you awake, alert as if it's daytime.

结合这些方案，时差适应速度将大幅提升。FlyKit最令人期待的是正在研发的'数字孪生'系统——通过创建用户生理模型，实时比对哥本哈根与澳大利亚的昼夜节律差异。你可以设定目标时区，系统会根据生物指标、补充剂服用情况、运动饮食睡眠记录，精准显示你的节律调整进度。

So with that combination, you're able to convert your time so much faster. And the most exciting thing that I think FlyKit are working on is trying to create what we call a digital twin. So creating a digital twin of Gemma so that we know that this what is this digital twin's physiologic circadian rhythm in Copenhagen? And how far is she deviated from the actual time in Copenhagen versus the time in Australia? Depending on where you want to be, right?

无论是明天飞往澳洲需要提前适应，还是在哥本哈根停留一周需要保持当地作息，这个数字孪生系统都能通过可量化数据给出个性化建议。

You can set your time to I'm going to Australia tomorrow, I want to be ready for Australia, or I'm in Copenhagen for a week and I want to be in the time zone of Copenhagen. So that digital twin can tell you based on measurables, biometrics, as well as if you've taken the supplements, if you've done the exercises, if you've done the eating and sleeping, where are you in terms of your conversion?

这实在太惊艳了！居然现在才有人做这些——我绝对要全部尝试。那个便携灯概念太棒了，要是能塞进随身行李节省一天适应期...我立刻下单！你说调整进食睡眠时间哪怕15分钟都能产生显著效果，这能避免我们花大价钱旅行却白白浪费前两天宝贵时光。

That is honestly amazing. And the fact that people haven't done this sooner is shocking to me because I would be I'm signing up for all of these things. I like the light idea. Like, if I I could pack that in my carry on and that's gonna save me, like, a day Yeah. Of of explore time.

毕竟这种一生难得的旅程，每分每秒都该充分利用。抱歉我有点语无伦次——最后想说，这套方案彻底颠覆了我们对旅行的认知，我们总把出行单纯看作交通方式...

Like, I'm doing that in a heartbeat. And also the fact that you're saying to me, like, what we eat, and when we choose to sleep, even if it's, like, fifteen minutes earlier Yep. Can make such profound shifts, I feel like it's gonna prevent us from going into travel and being like, okay. Cool. So I've just I've just lost two days when it's probably been really expensive for me to get here, and this is like a once in a lifetime trip.

（激动到不知如何表达）

Like, you want all of that time maximized. And I think it sorry. To make one final point, because I'm kind of just blown away by this. I think it also emphasizes that we think of travel as, like, purely I don't really know how we think of it. We just think of it as, like, a form of transport.

但这关乎心理、情感、以及身体层面，它蕴含着更深层的意义。所以谈谈达美航空如何具体实现个性化服务，并将健康视为旅客旅程中不可或缺的一部分。

But it is so mental, and it is so emotional, and emotional, and and physical, and it there is, like, a deeper meaning to it. So talk about how Delta specifically can personalize and is thinking about wellness more as part of someone's journey to their destination.

是的。我们知道旅行可能很辛苦。对吧？会有延误，有时每寸空间都挤满乘客。

Yeah. We know that travel can be hard. Right? You know, there are delays. You know, there are times when it's very crowded in every seat.

正如你所说，许多人把航空旅行视为从A点到B点承受最小负担的过程。但达美正在重新构想——我们将从路缘到行李转盘的体验视为整体，思考如何让旅程既顺畅又愉悦。这一切始于我们的FlyDelta应用。

And and a lot of people, like you said, think of air travel as how do I get from point a to point b with the most least amount of burden or trauma to be. But at Delta, we're trying to reimagine that. We're thinking about your whole curb to claim experience as a holistic experience and how can we make that travel experience as seamless and as delightful as possible. So it starts with our FlyDelta app. Right?

因为这里能规划行程、预订航班、办理登机手续、掌握抵达时间。我们力求在每个环节提供个性化服务——知道您不仅是单次乘客，比如天合联盟会员Gemma多次搭乘后，我们会记住她的偏好，并据此定制未来旅程。例如我们为所有天合联盟会员提供免费高速WiFi，无论美国境内或国际航班，都能连接观看Netflix。

Because this is where you plan a trip and you book your flights, you check-in for your boarding pass and you know when you're supposed to arrive and you board the plane. But I think every step along the way we're trying to make that experience as personalized to you as possible, understanding you are a traveler with Delta, that that you're not just traveling with us once. We know that if Gemma is one of our SkyMouse members and has traveled with us multiple times, we know what she prefers, we know what she likes, we know what she's looking for. And using that information to cater or create your future travel experiences is what we're aiming for. Right, so to that end, for example, we now have a SkyMiles member's free Wi Fi, high speed Wi Fi for every single person on board, to the point where if you're a SkyMiles member, you're a native of our planes, whether it's within The United States or international, you can link up to our Wi Fi and stream Netflix.

您还能观看达美独家合作伙伴YouTube TV的节目。我们与优步合作，当您需要用车时，可在飞行中用WiFi预约。这些个性化服务正是选择达美而非最低价航班的优势——作为天合联盟或其它常旅客会员，您将获得专属体验，比如我们近期新增的Shake Shack汉堡机上预订服务。

You can look at YouTube TV, who's an exclusive partner of Delta, with their content that's coming. We're also partnered with Uber so that if you arrive and we know that you want an Uber, you could book that in flight with the WiFi and schedule it, or you can book it as soon as you're ready to plane. All those are personalized experiences and a seamless experience for our travelers. And I think that's one of the benefits of actually considering not choosing just the lowest cost flight you can get from Atlanta to Australia that you consider becoming a loyalty member, like a SkyWestOne member, with Delta or other airlines where this opens up a world of experiences and curated experiences for you, including I I think one of the things I love the most is we recently added Shake Shack burgers on our flights, which you can order in advance.

噢我

Oh, I

尝过这个，超棒的汉堡。

saw this. It's a great burger.

我在TikTok上看到了。确实很酷。

I saw this on TikTok. Yeah. That's so cool.

我最近从盐湖城飞纽约时品尝过——和门店一样美味。汉堡压烤得外脆里嫩，面包分开包装防止变软，生菜番茄洋葱独立分装，还配有Shake Shack布朗尼和薯片。

It was I just had it on my trip from Salt Lake City to New York, and I gotta say, it was as good as a Shake Shack burger at the restaurant. The burger was smashed, crispy on the outside. They separated the buns so it didn't get soggy. The lettuce, tomatoes, and onions were in a separate bowl, and they gave you their Shake Shack brownie and the potato chips. It was delicious.

更棒的是能提前预订。我们还推出行李追踪服务——托运后会通知您行李何时装机、卸机及到达转盘，彻底消除‘我的行李是否跟到纽约了’的担忧。

And to know that you can order that before the flight was fantastic and knowing that it was ready for you. The other thing we've added a few years ago is, you know, if you're checking in a bag, we now tell you when it's been loaded. So you know that your bag has been loaded on the plane, and then when it's coming off the plane and when it's at the claim. So you never have to worry, did my bag make it with me? Is it still left in Australia and I'm flying to New York?

这些功能简直太棒了。我们希望，在2025年这个数字化与AI强化的时代，您能通过FlyDelta应用完成所有操作，无需致电或排队。即便遇到航班异常情况，如天气原因导致延误，您也能直接在应用中改签或重新预订航班。

So those are the things that are just so fantastic. And hopefully, we're hoping that, you know, given it's 2025 and everybody's digital and AI enhanced, that you can do all these things within the FlyDelta app, and that you never have to call someone or go in line. And even in in the setting of an IRAP or irregular operations where weather or something else is interrupting the flight that you can change a flight or rebook another flight or have something done for you right within the app.

说真的，虽然我不认识你们产品团队，但他们绝对在加班加点。这解决了我乘机时的所有痛点——行李丢失怎么办？怎么去酒店？机场餐饮难吃是不是得自备零食？

The fact like, I don't know who your product team is, but they are working overtime. Because that is every single thing and every single frustration I have ever had with flying, gone. Like, is my bag missing? Or how am I gonna get to my hotel? The airport do I have to pack my own snacks because the airplane food is, like, not very tasty?

比如我能在飞机上工作吗？现在全解决了。这种化繁为简的理念太棒了，我就欣赏企业直面问题说'我们会解决'的态度。

Like, am I gonna have am I gonna be able to, like, work on the flight? All done. All minimized, which is, like, I love when companies are just like, yeah. We recognize that's a problem, and we're not just gonna be, like, deal with it. We're gonna actually do something about it.

没错，我是忠实粉丝。顺便给我那20位听众——估计就是各位——提个建议：请注册SkyMiles或航空公司常旅客计划。当然我们最推荐达美...

Yep. I'm a big I'm a big fan. And, also, I will say advice to my 20 listeners, which is probably all of you, please sign up for SkyMiles or please sign up for a loyalty program with your airline. Obviously, we're hoping that it's Delta for

谢谢。

Thank you.

...为了亨利。这事我真该早点开始。前几天跑步俱乐部有位朋友展示了她多年累积的航空里程，我们算了算——那还只是日常出行：回乡奔丧、出差公干...

For Henry. But it it it's like this thing that I wish I'd started doing earlier, and I I was actually at my run club the other day, and my friend was showing me all the air miles that she had accumulated over, like, years of travel. And we did the math, and this was just, like, incidental travel. Like, she's going home for a funeral. She had to fly for work.

去年她去欧洲玩，攒的里程都够免费飞纽约了。这就像投资，你只需正常出行就能获得回报。我总觉得多花50、75美元选同一家航空公司绝对值得...

You know? She went to Europe last year, and we were looking at all the miles, and it was like she could go to New York for free. It's like it's like an investment. It's it's like investing, and it's you literally aren't doing anything other than just doing the normal travel that you would do. But if you I always think it's worth paying more to travel with the same airline Yeah.

...毕竟最终能换免费机票。很高兴你提到这个。最后问两个问题：根据你的经验...

Because you get these perks and because you get this thing at the end of the day. Like, it's worth the $50 more, the $75 more because you literally get free flights out of it. So I'm glad you brought that up. I do have one final question for you because we've been chatting away for a while. Maybe two final questions, but I'm gonna start with this one, which is from your experience.

从年轻时到现在，你最希望二十多岁的年轻人了解哪些乘机经验或改变哪些做法？有什么建议？

From your experience when you were younger to where you are now, what is one thing you wish people in their twenties knew about travel or did differently about air travel? What's a piece of advice for us?

我意识到很少有人专为攒里程乘机。人们出行总有目的——商务、度假、奔丧...对吧？

One of the things I think, you know, what I've realized is very few people get on a plane to get miles. Right? When people get on a plane to travel to somewhere, no one's doing it just to get their sky miles or loyalty perks, people get on a plane for a reason. And that reason could be business, that reason could be for pleasure, that reason could be a funeral. Right?

每个人登机时都有自己的目的。我认为2025年的旅行已变得如此普及且不同。对我改变最大的是自我关爱。无论你乘坐头等舱、商务舱还是挤在飞机后排的中间座位，都有方法通过自我关爱让旅程更舒适。达美航空将竭尽所能提供个性化服务，提升您的体验。

Everybody's got a purpose when they get on the plane. And I think travel in 2025 has become so ubiquitous and different now. The thing that's made the most difference for me is self care. And whether you're flying premium and first class or you're in the back of the plane in the middle row, there are things you can do to make that experience better for yourself in terms of self care. Delta's gonna do everything possible to personalize, to enhance your experience.

现在我出行必带的是记忆棉眼罩，它能覆盖整个面部。还有护颈枕，防止睡着时落枕。我还会提醒自己多喝水保持水分。这些基础改变如果我们都能记住的话...

But things that I do now that I don't travel without are I love my eye mask that's memory foam and goes over my face. I love my sleep pillow that, you know, prevents me from having a crick on my neck if I fall asleep. And I remind myself to drink a lot of water and drink a lot of hydration. And that is, you know, sort of foundational change if we can all remember that.

补充一下，降噪耳机各位。对，必须投资

Also, to add to your list, noise canceling headphones, guys. Yeah. Yeah. You've got to invest

一副

in a

这样的设备。

lot of those.

是啊，这是个新世界对吧？突然就安静了。

Yeah. It's a new world. Right? It's like, hey. It's quiet.

没错，我第一次买降噪耳机是因为...其实我们没聊过这个，我以前有严重的飞行恐惧症。不知道怎么就...

I know. The first time I ever bought noise canceling headphones was like when because I actually don't we haven't talked about this at all, but I used to have a really big fear of flying. And which is I don't know how this hasn't come up, but other listeners know.

杰玛，我想告诉你，商业航空可能是最安全的出行方式。比开车安全，比在纽约街头步行还安全。事故率极低，尽管有些新闻报道，但航空依然非常安全。全球航空公司在各方面竞争，唯独安全标准是统一的。

Gemma, I would tell you, and I wanna reassure you, commercial airline flying is probably one of the safest activities you can do. It's safer than driving, and it's safer than walking on the streets of New York. In terms of accidents, we really don't see them. Despite some of the things you see, it is still absolutely very safe. And I can tell you that the airlines across the world compete on everything except safety.

无论是法航、荷航还是达美，我们都遵循相同的安全协议，致力于成为最安全的交通方式，没有例外。你现在很安全，希望这能减轻你的飞行焦虑。

You know, whether you're Air France, KLM, Delta, we all share safety protocols, and we strive to be the safest form of travel, period, full stop. And I think you're in good hands. I hope you feel safer and better about flying.

确实。听到这个行业小秘密了各位！我之前真不知道，现在感觉好多了。

I do. Look at that little industry secret, guys. That is actually I did not know that. That makes me feel a lot better. Yeah.

我想我们的时间就到这里了。非常感谢你加入我，分享你所有的知识和见解，以及最新的精彩动态。我认为这期节目的真正启示是要有意识地规划你的旅行，并在旅途中注重自我关怀。你同意吗？

I think this is all we have time for. I wanna thank you so much for joining me and with all your knowledge and all your insight and sharing, like, the latest and greatest developments. I think the real takeaway from this episode is just to be intentional about your trip and to be intentional about self care on your trip. Would you agree?

完全同意。确实需要有意识地去规划。而且，从我们创作者的旅行经历来看，我想给听众的最后建议是：找到能让你感觉更好、带给你快乐的事情。对盖比来说是弹吉他，对卢安来说是写日记。

Absolutely. It's absolutely to be intentional. And and, you know, from our creators on their trips, the last thing I would advise your listeners is find out what makes you feel better and brings you joy. And for Gabe, it was playing his guitar. For Luan, it was journaling.

西米也喜欢写日记。对索菲来说则是做按摩。但我们每个人都有能带来快乐、帮助我们恢复精力的事情，这就是自我关怀的重要组成部分。所以珍娜，感谢这次机会，真的很高兴能和你交谈。

Simi also enjoyed journaling. For Sophie, it was getting a massage. But each of us has something that brings us joy and helps us restore ourselves and that self care component. So thank you for this opportunity, Jenna. I really appreciated talking with you.

是的。伙计们，不要因为旅行就忽视了这一点。你肯定不想回来后还需要从假期中再休个假。再次感谢所有收听和参与这期节目的朋友。我邀请大家去YouTube观看《飞得更好，活得更好》系列节目。

Yeah. Don't neglect it just because you're traveling, guys. You don't wanna come back and and need another vacation from your vacation. Thank you again to everyone who has listened and who has joined us for this episode. I wanna invite you to watch the Fly and Live Better series on YouTube.

这个节目非常非常酷，我喜欢公司自己做研究，为日常体验带来实验性的视角。我会在描述中留下链接，同时建议大家加入SkyMiles以获得更多体验。这是我给二十多岁人群的最大建议：加入一个忠诚度计划，加入SkyMiles。

It is very, very cool, and I love when companies do their own research and bring, like, an experimental perspective to an everyday experience. I'm gonna leave a link in the description, and also join SkyMiles for access to more experiences. That's my biggest tip, for people in their twenties. Join a loyalty program. Join SkyMiles.

即使你一年只旅行一次，你也不知道它能积累多少。但再次感谢亨利，一如既往，注意安全，善待他人，也善待自己。我们很快会再聊。

Even if you literally only travel once a year, you have no idea how much it adds up. But again, thank you to Henry, and as always, be safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself. We will talk very, very soon.

我男朋友的教授太过友好了，我现在非常怀疑。等一下，山姆。

My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Wait a minute, Sam.

也许你男朋友只是想多拿点学分。

Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit.

好吧，达科塔，幸运的是，Okay Storytime播客正在播出返校周特辑，所以我们很快就会知道。这位听众写道：我男朋友最近经常和他年轻的教授在一起。他不觉得有问题，但我不信任她。现在他坚持要我们互相了解，但我只想让她消失。

Well, Dakota, luckily, it's back to school week on the Okay Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend's been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone.

等等，这难道不违反学校规定吗？这看起来很不合适。

Now hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That seems inappropriate.

也许吧。想知道结局如何，请收听Okay Storytime播客，可在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或任何你获取播客的平台收听。

Maybe. Find out how it ends by listening to the Okay Storytime podcast and the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

这是iHeart出品的播客节目。

This is an iHeart podcast.