353. 完美主义的心理学

这是iHeart播客《保证真实》。

This is an iHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.

你知道这里的八卦总是最劲爆的。

You know the shade is always shadiest right here.

播客第六季《适度八卦》由吉赛尔·布莱恩和罗宾·迪克森主持，每周一准时更新。

Season six of the podcast, reasonably shady with Giselle Bryan and Robin Dixon is here dropping every Monday.

作为《波托马克的真实主妇》的两位创始成员，我们将为您带来所有能承受的笑料、戏剧和真人新闻。

As two of the founding members of the Real Housewives of Potomac, we're giving you all the laughs, drama, and reality news you can handle.

你知道我们从不保留，所以每周一和我们一起适度八卦吧。

And you know we don't hold back, so come be reasonable or shady with us each and every Monday.

在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或任何你获取播客的地方收听来自Black Effect播客网络的《适度八卦》。

Listen to reasonably shady from the black effect podcast network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

我是罗伯特·史密斯，这位是雅各布·戈德斯坦。

I'm Robert Smith, and this is Jacob Goldstein.

我们曾经主持过一个叫《金钱星球》的节目。

And we used to host a show called planet money.

现在我们回来制作这档名为《商业历史》的新播客，讲述历史上最伟大的创意、人物和企业。

And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history.

也包括商业史上一些最糟糕的人物、可怕的想法和具有破坏性的公司。

And some of the worst people, horrible ideas, and destructive companies in the history of business.

第一期节目：西南航空如何利用廉价座位和免费威士忌在航空业中杀出一条血路

First episode, how Southwest Airlines used cheap seats and free whiskey to fight its way into the airline

行业。

business.

最具德州特色的故事。

The most Texas story ever.

收听商业历史

Listen to business history

在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或您获取播客的任何平台。

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts Or wherever you get your podcasts.

这部剧超前于时代，以电视前所未见的方式展现了一个黑人家庭。

The show was ahead of its time to represent a black family in ways that television hadn't shown before.

确实如此。

Exactly.

这是特尔玛·霍普金斯，也被称为瑞秋阿姨。

It's Telma Hopkins, also known as aunt Rachel.

我是凯莉·威廉姆斯，也就是劳拉·温斯洛。

And I'm Kelly Williams or Laura Winslow.

在我们的播客《欢迎来到家庭》中，与特尔玛和凯莉一起。

On our podcast, welcome to the family with Telma and Kelly.

我们正在重温《家庭琐事》的每一集。

We're rewatching every episode of family matters.

我们会分享节目制作背后的故事。

We'll share behind the scenes stories about making the show.

没错。

Yeah.

我们还会邀请一些特别嘉宾来爆料些内幕。

We'll even bring in some special guests to spill some tea.

欢迎收听iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或其他播客平台上的《与Thelma和Kelly一起欢迎回家》节目。

Listen to welcome to the family with Thelma and Kelly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

如果我们中有人赢了，我们就都赢了。

If one of us wins, we all win.

我是Ashley Raifelt，播客《祝你好运》的主持人。

I'm Ashley Raifelt, the host of the podcast, Good Luck With That.

《祝你好运》是一档关于女性及性别多元滑板运动过去、现在与未来的滑板主题播客。

Good Luck With That is a skateboarding podcast about the past, present, and future of women and gender expansive skateboarding.

在节目中，我们将与Bobby Delfino等滑手探讨如何推动风格、文化及话题的前沿发展。

In our show, we'll talk with skaters like Bobby Delfino on pushing style, culture, and the conversation forward.

你撞开了那扇门，很酷，现在要为所有人扶着门。

You break down the door, sick, now, like, hold the door for everyone.

我坚信这一点。

I believe in that solely.

请在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或其他播客平台收听《祝你好运》节目。

So listen to good luck with that on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

医生。

Doctor.

我是幸福实验室的劳里·桑托斯。

Laurie Santos from the Happiness Lab here.

现在是给予的季节，今年我的播客《幸福实验室》与非营利组织GiveDirectly合作，作为PODS抗击贫困活动的一部分，为极端贫困人群提供所需现金。

It's the season of giving, and this year, my podcast, the Happiness Lab, is partnering with GiveDirectly, a nonprofit that provides people in extreme poverty with the cash they need as part of the PODS Fight Poverty campaign.

我们今年的目标是筹集100万美元，这将帮助700多个家庭摆脱极端贫困。

Our goal this year is to raise $1,000,000, which will bring over 700 families out of extreme poverty.

您的捐款将直接送到这些需要帮助的家庭手中，由他们决定如何使用，无论是用于学校交通、购买牲畜还是创业。

Your donation will put cash directly in the hands of these families in need, and they'll get to decide how to use it, whether that's school transportation, purchasing livestock, or starting a business.

此外，如果您是首次捐赠者，您的善款将通过Giving Multiplier获得等额匹配，这意味着贫困人群将获得更多帮助。

Plus, if you're a first time donor, your gift will be matched by Giving Multiplier, which means more money for those in need.

访问givedirectly.org/happinesslab了解更多信息并进行捐赠。

Visit givedirectly.org/happinesslab to learn more and to donate.

网址是givedirectly.org/happinesslab。

That's givedirectly.org/happinesslab.

大家好。

Hello, everybody.

我是杰玛·斯派克，欢迎回到《二十几岁的心理学》，这档播客我们将探讨二十多岁时最重大的变化、时刻与转折点，以及它们对我们心理的影响。

I'm Gemma Spike, and welcome back to the psychology of your twenties, the podcast where we talk through the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and what they mean for our psychology.

大家好。

Hello, everybody.

欢迎回到节目。

Welcome back to the show.

欢迎回到播客。

Welcome back to the podcast.

无论你是新听众还是老听众，无论身处世界何处，很高兴能再次与你们共度新的一期节目。

New listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world, it's so great to have you here back for another episode.

今天为大家准备了另一期特别节目。

We've got another bonus episode for you today.

这些短篇内容与我们平常的深度探讨有些不同。

These shorter episodes are a little bit different from our usual deep dives.

可以把它们想象成心理学小零食时间，我们会拆解某个特定术语、理论或心理学概念，这些内容可能在网络上被误解或被随意使用。

Think of them as like little psychology snack breaks where we unpack a singular term, singular theory or psychological concept that might be misunderstood or just thrown around pretty casually online.

有些术语可能不够支撑一整期五十分钟的节目，但我仍然非常想探讨它们。

Terms that we might not be able to do like a full fifty minute episode on but I still really want to cover.

而今天的话题，对于一期迷你节目来说其实是个大主题。

And today's topic, it actually is a big one for a mini episode.

我们要讨论完美主义。

We're gonna talk about perfectionism.

你们知道我前几天意识到什么吗？

You know what I realized the other day?

我意识到。

I realized.

我做这个播客已经快五年了。

I have been doing this podcast for nearly five years.

我居然从未单独做过一期纯粹关于完美主义的节目。

I have never just done a standalone episode purely on perfectionism.

这很讽刺，因为它可能是我比其他任何事都更挣扎的课题。

Which is ironic because it's probably the thing that I like struggle with more than anything else.

你无法想象我录了多少期永远不会发布的播客，只因我觉得它们不够好。

You have no idea how many podcast episodes I have recorded that will never see the light of day because I didn't think they were good enough.

几十期。

Dozens.

可能更多。

Probably more than that.

这还不包括那些未完成的脚本。

And that's not even including the scripts.

你知道我有多少想法因为害怕开始而从未付诸行动吗？

You know, how many ideas that I have that I've never acted on because I'm too afraid to start.

我花了多少时间空想着如何擅长某事，却从未真正实践。

How many hours I spend thinking about how to be good at something and never actually doing anything about it.

大概不用我说你也知道——这种感觉令人精疲力竭。

I probably don't need to tell you It's an exhausting feeling.

完美主义是一种令人心力交瘁的心理状态，今天我想谈谈这个话题。

Perfectionism is an exhausting state of mind and I want to talk about it today.

广义上说，完美主义的基本特征是对过高标准的追求，以及要求一切必须完美无瑕。

Broadly speaking, perfectionism is basically characterized by the need for excessively high standards and the need for everything to be flawless.

它并非心理健康问题，而更像是一种许多人共有的性格特质。

It's not a mental health condition, but it is kind of like a personality trait almost that a lot of us have.

老实说，这属于那种初听起来还挺不错的特质之一。

It is one of those traits that in all honesty sounds kind of good at first.

当有人说自己是个完美主义者时，我们通常不会对他们有负面看法。

When someone says I'm a perfectionist, you know, we don't always think poorly of them.

我们会觉得他们能力出众、工作努力、标准严苛，对自己所做的事极度认真。

We think they're really good at things, they work really hard, they have high standards, they care deeply about what they do.

我敢肯定很多人在求职面试时被问过：你最大的缺点是什么？

I am sure so many people have been asked in job interviews, you know, what's your worst trait?

他们回答'完美主义'，因为他们知道这听起来像是优点——这正是人们常因此获得赞赏的原因。

And they've said perfectionist because they know it kind of makes them sound good and that's why people are so often applauded for it.

人们为这些过高的标准鼓掌喝彩，仿佛它们是荣誉勋章。

They're applauded for these excessive high standards like it's a badge of honor.

我会比任何人都更努力工作，因为我永远无法向自己证明我足够优秀。

I will work harder than anyone because I am never able to prove I'm good enough to myself.

完美主义的本质并非追求卓越，而常常源于恐惧。

Underneath perfectionism, it's not about excellence, it's often about fear.

它源于内心持续不断的担忧——害怕自己会达不到标准。

It's about the underlying constant worry that you're going to fall short.

害怕如果不够完美，自己就一无是处。

That if you are not perfect, you are not enough.

你将毫无价值。

You have no value.

你的生活失去意义。

Your life lacks meaning.

人们永远不会爱你。

People will never love you.

这种心理负担来得又快又重。

It gets pretty psychologically heavy pretty quickly.

我们许多人都背负着这种压力，尤其是在二三十岁时，总觉得所有事情都应该提前规划好。

So many of us live with that kind of pressure especially in our twenties and thirties when everything feels like it's supposed to be figured out ahead of schedule.

2022年一项针对16至25岁年轻人的研究发现，85%的参与者承认具有完美主义特质，尤其在学业成就方面。

A 2022 study of young people aged 16 to 25 actually found that eighty five percent of participants identified as having perfectionist traits, particularly around academic achievement.

但完美主义的表现形式可以多种多样。

But it can be so many things.

可能是对理想职业的执念、对自己身材的苛求、对感情状态的焦虑，或是人生时间表的规划。

It can be obsessing over the right career, how your body looks, how your relationship looks, your timeline.

本质上，我们已经习惯将成就等同于外在表现、外在价值，进而等同于自我价值。

Basically, we've learned to equate achievement with external appearances and external value and therefore self worth.

但现实是，完美主义带来的不是成功，而是精疲力竭。

But the reality is perfectionism doesn't drive success as much as it actually drives exhaustion.

它根本不是我们以为的那种超能力。

It is not the superpower that we all believe it is.

在深入探讨之前，我们实际上需要先谈谈完美主义的主要类型。

Before we go further, we actually need to talk about the main types of perfectionism.

完美主义并非只有一种。

There is not just one.

它远比单纯追求优秀要复杂得多。

It is a lot more complex than just wanting things to be good.

这种特质实际上有三种主要表现形式。

There are actually three main strains or versions of this trait.

第一种是自我导向型完美主义。

The first one is self orientated perfectionism.

这种类型表现为给自己设定不可能实现的标准，源于一种内在驱动力——要向自己证明你能掌控人生、拥有价值、可以成就非凡。

This is when you set your own impossible standards and it's about an internal drive to prove to yourself that you know you can control your life, that you have value, that you can do good things.

是你自己在告诉自己不能犯错。

You're the one telling yourself that you can't make mistakes.

是你内心住着个永不知足的苛刻批评者，无论你做得多么出色。

You're the one who has this relentless internal critic that is never satisfied no matter how well you do.

然后是他人导向型完美主义者。

Then there is the other oriented perfectionist.

这一类型有些不同。

This one's a little bit different.

它表现为你以对自己同样的苛刻标准来要求身边的人。

It's when you hold the people around you to the same impossible standards you hold yourself to.

这可能体现在你的恋爱关系、友谊或工作中。

Maybe this shows up in your relationships, friendships, at work.

你希望世界是完美的。

You want the world to be perfect.

你希望别人能像你鞭策自己那样鞭策他们自己。

You want people to push themselves the way you push yourself.

你期望他人能达到你那种精确和用心的程度，当他们做不到时，就会引发许多紧张和失望。

You expect others to meet your level of precision, care and that can cause a lot of tension and disappointment when they don't.

这也驱使你试图以身作则。

It also drives you to try and lead by example.

所以年长的兄弟姐妹、运动队队长、老板，甚至父母经常会有这种感觉。

So older siblings, sports captains, bosses, even parents get this feeling a lot.

最后我们还有社会规定的完美主义。

And finally we have socially prescribed perfectionism.

这是近年来变得日益严重的一种。

This is the one that's become increasingly massive in recent years.

这种感觉认为其他人都很完美，其他人都期望你做到完美。

It is the feeling that everyone else is perfect, everyone else expects you to be perfect.

这是一种你时刻被关注、评判、评价，因此必须保持状态的感觉。

It's the feeling that you're constantly being watched, judged, evaluated and so you have to keep up.

你必须看起来像那么回事。

You have to look the part.

社会规定的完美主义与我们当前的文化紧密相连。

Socially prescribed perfectionism is deeply tied to our current culture.

当然，社交媒体、攀比心理、网络文化，这种持续微妙的表演压力，这种被看见的感觉，正是这种形式的完美主义随时间显著增长的原因。

Of course, social media, comparison, our online culture, this constant subtle pressure to perform, this sense of being visible and that is why this form perfectionism has grown so significantly over time.

2019年《心理学期刊》发表了一篇综述，以大学生为研究对象，分析了1989年至2016年间美国、英国和加拿大完美主义水平的变化。

There was a 2019 review published in the journal Psychological Bulletin which looked at changes in levels of perfectionism between 1989 and 2016 in The US, in The UK and in Canada using college students as the participant group.

研究发现，所有类型的完美主义确实都随时间推移而上升。

What they found was that yes, all types of perfectionism rose over time.

但社会期许型完美主义的增长尤为显著。

Socially prescribed perfectionism though has risen so significantly.

以至于它已成为当下最常见的完美主义形态。

Such that it is the most common form of perfectionism that we currently see.

研究者对此表示担忧，因为这表明青少年和二十多岁的年轻人对外部压力越来越敏感，他们比前几代人更难应对压力并找回自我平衡。

And the researchers noted this as a concern because what this indicates is that young people, people in their teens, in their twenties are becoming increasingly more sensitive to external pressures and they are finding it more difficult than previous generations to cope and to re center themselves.

最残酷的转折在于：

Here is the final twist of the knife here.

社会期许型完美主义实际上是三种类型中最具破坏性的。

Socially prescribed perfectionism is actually the most debilitating of all three types of perfectionism.

更广泛的研究始终将其与相当严重的健康问题相关联。

And wider research consistently connects it to pretty major health concerns.

焦虑、抑郁，甚至饮食失调，当然，如果我们不断通过他人、通过人们的期望、通过这些成功标准来衡量自我价值，除非你在生活的每个领域和维度都做到最好，否则你就是不够格的。

Anxiety, depression, even eating disorders, of course, you know, if we're constantly measuring our worth through others, through people's expectations, through these metrics of success, unless you are the very best in every domain and dimension of life, you are falling short.

所以你干脆就当最差的好了。

So you may as well be the worst.

完美主义之所以如此有害，正是因为它深刻体现了非黑即白的思维模式。

Perfectionism is so harmful in that way because it deeply embodies black and white thinking.

要么我是第一，要么我一文不值。

Either I'm number one or I'm nothing.

要么我全部做对，要么我就该放弃。

Either I get everything right or I should give up.

这种思维把标准抬得如此之高，以至于我们实际上无法在这样的条件下运作。

This raises the stakes so high that we actually can't operate under these conditions.

于是你拖延、逃避开始、把自己逼到绝境、越来越在意他人看法——直到最终一事无成。

And so you procrastinate, you avoid starting, you work yourself to the point of no return, you become more obsessive about what other people think until you can't achieve anything.

现在要揭露完美主义最狡猾的把戏：在我们的文化中，完美主义经常被伪装成自律。

Now here's where perfectionism gets really sneaky because in our culture, perfectionism is often disguised as discipline.

因此即使感觉糟糕，表面看起来却很好。

And so even when it feels bad, it looks good.

我们还说服自己这也应该感觉良好。

And we convince ourselves that it should feel good as well.

我们很勤奋。

We are hardworking.

我们很专注。

We are committed.

我们注重细节。

We are detail orientated.

这些都是值得钦佩的品质。

These things are all admirable.

但事实上，我们中许多人——这些从小被培养的完美主义者开始意识到：这个特质所承诺的美好愿景完全是个谎言。

Except actually a lot of us, a lot of people who are born and raised perfectionists are starting to realize that like the dream we are sold by this trait is a complete lie.

实际上，我们永远无法真正对自己所拥有的感到满足。

And actually, we will never ever get to a point where we are actually satisfied with what we have.

这只会让我们陷入循环。

It just keeps us in the cycle.

当然，自律和勤奋都是优秀的品质。

And now discipline, being hardworking, those are great traits.

那么我们该如何区分这种永不满足的追求完美与真正努力追求热爱之事的渴望呢？

So how do we tell the difference between this insatiable need to be the best and to never make mistakes and this desire to truly work hard for something and to really be passionate.

我们可以通过动机来辨别两者的区别。

We tell the difference through motivation.

我们的动力是什么？

What is our motivation?

自律源于成长。

Discipline is motivated by growth.

我们想要做好是因为我们关心正在做的事，并且享受挑战的过程，无论成功与否。

We wanna do well because we care about whatever it is we're doing and we like the challenge whether we fail or not.

显然我们都想成功，但这个过程本身就让我们充满活力、感到兴奋并乐在其中。

We obviously wanna succeed, but the process is something that we are invigorated by, excited by, enjoying.

完美主义是由恐惧驱动的。

Perfectionism is motivated by fear.

我们感觉好像不得不这样做。

We feel as though we have to do this.

我们必须表现出色。

We have to do well.

我们必须逼自己一把。

We have to push ourselves.

否则，我们就毫无价值。

Otherwise, we are worthless.

没有人会某天醒来突然决定开始害怕犯错。

No one wakes up one day and just decides they're going to start being terrified of mistakes.

就像大多数根深蒂固的心理模式一样，完美主义很早就开始了。

Like most of our deep rooted psychological patterns, perfectionism begins early.

它始于我们觉得自己需要赢得爱的时候。

It begins when we feel we needed to earn love.

无论是来自家人、朋友、导师，还是其他任何人。

Whether that was from family, from friends, from mentors, from whoever it was.

我们许多人在成长过程中逐渐明白。

A lot of us grow up learning.

无论有意或无意，爱与认可都是需要赢得的。

Consciously or unconsciously, love or approval is earned.

也许你通过好成绩、良好表现、成就或做个省心的孩子来赢得它。

Maybe you earn it through good grades, good behavior, achievements, being the easy child.

久而久之，这就形成了核心信念。

Over time, that creates this core belief.

爱是有条件的。

Love is conditional.

你只有表现得好，才配享受生活和拥有爱。

You only deserve to enjoy life and you only deserve to enjoy love or to have it when you perform.

只有当你做对了的时候。

When you get it right.

所以心理学家称之为有条件关注。

So psychologists call this conditional regard.

这是预测一个人日后形成完美主义倾向的最强因素之一。

It is one of the strongest predictors of perfectionist tendencies later in life.

《人格杂志》发表的研究发现，当父母只在孩子达到期望时才表达关爱或赞许，而在孩子失败时收回这些情感，这些孩子更容易内化一种有条件自我价值的观念。

Research published in the Journal of Personality found that when parents express affection or approval only when their children meet expectations and when they withdraw it when they fail, those children are more likely to internalize a sense of conditional worth.

他们在成长过程中会认为犯错等同于深层次的心理拒绝，认为必须不断奋斗和取得成就才能被爱。

They grow up feeling that mistake equals deep psychological rejection and that to be loved they have to constantly strive and achieve.

另一项大约2005年的研究发现，经历过这种有条件养育、有条件关爱的青少年，即使多年后仍表现出高度的自我批判式完美主义和内化压力。

Another study published in, I think it was 2005, found that adolescents who were exposed to this kind of unconditional, sorry, conditional parenting, conditional love, showed high levels of self critical perfectionism and internalized pressure even years down the line.

这种特质已成为他们自我认知、行为模式以及未来数十年人生表现的根本组成部分。

This part of them became fundamental to how they saw themselves and how they operated and how they showed up years and years into the future.

另一个相关因素是不安全感和自我价值的作用。

Another element of this is also the role of insecurity and self worth.

这不仅关乎爱，更关乎你如何看待自己的价值。

It's not just about love, it's about how you see yourself as valuable.

如果在你的内心深处，你不觉得自己天生就有价值、足够好或被看见，如果你内化了这样一种信念：'只有当我有所成就或产出时，我才是有价值的'，那么完美主义就是你用来弥补内心缺失感的一种方式。

If at your core you don't feel inherently worthy or good or seen, if you've internalized the belief that I'm only good when I achieve or I have output, perfectionism is a way to compensate for what you feel like you're lacking.

我对这一点深有体会。

I relate to this deeply.

我成长过程中格格不入，没有真正的知心朋友，长相不出众，也不受欢迎，确实没什么特别之处。

I didn't fit in growing up, I didn't really have good friends, I wasn't hot, I wasn't popular, I really wasn't anything special.

但我可以努力学习，取得好成绩。

But I could work hard and I could get good grades.

于是这种追求——我很清楚自己的这个特点，我知道我能逼自己前进。

And so that pursuit, this this I knew this about myself, I knew I could push myself.

这成了我的身份标识，也成了我在一个原本找不到位置、没有归属感的环境里获得自我认同的方式。

That became my identity and it became a way to feel good about myself in an environment where I previously didn't and where I didn't have a role and where I didn't belong.

它对我的自尊心起到了极强的保护作用。

And it was deeply protective of my ego.

这正是卡尔·罗杰斯等人本主义心理学家数十年来一直在探讨的课题。

This is something that humanistic psychologists like Carl Rogers have written about for decades.

当一个人的自我价值建立在外部事物上时，真实的自我就会被这种理想化的自我所取代。

When somebody's self worth is based on external things, the authentic self gets replaced with this ideal self.

那个版本的我们永远在追逐、渴望成为，却始终感觉遥不可及。

That's the version of us that we're always striving, chasing, wanting to be but we never quite feel like we will get there.

这是个天大的谎言，对吧？

It's a big fat lie, right?

我们总以为只要不断延展、逼迫自己、工作、做得更多，就能到达满足的彼岸。

We have this idea that if we just extend, push, work, do more we will get to a place of satisfaction.

那是个谎言。

That is a lie.

这是个心理庞氏骗局，它诱使你不断投入，告诉你只要达成下一个目标就能获得满足感，却从不兑现承诺。

It is a mental Ponzi scheme that tells you to invest more, that tells you just to get to the next target and you'll finally feel good but never rewards you.

我们形成完美主义的最终原因，实际上与控制感密切相关。

The final reason we develop perfectionism is actually really about control.

我觉得很少人从这个角度讨论这个问题，但稍事休息后我们将深入探讨这一点。

I don't feel like a lot of people talk about it from this angle, but we're gonna consider this deeply in just a second after this short break.

请继续关注我们。

Stay with us.

二十五年来，我一直在探索治愈的意义，不仅为了自己，也为了陪伴他人。

For twenty five years, I've explored what it means to heal, not just for myself, but alongside others.

我是迈克·德拉罗查。

I'm Mike Della Rocha.

这里是《神圣课程》，一个用于反思、成长和集体疗愈的空间。

This is Sacred Lessons, a space for reflection, growth, and collective healing.

你会对那些正在受伤的男性说些什么？

What do you tell men that are hurting right now?

一切都会好起来的，你知道的，坚持下去就好。

Everything's gonna be okay on the other side, you know, just push through it.

讽刺的是，你知道，'精神'这个词的词根其实是'呼吸'。

And, you know, ironically, the root of the word spirit is breath.

哇。

Wow.

正因如此，呼吸本身就是人类能做的最具革命性的行为之一。

Which is why one of the most revolutionary acts that we can do as people is just breathe.

紧邻着

Next to the

伤口之处往往藏着礼物。

wound is there are gifts.

若不经历创伤，你就无法发现自己的天赋。

You can't find your gifts unless you go through the wound.

这才是最困难的部分。

That's the hard thing.

人们总想着：我要直接获得天赋

You think, well, I'm gonna get my gifts.

却不愿经历那些磨难。

I don't wanna go through all that.

你必须穿越那些创伤的

You gotta go through the wounds of

你的左侧。

your left.

倾听他人的濒死体验，这就是他们所说的全部。

Listening to other people's near death experiences, and it's all they say.

总而言之，爱就是答案。

In conclusion, love is the answer.

请收听《神圣课程》作为My Gutura播客网络的一部分，可在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或您获取播客的任何平台上找到。

Listen to Sacred Lessons as part of the My Gutura podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

嘿。

Hey.

我是艾德·赫尔姆斯，欢迎回到《一团糟》，我的关于历史上最大失误的播客。

It's Ed Helms, and welcome back to SNAFU, my podcast about history's greatest screw ups.

在新一季中，我们将每集为您带来一个新的混乱故事。

On our new season, we're bringing you a new SNAFU every single episode.

32枚遗失的核武器？

32 lost nuclear weapons?

你好像在说，等等

You're like, wait.

停下

Stop.

什么？

What?

什么？

What?

厄尼·沙克尔顿听起来像是个七十年代实力派篮球运动员。

Ernie Shackleton sounds like a solid seventies basketball player.

还戴着护膝的那种。

Who still wore knee pads.

没错。

Yes.

我们将带来大量历史故事、无数笑料和众多嘉宾。

It's gonna be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of guests.

伟大的保罗·希尔让我感觉很好。

The great Paul Scheer made me feel good.

我心想，哦，哇。

I'm like, oh, wow.

安吉拉和珍娜，你们能来我太兴奋了。

Angela and Jenna, I am so psyched you're here.

对你来说，这样低调地加入节目是什么感觉？

What was that like for you to soft launch into the show?

抱歉，珍娜。

Sorry, Jenna.

今天将由我来提问。

I'll be asking the questions today.

我忘了我们是在录谁的播客了。

I forgot whose podcast we were doing.

尼克·克罗尔，希望这个故事足够精彩，能让你放下那个三明治。

Nick Kroll, I hope this story is good enough to get you to toss that sandwich.

那我们就看看情况如何吧。

So let's let's let's see how it goes.

请在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何你获取播客的平台收听第四季《Snafu with Ed Helms》。

Listen to season four of Snafu with Ed Helms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

你好。

Hi.

我是Radhi DeVlukia，《A Really Good Cry》播客的主持人。

I'm Radhi DeVlukia, and I am the host of A Really Good Cry podcast.

本周，我邀请到了Anna Runkle，也被称为'糟糕童年仙女'，她是一位创作者、教师和指导者，帮助人们治愈不安全或混乱童年留下的情感创伤。

This week, I am joined by Anna Runkle, also known as the crappy childhood fairy, a creator, teacher, and guide helping people heal from the lasting emotional wounds of unsafe or chaotic childhoods.

我们讨论了年轻时经历的事情如何仍会在成年生活中显现，影响我们的关系、反应，甚至我们对自己身体的感受。

We talk about how the things we went through when we were younger can still show up in our adult lives, in our relationships, our reactions, even in the way we feel in our own bodies.

Anna还分享了她自己的故事，是什么帮助她注意到自己陷入的模式，以及她如何慢慢教会自己的身体现在它是安全的。

And Anna opens up about her own story, what helped her notice the patterns she was stuck in, and how she slowly started teaching her body that it is safe now.

当我被袭击时，那完全是个意外。

So when I got attacked, it was very random.

四个人从车里跳出来就开始打我，他们打断了我的下巴和牙齿。

Four guys jumped out of a car and just started beating me And and my they broke my jaw and my teeth.

我当时失去了意识。

I was unconscious.

后来我醒过来就开始尖叫。

Then I woke up and I screamed.

我尖叫是因为尽管我不知道自己是谁、身在何处，但内心有个声音告诉我坚持住。

And I screamed because even though I didn't know who I was or where I was, something in me was just like, hold on.

等等。

Wait.

他们可能会杀了我，但我绝不会让这种事发生。

They could kill me, I'm not gonna let that happen.

我绝不会让这种事发生。

I'm not gonna let that happen.

我一定要挺过去。

I'm gonna get through this.

而我做到了。

And I did.

请在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或你获取播客的任何平台收听《A Really Good Cry》。

Listen to A Really Good Cry on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

在《健康那些事》播客中，我们将探讨所有让你夜不能寐的健康问题。

On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.

是的，我是医生。

Yes, I'm Doctor.

普里扬卡·沃利，双重认证的执业医师。

Priyanka Wally, a double board certified physician.

我是哈里·昆达博卢，一名喜剧演员，也是曾在凌晨3点搜索‘我是不是得了坏血病？’的人。

And I'm Hari Kundabolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, Do I have scurvy at 3AM?

在《健康那些事》中，我们以不同的方式探讨健康话题。

On Health Stuff, we're talking about health in a different way.

这不仅关乎我们可以做些什么来改善健康。

It's not only about what we can do to improve our health.

还包括我们的健康状况如何反映我们的生活方式。

But also what our health says about us and the way we're living.

比如我们探讨糖尿病的那期节目。

Like our episode where we look at diabetes.

在美国，我是说，50%的美国人都处于糖尿病前期。

In The United States, I mean, fifty percent of Americans are pre diabetic.

二型糖尿病有多可预防？

How preventable is type two?

非常可预防。

Extremely.

或者我们对芒果神奇之处的深入分析。

Or our in-depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are.

哦，很难向世界其他地方解释，你们觉得自己的芒果不错，因为芒果确实很棒，但你们根本不知道（真正的好芒果什么样）。

Oh, it's hard to explain to rest of the world that you like, your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible, but, like, you don't even know.

你们不知道（真正的好芒果什么样）。

You don't know.

你不知道。

You don't know.

这将是一段有趣的旅程，敬请收听。

It's going to be a fun ride, so tune in.

在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或你获取播客的任何地方收听健康相关内容。

Listen to health stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

我是伊娃·朗格利亚。

I'm Eva Longoria.

我是梅塔戈梅斯约翰。

And I'm Maytagomesjohn.

在我们的播客《渴求历史》中，我们融合了两大最爱：美食与历史。

And on our podcast, Hungry for History, we mix two of our favorite things, food and history.

古雅典人曾将名字刻在牡蛎壳上投票放逐政客，他们称这些为陶片放逐。

Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells, and they called these ostracon to vote politicians into exile.

所以我们现代英语中'ostracized'（放逐）这个词与牡蛎(oyster)同源。

So our word ostracized is related to the word oyster.

不可能。

No way.

把陶片放逐法带回来。

Bring back the Ostercon.

因为我们节目氛围很友好，朋友们总会顺道来访。

And because we've got a very kind of vibe on our show, friends always stop by.

几乎进入地球这一侧的所有入口都是通过

Pretty much every entry into this side of the planet was through the

教育权利。

education rights.

芥菜籽对古埃及人来说非常珍贵，他们常将其放入墓中

Mustard seeds were so valuable to the ancient Egyptians that they used to place them in their tombs

供来世使用。

for the afterlife.

请收听《历史的味道》作为My Cultura播客网络的一部分，可在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何你获取播客的地方收听。

Listen to Hungry for History as part of the My Cultura podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

完美主义有时会发展成一种方式，不仅是为了感受爱与被重视，更是为了应对焦虑或生活的不可预测性，因为它给人一种心理暗示：只要我们足够努力、反复检查无数次、

Perfectionism can sometimes develop as a way not just to feel love, not just to feel worthy, but to manage our anxiety or the unpredictability of life because it gives this mental impression that if we just work hard enough, if we just check over things a million times, if

我们

we

预演所有情况、列出无数待办事项，就能掌控生活抛给我们的一切。

rehearse everything, have a million to do lists, we can control whatever life throws at us.

完美主义实际上与对不确定性的极度不耐受密切相关。

Perfectionism is actually really deeply aligned with an intolerance for uncertainty.

我们之前讨论过这个问题，但对不确定性的不耐受是指当我们意识到某些事情不可预测或未知时，所面临的那种额外的痛苦感受。

We've spoken about this before but our intolerance for uncertainty is this extra feeling of distress that we face when we understand that something is unpredictable or unknown.

我们中有些人比其他人更难以忍受这种不确定性。

Some of us are more intolerant than others.

有些人会比其他人感受到更多焦虑。

Some of us face increasing or more anxiety compared to others.

如果你曾经历过不可预测的情况常常导致痛苦——比如冲突、拒绝、批评，而这些是你过去无法应对、缺乏支持或感到不堪重负的。

If you've learned that unpredictable situations often lead to pain like conflict, rejection, criticism that you previously were not able to cope with or didn't feel supported through or were really overwhelmed by.

你可能试图通过完美主义控制的过程来彻底消除不确定性。

You might cope by trying to eliminate uncertainty altogether through the process of perfectionist control.

这是个谎言。

It's a lie.

再次强调，这种感受就像在向你兜售一种理想化的世界观——那些努力工作的人才能获得爱、成就和对世界的掌控。

Again, this whole feeling is just like trying to sell you It's trying to sell you this idealistic view of the world that the people who work hard are the ones who get love and the ones who get achievement and the ones who can control the world.

它试图让我们相信，我们内在有某种力量可以决定所有这些结果或我们想了解的关于自身的所有真相。

It's trying to basically convince us that there is something within us that can determine all of these outcomes or all of these truths that we wanna know about ourselves.

我们想知道自己是有价值的。

We wanna know that we have value.

我们想知道自己是值得被爱的。

We wanna know that we're loved.

我们想知道自己会没事的。

We wanna know that we're gonna be okay.

在我们试图获得这些确定性时，完美主义就成了我们自以为实现它的方式。

And in our attempts to gain certainty on those things, perfectionism becomes the way through which we think we enact it and through which we gain it.

这一切，都只是一种应对机制。

All of this, it's just a coping mechanism.

从外表看，它光鲜亮丽。

One that looks bloody fantastic from the outside.

我敢肯定，如果你在听这期节目，你在学校成绩优异。

I'm sure, if you're listening to this episode, you got great grades in school.

我相信你从小就有工作经历。

I'm sure you had a job growing up.

你有爱好、课外活动，你让父母骄傲，你标准很高，上了好学校，总有些副业在忙。

You had hobbies, extracurriculars, you made your parents proud, you had high standards, you went to a good school, you always had some kind of side hustle.

但现在我能问你个问题吗？

But can I ask you a question right now?

你真的快乐吗？

Are you actually happy?

发自内心地说。

Genuinely.

如果我把这些都拿走，你还知道自己真正喜欢做什么吗？

If I took all of that away, would you know what you actually like doing?

你还知道自己究竟是谁吗？

Would you know who you actually are?

如果没有外界的认可，你现在做的事还会坚持一半吗？

Would you be doing half of what you're doing now without external approval?

有多少事你做着并非因为享受，而是觉得必须去做？

How many things do you do not because you have ever enjoyed them but because you think that you have to?

这就是完美主义的悖论。

That is the paradox of perfectionism.

它往往始于掌控感、被爱与被重视的渴望，最终却用金手铐反将你禁锢。

Often it begins as a way to feel in control, to feel loved and worthy, and it ends up controlling you with golden handcuffs.

它是你最好的朋友，因为你清楚它能带来结果。

It is your best friend because you know it gives it gives you outcomes.

它能给你产出。

It gives you output.

你知道可以依赖它。

You know you can rely on it.

它能帮你把事情搞定。

It gets stuff done.

但它同时也是你最糟糕的敌人。

It's also your worst enemy.

那么，当完美主义已成为我们的一部分如此之久，几乎像是第二层皮肤时，我们该如何松解它的束缚？

So how do we loosen the grip of perfectionism when it has been a part of us for so long that it almost feels like a second skin?

首先，我希望你想象一下你真正想要的生活。

Firstly, I want you to imagine the life you really really want.

生动地想象它。

Vividly imagine it.

你的房子，你的日常生活，你穿什么，你的朋友是谁，晚餐吃什么，你的房子是什么样子。

Your house, your day to day life, what you're wearing, who your friends are, what you have for dinner, what your house looks like.

现在认真问问自己，做一个完美主义者能让我成为那个人吗？

Now seriously ask yourself, will being a perfectionist allow me to be that person?

即便能做到，完美主义能让我真正享受梦想中的生活吗？

And even if it does, will it allow me to enjoy even my dream life?

是否存在完美主义能让我真正感到满足的未来？

Is there a future where my perfectionism will actually let me be satisfied?

我发现当下应对完美主义的最佳方式，是运用未来视角（心理学称为'前瞻思维'），观察完美主义将如何持续伤害未来的自己。

The best way I found to start tackling my perfectionism in the now is to use future mindedness or what psychology calls 'perspection' to kind of observe how perfectionism will continue to hurt me into the future.

我真正发现，唯一能阻止自己陷入完美主义的方法，就是聚焦于那些只会不断放大的负面影响。

I really find that the only way I can stop myself from doing it is to focus on all the downsides that I know will only increase.

完美主义就像病毒细胞数一样。

Like perfectionism is like the cell count of a virus.

如果不去挑战它，它就会持续渗透我生活中的一切。

Like it will continue to infiltrate everything in my life if I don't challenge it.

如果我不去挑战'我必须做到最好'这个念头。

If I don't challenge this thought that I need to be the best.

这个必须完美。

This needs to be perfect.