本集简介
双语字幕
仅展示文本字幕，不包含中文音频；想边听边看，请使用 Bayt 播客 App。
这是iHeart播客。
This is an iHeart podcast.
保证真人制作。
Guaranteed Human.
嗨，凯尔。
Hi, Kyle.
你能帮我起草一份简单的商业计划书吗？就一页，用Google文档格式，然后把链接发给我？
Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan, just one page, as a Google Doc, and send me the link?
谢谢。
Thanks.
嘿。
Hey.
我刚为你写好了那页纸的商业计划书。
Just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you.
这是链接。
Here's the link.
但根本没有链接。
But there was no link.
根本没有商业计划。
There was no business plan.
我还没有编程让凯尔具备这个能力。
I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet.
我是埃文·拉蒂夫，带来一个关于人工智能时代创业的故事。
I'm Evan Ratliff here with a story of entrepreneurship in the AI age.
请听我尝试用虚构的人打造一家真实初创公司的过程。
Listen as I attempt to build a real startup run by fake people.
请在 iHeartRadio 应用程序或您收听播客的任何平台收听我的播客《壳牌游戏》第二季。
Check out the second season of my podcast, Shell Game, on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
父亲传给儿子的那些循环模式是什么？
What are the cycles fathers passed down that sons are left to heal?
如果做男人不是关于强撑一切，而是学会放手呢？
What if being a man wasn't about holding it all together, but learning how to let go?
这是一个男性坦诚面对真相、寻找治愈与转变力量的空间。
This is a space where men speak truth and find the power to heal and transform.
我是迈克·德拉罗查。
I'm Mike Della Rocha.
欢迎来到神圣课程。
Welcome to Sacred Lessons.
您可以在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或您收听播客的任何平台收听《神圣课程》。
Listen to sacred lessons on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
医生。
Doctor.
这里是幸福实验室的劳里·桑托斯。
Laurie Santos from the Happiness Lab here.
现在是……季节，今年我的播客《幸福实验室》与非营利组织 GiveDirectly 合作，该组织通过“Pods 抗贫行动”向极端贫困人口提供他们所需的现金。
It's the season of and this year, my podcast, the Happiness Lab, is partnering with GiveDirectly, a nonprofit that provides people in extreme poverty with the cash they need as part of the Pods Fight Poverty campaign.
我们今年的目标是筹集 100 万美元，这将帮助 700 多个家庭摆脱极端贫困。
Our goal this year is to raise $1,000,000, which will bring over 700 families out of extreme poverty.
您的捐赠将直接以现金形式交给这些有需要的家庭，由他们自行决定如何使用，无论是用于上学交通、购买牲畜，还是创业。
Your donation will put cash directly in the hands of these families in need, and they'll get to decide how to use it, whether that's school transportation, purchasing livestock, or starting a business.
此外，如果您是首次捐赠者，您的善款将由捐赠倍增计划匹配，这意味着能为有需要的人提供更多的资金。
Plus, if you're a first time donor, your gift will be matched by giving multiplier, which means more money for those in need.
请访问 givedirectly.org/happinesslab 了解更多信息并进行捐赠。
Visit givedirectly.org/happinesslab to learn more and to donate.
网址是 givedirectly.org/happinesslab。
That's givedirectly.org/happinesslab.
这档节目超前于它的时代。
The show was ahead of its time.
以电视此前从未展现过的方式呈现一个黑人家庭。
To represent a black family in ways that television hadn't shown before.
没错。
Exactly.
她是特尔玛·霍普金斯，也被称为雷切尔阿姨。
It's Thelma Hopkins, also known as aunt Rachel.
我是凯莉·威廉姆斯或劳拉·温斯洛。
And I'm Kelly Williams or Laura Winslow.
在我们的播客中，欢迎来到特尔玛和凯莉的家族。
On our podcast, welcome to the family with Thelma and Kelly.
我们正在重看《家庭事务》的每一集。
We're rewatching every episode of family matters.
我们会分享关于节目制作的幕后故事。
We'll share behind the scenes stories about making the show.
没错。
Yeah.
我们还会邀请一些特别嘉宾来爆料。
We'll even bring in some special guests to spill some tea.
请在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或您收听播客的任何平台收听《欢迎来到特尔玛和凯莉的家族》。
Listen to welcome to the family with Thelma and Kelly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
你好。
Hi.
我是拉迪·德夫卢卡，我是《一次很好的哭泣》播客的主持人。
I'm Radhi Devlukha, and I am the host of A Really Good Cry podcast.
本周，我邀请到了安娜·伦克尔，她也被称为“糟糕童年仙子”，是一位创作者、教师和引导者，帮助人们疗愈童年时期因不安全或混乱环境留下的持久情感创伤。
This week, I am joined by Anna Runkle, also known as the crappy childhood fairy, a creator, teacher, and guide helping people heal from the lasting emotional wounds of unsafe or chaotic childhoods.
但谈论创伤并不总是对人有益。
But talking about trauma isn't always great for people.
这并不总是最好的做法。
It's not always the best thing.
大约三分之一在童年时期经历过创伤的人，当他们谈论这些经历时，反而会感觉更糟，情绪会严重失衡。
About a third of people who are traumatized as kids feel worse when they talk about it, get very dysregulated.
收听《一次很好的哭泣》，请在
Listen to A Really Good Cry on
iHeartRadio 应用、Apple Podcasts 或您收听播客的任何平台。
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
大家好。
Hello, everybody.
我是杰玛·斯派克，欢迎回到《二十多岁的心理学》播客，在这里我们将探讨二十多岁人生中最重要的变化、时刻与转折，以及它们对我们心理的影响。
I'm Gemma Spike, and welcome back to the psychology of your twenties, the podcast where we talk through the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and what they mean for our psychology.
大家好。
Hello, everybody.
欢迎回到本节目。
Welcome back to the show.
欢迎回到本播客。
Welcome back to the podcast.
很高兴你再次回来收听这一期节目。
It is so great to have you here back for another episode.
今天，我们再次迎来一位我最喜爱的嘉宾。
Today we welcome back one of our favorite, my favorite guests.
她已经多次做客我们的节目。
She has been on the show so many times.
她是依恋风格、人际关系以及如何找到健康爱情方面的全球专家。
She is one of the global experts on attachment style, relationships, how to find healthy love.
她写了两本书，指导过数千人，并在这一领域进行了比其他任何人都更多的研究。
She's written two books, she has coached thousands of people and has done more research on this than probably any other person.
前几天，我收到了她的一封邮件，谈到了她正在研究的一个新理论。
The other day I got an email from her about this new theory that she's been working on.
这个理论被称为关系的六个阶段，我立刻意识到我们必须讨论它，因为它极其准确。
It's called the six stages of a relationship and I just knew we had to talk about it because it is incredibly accurate.
首先，它非常准确地描绘了我们所经历的几乎每一段关系。
First of all, it is so accurate how it represents almost every relationship we find ourselves in.
我也认为，尤其是在二十多岁时了解这六个阶段所代表的含义，能帮助我们对爱情更加现实，理解约会中的起起落落，以及长期相处中的情感起伏。
And I also think that learning about these six stages especially in our 20s what they represent, what they mean could help us all be more realistic about love and also understand the highs and lows of dating and the highs and lows of devotion and being with somebody long term.
闲话少说，她来了。
Without further ado, here she is.
泰乌斯·吉布森，欢迎再次来到《你的二十多岁心理学》。
Tyus Gibson, welcome to the psychology of your twenties again.
谢谢你的邀请。
Thank you for having me.
你是我最喜欢聊天、一起做播客、真正地闲聊的人之一。
I you're one of my favorite people to to chat with and join podcast with and just honestly catch up with.
所以能来这里真的非常开心。
So so it's really nice to be here.
不。
No.
每次你来节目都特别棒，你已经来过好几次了。
It's it's so lovely every time you come on the show, and you've been on a couple of times.
你简直就是我的依恋风格专家。
You're like my go to attachment style expert.
我非常喜欢你深入的知识。
I love your in-depth knowledge.
我非常喜欢你谈论这些话题的方式。
I love how you talk about these topics.
我已经提前泄露了我的下一个问题，那就是给听众们简单介绍一下你自己，以及你从事什么样的工作。
I've kind of spoiled my next question, which is tell the listeners a little bit about yourself and what kind of work you do.
是的，正如你所说，我确实专注于关系领域。
Yeah, so I to your point, I definitely work in the relationship space.
我的职业是咨询师和教练。
By trade, I am a counselor and coach.
我已经在这个领域工作了很长时间，超过十年了。
And I've been in this space for quite a while now, more than a decade.
我主要专注于依恋风格方面。
And I tend to focus a lot in the attachment style space.
这可能源于我自己成长过程中拥有恐惧-回避型依恋风格，并深入努力理解如何疗愈。
And I think that comes from growing up with a fearful avoidant attachment style myself and really pouring into trying to understand how to heal.
我不仅强调理解和智力分析，更注重实际的重新塑造。
And I put a huge emphasis and focus not just on like understanding things and intellectualizing things, but actually rewiring.
因为当我们能深入潜意识，重新塑造模式并利用神经可塑性时，才能真正看到疗愈、改变与成长。
Because the more we can really dig into the subconscious and rewire our patterns and leverage neuroplasticity, that's where you get to see the real healing and change and growth.
这在我自己的成长历程中帮助极大，我也总是非常兴奋地与他人谈论和分享这一点。
And so that was something that helped me on my journey so much and something that I'm always really excited to talk about and share with other people.
你谈论它的方式真的太棒了。
And you do like, just the way you talk about it is incredible.
如果你还没听过我们的其他节目，我想我们做过一期关于焦虑型依恋和回避型依恋的。
And if you haven't listened to our other episodes, I think we did one on anxious attachment and avoidant.
非常推荐你去听听那些节目。
Very much recommend going and listening to those.
说实话，这是我们做过的最喜爱的两期节目之一。
Two of my favorite episodes that we've ever done, to be honest.
但今天，我们要谈谈你提出的这个理论，这个你告诉我的新概念。
But today, we're gonna talk about this, I guess, theory that you've come up with, this new concept that you told me about.
我当时就想，为什么从来没有人分享过、讨论过或者提出过这个观点呢？
And I was like, how come no one has ever shared this or talked about this or come up with this before?
这是关系的六个阶段理论。
It is the six stage theory of relationships.
你知道，我特别喜欢理论。
You know I I adore a theory.
我非常喜欢任何对人类现象的简洁解释。
I adore like any kind of succinct explanation of like human phenomena.
在我们逐一讨论每个阶段之前，你能先给我简单解释一下这个理论吗？
Can you just like quickly explain this one for me before we go into each stage individually?
可以。
Yes.
这个理论本质上是说，每段关系都有六个阶段。
So the theory is essentially that every relationship has six stages.
通过与数以万计的客户合作，我发现每段关系本质上都有一个生命周期。
And I saw this through working with tens of thousands of clients that there's essentially a life cycle of every relationship.
它始于一个较高的层次。
And it starts at a high level.
我们当然会详细讨论这些阶段，但总体来说，第一阶段是约会阶段。
We'll talk about them in detail for sure, but at a high level, the first stage is the dating stage.
这个阶段的目的是真正地了解对方，看看他们是否适合你，反之亦然。
And the intention of this stage is to really vet and get to know somebody and like, see if they're a good fit for you and vice versa.
当我们做出承诺后，就进入了蜜月期。
And then when we make a commitment, we move into the honeymoon stage.
在这个阶段，我们戴着玫瑰色眼镜，充满兴奋，一切都感觉美好、轻松、顺畅，但我们仍然带着不少条件来展现自己。
And this is the stage where essentially we have our rose colored glasses on and we're all excited and everything feels great and it's easy and it's flowing, but we're usually showing ourselves still with a good bit of conditions.
我们表现得最好。
We're on our best behavior.
我们可能比平时更倾向于取悦对方。
We're still people pleasing maybe a little bit more than we otherwise would.
我们还不太自在。
We're not as comfortable.
当我们放下伪装，变得放松时，这就把我们带入了权力斗争阶段。
And then we let down the mask and get comfortable, and that actually is what draws us into the power struggle stage.
你会发现，权力斗争阶段是统计上大多数人分手的阶段，但疯狂的是，如果从一段完整关系的长远角度来看——比如你打算和某人结婚并相伴数十年——恋爱、蜜月和权力斗争只是整个关系中极小的一部分。
And the power struggle stage you'll see is where statistically most people break up, but the crazy part is that if you don't realize that in the long grand scheme of an entire relationship, like if you're gonna marry somebody and be with them for decades perhaps, the dating honeymoon power struggle are such a small snapshot of a whole relationship.
如果我们从未让关系超越权力斗争阶段，人们就会以为整个关系就是这种高亢的迷恋，接着是低谷的争吵和更多争执，最终导致分手。
And if we don't ever have a relationship that makes beyond the power struggle, then people think that the whole relationship is like this high of infatuation, this low of fighting and more arguing, and it breaks up.
而现实是，权力斗争阶段实际上提供了一个独特而有力的机会，让我们更深入地了解彼此，学会处理冲突，学会沟通解决分歧，相互学习并建立默契。
And the reality is that the power struggle stage is actually something that presents this really unique and powerful opportunity to know each other more deeply, to work through conflict, to learn to hash things out, to learn each other and to get into a rhythm.
如果我们能做到这一点，我们就会进入未来的阶段——默契阶段、奉献阶段，最终进入永恒阶段，在这个阶段，我们能在关系中获得真正而深刻的持久满足感。
And if we do that, we then progress into future stages, which become the rhythm stage, the devotion stage, and eventually the everlasting stage, which is where we have this true and deep sense of lasting contentment in the relationship.
当然，我们会详细探讨所有这些阶段，但这一理论的核心在于：每一段关系，毫无例外，都会经历这个生命周期，并且我们需要通过特定的成年礼才能从一个阶段过渡到下一个阶段。
And so we'll boil into all of the stages, of course, in a lot of detail, but the theory essentially is rooted in the fact that every relationship, point blank period goes through this life cycle and there are specific rites of passage that we need to move from one stage to the next.
因此，为了持续进步，我们必须学会并精通与对方相处的某些技能。
So in order to continuously progress, there's actually things we have to learn and get good at with each other.
如果我们没有学会这些成年礼，就会被困在某个阶段。
And if we don't learn those rites of passage, we'll actually get stuck in a certain stage.
我们在某个阶段停留的时间越长，关系越有可能走向终结。
And the longer we're stuck in a stage without progressing, the more likely the relationship is to end.
因此，我发现真正有意义的是，当人们在关系中挣扎，却从未拥有过一段持久的关系时。
So what I find to be really meaningful is if people are struggling in relationships and they never really, you know, have a lasting relationship.
他们总是维持一两年就分手，像这样的情况，而他们真正寻求的是一种更长久、更稳固的关系。
It's always a year or two years they break up, know, things like this, and they're looking for something longer lasting and more prominent for them.
或者，如果现在有听众正处于某个阶段，感觉被困住了，一切都很坎坷，关系毫无进展。
Or if somebody is in a stage now listening perhaps and they're like, I feel like I'm stuck in one of these stages and everything's rocky and we're not progressing.
很多时候，问题不在于你找错了伴侣，而在于你使用的工具和行为模式有问题，这些才是真正让你停滞不前、无法推进的原因。
It's much less of the time that you have the wrong partner and much more of the time that you instead have the wrong tools and the wrong behaviors and relationships that are actually keeping you stuck and not allowing you to progress.
根据我亲眼所见，我强烈认为，人们常常会想：‘也许我和这个人并不兼容。’
And I would make a really strong argument having seen this firsthand that so often people are like, oh, maybe I'm not compatible with somebody.
天啊，如果这段关系最终失败了怎么办？
Oh my gosh, what if it doesn't work out?
他们感到被困住了。
And they feel stuck.
但一旦他们掌握了开启下一阶段所需的工具，事情就会变得轻松许多，自然而然地向前推进。
And actually once they get the certain tools that they need to unlock the next stage, things move move forward much more effortlessly.
所以，这基本上就是这个理论的精髓。
So that's essentially the the theory in a nutshell.
我非常喜欢这一点。
Which I love.
在按下录制键之前，我们就在聊天，我当时想，要变得脆弱、完全坦诚，我发现自己现在的感情关系——好吧，不是，我的当前关系，
And we were talking before I pressed record, I was like, to get to be vulnerable and to be completely honest, like, I'm seeing my current relationship well, my current, just my relationship reach a well, no.
我的当前关系，竟然达到了我以前从未在其他伴侣身上经历过的全新阶段。
My current relationship, like, reach a new stage that I never have with other partners.
我们确实已经度过了权力斗争阶段，现在正在向前迈进，必须更深入地了解彼此。
And, like, we've just definitely passed through this, like, power struggle phase where, you know, we're moving and, like, we really have to, like, know each other deeper.
我以前从未经历过这个阶段，我觉得我们快要走完它了。
And I've never passed through this stage before, and I feel like we're getting to the end of it.
这个理论让我看清了我过去所有的关系，每一个都符合这个模式。
And this theory has, like, opened my eyes to all previous relationships that I have ever had, And every single one of them follows this.
显然，它们在不同的阶段分手，但我从未在节奏阶段之后与任何人分手，这很有趣。
And obviously, like, they break up at different points, but never beyond the rhythm stage have I broken up with someone, which is interesting.
这几乎就是人们经历的实际情况。
And that is almost exactly how it goes for people.
所以，当我发现人们的情况时，一般来说，我没有确切的数据支持这一点。
So once people I find as a general ballpark, I don't have like really hard data on this.
我只是基于多年来成千上万次对话和客户的经验得出的结论。
I'm just pulling from like tens of thousands of conversations and clients over the years.
但总的来说，如果你能挺过节奏阶段，这段关系长久持续下来的概率大约有80%。
But but I would say generally you're looking at like 80% chance of the relationship really lasting for the long long haul if you make it to the rhythm stage.
因为在那个阶段，你学会了如何应对——当我们深入探讨权力斗争、成长仪式以及这些内容时，你会看到并明白，如果我们没能在这个阶段掌握重要的功课，关系就会崩溃。
So at that point it's because you've learned how to navigate and and well as we dive into the power struggle and the rites of passage and all these things you'll you'll see and and and learn that if we can't get the important lessons right in that stage, that's what makes everything fall apart.
但如果我们在这个阶段做对了，这些经验恰恰能为我们未来的一切做好准备，让我们能够茁壮成长、保持连接，并学会在将来遭遇困难时如何度过难关，或者真正建立深厚的根基，让关系长久繁荣。
But if we get them right in that stage, it's what exactly prepares us for everything to come so that we can thrive and stay connected and know how to weather hard times in the future if we ever go through them or be able to really build roots that are allowing a relationship to thrive and last for the long haul.
我几乎可以把关系本身想象成一个视觉隐喻。
And I almost think of like a relationship itself if there was a visual analogy.
每段关系都像一棵小树，一棵幼苗，在约会阶段，我们会说：‘看，一棵小树在生长，真让人兴奋。’
Every relationship's like a little tree, like a little sapling, and in the dating stage we're like, oh, there's a little tree growing and we're so excited.
然后你给它浇水，让它晒太阳，它的根系逐渐加深。
And then you you water it and it gets sunlight and it builds slightly deeper roots.
我们会说：‘它在成长。’
We're like, it's growing.
而权力斗争阶段就像这棵树经历的第一场风暴。
And then the power struggle stage is like the first storm that happens for the tree.
就像一场雷暴一样。
And it's like, you know, there's a thunderstorm.
如果我们不知道如何度过这个阶段，树可能会被连根拔起。
And and if we don't know how to navigate that stage, the tree can get ripped out of the ground.
但你知道，如果风特别大的话，对吧？
But, you know, if it's really windy perhaps, right?
但如果我们能够持续地培养更深的根系，随着时间的推移滋养这棵树，最终根系会变得如此深厚，即使遭遇飓风，这棵树也不会被连根拔起。
But if we are if we're able to really build deeper and deeper roots and nourish that tree across time, eventually the roots become so deep that even if there's like a hurricane, that tree is not going to come out of the ground.
而这正是这一切的核心所在。
And so that's really what this is all about.
我们该如何用正确的工具建立这些深厚的根系呢？
It's like how do we build those deep roots with the right tools?
正是这一点让人们在进入永恒阶段时，不仅拥有最持久的关系，而且实际上也报告了他们在关系中获得了最大的满足感。
And that's what allows people to, when they make it to the everlasting stage, people report in the everlasting stage not just having the longest lasting relationships, of course, but they actually report being the most fulfilled in their relationships.
有时令人难过且难以直视的是，我认为每个人都见过这种情况：你生活中的一对伴侣，或者你自己就是这样的伴侣，你能看出两个人真正幸福地在一起。
And what's sad and hard to see sometimes is that I think everybody's seen this where, you know, a couple in your life, or maybe you're that couple now and where you can tell people are truly happy together.
他们在一起很久了，但真正感到满足。
They've been together a long time but they're truly fulfilled.
而你也会看到另一些伴侣，他们可能已经结婚三十年了，但你能明显感觉到他们并不快乐，只是勉强维持着，一直在争吵，过得非常痛苦。
And then there's other couples you see where they're together and maybe they're married for thirty years but you can tell they're just not happy like they're just kind of sticking it out and they're just you know, they're still fighting all the time, and they're miserable.
这就像是，嗯，这并不是关系中的成功。
And it's like, well, that's not success in a relationship.
实际上，他们从未走出过权力斗争阶段。
And what that is is it's actually they never left the power struggle stage.
嗯。
Mhmm.
人们可能会说约会和蜜月期时长不同，但如果人们不懂得如何度过这一阶段，他们可能会长期陷在权力斗争中。
So people can say the dating and honeymoon have different time spans, but the power struggle people can actually stay in for the long haul if they don't actually learn how to move through it.
好的。
Okay.
我们需要深入这些阶段，因为我感觉我有太多问题了，但我想先聊聊这些阶段，之后再逐一探讨。
We need to get into these stages because I feel like I'm gonna I have so many questions, but I'm like, let's talk about the stages first because then I can go from there.
好的。
Okay.
但首先从第一步开始，那就是你得开始和某人交谈。
But beginning with with step one, which is you gotta start talking to someone.
你得开始约会某个人。
You've gotta start dating somebody.
在这个阶段，有哪些关键点需要注意，可能预示着未来的兼容性？
What are the key things to, like, look out for during this period that may predict, like, future compatibility?
是的。
Yeah.
好问题。
Great question.
在约会阶段，这个阶段通常持续零到六个月，人们会根据自己的依恋风格试图加快进程。
So in the dating stage, the dating stage generally lasts about zero to six months, and it will be people will try to speed it along a little bit based on their attachment style.
比如那些焦虑型依恋的人，他们会希望更快地从约会阶段进入蜜月期，因为进入蜜月期的标志是：我们是否决定共同建立一段关系？
Like people who are a little more anxious, they'll want to go from dating into honeymoon quicker because the rite of passage into honeymoon is more about, did we decide to commit to a relationship together?
我们只是在互相约会吗？
Are we just still seeing each other?
而那些偏向回避型依恋的人，则倾向于希望永远停留在约会阶段，他们会拖得很久。
People who are a little more avoidant leaning, they'll tend to be like, let's stay in the dating stage forever, they'll really drag it out.
他们通常会接近六个月的节点。
And usually they're closer to the six month mark.
但在约会阶段，你需要提前准备的最重要事情是第一点：你必须清楚自己在寻找什么。
But the really important things to go in prepared for in the dating stage are number one, you have to know what you're looking for.
而且我真的认为，人们严重低估了这一阶段的重要性，因为如果你没有好好经历约会阶段，就相当于试图在错误的土壤里播种或种植庄稼。
And, and truly, I think people really underestimate this stage and how important it is because if you don't do the dating stage properly, it's like you try to plant a seed or or or a crop that you're trying to grow in the wrong soil.
对吧？
Right?
就像如果你的土壤不适合作物生长，你肯定会遇到很大困难。
It's like you you can if you don't have soil conducive to growing the crop, you're gonna have a hard time.
在我的实践中，我经常看到很多人在约会时，对约会对象的标准非常低。
And a lot of people that I would see in my practice is they would go in, they would date somebody, they would have very low standards for dating.
他们只是想找个有吸引力、能和自己玩得开心的人，然后在开始约会后，就陷入试图赢得对方好感的阶段。
It would be like, I just wanna find somebody I'm attracted to and I have fun And then they get into this space of trying to win the person over when they start dating them.
他们只想让对方喜欢自己、愿意和自己承诺关系。
They're like, Oh, I just want to get them to like me and want to commit to me.
他们把注意力都放在了这一点上，而不是去筛选对方。
And they put their focus and attention there instead of on vetting.
而约会阶段的全部目的就是筛选，我们稍后会谈到这一点。
And the entire purpose of the dating stage is about vetting, which we'll come to in a second.
所以他们不去筛选，反而处于讨好对方、试图赢得对方好感的状态，等你走过蜜月期进入权力斗争期时，就已经没有成功的基础了。
So they don't vet and then because they're in this like people pleasing stage trying to win the person over, by the time you then move through the honeymoon stage and get into the power struggle stage, you're not set up for success.
你将会发现，你们之间所有兼容或不兼容的地方都变得更加明显。
And you're gonna see all of your compat incompatibilities are more glaring.
届时会面临很多挑战。
There's gonna be a lot of challenges.
所以，针对你的问题，你首先要弄清楚的是：我的标准是什么？
And so the first thing you wanna start with to your question is like, wanna know what are my standards?
我在一段关系中的需求是什么？
What are my needs in a relationship?
我的不可妥协的底线是什么？
And what are my non negotiables?
我总是让人们从这些问题开始，然后真正明确这些方面。
And I always get people to start there, and then really get clear about those things.
然后是第二个问题，你可能会以为人们从一开始就该知道去寻找这些，但他们并没有。
And then the second question, and you would think people know to just look for this right out of the gates, but they don't.
第二个问题是：我应该去哪里寻找这样的人？
The second question is, where should I be looking for this person?
因为你会惊讶于有多少人会说：‘我真的很想找到一个情绪稳定、正在自我成长的人。’
Because you'd be shocked at the amount of people who will say things like, oh, I I really wanna find somebody who's emotionally available and who's working on themselves.
而我会问：‘那你平时都在哪里找呢？’
And I'm like, oh, where have you been looking?
人们会说：哦，我就是每周五、六去酒吧，希望能遇到谁。
And people will be like, oh, well, guess I just kinda go out to the bar every Friday and Saturday and and hope to meet somebody.
并不是说酒吧里就没有情绪稳定的人。
And it's not that there's no emotionally available people at a bar.
当然，是会有的。
Of course, there will be.
只是你大大降低了遇到合适人选的机会。
It's just that you're minimizing your chances of finding the right person.
如果你真的在寻找一段健康的关系，并且想掌握恋爱阶段，我们就应该去寻找情绪稳定、正在自我成长的人，比如每周去参加一次我所在地区的个人成长聚会。
Like, if you're really looking for a healthy relationship and you're trying to master the dating stage of your life, we want to be looking okay emotionally available people people working on themselves, I'm going go to like a personal growth meetup in my area once a week
或者通过我尊重的人来介绍。
or something to get set up by people I respect.
没错。
Exactly.
所以在这一阶段，我们需要有明确的意图。
So we want intent in that stage.
这让我们能够珍惜自己的时间，不浪费时间，真正尊重自己的界限和我们在这一阶段所追求的标准。
And what that allows us to do is be mindful of our own time, not waste our own time, and actually honor our boundaries and honor what it is that we're looking for, our standards essentially in this stage.
一旦我们遇到了感兴趣的人，并且在正确的场合寻找，同时明确自己有意识追求的目标，接下来关键的一点就是，你需要主动提出那些能真正探明我们是否兼容的问题。
And once we meet somebody that we're interested in, and we're looking in the right place, and we have the intentions of what we're consciously looking for, the next big piece underneath that is you want to go in and be like, okay, I need to start asking the questions that are going to get to the bottom of whether or not we're compatible.
如果我们正确地进行约会阶段，核心就是学习彼此的兼容性。
So if we're doing the dating stage right, it's about learning compatibility.
关键在于有意识地判断是否存在真正的契合。
It's about being intentional to see if there's actually a fit.
所以我常对人们说：明确你的标准和需求，然后在第一次约会时去感受是否有化学反应，是否玩得开心，是否有连接感。
And so what I often say to people is like, out your standards, out your needs, and then go on your first date to see if there's chemistry, see if you have a fun time, if there's a connection.
之后，你每次约会都应有意地提出一个有挑战性的问题。
And after that, you want to intend to ask one hard question per date.
举个例子，我知道我自己，我和丈夫已经结婚十年了，但如果我进入一个新的约会情境，我首先会想知道：对方是否能够处理冲突。
So, know, I know for me as an example, like obviously I've been married with my husband for ten years, but if I were going into a dating scenario, I would be like, you know, for me, one of the first things would be, I want to know that somebody can work through conflict.
我不喜欢把问题掩盖起来。
I don't want to, I don't like to sweep things under the rug.
我喜欢把事情说清楚，这对我来说非常重要。
I like to hash things out, that's extremely important to me.
所以，我可能会在第一次约会时玩得开心。
So, you know, I might go on the first date, have fun.
在第二次约会时，我可能会问：你是如何处理冲突的？
And on a second date, I might say, how do you handle conflict?
我非常好奇。
I'm so curious.
比如，如果你生活中出现冲突，你通常会怎么做？
Like, what do you tend to do if there's conflict in your life?
我可能会问关于朋友或家人的情况。
I might ask about like with friends or family.
如果我听到有人说：哦，我不喜欢冲突。
If I hear somebody say, oh, just don't like conflict.
我从不经历冲突。
I never have it.
我只是会忽略一些事情，然后把它搁置一旁。
I just kind of ignore stuff and and, you know, park it away.
我不喜欢进行这样的对话。
I don't like to to have conversations like that.
我希望能轻松一点。
I'm looking for things to be easy.
我可能会问：如果这件事对你很重要，你愿意去面对它吗？
I might be like, well, would you be willing to address things if it was important to you?
如果他们回答说‘啊，这太让人不舒服了’，我大概就不会再约下次了，因为这对我来说是不可妥协的。
And if they were like, ah, an all touchy, I probably wouldn't go on another date because that's a non negotiable for me.
所以你能借此深入探讨这些难题，同时也能引发有趣而有意义的对话。
And so you get to get to the bottom of these hard questions and it also draws out interesting and meaningful conversation.
约会阶段的全部意义就在于了解对方，看看他们是否真的能融入你的生活。
And that's the whole point of the dating stage is to get to know the person and see if they're actually gonna fit into your life.
另一方面，很多人也容易忽略的是，在约会阶段，我们也有责任展现真实的自己，必须允许自己被对方审视。
And on the flip side, where a lot of people also tend to miss the mark is that we also owe our own authenticity in the dating stage, and we have to let ourselves get vetted too.
所以当我们进行这些对话时，我们也必须真诚地向他人展示真实的自己，因为我们也需要让他们判断我们是否适合他们。
So when we have these conversations, we also have to share ourselves truthfully and honestly with other people because we have to let them see if they're, you know, we're a good fit for them as well.
我认为太多人为了取悦他人而说一些他们认为‘正确’的话，而不是说发自内心的话。
And I think too many people, they kind of people please and try to say all the right things instead of the authentic things.
你会发现，尽管短期内这样做可能显得更轻松、更令人满足，但从长远来看，这实际上会严重降低这段关系成功的可能性。
And what you'll find is even though that might seem easier and more gratifying in the short term, it's actually much worse for the long term relationship's chance of success.
因为如果我们过于取悦他人，在约会阶段假装对一些我们并不认同的事情无所谓的，忽视了自己真正的界限和真正重要的需求，那么等到进入权力斗争阶段——那时真相自然会浮出水面——你就更难熬过这一关了。
Because if we're people pleasing too much in the dating stage and pretending too much that we're okay with things we aren't and we don't have boundaries that we actually do or we don't have needs that are actually really meaningful to us, by the time you get to the power struggle stage where naturally things start to come out of the woodworks and we show our truth there, you are so much less likely to make it through.
要成功度过后期阶段，你需要为自己铺好成功之路：认真筛选对方，以真实的自我出现，真诚地分享自己，明确自己的标准和不可妥协的原则，并在正确的地方寻找伴侣。
To successfully the later stages, you set yourself up for success, you vet properly, you show up with your authentic self, you share yourself authentically, we know our standards and non negotiables going into the relationship, we try to look in the right places.
这些才是关键的成年礼。
And those are, like, the big key rites of passage.
你会保护自己不被伤害。
And you stop yourself from being hurt.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
在这个阶段，你可能还没有和某人建立深厚的情感联系，甚至根本没有联系。
Like, at this stage, you you probably aren't deeply emotionally bonded to someone and or bonded at all.
你知道，你可能会和某人进入权力斗争阶段，非常喜欢甚至爱上对方，因为你和他们共度了时光，而他们依然和你刚认识时一样。
Like, you know, you could get to the the the, like, the power struggle phase with somebody and really like them and love them because, like, you spent time with them, whereas they're still the same person that they were when you first met them.
如果你能早早意识到，我们根本不可能兼容。
Like, if you were able to realize, like, we are never gonna be compatible early on.
这样你就避免了太多痛苦。
Like, you save yourself so much pain.
我还想问你一个问题，我知道现在很多人都会问自己。
I also wanna ask you about this, which is something that I know so many people are gonna be asking themselves right now.
在这个阶段，我该如何避免被对某人的理想化形象所迷惑？
How do I not just get carried away with the idealized version of someone during this stage?
那个我自以为可能实现的版本，尤其是在涉及承诺的时候。
The version that I convinced myself could happen, especially I think around commitment.
你知道，当某人说，哦，是的。
You know, someone says, like, oh, yeah.
我只是真的想慢慢来。
I just really wanna take things slow.
我并不是真的在寻找认真的关系，但让我们看看事情会如何发展。
I'm not really looking for anything serious, but let's see where things go.
在你心里，你会听到：我只需要赢得他们的心，或者他们只需要时间，或者你开始听到你希望听到的话。
And in your mind, you hear, oh, I just need to win them over, or they just need time, or you start hearing things that you wanna hear.
在这个阶段，你该如何应对自己内心可能存在的这种倾向？
How do you deal with that maybe tendency within you during this stage?
我喜欢这个问题。
I love that question.
这是一个绝佳的问题。
That's a phenomenal question.
当然，你总是会提出很棒的问题。
Of course, you always ask great questions.
我想说的第一件事是，我们要设定一个目标和意图，不要去追求别人的潜力。
The first thing I would say is that we wanna set a goal and an intention to not date people's potential.
当我过去经营我的咨询业务时，我会遇到一些客户，他们天生就容易这样做。
And when I would have clients, you know, back in the day when I was running my practice, I would get them people who I would say are, you know, predisposed to doing that.
你知道，那些比较焦虑的人，总是看到别人最好的一面，这确实是个迷人的品质，但他们更有可能这么做。我实际上会让他们写恋爱日记。
You know, the of people who are a little more anxious, they see the best in people, it's such a charming quality, but they're much more likely to do that, I would actually get them to keep a dating journal.
我会让他们做一件在家进行的很棒的练习：每次约会或与某人相处后，我会让他们问自己，这个人到底让我感觉如何？
And I would get them to and I would actually tell people is a great exercise to do at home is I would get them to after a date after spending time with somebody, I would ask them how I would get them to say, how is this person actually making me feel?
因为有时候，当我们陷入幻想，而对方没有回音，我们感到焦虑，或者他们不擅长沟通，或者约会进展不顺时。
Okay, because sometimes that question when we're so into the fantasy, and then we don't hear from them, and we're anxious, or they're they're not great at communicating, or the dates aren't going that well.
有时候，我们会通过沉溺于幻想来应对，从而脱离了现实。
Sometimes we cope by getting into the fantasy and we actually leave the reality.
当我们脱离现实，活在幻想中时，我们就离开了自己的身体。
And when we leave reality and operate in the fantasy, we're out of our body.
我们实际上并不在自己的身体里。
We're actually not in our body.
我们处于轻微的解离状态。
We're slightly dissociated.
我们头脑和幻想中飘着，却忘了感受身体里正在发生的真实情况。
We're up here in our mind and our fantasy, and we forget to feel in our body what's actually happening.
所以，问问自己：这个人真正让你有什么感觉？
And so, hey, how is this person actually making me feel?
这能很好地让你回归当下，把注意力拉回身体。
Is a really good place to ground you, anchor you back in your body.
我见过太多人陷入断断续续的关系，或对方根本没用心投入，而自己却拼命追逐。这时你不妨问：这个人到底让你感觉如何？
The amount of times I would see people in very intermittent relationships or relationships where people weren't showing up and they're chasing, and you say, well, how is this person actually making you feel?
他们就会说：哦，我其实一直都很焦虑。
And they're like, oh, I'm actually anxious all the time.
我晚上根本睡不着，满脑子都是这个人，天哪，你知道的。
I'm actually like having a hard time sleeping at night, sensating this person, oh my God, you know.
所以这真的能让你稳住心神。
So it really anchors you.
这是个非常值得问自己的好问题。
It's a really good question to ask yourself.
然后我会让人们对这些进行评分。
And then I get people to rate.
你知道，你进去后，要追踪你的标准和需求。
You know, you go in, you track your standards, you track your needs.
在筛选他们的时候，你要把这一切写下来。
And as you're vetting them, you're journaling about it.
他们真的有做到这些吗？
Are they actually showing up for this?
如果你发现，哦，他们可能能做到，或者当你把这些写下来时，他们未来可能会做到，但我们必须不断回到现实。
And if you're seeing, oh, they could, or maybe they will in the future as you're journaling these things out, we have to keep coming back to the reality.
他们做到了吗？
Are they?
他们现在真的在做这些事吗？
Are they doing these things now?
因为当我们筛选某个人时，我们必须绝对明确地评估他们的行为，而不是他们的言辞。
Because when we, you know, whenever we're vetting somebody, we absolutely unequivocally have to be vetting their behavior, not their words.
这就是正确筛选的关键。
And that is the trick to vetting properly.
如果我们筛选的是他们的行为，那就是他们已经在做的事情。
If we vet their behavior, it's what they're already doing.
这很有趣，因为你的行为就是你真实的自我。
And it's interesting because your behavior is who you actually are.
你的行为是你潜意识中养成的习惯模式，而你的潜意识占据了你所有信念、思想、情感和行为的95%以上。
Your behavior is your subconscious habituated patterns and your subconscious makes up 95 plus percent of all of your beliefs and thoughts and emotions and actions.
所以当你从行为的角度出发时，哦，这个人发短信一直很一致。
And so when you're moving from a place of behavior, oh, this person is being consistent in how they text.
很好。
Good.
这就是他们的表现方式。
This is how they're showing up.
哦，这个人情绪上很开放，真正地倾听并在约会时全神贯注。
Oh, this person is emotionally available and really listening and being present on dates.
好的，很好。
Okay, great.
这就是他们的表现方式。
This is how they're showing up.
而不是基于我的期望，或我希望在他们的话语中看到的，比如他们说：‘我会试着多给你发消息。’
Versus in in my desires or what I would hope to see in their words, they say, oh, I'll try to text you more often.
没问题。
No problem.
但他们并没有。
But they don't.
对吧？
Right?
那么，那只是他们的愿望或言辞。
Well, then that's in their desires or their words.
而不是他们的行为。
It's not in their behavior.
因此，在筛选时，这是让我们锚定在真实与现实中的最佳方法之一，以免陷入幻想。
So when we're vetting, that's one of the best things to really keep us anchored in the truth and in the reality, so we don't get carried away from fantasy.
关于这一点，我想最后补充一点，这是一个非常好的问题：如果你发现自己总是容易被带偏，渴望被选中、想要赢得对方的青睐，并且你把这放在首位，那我们也要问自己，是什么让我在这种情况中感到如此安全和舒适？
And just the last thing I would say to that too, it was like such a good question, is if you find yourself being the person who has the tendency to get carried away and want to be chosen and want to win the person over and you're prioritizing that, we also have to ask ourselves what in me feels so safe and comfortable in that?
为什么我总是忽略自己，不断追逐、渴望被选中，把被选中的需求置于我的真实感受和需求是否得到满足之上？
Why do I keep leaving myself and chasing and wanting to be chosen and prioritizing the need to be chosen over how I'm actually feeling, how much my needs are actually met?
有时候，这是因为我们在童年时期就有过这样的感受。
And sometimes it's because we had a childhood where we felt like that.
有时候，这是因为这种模式对我们来说熟悉而舒适，因此显得安全。
Sometimes it's because that's what's familiar and comfortable for us and thus safe.
或者有时候，是因为我们深陷于一种巨大的创伤，害怕自己不够好。
Or sometimes it's because, you know, we're just caught in this huge wound of fearing not being good enough.
如果我们发现这些大的模式不断浮现，那就是深入探索它们的绝佳时机。
And if we see those big things popping out, then it's a really good time to dig into those things.
也许我们需要对这些核心信念进行一些重塑或疗愈，以便从不断重复这些模式中解脱出来。
Maybe do some rewiring or some healing around those core beliefs so that we can free ourselves from continuously enacting those patterns.
老实说，太棒了。
Honestly, amazing.
建议非常到位。
Spot on advice.
作为曾经确实有倾向去被选择、然后改变自己处理这些情况方式的人。
As someone who definitely used to have a tendency to be chosen and then change the way I approached those situations.
有效。
It works.
确实有效。
It definitely does.
没错。
Exactly.
好的。
Okay.
所以我们已经很好地筛选过了。
So we've we've vetted well.
我们已经尽职尽责了。
We've done our job.
我们非常擅长收集他人的推荐信、品格证明，理解人们的深层动机和真实面目。
We've been very good at getting people's references, getting people's character references, understanding people's, like, core motivations and who they are.
要进入蜜月期，需要什么条件？
What does it take to move into the honeymoon stage?
这个阶段是什么感觉？
And what does this stage feel like?
它与前后阶段的感受有何不同？
And how does it feel differently to the stages before and after?
是的。
Yeah.
好问题。
Great question.
从约会阶段走出来，我认为真正理解这一点非常重要。
So so coming out of the dating stage, and I think it's so important to like that really properly.
我还想说一点，因为有时候我发现人们会说，这就像一场面试。
I also wanna say one thing too, because sometimes I noticed people will be like, oh, it's like a job interview.
你并不希望约会变成一场面试。
Like, you don't want dating to be a job interview.
那不是目标。
That's not the goal.
所以你要确保，这就是为什么我总是说，每次约会只问一个问题，这样你才能享受过程、保持专注、做你自己，同时不断获得进展。
So you wanna make sure that you're, that's why I always say like ask one question per date because then you can have fun and be present and do your thing, but you're constantly getting, you're moving the needle.
你一直在一点点地获取那些重要的信息。
You're constantly learning a little bit of that important information.
所以通常来说，当我们觉得自己已经充分了解了对方，也感觉到对方也真正理解了你，当你逐渐进入蜜月期时，你会发现，这一阶段的标志是与对方共度更多时间。
So generally we tend to, once we feel like we've got a really good grasp of that, and once we feel like the other person you can tell has a grasp of you, what you'll start to see as you enter towards the honeymoon stage is it's marked by spending more time with somebody.
此时，我们通常已经几乎每天或每天都和对方保持联系。
Usually we're speaking to them quite consistently at this point, like almost every day or every day.
很多时候，你每周会和对方共度几个晚上，花大量时间在一起，你能感觉到，一个人不可能同时和多个人这样相处，或者，他们怎么可能一边维持工作，一边这样约会呢？这需要投入大量的时间。
A lot of times as well, it's like you'll spend a couple of nights a week with them, spending a lot of your time together, and you can tell, know, there's not really room for somebody to be doing this with multiple people in their lives or, you know, how would they hold down a job and date like this at the same time, you know, there's two, it's a lot of time commitment.
当我们看到这种进展时，通常在三到四个月左右是一个健康的时间点，因为你已经有机会收集到足够的信息。
And so once we see this progress towards that, usually around the three to four month mark is sort of healthy space where you've had the chance to collect enough information.
一旦关系中有了承诺，比如‘我们要在一起了，我们要彼此专一，只和对方约会’。
As soon as there is a commitment in a relationship, so hey, we're gonna be together, we're gonna be exclusive, it's just gonna be us dating each other.
一旦有了这样的对话，这就是标志着你进入蜜月期的正式仪式。
Once there's a conversation, that is the exact rite of passage that moves you into the honeymoon stage.
所以，一旦有了实际的对话，我们决定彼此承诺，要在一起，那时你就进入了。
So once there's an actual conversation, we decided to commit to each other, we're gonna be with each other, then there you are.
你已经进入了蜜月期。
You're in the honeymoon stage.
有些人会尝试更早进入这个阶段，有些人则会晚一些，但我发现，对于最安全型依恋的人而言，三到四个月通常是最佳阶段。
Now some people do try to move there a little earlier, some people do move there a little later, But three to four months is usually the best zone for people I find the most securely attached people actually move from that space.
这可以说是最佳的平衡点。
And it's kind of the sweet spot.
蜜月期就意味着：你们正式进入这段关系，彼此会更加坦诚和脆弱。
And the honeymoon stage then becomes okay, you're officially in this relationship and we'll be a little more vulnerable with each other.
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我们会更加坦诚地向彼此表达感受，尤其是表达爱意、关心和兴奋，并制定更长远的计划，比如一起去旅行或度假。
We'll be a little more open with each other with our feelings specifically expressing love, care, excitement, making longer term plans like maybe to go on a trip or a vacation.
会有一种逐渐增加的
Know, will be this sort of increase in
那种
kind of
没错，没错。
a Exactly, exactly.
你知道，这个阶段你会把这个人逐渐融入你的生活，介绍给你的朋友，与他们分享更多你的内心世界。
You know, there's this increase of bringing this person into your life, introducing them to your friends, sharing more of your internal world with them.
这是一个非常美好的阶段。
And it's a really beautiful phase.
在这个阶段，特别有趣的是，你可以看到人们体内的催产素水平会升高，而催产素是一种促进情感联结的神经化学物质。
And in this phase specifically, what's really interesting is you can see that people, they have elevated oxytocin in this stage, which is the bonding neurochemical.
他们的多巴胺水平也会升高，而多巴胺是一种与动机相关的神经化学物质。
They have elevated dopamine, which is the motivation neurochemical.
有趣的是，你有没有注意到，在蜜月期的人总是特别有动力想和对方一起出去做点什么，比如一起去吃饭。
And what's interesting about this is, have you ever noticed how people in the honeymoon stage, you're always like motivated to go out with them and do things with Let's go to dinner.
我们去这儿吧。
Let's go here.
你总是不停地谈论他们。
You're always talking about them constantly.
是啊。
Yeah.
你总是跟朋友和家人提起他们。
You're always talking about them with your friends and family.
我有个朋友现在就处在这一阶段。
I have a friend who's in this stage right now.
我挺喜欢的，但昨晚她来吃晚饭时，我简直受不了了，我真的再也听不下去关于他的事了。
Love it a bit, but she came over for dinner last night and I was like, I cannot I can't hear about him anymore.
真抱歉。
I'm so sorry.
但她简直着迷了。
But she's like so obsessed.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
我们体内有一整套复杂的神经化学物质组合。
And so we have all of this like neurochemical cocktail of things.
我们甚至还有苯乙胺这种神经化学物质，它与吸引力密切相关。
We even have the phenylethylamine neurochemical, which is all about attraction.
所以我们有这么多的联结、吸引力和动力，这些都会体现在人们的行为中。
So we have all of this like bonding attraction motivation, and you'll see it in people's behavior.
这是一个非常美好的阶段。
And it's a really beautiful stage.
在零到六个月之后，也就是约会的某个阶段，我们会进入大约一年到一年半的蜜月期。
And after the zero to six months, so somewhere in that range of dating, we then move into about a year to a year and a half of honeymoon.
有趣的是，很多人往往在这个阶段订婚、结婚，我知道很多这样的例子。
And interestingly enough, this is often where a lot of people will get engaged, get married, you know, I've seen a lot
了 和
of And
盖玛，当我还在线下经营诊所、还没进入线上领域时，我有很多客户会告诉我：泰兹，我娶了我妻子。
Gemma, the amount of people who I, when I was in the day when I was running my practice, before I went into all the online space, I would have so many clients who would say, Taiz, I married my wife.
但结婚两年后，一结婚她就变成了一个怪物。
And then after two years, as soon as after we got married, she turned into a monster.
或者我娶了我丈夫，可一结婚他就变成了另一个人，完全不像以前那样。
Or I married my husband as soon as I got married, turned into someone he's he never was.
人们会感到困惑，因为说实话，很多人以为大约有百分之十的人会在蜜月期结婚，婚后进入权力斗争阶段，便认为自己的配偶骗了自己，假装成另一个人，其实私下里是个真正的‘怪物’。
And people would get confused because honestly, lot of people would think I'd say like roughly ten percent of people would get married in the honeymoon stage, then move into the power struggle stage after marriage and think that their spouse, like, tricked them into marrying them or pretended to be someone that they weren't and that they were truly the secret, like, monster behind closed doors.
当我向人们解释时，我说：不。
And when people when I would explain to people, no.
不。
No.
不。
No.
只是你还太早了。
You just it's too early.
你还没进入权力斗争阶段。
You never made into the power struggle stage.
这是自然的。
This is natural.
这是正常的。
This is normal.
你只是需要学会应对这些出现的问题。
You just have learn to navigate these things that are coming up.
人们会感到极大的解脱，原来这只是个阶段。
The amount of relief people would have of, oh, it's a stage.
并不是我被欺骗了。
It's not that I was tricked.
你知道吗？
You know?
当人们进入权力斗争阶段时，很多人会感到一种近乎被背叛的感觉，因为你可能会和某人约会，对他感觉非常好，在九个月或一年后订婚，半年后结婚，而你仍然处于蜜月期。
And and a lot of people would feel almost a sense of betrayal when you move into the power struggle stage because, you know, you could date somebody, feel really good about them, get engaged at nine months or a year, get married, you know, half a year later and you're still in your honeymoon.
所以这个时候，通常是在接下来的一年到一年半左右。
So at this point of time, this is usually that next year to year and a half.
实际上，这是一个美好的时期，充满乐趣，有很多美好的事情。
And we'll actually, you know, it's a beautiful time, it's lots of fun, all these great things.
但还有一个非常重要的是，人们仍然处于条件性爱的阶段，因为你还没有进行过艰难的对话，没有像在权力斗争阶段那样充分展示和分享你内心深处的恐惧与缺陷。
But something else really important to note is that people are still moving from more conditionally based love, because you haven't had to have the hard conversations, show and share a lot of your deep inner fears and flaws the way that you will just more in the power struggle stage.
所以你仍然戴着一点面具。
And so you still have the mask on a little bit.
你仍然在某种程度上表现得最好，或许还在思考要向对方展示或分享什么。
You're still kind of a little on your best behavior, maybe kind of thinking about what you're gonna really show or share with the person.
一旦我们开始真正感到舒适，一旦我们放下面具，让对方走进来，当我们进入这种舒适的状态时，所有这些神经化学物质实际上都会减少，比如苯乙胺、催产素和多巴胺，当我们变得更舒适时，就会进入权力斗争阶段。
And so once we start getting really comfortable, and once we start letting down the mask and letting somebody in, when we get into that space of comfort, all of those neurochemicals actually reduce, okay, so the phenylethylamine and the oxytocin and dopamine, we start getting more comfortable, we enter into the power struggle.
正是这一点触发了权力斗争本身，因为我们开始说：嘿，这其实让我无法接受。
And it's precisely this that actually triggers off the power struggle itself, because we'll start saying, hey, actually, that's not okay with me.
这其实是我的一条界限。
Actually, that's a boundary for me.
我之前是这么说的，但其实我不是那个意思。
Actually, I know I said it like this, but I don't.
嗯。
Yeah.
一旦人们开始分享更多内心深处的世界，这对很多人来说是一种危机，但也是一个机会。
Soon as people start sharing more of their deep inner world, it's a crisis for people, but it's also an opportunity.
这就像是一个挑战，因为我们现在看到了关于对方的这些深入洞察，必须想办法将它们融合起来。
It's like, there's this challenge, because now we're seeing all these, you know, in-depth insights into somebody, and we have to figure out how to mesh them.
一开始这可能会非常困难。
And that can be really hard at first.
但与此同时，你也获得了深入了解你所爱之人、让对方更深入地进入你的世界，并以更深层次的真诚与他们分享的机会。
But you're also getting this deep opportunity to see into somebody way more that you love and to let them into your world way more, and to share your authenticity at a deeper level with them.
如果我们经历权力斗争，事情反而可能变得非常美好，关系中也会因此涌现出许多丰富的内容。
So if we do the power struggle, right, then things can be really beautiful and a lot of, you know, richness in the relationship can come out of that.
但从蜜月期到权力斗争期的真正转折点，是你开始变得更加自在。
But really that marked rite of passage from the honeymoon to the power struggle is you start getting more comfortable.
一旦你变得更加自在，面具就会更多地脱落，而这正是触发权力斗争阶段的原因。
And as soon as you get more comfortable, the mask drops more and that will be what triggers off the power struggle stage.
好的。
Okay.
我非常期待向你提出一些后续问题，因为我确实有很多问题。
I'm so excited to ask you some follow-up questions because I have them, of course.
但我们现在要短暂休息一下。
But we are gonna take a short break here.
回来后，我们将进一步讨论权力斗争阶段、节奏阶段和奉献阶段。
When we come back, we're gonna talk more about the power struggle stage, rhythm stage, devotion stage.
请继续关注我们。
Stay with us.
我们马上回来。
We'll be right back.
我是调查记者梅丽莎·耶尔岑。
I'm investigative journalist Melissa Jeltsin.
我的新播客《纳什维尔发生了什么》讲述了某辅助生殖诊所灾难性倒闭，以及患者们在随之而来的混乱中团结起来的故事。
My new podcast, What Happened in Nashville, tells the story of an IVF clinic's catastrophic collapse and the patients who banded together in the chaos that followed.
我们有一些突发新闻要告诉你们。
We have some breaking news to tell you about.
田纳西州总检察长正在起诉一位纳什维尔的医生。
Tennessee's attorney general is suing a Nashville doctor.
2024年4月，一家位于纳什维尔的生育诊所一夜之间关闭，超过一千个冷冻胚胎被锁在门内。
In April 2024, a fertility clinic in Nashville shut down overnight, and trapped behind locked doors were more than a thousand frozen embryos.
我非常害怕。
I was terrified.
在我们整个经历中，最让我
Out of all of our journey, that
那是最糟糕的时刻。
was the worst moment ever.
那时我根本没有意识到，接下来会爆发怎样的斗争。
At that point, it didn't occur to me what fight was gonna come to follow.
但这个故事不仅仅关乎几个家庭的未来。
But this story isn't just about a few families' futures.
它关乎现代生育护理的承诺是否真的值得信赖。
It's about whether the promise of modern fertility care can be trusted at all.
我抗争得再努力也没用。
It doesn't matter how much I fight.
我为这一切哭得再多也没用。
Doesn't matter how much I cry over all of this.
无论我们获得多少正义都没用。
It doesn't matter how much justice we get.
这些都无法让我怀孕。
None of it's gonna get me pregnant.
在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或你常用的播客平台收听纳什维尔发生的事。
Listen to what happened in Nashville on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
嗨，凯尔。
Hi, Kyle.
你能起草一份简单的商业计划书吗？就一页，用 Google 文档，然后把链接发给我？
Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan, just one page, as a Google Doc and send me the link?
谢谢。
Thanks.
嘿。
Hey.
我刚给你把那份一页纸的商业计划写好了。
Just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you.
这是链接。
Here's the link.
但根本就没有链接。
But there was no link.
根本没有商业计划。
There was no business plan.
这不怪他。
It's not his fault.
我还没来得及给凯尔编程实现这个功能。
I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet.
我叫埃文·拉蒂夫。
My name is Evan Ratliff.
在听了OpenAI首席执行官萨姆·阿尔特曼说的很多类似事情后，我决定创建我的AI联合创始人凯尔。
I decided to create Kyle, my AI cofounder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO Sam Altman.
有一个赌局，赌第一年会出现一家由一个人创立的十亿美元公司，
There's this betting pool for the first year that there's a one person billion dollar company,
如果没有AI，这简直是难以想象的，但现在
which would have been, like, unimaginable without AI, and now
这种情况一定会发生。
it will happen.
我开始想，我能不能成为那个人？
I got to thinking, could I be that one person?
我之前为我获奖的播客《壳牌游戏》制作过AI代理。
I'd made AI agents before for my award winning podcast, Shell Game.
在《壳牌游戏》本季中，我试图用虚构的人来打造一家拥有真实产品的真正公司。
This season on Shell Game, I'm trying to build a real company with a real product run by fake people.
嘿，埃文。
Oh, hey, Evan.
很高兴你加入我们。
Good to have you join us.
我找到了一些关于AI代理在中小型企业中采用率的有趣数据。
I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents in small to medium businesses.
在iHeartRadio应用或你收听播客的任何平台收听《壳牌游戏》。
Listen to Shell Game on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
你好。
Hi.
这里是幸福实验室的洛里·桑托斯医生。
Doctor Lori Santos from the Happiness Lab here.
这是给予的季节，因此我的播客与GiveDirectly合作，这是一家为极端贫困人口提供所需现金的非营利组织。
It's the season of giving, which is why my podcast is partnering with GiveDirectly, a nonprofit that provides people in extreme poverty with the cash they need.
今年，我们参与了‘播客对抗贫困’活动。
This year, we're taking part in the Pods Fight Poverty campaign.
这不仅仅是幸福实验室的行动。
And it's not just the Happiness Lab.
我一些最喜欢的播客主持人也参与了进来。
Some of my favorite podcasters are also taking part.
比如《专注人生》的杰·沙蒂、《十分快乐》的丹·哈里斯，以及《上帝如何运作》的戴夫·迪斯滕诺等等。
Think Jay Shetty from On Purpose, Dan Harris from ten percent Happier, and Dave Disteno from How God Works and more.
我们今年的目标是筹集100万美元，帮助卢旺达700多个生活在极端贫困中的家庭。
Our goal this year is to raise $1,000,000, which will help over 700 families in Rwanda living in extreme poverty.
以下是具体运作方式。
Here's how it works.
您捐赠给GiveDirectly，他们会将现金直接交给有需要的家庭。
You donate to give directly, and they put that cash directly into the hands of families in need.
因为这些家庭最清楚自己需要什么，无论是购买牲畜来肥沃农田、支付学费，还是创办小生意。
Because those families know best what they need, whether it's buying livestock to fertilize their farm, paying school fees, or starting a small business.
有了这些支持，家庭可以投资未来，实现持久的改变。
With that support, families can invest in their future and build lasting change.
所以，请和我以及您喜爱的播客主持人一起参与 Pods Fight Poverty 活动。
So join me and your favorite podcasters in the Pods Fight Poverty campaign.
前往 givedirectly.org/happinesslab 了解更多信息并做出贡献。
Head to givedirectly.org/happinesslab to learn more and make a contribution.
如果您是首次捐赠者，Giving Multiplier 还将匹配您的捐赠。
And if you're a first time donor, Giving Multiplier will even match your gift.
要捐赠，请访问 givedirectly.org/happinesslab。
That's givedirectly.org/happinesslab to donate.
你好。
Hi.
我是普里扬卡·瓦利医生。
I'm doctor Priyanka Wally.
我是哈里昆达博卢。
And I'm Harikundaboglu.
在我们的新播客《健康那些事》中，我们将揭开您最关心的健康问题的神秘面纱。
On our new podcast, Health Stuff, we demystify your burning health questions.
你会听到我们对自己健康问题的坦诚分享。
You'll hear us being completely honest about our own health.
我现在谈的是非常严肃的话题，你却在笑我。
I'm talking about very serious stuff right now, and you're laughing at me.
你还会听到专家们坦诚的建议和个人故事，他们希望让医疗更有人情味。
And you'll hear candid advice and personal stories from experts who want to make healthcare more human.
有时候，你的角色是倾听、理解、共情，也许为他们正在经历的事情提供一个解释或名称。
Sometimes you're there to listen, to understand, to empathize, maybe to give them an understanding or a name for what's going on.
这种理解对人们帮助很大，让他们知道这并不是只存在于他们的想象中。
That helps people a lot, understanding that it's not just in their head.
我们正在解析科学原理，与专家对话，并分享你可以在日常生活中实际使用的实用健康建议。
We are breaking down the science, talking with experts, and sharing practical health tips you can actually use in your day to day life.
从何时使用和避免人工照明，到如何睡得更好。
From when to utilize and avoid artificial light to how to sleep better.
关于膳食纤维以及如何更顺畅排便的所有你需要知道的信息。
Everything you need to know about fiber and how to poop better.
如何减轻时差的影响，以及在困境中保持希望。
How to minimize the effects of jet lag and how to stay hopeful in times of distress.
我们人类，所追求的不过是连接。
We human beings, all we want is connection.
我们只是想彼此建立联系。
We just wanna connect with each other.
我们希望让健康变得不那么令人困惑，甚至带点趣味。
We wanna make health less confusing and maybe even a little fun.
在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或你收听播客的任何平台找到《健康那些事》。
Find health stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
嗨。
Hi.
我是拉迪·德夫卢卡，我是《好好哭一场》播客的主持人。
I'm Radhi Devlukha, and I am the host of A Really Good Cry podcast.
本周，我邀请到了安娜·伦克尔，她也被称为“糟糕童年仙女”，是一位创作者、导师和引导者，帮助人们疗愈来自不安全或混乱童年的持久情感创伤。
This week, I am joined by Anna Runkle, also known as the crappy childhood fairy, a creator, teacher, and guide helping people heal from the lasting emotional wounds of unsafe or chaotic childhoods.
我们谈论了小时候经历的事情如何仍在我们的成年生活中显现，影响着我们的关系、反应，甚至是我们对自己身体的感受。
We talk about how the things we went through when we were younger can still show up in our adult lives, in our relationships, our reactions, even in the way we feel in our own bodies.
安娜也分享了她自己的故事：她是如何察觉到自己陷入的模式，以及她是如何慢慢教会自己的身体——现在是安全的。
And Anna opens up about her own story, what helped her notice the patterns she was stuck in, and how she slowly started teaching her body that it is safe now.
当我被袭击时，那完全是随机的。
So when I got attacked, it was very random.
四个男人从车里冲出来，开始殴打我，他们打碎了我的下巴和牙齿。
Four guys jumped out of a car and just started beating me And and my they broke my jaw and my teeth.
我当时失去了意识。
I was unconscious.
然后我醒了过来，大喊起来。
Then I woke up and I screamed.
我大喊是因为，尽管我不知道自己是谁，也不清楚身在何处，但内心深处有个声音在说：等等。
And I screamed because even though I didn't know who I was or where I was, something in me was just like, hold on.
等等。
Wait.
他们可能会杀了我，但我不会让这种情况发生。
They could kill me, and I'm not gonna let that happen.
我不会让这种情况发生。
I'm not gonna let that happen.
我会挺过这一关，而我也确实做到了。
I'm gonna get through this, and I did.
收听《一次很好的哭泣》播客
Listen to A Really Good Cry on
在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或你收听播客的任何平台。
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
所以我之前提过，我和伴侣已经在一起快三年了，最近我们确实进入了权力斗争阶段。
So I kind of mentioned I me and my partner have been together for almost three years, and we definitely hit the power struggle stage recently.
对吧？
Right?
我们正在一起搬去海外，所有这些重要的里程碑事件都发生了。
We are in the process of moving overseas together and all these, like, big milestones happened.
当这种摩擦刚开始出现时，我内心确实有一部分在想：天哪。
And there was definitely a part of me when this friction started emerging where I was like, oh my gosh.
天哪。
Oh my gosh.
我们经历了这么多，也许这段关系并不合适，或者我们并不匹配。
Like, this we've made like, maybe this relationship isn't right or that like, maybe we don't we're not compatible.
现在我们可能已经稍微度过了这个阶段，你觉得为什么必须经历这个阶段呢？
Having, like, kind of now probably moved a little bit more over this hill, why do you think this stage has to happen?
为什么很多人在这个阶段分手，无论对错？
And why do you think a lot of people break up in this stage, whether rightly or wrongly?
是的。
So yes.
非常好的问题。
Such a great question.
所以，正如你所说，几乎每个人，包括那些安全型依恋的人，在权力斗争阶段都会经历这样的想法。
So to your point, every single person pretty much across the boards, even securely attached people, they have moments of those thoughts in the power struggle stage.
所以我认为最重要的一点是，当你问‘这对吗？’
So I think that's one of the most important things to say is that, when you said, is this right?
我们合适吗？
Are we compatible?
这段关系有效吗？
Is this working?
这些想法非常正常，这是每个人都会经历的。
Like that is so normal and that's every person's experience.
正是因为在这个阶段出现了摩擦，所以显然，如果一个人每天都在爆发激烈争吵、整天痛苦不堪，然后才开始问这些问题，那和那种自然发生的、随着人生阶段变化而产生的自我怀疑是不同的。
And it's because we have this friction in this stage and so you know obviously there's a difference if somebody's like having these explosive arguments every day all day and they're miserable and then they're asking those questions but there is a natural just like when we we go through stages of life, sometimes we question ourselves and different things.
你知道，也许可以开始一份新职业。
You know, maybe start a new career.
等等，我真的能做到吗？
Wait, can I really do this?
我走对路了吗？
Am I on the right track?
你知道，当我们遇到问题时，总会有一些自然的不安浮现出来。
You know, there's these natural sort of insecurities that pop up when we have problems.
我发现，对人们来说，听到这一点是最让人宽慰的，因为这种事情确实会发生。
And, I and find that to be one of the most relieving things for people to hear because, you know, people would happen.
人们在这一阶段分手的最主要原因之一，就是太过认真地对待这些想法。
One of the biggest reasons people break up in that stage is they take those thoughts so seriously.
然后他们开始灾难化思考，过度放大问题。
And then they start catastrophizing and magnifying.
接着他们就用这种视角来看待一切。
And then they see everything through that lens.
他们就会想，看吧，我们根本不合适。
And they're like, see, oh my gosh, we're not compatible.
我就知道。
I knew it.
然后他们越来越深陷其中。
And then they like play into it more and more.
而另一方也在做同样的事。
And then the other person's doing the same thing.
于是我们就陷入了一个恶性循环，但实际上，我发现如果人们能明白，这个阶段难免会有些令人不安，你总会在这个阶段的某些时刻产生怀疑，质疑这段关系。
And then we have this vicious cycle that happens when in reality, find that if people just knew that, hey, this stage is going be a little bit confronting, you're going to have moments at times in the stage, especially when it starts off where there's doubts and you question the relationship.
就像你开始一份新工作，有个学习过程，你也会想：我真能做好这份工作吗？
Just like if you start a new career, and it's a learning curve, you're going be like, wait, am I good enough to do this?
我们就是这样。
Like we do that.
这是人之常情，非常正常。
And it's human, and it's so normal.
所以我认为，首先这是一个非常重要的点，然后进入这个阶段是必要的，因为我认为这是一个非常美好的阶段。
So I just that's a huge thing first and then going into it, the stage is necessary because it is, I think it's such a beautiful stage.
人们身处其中时，不喜欢听到这种说法。
People don't like to hear that when they're in it.
但没错，这是一个美好的阶段，因为人们有机会从条件式的爱，转向无条件的爱。
But yeah, it's I'm a beautiful stage Because people get this opportunity to move the needle from more conditionally based love to more unconditionally based love.
所以经常有人对我说：‘泰兹，如果我想永远停留在蜜月期怎么办？'
And so often people would say to me, Taiz, what if I want to stay in the honeymoon stage forever?
我会问：‘你真的想永远只条件性地爱你的伴侣吗？'
And I'm like, do you want to just conditionally love your partner forever?
因为即使这很可怕，但你能真正了解这个人，深入了解他们的恐惧、缺点和需求。
Like, is that what because even though it's scary, you know, you get to see into this person, you get to like really learn about their fears and their flaws and their needs more deeply.
你必须学会走出这个阶段，有效度过它，学会如何应对冲突、如何展现脆弱。
And you'll have to learn to move out of the stage and move through the stage effectively, how to navigate conflict, how to be vulnerable.
人们分手的最主要原因之一，也就是你问题的第二部分，是因为如果你不学会脆弱，就根本无法走出这个阶段。
One of the biggest reasons people break up to the second part of your question is that you actually will not be able to make it out of the stage unless you learn vulnerability.
而且
And
我记得当我之前参加你的节目时，你分享了一个非常感人的故事，你谈到了自己如何展现脆弱，分享了一些对你来说很脆弱的事情，而结果却很好，那种瞬间让你感到‘哇’的体验。
I remember when when I joined you on an episode a while back and you shared on the episode, it was such a touching way you shared it and and you talked about like sort of being vulnerable and sharing something that was vulnerable for you and it going well and just having this sort of like wow like moment of receiving that.
你可以回想一下，对于任何经历过这种时刻的人来说，在你第一次以一种相当深刻的方式对某人展现脆弱之前，那一刻是什么样的。
And you can think back, know, for anybody who's ever been through that the moment before you're vulnerable for the first time with somebody in a pretty meaningful way.
那令人恐惧，真的非常可怕。
It's terrifying, it's so scary.
但当你进行了一次顺利的对话后，那将是一次巨大的突破。
But the moment when you've had the conversation that goes well, it's a huge breakthrough.
一旦你这样做了一次，然后两次，再几次，现在你们俩开始彼此这样做了，你们实际上正在为你们的关系建立深厚的根基。
And once you do that once, and then twice, and then a few more times, and now you're both doing it with each other, you're literally building such deep roots for your tree.
你们真正进入了一个根系正在生长、变得越来越稳固，让整棵树更加坚不可摧的阶段。
Like you're truly getting into a space where like the roots are building and they're growing and they're becoming, they're making the tree so much more unshakable.
所以，当你进入这个阶段时，是的，这是一场危机，因为会有一些艰难的事情出现，而且统计上显示，人们在初期争吵会更多。
And so, you know, once you get into that space, it's yes, a crisis because there's hard things that will come up and it's marked by, you know, statistically people will argue more at the beginning.
如果你能几乎画出关系的发展曲线，你会看到：约会阶段、蜜月期，接着是迷恋的高峰，然后进入权力斗争阶段，充满争吵，之后冲突会大幅减少。
You'll see if you can almost graph relationships, you go dating, honeymoon, there's this peak of infatuation, power struggle, it's like all this fighting, and then the conflict goes way down.
权力斗争的核心意义在于，我们实际上必须完成四个主要的成长阶段，如果这四点做不好，我们就会长期困在权力斗争中，或者关系会因此终结。
And the whole point of the power struggle, and there's really like four major rites of passage, like we have to get these four things right or we'll stay stuck in the power struggle forever or the relationship will end within it.
第一是脆弱性。
Number one is vulnerability.
也就是说，学会真正地向他人袒露你的内心世界。
Okay, so learning to actually share your inner world vulnerably.
我先讲一个故事。
I'll tell a story here for a second.
我曾经有个客户，她是个非常可爱、了不起、纯粹美好的人，拥有许多优秀的品质，但她对自己要求极高，总想在各方面都做到完美，外表光鲜、一丝不苟，工作出色，一切看起来都很完美，但她始终无法摆脱权力斗争阶段，她只渴望一段持久的亲密关系。
I had this client once and she was like this lovely, amazing, just beautiful human being, had like all these great qualities, put a lot of pressure on herself to be perfect in every way, like so put together, so precise about everything, had a great job, everything on paper, and she never ever could make it out of the power struggle stage with people and she just wanted a loving long term relationship.
但当我们深入探究她的童年时，发现她的父亲非常自我中心，总是让她怀疑自己，她必须完美无缺才能获得父亲的爱，诸如此类的情况。
But when we looked into her childhood, what we found is that she had a father who was quite narcissistic and always made her feel like second guessing herself and and she had to be perfect to get love from him and all these things.
因此，她从不让人看到自己不完美的那一面。
So she never would let somebody see her in her imperfections.
当人们和她分手时，常见的说法是：‘我觉得我还是不了解你是谁。’
And when people would break up with her in relationships, the common theme is people would say, I feel like I still don't know who you are.
我觉得我们根本没有任何进展。
And I feel like we're like not getting anywhere.
是的。
Yeah.
无论一个人表面上多么完美，生活多么有条理，或者你提到的任何其他方面。
And it's truly no matter how quote unquote perfect somebody is or how well they have their life together or how you know, you name it.
如果我们不能展现脆弱，那么脆弱正是让我们从迷恋走向真爱的关键。
If we can't get vulnerable, vulnerability is exactly what moves us from infatuation to real love.
是的。
Yeah.
你完全可以有力地论证，即使我们在约会和蜜月阶段能够相爱，那仍然是一种基于迷恋的爱。
And you could make a pretty strong argument that even though we can love in in the dating and honeymoon stage, it's still kind of an infatuation based love.
它依然根植于迷恋。
It's still rooted in infatuation.
当我们进入权力斗争阶段，真正让对方深入自己的内心，坦诚相见，并深入了解彼此的敏感点和恐惧时，这种脆弱感会孕育出更无条件的爱。
And you know, when we move into like the power struggle and we really deeply let somebody in and really let ourselves be seen and really learn about what each other's sensitivities are and fears, that vulnerability breeds much more unconditionally based love.
我们由此获得了通往这种爱的入口。
And we get this opening into that.
因此，脆弱性是一个重要的成长仪式，而脆弱性也伴随着我们深入学习如何满足彼此的需求，这是第二点。
And so vulnerability is this huge rite of passage and vulnerability then goes with us deeply learning how to meet each other's needs, number two.
第三点是，真正学会共同应对彼此恐惧和需求所带来的冲突。
And number three is like really learning how to navigate conflict around each other's fears and needs together.
举个例子，你可以想象一对情侣，其中一方非常需要对方的陪伴。
And so as an example, you know, you can think, let's say there's a couple and let's say one person in the couple is somebody who needs a lot of presence.
他们希望对方能关注自己、与自己同在，并且非常重视情感连接的深度。
They want somebody to be attuned to them and be present with them and they really value like depth of emotional connection.
而另一方可能恰恰相反，对一方来说，这种需求很重要，但另一方则更需要在收到反馈时被温柔地对待。
And let's say we have another person in the couple who, you know, maybe that's a big need for the one person and maybe the other person, they really need gentle communication when they're getting feedback.
也许他们对批评比较敏感，不太能接受批评或反馈。
Maybe they are a little sensitive to criticism and they don't take criticism or feedback that well.
他们某种程度上会被伤害，对此比较敏感。
They kind of, you know, it wounds them a little bit and they're sensitive to it.
所以，在这种情况下，如果一方不够在场，另一方说话又有点严厉或挑剔，而双方又不了解这是权力斗争阶段，也不知道如何应对，就可能分手。
So, you know, in this particular case, those could be issues where if one person's not that present and one person is a little more harsh or critical with their words, if somebody doesn't know there's a power struggle stage and know how to navigate it, then they could break up.
但如果我们能谈论这些问题，那个对批评敏感的人可能会说：‘嘿，我想试着听你的反馈，但你能不能在表达时更温和一点？’
But instead, if we have the ability to talk about these things, and the person who's sensitive to feedback might say, Hey, I want to try to hear feedback from you, but can you be a little more gentle in your delivery?
因为你知道，有时候这对我来说有点难。
Because, you know, it's a little hard for me sometimes.
说出这些话需要一定程度的脆弱性。
And it takes a certain degree of vulnerability to say that.
但如果另一方愿意为此努力，回应这种需求并加以练习，而另一方也愿意说：‘好吧，我会调整我的表达方式，一定会更温和、更体贴。’
But then if the other person is willing to do that work and meet them on that and practice that, And then if the person who, you know, say the other half of the couple is going, and okay, I'll work with my delivery, I'll be a little more gentle and considerate for sure.
同时，我也需要你有时能更在场一些，你知道，真正地倾听对我来说非常重要。
And also I need you to be a little more present sometimes, you know, somebody being present and, and, you know, really listening is, is really important to me.
另一方则会说：‘好的，我也会在这方面努力。’
And the other person is okay, and I'll work on that too.
我们不可能一下子就能做到完美，这需要一些时间来练习和解决这些问题。
We're not going to be perfect at it all of a sudden, know, it takes a little bit of time to practice and work these things through.
但一旦他们真正达成这种中间地带，那时才真正开始建立强大的根基。
But once they actually meet in this in the middle ground, that's precisely when it's like, okay, now we're building really powerful roots.
现在我们学会了自然地彼此体谅，因为我们曾为此敞开心扉。
Now we know how to naturally take each other into consideration because we were vulnerable about these things.
我们听到了彼此的恐惧、缺点或敏感之处。
We heard each other's fears or flaws or sensitivities.
我们听到了彼此的需求，而这让我们能够更好地应对冲突。
We heard each other's needs, and now that equips us to properly navigate conflict.
因此，当冲突出现时，如果我们能以脆弱、开放和接纳的态度来面对——在这种情况中，所有这些因素都会共同作用，帮助我们建立更健康的整体模式，即使我们需要在双方都做出一些微小的让步。
And so when conflict comes up, if we can approach conflict with vulnerability, with openness, with acceptance in this particular case, all of these things start feeding together into us building healthier collective patterns, where we may have to make slight compromises on each side.
但这里有趣的是，很多处于权力斗争阶段的人会说：‘是的，我必须在权力斗争阶段学会更好地应对冲突。’
But what's so interesting here is a lot of people in the power struggle stage will say, yeah, I have to learn to navigate conflict a little bit more in the power struggle stage.
‘必须’？为什么我们非得把每件事都摊开来讲、都要讨论清楚？
Have to there's why do we have to hash everything out or talk about everything?
这只是一段时间的事情。
It's only for a period of time.
你会有更多的对话和争执，因为你们正在融合彼此的内心世界。
You'll have more conversations and more arguments because you're fusing your inner world.
你们必须谈论那些彼此还不了解的事情。
You have to talk about all these things that you don't know about each other yet.
但一旦你们自然地做到这一点，假设是我和我丈夫，假设我更希望对方多陪伴，而他则更希望得到更温和的批评和更好的表达方式。
But once you naturally, okay, so let's pretend it's me and my husband, and let's say I'm the person who wants more presence, and maybe he's the person who wants conflict, know, kinder criticism and better delivery.
如果我们开始实践这些做法，一起练习并逐渐提升，我会自然地更注意自己的表达方式，而他也会自然地努力放下手机，在我们共处时更加专注。
If we start doing those things, and we practice them together, and we get better at them, and I naturally am more mindful in in my delivery, he naturally makes an effort to, you know, put his phone away and be more present when we spend time together.
当你们真正融合在一起时，这种融合正是第四阶段，它会让我们走出权力斗争，进入节奏。
Then when we fuse into that together, it's exactly the fusing, and that's that fourth part, that moves us out of the power struggle and into the rhythm.
因为现在我们进入了节奏，进入了这些行为的流动状态，我们共同努力过，双方都做出了妥协，而且顺便说一句，我们通常做出的那些妥协实际上会促进双方的成长，让我们更加亲密。
Because now we're in the rhythm, we're in the flow of doing these things, we worked on them together, we both made compromises, and by the way, usually the exact compromises that we'll make actually grow both of us and bring us closer together.
而通过这样做，你们就进入了这种节奏，不再需要频繁地讨论这些事情了。
And now in doing that, you get into this rhythm, you don't have to talk about all these things so much.
你知道，自然而然地，比如我和我丈夫。
You know how to you know naturally how to I let's pretend it's me and my husband.
我自然知道在对丈夫说话时要温和。
I naturally know to be kind in my delivery with my husband.
我自然已经练习过这一点。
I naturally have practiced that.
这已经成了本能。
It gets wired in.
现在这成了我自然而然的行为。
And now it's just something I do.
这正是我们开始走出权力斗争阶段的时候。
And that's that's exactly and precisely when we start exiting the power struggle stage.
当我们已经充分讨论了重要的事情，并在关系中真正建立了这些新习惯时，我们就迎来了这一成年礼——突然间，我们无需思考、争论或谈论，就能彼此体谅。
It's the rite of passage of when we've hashed out the important things enough, and we actually built in these new habits in the relationship where all of a sudden we consider each other without having to think it through or argue about it or talk about it.
然后，我们每个人都能在关系中感受到被爱，正如我们各自所渴望的那样。
And then we feel more loved as we each need to feel loved in a relationship.
现在我们进入了生活的节奏，这正是让我们走出这一阶段并进入下一阶段的原因。
And now we're in the rhythm of things, and that's what takes us out of that stage and into the next one.
听起来对我来说非常积极。
Which all sounds honestly very positive to me.
我想说的是，你认识的每一对长期伴侣关系都经历过这个阶段。
And something I will say is you will be surprised how every single long term couple relationship that you know has gone through this stage.
每一个都是如此。
Like, every single one.
我跟我的朋友们聊了太多次了，他们都说：哦，是的。
I've been talking to my friends so much about it, and they're like, oh, yeah.
当然了。
Like, of course.
我们也经历过。
We had that.
当然了。
Of of course.
而且你对伴侣产生的爱，真的比蜜月阶段要更深沉。
Like and the love that you start to feel for your partner is honestly bigger than the honeymoon stage will ever be.
对我来说，蜜月阶段就像吃一大碗糖果、甜食、马尔泰斯和爆米花。
Like, the honeymoon stage to me and how I imagine it is like eating a big bowl of candy and like sweets and like maltesers and popcorn.
它太美味了。
It's like so delicious.
对吧？
Right?
你就是想不停地吃、吃、吃。
And you just wanna eat and eat and eat.
然后，当你进入下一个阶段时，我猜我们现在要进入节奏阶段了。
And then, like, when you move I'm guessing now we're gonna go into the rhythm stage into this stage.
这就像是享用一顿极其营养的家常菜。
It's like having, like, an incredibly nourishing home cooked meal.
没错。
Yeah.
它可能不像一 Bowl 真正的软糖那样味道那么强烈，但它对你来说好得多，而且实际上味道也更好。
It might not, like, taste as, like, electric as a bowl of, like, literal gummy bears, but, like, it's so much better for you, and it does actually taste better as well.
我们来谈谈节奏阶段。
Let's talk about the rhythm stage.
你已经解释了我们如何通过经历冲突、展现脆弱以及其他那些成年仪式来到这个阶段。
You've explained how we get to this stage by moving through conflict, being vulnerable, all those other rites of passage.
在这个时刻，感觉是怎样的？
What does it feel like in this moment?
是的。
Yeah.
我太喜欢你的这个比喻了。
I love your analogy so much.
我经常说，这有点像是追求快乐与追求满足之间的区别。
I've often said it's sort of like the pleasure seeking versus the fulfillment.
哦，我喜欢
Oh, I love
是的，我们会感到一种兴奋，但满足感总能超越对愉悦的追求，你知道的，成长会不断持续，越来越深。
Yeah, we get this like, oh, like exciting, but like fulfillment can always outgrow pleasure seeking, you know, like, yeah, building grows and grows and grows, and there's a depth to it.
而愉悦总是会碰到一个玻璃天花板，好吧，挺酷的。
And, and pleasure always hits like a glass ceiling, like, okay, cool.
这很令人兴奋。
This is exciting.
但你只能走这么远。
But you can only really get so far.
当你非常了解一个人，和他们深入交流，让他们看到最真实的你，同时你也感受到被看见、被理解、被懂得时，那种对爱与关怀的深度是无可比拟的。
The depth of like love and care that you can feel somebody for somebody when you know them so well, and you've talked things out and you let them see you so deeply and you feel seen and known and understood.
这完全是另一种体验。
It's just such a totally different experience.
所以我喜欢这个比喻，糖果 versus 家常饭，后者更有营养、更好，没错，太棒了。
So I love that analogy, candy versus the home cooked meal, which is more nourishing and better And for yeah, that's fantastic.
一旦我们进入节奏阶段，我觉得你描述得非常优美。
So once we get into the rhythm stage, I think you described it so beautifully.
你会感受到这种深层次的爱，并从这段关系中获得极其深刻的滋养。
It's like, you'll feel this depth of love and you'll feel nourished by the relationship in a really profound way.
你会明白，这里有一种安心感、平静感，以及能够依赖这个人的感觉。
And you'll know that there's a sense of comfort there, the sense of peace, the sense of being able to rely on this person.
你会觉得这个人真正了解你，而你也向他敞开了心扉。
You'll feel like that person really knows you and you've let them in.
而很多人，他们卡住了。
And, you know, so many people, they they get stuck.
我之前已经提到过这一点，但很多人确实卡在了权力斗争阶段。
And I know I mentioned this at a high level earlier, but, like, so many people get stuck in the power struggle stage.
他们没有机会意识到，关系远不止是高潮与低谷的交替。
And then they they don't get the opportunity to think that relationships are more than just the highs and lows.
这是另一件非常重要、人们需要听到和发现的事：当你正经历困难时期，并不意味着这就是关系的极限。
And that's another really important thing, you know, for people to hear, find, is that, hey, just because you're going through a hard time doesn't mean that that's, like, the cap of of the relationship.
一旦你学会了在这些实践中进行沟通与展现脆弱，一切就会突然改变，事情开始好转，你几乎是在一个非常大的程度上升级了。
Once you can learn communication and vulnerability in these practices, all of a sudden the needle moves, like all of a sudden things change and, and you get to enrich, it's almost like you level up in a really big way.
在节奏阶段，首先发生的一件事就是，说实话，你会松一口气。
And so in the rhythm stage, one of the first things that happens is like you catch your breath, quite honestly.
有一种安定感、满足感和安宁感，因为你刚刚经历了恋爱和蜜月期的高峰，紧接着又经历了权力斗争的低谷。
Like there's a settling in, there's a fulfillment, there's a contentment because you're kind of coming from like high high of dating and honeymoon and then low low of the power struggle by comparison.
天哪。
And then it's like, my gosh.
我们来到了一个中间地带，一个和谐的空间，在这里我们不再有冲突。
We get to this middle ground, this harmonious space, this space where we're not having conflict.
我们几乎会提前避免冲突，只是彼此关心对方。
We we almost, like, preemptively avoid conflict by just looking out for each other.
这也是一个重要的地方，我认为这是另一件非常重要的事。
And this is the place too, and I think this is another really important thing.
你知道，当我还是个孩子的时候，我不确定你是否有过这种经历，但当我还是个青少年时，我曾约会过某人，甚至在18岁左右进入过一段相当认真的关系，那时我想：这怎么可能真的永远持续下去呢？
You know, when I was when I was a kid, and I don't I don't know if you've had this experience, but when I was a kid, I remember being like a teenager and dating somebody and and maybe even being in like a pretty serious relationship at like 18 and thinking, how could this possibly like, how could this possibly last forever?
我怎么可能知道，十年后我不会感到无聊，或者他们不会感到无聊呢？
Like, how do I possibly know I won't get bored in ten years or they won't get bored?
嗯，我现在确实喜欢他们。
Like, sure, I like them now.
而且我们现在都挺好，但终究事情还是会出问题的。
And like, we're all great now, but like inevitably, things have to fall apart.
你怎么能确定自己不会改变主意呢？
Like how could you know you're not going to change your mind?
我年轻的时候真的为此纠结了很久，想着：你怎么会知道呢？但那是因为我从未经历过权力斗争阶段之后的状态，也没进入过更深层的关系。
And I remember really grappling with that a lot when I was younger, and thinking like, how would you know, but it's because I'd never been out of a power struggle stage or in anything beyond the power struggle.
当你走出权力斗争阶段，进入节奏阶段时，你会发现自己一直在培育某种东西，你如此用心地经营这段关系，也得到了对方的关爱，你们共同建立起了如此深厚而有意义的联结，以至于现在觉得‘可能会厌倦’或‘对方会厌倦你’这种想法显得很肤浅。
And one of the things that happens when you leave the power struggle and you get into the rhythm is it's like, you've just nurtured something, you've just like cared so much for something, you've just cared for this relationship, and you've been cared for, and you've like developed something so deep and meaningful that now this idea that you could just get bored of it, or that they could get bored of you or these feel like superficial ideas.
觉得这种想法很荒谬，正是因为你们付出了努力，投入了时间，始终如一地参与其中，见证了彼此的成长、进步和深度。
Like it feels silly to think that and and it's because you put the work in and when we put the work into something and we devote to it and we show up and and there's all of this growth and progress and depth.
当然，你不会想去破坏它。
Of course, you don't wanna sabotage it
或者只是
or just
改变主意。
change your mind.
有趣的是，节奏阶段在权力斗争之后实际上持续时间很短。
The rhythm stage, interestingly enough, actually is quite short lived after the power struggle.
所以通常在权力斗争之后，你知道，权力斗争可能持续一辈子，人们甚至可能在婚姻中度过数十年。
So usually after the power struggle, we have that that, you know, the power struggle can last forever, people can actually stay married for decades.
他们就只是生活在权力斗争中，直到死亡。
They'll just like live and die in the power struggle.
这听起来太糟糕了。
That sounds awful.
是啊，千万别让我陷入那种境地。
Yeah, do not let that find me.
但如果我们真的走出来了，节奏阶段也很短暂。
And then, and then if we do make it out though, the rhythm stages is short.
通常再过六个月左右，有时甚至只有三个月，我们就会进入奉献阶段。
It's usually another six months or so, sometimes even three months before we move into the devotion stage.
而承诺阶段是我们开始真正迈向长期承诺的阶段。
And the devotion stage is where we start to really move into long term commitments.
我们开始考虑婚姻、孩子，甚至可能一起创业。
We start thinking about like, okay, marriage and children, maybe even like building a business together.
这些都是非常长远的承诺。
These really like long, long term commitments.
因为你知道，决定要孩子是一项贯穿你余生的终身承诺，对吧？
Because, you know, you can get to a space where it's like that there's a have kids, it's a lifelong commitment for the rest of your life, right?
所以在承诺阶段，我们会感受到自己进入了这种节奏。
So you have this space and in the commitment stage, you'll see that we feel that we're in this rhythm.
我们正从节奏阶段走出来。
We're coming out of the rhythm stage.
我们知道如何应对困难的事情。
We know how to navigate hard things.
我们彼此信任，能够一起度过难关。
There's a trust in each other that we can move through hard things together.
这种安全感让人开始真正兴奋地规划未来，做出更大的决定。
And there's security in that that then allows people to start really getting excited to plan for the future and to make bigger moves.
是的。
Yeah.
而我们就处在这种真正的奉献阶段。
And that's where we're in that real devotion stage.
在这个阶段，双方都会彼此奉献。
Both people will be mutually devoted in this stage.
这就是你获得互惠的地方。
That's where you get like reciprocity.
双方都对彼此的信任与和谐抱有一种神圣的信念。
Both people know they have this sort of sacred belief in the trust and harmony together.
现在人们会感到：好吧，我们已经拥有了这一切。
And that's a space that now people are like, okay, we've got this.
我知道这个人是对的。
I know this is the right person.
我能想象自己和这个人共度一生，长久相伴。
I can see myself building a whole life with this person for the long haul.
而这自然就是进入永恒阶段的前提。
And that's really the prerequisite then of course to the everlasting stage.
好的。
Okay.
在我们讨论永恒阶段之前，我想就你刚才说的几个点多问几句，再在这个话题上多停留一会儿。
Before we talk about everlasting stage, a couple of things I wanna ask you about slash stick around in this space for a bit.
我觉得你提到的这一点非常有趣：人们试图跳过权力斗争阶段或节奏阶段，直接从权力斗争阶段进入奉献阶段。
I find it so interesting what you said by people trying to move from the power struggle phase into the devotion stage without moving either through the power struggle stage or the rhythm stage.
我见过这种情况。
This is I have seen this.
人们总是争吵不断，问题重重，却说：‘我们搬去一起住吧。’
People are, like, fighting, having terrible issues, and they're like, let's move in together.
我们生个孩子吧。
Let's have a baby.
我觉得，如果现在就这么难了，等你面临额外的经济压力，还要照顾一个活生生的生命——比如一个婴儿的时候，情况会变得多么艰难啊。
And I'm like, if you if this is hard now, imagine how much harder it's gonna be when you have find additional financial pressures, when you have a living creature that you have to take care of, like a baby.
我只是觉得，有了这些额外的困扰，事情真的很难应对。
I just feel like it just is so difficult to navigate with those, like, additional struggles.
说到伴侣，我正在开电话会议。
Speaking of partners, I'm just on a call.
等等。
Wait.
你可以承诺。
You can promise.
嘿。
Hey.
嗨。
Hi.
让我回到我刚才说的话题。
Let me get back to what I was saying.
我的意思是，如果你觉得现在的生活已经很难了，当你每天都要和对方相处，却还没学会如何处理矛盾，尤其是你们同居或一起养孩子的时候，情况只会变得更糟、更艰难。
Like, yeah, if you think that if you think things are hard now, like, you have additional financial pressure, when you see each other every single day and you haven't learned how to fight yet because you live together or have a baby together, like, it's going to get so much worse and so much harder.
百分之百同意。
100%.
说实话，你刚才说的正是最真实的一点。
And honestly, exactly what you said is, like, one of the truest things.
我见过太多人陷入权力斗争，却不知道该如何应对。
So so many times I would see people stuck in the power struggle, don't know how to navigate it.
他们在一起几年后，就会说：好吧。
They're couple years in, and they they go, okay.
我们生个孩子吧。
Let's have a baby.
老实说，这几乎就像是试图在需要脆弱感的事情上强加一种新鲜感。
And and honestly, it's almost like trying to put a a sense of novelty on something that requires vulnerability.
就像是：我们一起来做件大事吧。
It's like, let's do a new big thing together.
我见过无数次，说实话，很多夫妻来的时候，因为他们显然之前一直经营着一家繁忙的诊所
And I would see countless, countless times, quite honestly, couples who would come in and they had, know, because they obviously ran a busy practice back
很多年了
in the day for quite a while
人们进来就说：泰兹，我们来接受咨询了。
and people would come in and they'd say, Taiz, we're here to do counseling.
我们分手了。
We've broken up.
我们有了孩子，而且很明显，你们已经进入了关系中的权力斗争阶段好几年了。
We had a baby and, you know, we are a couple years into clearly what was the power struggle.
他们生孩子是希望这能拯救一切，结果却反而击垮了他们，彻底分开了。
And they had a baby hoping it would be the save all and instead it broke them down, right, and broke them up.
当然，如果你学会所需的工具和权力循环阶段，那时还是可以修复这些问题的。
And so you can repair those things at that point for sure, by learning the tools and the power circle stage that you need to.
但很多时候，人们一方面根本不知道关系有不同的阶段，另一方面又以为只要增加一些新活动就能解决问题，而不是真正去应对核心矛盾。
But so often people, A, have no idea that there's different stages of relationships and B, think that they're going to solve it by just adding new things to do instead of actually navigating the core problems.
所以，是的，我完全同意这一点。
And so, yeah, I just absolutely could not agree more with that.
是的。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
在我们讨论最后一个阶段——永恒阶段之前，我们再休息一小会儿。
We're gonna take one more short break before we talk about the final stage, the everlasting stage.
请继续关注我们。
So stay with us.
我们马上回来。
We'll be right back.
我是调查记者梅丽莎·耶尔辛。
I'm investigative journalist Melissa Jeltsin.
我的新播客《纳什维尔发生了什么》讲述了某家辅助生殖诊所的灾难性崩溃，以及患者们在随之而来的混乱中团结起来的故事。
My new podcast, What Happened in Nashville, tells the story of an IVF clinic's catastrophic collapse and the patients who banded together in the chaos that followed.
我们有一些突发新闻要告诉你们。
We have some breaking news to tell you about.
田纳西州总检察长正在起诉一位纳什维尔的医生。
Tennessee's attorney general is suing a Nashville doctor.
2024年4月，一家纳什维尔的生育诊所一夜之间关闭，超过一千个冷冻胚胎被锁在门内。
In April 2024, a fertility clinic in Nashville shut down overnight, and trapped behind locked doors were more than a thousand frozen embryos.
我当时吓坏了。
I was terrified.
在
Out of
在我们整个经历中，那是最糟糕的时刻。
all of our journey, that was the worst moment ever.
那时我根本没有意识到接下来会爆发怎样的争斗。
At that point, it didn't occur to me what fight was gonna come to follow.
但这个故事不仅仅关乎几个家庭的未来。
But this story isn't just about a few families' futures.
这关乎现代辅助生育服务的承诺是否真的值得信赖。
It's about whether the promise of modern fertility care can be trusted at all.
我再怎么抗争都没用。
It doesn't matter how much I fight.
我再怎么为这一切哭泣都没用。
Doesn't matter how much I cry over all of this.
我们获得再多正义也没用。
It doesn't matter how much justice we get.
这些都无法让我怀孕。
None of it's gonna get me pregnant.
请在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或您收听播客的任何平台收听纳什维尔发生的事。
Listen to what happened in Nashville on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
嗨，凯尔。
Hi, Kyle.
你能起草一份简单的商业计划书吗？就一页，用 Google 文档，然后把链接发给我？
Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan, just one page, as a Google Doc and send me the link?
谢谢。
Thanks.
嘿。
Hey.
刚给你画好了那份简短的一页商业计划。
Just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you.
这是链接。
Here's the link.
但根本没有链接。
But there was no link.
也没有商业计划。
There was no business plan.
这不是他的错。
It's not his fault.
我还没来得及给凯尔编程实现这个功能。
I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet.
我的名字是埃文·拉蒂夫。
My name is Evan Ratliff.
在听了OpenAI首席执行官萨姆·阿尔特曼说的很多类似内容后，我决定创建我的AI联合创始人凯尔。
I decided to create Kyle, my AI cofounder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO Sam Altman.
有一个赌局，赌第一年会出现一家由一个人创立的十亿美元公司，
There's this betting pool for the first year that there's a one person billion dollar company,
如果没有AI，这将是难以想象的，但现在
which would have been, like, unimaginable without AI, and now
这种情况一定会发生。
it will happen.
我开始思考，我能否成为那个人？
I got to thinking, could I be that one person?
我之前曾为我获奖的播客《壳牌游戏》制作过AI代理。
I'd made AI agents before for my award winning podcast, Shell Game.
在《壳牌游戏》这一季中，我正试图用虚假的人来打造一家拥有真实产品的真正公司。
This season on Shell Game, I'm I'm trying to build a real company with a real product run by fake people.
哦，嗨，埃文。
Oh, hey, Evan.
很高兴你加入我们。
Good to have you join us.
我找到了一些关于AI代理在中小型企业中采用率的有趣数据。
I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents and small to medium businesses.
在iHeartRadio应用或你收听播客的任何平台收听《Shell Game》。
Listen to Shell Game on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
嗨。
Hi.
这里是幸福实验室的洛里·桑托斯医生。
Doctor Lori Santos from the Happiness Lab here.
这是给予的季节，因此我的播客与GiveDirectly合作，这是一家向极端贫困人口提供所需现金的非营利组织。
It's the season of giving, which is why my podcast is partnering with GiveDirectly, a nonprofit that provides people in extreme poverty with the cash they need.
今年，我们参与了‘播客对抗贫困’活动。
This year, we're taking part in the Pods Fight Poverty campaign.
这不仅仅是幸福实验室的事。
And it's not just the Happiness Lab.
我一些最喜欢的播客主持人也在参与。
Some of my favorite podcasters are also taking part.
比如来自《专注人生》的杰·沙蒂，来自《十分快乐》的丹·哈里斯，来自《上帝如何运作》的戴夫·迪斯特诺，还有更多。
Think Jay Shetty from On Purpose, Dan Harris from ten percent Happier, and Dave Disteno from How God Works and more.
我们今年的目标是筹集100万美元，这将帮助卢旺达700多个生活在极端贫困中的家庭。
Our goal this year is to raise $1,000,000, which will help over 700 families in Rwanda living in extreme poverty.
以下是具体运作方式。
Here's how it works.
您向GiveDirectly捐款，他们会将这笔现金直接交给有需要的家庭。
You donate to give directly, and they put that cash directly into the hands of families in need.
因为这些家庭最清楚自己需要什么，无论是购买牲畜来肥沃农田、支付学费，还是创办小生意。
Because those families know best what they need, whether it's buying livestock to fertilize their farm, paying school fees, or starting a small business.
有了这样的支持，家庭可以投资未来，建立持久的改变。
With that support, families can invest in their future and build lasting change.
所以，请加入我和你喜爱的播客主持人，一起参与“播客抗击贫困”活动。
So join me and your favorite podcasters in the Pods Fight Poverty campaign.
前往 givedirectly.org/happinesslab 了解更多信息并做出捐赠。
Head to givedirectly.org/happinesslab to learn more and make a contribution.
如果你是首次捐赠者，Giving Multiplier 还将匹配你的捐赠金额。
And if you're a first time donor, Giving Multiplier will even match your gift.
捐赠请访问 givedirectly.org/happinesslab。
That's givedirectly.org/happinesslab to donate.
你好。
Hi.
我是普里扬卡·瓦利医生。
I'm doctor Priyanka Wally.
我是哈里昆多沃格鲁。
And I'm Harikundovoglu.
在我们的新播客《健康那些事》中，我们将为你解开各种健康问题的谜团。
On our new podcast, Health Stuff, we demystify your burning health questions.
你会听到我们对自己健康问题的坦诚分享。
You'll hear us being completely honest about our own health.
我现在谈的是非常严肃的事情，你却在笑我。
I'm talking about very serious stuff right now, and you're laughing at me.
你还会听到那些希望让医疗更有人情味的专家们坦诚的建议和个人故事。
And you'll hear candid advice and personal stories from experts who wanna make health care more human.
有时候，你的作用是倾听、理解、共情，也许为他们正在经历的事情提供一种认知或命名。
Sometimes you're there to listen, to understand, to empathize, maybe to give them an understanding or a name for what's going on.
这种理解对人们帮助很大，让他们知道这并不是只存在于他们的想象中。
That helps people a lot, understanding that it's not just in their head.
实际上应用于你的日常生活中。
Actually use in your day to day life.
从何时使用或避免人工照明，到如何睡得更好。
From when to utilize and avoid artificial light to how to sleep better.
关于膳食纤维以及如何更顺畅排便的所有你需要知道的事情。
Everything you need to know about fiber and how to poop better.
如何减轻时差的影响，以及在困境中保持希望。
How to minimize the effects of jet lag and how to stay hopeful in times of distress.
我们人类，最想要的只是连接。
We human beings, all we want is connection.
我们只是想彼此相连。
We just wanna connect with each other.
我们希望让健康变得不那么令人困惑，甚至带点乐趣。
We wanna make health less confusing and maybe even a little fun.
在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或你收听播客的任何平台找到健康相关内容。
Find health stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
你好。
Hi.
我是拉迪·德夫卢卡，我是《一次很好的哭泣》播客的主持人。
I'm Radhi Devlukha, and I am the host of A Really Good Cry podcast.
本周，我邀请到了安娜·伦克尔，她也被称为‘糟糕童年仙子’，是一位创作者、导师和引导者，帮助人们疗愈来自不安全或混乱童年的持久情感创伤。
This week, I am joined by Anna Runkle, also known as the crappy childhood fairy, a creator, teacher, and guide helping people heal from the lasting emotional wounds of unsafe or chaotic childhoods.
我们谈论了小时候经历的事情如何仍在影响我们的成年生活，体现在我们的关系、反应，甚至体现在我们对自己身体的感受上。
We talk about how the things we went through when we were younger can still show up in our adult lives, in our relationships, our reactions, even in the way we feel in our own bodies.
安娜敞开心扉讲述了她自己的故事，她是如何察觉到自己陷入的模式，以及她是如何慢慢教会自己的身体：现在安全了。
And Anna opens up about her own story, what helped her notice the patterns she was stuck in, and how she slowly started teaching her body it is safe now.
当我遭到袭击时，那完全是随机的，四个男人从车里冲出来，开始殴打我，他们打碎了我的下巴和牙齿，我失去了意识。
So when I got attacked, it was very random, four guys jumped out of a car and just started beating me And and my they broke my jaw and my teeth, I was unconscious.
然后我醒了过来，大喊起来。
Then I woke up and I screamed.
我大喊，因为尽管我不知道自己是谁，也不清楚身在何处，但我的内心深处有个声音在说：等等，别放弃。
And I screamed because even though I didn't know who I was or where I was, something in me was just like, hold on, wait.
他们可能会杀了我，但我不会让这种事情发生。
They could kill me and I'm not going to let that happen.
我不会让这种事情发生。
I'm not going to let that happen.
我会挺过这一关。
I'm going to get through this.
我真的做到了。
And I did.
收听《A Really Good Cry》在
Listen to A Really Good Cry on
iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或你收听播客的任何平台。
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
好的。
Okay.
所以你现在处于痴迷阶段。
So you're at the devotion stage.
你知道，你非常开心。
You know, you're very happy.
你已经下定决心。
You're committed.
也许你已经订婚了，你知道，你觉得自己找到了永远的那个人。
Maybe you're engaged in a you know, you're engaged and you feel like this is the one forever.
还有另一个阶段，叫做永恒阶段。
There is another stage, which is the everlasting stage.
我想问你的是，所有处于奉献阶段的人都能进入永恒阶段吗？还是说，为什么有些人即使在奉献阶段，仍然会选择分手或遭遇分手？
And my question for you is, does everyone from the devotion stage get to the everlasting stage, or why would people in the devotion stage still choose to break up or have a breakup occur to them before they get to everlasting?
真是个好问题。
Such a good question.
所以我认为，我见过的唯一一个在奉献阶段分手的主要原因，是某种极其痛苦的外部事件，这种事件会引发其中一方或双方的身份危机，从而导致他们所建立的一切几乎被摧毁。
So I would say the only major reason that I've ever seen people break up once in the devotion stage is because of some sort of external event that's extremely painful that essentially causes an identity crisis in one or both people, and therefore everything they built sort of gets destroyed.
这听起来可能很戏剧化、很残酷，但说实话，一旦进入奉献阶段，几乎每个人最终都会进入永恒阶段。
So it sounds very dramatic and harsh, but honestly, once you're at the devotion stage, almost every person ends up in the everlasting stage.
他们会开始付诸行动。
They start actioning these things out.
但比如说，举个例子，我见过一些令人心酸的故事——这些年里，我见过一些人明明处于奉献阶段，最后却分手了。
But let's say for example that one person, and I'll tell a story, there's some sad ones, you know, of people who I saw over the years who were in the devotion stage and then broke up.
你知道，在其中一个案例中，这算是比较不那么悲伤的了：有一个人在一年内失去了双亲，对吧？
You know, in one particular case, this is one of the less sad ones, but in one particular case, one person lost both of their parents in a year, right?
他们的
Both their
父母？那个算是比较不那么悲伤的？
parents That's the less sad one?
那个算是比较不那么悲伤的。
That's the less sad one.
天哪！
Oh my god!
那是一个很悲惨的案例。
That's a tragic one.
我知道，抱歉。
I know, sorry.
我本该提前做个触发警告的，因为我是说
I should have said like a trigger warning ahead of time because I'm But
真的，后来那个人陷入了深深的抑郁，最终陷入了一种无法为这段关系付出的状态。
truly like, know, and what happened is that person then spiraled into this really deep depression, And then they ended up in a space where they weren't showing up for the relationship.
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