为什么大多数自助方法无效，而真正有效的是什么 - 特雷弗·布莱克

欢迎收听《坚韧心智》播客。本期节目，您将聆听特雷弗·布莱克主讲的《为何大多数自助方法无效，而真正有效的是什么》。本集也提供视频版本，点击节目简介中的链接即可在YouTube上观看。敬请欣赏。

Welcome to the Resilient Mind Podcast. In this episode, you will be listening to Why most self help doesn't work and what actually does, with Trevor Blake. This episode is also available in video. Watch it on YouTube by clicking the link in the show notes. Enjoy.

只要相信，一切皆有可能。放手去做吧。对我而言，成功就是享受乐趣，自由地生活，拥有生活的自由。不在于数字，而在于独立。去寻找那份独立。

Everything's possible if you just believe. Just go for it. For me, success is having fun, living life free, the freedom of life. It's not the number, it's the independence. Find the independence.

数字自然会随之而来。

The number will follow.

特雷弗·布莱克是一位成功的企业家，多次创业退出总额超过6亿美元，现在可能已达10亿美元。他今天将与我们分享他的视角和思维模式，如何培养企业家精神，甚至可能发展财务韧性。

Trevor Blake, who is a successful entrepreneur with multiple exit, totaling over 600,000,000, probably a billion dollars now, who's here to be share with us his perspective, his mindset to be able to have that entrepreneurship spirit, be able to develop maybe even financial resilience.

我不相信必须反复尝试、失败、再尝试、再失败。我相信用科学方法解决问题，执行，再解决问题，再执行。不断循环这个过程。

I don't believe in having to try and fail and try and fail and try and fail. I believe in using science to figure it out, do it. Figure it out, do it. Figure it out, do it.

我读过最具影响力的书籍之一，是拿破仑·希尔的《思考致富》。

One of the books that I've read that has been very influential is the book by Napoleon Hill, Think Grow Rich.

我还没见过真正因阅读《思考致富》而改变人生的人。拿破仑·希尔创办过25家公司都以失败告终。我猜你没想到我会这么说，从你的眼神我看得出来。

I don't think I've met anybody who's read Think and Grow Rich and actually changed their lives. Napoleon Hill started and failed at 25 companies. I don't think you're expecting me to say this. I can see in your eyes.

在座的各位可能和我有同样的反应——不。今天，我非常激动能邀请到特雷弗·布莱克，他是一位成功的企业家，经历过多次企业退出，我相信现在是四次，总共有超过五次退出。哇。五次退出总计超过6亿，现在可能已达10亿美元。

Some of the people hearing are probably having the same reaction I'm having. No. Today, I am super excited to be joined by Trevor Blake, who is a successful entrepreneur with multiple exits, I believe four exits now, totaling over six five exits. Wow. Five exits totaling over 600,000,000, probably a billion dollars now.

他今天来与我们分享他的视角和思维方式，这些使他不仅积累了财富，还获得了商业上的成功知识，以及我们如何学习培养坚韧的心态，甚至发展出企业家精神，或许还能建立财务韧性。在当前经济动荡的背景下，了解哪些方法有效、哪些可能无效，获取这样的视角将至关重要。特雷弗，今天能有你加入我们，我无比兴奋。

Who's here to share with us his perspective, his mindset that has allowed him to gain wealth, only of knowledge, but of success in business, and how we might learn to be able to develop not only a resilient mind, but to be able to have that entrepreneurship spirit, be able to develop maybe even financial resilience. Because in today's economy, of course, we know with the turmoil that's happening, getting this perspective, knowing what worked, what might not work is going to be very important. So Trevor, I am super excited to have you with us today.

谢谢，辛巴。我非常感激。我要向你的观众道歉，我穿得这么正式。我这里今晚有个正式场合，我必须盛装出席，我刚回来。所以我平时不戴领结的。

Thank you, Simba. I appreciate it so much. I apologize to your audience that I'm so dressed up. It's a formal night here where I am, and I was required to dress up to go out, and I just got back. So I don't normally wear a bow tie.

我是个更随意的人。但不管怎样，我为此道歉。也许我现在正符合这个角色吧，我也不知道。或许确实如此。

I'm a much more casual guy. But anyway, so I apologize. Maybe I fit the role right now. I don't know. Maybe I do.

好吧，为了让观众觉得你是特意为我们打扮的，我们就假装是这样吧。不。

Well, for the audience, we'll assume it was, you know, just for us, so we feel No.

不。不。我可以诚实地告诉大家，不是的。不。不。

No. No. Can honestly be honest and tell everybody, no. No. No.

不。了解我的人都知道。但打扮一下确实不错，真的很好。我...我喜欢这样。

No. Know who I am. But it is nice to dress up. It's really nice to dress up. I I like it.

我的妻子杰西盛装打扮，看起来美极了。她特意出门，想给我留出这里的独处时间和空间。她穿着那条惊艳的长裙出门，真是美不胜收。

And Jess, my wife, got dressed up. She looks phenomenal. And she's gone out because she wanted to give me time and space here. So she's gone out in this amazing gown. So it's beautiful.

以不同的方式、更高层次的方式生活是件美妙的事。这感觉真的很棒。因为我从小家境贫寒，童年时根本不可能这样穿着打扮，但如今成年后，我既能这样盛装出席，又能保持童心。

It's lovely to it's lovely to live life in a different way, in a high way. So it's really nice. Because I grew up really poor, so there's no way that I would dress like this when I was a kid, but now I can dress up like this as an adult and behave like a kid.

听起来太精彩了。那我们就从这里开始吧。请简单聊聊你的成长经历。我知道你母亲的故事是你过去经历中影响世界观形成的重要事件。嗯。

Sounds amazing. And so let's get started there. Tell us a little bit about how you grew up. I am aware that one of the events that happened in your past around like your perspective that shapes how you see the world was also the story of your mother. Mhmm.

请谈谈你的成长背景，以及是什么塑造了如今成功的你。

So tell us a little bit about your background and how you grew up and what has shaped you to be the successful individual you are right now.

问题是人们总在评判成功，对吧？他们说成功意味着什么。但我不这么看待人生。对我而言，成功就是享受乐趣、自由自在地生活——生命的自由。让我这么说吧，生命的自由才是我追求的全部。

Well, the the thing is people judge success, right, and they say success means something. I don't think of life that way. For me, success is having fun, living life free, the the the freedom of life. Let me put this down a little bit. So the freedom of life is, for me, what it's all about.

我人生中取得的一切成就都归功于母亲。她是位了不起的女性，在我七岁时被诊断只剩六个月生命。我曾目睹她与她信仰的神明对话——她望着窗外对神明说：'我的生死由我决定，而非你'。而她确实做到了。

Everything I've I've achieved in my life is down to my mom. She was this incredible human being who was given six months to live when I was only seven years old. And I saw her talk to her version of God because she believed in her version of God. And I saw her look out the window and talk to God and say, I'll decide when I die, not you. And she did.

所以她活过了我的整个成长期。我想她去世时我大概二十一岁。那段经历令人难以置信，我有幸亲眼见证并感受了这一切。

So she lived my whole life. And and and so I was twenty twenty one, I think, when she died. And that was incredible. So I got to see that. I got to experience it.

因此，当我在商界、企业界或生活中遇到困境，感到不知所措时，我会想起那段经历。那种坚韧的精神让我自问：母亲会怎么做？她一定会说‘我绝不放弃’，于是我也选择坚持。这就像我人生中的灯塔，我非常幸运，无比幸运。

And so when I've been in business or, you know, corporate world or doing whatever I do in life and I hit a wall and I say, oh god, I don't know how to cope, I remember that. And I remember that spirit, and I think, oh, what would my mom do? And she would say, I won't give up, and so I won't give up. And then and it's so that that's been my, like, lighthouse my whole life, and I'm very lucky. Very, very lucky.

我母亲介绍我认识了第一任妻子，她于2020年2月去世。我们共同度过了三十八年。你知道，这就是人生，生死无常。临终前她对我说：‘十五个月后你会遇到一个完全不同的人，开启全新生活。’后来确实如此，我现在再婚了。

So my mom introduced me to my first wife who died in 02/2020. We've been together thirty eight years. And, you know, it's it's life, life and death. And then, my wife told me before she died that you're gonna meet someone fifteen months from now, totally different psyche, and you're gonna have a whole new life. And I did, and we're married again.

所以我现在结婚三年。之前有三十八年的婚姻，之后独处十五个月，如今再婚三年。我觉得这很特别，世上很少有人能有这种经历，我感到无比幸运。

So I'm three years married. So I was thirty eight years married. Now I'm fifteen fifteen months alone and three years married. And I think that's very special. And I don't think many people in this world get to have that experience, and I feel very, very blessed.

这就是我想分享的——只要相信，万事皆有可能。勇敢去追求吧，一切都有可能。

And that's what I wanna share. I wanna tell people that everything's possible if you just believe it. Just go for it. Everything's possible.

你谈到母亲教导你永不放弃的课题让我深受启发。因为很多人都在面对失败或困境时选择放弃。根据你五次成功退出的经历——这些是你创办的全部公司吗？还是之前有过未成功的尝试，但你坚持突破最终获得这些成果？

And I love the lesson that you talked about in terms of your mom teaching you never to give up. Because I think that's one of the things that a lot of us struggle with in which when we're going through life, we tend to maybe face a failure, face a difficulty, and then we end up giving up. And so in your own experience and maybe like in some of the companies, because now five exits, how has that shaped how you've applied it in your companies where these only the five companies that you started or had you started some companies prior that were not successful and you're able to push through to be able to get to that to those exits?

这是个非常深刻的问题。很多人说失败是成功之母，但我完全不认同这种观点。我是物理学家出身，

That is a really great question, a deep question, and no. So I think a lot of people teach that you have to fail in order to succeed. I don't believe in that at all. I don't believe that one. I'm a physicist.

作为科学家，我用科学方法指导实践。我创办过七家公司，已出售五家，目前还持有两家。

I'm a scientist. So I use science in order to do what I do. So so I have had seven companies. I have sold five. I have two left.

在我当前的人生旅途中，我刚卖掉了两样东西中的一样。所以现在只剩一个了。嗯，即将到来。我不相信必须反复尝试、失败、再尝试、再失败。我相信运用科学方法来解决问题，然后付诸实践。

And on this journey that I'm on right now, I just sold one of the two. So I have one left Mhmm. Coming up. So I don't believe in having to try and fail and try and fail and try and fail. I believe in using science to figure it out, do it.

分析问题，解决问题。分析问题，解决问题。这基本上就是我的行事方式。我认为人们对成功的理解有时有些偏差，因为他们把成功看作一个数字、目标或是某个要达到的地位。但我不这么想，对我来说成功意味着自由。

Figure it out, do it. Figure it out, do it. And, and that's what we that's that's kinda what I do. So people's understanding of success, I think, is, a little bit mistaken sometimes because people think of success as a number or an aim or a, you know, a station, somewhere to get to, and I don't think that way. I think success for me is freedom.

能够独立自主。通过创立公司又出售公司的过程，这些企业深刻改变了人们的生活。我深感荣幸，这确实是莫大的荣耀。但这一切并非我独自实现的，不是我单凭己力达成的。

So, to to be independent. And so through all of those, building the companies and selling of the companies, the companies the companies have made a huge impact in people's lives. I have been honored, and it has been an absolute honor. I have not achieved any of it. I haven't made it happen.

我没有取得所谓的成功。我没有一步步攀爬成功的阶梯。我只是足够幸运，蒙受眷顾，当有人来对我说'这个问题需要解决，特雷弗你很聪明对吧？'

I haven't succeeded. I haven't I haven't been on the rung of a ladder or anything like that. I I have been lucky enough, very blessed, for someone to come to me and say, this needs fixing. And, Trevor, you're smart. Right?

我确实挺聪明的，我是个物理学家。'特雷弗你很聪明，解决它吧。'我说：'好的。'

I am quite smart. I'm a physicist. Trevor, you're smart. Fix it. I said, Okay.

我会解决的。于是我解决了问题。在解决问题的过程中，这是件美妙的事，纯粹的美好。当最终解决问题并改变人们生活时，我总会想：我母亲会为此骄傲的。

I'll fix it. So I fixed it. And and in fixing it, it's a beautiful thing. It's just a beautiful thing. And at the end of fixing something and making a difference in people's lives, you come out I come out of it thinking, my mom would be proud.

我母亲一定会非常骄傲。她会说：'做得好。干得漂亮。为你高兴。不过，别太得意。'

My mom would my mom would be really proud. My mom would say, well done. Well done. Good for you. And, don't get too big.

别太自以为是。你知道吗？就是要脚踏实地，但做得不错。对我来说最重要的是我们解决问题，记住我们的根，记住是谁教会了我们那些能让一切成真的东西，就我而言，从《三个简单步骤》和trevorgblake.com网站来看，基本上都是我妈妈的教诲。我能给任何人的建议就是，别追随我，别听我的，但要听我妈妈的。

Don't get too big for your britches. You know? Like, keep your feet on the ground, but well done. And I think that's for me the most important thing is that we fix stuff and we remember our roots and we remember who taught us all the things that make that can make it happen, which in my case, from Three Simple Steps and and trevorgblake.com is, you know, my mom's teaching, basically. And that and that's all I have to offer to anybody is like, don't follow me, don't listen to me, but listen to my mom.

这太美好了。你认为人们所谓的‘成功’可能遇到的障碍之一，是不是因为他们对成功的定义不同，或者他们的成功定义与生活并不真正契合，因此可能缺乏追求的动力，甚至实现后仍感觉有所缺失？

That is beautiful. And do you think that one of the potential barriers to quote unquote success is that people have defined it differently or their definition of success is not something that might actually align with their life, hence maybe they may not be motivated to go for it or maybe once even they've accomplished it, they still feel like something's missing.

是的，我称之为平衡的成功。我曾经也有那种感觉，认为成功就是到达某个地方，取得成就，比如买辆宝马什么的。我以为那就是成功的标志。但后来我突然意识到，其实并非如此。

Yeah, so I call it success with balance, So for me, and I used to feel that way and I was that way. So I I used to think success was getting somewhere, like achieving something and, you know, buying a BMW or something. I used to think that that would be that would be me. That would be me made it and all the rest of it. And then I I suddenly realized that actually it's not that.

成功更像是一种自由，是能够随心所欲地做你想做的事，而且这并不需要很多钱。所以我经常收到人们发来的邮件，问：‘我想要财务自由，需要多少钱？’

It's kind of a freedom. It's the ability to do what you want, when you want, in any way you want, and it doesn't take a lot of money to do that. So I I find so I get a lot of emails from people saying, okay. I I want financial independence. What's the number?

我告诉他们，关键不是数字，而是自由本身。先找到自由，数字自然会跟上。对我来说，这完全是不同的概念。

And I say, it's not the number. It's the independence. Find the independence. The number will follow. And so for me, it's a it's a it's a it's a totally different concept.

我试图通过Trevor Delay的转型经历来扭转这种观念，展示如果你先找到自由——自由意味着，如果没有阻碍，没有人能限制你，没有人能说不，你想要什么？然后需要什么来实现它？通常人们会说，其实不需要那么多钱，我以为自己想成为亿万富翁，但实际上几十万就够了。

Like, it's it's it I so I try to flip it with, the transformation experience in Trevor Delay from I try to I try to show that if you find the independence first, and the independence means, okay, what do you want for you? Mhmm. If there are no impediments, no one can restrict anything, no one can say no, there are no impediments, what do you want for you, And then what does it take to make that happen? And typically, people will say, well, it's actually not that much money. I thought I wanted to be a billionaire, but actually a few 100,000 would be fine.

这样生活就变得更容易实现。我发现从这个角度看问题，比如‘自由对我意味着什么’，能带来一种新的自由感。我经历过这两种状态，拥有过1.3万平方英尺的房子、五车位的车库和阿斯顿马丁等所有那些我们成长过程中追求的愚蠢玩具。

And so it makes life a little bit more it's a little easier to attain. And I find I find looking at it from that perspective, like, okay. What does independence mean for me gives a a new sense of freedom. So I've done both of those things, and and I I've had the 13,000 square foot house with the five car garage and the Aston Martins and all this. I've done all that stupid toy stuff that we do as we grow.

我也曾做过相反的事，那就是放弃一切。然后我发现，答案介于两者之间——我真正想为自己做些什么？什么才是属于我的？每个人的答案都不同，因为有人有孩子，有人有孙辈，有人养狗，诸如此类。我曾经营过一个动物庇护所。

And I've also done the opposite thing, which is give everything away. And, and I find that somewhere in the middle is the answer in that what do I want to do for me? What's my what's my thing? And, it's different for everybody because people have kids, people have grandkids, people have, dogs, whatever it may be. I had an animal sanctuary.

这些事情是否束缚了你，将你困在原地？所以你要找到一个节点，告诉自己：好了，现在我自由了，这就是我定义的自由，无论它意味着什么。然后你为此设定预算，而如今对我们所有人来说，这个预算并不算多。比如，一百万根本不算什么。

Did these things hold you down and hold you in a space? So so you find a place where you say, okay. I'm free now, and this is my free this is my sense of freedom, whatever that means. And then you set a budget on that, and the budget is not that big today for us, for all of us. Like, a million is nothing.

一千万不算什么，三千万也不算。所以你可能会说：好吧，我需要150万来实现这个精彩人生。这并非巨款，而且很容易获得。

10,000,000 is nothing. 30,000,000 is nothing. So you might say, okay. I need 1,500,000.0 to make this amazing life happen. That's not a lot of money, and it's easy to get.

这正是我想传授的理念。

And that's what I'm trying to teach.

我很认同这点，因为我读过一本极具影响力的书——拿破仑·希尔的《思考致富》。这本书对我和许多人都影响深远，里面阐述了关于如何成功、如何转变思维以创造富足人生的诸多观点。其中一个工具就是明确你想要的具体金额，以及你愿意为此付出的行动。但你的视角听起来更全面些，对吗？

And I love that because one of the books that I've read that has been very influential, for myself and I know for a lot of people is the book by Napoleon Hill, Think and Grow Rich. And there's a lot of ideas that are in that book about how to be successful, how to change your thinking so you can build a life of riches. And one of the tools they have is to be very specific about the amount that you want and what you're willing to do to get it. But your perspective sounds a little bit more comprehensive. Right?

首先构想你想要的生活，再计算出实现这种生活方式所需的金额。这样理解准确吗？

First, think about the life that you want, then figure out that amount of money that's required to meet that lifestyle that you want. Is that an accurate

这是个准确的表述。辛巴，很高兴你提到这个。嗯...《思考致富》和拿破仑·希尔，其实和大众认知有所不同。这本书最初的名字是《为获真谛》，不，等等...

It's it's an it's an accurate statement. I'm glad you brought that up, Simba. Mhmm. Think and Grow Rich and Napoleon Hill, isn't what people think it was. So Think and Grow Rich was originally called, in order to get the noodle, no.

要想拿到好处，就得动动脑筋。你明明知道这点，所以才提起这事，对吧？没错。

In order to get the boo dle, use your noodle. And so you know this. This is why you brought it up. Right? Yeah.

哦，你读过《三步走》。我的书《三个简单步骤》故意解构了拿破仑·希尔的《思考致富》，因为我想向人们证明那根本不是生活的运作方式。我能证明这一点，因为我白手起家取得了成功。而拿破仑·希尔出身贫寒，死时依然穷困潦倒。

Oh, you read Three Steps. So my book, Three Simple Steps, takes Napoleon Hill's book, Think and Go Rich, and tears it apart on purpose because I wanna show people that that's not how life works. And I can prove that's not how life works because I grew up with nothing, and here I am. Napoleon Hill grew with nothing and died with nothing. He died poor.

很多人没意识到这点。他的版权被收购后，那本书卖了七千万册什么的。但我从没见过谁读了《思考致富》后真正改变人生——因为书里根本没有实用方法。拿破仑·希尔创办过25家公司，全都失败了。

And a lot of people don't realize that. And so he got his his rights got bought out, and then he went and sold 70,000,000 copies or whatever. But I don't think I've met anybody who's read Think and Grow Rich and actually changed their lives. I honestly have never met anybody because there's no tools and techniques. So Napoleon Hill, started and failed at 25 companies.

嗯哼。看你的表情很意外吧？但他确实创业25次都失败了。他儿子称他是江湖骗子。

Mhmm. I don't think you're expecting me to say this. I can see in your eyes. But he started and failed at 25 companies. His son called him a charlatan.

他和俄罗斯籍妻子合著了《如何找到并留住灵魂伴侣》，出版当天两人就离婚了。法官大人，我的陈述完毕。虽然不知你为何提起这个，但我很感激。你是个聪明人，非常聪明。

His wife, his Russian wife, and he wrote a book called How to Find Your Soulmate and Keep Your Soulmate, and it got published on the day they got divorced. I rest my case, your honor. So I don't know why you brought this up, but I appreciate it. And you're a smart man. You're very smart.

史上最成功的自助书籍，对想摆脱困境的人恰恰最无用。这正是我研究这个的初衷。作为科学家，我探究事物运作原理，结果发现这是个死在病榻上的骗子。

So probably the most successful self help book of all time is the least helpful to anybody who wants self help to help them move from quicksand to whatever they want. And that's why I got into this in the first place. So I read it. I am a scientist, so I investigate how and why do things work. And I found out that here's a charlatan, died on his on his deathbed.

那个叫沃尔特还是谁来着，买回版权后创立了夜莺康纳公司，靠这个骗子的悲惨人生大发横财——这就是所谓的自助产业，我们都在跟这种东西打交道。

What was his name? Walter, whatever, bought the rights back and then set up Nightingale Conan's, and and then they made a fortune out of it. But out of what? Out of this guy's sad life, that's self help. And that's what we all deal in.

这就是我们日常所探讨的内容，自助与个人发展、人生导师，而我们发现他们中的大多数，绝大多数，自己一生从未取得过任何成功。却要教导别人如何成功。我想表达的是，成功应该是这般模样。对吧？所以这很有趣。

That's what we deal on a daily basis, self help and personal development, life coaches, and we find out that most of them, most, have never achieved any success in their lives. But we'll tell you how to be successful. What I'm trying to do is say, this is what success looks like. Right? So this is fun.

这就是我的生活。这就是我的旅程。这就是我正在经历的冒险——此刻正从哥本哈根飞往赫尔辛基。这就是成功的感觉，我想展示这种感受。因为除非你亲身体验，否则无法真正理解。

This is my life. This is my journey. This is my adventure through and right now, I'm heading from Copenhagen to Helsinki. This is this is what success feels like, and I wanna show what it feels like. Because unless you so as as, unless you feel it, you don't experience it.

因此《思考致富》可能是最糟糕的——很抱歉这么说，女士。如果我冒犯了您或破坏了您的信念体系，《思考致富》堪称自助领域里最华而不实的骗局。嗯。如果您读过我的《三步成师》（纽约时报畅销书），我逐条解构了它——这是有充分理由的。理由在于它并非全无价值，也非全是骗术，而是源于一场误解。

And so think and grow rich was probably the worst and I'm sorry to say this, ma'am. I if I offend you and if if I've broken your your system or whatever, Think and Grow Rich was probably the most snake oil that ever existed in self hope. Mhmm. And if you read Three Simple Steps, which is my book, New York Times bestselling book, I take it apart piece by piece for good reasons. And the good reasons are that it wasn't all bad, and it wasn't all snake oil, but it was a misunderstanding.

拿破仑·希尔与卡内基之间的误解在于：他从未真正面见过卡内基。但全书却建立在虚构的会面上。他从未亲身见过卡内基，只是观察后断言：卡内基通过垂直整合运作商业帝国。

So his misunderstanding so so Napoleon Hill's misunderstanding was with, Carnegie. So he didn't actually meet Carnegie in person ever. But the book is based upon meeting Carnegie, and it never happened. He never met him in person. But what he did was he looked at Carnegie and he said, okay.

卡内基采用垂直整合模式经营公司。希尔误读了其'智囊团'概念——卡内基实际召集的是企业CEO、分销商、制造商、监管者和营销专家组成的高管联盟。这与《思考致富》描述的完全不是同一回事。

Carnegie deals in the world in this particular way, in this vertical integration. So he does his company in vertical integration. And so he said that, you have a mastermind, and he got it wrong. What Carnegie did was he took CEOs of companies, distributor, manufacturer, a regulatory guy, a marketer, and then we took CEOs and put CEOs together. That's a very different, very different concept than is included in, Think and Grow Rich.

所以《思考致富》是我最厌恶的自助书籍，我乐于在《三步成师》中拆解它——您想必知道这点。感谢您特意提起这个争议话题。尽管销量7000万册，但没有人因这本书改变命运——一个都没有。

So Think and Grow Rich is my least favorite self help book, and I love to destroy it in three simple steps, which I do. I think you know this. I think you brought this up on purpose, and I thank you for doing it. It's very controversial because most people will read Think and Grow Rich, and they'll say, I sold 70,000,000. It's gotta be.

看似合理，但世上没有任何人因《思考致富》而改变人生。没有。一个真实的案例都不存在。

It's gonna make sense. But no one's life has changed as a result of Think and Grow Rich. Nobody's. Not one person in the world has ever changed their life as a result of that book. Not one.

我会坚持这一点。我会走上法庭，甚至上诉至最高法院来捍卫这个立场，因为这种情况从未发生过。作为一个孩子，我成长于极度贫困的环境中，比大多数人理解的贫穷还要贫穷得多。

And I will stand by that. I'll go to court. I will go to the Supreme Court and defend that because it just hasn't happened. So I will say, as a kid, I grew up really poor, really, really poor. Poorer than most people understand what poor means.

我阅读了一本又一本的传记。最终我领悟到，这世上有种工作方式，有种处世之道，有种行为准则，还有种态度。

And I read biography after biography after biography. And I figured out that there's a way to work. There's a way to work in the world. There's a way to behave. There's a way there's an attitude.

于是我就效仿CJ·沃克女士和亨利·福特的做法。我想，既然对他们有效，那对我也会有效。这就是我的行动准则——而这些在《思考致富》里只字未提。

And so I just followed what madam CJ Walker did, what Henry Ford did. I just I just said, okay. If they if it worked for them, it's gonna work for me. And that's what I did. And none of that is in Think and Grow Rich.

完全没有。

None of it.

我知道有些听众此刻可能和我产生共鸣。不，因为我长期反复研读那本书，虽然取得了一些成就，但你话语中最打动我的是：我们要质疑固有认知，持续以不同视角思考，不断追问信念，才能持续成长。

And I know some of the people hearing are probably having the same reaction I'm having. No. Because I've read that book and I've read it consistently for a while. And I'd like to say I've gotten some success, but what I love about what you're saying is we want to challenge our assumptions. We want to constantly be thinking differently and questioning the things that we believe so we can continue to grow.

我理解你分享对《思考致富》的见解时，所阐述的成功法则学习过程，与书中内容确实存在差异。

And I know your perspective in terms of sharing your view on Think and Grow Rich and talking about the process that you used to actually be able to learn some of the principles of success were a little bit different from what was covered in that book.

其实《思考致富》成书于19世纪90年代左右，那时是全然不同的世界。那是个基督教主导的时代，书的内容也充满基督教色彩，所以它只契合特定受众的需求，他们当然奉为圭臬。

And Well, so so the the thing about Think I Go Rich was from the late so it's like 1890 or something. It was a different world back then. Right? So it was a very Christian world, and it was it was written in a Christian sense. And so it worked for a certain particular audience, and they loved it.

当然没有改变任何人的生活，因为没有工具和技巧。但他们喜欢它，因为那是一种让人感觉良好的说辞，符合他们当时的人生阶段。但今天这行不通了。我是说，我们生活在一个有电视和播客的世界里。

Didn't change anybody's life, of course, but it they because there's no tools and techniques. But they loved it because it was it was a feel good rhetoric for where they were in that time in life. But it doesn't work today. It doesn't work today. I mean I mean, we live in a world of TV and podcasts.

今天这行不通了。这不是我们的本质和行为方式。我们生活在一个加密货币的世界里。这套方法不再有效，而且从来就没真正有效过。

It doesn't work today. It does it's not who we are and what we do. We live in a world of crypto. It doesn't work anymore. And it never worked then.

这家伙在25家公司都失败了。整整25家。每一次都失败了。这怎么能证明成功？我必须提出质疑：谁能告诉我这本书的价值究竟在哪里？

And this guy failed at 25 companies. 25. He failed at every single one. How is that a demonstration of success? I'm I have to I I have to throw that up and say, can somebody tell me why that book is so valuable?

是的，这个人失败了25次，我父亲也失败了25次。我认为这毫无价值可言。如果冒犯了你和你的听众，我道歉。但我呼吁所有人重新思考，反复思考。

Because Yes. The guy failed 25 times, and my father failed 25 times. I don't think it has any merit whatsoever. And, if this offends you and your audience, I apologize, but I challenge everybody to say rethink, rethink, rethink.

说得好。你在谈论自己作为物理学家的背景，用科学方法验证什么是真正有效的。我知道你出版了两本书，第一本《三步成功法》很受欢迎，讲述了个人成功的三个关键步骤。

Love that. And so you're talking about your background as a physicist using science to actually figure out what works. And so I know you've got a book your book, two books. You've got two books. The first one that is very popular, three simple steps, talking about the three steps individuals should follow for them to be successful.

能否分享一下这些步骤，以及它们与拿破仑·希尔的《思考致富》有何不同？因为后者是广为人知的标杆作品。让听众能理解两者区别，分辨两本书的核心观点差异。

Can you let us know what those steps are and how they differ from Napoleon Hill's Think and Grow Rich? Because I think, again, it's popular, it's well known, it's a benchmark. So for people to be able to start making that connection and differentiating some of the things that were in that book and some of the things that are in your current book.

首先最重要的是心态掌控。我从小就意识到，我总让外界定义我是谁、该如何行事。但这根本行不通——我被霸凌，学业也糟糕。

So the so the first thing is mentality control. So I learned as a young kid that I had allowed the world to tell me who who I am and that I'm supposed to behave a certain way. And it wasn't working. Right? I was getting bullied, and I wasn't doing well at school.

于是我读了所有这些传记，心想，好吧。这些人，他们的思维方式与我不同。他们拥有心态控制能力，能够掌控那些诸如‘我不行、我软弱、我丑陋、我衣衫褴褛’的负面念头，然后重新构建思维，告诉自己：我是人类，我很特别，我是个强大的人。

And so I read all these biographies, and I thought, okay. So all these people, they thought differently to me. And they had mentality control, so they were able to control so they would have thoughts like I had, like, I'm no good, I'm weak, I'm ugly, I have no clothes, and then and then reframe that and say, I am a human being. I am special. I am a powerful person.

他们会这样做——或对着镜子，或通过其他方式。比如亨利·福特就曾坐在他父亲农舍的老椅子上，不断默念‘我能做到’。我也学会了这种方法。作为一个孩子，我再次因居住环境和身份遭受霸凌与憎恶。

And they would do that, and they would do it in front of a mirror or do it in some other way. They would like Henry Ford sat on his father's chair at his old farmhouse and just sit there and think, like, I can do this. I can do this. And so I learned to do that. And, as a kid, again, bullied, being hated, for where I was living and who I was.

我姐姐比我大18岁，弟弟比我小18个月。我们通常要走到村子尽头搭公交，在车上被欺凌。我说的霸凌不是辱骂，而是被扒光衣服用笔在身上涂写，明白吗？这是极其严重的伤害。

My sister, who was older than me by 18, and my brother who was younger than me by eighteen months, and I typically would walk down to the bottom of the village, get a bus, we get bullied on the bus. We get and when I'm talking about bullying, I'm talking about getting stripped naked and written on by pens. Right? I'm not talking about cold names. I'm talking about serious.

书籍。我们别无选择，这是上学的必经之路。要么就冒雨步行五英里。我们就这样去学校，直到某天我读到这些书——

Books. And so so we well, we had to do it. This is how we get to school. And or we walk five miles in in the rain. And so we would go down there, and I suddenly read these books.

哦，不是突然的。但通过这些书，我意识到可以换种思维方式。于是当兄妹走大路去车站时，我穿过奶牛牧场，在牛群中反复告诉自己：我能做到，我能成为这样的人。

Oh, didn't suddenly. But I read these books, and I realized I can think differently. And so my brother and sister would walk down the road, down the lane to go to the bus, and I would go across the field amongst the cows and and all that stuff that's in the field with cows. And I would think differently, and I would say, I I can do this. I can do this.

我能做到，我能成为这样的人。16岁时，学校辅导员说：‘特雷弗，轮到你了。我们来谈谈你的未来，这就是你将来的样子。’

I can do this. I can be this person. When I was at school, when I was 16, the school counselor said, Trevor, it's your turn to come. We're gonna talk about your life. This is what you're gonna be.

‘这就是你的宿命。’我坐在狭小如储物间的房间里，对面是位非常美丽的女士——说真的她光彩照人，但当时我只是个孩子。她说：‘特雷弗，我给你找了份好工作。’

This is who you are. And I sat in this tiny room. It's like a closet with this woman who was very beautiful, by the way. She's really gorgeous, but I was just like a kid. And she said, Trevor, I've got this great job for you.

然后她递给我一张申请表，是附近一家鸡肉加工厂的见习经理职位，就在沿着登比镇的下一个镇。我们住在里斯恩，这里是登比。这就是她对我的看法——一个鸡肉加工厂的见习经理。我气疯了。

And she handed me an application form, and it was for, an apprentice manager at a chicken packing factory up the road, up the town next town next town along Denby. We lived in Rithyn. This was Denby. And and so this is how she saw me, an apprentice manager at a chicken packing factory. And I was so mad.

我站起来咒骂她，她不该承受这些，但我实在太愤怒了。我摔门而出回到家，把经过告诉父母。他们说，这其实是个不错的offer。

I got up. I cursed at her, and she didn't deserve that, but I was so angry. And I walked out, and I I went home. I told my parents what happened. They said, well, it's not a bad offer.

待遇挺好的，毕竟是份工作对吧？当时我父亲终身失业，母亲正因癌症濒临死亡。所以他们觉得这不算糟糕。

It's pretty good. It's a job. Right? And then my dad was unemployed my whole life, and my mom was dying of cancer. So they thought, oh, it's not bad.

但我拒绝了。我说我要当皇家海军军官——因为当时电视上正播放年轻海军军官的纪录片，我觉得那简直酷毙了。嗯。

And I said, no. I'm gonna be an officer in the Royal Navy because at the same time, there was a TV show on, and it showed these young officers in the Royal Navy. And he thought that would be so cool. It would be so cool to do that. Mhmm.

他们却说不可能，说我们这种地方出身的人根本做不到这种事。

And they said, no. You can't. No. It's impossible. No one from here does stuff like that.

但我最终做到了。我去参加了面试，母亲带我去征兵办说：'给他申请表，不然我杀了你'。

Well, I made it. Right? So I went down. I had interviews. My mom took me to the recruiting office and said, give him an application or I'll kill you.

征兵官说：'你们这种背景的人...不适合这里'。母亲坚持要他给申请表。填完表后，我收到了面试邀请。

And he said, no. People from your background don't don't go there. She said, give him an application. Filled in the application. I got invited down for interviews.

我通过了面试，最终成为皇家海军的一名军官，实际上看起来有点像这样。从我的起点走到这一步，变化巨大。这可能是我一生中最大的转变。而当你遵循这三个简单步骤时，这就是可能发生的。你掌控了自己的心态。

I got through the interviews, and I ended up as an officer in the Royal Navy, looking a bit like this, actually. And to go from where I was to there is huge. It's probably the biggest shift I've ever had in my whole life. And that's what's possible when you just follow the three simple steps. You control your mentality.

你重构了你的思维。你开始运用直觉。于是你开始感受而非思考。这样你就不会过度用脑。你进入了一个转变的空间，如今几十年过去，我已经掌握了更复杂的工具和技巧。

You reframe your thoughts. You start to use your intuition. So you start to feel stuff instead of thinking stuff. So you don't go brain forward. You start and and and transformative space, I got now, you know, decades on, I've got more sophisticated tools and techniques.

所以现在，我称之为躯干魔杖。与其过度用脑分析一切，我们运用整个身体。我们使用大脑，使用心灵，也使用太阳神经丛。

So today, I call it the torso wand. So instead of being brain forward and trying to analyze everything, we use the full thing. So we use the brain. We use the heart. We use the solar plexus.

我们称它为躯干魔杖。它像一把军刀，像我们在世间使用的个人佩剑。效果非常美妙。这就是我小时候学会的，现在我能以成人身份传授它，这是一种荣幸，绝对的荣幸。这就是事情的经过。

We call it a torso wand. It's like a saber. It's like a personal saber that we use in the world. And it works beautifully. And that's what I learned to do when I was a kid, and now I can teach it as an adult, and that's an honor, an absolute honor to be able to do so then that that's what happened.

于是我成为了皇家海军军官，后来经历了企业生涯，最终成为企业家。在这整个过程中，最重要的是什么？我与最了不起的女人结婚三十八年。她在2020年2月去世。

So I I became an officer in the Royal Navy, and then eventually you had a, you know, corporate career, and then eventually became an entrepreneur. And all through that time, what's the most important thing? I was married for thirty eight years. Thirty eight years to the most amazing woman. She died in 02/2020.

我曾以为不可能再次坠入爱河。但后来我意识到独处实在太糟糕。于是我决定设定新的意向——这也是我在转型体验中教授的课程。我的新意向是：我不想再孤单，我要另娶他人。

It I didn't think it was possible to fall in love again. But then I decided that being alone was shit. So I went and decided I'm gonna I'm gonna set another intention, which I teach in the transformation experience. So my new intention is I don't want be alone anymore. I wanna marry someone else.

我想找到能激励我的人。现在我与杰西卡结婚三年，她激励我不断学习。我学会了跳舞，正在学习卡通绘制和插画。

I wanna find someone who's gonna inspire me. I'm now three years married to Jessica, who is inspiring me to learn. So I've learned to dance. I'm learning cartoons. I'm learning to illustrate.

我正在学习绘画。在我这个年纪尝试所有这些新事物，这都归功于我童年时阅读传记的收获。就是这样。这也是我想传达给我们的。我从中并未获得任何金钱利益。

I'm learning to draw. Doing all these new things at my age, and this is all possible because of what I learned reading biographies as a child. And that's it. And that's what I'm trying to teach us. I I don't get any money from this.

我没有赚取任何利润。我不需要钱。我只是想告诉人们，人生并未结束，命运并非注定，你不是被操纵的木偶。

I don't make any profit. I don't I don't need the money. I'm just trying to explain to people that it's not over. It's not determined. You're not dancing like a puppet.

只要弄明白其中的道理，你就能掌控人生。其实不必自己摸索，我已经为你总结好了。所以去读书吧，参加课程吧。

You can take control if you just figure out the stuff. Well, you don't have to figure it out. I figured it out for you. So read the book. Do the course.

把握自己的人生。核心就是这样。我们之所以对话，是因为你明白这点——你做过调查，你是个优秀的记者。初次见面时我就看出来了，所以我才愿意分享。每个人都有可能像我五岁时那样顿悟。

Take control of your life. And that's pretty much it. And that's why we're talking because you know that because you've you've you've investigated because you're raised you're a very good journalist. And then I knew this when I first met you, so, that's why I I to do this. So it's it's possible for everybody to say, when I was five, I had figured it out.

我当时就知道了，对吧？我知道自己有天赋，可以成为宇航员，也能当忍者，无论什么梦想。

I knew. Right? I knew I had talent. I knew I could be an astronaut. I knew I could be a ninja, whatever it was.

对吧？但当你55岁时，却觉得一切都结束了。停下。不，并非如此。

Right? And then you get to 55 and you think it's all over. Stop. No. It's not.

永远为时不晚。这就是我想教会每个人的——放手去追梦吧。无论如何，勇敢尝试。

It's never too late. That's what I wanna try and teach everybody, like, just go for it. Go for it. Anyway.

我非常喜欢你讲的那个关于你高中辅导员的故事。你没有让她对你的看法影响你的人生。我认为这是许多人面临的最大困境之一——周围环境用特定眼光看待他们。有时可能是因为肤色，可能是性别，可能是性别认同，无论是什么。因为环境这样看待他们，他们就接受了这种设定，而没有意识到：不。

I love what you're talking about that that story about your high school counselor. You didn't let her perception of you influence your life. And I think that's one of the biggest struggles a lot of people face in which the environment sees them in a specific way. And in some cases, maybe it's because of the color of the skin, maybe it's the woman, maybe it's the gender identity, whatever it is. And because the environment sees them in a specific way, they buy into them and not realize that, no.

你有权说，这不是真实的我。这可能是你对我的看法，但我掌控着自己的人生方向。听起来你就是这么做的。你就像在说：不，我才不要在养鸡场工作。

You have the option to say, this is not me. It might be how you see me, but I'm in control of how my life is going to be. And it sounds like that's what you did. You're kind of like, nope. I'm not gonna be working in the chicken farm.

我的人生目标是做些不同的事。你觉得为什么人们会在这方面挣扎？

I have a goal to be able to do something different for my life. Why do you think people struggle with that?

我确实认为，我们总让别人定义我们是谁，我不同意这点，从来都不同意。可能因此我有点傲慢。但我的同事们...你看，我踢足球。那些球友16岁就辍学，去建筑工地和餐厅打工。这些工作本身没什么问题。

I I I do think, we let people tell us who we are, and I don't agree with it, and I never have. And maybe I'm a bit arrogant because of that. But my so so my colleagues, right, I played soccer. And so my soccer friends, they left school at 16, and they went to work in construction sites and in restaurants. And there's nothing wrong with any of that.

只是他们都有潜力。我有个...其实不算朋友，后来成了朋友。他非常聪明，当时在农场干活。

It's just that they all had the potential. So I had a friend. Well, he wasn't a friend. He became a friend, And he was really smart. And his he he was working on a farm.

他是农场主的长子。父亲伤了背，他不得不辍学务农。我就问：需要帮忙吗？

He was the son. He was the oldest son on a farm. And his dad hurt his back, and he had to leave. And he had to go and work on a farm. So I said, do you want any help?

后来我和他一起在农场工作，连续几个夏天共同收割劳作。他本可以上任何大学，成就任何事业，但境遇限制了他。而我的情况是，全世界都让我往某个方向走，但我有足够的自由说'不，我能反抗'——因为我没有他那样的家庭责任。

And I went to work on the farm with him, and we worked for several summers together doing the harvest and everything. And he could have gone to any university. He could have had any he could have done anything he wanted, but he couldn't because of circumstances. And in my situation, my circumstances where the the world said you've gotta go in this direction, but I was free enough to say, no. I can resist, because I didn't have the responsibility.

所以我拒绝了，因为我住在一栋破旧的房子里，一栋破败的农舍。至少我有自由说‘不’，我不会那么做。而我朋友没有这种选择余地。有趣的是——

So I resisted because I I I lived in a run a rundown house, a run down run down farmhouse. So I was at least I had the freedom to say, no. I'm not gonna do that. And my friend didn't have that potential. And so here's the fun thing.

结果我朋友不得不接手农场，放弃事业，放弃自己的人生等等。我们曾一起玩耍，共度美好时光。我后来加入海军，每次休假回来都会去农场帮忙干活。

So so my friend ended up having to take over the farm, give up his career, give up his life, and all the rest of it. We had we hung out. We had a fantastic time together. I joined the navy, came back. Or when I came back, every time on leave, went to work on the farm.

我还和他其中一个姐妹有过一段恋情，在所有这些美好经历中，生活继续着。多年过去，我们失去了联系。直到两年前重逢时，他竟获得了OBE勋章——大英帝国官佐勋章。因为政治贡献，他受到了皇室嘉奖。

I had an affair with one of his sisters, in all of the beautiful stuff, there's life. And then years go by, and we don't keep in touch. And then I met him two years ago, and he has an OBE, which is an order of the British Empire. He's been he's been given a he's he's been given a prize by the royal family for his efforts in politics. Right?

他的政治立场不合我意。但他也活出了自己的人生，以自己的方式。这些我直到两年前重新联系时才知晓。我觉得一切皆有可能。

His politics is not my thing. But he made his life too. He made it in his own way. And I didn't know that until, you know, two years ago when we got we finally got back in touch again. And I I just think everything is possible.

他从...我不知该如何形容。当年我们在农场时，收割庄稼、照料牲畜，忙得精疲力竭。为了发泄压力，我们会去踢球。我们发明了叫'足球高尔夫'的游戏，对着围栏踢球。从那样的日子到他获得大英帝国勋章，这跨度远超我此生任何成就。

So for him to go from so I I don't know how to put it. So when we play when we were on the farm, we would, you know, do the harvest, do the all the stuff you do with animals, Morrisville, and we'd be absolutely exhausted. And in order to let the stress out, we'd go and kick a ball. We played a thing called football golf, and we would kick a ball against the fence, and that was what we did. To go from that to him winning an order of the British Empire is massive and far beyond anything I've ever done in my life.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这就是我的朋友。我根本不可能预见到这一切。要是我当初预言这事，他会笑掉大牙说：'绝无可能！首先我不从政，其次这种事不会发生'。

And that was my friend. And that and and there was no way I could have predicted that. If I'd said that's gonna happen, he'd have laughed his head off at me and say, there's no way. Not first of all, I'm not getting in politics. Secondly, that's not gonna happen.

第三，我不喜欢英国人。那不会发生的。也不喜欢皇室家族。那也不会发生的。但他最终全都做到了，我认为这很美。

Thirdly, I don't like the English. That's not gonna happen. Don't like the royal family. That's not gonna happen. But he ends up doing it all, and I think that's beautiful.

我想他的名字是，嗯，他叫休（Hugh），H-U-G-E。我不想让他难堪，所以想提一下他。休·埃文斯。总之这是个精彩的故事。他成功了。

And I think I think his name is, so, you know, so his name is Hugh, h u g e. I I don't wanna embarrass him, so I wanna use him. So Hugh Evans. Anyway, it's a fantastic story. So he made it.

在每个人对成功的定义里，他成功了，但他从未刻意追求成功。他从未尝试过。而他是我认为最不可能成功的人，因为他放弃一切去经营农场。而在他眼中，我大概也是最不可能成功的人，因为当时的我就是那样。明白吗？

In everyone's description of what does a sec success mean, he made it, but he never set out to make it. He never tried. And he was the last person I thought would ever make it because he gave up to take care of the farm. And and and in his probably identity for me, I was probably the last person he thought would ever make it because I was who I was. You know?

我当时就像个疯子。不过这不重要。关键是不要让任何人——老师、父母、孩子，谁都别管——不要让任何人定义你的能力上限。你能做到你渴望的事，只管去做。

I was, like, a crazy guy. Anyway, it doesn't matter. All the all the the the main point is that don't let anyone anyone, teacher, parent, child, don't matter. Don't let anyone tell you what you're capable of. You are capable of what you want, and you go do it.

就是这样。直接行动。我认为生命是最奇妙的冒险，而大多数人并未真正享受其中。我希望人们能享受生命，这就是我做这些事的初衷。

And that's it. You just do it. I think it's I I think life is, the most amazing adventure that most people don't actually enjoy. And I want people to enjoy it, and that's why I do this.

对于正在收听、心想'好吧，我开始相信自己能改变人生，不被生活条件束缚'但还不确定该从何入手的人，你会建议他们采取什么第一步来建立改变的动力，从当前困境迈向理想生活？

And for people listening to this and they're like, okay. I think or I'm starting to believe that I can change my life and not be influenced by the conditions in my life, but they are not quite sure what's the first step to take or what they should consider doing first. What would you recommend as a first step to start building that momentum to start changing their life to the way they want it to be versus to where they currently are stuck in the moment? Okay.

好问题。我们活在一个人们总以为存在完美路径或完美行为方式的世界，但其实没有。我和任何人一样有缺陷，和你见过的任何人一样混乱。对吧？

Great question. And I think we live in a world where people think there's some kind of perfect path or a perfect way to behave, And there isn't. And I am as flawed as anybody. I'm as messed up as anybody you'll ever meet. Right?

但我开发了工具和方法来克服自身缺陷。这正是蜕变经历的意义所在。《三个简单步骤》这本书的核心内容就是如此——如果我能做到，任何人都可以做到。你只需跨越这些障碍。

But I develop tools and techniques to get over my flaws. That's what the transformation experience is. So that's what Three Simple Steps, the book is about. It's like, if if I can do this, anyone can do this. You just overcome this stuff.

所以我想对所有人说：首先，重塑自我永远为时不晚。永远都不晚。其次，这其实很简单，只需践行一些非常基础的事。但关键在于——

And so for everybody, I would say, first of all, it's never too late to reinvent yourself. It's never too late. Secondly, it's really simple. There's very simple things you have to do. But here's the key.

秘诀在于：你不需要成为圣人。当你看到所有那些自助大师和人生导师时，他们营造出英雄般的形象，其实不然。我们都有缺陷，这很正常。存在缺陷并不是问题。

Here's the secret. You don't need to become a saint. So when you watch all of these self help gurus and all these life coaches and that they give in the impression that they're some kind of hero, no. We're all messed up, and that's okay. There's nothing wrong with being messed up.

杰斯是位动画师，她还自己创作书籍。在她的作品《独角兽凯文》中，结尾写道：'这对独角兽凯文来说是糟糕的一天，但这没关系。'有缺陷没关系，犯错也没关系。

Jess is is a a animator. And and one of her she and she writes her own books. And one of her books, Kevin the Unicorn, the last line in the book is, it was a bad day for Kevin the Unicorn, and that's okay. It's okay to be flawed. It's okay to mess up.

不完美是可以接受的。我们本就不需要完美。我们只需要意识到：自己对后续行动仍保有基本掌控力。比如当我看到信用卡账单时——我曾深陷卡债——我会惊呼：'天啊！我都干了什么？'

It's okay to not be perfect. And we don't need to be. All we need to do is is not is is is realize that we have some modicum of control over what we do next. So if I if I see my credit card bill, which I used to because I used to have a lot of credit card debt, and I would see my credit card bill, and I would go, oh my god. What have I done?

胃部绞痛，满脑子都是'完了，该怎么偿还这笔债？太可怕了。'这时你真正需要做的，就是对此作出反应。

My stomach turns over. I think, oh, no. It's just it's how am gonna pay this up? It's terrible. What you have to do is just is just react to that.

与其让债务定义你的人生，不如设想：'当我实现财务自由、清偿所有卡债时，生活会怎样？'在蜕变过程中，最美好的部分就是人人都能摆脱债务。这是首要任务，我们最先攻克的目标就是：消除负债。

So instead of instead of making that become your life, you say, okay. What would life be like when I'm financially independent, when I don't have any credit card debt? And in the transformation experience, the most beautiful part of the transformation experience is that everybody becomes debt free. It's the most important thing. The the first thing we work on, first thing, let's get rid of the debt.

让我们摆脱债务吧。因为当你负债时，你无法获得自由。要知道，这是个现代世界，对吧？债务是我们现代生活的一部分。

Let's get rid of the debt. Because you can't be free when you have debt. And so, because it's a you know, it's a modern world. Right? Debt is part of our modern world.

作为商人或其他身份，你可以有债务，但你不希望有个人债务。所以摆脱个人债务后，你就自由了，然后你可以问自己：今天我要成为什么样的人？这真是件美好的事。我们致力于此，当人们实现无债一身轻时，那是最美妙的时刻。

You can have debt as a businessman or whatever, but you don't want personal debt. So you get rid of the personal debt, and then you're free, and then you say, okay. Who am I gonna be today? And, and and that's a beautiful thing. So we work on that, and when people become debt free, it's the most beautiful thing.

每当人们说'无债一身轻'时，我都感动得想哭。他们给我发邮件，你知道吗？他们发来的邮件从来不用小写字母，总是全大写。

It makes me wanna cry when people say, debt free. They send me emails. And you know what? When they send the emails, they never send it in lowercase. It's always in uppercase.

永远如此。他们会说：哇，这是我人生中第一次无债一身轻。这太美好了，也是最重要的事。所以我们要解决所有这些问题，通过改变我们对本能反应的反应方式来实现。

Always. Say, wow. I'm death free for the first time in my life. It's just a beautiful thing, and that's the most important thing. So, we figure we figure all of that out, and we do it by changing the way we react to our gut reaction.

当我们看到信用卡账单时，我们会惊呼：天啊，不，这太糟了。然后我们说：停下。

So so we we we see our credit card statement. We go, oh my god. No. It's terrible. And then we say, stop.

接着我们改变心态，想象未来无债时的情景：比如去街角的酒铺买瓶香槟，和朋友分享，用现金支付。我们通过想象未来并将其带回现实来改变现状。这是科学，听起来可能有点玄乎，但确实是科学。

And then we change it, and we say, okay. I'm gonna imagine now and imagine what it will be like when I'm debt free, and I go to the local liquor store, for instance, and I buy a bottle of champagne, and I share it with my friends, and I pay cash for it. And so we change it by taking an imagination of the future and bringing it back to ourselves. And this is science. It's not it sounds woo woo, but actually it's science.

这就是我们在科学领域的做法——万物皆能量。我们进入希格斯场，穿越未来，回溯过去。我们把过去和未来都拉到现在，告诉自己：这终将改变我，也改变我们周围的每个人。这是件美妙的事。

It's what we do with the, so in science, anything's energy, and we we we go into the Higgs field, and we go into the future. We go into the past, and that's what we do. So we pull we pull the past, we pull the future. We bring it to ourselves, and we say, this this this finally is gonna change who I am and change everybody else around us. It's a beautiful thing.

我只是希望每个人都能体验这种感受。而令我沮丧的是，当下最流行的意识形态缺乏实用工具和方法论。它们听起来美好，思考起来积极，让人感觉良好。

And I just want everyone to experience this. And and my frustration is that the most popular ideologies that are out there don't have the tools and techniques. So it feels good. It sounds good. You think good.

你会对生活更有信心。但具体的方法在哪里？所以我正在提供这些工具和技巧。我用这种方式实践，这会带来改变。

You feel better about your life. But where's the tools and techniques? So I'm providing tools and techniques. I do it this way. This will change.

那将改变一切。你将拥有最精彩的人生。举个真实案例——我想他不介意我提他的名字，他叫布莱克（这是我的姓氏，却是他的名字）。曾经在职场痛苦挣扎，

That will change. You'll have the most amazing life. Good example, a real example, would be and he doesn't mind me using his name, I don't think. His name is my last name, Blake, but that's his first name. Corporate world, miserable.

感情生活一团糟，债务堆积如山。而最近他刚完成了一笔2.5亿美元的交易。还需要我多说什么吗？

Relationship's terrible. Debt up to his eyeballs. He just did a $250,000,000 deal. What else do I have to say?

这太不可思议了。当你描述这个转变过程时，提到触发点——无论是信用卡账单、求职失败、分手或任何人生挫折，关键在于停下脚步，觉察情绪反应，中断消极循环，然后通过想象理想场景来改变感受。这让我想起一句名言：想象力比知识更重要。因为我们总想通过获取更多信息来改变生活，却忽略了运用想象力。其次，情感和情绪对于创造理想生活究竟有多重要？

That's amazing. And as you're talking about the process, right, you get that trigger, that response to your credit card bill, you didn't get the job, someone broke up with you, whatever happens in life, because life happens, stopping, kind of becoming aware of that emotional response, stopping it, and then imagining the ideal scenario so that you can change how you're feeling. And so it reminds me one of the quote, imagination is more important than knowledge, because I think a lot of the time when we want to fix our life and change our life, we're always looking for more information, not leveraging our imagination. And then the second thing is, how do what is the importance of feelings and emotions in being able to create the life that you want?

这是个非常深刻的问题，感谢提问。首先暂停至关重要。就像你说的，退后一步暂停。我建议每个人都不要急于破解难题，不要试图立刻解开人生方程式，

So, again, a very deep question and very profound. I thank you for it. First of all, the pause is really important. So what you're saying is like, pause, step back. And so, one of the things I recommend for everybody is that you don't try to crack the you you don't try to solve the equation.

不要强行撬开坚果，而是适当努力后抽离，走进自然，让自然成为老师。明白吗？大自然是我们的终极导师。建立这样的节奏非常重要。关键在于允许生命本身来填充细节。

You don't try to crack the nut, that you work a little bit and then you pull back and you go into nature, you let you let nature teach. Right? So nature's our biggest teacher. And and so that's very, very important to set that schedule up and and all the rest of it. The the the there's an importance to allowing life, to put it, so allowing life to fill in the details.

就像，你知道的，顺其自然，让生活引领你。这非常、非常、非常重要。其中一个挑战是人们评判成功的方式。对吧？他们会说，好吧。

Like like, you you know, just let it you let life lead. That's so, so, so important. One of the challenges is the way people judge success. Right? So they say, okay.

除非你拥有三千万、一亿或两亿，否则你就不算成功。但仅仅快乐也可以很成功。对吧？拥有一段美好的关系也可以很成功。做真实的自己也可以很成功。

So you're not successful unless you have 30,000,000 or a 100,000,000 or 200,000,000. But you can be successful just being happy. Right? You can just be successful having a great relationship. You can be successful just being you.

对吧？你比我还清楚这一点。我认为这是一种思维方式的转变，从我们小时候被教导的要不断追求目标，转变为活在当下、享受此刻。我现在遇到的那些极其成功的人，他们的成功程度甚至超出我的理解范围，但他们都非常平和。

Right? You you know this better than I do. And I think it's a mind so it's like changing your mindset from what we're taught as kids, which is, like, go go go and aim for something, to being present and, being in the moment. And all so so where I am right now, I'm meeting people who are very, very, very successful, like, beyond my possible understanding of success. They're all very calm people.

他们都非常注重当下，而且都会花时间亲近自然。这是最重要的事。他们会坐在阳台上看海，会去散步。他们不会匆忙赶车去追求那些所谓的精彩体验。

They're all very present people, and they all spend time in nature. That's the most important thing. So they will sit on the veranda and watch the ocean. They will go for a walk. They don't get on a bus and go off and do amazing experiences like that.

他们非常、非常、非常活在当下。实际上，我现在说话轻声细语，因为他们让我感受到这种临在感。他们让我感到平静，让我内心安宁。其中有些人曾对我说，特雷弗，你和杰斯已经很成功了。

They're very, very, very present. And, actually, I'm, I'm actually talking quietly because they make me feel this present. They make me feel calm. They make me feel quiet. And, some of them have said to me, Trevor, you know, you're you're you and Jess, you're so successful and everything.

但当我们深入交谈后，我会意识到，与他们相比，其实我还不够。于是我们会逐渐平静下来。所以每个人都活在当下——这是成功的关键：安住此刻、不刻意追求、不强求结果，而是保持临在与平和。接下来有三个简单步骤，我们刚才讨论了心态掌控——

And then we'll start talking, and I'll realize that, well, actually, compared to them, I'm not. And so we'll calm down and calm down. So so everyone's very present. That's a really important part of success is to be in the moment, to be present, to not be striving, to not be trying, to not be trying to crack it, to not be trying to make it happen, but to be present and calm. And so in three simple steps, I, one of the next steps you took so we talked about mentality control.

下一步就是寻找这种时刻。我称之为静默时间：二十分钟里我们停止努力，完全活在当下，什么都不做。这非常美妙、非常宁静。从你眼神里我能看出，你理解这种感觉。

One of the next steps is to is to find this moment. I call it taking quiet time. This moment where we just go quiet, and we stop trying and we just go present for twenty minutes and just, like, just do nothing for twenty minutes. It's very beautiful, very calming, very I mean, I can see in your eyes now you say, yeah. I get this.

我知道这个。我理解这个。所以就是这样，我甚至不确定我是否在回答你的问题，但当我们做这些播客时，会有一些想法突然冒出来，不知从何而来。我不知道。我只是说出那些浮现的想法。

I know this. I understand this. So that is so so I'm not even sure I'm even answering your question, but I when we do these podcasts, stuff comes in to me that has come from nowhere. I don't know. I just say what comes in.

所以你们听众中有人需要听到这一点：真正重要的是停止尝试，只需活在当下。就现在，就在这里。只需保持临在。

So somebody in your audience needs to hear that it's really important to stop trying and just be present. Just be here right now. Just be present.

我喜欢这个观点。非常喜欢。我想稍微深入探讨一下那二十分钟的安静时光。是喝咖啡或茶时望着窗外的二十分钟吗？还是冥想？

I love that. I love that. And asking a little bit just kinda to go a little bit deeper into that twenty minutes of quiet time. Is it twenty minutes you're having your coffee or your tea and you're just looking outside? Is it meditation?

是写日记吗？那二十分钟具体是怎样的？

Is it journaling? What how how does that twenty minutes look like?

老实说，我认为形式并不重要，但每个人都有自己的标签。你会遇到教练说必须坐在紫色猫爬架般的尖石上二十分钟，也会遇到另一个建议做瑜伽的。比如杰斯就做高难度瑜伽，那种单臂支撑的惊人动作。

I think it matters to be honest, but I I I think everyone has labels and, you know, you'll you'll find a coach who says you have to sit on a pointy rock in a purple cat stand for twenty minutes. And you'll find another one who says do yoga. So so Jess does advanced yoga, and she does this amazing yoga where sometimes she's on one arm. One arm. She's like lifted up on one arm.

很厉害，但那是她的专长。不是我的。我做不到也不想做。

It's amazing, but that's her thing. That's her thing. It's not my thing. I can't do that. And I don't wanna do that.

所以我认为关键是给自己时间，让潜意识与意识进行交流

So I think it's just taking time for you and allowing one's subconscious to communicate with one's conscious

嗯。

Mhmm.

无需刻意为之，没有规则，没有条条框框。所以我称之为静心时刻——因为小时候人们谈论冥想时，我觉得有点怪，有点神神叨叨的，所以不喜欢。后来发现我读的所有传记里，主人公都有静心时刻。比如亨利·福特会坐在他老农场的摇椅上。

Without trying to make it happen, without a rule, without regulations. And so I call it taking quiet time because it was this when I was a kid, when people talked about meditation, I thought it was bit weird. I thought it was a bit woo woo, and so I didn't like it. And then I realized that in all the biographies I read, well, they all take quiet time. Like, Henry Ford would sit on the rocking chair in his old farmhouse.

我的偶像是CJ·沃克夫人，她会坐在树上，坐在树枝上，二十分钟、三十分钟地坐着。时间长短重要吗？对吧？

I mean, that's CJ Walker, madam CJ Walker, was my hero, by the way, madam CJ Walker, she would sit in a tree. She would sit in the branch of a tree. And that's what and she would sit there for twenty minutes, thirty minutes. Who cares what the time is? Right?

她会一直坐在那里，直到重拾信心才下树面对生活。如果谁不知道CJ·沃克夫人，都该去读她的传记。她生为奴隶之女，遭受虐待，经历你能想象的所有苦难——身为女性，还有...（斟酌用词）在白人社会里作为黑人。

So she would sit there for a period of time until until she built the confidence to come out of the tree and go and face life again. She, so if no one knows who madam CJ Walker is, you should everyone should look into her biography. She was born to slaves, was abused, was was had every possible adversary that's you can even imagine in a human being, including being female and also I don't know what the right term is. Get I get it wrong. Black is Black totally in a in a white society.

对吧？白人社会里的黑人女性，奴隶出身，连刀叉都不让用——因为算武器，也不许工作——只有男人能务农。她的人生本该就此完结。

Right? So female and black in a white society and born to slaves. Not even allowed to own a knife and fork because they were considered weapons. Not allowed to work because only men could work, and they could only work in agriculture. So her life is done.

嗯。而她坐在树上想通了，后来成为美国首位女性百万富翁。这故事让我震撼，小时候读到就想：哇...

Mhmm. And she would sit in a tree, and she would figure it out. And she became America's first female millionaires. And that is inspiring and stunning to me. And I I remember as a kid reading that story, and I thought, wow.

想想我现在遇到的困难...哇，多么了不起啊！但她的成功并非源于具体行动——虽然她后来从政，用财富改变政局——而是源于在树上什么都不做的时刻。

And I think I'm having a hard time. Wow. I mean, how amazing is that? But her success came not from what she did or and and she did amazing stuff, but and and she went on to do incredible things, like, as she got into politics and used her success and her her money to change politics. But her success came from sitting in the tree doing nothing.

亨利·福特也是如此。比如，我该怎么解决这个问题？我就坐在这把椅子上想明白。所以我总是称之为‘静默时间’，因为我不想让它显得玄乎或困难。我只是说，就坐二十分钟。

And same with Henry Ford. Like, how do I figure this out? I'll sit in this chair and figure it out. So I always I always think that taking so I've always called it taking quiet time because I don't wanna make it seem woo woo or difficult. I'm just saying, just sit for twenty minutes.

你值得拥有。我们是人类，我们如此努力，工作时间如此之长。给自己二十分钟有什么错？这有什么问题？

You you you've earned it. Like, we're we're human beings. We've we've worked so hard, and we work so long. So what's wrong with having twenty minutes to ourselves? What's wrong with that?

就坐在椅子上二十分钟，什么都不做。这有什么错？没有。所以这就是我的冥想方式，就是什么都不做。

And just sit in a chair for twenty minutes and do nothing. What's wrong with that? There's nothing. So that's my version of meditation. It's just like, yeah, do nothing.

我一直没改变这个习惯。我一生中从未给‘静默时间’添加任何花哨的版本、步骤、公式或算法。直到今天，我早上起床后，就会安静地坐着，不一定在椅子上，而是像现在这样，坐二十分钟，什么都不做。

And I've not changed that. I've done that. So I haven't I haven't over my life, I haven't created any fancy versions of taking quiet time or any any steps or formulas or or or or algorithms or anything. I still today, I will get up in the morning, and I will sit quietly, not necessarily in a chair, but I'll I'll where I am here right now. I will sit here for twenty minutes and do nothing.

杰丝还在睡觉，等她起床后，也会坐二十分钟什么都不做。然后我们迎接新的一天，并因此创造出惊人的东西。我觉得生活比我们想象的要简单得多。

And Jess will be sleeping, and then she'll get up, and she'll sit there and do nothing for twenty minutes. And then we face the day, and we create amazing stuff because of that. I I I don't know. I think life is much simpler than we think it's supposed to be.

完全同意。想想我们的社会，拼命赶、赶、赶。

Absolutely. And I'm just thinking in our societies, like, super hard. Go. Go. Go.

快节奏。上网一看，信息爆炸，噪音不断，我们往大脑里塞了太多垃圾。

Go. Go. You go online. It's, like, so much information. It's so noisy, and there's so much noise and junk that we put into our brain.

我非常赞同你关于静默时刻的观点，因为如果我们开始实践这种静默，大脑实际上能够接收信息或创造解决方案——那些我们可能以为自己无力应对的难题，往往能在静默中找到最具创意的答案。请纠正我的理解是否有误，这种静默时间是否确实能帮助激活大脑的潜能？

And I love what you're saying about quiet time because some of the most creative, and correct me if I'm wrong, some of the most creative ideas and solutions to a lot of the things that we might be facing can be found if we start practicing that quiet time so that our brain can actually receive that information or create those solutions that we might feel we might not have the capacity to do it, but that quiet time can help prime the brain. Would that be accurate as well?

你看，我创办过七家公司。每个公司的灵感都诞生于我在林间漫步时，而不是坐在电脑前。就在两周前还发生了这样的事——在我们这次旅程期间，我刚刚卖掉了一家公司。那天我安静地坐着，突然转身对杰斯说：我要卖掉公司。

So, I mean, you know, I've I've had seven companies. Every idea for every company has come while I'm walking amongst trees, not while I'm sitting at a computer. And and sometimes the idea so it actually happened, two weeks ago. I just sold the company while we've been on this adventure. So, like, two weeks ago, I just sat quietly, then I turned around to Jess, and I said, I'm selling.

他只说了声'好'。没有争辩，没有追问细节。我说：不，就是一种必须出售的直觉。纯粹的直觉。

He said, okay. And she didn't argue, and she didn't fight, and she didn't say how. And I said, no. I just got this feeling I have to sell. Just a feeling.

就是种感觉。而且全发生在同一天。严格来说甚至不到一天...

It's a feeling. And it's all the same day. One day. Wow. Not not even not even one day.

六小时后就有了两个报价。成交，完成。买家是个充满活力的意大利人，非常优秀的家伙。

Was, like, six hours later. Mhmm. Two offers. Sold, done. And and the guy who's bought it, Italian guy, full of energy, fantastic human being.

他会把公司带到新高度。但这个决定就是突然做出的。明白吗？有时你醒来就顿悟了。这需要静默时刻的酝酿。

He's gonna take it to the next level. But I just decided. Right? They just wake up and you go, okay. It'll take quiet time.

好了，现在该开始了。我已竭尽所能，是时候放手了。所以静默对我而言至关重要——但关键是要把它列入日程。

Okay. Now it's time to start. I'm I've done the best I can do. Now it's time to sell this thing. So for me so so the quiet is is is really important, but it's important to schedule it.

关于转型经验，我谈到五小时工作制，听起来有点古怪又有点新时代。但我真正想说的是，不要试图一次性工作超过两小时。工作两小时后，休息两小时。你可以去散步、摸摸树或做任何你想做的事。然后再工作两小时，再休息两小时。

So with transformation experience, I talk about the five hour workday, and it sounds a bit quirky and a bit new age. But what I'm talking about is don't try and work more than two hours at a time. So you work two hours, and then you take two hours off. And you go for a walk, and you touch some trees or whatever you wanna do. And then you work two hours again, and you take two hours off.

之后我会再工作一小时。而杰斯和我是不同类型的人，她更适合夜间工作。我喜欢早晨工作。所以她也会采用相同模式，但不会在上午工作。到了晚上——就像她现在这样——她会工作两小时，然后休息，接着再工作两小时再休息。

And then I will work one more hour. And Jess is a different human being to me, so Jess will she's better working at night. I like to work during the morning. So she will do the same thing, but she won't work in the morning. And then in the evening, like where she is now, she'll go off and work for two hours in the evening, take her time out, then go work two hours in the evening, take her time out.

我认为关键是要弄清楚自己是哪种类型的人，找到最适合的工作方式。讽刺的是，与普遍认知相反，我们大脑疲惫时反而最具创造力。所以工作到疲惫并非坏事，去跑步、骑车直到精疲力竭，回来后再进行创意工作反而更好。我们的大脑在创造时状态最佳。

And so I I think one of the things is to figure out what type of human being you are, how you're best working, when you're best when you are at your most productive, ironically, in contrast to what people are taught. We are at our most creative when our brains are tired. So it's not a bad idea to work and get tired. It's not a bad idea to go for a run or a bicycle ride or something like that and get really tired and then come back and be creative. So our brains are best when we're creative.

这些都是宝贵经验。但本质上，我们是在高效工作时段与静默时段之间寻求平衡。我称之为'平衡中的成功'，我认为这是最理想的工作方式。

That's good information. But also, you know, we're just balancing between the work, the productive work periods and the silent periods, the quiet periods. It's a perfect I call it success with balance. I think it's a a perfect way of working.

说得太好了。那么直觉在这个过程中扮演什么角色呢？

Love it. And how does intuition come into play?

直觉是最重要的。我此生很幸运，能陪伴在我母亲、已故妻子以及现在的杰斯身边。她们都拥有惊人的直觉。作为一个科学家、物理学家，我对这种机制充满好奇，总想弄明白其中的原理。

So it's the most important thing. I'm very lucky in my life because I got to, you know, hang around my mom, my late wife, and now Jess. And they all had incredible intuition. And I was fascinated by being a scientist, being a physicist. I wanted to know how and why does that work.

人怎么能凭空知道某些事？我始终无法理解。记得琳恩常说：'别和那个人合作，他不靠谱。'我问她怎么知道的...

How do you just know something? I couldn't get it. And they so I remember with Lynn, she would say, don't work with that guy. He's bad news. I say, well, how'd you know?

他从未见过面。我认识他。你怎么知道的？但她每次都是对的。每次都让我损失一大笔钱。

He never met. I know him. How'd you know? But she was right every single time. It cost me a fortune every single time.

我会问，你是怎么知道的？她会说，嗯，就是知道。我想弄明白这‘就是知道’是怎么回事。于是，作为一名科学家，我想从科学角度理解它。我发现，当我们认识到万物皆是能量，并漂浮在如今所称的希格斯场中时。

And I would say, how did you know? And she'd say, well, just know. And I wanted to understand what is just know about. And so, I wanted to understand it as a scientist. So as a scientist, I figured out that when we allow ourselves to understand that everything's energy and float in what we now know is called the Higgs field.

对吧？这个场是以发现者命名的。我们漂浮在希格斯场中，能与任何事物任何人建立连接，这赋予我们类似超能力的‘就是知道’。比如前几天，几周前吧，我醒来就说我要卖掉这家公司，我就是知道该这么做。

Right? So it's named after the the discoverer. So we float in the Higgs field. We can connect with anything and anyone, and it gives us this, like, superpower that we just know. So, like, the other day, like, a couple weeks ago, I woke up and I said, I'm selling this company, and I just know.

杰丝说，好啊。行吧。她也知道。行。

And Jess says, yeah. Okay. Fine. She knew too. Fine.

很好。去吧。去做吧。于是我们做了，事情就办成了。所以你就是会知道。

Good. Go. Do it. And so we did it, and and it was done. And so you just know.

关键就在于达到那种‘就是知道’的状态。我认为如今直觉比以往任何时候都更普遍。以前有两种能量形态——我们需要给这些能量贴标签才能理解它们。过去是线性能量。

And so it's getting to that just knowing. So intuition is more prevalent I think today than it ever was. I think previously, so there was like two energies. So there was, we have to give labels to these energies to understand them. So previously there was a linear energy.

就像剪贴板那样逐步推进的思维模式。我们称之为男性特质。这种男性特质始于12月，结束于2014年2月。现在已转变为这种螺旋上升的能量，我们称之为女性特质。

It was like a clipboard, step by step mentality. We called it masculine. Masculinity started in December. It finished in 02/2014, I think. And then now it's switched to this spiraling energy, which we call feminine.

而且速度极快，就像龙卷风一样。它倾泻、旋转、旋转、再旋转。因此，作为企业家，我不得不彻底改变自己的行为方式，因为以前我更像是一个监督者，你知道的，掌控一切的那种。

And it's fast. It's like a tornado. It spills. It spins, spins, spins. And so we as as an entrepreneur, I've had to completely change the way I behave as an entrepreneur because previously, I was very much a supervisor, you know, very much in charge.

你知道，这是我的工作，我是老板类型的人。但现在我信任每个人，我是同事而非老板。嗯。这种转变至关重要。

You know, it's my job. I'm the boss type of thing. And now I trust everybody, and I'm a colleague, not a boss. Mhmm. And it's so important to make that change.

我认为很多人还没有完成这种转变，我看到他们不断失败，因为他们仍在扮演老板、监督者的角色。现在你需要以同事的姿态行事——信任、理解、在场。所以我改变了，我学会了根据能量调整我的创业技能，这正是我现在目睹的转变。我们正处于一种螺旋能量中，在这种能量里，你要么融入要么出局。

I think I think a lot of people haven't made that switch yet, and I see people failing all the time because they're still behaving like the boss, the supervisor, and you need to behave like the colleague now. You need to trust, understand, be present. So I've changed. I have I have learned to change, my my entrepreneurial skills according to the energy, And that's what I'm seeing happening right now. So we're we're very much a spiraling energy, which in a spiraling energy, you're in or you're not.

你没有第二次机会。这是很多人不明白的。当我说女性能量时，他们会想'哦真温馨'。不。

You don't get a second chance. So this is something a lot of people don't understand. So when I say feminine energy, they think, oh, that's nice. It's so nurturing. No.

并非如此。它是残酷的，一种无情的能量。历史上，在十二月之前，世界上的战士和指挥官都是女性。人类学是我热衷的话题。

It's not. It's cruel. It's a cruel energy. They do not stop to pick up their, so back in time, before December, all the warriors in the world were female, and the commanders were female. And so anthropology is a big, fun topic for me.

在那个时代，她们不会停下来收殓阵亡者，也不会俘虏敌人，因为俘虏会消耗资源。她们是养育者，这就是我们的本质。如果你死了，那就是死了。

So back in time, they didn't stop to pick up their their casualties, and they did not stop to take prisoners because prisoners use up resources. They were nurturers. So this is us. This is where we are. If you die, you die.

如果你是敌方一员被遗弃，就会被彻底遗弃。那是种非常冷酷无情的能量，人们不理解这点。事实上他们不喜欢我这样描述。但我欣赏这种方式——我看到现在众多企业由女性CEO接管，她们绝不留情。

If you if you if you're part of the enemy and you get left behind, you get left behind. That would that was it was very much a cold. It's a cold hearted energy, and people don't understand that. And they actually don't like me talking about it this way. I like it because what I'm seeing is all of these businesses now being taken over by female CEOs, and they do not take prisoners.

因此我注意到，当我坐在谈判桌上时——过去那就像一场自尊心的较量，我和对方针锋相对，试图得分等等。但现在对面坐着一位女性，她直接问：'你要还是不要？' '好的，我要了，谢谢。'

And so I'm noticing when I'm on the negotiation table, which previously, it would be like an ego battle, me against a guy and trying to score points and all the rest of it. Now on the other side, there's a female, and she says, do you want it or not? Yeah. I'll take it. Thank you.

'我要了。好的。价格是多少？成交。'

I'll have it. Yeah. Yeah. What what's the price? Yes.

很好。太棒了。整个氛围完全不同了。由于能量运转的变化，整个世界都改变了，我太喜欢这种转变了。

Fine. Good. Good. And and and it's totally different. The whole world has changed as a result of the spinning of the of the energy, and I I love that.

我热爱探讨这个话题。但人们还没准备好接受它。我不确定你的听众是否准备好听这些——他们或许不喜欢我说这是种冷酷的能量，但我确实感受到了。我的商业风格已经改变，我的企业也随之转型。

I love talking about it. People aren't ready for it yet. I don't know if your audience is ready to hear this yet. They might not like me saying that it's a cold hearted energy, but but it but I'm finding it, and my business is my style has changed. My businesses have changed.

是的，这是个全新的世界。我热爱这个崭新的事实，你必须改变，对吧？

Yeah. It's a whole new world, and I love the fact that it's a whole new world. I love it. I you have to change. Right?

每个人都必须改变。我正带着愧疚感在转变。嘿，不，不是这样。

Everyone has to change. I'm spinning with guilty. Yeah. Hey. Nope.

你比我更清楚这点，因为我能从你眼中看出来。所以我说的这些你早就知道，但希望我的分享能让听众从另一个角度理解——因为在当下，如果你不融入这种能量，作为企业家你就出局了。我不断见证着优秀企业家们的蜕变。

You know this more than I do because I can see it in your eyes. So so you I'm I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, but hopefully, me saying it will help your audience hear it from another perspective because because it it really, today, if you're not in this energy, you're left behind. As an entrepreneur, you're done. And I'm seeing it all the time. I'm seeing great entrepreneurs spin.

嗯，就像埃隆·马斯克那样。伟大的企业家不断涌现，而我看到真正优秀的企业家因为无法快速适应而被淘汰。

Mhmm. Like Elon Musk. And it was great entrepreneurs spinning. And I see really good entrepreneurs being left behind because they can't change fast enough.

你提到的一点是，当直觉正确时，你可以进入你称之为'蛋'的状态？进入那种状态。你是怎么进入的？或者说，你如何连接你的直觉，以便能够触及那种状态或能量？

And one of the things that you mentioned is that when your intuition is right, you can go into the do you call it the eggs? Into the eggs. So you can kind of go into that. How do you get into that? Or how do you, I guess, connect your intuition so you are able to connect to that or the energy as well?

所以这一切都是通过——我们必须换个角度思考这个问题。好问题，苏米特。宇宙万物皆由能量构成，这意味着一切都是由费米子和玻色子组成的，它们是两种基本构建单元。

So so it's all done by so we have to so think of this think of this in a different way. Okay. So great question, Sumit. So everything in the universe is made of energy, and that means that everything's made of Fermions and Bosons. There's the they're the two building blocks.

除此之外别无他物。当我们思考这一点时，还必须意识到我们自身也是由费米子和玻色子构成的，因此我们完全是一种幻象。嗯，我们并不真实存在，对吧？

There's nothing else. When you when we think about that, we have to also realize that we're made of Fermions and Bosons, and therefore, we're a complete illusion. Mhmm. We don't exist. Right?

你不存在，我也不存在。我们创造了自我形象和自我意识，让我看起来是这样——可惜有了灰发，至少我还有头发。而你看起来是那样。

You don't exist. I don't exist. We've created this image of ourselves and this consciousness of ourselves that makes me look like this, unfortunately, the gray hair. At least I have hair. And you look like that.

对吧？是的，所以一切都是幻象。如果我们试图穿透彼此的手，实际上我们都不存在。费米子和玻色子就是全部的存在。

Right? Yeah. So so it's all an illusion. But if we were to put our hands through each other, neither of us would actually exist. So fermions and bosons are just all that is.

这台电脑、这个柜台、这把椅子、这张沙发，全是我为体验三维五感生命而创造的幻象。这是我选择的人生——我选择来到这里这样做，选择此生如此体验。我对此感到非常快乐，我想我们会怀念这种体验。当我们离开时，我想确实会怀念它。

So this computer, this counter, this chair, this sofa is all an illusion that I have created in order to experience a three-dimensional five sensory experience of life, and that's what I chose. I chose to come here to do that. I chose to come to this life to do that. And I'm very happy about it, and I think we miss it. I think when we leave, I think we do miss it.

它非常美丽，非常具象化。我们怀念那种情感，怀念那种实体感，但这都是一种幻觉。当我们明白这一切都是幻觉时，作为三维五感生物，我们就有力量去体验不同的经历。

It's very beautiful. It's very physical. We miss the emotion. We miss the physicality, but it is an illusion. And so when we understand that it's all an illusion, it gives us the power as a three-dimensional five sensory being to have a different experience.

所以我们可以说，好吧。我正在经历这种实体体验，这种五感体验，但我实际上想要更多、不同的东西，或者更少。这都不重要，没有对错之分。

So we can say, well, okay. I'm having this physical experience. I'm having this five sensory experience, but I'd actually like to have something more, something different, or less. Doesn't matter. There's no judgment.

我想要一个稍微不同的体验。我们通过决定来实现这一点，我们知道希格斯场存在，它将一切连接在一起。所以我可以将自己推入希格斯场。如果我们有工具和技术——在转变体验中我们确实拥有这些——那么我们就可以利用这些工具和技术将自己推入希格斯场，并说，我要为自己吸引一个不同的体验？嗯。

I would like to have a slightly different experience. And we do that by then deciding, okay, we know the Higgs field exists, and it connects everything to everything. So I can push myself out into the Higgs field. If I have tools and techniques, which we have in the transformation experience, so we can I we we use these tools and techniques to push ourselves under the Higgs field and say, I'm gonna draw to me a different experience? Mhmm.

它可以是任何东西。对吧？可以是拥有一辆超级跑车，可以是在事业上取得成功，可以是拥有一段美好的关系，无论是什么，我们都会将其吸引到自己身边。

And it could be anything. Right? It could be owning a supercar. It could be being successful in a business. It could be having a great relationship, whatever it is, but we're gonna draw it to ourselves.

我们实现这一点的方式是通过发挥想象力，向前推进并思考，成功后的第一天感觉如何？所以，像吸引力法则这样的东西会让你向前推进，想象成功。

And the way we do it is by taking our imaginations and pushing it forward and saying, okay. What does the day after feel like? So so we'll push for so so what you get with things like law of attraction is, like, push forward, imagine success.

嗯。

Mhmm.

那都是胡扯。根本没用。所以你要向前推进，思考成功后的第一天是什么感觉？我今天在做什么？

That's nonsense. It doesn't work. So so you push forward and you say, okay. What's the day after success feels like? What am I doing today?

然后你将其吸引至自身。通过持续吸引未来的日子，你实际上是在吸引创造那个未来的力量。这是个巨大的秘密，也是我们在蜕变体验中传授的核心——就像突破希格斯场，直接抵达未来，比如特雷弗·布莱克功成名就后的某一天，或是辛巴达成心愿后的生活片段。

And then you draw that to yourself. And then by drawing the day after to yourself, you draw the thing that created the day after to yourself. And that's a huge secret. And that's what we teach in transformation experience. It's like, push through the Higgs field, go to the day after, like a day in the life of Trevor Blake or the day in life of Simba after he achieves what he wanted.

那会是怎样的感觉？你打算做些什么？我用三个简单步骤来阐述这个原理，因为我说：好吧，我先想象。

What does that feel like? What are you gonna do? And so in three simple steps, I talk about that because I said, well, okay. I imagined. Okay.

这事即将发生。当那一刻来临，我会如何应对？每个人都有自己的答案对吧？或许有人梦想登月。

This is gonna happen. When that happens, what am I gonna do? And everyone has their own thing. Right? Some someone might want to fly to the moon.

有人渴望米其林大餐，有人追求其他事物。对我来说，成功后的第一天只想整天穿着睡衣——这就是我的全部愿望。就像我卖掉第一家公司时，真的整天都穿着睡衣。

Someone might want a great restaurant meal. Someone might want something else. The day after for me, I just wanted to spend a whole day in pajamas. That was that was it for me. It's like when I when I sell my first company, I'm gonna spend all day in pajamas.

我预先设想过那种感觉。后来成真时，我正在飞机上。那笔交易原本看似无望，但起飞后没有手机信号。

And I imagined what that felt like. And then it happened. I got on a plane. The deal was like like like, it doesn't look like it's gonna happen. But I got on a plane, and I didn't have cell phone connection.

飞机降落后收到短信：恭喜，交易完成。于是我穿着睡衣度过了24小时，太美妙了对吧？

The plane arrived where I was going, and then I got a text, and it said, congratulations. Deal is done. And so I put my pajamas on for twenty four hours. That was great. Right?

这就是我的想象与实现。具体形式不重要，你可以随心所欲，与任何你想共度的人一起。

That's what I imagined. That's what I did. It's fine. It doesn't matter what it is. Do whatever you want and with with with whomever you want.

但对我来说，这才是大事。所以我穿着睡衣度过了二十四小时，穿着睡衣和拖鞋去了一家五星级意大利餐厅。

But that for me, that was the big deal. So so I I spent twenty four hours in pajamas, went to a five star Italian restaurant in pajamas and slippers.

然后，

And,

我说，这太棒了。这就是我想要的，只因为我可以这么做，对吧？我努力让这一切成真，现在它实现了。

and I said, that's great. This is what I just because I can. Right? I've I've worked to make this happen. It's happened.

我正在这么做。就这样，没人质疑我。甚至没有一个人问，你为什么穿睡衣？一个都没有。

I'm doing it. And that was it. And no one questioned me. I didn't have there wasn't a single person said, what are doing in pajamas? Not one person.

感觉棒极了。总之，你要做的就是想象事情发生后的那一天。想象一下，好吧。

And it was great. So anyway. So you do your so that's what you do. So you imagine the day after it happens. So you imagine, okay.

这就是我想要的，无论是什么。我在一段关系中做到了。林恩去世后，我经历了大约十八个月的哀伤期，我意识到独自一人很糟糕。所以我渴望与一个能激励我今天比昨天更好的人在一起。这就是我的想象。

This is what I want, whatever it is. I did it with a relationship. So I was in the grieving period for, like, eighteen months after Lynn died, and I decided being on my own sucked. And so I am mad being with someone who inspired me to be a better person today than I was yesterday. And that's what I imagined.

比如，好吧，会有人牵我的手。我怀念牵手的感觉，真的很怀念。我说，我想牵手，想有人教我新事物，想有人让我今天比昨天感觉更好。然后第二天晚上，我走进一家餐厅，遇见了杰西。

Like, okay, someone's gonna hold my hand. I miss holding hands. I I really miss holding hands. And I say, I wanna hold hands, and I want someone to teach me new stuff, and I want someone to make me feel better today than I did yesterday. And then the next night, I walk into a restaurant, and there's Jess.

我走上前，看到杰西在那儿。然后杰西说了句：老兄，你谁啊？接着我们坐下来共进晚餐，大概六点入座，凌晨三点才被店家请出门。我们聊个不停，从那时起就再没停过。她教会了我各种新鲜事物。

And I walk up, and there's Jess. And then and then Jess kinda said, dude, the hell are you? And then we sat down, and we had dinner, and we we I think we sat down about six, and they threw us out at three in the morning. And we just talked, we've never stopped talking since. And she's taught me all kinds of new stuff.

对吧？她教我跳舞，跳摇摆舞。教我玩滑板，这些我从未想过自己会做的事。但我现在都在做，因为我会想象那种感觉——成为被激励去尝试新事物的人会是什么体验？

Right? She's taught me to dance, to do swing dancing. She's taught me skateboarding, all these kind of things that I would never imagine doing myself. But I'm doing it because I imagine what it would be like. What would it be like to be that person who's being inspired to do new things?

这就是它的运作方式。很简单，老实说需要些练习。你看我都练了几十年了，确实需要练习。但这些工具和技巧是纯粹的科学，效果立竿见影。

And and that's how it works. It's very simple. It takes some it takes some practice, to be honest with you. It takes you know, I'm I'm obviously been practicing for a number of decades, but it takes some practice. But the tools and techniques are pure science, and they work perfectly.

太棒了。我在想有些听众可能会找借口，比如：我年纪大了/学历不够。他们有一堆理由觉得事情成不了，听到你的方法时会想：不可能这么简单。记得你是42岁创办第一家公司对吗？

Love it. And I'm just thinking of some of our listeners that might have like an excuse to be like, well, maybe I'm not as young as I used to be. I don't have the education. And they've got all these reasons why things may not work out and they're hearing your tool, they're like, It can't be that simple. I believe you started your first company at 42, is that correct?

没错。能否简单介绍你创立并退出的五家公司？这样大家能更清楚理解你使用的这些工具——看看你实际取得的成就。

Yep. And so maybe just give us a overview of the five companies that you have started and exited so people can also contextualize these tools that you are using to be like, okay, this is actually what you've been able to accomplish.

年龄不重要，时间也不重要。我的第一家公司至今还在运营，网上能搜到——Qual Medical，生活质量医疗公司。

So age is irrelevant, right? Time is irrelevant. So my first company is still in existence. It's still you can still search on the Internet. It's called Qual Medical, quality of life medical.

以5700万美元卖出，相当于现在的1.05亿。第二家ANU卖了3亿。第三家是TLC。

Sold that for 57,000,000. That's like, 105,000,000. 105,000,000. Second company was ANU, a n u, and I sold that for 300,000,000. Third company was TLC.

我们仍然不能——我实际上不被允许透露具体价格，但这是保密的，而且是一个多层次的结构。大多数这类交易都是这样，你知道的，你不会一次性拿到所有钱。比如，先拿到这部分首付款，然后如果达到某个条件，再获得后续款项。它们都设有某种里程碑式的支付节点。所以我现在的NeoVia Oncology项目（我仍持有股份）就是如此。

We still haven't I'm not allowed to actually say what the price is, but it's undisclosed, and it's a multilevel thing. Most of these deals are, you know, you don't get all the money right there. It's like, you get this much up front, and then if this happens, then it's like, this happens. They're all they're all they all have kind of milestones. So our new NeoVia Oncology which I still have.

刚出售的Trevorgblake.com网站——Trevorgblake.com有限责任公司。我是在Ship平台上完成交易的。但我并没有完全退出，仍然深度参与，只是需要更年轻的营销团队来接手。

Trevorgblake.com which I just sold. Trevorgblake.comllc. I just sold on the ship. And I'm not leaving it. I'm fully involved, but I needed more I needed a younger marketing presence.

我...我年纪太大了，已经搞不懂数字营销了，所以需要更年轻的人来运营。于是卖给了一位曾参加我智囊团的成员，他说要把它提升到新高度。好吧，那就交给你了。

I I'm too old. I don't understand digital marketing anymore, so I needed someone who's younger. So I sold it to someone who is a member or or was a member of my mastermind who says, oh, I'm gonna take this to the next level. So, okay. Take it.

冲吧。冲啊。全力以赴。所有这些项目都是这样。

Go. Go. Go. Go. So all of these things.

还有Von Blake家族产业。另外我显然还出版过两本书和三个电影剧本——多数人不知道这些剧本，但它们取得了巨大成功，甚至赢得过奥斯卡奖。所有这些成就就像打着漂亮蝴蝶结的礼盒，向世人宣告：看啊，按世俗标准这家伙算是成功了，对吧？

House of Von Blake. And also, I have, obviously, two books and three screenplays. And most people don't know about the screenplays, so I have three screenplays that are hugely successful and won won an Oscar. And all of that wrapped in a package with a bow, a pretty bow, says this guy is successful by the way people judge success. Right?

但对我而言，感觉事业才刚刚起步。当我和杰西一起读埃隆·马斯克的传记时，不禁自问：我们这些年都在干什么？简直虚度光阴。人家成就如此辉煌，我们必须加快步伐迎头赶上。

For me, I don't feel I've even started yet. And so when I read the biography, like Elon Musk's biography, and and Jess and I read it together, and we said, what have we been doing? We've been wasting our life. This guy's done so much, so we need to get on. We need to go on so on.

所以我们现在正迈向新阶段。我想你之所以问这个问题，是因为我42岁才创立第一家公司——对很多人来说这年纪偏大。但事实上这恰逢其时：首次创业的平均年龄是43岁，而首次成为亿万富翁的平均年龄是63岁。

So so we are we are moving on to the next level. I I think the reason you asked the question was that so I started my first company when I was 42, and to a lot of people, that seems old. And, actually, that's bang on the age. So the average age of a first time entrepreneur is 43. The average age of a first time billionaire is 63.

嗯。所以大家都有时间。在转型经历中，我们遇到一个13岁的女孩，我不知道她是如何找到《三步曲》这本书的。可能是在垃圾堆里捡到的吧。但我真希望她能发现它。

Mhmm. So everybody has time. In the transformation experience, we have a 13 year old girl who I don't know how she found three simple steps to the book. I think it might have been in a dumpster or something. But I wish I wish she found it.

她原本只想跳舞，却被迫在血汗工厂打工。不知怎的，这本书激励她反抗父母离家追梦。如今她已成为伦敦皇家芭蕾舞团的首席舞者——这就是成功，对吧？

She just wanted to dance, but she was working in a sweatshop. And somehow, the book gave her the inspiration to fight her parents and to leave and to go to dance. And now she's the lead ballerina at the Royal Ballet in London. That's a success. Right?

哇。三年前我收到一封邮件，开头就写着'布莱克先生，我恨你'。原来这位厌恶自助书籍的先生，被人送了本《三步曲》。

Wow. In so three years ago, I got an email from a guy who's and the email started out. It says, mister Blake, I hate you. And and the reason he hated me was he doesn't like self help. And somebody had bought him three simple steps.

不清楚具体缘由。他说'首先我拆不开包装——87岁的老头子没这本事。后来终于打开才发现是本励志书，差点扔进垃圾桶，但某个细节吸引了我'。

I don't know why or how or anything. And he said, first of all, I couldn't open the package. I don't have my I I'm 87 years old, and I can't open the package. But he said, I finally opened the package. I realized it's a cell phone book.

'读到关于你母亲的故事后...总之，87岁的我创办了人生第一家公司'。如今他93岁了，我们保持密切往来，我还投资了他的事业。这家出色的公司将让与他疏远的家人在他离世后永享福荫。

I'm about to throw it in the trash can, but something caught my eye. I opened it up. I read about your mother and all of And he says, so, anyway, I'm starting my first company at 87. And he started his first company. Now he's 93, and and and I'm close to him, you know, invested in him and all the rest of it.

我们导师团队有位了不起的女性克莉丝汀·莱利，加入trevorgblake.com时毫无方向。她说'想自己当老板，但毫无头绪'。

And he has a beautiful company that will keep his family, who he's estranged from, happy in his memory for the rest of the days. So he's started this great company. He's doing a fantastic thing. We had a beautiful woman called Kirsty Riley, part of our mastermind at trevorgblake.com, and she she arrived with us with no clue. She said, I want to be my own boss, but I don't have an idea.

我告诉她'我可以教你如何萌生创意'，我们有一套发掘人生方向的工具。她执行得极其出色，展现出超乎寻常的纪律性与专注力。

And I said, okay. I can teach you how to how to have an idea. We have a group of tools to how do you find how do you find what you're gonna do? And, she did that, and she did it really well. And she was very disciplined and very dedicated, which is not as common as people think.

她想出了一个主意，那是个绝妙的主意，并付诸实践。我们通过智囊团提供了资金，她大概几个月前刚启动，效果非常棒。能参与这样的事情简直像魔法一样神奇。就像有人从‘我甚至不知道自己想当老板’到‘我受够了在这个世界打工’的转变。

And she came up with an idea, it was a brilliant idea, and she set it up. And we funded it through the mastermind, and she just launched, I think, a couple of months ago, and it's just beautiful. And it's it's it's magic to be part of stuff like that. Like, someone went from I don't even I wanna be my own boss. I'm fed up of working in this world.

我想做自己的事。我相信自己，然后从那个阶段发展到真正创办了一家公司，我们所有人都以集体形式提供了资金。所以不只是我，我牵头筹资，但整个智囊团都参与进来，这里投点钱，那里投点钱，四面八方都有资金注入。现在她拥有了这家了不起的公司，做得非常成功。

I want to do my own thing. I believe in myself, and then and and go from that to then starting an actual company that we all funded as a group. So it wasn't just me. I led the funding, but, like, the whole mastermind jumped in and, you know, dollars from here, dollars from there, dollars from everywhere. And so she now has this amazing company and is doing really well.

我为此感到非常自豪。我认为事情本该如此。我们不应该只是教学，不应该只是讲课，我们应该引领潮流。

And I'm very proud of that. I think this is I think this is the way it's supposed to be. Like, we're not supposed to just be teaching. We're not supposed to be just lecturing. We're supposed to be leading.

这正是我喜欢做的。我喜欢引领。这些都是我生命中非常自豪的时刻。当然不是唯一的，也有不太成功的，还有更成功的，但这些例子很好地展示了当一群人带着正确的工具和技巧聚集在一起，懂得如何以不同的方式运用能量时，会发生什么。

And that that's what I like to do. I like to lead. And so, these are all very proud moments of my life. Not they're not the only ones, and there's been less successful ones. There's been even more successful ones, but I think these are really good examples of what can happen when a group of people come together with the right tools and techniques and understand how to play with energy in a different way.

在你开始总结时，请问每个人都能成为企业家吗？听着你的故事，可能有些人会想，哦，企业家，这与我无关，或者我永远不可能成为那样。任何人都能成为企业家吗？

And as you start kind of wrapping things up, can everyone be an entrepreneur? So as people are hearing your story, I think some people are like, oh, an entrepreneur. It doesn't apply to me, or that can never be me. Can anyone be an entrepreneur?

当然，每个人都可以。成为企业家只需要你看到某个尚未解决的问题，并决定去解决它。我从未见过哪个企业家一开始就立志要成为企业家。我认识的每一个成功的企业家都说，我没想到事情会变成这样。

Absolutely, everybody. And all you need to be an entrepreneur is to see something that hasn't been fixed and you decide to fix it. I've never met an entrepreneur that set out to be an entrepreneur. I've oh, successful one. I've everyone I've everyone I've known has said, well, I didn't know this was gonna happen.

我只是想解决这个问题，既然没人管，那我就自己来。嘿，像理查德·布兰森、尼尔·穆克斯这些人，他们最初也没打算当企业家。只是遇到了问题。理查德·布兰森的故事是我最喜欢的之一，因为这家伙最初是被本能驱使着行动的。

I I wanted to fix this, and no one else is fixing it, so I fixed it. Hey. Richard Bransons of the world, Neil Mooks, they they didn't set out to be entrepreneurs. They just there was an issue. So Richard Bransons is one of my favorite stories because the the guy was being led by his private parts.

对吧？当时他爱上了一个女人，却因为航班取消错过了约会。他说，她肯定会离开我的。我想娶这个女人，她会以为我故意放她鸽子——那还是互联网和手机都不普及的年代。于是他包了架飞机飞到岛上，这后来就成了维珍大西洋航空。

Right? So he was he he was in love with a woman, and and he was missing the appointment because the flight was canceled. And he says, I'm she's gonna leave me. She I want to marry this woman, and she's gonna think I've jilted her and day be this would be were the days before Internet and cell phones and stuff. So he chartered a plane and flew to the island, and that became Virgin Atlantic.

他创立维珍大西洋并非蓄谋已久。他没有说'我有个绝妙点子，都写在餐巾纸背面了，这绝对能成'。他只是想解决问题，而他的问题是'她要离开我了'。

He didn't set out to create Virgin Atlantic. He didn't say, I've got this great idea. I've got it written out on the back of a napkin. This is gonna be brilliant. He was just trying to solve a problem, and the problem for him was, she's gonna leave me.

最后他确实娶到了她。飞机降落后，乘客们下机时说'这飞机挺不错，就是把餐食改进下就更好了'。他说'既然我有架飞机'——维珍大西洋就这么诞生了。说实话，包括我自己在内，我从未见过有人...

And and he got he ended up marrying her. And and then, you know, he the plane lands, and and people got off the plane and said, this is a pretty good plane if you just sort out the food. He said, well, I've a plane. So that's how Virgin Atlantic starts. I mean, you I've never met anybody, and I'm included in that.

我从未立志要成为企业家。我只是不断发现'这个需要改进'。我曾三次去找CEO上司说：听着，我有解决方案。而他总说'不行'。

I've I've never set out to be an entrepreneur ever. I've just said, this needs fixing. And I went to my boss three times, the CEO, and I said, look. I've got the solution for this. And he said, you're not no.

不，我们不做这个。资金不足。第二次我说'我会提交董事会讨论'。

No. We're not doing it. We don't have the money. And then the second time, I'll take it to the board. I'll talk with the board and see what they think.

回来后依然被拒。我怀疑他根本没汇报。第三次我提到重要航线时，直接说'我辞职'。

And I came back, no. And I don't think he did. I think he lied to me. And then the third time, I said, oh, we had a big route. And the third time, I said, I'm off.

我走了，我要自己干。他说'特雷弗你不行，而且我们不会授权'。结果三个月后他们急需资金，我就基于这些创立了自己的公司。

I'm gone. I'm gonna do it myself. He said, Trevor, you're not capable, and also, we're not giving you the rights. And then, I don't know, three months later, they needed the money. And I started my own company based on all of that.

嗯，我无法预知未来。我不能说这是个好主意，或者你知道，对此有个完美计划。我只是想修复一些需要被解决的问题。我为此感到非常自豪——非常自豪，因为今天有孩子得以存活，若非我解决了这个问题，他们可能已经不在了，这让我无比骄傲。

Well, I couldn't plan that. I couldn't say that this was a good idea or that this you know, that there's a perfect plan for this. It just I just wanted to fix something that needed to be fixed. And I'm very proud of my I'm very proud of fixing that. Very proud of it because children are alive today that wouldn't be alive if I hadn't fixed it, and I'm very proud of that.

我不介意说出来。他当时觉得我是个傻瓜。几年后，我收到一条短信，发信人说：猜猜谁坐在我对面？他叫约翰。猜猜谁坐在我对面？正是约翰·布利昂。他说：我刚告诉他你公司卖了多少钱，他当场被三明治噎住了。

Don't mind saying it. And he thought I was an idiot. Anyway, several years later, I got a text from a guy who said, guess who's sitting opposite me? His name was John Guess who's sitting opposite me, and it was John Bullion. And he said, I've just told him what you sold the company for, and he's just choked on his sandwich.

所以这很棒，对吧？你解决问题并成功了，这就很好。非常棒。

So it's great. Right? So you fix something and it works, and you're good. You're good.

这个世界的美好之处在于，有太多需要被修复的事物。所以机会无处不在。

And the beautiful thing about the world is there's a lot of things that need to be fixed. So opportunities are everywhere.

没有限制。完全没有限制。但你不必独自摸索，有工具和方法能帮你理清思路。创业并非适合所有人。

There's no limit. There's no limit. But you don't need to figure it out. There's tools and techniques that can help you figure it out. Being an entrepreneur is not for everybody.

许多人是疗愈师、能量直觉者这类角色，却不认为自己是企业家。正因如此，他们不考虑定价模式，不思考如何评估自身时间价值，因为他们觉得这是神圣天赋，收费似乎...是的，为神圣天赋收费似乎不妥。我们在trevorgblake.com也致力于解决这个问题。

But a lot of people are healers and energy intuitives and all that sort but don't think of themselves as entrepreneurs. And so because of that, they don't think about the pricing model. They don't think about how to how to value their time because they feel like they have a divine gift, and it's wrong to yeah. It's it's wrong to charge for a divine gift. So we at trevorgblake.com, we work at that too.

你看，神圣天赋就是神圣天赋，但你需要从中获得合理收入。我们可以设计独特的商业模式，在其他地方找不到的方案。不必从零开始想着'我要解决这个问题'就完事了。无论是健康诊疗、教学实践还是人生指导，都能找到匹配你技能和世界贡献的商业模式，不该因自认拥有神圣天赋就贬低其价值。

Like, you know, a divine gift is a divine gift, and you need to earn a proper income from it. So there's business models we can we can figure out a way to make stuff work that's, you know, you won't find it in other places. So it it's not that you have to start from scratch and say, I'm gonna fix this, and that's all there is. You can have, you know, a health practice or something or a teaching practice or a life coaching practice, and you can figure out a different business model that rewards you according to your skills and contribution to the world. And it shouldn't be diminished just because you think you have a divine gift.

这对我非常重要，是我所做工作的核心部分。

That's very important to me. Very big part of what I do.

太棒了。那么大家在哪里可以找到您呢？您有两本书，另一本应该是《成功创业的秘诀》。如果人们想了解更多关于您的信息或获取您的资源，他们可以去哪里找？

Amazing. And where can people find you? So there is your book, two books. The other one, I believe secrets to a successful startup. And if people want to learn more about you, access your resources, where can they find you?

所有信息都可以在我的网站Trevor g Blake dot com上找到。这个网站是由Jess设计的，我认为它非常精美，真正代表了我的风格，我为此感到非常自豪。因为她了解我，所以能以最合适的方式呈现。总之，访问Trevor g Blake dot com就能找到一切。

So I I mean, everything goes to the website, Trevor g Blake dot com. And the website was put together by Jess, and I think it's beautiful. It really represents me, and I'm very proud of it, but because she knows me and therefore put it together in the way it's supposed to be. So Trevor g Blake dot com. You can find everything.

我的书籍和其他所有内容都在上面。谢谢你的询问。

The books and everything is on there. And thank you for asking.

如果有一条信息，一条您想与地球上每个人分享的最终信息，那会是什么？

And if there was one message, one final message you could share with every single human being on this planet, what would that be?

重塑自我永远不嫌晚，永远都不晚。我认为很多人存在的问题是他们觉得‘哦，我已经错过机会了’。不，绝对不是这样。

It's never too late to invent yourself or reinvent yourself. It's never too late. And I think that's a problem for a lot of people is they think, oh, it's passed me by. No. No.

重新找回五岁时的自己，永远为时不晚。

It's never too late to find your five year old self again.

太棒了。谢谢你，特雷弗·布莱克。能和你聊聊你的故事、不同视角、你使用过的工具以及你的成功，真是非常愉快。这是一次非常精彩的访谈，非常感谢你能来参加。

Beautiful. Thank you, Trevor Blake. It was such a pleasure talking to you about your story, different perspectives, the tools that you have used, your success. This was a very amazing interview, and I'm so grateful to have you here.

谢谢，辛巴。我真的很享受这次访谈，问题也提得非常棒。非常感谢。希望这些内容能对某处的某个人有所帮助。就这样。

Thanks, Simba. I really enjoyed it, and fantastic questions. Thank you so much. I hope it's useful to somebody somewhere. That's it.

我只是希望如此。

I just hope.

肯定会的。

Definitely will be.

感谢您的收听。请继续收听我们的其他节目，以增强您的思维。

Thank you for tuning in. Continue strengthening your mind by listening to our other episodes.