618. 伊丽莎白一世：塔楼的阴影（第三部分）

她怀疑伊丽莎白与法国人勾结。

She suspects her of being in league with the French.

对玛丽来说，似乎有各种充分的理由。

There are all kinds of good reasons, it seems, to Mary.

但她的顾问们会说，这将是一个非常、非常糟糕的主意。

But her her canst to say this would be a really, really bad idea.

正如其中一位所言，既然议会已承认伊丽莎白女士是合法继承人，若剥夺她宣称的权利而不引发动乱将十分困难。

So as one of them puts it, since parliament had accepted the lady Elizabeth as proper to succeed, it would be difficult to deprive her of the right she claimed without causing trouble.

他所说的动乱指的是什么？

And what does he mean by trouble?

嗯，要知道，那里有两千名骑兵。

Well, there are those, you know, 2,000 horsemen.

还有伊丽莎白是本国第二大土地所有者的事实。

There's the fact that Elizabeth is the second largest landowner in the country.

基本建议就是：别惊动睡着的狗（别无事生非）。

Let sleeping dogs lie is basically the advice.

玛丽确实这么做了，但她当然仍对伊丽莎白心存疑虑。

So Mary does, but, of course, she remains very suspicious of her.

尤其因为与菲利普的婚姻由于我们之前提到的原因而不得人心。

And all the more so because the marriage with Philip is unpopular for the reasons that we've been saying.

而且，你知道，她担心伊丽莎白可能会制造麻烦。

And, you know, she's nervous about whether Elizabeth might be kind of causing trouble.

因此到了十二月，伊丽莎白意识到自己完全不受玛丽待见，于是决定离开伦敦，退出宫廷，回到哈特菲尔德并隐居于此。

So Elizabeth, by December, is aware that she is really not flavor of the month with Mary, and so she decides to withdraw from London, withdraw from the court, and she goes back to Hatfield and hunkers down there.

就在她采取这些行动的同时，在首都各处密室、英格兰南部乃至中部地区，阴谋者们正开始策划叛乱。

And at the same time as she does this, in closed rooms across the capital, across the, the South Of England and into the Midlands, conspirators are starting to plot rebellion.

这些阴谋者的目标是废黜玛丽，让伊丽莎白取而代之。

And the object of these conspirators is to depose Mary and to replace her with Elizabeth.

这次阴谋以一位名叫托马斯·怀亚特的年轻勇猛骑士命名，他是将十四行诗引入英格兰之人的儿子。

And the man who gives his name to this plot is a kind of young dashing blade called sir Thomas Wyatt, the son of the man who introduced the sonnet into England.

他是一位经验非常丰富的军人。

He's a very experienced soldier.

他是一名新教徒，并且极度憎恶西班牙人，因为他的父亲除了将十四行诗引入英国外，还曾担任驻西班牙大使。

He's a Protestant, and he loathes the Spanish because his father, well as bringing the sonnet into England, had also been an ambassador to Spain.

因此年轻的托马斯曾在那里亲眼目睹宗教裁判所的所作所为，完全接受了西班牙是天主教暴君巢穴的观念。

And so the young Thomas had been there and had seen the inquisition doing its stuff and had had fully bought into the idea of of Spain as a kind of a nest of Catholic tyrants.

由于怀亚特是个风流倜傥、魅力十足的人物，所以人们都称这次叛乱为怀亚特叛乱。

And because he's a swashbuckling charismatic character, Wyatt, everyone calls this Wyatt's rebellion.

但实际上，某种程度上这也与简·格雷女士有关，对吧？

But, actually, it's kind of lady Jane Grey too, the seat, isn't it?

是的。

Yeah.

比如说，简·格雷女士的父亲，萨福克公爵，就参与其中。

So for example, lady Jane Grey's father, the duke of Suffolk, is involved with this.

还有很多人基本上在玛丽掌权后就被冷落了。

And there's lots of people who are basically they've found themselves out in the cold since Mary took over.

在某种程度上，这算是典型的都铎王朝派系斗争，对吧？

It's kind of your classic Tudor faction fight to some degree, isn't it?

是的。

Yes.

正如尼古拉·塔利斯在她关于年轻伊丽莎白的书中指出的那样，这些阴谋者都人脉广泛，且与伊丽莎白家族内部都有联系。

And as Nicola Talis in her book on young Elizabeth points out, the conspirators were all well connected, and they all had contacts within Elizabeth's household.

这将成为影响叛乱如何发展的关键因素。

And this will be a key issue in how this this rebellion plays out.

这些阴谋者——怀亚特及其同伙的计划，是在1554年棕枝主日那天在全国发动起义。

So the plan of these conspirators, Wyatt and his his coconspirators, is to raze the country on Palm Sunday, 1554.

怀亚特将在肯特郡起事。

Wyatt will raise Kent.

萨福克公爵将在中部地区起兵，西部郡县也计划发动起义，而意味深长的是赫特福德郡——伊丽莎白的大本营哈特菲尔德庄园所在地。

The duke of Suffolk will raise the Midlands, and the other uprisings are planned in the West Country and tellingly in Hertfordshire, is where Hatfield House, Elizabeth's base is.

但这个阴谋的消息在棕枝主日前很早就泄露了。

But news of, of this conspiracy leaks well, well before Palm Sunday.

棕枝主日是复活节前的那个星期日。

So Palm Sunday is the the Sunday before Easter.

早在1554年1月，关于这场阴谋的消息就已经开始传入玛丽女王的间谍耳中。

Already by January 1554, news of of what's being plotted is starting to, reach the ears of Mary's spies.

因此除了怀亚特在肯特郡的起义外，所有叛乱在真正爆发前就被镇压了。

And so all the uprisings are suppressed really before they can kick off except for one, and that is Wyatt's uprising in Kent.

他在那里集结了约3000人。

So there, he has raised about 3,000 men.

其中大部分是新教徒。

Most of them are Protestant.

他们向伦敦进军。

They march on London.

这让人强烈联想到农民起义。

It's very reminiscent of the Peasants' Revolt.

他们无法通过伦敦桥，于是南下金斯顿，迂回后试图从西城门进入伦敦。

They are unable to cross London Bridge, but they go down to Kingston, swing back, and try to enter London through, the Western Gates.

当叛军逼近时，玛丽女王被敦促撤离。

And as they're approaching, Mary is urged to flee.

但她没有逃跑，而是骑马前往市政厅，号召全城人民团结起来。

But instead, she rides to the guild hall, and she rallies the city.

她宣布自己与人民结为夫妻。

And she declares herself married to her people.

一位当时的目击者描述了她展现的表演，并对此深感震撼。

And a contemporary witness describes the performance she puts on and is very impressed.

‘那天的情景令人惊叹，女王展现出的无畏之心与坚定意志令人难以置信——她身为女性（通常被认为比男性更胆怯），却在危急时刻表现出超乎想象的英勇。’

More than marvel it was to see that day, the invincible heart and constancy of the queen herself, who being by nature a woman and therefore commonly more fearful than men be, showed herself in that case more stout than is credible.

这确实令人印象深刻。

That's impressive.

这非常...非常都铎王朝的风格。

And that's very that's very Tudor.

而且汤姆，这很像伊丽莎白一世在蒂尔伯里的表现。

And, Tom, it's very Elizabeth the first at Tilbury.

不是吗？

No?

这非常伊丽莎白一世。

It's very Elizabeth the first.

所以当你反复读到玛丽如何扮演女王角色时，是的。

And so again and again, when you read about how Mary kind of plays the role of a queen Yeah.

你会意识到她树立了一个榜样，我认为伊丽莎白肯定某种程度上记得。

You realize that she's providing a role model that Elizabeth, I think, undoubtedly kind of remembered.

这非常像蒂尔伯里的伊丽莎白。

It's very Elizabeth at Tilbury.

这是她一年内第二次这么做了。

It's the second time she's done this in in a year.

对吧？

Right?

我是说，她在简·格雷女士事件期间也这样做过。

I mean, she did it when during the lady Jane Grey business.

这基本上也是简·格雷女士事件。

This is lady Jane Grey too, basically.

是的。

Yeah.

民众又一次站在了她这边。

And once again, the people are with her.

确实如此。

They are.

没错。

Yeah.

他们集结起来支持玛丽。

They rally and support Mary.

怀亚特叛乱被镇压了。

Wyatt's rebellion is crushed.

玛丽本性善良，人们普遍认为她宽厚仁慈，但此刻她觉得自己别无选择，必须展现政府的铁腕手段。

And Mary, who I think naturally is kind hearted, she is widely thought to be of a merciful disposition, but she feels she has no choice now but to, you know, firm smack of government.

于是怀亚特被处决了。

So Wyatt is executed.

萨福克公爵被处决。

The duke of Suffolk is executed.

因为萨福克公爵是简·格雷夫人的父亲，这意味着简·格雷夫人也必须被处决。

Because the duke of Suffolk is, is lady Jane Grey's father, that means that lady Jane Grey has to be executed.

吉尔福德必须被处决。

Guildford has to be executed.

怀亚特的一百名追随者被绞死。

A 100 of Wyatt's followers are hanged.

在伦敦，帝国大使报告说，人们看到的只有绞刑架和被吊死的人。

And in London, the imperial ambassador reports one sees nothing but gibbets and hanged men.

哦，玛丽真是英明，不是吗？

Oh, Mary's brilliant, isn't she?

可惜她在教皇问题上让自己失望了，因为其他所有方面，她的选择都很棒。

It's such a shame she let herself down about the pope because in every other respect, her choices are great.

她人很好。

She's nice.

她是个仁慈的人，但该做的事她都会做，我为此赞赏她

She's a merciful person, but she does what she has to do, and I applaud her

确实如此。

for it.

好吧，她就这样镇压了叛乱。

Well, so she has smacked down the rebellion.

但当然，还有一个悬而未决的重大问题，那就是伊丽莎白在这次叛乱中扮演了什么角色？

But, of course, there is one massive question that is left hanging, and that is what in this rebellion was the role of Elizabeth?

当然，这一点立即就被调查了。

And, of course, this is investigated immediately.

而伊丽莎白已经是个非常精明的操盘手了。

And Elizabeth is a very shrewd operator already.

如果她真的参与了这场阴谋——我个人认为她很可能参与了——她绝不会留下任何罪证。

She's not the woman who is going to leave incriminating evidence around if she had been involved in the plot, which I think she probably had been.

我认为最能证明她至少是同谋的关键证据是：叛乱发生后，她最宠爱的凯特·阿什利的丈夫约翰·阿什利立即逃往了国外。

And I think the most salient piece of evidence that she had at least been complicit in the plot is that the husband of her great favourite, Cat Ashley, John Ashley, in the wake of the rebellion, he flees abroad.

他为何要这么做？

And why is he doing that?

很可能他曾是个中间人。

Presumably, he had been a kind of go between.

我是说，

I mean,

是的。

it's Yeah.

这似乎是对当前情况最可能的解释。

It seems the likeliest explanation for what's going on.

事情可能并不像她直接说‘让我们除掉我姐姐，我想当女王’那么简单。

And it might not be as as straightforward as her saying, let's get rid of my sister and I'd like to be queen.

她可能只是说‘听着，我们静观其变’。

It may be her just saying, well, listen, let's see what happens.

而我，你知道的，如果事态有变...你知道的

And I'm, you know, I'm available if things, you know

如果球在争球后排松动。

If the ball comes loose at the back of the scrum.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

正是。

Exactly.

于是她受到审问，当然她坚称自己无辜，但玛丽并不相信。

So she gets interrogated, and, of course, she protests her innocence, and Mary doesn't believe her.

于是在1月26日，玛丽召伊丽莎白来伦敦，而伊丽莎白经典地回应说，哦，我感觉有点不舒服。

So on the January 26, Mary summons Elizabeth to come to London, and Elizabeth classically says, oh, I feel a bit ill.

我有点头疼，有点感冒，所以拒绝前往。

I've got a bit of a headache, bit of a cold, and refuses to come.

于是玛丽在2月12日派出一队出身高贵的使者，包括几位贵族等人，前往哈特菲尔德将她带回伦敦。

So Mary then sends a posse of very well born agents, kind of lords and so on, on the February 12 to go to Hatfield and bring her back to London.

这次玛丽特意派了两名医生随行，确保她没法再装病。

And Mary made sure this time to send two doctors to make sure that, you know, she can't pull a sickie.

因此这段旅程花了很长时间，因为伊丽莎白一直声称自己头痛。

And so the journey takes a very long time because Elizabeth continues to say, oh, I've got a headache.

我走不动了。

I can't go.

随便吧。

Whatever.

但最终他们还是抵达了，伊丽莎白在白厅下了车。

But finally, they arrive, and Elizabeth gets out at Whitehall.

大批民众聚集起来想见她。

A large crowd has gathered to see her.

人们为她欢呼。

They cheer her.

伊丽莎白被带进了白厅的私人住所。

Elizabeth is is taken into Whitehall, a private quarters.

她被禁止见玛丽。

She's not allowed to see Mary.

几周过去了，伊丽莎白一直在想，天啊。

The weeks pass, and all the time, Elizabeth is thinking, oh my god.

到底发生了什么？

What's going on?

他们找到什么不利证据了吗？

Have they found any incriminating evidence?

他们在伪造证据吗？

Are they faking evidence?

我是说，谁知道她在想什么，但她对即将降临的灾祸感到紧张。

I mean, who knows what she's thinking, but she is nervous about what might be about to hit her.

然后在3月16日，她得知了真相。

And then in on the March 16, she finds out.

大法官和其他19名枢密院成员前来拜访她。

So she is visited by the lord chancellor and 19 other council members.

所以这大约是玛丽议会的一半成员。

So that's about half Mary's council.

这非常安妮·博林风格。

This is very Anne Boleyn.

这正是她遭遇的事情。

This is what happened to her.

对吧？

Right?

非常安妮·博林。

Very Anne Boleyn.

伊丽莎白即将经历的一切几乎都让人联想到安妮·博林，我认为这是有意为之。

And almost everything about what Elizabeth is going to go through is reminiscent of Anne Boleyn, and I think deliberately so.

玛丽正在和她玩心理游戏。

Mary is playing mind games with her.

于是议员们就她参与怀亚特叛乱一事进行审问，重复询问她已被问过的问题。

So the councillors question her about her involvement with Wyatt's rebellion, going over questions she has already been asked.

她再次否认与此事有任何牵连。

And once again, she denies all involvement in it.

而议员们再次公开表示怀疑。

And once again, the councillors display open skepticism.

伊丽莎白要求面见玛丽，以便亲自申辩。

Elizabeth demands to be brought into Mary's presence so that she can plead her case.

这一请求遭到拒绝。

This request is refused.

她再次坚称自己清白无辜。

Again, she insists on her innocence.

她说：我是个女人。

She says, I am a woman.

我在思想、言语和行为上都是个真正的女人。

I am a true woman in thought, word, and deed.

审讯者打断了她的话。

And her interrogators cut her off.

他们用伊丽莎白自被从哈特菲尔德带往伦敦那一刻起就必定恐惧万分的话语回应她。

And they answer her with words that Elizabeth must surely have been dreading from the moment that she was fetched from Hatfield and brought to London.

议员们用精心设计、足以让安妮·博林之女充满恐惧的言辞告诉她：'女王陛下已决意让你前往，此事再无转圜余地'。

The councillors tell her in words that were absolutely calculated to fill the daughter of Anne Boleyn with dread, there is no remedy for that the queen's majesty is fully determined that you should go

伦敦塔。

onto the tower.

真是扣人心弦。

What a cliffhanger.

年轻的伊丽莎白究竟会遭遇什么？

What on earth is going to happen to the young Elizabeth?

广告后揭晓。

Find out after the break.

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我们热衷于研究那些心怀不轨者、间谍、阴谋家以及伪装大师。

We love studying malicious actors, spies, plotters, masters of disguise.

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And Threat Protection Pro blocks malicious links and scans downloads for any Trojan horse behavior.

它不仅仅是为了隐私保护。

And it's not just for privacy.

在线零售商可能会根据你的地理位置暗中调整价格。

Online retailers can sneakily change prices based on your location.

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链接位于播客节目描述框中。

The link is in the podcast episode description box.

本节目由Uber赞助播出。

This episode is brought to you by Uber.

你是否体验过那种感觉——当你最需要时

Now do you know that feeling when someone shows up for

有人及时出现在你身边？

you when you need it most?

我们有时都需要这种关怀，

We all need that sometimes,

而优步深知这一点。

and Uber knows it.

优步不仅仅提供出行或送餐服务，

Uber isn't just a ride or a meal delivered.

它代表着无论何时都会出现。

It's showing up no matter what.

就像为远方的朋友送汤当他们生病时，在他们低落时送去鲜花。

Like for your long distance friends, bringing soup when they're sick, sending flowers when they're down.

当真正重要的事情发生时，无论是什么，你都会出现。

When it really matters, whatever it is, you show up.

只要有需要，我们就在路上。

Where there's a will, we're on our way.

优步，我们

Uber, on our

出发。

way.

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此刻我向上帝起誓，祂将鉴证我的真诚，无论恶意如何揣测，我从未实施、谋划或赞同任何可能损害您个人或通过任何方式危及国家之事。

To this present hour I protest before God, who shall judge my truth whatsoever malice shall devise, that I never practiced, counseled, nor consented to anything that might be prejudicial to your person in any way, or dangerous to the state by any means.

因此，我恳请陛下允许我亲自向她申辩，勿使我将信任托付于您的顾问。

And therefore, I humbly beseech your majesty to let me answer her for yourself, and not suffer me to trust your counselors.

好耶。

Yay.

最好在我被押往伦敦塔前，若有可能的话。

And that before I go to the tower if it be possible.

若不能，也请在我遭受进一步判决之前。

If not, before I be further condemned.

这是一份非凡的申诉，由伊丽莎白于3月17日写给其姐姐玛丽。

So that's an extraordinary appeal, and it was written on the March 17 by Elizabeth to her sister Mary.

她正等待卫兵将她从白厅沿泰晤士河转移到伦敦塔。

She is waiting for guards to move her from Whitehall up the River Thames to the Tower Of London.

她显然极度恐惧自己会重蹈母亲安妮·博林的覆辙——被囚禁于伦敦塔后遭处决。

She is obviously terrified that she is going to suffer the same fate as her mother, Anne Boleyn, who was imprisoned in the tower and then beheaded.

她恳求玛丽允许自己当面申辩，正如当年安妮·博林曾向亨利八世乞求申辩机会那样。

She's begging Mary to be able to plead her case directly to her, exactly as Anne Boleyn had begged that she'd be able to plead her case to Henry the eighth.

我们都知道，她的处境看起来已毫无希望。

And as we know, you know, things are looking incredibly bleak for her.

她被置于武装看守之下。

She's been put under armed guard.

她已被与仆人分开。

She's been separated from her servants.

是啊。

Yeah.

然后第二天，两名议会成员到来，要带她去伦敦塔，对吧？

And then the next day, two members of the council arrive, don't they, to take her to the tower?

看来她的游戏已经结束了。

And it looks as though the game is up for her.

是啊。

Yeah.

我认为这是她生命中最绝望的时刻。

I think it's the most desperate moment of her life.

前来押送她前往伦敦塔的两位枢密院成员都是重量级人物。

So the two members of the council who arrive to take her to the tower are absolute heavyweights.

其中一位名叫威廉·波莱特，是温彻斯特侯爵。

So one of them is a guy called William Pollet, who is the Marquess of Winchester.

他非常苍老。

He's very grizzled.

他头发灰白。

He's very gray.

而伊丽莎白非常清楚，此人曾是审判安妮·博林所谓情夫时的法官之一。

And he, as Elizabeth would have known full well, had been one of the judges at the trial of Anne Boleyn's supposed lovers.

另一位名叫亨利·拉特克利夫，他是萨塞克斯伯爵。

The other is a man called Henry Ratcliffe, and he is the earl of Sussex.

他四十五岁左右，是伊丽莎白的叔祖父。

He is in his mid forties, and he is Elizabeth's great uncle.

于是伊丽莎白转向他，恳求道：请让我见见我的姐姐。

And so Elizabeth turns to him and begs him, please let me see my sister.

萨塞克斯回答：不行。

Sussex says, no.

你知道的，女王陛下已经断然拒绝了这件事。

You know, her majesty has absolutely, refused that.

于是伊丽莎白又说：那我能给女王写封信吗？

And so then Elizabeth says, well, please may I write the queen a letter?

要知道，萨塞克斯毕竟是她的叔祖父。

And so Sussex, you know, he's a great uncle.

比起温彻斯特伯爵，他或许对她更为宽容。

He's more favorably disposed to her perhaps than than the Marquise of Winchester.

他说，好吧。

He says, alright.

你可以写封信。

You can write a letter.

于是伊丽莎白坐下来，奋笔疾书，申明自己的清白，并警告玛丽要提防所有诽谤她的人。

And so Elizabeth sits down, and she scribbles away protesting her innocence, warning Mary to to stand guard against all those who would who would slander her.

令人惊讶的是，她甚至引用了托马斯·西摩的例子，就是我们在上一集里讨论过的那位手脚不检点的继父。

And astonishingly, she even cites the example of Thomas Seymour, a very handsy stepfather who we talked about in the previous episode.

对，就是那位'挠痒痒先生'。

Yeah, mister Tickle.

她在信中告诉玛丽：'前些日子，我听萨默塞特勋爵说，如果当初允许他弟弟与他交谈，他就不会遭此厄运。'

She writes to Mary, in late days, I heard my Lord of Somerset say that if his brother had been suffered to speak with him, he had never suffered.

这番言论相当惊人，她将自己比作托马斯·西摩，而将玛丽比作西摩的兄长萨默塞特公爵。

And it's kind of an amazing thing to say, comparing herself to Thomas Seymour and Mary to Thomas Seymour's elder brother, the Duke of Somerset.

是啊。

Yeah.

考虑到那些流言蜚语，她这种疯狂的幻想或许正反映出她承受的巨大压力。

Because in view of the gossip, I mean, that's a kind of mad illusion to make and maybe reflective of the degree of stress that she's under.

你把我当杰弗里·爱泼斯坦对待了。

You're treating me like Jeffrey Epstein.

是啊。

Yeah.

确实。

Yeah.

这对她来说可不是什么明智之举。

I mean, not a sensible thing for her to say.

但她头脑足够清醒——写完一整页后，又在第二页写满半页。

But she's sufficiently on the ball that when she has you know, she writes a whole page, and then she covers halfway down a second page.

接着她在签名下方划线，并划掉多余行距，防止他人在她的话后面伪造内容。

And then she scores a line underneath her name and does lines through it so that people won't be able to kind of fake things underneath what she said.

这番操作耗时太久，潮水已经涨起来了。

And this takes so much time that all the while, the tide has been rising.

等她完成时，潮水已涨得如此之高，再也无法从伦敦桥下通过了。

And by the time she's finished, the tide has risen so high that it will no longer be possible to pass under London Bridge.

因此，前往伦敦塔的行程不得不推迟一天。

And so the journey to the tower has to be postponed for a day.

这是伊丽莎白一生中在被逼入绝境时最钟爱的策略典型——本质上就是拖延、搪塞、让人空等。

And this is a classic example of what will, throughout her life, be one of Elizabeth's favorite tactics when she's cornered, which is essentially is just to delay, to prevaricate, to string people along.

然而，日子一天天过去，到了第二天九点，也就是棕枝主日，温彻斯特和苏塞克斯再次出现。

However, you know, day passes, and at nine the next day, Palm Sunday, Winchester and Sussex reappear.

当然，这一天正是怀亚特叛乱原定的日期。

And this is the day, of course, that Wyatt's rebellion had been scheduled for.

玛丽那边毫无动静。

There is nothing from Mary.

她没有回复伊丽莎白的信，于是伊丽莎白只好认命。

She doesn't reply to Elizabeth's letter, and so Elizabeth is resigned to her fate.

她说道："若别无他法，我也只能认命了。"

If there be no remedy, she says, then I must be contented.

于是她上了船。

So she gets into the boat.

她被划船沿河而上，向伦敦塔驶去。

She's rowed up the river, towards the tower.

当时正下着倾盆大雨。

It's bucketing down with rain.

小船从伦敦桥下穿过，他们划到塔前并停泊在那里。

Underneath London Bridge, the boat goes, and they pull up to the tower and moor there.

据约翰·福克斯详细记载，她被押送到了叛徒之门。

And according to John Fox, who describes all this in in in great and loving detail, she was rode up to the traitor's gate.

起初，她拒绝下船。

And she initially, she refused to get out of the boat.

当她最终下船时，她宣称：‘作为最忠诚的臣民，以囚徒身份在此登岸，从未有人如此踏上这些台阶。’

And then when she did so, she declared, here landeth as truest subject, being prisoner, has ever landed at these stairs.

这一幕后来成为了著名的场景和经典台词。

And this becomes the kind of famous famous scene, famous lines.

然而，我们从一位当时的目击者处得知，事实并非如此，她实际上是通过吊桥进入伦敦塔的。

However, we know from a contemporary witness that this didn't happen, that actually she entered the tower across the drawbridge.

所以她下了船，从正门进入。

So she got out of the boat and and entered through the main entrance.

我认为这对伊丽莎白来说同样令人毛骨悚然，因为那正是她母亲安妮·博林曾经进入伦敦塔的同一条通道。

And I think this would have been no less chilling for Elizabeth because that is the same gateway through which her mother, Anne Boleyn, had entered the tower.

当伊丽莎白进入塔内时，她会看到简·格雷女士——她的表亲——刚被处决的绞刑架，而那正是她母亲被处决的同一地点搭建的。

And when Elizabeth passed inside the tower, she would have seen the scaffolding on which lady Jane Grey, her cousin, had just been executed, and that had been built on the very spot where her mother had been executed.

当她被带往住处时，这些皇家住所是她父亲为母亲加冕而重建的，也是安妮生前最后停留的地方。

And when she is led to her quarters, these are the royal quarters which her father had rebuilt for her mother's coronation and where Anne had stayed until the hour of her execution.

所以这是巨大的心理压力，我认为完全是刻意为之。

So massive psychological pressure, and I think completely deliberate.

某种程度上，你刚才问，玛丽是在向安妮·博林的幽灵复仇吗？

Partly, you know, you asked, is is Mary avenging herself on the ghost of Anne Boleyn?

我认为在某种程度上，她确实这么做了。

I think to a degree, here she is.

但我认为她这样做也是因为她需要伊丽莎白崩溃。

But I think she's also doing it because she needs Elizabeth to break.

她需要伊丽莎白认罪。

She needs Elizabeth to confess.

因为如果伊丽莎白不认罪，那就没有真正有力的证据指控她。

Because if Elizabeth doesn't confess, then there isn't really any hard evidence against her.

这一点非常重要，因为要重申的是，伊丽莎白非常受欢迎。

And this really matters because, you know, just to reiterate, Elizabeth is very popular.

她本身就是一位极具影响力的人物。

She is a very powerful figure in her own right.

对玛丽来说，在没有极其确凿证据的情况下起诉自己的妹妹是非常危险的。

It would be very dangerous for Mary to prosecute her own sister without extremely solid evidence.

而我认为伊丽莎白很可能确信没有针对她的确凿证据。

And Elizabeth, I think, probably is probably confident that there isn't hard evidence against her.

因此当她在耶稣受难日被带到议会面前时，很快就清楚地表明他们其实没有掌握她的任何罪证。

And so when she's brought before the council on Good Friday, it soon becomes very clear that they haven't really got anything on her.

话虽如此，如果是亨利八世在位，他毫无疑问会处决她。

That said, if in Henry the eighth, Henry the eighth would undoubtedly have executed her.

我是说，他根本不需要确凿证据。

I mean, he didn't need hard evidence.

他直接捏造罪名。

He made it up.

但玛丽并没有那么反复无常。

But Mary is not quite as capricious.

而且我觉得对女性而言，可能更难像亨利八世那样有足够底气凭空捏造罪名。

And I guess for a woman, you know, it's hard maybe harder to be quite so secure that you can just make stuff up as as Henry the eighth was.

是啊。

Yeah.

我认为她的统治地位不如亨利稳固。

I think her position is less stable than Henry's.

正是如此。

Exactly.

所以这其中存在危险，不是吗？

So there is a danger, isn't there?

怀亚特还在现场。

Wyatt He's still on the scene.

他将在4月11日被处决。

And he's going to be executed on the April 11.

她心里肯定有过疑虑，担心他会在绞刑架上突然说：是伊丽莎白指使我干的，她也是同谋。

And there must have been some doubt in her mind, some fear that basically he turns up on the scaffold and says, Elizabeth made me do it, but she was part of it.

她一直都知道这件事。

She knew about it all along.

但他却刻意没有这么做。

But he but he deliberately doesn't do that.

她为什么不这样做呢？

Why doesn't she do it?

因为那不是事实？

Because it's not true?

或者他是个善良的人？

Or he's a kind person?

嗯，他明确表示'在我起事之前，伊丽莎白对我的叛乱或骚乱并不知情'。

Well, he he explicitly says Elizabeth had not been privy of my rising or commotion before I began.

对。

Right.

我想对此有两种解释。

I suppose there are there are two explanations for that.

第一，伊丽莎白确实不知情。

One, Elizabeth hadn't been privy to it.

是的。

Yeah.

他说的是实话。

He's telling the truth.

其次，你知道，他期待玛丽之后能有一位新教继承人，所以想让她继续参与其中。

Secondly, you know, he's looking forward to the prospect of a Protestant heir to Mary, and he wants to keep her in the game.

所以我认为这两种解释都说得通。

So either explanation, I think, would be adequate.

所以最终，你知道，威胁逐渐消退了对吧？

So eventually, she, you know, the threat recedes, right?

她又在那里待了一个月。

She's there for another month.

玛丽和枢密院又犹豫了一个月，他们一直在讨论如何处置她。

There's another month of dithering while Mary and the council provaricate, they're discussing what to do with her.

然后，这是否又暗指了过去的往事？

And then, again, is this a little nod to the past?

于是在5月19日下午——正是安妮·博林被处决的周年纪念日——伊丽莎白获准离开伦敦塔。

So it's on the afternoon of the May 19, which is the anniversary of Anne Boleyn's execution that Elizabeth is allowed out of the tower.

你觉得这个日期是刻意选的吗？

Do you think that was deliberately chosen or not?

我确信是故意的。

I'm sure it was.

对。

Right.

我认为整个事件中安布林的命运回响如此明显，绝不可能是巧合。

I think the echoes of Ambilene's fate throughout this entire episode are are so manifest that it can't be coincidental.

但这里传达的信息不同。

But here, the message is different.

信息是：你母亲最终上了断头台，但你被赦免了。

The message is your mother ended up on the chopping block, but you are being spared.

这难道不正证明了你姐姐有多么仁慈宽厚吗？

And doesn't that prove how nice and merciful your sister is?

你不觉得这就是要传达的信息吗？

Don't you think that's the message?

不。

No.

我不这么认为。

I don't.

所以伊丽莎白虽然从伦敦塔获释，但她依然是个囚徒。

So Elizabeth is is being freed from the tower, but she's not she's still a prisoner.

所以她只能沿河而下，而非获准穿过可能为她欢呼的伦敦城区。

So she is she's rode down the river rather than being allowed to pass through the city of London where she might be cheered.

而玛丽，我认为她基本上是在说：我还在盯着你呢。

And Mary, I think, is basically saying, you know, I've still got my eye on you.

是啊。

Yeah.

你母亲的命运依然悬在你头顶。

The fate of your mother is still kind of hovering over your neck.

别怀疑这点。

Don't doubt that.

伊丽莎白没有被囚禁在伦敦。

Elizabeth is not kept a prisoner in London.

玛丽显然想把她放逐到偏远的乡野。

Mary obviously wants her kind of buried in the wilds of the countryside.

于是她被发配到你的地盘，牛津郡的伍德斯托克宫，离今天的布莱尼姆非常近。

And so she is sent to to your neck of the woods, to Oxfordshire and specifically Woodstock Palace, so very near what's today is Blenheim.

伍德斯托克曾是王室非常重要的地方。

Woodstock had been a very significant place for the royal family.

黑王子就是在这里出生的。

So it's where the black prince had been born.

亨利七世曾在这里庆祝阿拉贡的凯瑟琳与亚瑟王子的订婚。

It's where, Henry the seventh had celebrated the betrothal of Catherine of Aragon to prince Arthur.

所以，这或许又是另一种心理战术，可能有点过度解读了。

So, again, perhaps another piece of kind of psychological warfare there that might be kind of overregging it.

显然，设计来击垮伊丽莎白的是，此时的伍德斯托克已经非常破败。

What is clearly designed to break Elizabeth is the fact that by this point, Woodstock has become very dilapidated.

它已经年久失修。

So it's very rundown.

而且很潮湿。

It's damp.

那里有干腐病。

There's dry rot.

我猜，大概，你知道的，到处都是霉斑。

I guess, kind of, you know, full mica everywhere.

没错。

Right.

糟糕的七十年代墙纸。

Terrible nineteen seventies wallpaper.

你知道，这不是像伊丽莎白这样出身高贵的人会想住的地方。

You know, not the kind of place that you'd want to stay if you are as high born as Elizabeth is.

所以她非常讨厌那里。

And so she absolutely hates it.

她感到无聊。

She's bored.

她被孤立了。

She's isolated.

她被禁止了。

She's forbidden.

我引用原话：‘任何形式的信息、信件或与任何人的往来信物’。

And I quote, any message, letter, or token to or from any manner of person.

说‘任何人’，但这并不准确。

Say any manner of person, but that's not true.

有一类人是她被允许接触的，汤姆，就是威尔士人。

There is one manner of person that she is allowed contact with, Tom, and that's a Welshman.

最近节目里有很多威尔士历史的内容。

There's a lot of Welsh history on the show these days.

有人可能会说太多了。

Some would say too much.

那就解释下威尔士又是怎么出现的吧。

So explain how Wales features yet again.

托马斯·帕里，被大卫·斯塔基描述为一个自负的威尔士胖子，他是伊丽莎白的代理人，你知道的，她的财务规划师，就是她的会计。

So Thomas Parry, described by David Starkey as a fat self important Welshman, he is Elizabeth's agent, you know, her financial planner, the guy who you know, her accountant.

他被允许与伊丽莎白接触，因为伊丽莎白需要为自己的监禁支付费用。

And he is allowed contact with Elizabeth because Elizabeth has to pay for her own imprisonment.

所以他必须筹措资金让伊丽莎白能够做到这一点。

And so he has to find the money that enables Elizabeth to do this.

于是他在公牛酒馆——当地的小酒馆里安顿下来。

And so he installs himself in the bull, the local pub.

对。

Yeah.

在那里，他得以成为伊丽莎白了解外界的窗口。

And there, he's able to serve as Elizabeth's window on the world.

天啊。

God.

这部剧里威尔士历史元素也太多了。

So much Welsh history in this show.

必须得承认这一点。

It has to be said.

伍德斯托克的窗户后面可不是什么有趣的地方。

The windows of Woodstock are really not fun things to be stuck behind.

根据福克斯的说法，这又是一个他讲述的著名故事：伊丽莎白有一枚钻石戒指，她用它在其中一块窗玻璃上刻下了诗句。

And according to Fox, again, this is a famous story that he tells, Elizabeth has a diamond ring, and she uses this to scratch lines of poetry on one of the panes of glass.

“对我多有猜疑，却无实据可证”，引用伊丽莎白，囚徒。

Much suspected by me, nothing proved can be, quote Elizabeth, prisoner.

你觉得这真的发生过吗？

Do you think that really happened?

有人找到那块窗玻璃了吗？

Have people found the pane of the window pane?

我认为很可能发生过。

I think it probably happened.

我要说的是，这些诗句读起来很像伊丽莎白可能会写的东西，因为我们有不少她的诗作。

What I will say is it reads like lines that Elizabeth might have written because we have quite a lot of Elizabeth's poetry.

好吧。

Okay.

与此同时，在伍德斯托克窗外，玛丽正在推进她的反革命行动，尽管她并不认为这是反革命。

Now meanwhile, outside the windows of Woodstock, Mary is proceeding with her counter revolution even though she doesn't think of it as a counter revolution.

她认为这只是家务整理。

She thinks of it as housekeeping.

这就是福克斯在他的《殉道者之书》中所描述的玛丽一世统治时期的暴政——绞刑、斩首、火刑和监禁。

And this is what Fox describes in his, Book of Martyrs as the great tyranny of Bloody Mary's reign, so the hanging, beheading, burning, and prisoning.

这段英国历史上的插曲，曾是所有男孩女孩在11岁前就要学习的，那是英格兰历史上最黑暗的时期——血腥玛丽和她的天主教暴君试图焚毁真正的宗教。

And this is the episode in English history that once upon a time, all boys and girls learned before the age of about 11 years old, the kind of darkest period in, you know, the story of England when Bloody Mary and her Catholic tyrants sought to burn out the true religion.

是啊。

Yeah.

我是说，确实死了很多人，对吧？

And, I mean, a lot of people do die, don't they?

大约有三百名新教徒被烧死在火刑柱上？

Three hundred or so Protestants are burned at the stake?

没错。

Yep.

因此，根据福克斯的记录，针对血腥玛丽的指控清单非常冗长。

So the charge sheet against against Bloody Mary is is, thanks to Fox, very lengthy.

这300位殉道者中，有些是非常著名的人物。

And some of these 300 martyrs are very famous men.

其中之一是托马斯·克兰麦，他曾任坎特伯雷大主教。

So one of them is Thomas Cranmer, who'd been archbishop of Canterbury Yeah.

当然，在成为大主教之前，他曾是安布林的牧师，还是伊丽莎白的教父。

And, of course, Amberlin's chaplain before he became archbishop and had been Elizabeth's godfather.

另一位是在爱德华六世时期担任伦敦主教的尼古拉斯·里德利。

Another is the guy who'd been the bishop of London under Edward the sixth, a man called Nicholas Ridley.

在简·格雷女士担任女王期间，他曾公开抨击玛丽和伊丽莎白，称她们为私生女，并宣称简才是合法女王。

And he had, in the spell when lady Jane Grey was queen, he had preached against both Mary and Elizabeth, calling them bastards and saying that Jane was the rightful queen.

因此，伊丽莎白对他的殉难可能和玛丽一样乐见其成。

So Elizabeth might have enjoyed his martyrdom almost as much as Mary did.

是啊。

Yeah.

这是牛津的殉道者纪念碑。

This is the Martyrs Memorial in Oxford.

至今你仍能看到它。

You can see it to this day.

是的。

Yeah.

但他们不仅是这些大人物，还有许多默默无闻的普通人也被处决了，对吧？

But they're also these are the bigwigs, but they're also very ordinary unsung people who are executed, aren't they?

众所周知，有许多裁缝之类的人在伦敦城外的史密斯菲尔德被烧死。

So famously, there were lots kind of tailors and so on, who were burned in Smithfield, just outside the city of London.

你可以在圣巴塞洛缪医院旁边看到他们的纪念碑。

And, you can you can see a memorial to them there on the side of Saint Bartholomew's Hospital.

还有一起臭名昭著的事件发生在海峡群岛的根西岛，一名孕妇被投入火中。

And there's one notorious episode which happened on Guernsey in the Channel Islands when a pregnant woman is consigned to the flames.

引用伍丁的话：在火焰中，她产下一名男婴，被旁观者救出，但现场的执达吏又将婴儿推回火中，让他与母亲一同殒命。

And to quote Wooding, amidst the flames, she gave birth to a baby boy who was rescued by a bystander, but the bailiff in attendance thrust him back into the fire to perish with his mother.

当你读到这些时，你会觉得这一定是宣传。

And when you read that, you think that must be propaganda.

我不敢相信这真的发生过。

I can't believe that happened.

但我们知道确实如此，因为那个法警后来因谋杀婴儿在伊丽莎莎白时期被起诉。

But but we know that it did because the bailiff was subsequently prosecuted for the murder of the child, under Elizabeth.

所以这件事确实发生了。

So that did happen.

这就是血腥玛丽，但宣传也将玛丽塑造成一个政治上的失败者。

So that's that's bloody Mary, but the propaganda also casts Mary as, a political failure.

这份指控清单上的第一条证据就是她与西班牙菲利普的婚姻。

And exhibit a in on this charge sheet is her marriage to Philip of Spain.

论点是玛丽通过这段婚姻，将英格兰置于一个专横的外国天主教徒——还是个西班牙人——的统治之下，结果除了屈辱一无所有。

And the argument is that by doing this, Mary has subordinated England to a domineering foreign papist and a Spaniard to boot, and that the consequence had been nothing but humiliation.

英格兰被卷入一场与法国无关的战争中。

England gets dragged into a war with France that was none of her business.

这一连串事件的顶峰是1588年1月耻辱性地失去了加莱——这个自爱德华三世时代以来英国在欧洲大陆的立足点。

This culminates in the humiliating loss in January 1588 of Calais, which had been the English foothold on the continent since the time of Edward the third.

这里还有个过去人尽皆知的著名故事：玛丽在临终前曾说'当我死后被剖开时，你们会发现加莱就躺在我的心脏里'。

And there's this, again, famous story that everyone used to know that Mary on her deathbed said, when I am dead and opened, you shall find Calais lying in my heart.

你看，这就是玛丽——既是失败者又是偏执狂的形象。

And, you know, this is Mary as failure as well as bigot.

但是汤姆，我们现在并不是在搞修正主义。

But, Tom, this this is not now us being revisionist.

我是说，学术界、历史学界在我们有生之年的几十年来一直认为，这其中很多都是新教徒的夸大宣传，玛丽的处决对于都铎王朝的君主来说并不罕见，甚至她的外交政策也比宣传的要好。

I mean, the scholarship, the historiography for the last well, for for decades in our lifetime has been that this is much of this is Protestant propaganda massively inflated, that Mary's executions are nothing unusual for a Tudor monarch, and that even her foreign policy is better than is advertised.

所以我们来深入探讨一下这个问题。

So let's dig into this a little bit.

那么我们就从‘血腥玛丽’这个形象开始说起——那个疯狂的天主教偏执狂，在全国肆虐，焚烧正直诚实的新教神职人员等等。

So let's start with the idea of Bloody Mary, the Catholic, the mad Catholic bigot who rampages across the land, burning decent, honest Protestant churchmen, all of this.

这在某种程度上是不真实的，不是吗？

This is untrue, isn't it, to some extent?

我是说，确实有人死去，但在中世纪和近代早期的君主统治下，死亡总是如影随形。

I mean, sure, people do die, but they always die in medieval and early modern monikers.

我们一直在强调她

We've been saying throughout that she

以仁慈著称，这一评价并非毫无根据。

has a reputation for mercy and that this is not unjustified.

她和她的代理人并不会四处搜捕异端分子。

She and her agents do not go around sniffing out heretics.

那些被指控、审讯，并在拒绝悔改后被烧死的人，都是被邻居告发的。

The people who are charged and interrogated, and if they refuse to repent, then burnt, are people who've been denounced by their neighbors.

玛丽无疑更希望不处决他们。

And Mary undoubtedly would much rather not have executed them.

她想要的是他们的悔改。

She wanted their repentance.

她并不想置他们于死地。

She didn't want them dead.

每一位为玛丽亚殉道者的死亡，都意味着天主教教会体系的失败。

At the death of every martyr for Mary and the apparatus of the Catholic church is a failure.

我完全理解，从我们二十一世纪的视角来看，这似乎并不能成为开脱的理由。

Now I can entirely see that from our perspective in the twenty first century, this doesn't really see much of an extenuation.

但关键在于，正如我们在玛丽·斯图亚特系列中所讨论的，君主的工作就是镇压异端与叛乱。

But the thing is, and we talked about this in, in the series we did on Mary Queen of Scots, a monarch's job is to suppress heresy and rebellion.

而在十六世纪，异端与叛乱是被等同视之的。

And in the sixteenth century, heresy and rebellion are equated.

两者之间根本无法区分。

It's impossible to distinguish between the two.

镇压异端本就是君主的职责所在。

It's the monarch's job to suppress heresy.

是啊。

Yeah.

确实。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Of course.

这是绝对关键的功能。

It's absolutely crucial function.

不到300人。

It's under 300.

大约有280到290人因异端罪名在玛丽统治期间被处决。

It's about 280 to 290 people who are executed for heresy under Mary.

当你把这个数字与其他都铎王朝君主的所作所为对比时，就显得没那么糟糕了，因为这280、290人的死亡是分散在三年时间里。

And when you put that in the context of what other Tudor monarchs did, it starts to seem less bad because the 280, 290 people who die, that's that's over a span of three years.

但如果你看1537年反对亨利八世的天主教徒起义——圣恩朝圣，亨利处决了250名天主教徒，而这基本上发生在几周之内。

But if you look at the pilgrimage of grace, which was a a Catholic rebellion against Henry the eighth in 1537, Henry put 250 Catholics to death, and that's basically in a few weeks.

是的。

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

要知道，那规模和即时性都远超玛丽时期的任何事件。

You know, that's on a a far vaster, more immediate scale than anything Mary does.

然后在1569年，又爆发了一场针对伊丽莎白的天主教徒叛乱，她处死了600名天主教徒。

And then in 1569, there's a there's a rebellion against, Elizabeth again by Catholics, and she put 600 Catholics to death.

而我们却对此只字不提。

And we don't hear anything about that.

而且

And just

说清楚点，如果你造反，就该知道会面临什么惩罚。

to be clear, like, if you rebel, I mean, you know that these are the penalties.

对吧？

Right?

正如你所说，这绝对是君主的职责所在。

I mean, as you said, it's absolutely the monarch's job.

是的。

Yeah.

如果有人造反，你知道的，要么他们赢，要么你赢。

If people rebel against you, you know, either they win or you win.

如果你只是轻描淡写地惩罚他们，说‘回家吧，别再犯了’，不出几个月你就会失去王冠，所有人都会说你无能、辜负了他们。

And if you just slap them on the wrist and say, go home and don't do it again, you know, you will lose your crown within months, and everybody will say you were useless and you're letting them down.

我的意思是，这是职责描述的一部分。

I mean, this is part of the job description.

确实如此。

It is.

而且还有一个更复杂的问题，就是假设那些被烧死的人是玛丽偏执与嗜血的证据。

And and there's a further complication in assuming that the people who are burned are a kind of evidence of of Mary's bigotry and bloodlust.

因为实际上，其中有几个人在爱德华六世或亨利八世时期就会被处以火刑。

Because, actually, several of them would have been burned under Edward the sixth or Henry the eighth.

因为事实上，他们的观点如此异端，就连新教君主也会认为他们不可容忍。

Because, actually, their their views are so heretical that even a Protestant monarch would have, regarded them as beyond the pale.

所以，他们是那些否认三位一体或拒绝基督神性的人。

So they're, you know, they're people who deny the Trinity or reject the divinity of Christ.

无论你是在新教还是天主教君主统治下说这种话，都是死罪。

That is death whether you are saying it under a Protestant or a Catholic monarch.

他们是咎由自取。

They had it coming.

我们得公平点说。

Let's be fair.

嗯，我是说，没错，玛丽这么做了，而且按十六世纪的观点来看她做得对。

Well, I mean, yeah, Mary did it and she was right to do it, would be the perspective of of the sixteenth century.

我完全理解，在二十一世纪人文主义者看来，这并不能成为充分的辩解。

I mean, I entirely see that by the lights of a twenty first century humanist, this isn't really an adequate, extenuation.

但按十六世纪的标准来看，我认为这就是正当的。

But I I think by the standards of the sixteenth century, it is.

我认为将玛丽描绘成血腥形象是福克斯方面天才的宣传工作，这就是为什么他的书具有如此地震般的影响力。

I think the the image of Mary as bloody is a genius work of propaganda on the part of Fox, and that's why his book is is so seismically influential.

那军事失败的记录呢？

What about the record of military failure?

即便是这一点，我认为也不像表面看起来那么彻底。

Even that, I think, isn't as total as it seemed.

关于英格兰被拖入这场对法战争、毫无利害关系的指控，这完全不符合事实。

The accusation that that England is dragged into this war against France, you know, willy nilly without any stake in it, that's simply not true.

法兰西是英格兰的传统敌人。

France is England's traditional enemy.

法国总是伺机进攻英格兰。

France is always looking to attack England.

而在玛丽统治时期，英格兰直接面临着法国海军规模和能力大幅扩张的威胁。

And in Mary's reign, England is directly threatened by a massive increase in the size and the capacity of the French navy.

听过我们关于苏格兰玛丽女王系列的听众可能记得，1548年法国曾军事干预苏格兰事务，对抗当时正在进行粗暴求爱的英格兰。

And people who listen to our series on Mary, Queen of Scots may remember that in 1548, the French intervene in Scotland militarily against the English who are doing the rough wooing at the time.

不久之后，五岁的苏格兰玛丽女王被一支法国舰队从克莱德河畔带到了苏格兰，多明尼克，这就是那个著名的时刻——玛丽丝毫没有表现出你非常不屑一顾的晕船迹象。

And that shortly afterwards, the five year old Mary Queen of Scots is brought by a French flotilla from from the Clyde down to Scotland, and that is the the famous moment, Dominic, where Mary shows no sign of seasickness that you were very contemptuous of.

她不是亲自掌舵的吗？

Did she not steer the ship herself?

这是否又是另一个说法，声称她亲自驾驶了那艘船？

Is that another claim that she, personally helmed that ship?

我认为这不是关键所在。

I think this isn't the salient fact about this.

重要的是法国舰队能够沿着英格兰一侧航行并干预苏格兰事务，然后再沿另一侧返航，而英格兰人对此束手无策。

What matters is that the French fleet are able to sail up the side of England and intervene in Scotland and then sail down the other side, and the English can't, can't do anything about it.

原因在于，到了玛丽统治时期，英格兰舰队已经严重衰败。

And the reason for that is that by Mary's reign, the English fleet has become very run down.

自1551年以来，英格兰就再未建造过任何战船。

No English war warship has been built since 1551.

而纠正这一局面的人正是西班牙的菲利普。

And the person who rectifies this is Philip of Spain.

1555年，他对妻子说，来吧。

In 1555, he says to his wife, come on.

你得让造船厂赶紧开工。

You've gotta get the shipbuilds hammering.

我们需要让英国海军重新出海。

We need to get the English navy back out to sea.

导致加莱失守的这场战争也不全是坏消息。

And the war that results in the loss of Calais isn't all bad news.

引用本杰明·雷丁对此撰写的精彩论文中的话：'它作为重振英国海军的催化剂具有根本重要性'。

So to quote Benjamin Reading, who's written a great essay on this, it was fundamentally important for it acted as the stimulus for reviving the English navy.

当然，长远来看，英格兰的未来不在于维持法国境内（即加莱）这个极其昂贵的据点。

And, of course, in the long run, England's future does not lie in maintaining a very, very expensive foothold in France, namely Calais.

未来在于掌控英吉利海峡及更远的海洋。

The future lies in ruling the channel and the seas beyond.

这是都铎历史上的一大讽刺——若非玛丽嫁给西班牙的腓力，1588年的英国舰队就不会具备击败腓力派出的西班牙无敌舰队的实力。

And this is one of the great ironies of Tudor history because had Mary not married Philip of Spain, then the English fleet in 1588 would not have been in the condition to defeat the Spanish armada sent by Philip of Spain.

所以你的意思是，西班牙的菲利普与阿尔弗雷德大帝并列为皇家海军的奠基人。

So what you're saying is Philip of Spain stands alongside Alfred the Great as the founding father of the Royal Navy.

是的。

Yes.

基本上是这样。

Essentially.

我是说，这真是历史中一个绝妙的讽刺。

I mean, it's it's it's one of the delicious ironies of history.

所以我认为可以说，到1558年，玛丽的政权非但没有摇摇欲坠、虚弱不堪或血腥镇压，反而显得相当稳固。

So I think you could say that far from tottering, far from being weak, far from being blood soaked, actually, by 1558, Mary's regime is looking pretty secure.

虽然加莱失守了，但英格兰拥有一支能阻止法国人进攻本土港口的舰队。

So Calais has been lost, but England has a fleet that is capable of stopping the French from bringing the attack to English ports.

恢复天主教的运动进展顺利。

The campaign to restore Catholicism is going well.

异端审判案件有所减少，这表明公开的新教活动正逐渐被清除。

There's a drop off in trials for heresy, which suggests that, overt Protestantism is starting to be, weeded out.

当然，英格兰仍有大批人持新教同情态度，但玛丽反宗教改革的成功之处在于，这些人基本上都甘愿保持低调。

Of course, there are still plenty of people in England who have Protestant sympathies, but it's the measure of how successful Mary's counter reformation is that these, by and large, are content to lie low.

我们有个典型案例。

And we have a classic example of this.

一位杰出的年轻公务员，同样来自林肯郡，和福克斯一样。

A brilliant young public servant, again, from Lincolnshire, like, like Fox.

今天的播客里林肯郡含量真高啊。

There's a lot of Lincolnshire on today's today's podcast.

非常高

A lot

林肯郡的。

of Lincolnshire.

这位名叫威廉·塞西尔。

And this is a guy by the name of William Cecil.

1558年时他才35岁，但已身居高位。

So he's only 35 in 1558, but he's a man who's already risen very, very high.

他非常擅长在权力的滑竿上攀爬。

He's proved very proficient at climbing up the the slippery pole of power.

一名坚定的新教徒，从二十多岁起就一直是。

A committed Protestant, had been since his mid twenties.

他曾是剑桥大学伟大的教育家和希腊学者罗杰·阿沙姆的学生，伊丽莎白也曾是。

He'd been a student of Roger Asham, the great, educationalist and Greek scholar at Cambridge, as Elizabeth had been.

他曾是爱德华六世政权的忠实臣仆。

He'd been a very committed servant of Edward the sixth regime.

他曾是枢密院成员。

He'd been on the council.

作为顾问，他支持过让简·格雷女士登上王位的阴谋，而且他坚信教皇就是敌基督。

As a counsellor, he had backed the plot to put Lady Jane Grey on the throne, and he is a man who has no doubt that the papacy is the antichrist.

不。

No.

所以人们可能会好奇，这个人是怎么在玛丽掌权后活下来的？

So people may be wondering, well, how has this man survived Mary coming to power?

和伊丽莎白一样，他是个极其精明、自律的操盘手。

Like Elizabeth, he's a very subtle, self disciplined operator.

嗯，汤姆，听起来他真是个了不起的人物。

Well, Tom, he sounds like an absolutely splendid man.

但问题是，为什么他没有被送上断头台？

But the question is, why hadn't he ended up on the chopping block?

比如，他如何在玛丽统治下不仅幸存下来还得以飞黄腾达，按理说他本该是

Like, how has he managed to survive and indeed to flourish under Mary when surely he should have been one

她的目标之一？

of her targets?

部分原因在于他是个极其谨慎自律的人，懂得如何保守秘密，也擅长掩盖秘密。

Partly because he's a very subtle, self disciplined man, a man who knows how to keep a secret and knows how to bury a secret.

和伊丽莎白一样，他不会留下书面痕迹。

Like Elizabeth, he doesn't leave behind paper trails.

与此同时，正如我们本期节目一直强调的，玛丽并非睚眦必报之人。

At the same time, as we've been saying throughout this episode, Mary is not a vengeful woman.

她愿意宽恕。

She is ready to forgive.

她愿意遗忘。

She's ready to forget.

只要像塞西尔这样的人没有积极密谋反对她，她就很乐意容忍他们。

And so long as men like Cecil are not actively conspiring against her, she is perfectly happy to tolerate them.

用一句话来说，她不想窥探人们灵魂的窗户。

To coin a phrase, she doesn't want to make windows into men's souls.

我认为这是一种明智且按当时标准来看相当温和的政策，到1588年时似乎已见成效。

And this is a wise and by the standards of the age, I think, moderate policy and one that by 1588 seems to be working.

国内外都有一种感觉，认为英格兰正在被赢回天主教会的怀抱。

And there is a feeling domestically but also abroad that England is being won back for the Catholic church.

正如一位天主教徒所说，英格兰正在开始恢复其纯净形态。

So one Catholic puts it, England is beginning to recover its pure form.

一切似乎都在顺利进行。

It all seems to be going well.