为什么63%的年轻人已经放弃尝试 | 斯科特·加洛韦

我起步晚，42岁才要孩子。

I started late, was 42.

是啊，我也是。

Yeah, me too.

你42岁。

You're 42.

哦，你42岁啊。

Oh, you're 42.

刚有孩子不久。

Just had kids.

是啊，你42岁的状态和我42岁时可不一样。

Yeah, you at 42 is a different look than me at 42.

总之，当我孩子冒失地从我女朋友肚子里出来时，那是2008年，我那时已经一无所有了。

Anyways, but when my kid came marching or had the poor judgment to come marching out of my girlfriend, it was 2008 and I had lost everything.

哦就在房地产危机那会儿，是啊。

Oh right at the housing crisis, yeah.

我总是全力以赴。

I always gone all in.

我在旧金山成为了一名职业经纪人，在那里你应该全力以赴，用股票抵押借款，而且你被灌输的思想是，如果你真的很有才华，就要为胜利而战，认为自己非常出色，只要100%投入某件事就一定能成功，却再次忽视了多样性的力量。

I became a professional agent in San Francisco where you're supposed to go all in, borrow money against your stocks, and you were kind of taught if you're really talented, you're in it to win it, and you can I'm so awesome that if I throw myself at something 100% it's going to win, not recognizing again the power of diversity.

所以我曾三次变得富有，这意味着我失去过两次财富。

So I've been wealthy three times, which means I've lost it twice.

我在2000年失去了一切。

And I lost it in 2000.

然后我重新爬起来，有了孩子，就在那一刻又失去了一切，因为我愚蠢地没有分散投资。

Then I crawled my way back, had a kid, and literally at that moment lost everything because I was too stupid to diversify.

你读过那本关于金钱的书。

You read the book on money.

我当时还没学会分散投资的力量。

I hadn't learned the power of diversification.

当我的孩子来到这个世界时，迎接他的不是明亮的灯光和天使的歌声。

And when my kid entered the world, it wasn't bright lights and angels singing.

我真的感到焦虑和羞愧。

I literally felt anxiety and shame.

我心想，不仅把自己搞砸了，现在还把完全依赖我的人也给连累了。虽然我本身就有抑郁倾向，容易把事态想得过于悲观，但我记得当时恶心得厉害，焦虑到必须坐下来。

I'm like not only have I screwed up for me but now I've screwed up for someone who is totally dependent upon me and granted I struggle with depression so I have a tendency to see dark things as black but I remember I was so nauseous and so anxious that I had to sit down.

我觉得那时他们更担心的是我，而不是孩子的母亲，而我却无法说出'我感到失败'这句话。

They were more worried about me I think than the mother of the kid at that point and I couldn't say I feel failure.

我觉得自己已经辜负了这个新生命。

I feel like I've already let this thing down.

所以对我来说，这反而成了强大的动力。

So for me, that was very motivating.

我认为养育孩子确实充满压力。

I think having kids is stressful.

不是说每个人都适合，但这确实让我成为了更好的男人，因为我想以身作则树立好榜样。

I'm not saying it's for everybody, but it definitely has made me a better man because I want to model good behavior.

现在我更加认真地承担起供养者和保护者的责任。

I take being a provider and a protector much more seriously now.

因此我认为这确实是男性气概的三根支柱：供养者、保护者、繁衍者。

And so I do think this is kind of the three legs of the masculinity stool provider, protector, procreator.

我认为这些确实是构成男性气概的坚实基础，而培养成为这三种角色所需的技能、优势和特质，大致上就是我心目中坦率而言的男性气概定义。

I do think those are decent legs of the stool and the skills and strengths and attributes you want to develop to be all three of those things are loosely thinking what I believe it means to be quite frankly masculine.

但这本书更多是关于我犯过的错误、从中吸取的教训，以及如何围绕这些经历成长。

But the book is really more about where I screwed up and what I learned from it and try to evolve around it.

不过说真的，我第一次面对这种情况时——听说你刚有了双胞胎。

But yeah, my first encounter, I know you just had twins.

你现在的表现比我当时好多了。

You're doing much better than I was at that moment.

但我当时感受到了巨大的压力和焦虑。

But I felt a ton of stress and anxiety.

不过这段经历也让我收获颇丰。

But it also is very productive for me.

而我为孩子担忧的事情之一，就是我自己的成长环境并不富裕——至少在物质条件上是这样。

And one of the things I worry about with my kids is that I didn't grow up with a lot, at least not economically.

我想说的是，如果我拥有我的孩子们所拥有的一切，我就不会拥有我现在的一切。

And I would say if I had what my kids have, I wouldn't have what I have.

我经常思考的是如何培养那种坚韧的品质。

And a lot of what I think about is how do you instill that sense of grit.

对孩子来说，一点点恐惧感可能是有益的。

And a little bit of fear is probably good in kids.

因为真正激励我的东西——如果我拥有我的孩子们所拥有的一切——我唯一可能沉迷的恐怕就是路虎揽胜和可卡因了。

Because the things that really motivated me if I had what my kids have, the only things I know I would have engaged in is like a Range Rover and a cocaine habit.

我本质上是个懒惰的人。

I'm a fundamentally lazy person.

年轻时我并没有拯救世界的抱负。

When I was younger, I didn't want to save the world.

我不够善良。

I wasn't kind.

我也没想过要创造价值。

I wasn't trying to add value.

我渴望经济保障，因为缺乏它曾给我的生活带来太多焦虑。

I wanted economic security because an absence of it had caused so much anxiety in my life.

我在想，如果你在富裕环境中长大，你是在有钱的家庭长大的吗？

And I think that if you grow up with money did you grow up with money?

不是。

No.

我认为有钱人可以同情那些没钱的人。

If people have money, I think they can sympathize with people who don't.

但我不认为他们能真正感同身受，因为就像有个幽灵一直跟着我和我母亲，说我们不配。

But I don't really think they can fully empathize because it's as if my mom and I had this ghost following us around saying you're not worthy.

你搞砸了。

You screwed up.

你和你母亲都搞砸了。

You and your mom screwed up.

当我没能被录取率74%的UCLA录取时，我成了那26%被拒的少数。

When I didn't get into UCLA down the road, they a 74% admissions rate and I was one of the twenty six percent that didn't get in.

我记得当时去找朋友的父母，他们知道我没被录取。

I remember people, I went to my friend's parents and they knew I didn't got in.

他们说，你明天就该坐飞机去密歇根，直接到招生办公室报到，你这么聪明。

They're like, you should get on a plane tomorrow and go to Michigan and show up at the admissions office and you're so smart.

我听着这些话，心想‘去密歇根’——

And I'm listening, I'm like go to Michigan.

可我连信用卡都没有。

I don't have a credit card.

我这辈子就坐过两次飞机。

I've been on a plane like twice.

我们根本负担不起这种开销。

We don't have that kind of money.

我掏不起两三百美元就为了去露个脸。

I can't afford to spend 200 or $300 to go and show.

这背后是自信的缺失、人脉的匮乏，说实在的还有种金钱阶层无法理解的处世经验的欠缺——以及那种如影随形的焦虑。

There's just a lack of confidence, a lack of contacts, a lack of quite frankly sophistication that people with money can't even relate to and the anxiety.

我记得这种情况，我不称之为创伤，有人经历过更糟的创伤。

I remember like this, I don't call it trauma, people have worse trauma.

我就是那种随时可能找不到钥匙的人。

I'm one of those people that's always five minutes away from losing your keys.

我什么都丢，前妻总说要不是我的老二还长在身上，我们准能在Soho的牌桌旁找到它，旁边还摆着《好家伙》剧本和涅槃乐队专辑。

I lose everything and my ex wife used to say if my dick wasn't attached we'd find it on a card table in Soho next to a Goodfella script and a Nirvana album.

我一周就丢了两件夹克。

And I lost two jackets in one week.

不知为何那时候夹克要30美元一件。

And jackets were $30 for some reason.

当时夹克市场简直像被垄断集团操控。

It was like a monopoly or a cartel in jackets.

那种恐惧和焦虑至今记忆犹新。

And I remember just the fear and anxiety.

我故意连续两晚在朋友家过夜，只因不敢告诉妈妈我又丢了件夹克——我知道她会崩溃的。

I purposely spent the night at my friends two nights in a row because I just couldn't face telling my mom I'd lost another jacket because I knew she was going to melt down.

我母亲当时处于非常脆弱的状态，她会彻底崩溃，这让人非常痛苦。

My mom was in a very vulnerable place and she would just lose her and that was very distressing.

所以我一直非常专注。

So I've been so focused.

对这本书的一些批评确实很准确，那就是我太关注金钱了。

Some of the critiques of the book is that and it's actually an accurate critique it's that I'm too focused on money.

而且我认为金钱能解决一个人的问题。

And that I think money will solve a man's problems.

这确实是一个非常准确的批评。

And that's actually a really accurate critique.

但这种想法源于曾经的一无所有。

But that comes from a place of not having it.

当我获得经济保障后，一切都变得轻松美好了许多。

And things just got so much easier and better for me once I had economic security.

嗯，我同意这确实是部分原因，但如果你有钱却不善良，只会像恶人一样毁掉别人的生活。

Well, I think it's part of it for sure like you said, but also if you're not kind and you have money, you're going to just ruin people's lives if you're just like mean.

好的。

Okay.

拥有所有的钱。

Have all the money.

我有资源。

I have resources.

我风趣又聪明，但为人刻薄。

I'm funny and I'm intelligent, but I'm mean.

这对任何与他们建立关系的人来说都是灾难，无论是商业伙伴、团队成员，还是企业经营者，甚至是总统。

That is a disaster for any person coming into a relationship with them, whether it be a business partner or a team member if they're running a business or The president.

总统或金融...我这么说吧。

The president or a finance I say that.

我不清楚

I don't know the political leanings

你或你的听众的政治倾向。

of you or your audience.

但我发现，我们本应仰望的那些男性榜样——世界首富、资本主义赢家、总统之流

But I find that some of the role models for masculinity that we should naturally look up to the wealthiest man in the world, he's won capitalism, and the president.

我认为他们并非年轻男性的良好榜样

And I don't think they're very strong role models for young men.

我认为他们将男子气概与粗鲁残忍混为一谈

I think they've conflated masculinity with coarseness and cruelty.

同时被两名女性起诉要求单独抚养权，只因你从未探望过自己的孩子——这简直是对男子气概的最大讽刺

Being sued concurrently by two women for sole custody of your child because you haven't seen that child, that couldn't be any less masculine.

切断对HIV阳性母亲的援助

Cutting off aid to HIV positive mothers.

我想不出还有什么比这更缺乏男子气概的行为了

I just can't think of anything less masculine than that.

这些人确实获得了巨大的财富成功

It's like these guys have recognized tremendous prosperity.

这确实令人印象深刻

That's really impressive.

但繁荣的全部意义在于你能转向保护他人

But the whole point of prosperity is you can move to protection.

这才是完整的使命

That's the whole shooting match.

如果你在保护自己之后不能挺身而出保护他人，那繁荣的意义何在？

What's the point of prosperity if you can't get off your heels and onto your toes and protect others after you've protected yourself?

我认为美国一些最有权势的男人恰恰错过了他们男子气概成长路上的这一整段历程

And I think some of the most powerful men in The United States have just missed that whole part of their journey towards manhood.

这真令人失望

I think it's really disappointing.

即便回顾镀金时代，那些曾经贪婪成性的人一旦功成名就，也确实感受到了公民义务的责任

Even if you look back at the Gilded Age, some of these men who were just rapacious, once they got there, they did feel a real obligation, a civic obligation.

而如今在科技巨头和政府中的某些人，我觉得他们似乎跳过了男子气概中'保护'这个支柱

And that's where I think some of the individuals in big tech and in our government right now, I feel as if they've kind of skipped that whole protection part of the masculinity stool, if you will.

繁衍、保护和供养——这就是那三条支柱吗？

Procreation, protection, and providing are those the three stools?

供养者。

Provider.

供养者。

Provider.

然后转向保护。

And then move to protection.

操作系统始终围绕保护，不仅仅是身体上的。

Operating system around always protecting not just physical.

像你这样体型的人会在酒吧劝架。

Guys like your size break up fights at bars.

他们不会挑起事端。

They don't start them.

但情感保护、心理保护，所有这些都很重要。

But emotional protection, psychological protection, all these things.

当你听到有人在背后说别人坏话时，默认的操作系统应该是介入，至少不参与，最好能保护他们。

When you hear someone talking shit about someone behind their back, default operating system should be to weigh in and minimum not participate and ideally protect them.

你可能不认同跨性别群体。

You may not agree with the transgender community.

你可能像我一样，认为企业被法律强制要求设置第三卫生间很荒谬。

You may be like me and think it's ridiculous that firms have to have legally mandated third bathrooms.

我觉得这毫无道理。

I don't think that makes any sense.

我认为允许一个身高六尺五寸的跨性别女性参加NC2A游泳比赛很荒唐。

I think it's ridiculous that we allowed a transgender woman who's six foot five to show up to an NC2A swim meet.

我觉得这完全不合常理。

I think that's just irrational.

虽然初衷是好的，但我认为这种做法不理性。

It starts from a good place but I think that's irrational.

但与此同时，我不明白为什么人们要妖魔化这个群体，在他们光荣服役的情况下还要将其赶出军队。

But at the same time I just don't see any reason why people want to demonize this community and start kicking them out of the military when they're served honorably.

当我们通过州法律禁止高中出现跨性别运动员时，有人问南达科他州高中有没有跨性别运动员，结果一个都找不到。

When we start passing laws in states that say there can't be any transgender athletes in high school and then someone actually says are there any transgender athletes in high school in South Dakota and they can't find one.

这纯粹是在妖魔化一个群体。

That's just demonizing a community.

这还不到美国人口的1%。

This is less than 1% of the American population.

所以没错，民主党人或左派人士是否走得太远了？

So yeah, have Democrats or people on the left gone way too far?

是的。

Yeah.

但随后又加入进来，只是出于恶意并妖魔化一个群体。

But then to weigh in with just being mean and demonizing a community.

所以女性应该能够过马路，因为她们看到街对面有男性，而不是避开他们。

So women should be able to cross the street because they see men on that side of the street not avoid them.

女性说她们在男性身边感到不安全，这令人心碎。

That's heartbreaking that women say they don't feel safe around men.

我认为我们必须从小教育我们的男孩，保护确实是一个关键要素。

I think we have to teach our young boys from a very early age protection is really a key component.

最后一点更具争议性的是关于生育的问题。

And then the last one is more controversial is procreation.

我认为男性渴望浪漫和性关系这一需求已被病态化和妖魔化。

And that is I think men wanting romantic and sexual relationships has been pathologized and demonized.

我认为这是特性而非缺陷，因为如果男性想要建立关系——坦率地说包括性关系——我在南滩罗利酒店的泳池边看到我的伴侣时，想的并不是‘将来和她建立关系能获得更低的汽车保险费率’。

And I think it's a feature not a bug Because if men want to have relationships and quite frankly sex I didn't see my partner at the pool at the Raleigh Hotel in South Beach and think I would like someday to have a relationship with her to get lower rates on auto insurance.

我看着她时，坦白说想的是‘我非常想和那个女人发生关系’，这种欲望之火可能具有破坏性。

I saw her and thought quite frankly I would really like to have sex with that woman and that desire, that fire can be destructive.

但大多数时候，这种火被引擎驯服后就能创造进步。

But most of the time it's fire that's captured in an engine and creates progress.

这种进步体现在保持身材、提升着装品位、建立声誉、成为供养者、培养毅力，以及发展我认为贯穿人生多维度的关键能力——承受拒绝的能力。

Progress towards being fit, being a better dresser, having a rep, being a provider, having perseverance, and developing what I think is the key skill in life across multiple dimensions and that is the ability to endure rejection.

你在这里建立的一切都不是凭空出现的。

All the shit you've built here, this didn't just happen.

我唯一知道的是，这其中包含了无数次的拒绝——这种能力至今仍在。

The only thing I know that was involved in this was a lot of no's the ability Still today.

那种被迎面痛击后，仍能站起来，掸去灰尘，重返赛场的能力。

The ability to get hit in the face, beamed in the face, get up, dust up, and get back to the plate.

我认为男性在追求关系过程中培养的许多技能不仅具有启发性，更是他们人生其他领域发展的关键。

And I think a lot of the skills men develop pursuing relationships are not only informative and educational but really key to developing skills across the rest of their lives.

如果你见过这样的人——你觉得他们才华横溢却赚得超出预期，或是伴侣比他们更优秀迷人——我几乎可以断定他们掌握了一项关键技能：用勺子吃饭的能力。而人生每个重大机遇背后，都堆积着无数次的拒绝。

And if you ever see someone where you think, oh, they're talented but they seem to have made more money than I would have guessed or they're with someone higher character and more attractive in them, I can almost guarantee you that one skill set and that is the ability to get out a spoon and eat and every great yes in your life will involve one thing and that is a ridiculous number of no's come before it.

最近有个惊人数据：18至24岁男性中，40%从未当面邀请过女性约会。

And there's a scary stat that just came out that 40% of men eighteen to twenty four have never asked a woman out in person.

哇，真的吗？

Wow, really?

所以如果你作为男性，能主动接近女性，在表达爱慕之情的同时让她感到安全，你几乎已经超越了半数男性。

So if you're a dude that's willing to go up to a woman, figure out a way to express romantic interest while making her feel safe, you're almost already in the top half of men.

但现在的男性不再主动追求女性——这只是我的观察所得。

But men aren't approaching women and this is anecdotal evidence.

这方面我没有具体数据。

I don't have data on this.

但当我经常外出时，和单身女性交谈时她们会说：我在这儿，我单身，我准备好社交了。

But when I go out to places on a regular basis, when I speak to single women, they'll say, I'm here, I'm single, I'm ready to mingle.

看看我，我看起来棒极了。

Look at me, I look amazing.

她们确实在发出信号，没错。

They're signaling it, yes.

却没有男性来接近我。

And no men approach me.

且不论《大西洋月刊》《纽约时报》怎么说，80%的女性仍表示希望男性主动搭讪。

And regardless of what The Atlantic, The New York Times will say, 80% of women still say they want the man to make the approach.

她们不想主动接近男性。

They don't want to be approaching men.

对五分之四的女性来说，主动搭讪就是感觉不自然。

It just doesn't feel natural for four out of five women.

我担心男性正受到诱惑，接收着混乱的信息。

And I worry that men are being tempted, have been getting mixed messages.

没有男人想成为那种人，对吧？

No guy wants to be that guy, right?

笨拙地接近别人，结果不顺利，就这么

Makes an approach, inartful, doesn't go well, off Just

被嘲笑或被拒绝。

laughed at or gets rejected.

或者

Or

结果发现我们都在谷歌工作，现在我就成了那种人。

it ends up we both work at Google And now I'm that guy.

而且这确实会有职业上的后果。

And there's actual professional ramifications.

一旦有女性在职场上说（无论公平与否）'哦对，那家伙在酒吧搭讪我'

Mean the moment a woman says at work fairly or unfairly, oh yeah, that guy, he hit on me at a bar.

他就是个变态。

He's a creep.

所以我认为男性追求浪漫和性关系是特性而非缺陷。

So I think that men wanting to pursue romantic and sexual relationships is a feature not a bug.

而我们却将其妖魔化和病态化了。

And we demonized and pathologized it.

我认为我们现在正达到一个阶段，人们意识到男性作为主动方——我不想用‘激进’这个词因为它有负面含义——当我指导年轻男性时，我告诉他们需要主动与陌生人建立联系，我们有个练习叫‘学会接受拒绝’。

And I think we're now getting to a point where people realize that men being initiators and I don't want say aggressive because that has negative overtones but when I coach young men one of the things I tell them is they need to put themselves in the agency of strangers And then we have a practice called no, get to no.

表达柏拉图式的友谊。

Express platonic friendship.

嘿，想一起喝杯啤酒看比赛吗？

Hey, you want to grab a beer and watch the game?

同时也可能是浪漫的邀约。

And then also maybe romantic interests.

有兴趣一起喝杯咖啡吗？

Would you be interested in grabbing coffee?

首先你得打开话题，建立某种融洽关系，比如问对方来自哪里等等。

First you got to open, establish some sort of rapport, where are you from, etcetera.

关键在于学会接受拒绝

And then the key is no.

因为接下来你会怎么做？第二天你会打电话给我，而我会问'你还好吗？'

Because what you're gonna do is you're gonna call me the next day and I'm gonna say how are you?

然后他们会说'哦，我没事'

And they're gonna say, oh, I'm fine.

关键就在于培养这种心理韧性

And that's the key is developing those calluses.

我还活着

I'm alive.

是啊，我没事

Yeah, I'm fine.

我

I'm

活着

alive.

顺便说一句，她也很好。

By the way, she's fine too.

她也很好。

She's fine too.

如果你分不清表达柏拉图式兴趣和浪漫兴趣与骚扰某人之间的区别，那你还有更大的问题要解决。

And if you don't know the difference between expressing platonic and romantic interest and harassing someone, you got much bigger problems.

但如今男性甚至在哪里能找到合适的场合来练习这些呢？

But where do men even have the venues to do that right now?

所以作为供养者，我认为你必须在资本主义社会中具备经济生存能力。

So provider, I think you got to be economically viable in a capitalist society.

我认为社会对你自尊的评价方式是不公平的。

I think your own self esteem, the way society judges you is unfairly.

这种不公平体现在对男性经济生存能力的评判上。

It's unfairly based on the economic viability for men.

这种不公平体现在对女性外貌条件的评判上。

It's unfairly based on the aesthetic qualities of women.

我并不是说世界应该这样，但现实就是如此。

I'm And not saying this is the way the world should be, but it is the way the world is.

第二点，要立即转向保护。

And then two, immediate move to protection.

我认为这是拥有一定繁荣时最令人满足的事。

I think that's the most rewarding thing about having some prosperity.

当我感觉孩子们安全、伴侣被关注时，那是我最安心、最有使命感的时刻。

That's when I feel most at rest and most of purpose when I feel like my kids are safe, my partner feels noticed.

我觉得自己可以参与伟大的慈善事业。

I feel like I can get involved in great charities.

我现在说了很多道德标榜的话，但这是事实——这给了我使命感，让我感到强大。

I'm doing a lot of virtue signaling right now but it's true but that gives me a sense of purpose and makes me feel strong.

最后我认为，我们应该赞赏年轻人对建立关系的渴望。

And then finally I think we've got to celebrate young men's desire to be in relationships.

我觉得这是个优点，

I think it's a feature,

不是缺陷。

not a bug.

我认为当男性学会提升自我以吸引女性伴侣或成为更好的人时，社会会变得更美好。

Well, I think society is better when men learn to improve themselves so they can attract a female partner or partner where they can be a better human being.

他们能够为伴侣提供支持。

They can provide to that partner.

他们也会变得不那么自私——希望如此。

They're less selfish, hopefully.

他们会更多地思考如何为朋友、家庭和社区服务。

They're more, you know, thoughtful about how they can serve their friends, their family, their community.

如果你遇到一个能通过自我提升吸引健康、有觉知女性的男性

If you find a man like that who can improve their life to attract a healthy, conscious woman

是啊。

Yeah.

当这样的男性找到愿意与其共度余生的伴侣时，世界就会减少战争、苦难、痛苦、侵略、愤怒，以及男性伤害他人的行为。

That wants to be with them, you're going to have less war, less suffering, less pain, less aggression, less anger, and less men hurting other people.

我认为这正是社会所需要的。

And I think that's what we need as society.

我看到你上了《The View》节目，有人发了个反应视频说，斯科特，所以你需要女人来拯救男人。

And I saw you go on The View and there was a reaction video that someone said, you know, okay, Scott, so you need women to come rescue men.

是的。

Yeah.

因为，除非男人身边有个好女人，否则他们就会到处伤害别人，制造混乱。

Because, you know, unless men are with a great woman, then they're gonna be, you know, going around the world hurting people and just, like, causing a mess.

而现在我们得去拯救男人。

And now we have to go and save men Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

你知道，当他们多年来一直压迫我们、伤害我们、打压我们时，这套说辞对我可不管用。

You know, when they've been oppressing us or hurting us for years and pushing us down, like, that doesn't work for me.

那么你对这个怎么看？

So what what are your thoughts around that?

当然。

Sure.

女性们感觉她们已经非常努力了。

It's like women feel like they're already working so hard.

为什么她们现在还得来拯救男人，让他们变得更好呢？

Why do they have to come rescue the man now to be a better man?

是的，所以没有人有义务去服务或拯救男人，尤其是女性。

Yeah, so it's not, nobody has an obligation to service or save men, especially women.

男性必须自我提升。

Men have to level up.

我认为女性不需要降低她们的标准。

I don't think women need to lower their standards.

我告诉女性们同意第二次喝咖啡，因为传统上，正如我们之前提到的，有时需要时间才能发现你对这个男人感兴趣。

I tell women to agree to a second coffee because traditionally, as we've referenced before, sometimes it takes time to find that you're interested in this man.

但我从未以任何方式暗示或表示过。

But I've never ever in any way connoted or intimated.

我觉得法拉的一些评论说，这些男人就是自以为是，觉得女人应该像你说的那样去拯救他们。

And I feel like some of these comments from Farrah, they say, these men are just entitled and feel like and women are, as you said, supposed to come say them.

我认为除非男人提升自己，除非我们实施财政计划恢复所有年轻人的经济活力，否则你不能要求女人降低标准去拯救男人。

I think unless men level up and unless we put in place fiscal programs that restore more economic viability to all young people, you can't tell women to lower their standards and save men.

我理解。

I get it.

我百分之百理解。

I 100% get it.

我认为有三个群体需要在这里提供帮助。

I have three parties that I think need to weigh in here with help.

首先是社会。

One is a society.

我认为我们需要停止经济权力从年轻人向老年人的转移。

I think we need to stop the transfer of economic power from young to old.

我们每年转移1.2万亿美元，这是历史上最大规模的资金转移，从劳动年龄人群流向历史上最富有的一代老年人。

We transfer $1,200,000,000,000 every year, the biggest transfer in history of money from working age people to old people who are the wealthiest generation in history.

我这一代人，与我同龄的人比四十年前富裕了72%。

My generation, people my age are 72% wealthier than they were forty years ago.

40岁以下的人群则比过去贫穷了24%。

People under the age of 40 are 24% less wealthy.

这对男性造成了不成比例的负面影响，他们正落后于女性，因为男性仍然主要被依据经济实力来评价。

This has a disproportionately negative impact on men who are falling behind women because men are still disproportionately evaluated based on their economic viability.

即使碧昂丝在麦当劳工作，她依然可以嫁给Jay Z。

Beyonce could still marry Jay Z if she worked at McDonald's.

反过来却不行。

The opposite is not true.

现实情况是，男性作为浪漫伴侣时，其评价标准往往过度侧重于经济实力。

And the reality is men are evaluated as romantic partners disproportionately based on their economic viability.

因此我们需要财政政策将更多资金——不是直接给男性，而是注入年轻人口袋。

So men need to we need fiscal policies that put more money, I don't think in men's pockets, but in young pockets.

是不是女性会觉得没有经济能力的男性让她们缺乏安全感？

Is that women who are looking that they don't feel safe if a man doesn't have money or is

那些被有钱男性吸引的女性？

that women who are attracted to men with money?

我不确定是否因为她们缺乏安全感，但75%的女性认为经济实力是择偶关键，而男性只有25%这么认为。

That I don't know if it's they don't feel safe but 75% of women say economic viability is key to a partner, only 25% of men.

我是说，你应该见过这种现象。

I mean, you've seen this.

男性在社会经济层面横向或向下择偶，而女性则横向或向上。

Men made socioeconomically horizontally and down, women horizontally and up.

当女性在经济地位上持续提升（这很棒，请不要阻碍这种趋势），可供她们横向或向上选择的男性群体就不断缩小。

And when the pool of horizontal and up because women keep getting taller economically, which is wonderful, don't do anything get in the way of The pool of horizontal and up keeps shrinking.

那么该怎么办呢？

And so what do you do?

我认为我们不需要针对男性的经济平权行动。

I don't think we want economic affirmative action for men.

我认为我们需要做的是阻止财富从年轻一代向老一代转移。

I think what we want is to stop the transfer of wealth from young to old.

美国最大的两项税收减免是房贷利率和资本利得。

The two biggest tax deductions in America are mortgage interest rate and capital gains.

谁拥有房产和股票？

Who owns homes and stocks?

像我这样年纪的人。

People my age.

谁靠当前工作收入和租金赚钱？

Who makes their money from working current income and rents?

年轻人。

Young people.

当年轻群体没有钱时，最终会出现30岁以下女性在恋爱关系中占三分之二，男性只占三分之一的情况。

And when a young group of people does not have money, you end up with women who are two in three women under the age of 30 in a relationship, one in three men.

为什么会这样？

Now why is that?

你觉得这在数学上不可能吗？

You think that's mathematically impossible?

并非如此。

It's not.

因为女性倾向于与年长者交往。

Because women are dating older.

因为她们寻求情感和经济上更可靠的男性。

Because they want more emotionally and economically viable men.

因此我认为我们需要制定政策来提升年轻人的经济地位。

So I think that we need to weigh in with policies that level up young people again.

提高最低工资标准，实施更进步的税收政策。

Raise minimum wage, more progressive tax policy.

企业税率正处于1939年以来的最低水平。

Corporations are paying the lowest tax rate since 1939.

最富有的25个家族仅支付约6%的税率。

The 25 wealthiest families are paying about 6% tax rate.

我们正在经历大规模的经济资源转移。

We just transfer massive economics.

有一种从年轻人向老年人抽离资源的声音。

There's a sucking sound from young people to old people.

我认为这对年轻男性造成了特别严重的伤害。

I think it's taken an especially damaging toll on young men.

其次，我认为像我这样年纪的男性真的需要积极参与并介入年轻男性或男孩的生活

And then the second group is I think men my age really need to lean in and get involved in a young man's life or boy's life

因为我们欠他们一份责任。

because we have a debt.

去指导年轻一代。

To mentor young kids.

嗯，曾经拥有不公平的优势。

Well, had unfair advantage.

我理解那种反感情绪，因为当我看到一个和我同肤色、同性取向、同性别、同年龄段的男性时，我会想：老兄，你们已经领先了三千年，现在却在抱怨男性处境。

And I understand the gag reflex because I see a guy of my skin color, sexual orientation, gender, and age and think, dude, you had a three thousand year head start and you're complaining about men now.

我表示理解。

And I'm like, I get it.

但一个19岁的男性应该为我的优势付出代价吗？

But should a 19 year old male pay the price for my advantage?

所以我们有义务，特别是我这一代的男性，要参与进来并努力帮助他们成长。

So we have an obligation, especially men of my generation, to get involved and try and lift them up.

我还认为女性也扮演着角色，因为我认为我们社会中有一种不健康的思潮，女性和进步人士对年轻男性说你们没有问题，你们本身就是问题。

And then I also think women play a role because I do think there's an unhealthy zeitgeist in our society where women and progressives say to young men you don't have problems, you are the problem.

而答案是你们需要更像女性一样行事，我也不认为这是正确的答案。

And the answer is you need to act more like a woman and I don't think that's the answer either.

我不认为是这样。

I don't think it is.

但有时我觉得——我讨厌这种说法——人们断章取义地说你现在指望女性在终于取得一些进步后还要负责拯救男性。

But I feel like sometimes and I hate this term, people take this stuff out of context and say you're expecting now women are after finally getting some progress are responsible for saving men.

不，她们不需要。

No, they're not.

我们的社会有责任培养健康的下一代，这意味着既要继续推进女性的进步，也要帮助那些无论以何种标准衡量都确实在挣扎的年轻男性，而同理心并非零和游戏。

Our society is responsible for creating a healthy next generation which means continuing the progress of women and also lifting up our young men who by any standard are really struggling and empathy is not a zero sum game.

我们仍然可以认识到女性面临的巨大障碍。

We can still acknowledge the huge obstacles women just face.

你的妻子刚生了双胞胎。

Your wife just had twins.

女性生育后，收入会降至男性的77%。

When women have kids, they go to $0.77 on the dollar.

我们还没有找到方法让女性在生育后保持职业发展轨迹。

We have not figured out a way to maintain a woman's professional trajectory when she has kids.

这是个问题。

That's a problem.

黑人和拉丁裔家庭的平均家庭净资产为22,000美元，白人家庭则为160,000美元，美国仍存在经济隔离。

Black and Latino families have an average household net worth of $22,000 White families 160,000 There's still an economic apartheid in The US.

但我们可以承认这些问题依然存在并努力解决，同时也要意识到如果年轻男性处境艰难，国家和女性就无法持续繁荣，就这样。

But we can acknowledge those problems still exist and work on them, but at the same time also realize the country and women are not going to continue to flourish if young men are flailing, full stop.

所以再次强调，同理心不是零和游戏。

So again, empathy is not a zero sum game.

同性婚姻并未损害传统异性婚姻。

Gay marriage didn't hurt heteronormative marriage.

民权运动没有伤害白人群体。

Civil rights didn't hurt white people.

帮助部分年轻男性，特别是通过经济援助项目支持年轻人，这不会损害女性利益。

Helping some of our young men, and specifically with programs for young people economically, that's not going to hurt women.

这不会以牺牲女性为代价。

It doesn't come at the cost of women.

我厌恶男性圈子的一个观点——传统意义上的男性圈子认为女性地位的提升与男性境遇存在此消彼长的关系。

And one of the things I hate about the manosphere, what people traditionally think is the manosphere, is they believe there is an inverse correlation between women's ascent and how men are doing.

而事实是，如果没有女性地位的提升，我们不可能赢得第二次世界大战。

And the reality is without women's ascent, we wouldn't have won World War II.

希特勒不允许女性进入工厂工作。

Hitler wouldn't let women get into the factories.

他认为女性应该待在家里。

He thought they needed to stay home.

而我们让女性制造P-51野马战斗机。

And we let women build P-fifty one Mustangs.

我们将大量女工派往前线附近。

And we sent a lot of them overseas to be near the front lines.

这直接决定了战争胜负，或是重大贡献因素。

That literally won or was a big contributor to the war.

七八十年代美国女性进入职场，可能是推动美国经济增长的最大动力。

Entering the workforce in the '70s and '80s in The United States is probably the biggest driver of economic growth for The United States.

在期望值不断攀升的资本主义社会，双收入家庭模式至关重要。

And in a capitalist society where our expectations keep going up, having dual income households is really important.

因此我认为女性地位的提升对男性是有增益的。

So I think women's ascent has been accretive to men.

我认为这是件大好事。

I think it's been great.

我们需要年轻男性认清：当他们开始把感情问题归咎女性、把经济问题怪罪移民时，才是真正迷失了方向。

And we need our young men to recognize that when they really lose the script is when they start blaming women for their romantic problems and immigrants for their economic problems.

女性的成功对她们来说是件好事。

That women's success is great for them.

与此同时，我认为我们需要停止这种妖魔化行为——网上有种趋势，女性声称不再约会是因为可能会‘被非自然死亡’，我猜这是个政治正确术语，意思是被杀害、谋杀。

At the same time, I do think that we need to stop this demonizing of there's this thing online, this trend where women say they're not dating any longer because they could be unalived, which I guess is a political exact term, killed, murdered.

非自然死亡。

Unalived.

非自然死亡？

Unalived?

非自然死亡。

Unalived.

是的。

Yeah.

如果她们和某人约会就会被杀？

If they were dating someone they'd be killed?

不完全是，她们不再约会的原因之一是觉得和男性相处存在人身风险，因为男性具有暴力倾向。

Well no, one of the reasons they're no longer dating is they feel like they're taking physical risks being in a man's company because men are violent.

每年有2500名女性被谋杀。

And two thousand five hundred women every year are murdered.

这是个非常严重的问题。

That's a huge problem.

顺便说一句，其中70%是熟人作案。

Seventy percent by the way by people they've known for a while.

但如果你查看实际数据，和男性约会后，他当晚回家后伤害自己的概率是伤害你的16倍。

But if you look at the actual data, if you go on a date with a man, he's 16 times more likely to go home that night and hurt himself than hurt you.

为什么会这样？

Why is that?

我认为男性有时确实... 你看男性正在经历大量自残行为。

I think men sometimes get very look men are engaging in a lot of self harm.

你去停尸房会看到五例自杀死亡，其中四例是男性。要知道你在开车前往的路上受伤或在晚餐时噎住的概率都比这高四倍。

You go into a morgue and there's five people died by suicide four men and you know you're four times more likely to get hurt on the drive over or choke during dinner.

所以我们决定——我认为是算法决定——要把年轻男性直白地塑造成社会危险分子。

So we've decided, I think the algorithms have decided let's portray young men as quite frankly as a danger to society.

而现实是，那些危险的男性——虽然绝大多数并不危险——但少数确实对自身构成威胁。

And the reality is men who are dangerous and the vast majority aren't but the small minority that are dangerous towards themselves.

他们更可能——大多数枪支致死案例是自杀。

They're much more likely, the majority of gun deaths are suicides.

因此我认为我们也需要——我最大的粉丝群体是年轻男性，而最支持我的则是母亲们，因为她们看清了现状。

And so I think that we also need, my biggest fans are young men, my biggest supporters are mothers because they see what's going on.

她们看到我有两个女儿和一个儿子：一个女儿在宾大读书，一个女儿从事公关工作，而儿子则在地下室打电子游戏和吸电子烟。

They see I have two daughters and one son, one daughter at Penn, one daughter in PR, and my son's in the basement playing video games and vaping.

所以我认为需要重新认识我所说的'重建联盟'——历史上最伟大的联盟不是北约或民主国家间的联盟。

So I think that recognizing what I call restoring the alliance and that is the greatest alliance in history is a NATO or between democracies.

历史上最伟大的联盟是男女之间的联盟。

The greatest alliance in history is the alliance between men and women.

我认为家庭中阳刚与阴柔能量的结合能创造最幸福、最高效的家庭环境。

I think a combination of masculine and feminine energy in a household makes the happiest most productive households.

顺便说一句，有时两位女性或两位男性也能形成这种奇妙的化学反应。

And by the way sometimes two women can bring that chemistry or two men can bring that alchemy.

但我认为这种阳刚与阴柔能量的结合是一种美妙的融合。

But that combination of masculine and feminine energy I think is a wonderful mix.

而两性做得最‘出色’的事，就是互相说服自己问题出在对方性别身上。

And what the genders have done a great job of is convincing themselves that it's the other gender's fault.

男性必须停止责怪女性。

Men got to stop blaming women.

这种指责毫无意义。

That just doesn't haunt.

同时我也认为，某些女性和女权主义者——其实算不上真正的女权主义者。

And at the same time I do think that some women and feminists it's actually not feminists.

我称之为进步主义者。

I'll call it progressives.

自由主义与非自由主义思想的对抗。

Liberal versus illiberal thought.

我们只需审视数据就能明白：扶持年轻男性对所有人都有益处。

Just need to look at the data and think, Okay, lifting up our young men is going to be good for everybody.

是的，确实如此。

Yes, it is.

你是否认为我在听你分享女性收入增加、职业不断进步、获得比以往更多机会是件很棒的事？

Do you think I'm hearing you share that it's great that women are earning more and are constantly progressing in their careers and getting more opportunities than ever.

我们希望这种繁荣能持续下去。

And we want to continue that thriving.

同时我们也希望看到男性持续进步，尤其是那些可能已不再具备财务成功所需技能或工具的年轻男性，或者他们尚未找到方法。

And we also want to see men continue to improve, especially young men who maybe don't have the skills anymore, the tools to become financially successful, or they haven't figured it out yet.

你认为有数据显示大多数女性收入超过男性后，仍能在长期浪漫关系中保持对他们的吸引力吗？

Do you think is there any data around the majority of women being able to earn more than men and still be attracted to them in a long term romantic relationship?

或者你见过任何关于女性收入更高却仍能长期被伴侣吸引的数据吗？

Or is there any data that you've seen around that that women can make more and still be attracted to the man they're with long term?

现在17%的家庭中，女性是主要经济支柱。

So 17% of households now, the woman is the primary breadwinner.

因此我认为随着时间的推移，社会正在变得...

And so I do think over time society is becoming

但他们还爱着自己的伴侣吗？

But are they attracted to their partner still?

好吧。

Okay.

仅仅因为在一起并不意味着幸福。

This is Just because they're together doesn't mean it's happy.

理想世界与现实世界的区别在于：当关系中女性收入超过男性时，离婚概率会翻倍。

There's the way the world should be and the way the world The way the world is is the following is that when the woman in the relationship starts making more money than the man the likelihood of divorce doubles.

真的吗？

Really?

男性因自尊心下降和功能障碍问题，使用勃起功能障碍药物的概率会增至三倍。

The use of erectile dysfunction drugs triples because the man feels has less self esteem and has problems.

所以

So

老实说，我不知道该如何跨越这个障碍。

the honest answer is I don't know how to get past.

我们得想办法解决这些问题，然后继续前进

We're going to have to figure out things and we're going

我们得训练我们的...这是生物学原因吗？

to have to train our Is that biology?

这是否与心理学有关，导致当女性比她们的男性伴侣赚得更多时，这些挑战就会出现？

Is that like psychology around that causes these things to these challenges to arise when women earn more than the men they're with?

我认为这非常具有人类学意义，女性天生觉得她们的职责或需要关注的事情之一是如何保护后代，她们需要与一个强大、能够保护她们及后代的人结为伴侣

I think it's very anthropological and that is women feel innately that their job or one of the things they need to be focused on is how to protect offspring and they need to partner with someone who's strong and can protect them and their offspring.

而在资本主义社会里，力量往往与经济实力混为一谈

And in a capitalist society, strength is conflated with economic power.

所以这一点毫无疑问

So there's just no doubt about it.

那么如果一个女性在经济、情感和身体上都更强大，那是不是意味着她就不需要男人了，对吧？

So if a woman is stronger financially, emotionally, physically, then it's like, do you need the man then, right?

嗯，事实上70%的离婚申请是由女性提出的，离婚率上升可能是件好事，因为女性不再感到经济上的束缚或依赖

Well, so 70% of divorce filings are by women and actually the increase in divorce rates is probably a good thing because women no longer feel economically indentured or dependent upon Not

不再因此被困住。

trapped anymore yet from that.

但这确实无法回避。

But there's just no getting around it.

根据数据来看，男性似乎需要继续想办法比伴侣赚得更多，才能拥有更幸福的婚姻。

Men So need to continue to figure out how to earn more than the partners they're with in order to have a happier marriage, it sounds like based on the data.

但至少，当女性在经济上崛起时，关系本质上就成了一种交易。

But also at a minimum, if a woman ascends economically relationships at the end of the day are somewhat of a transaction.

当女性经济地位上升时，你会发现男性在后勤、情感和家务方面并没有跟上步伐。

If a woman is ascending economically, what you see is men aren't stepping up logistically and emotionally and domestically.

他们没有在非经济领域保持同步成长。

They're not keeping pace without ascent.

不。

No.

于是关系中的女性最终会算这笔账，并意识到：好吧，我才是养家糊口的人。

And so at some point, the woman in the relationship does the math and says, Okay, I'm the provider.

我是生育者。

I'm the procreator.

而你在家里毫无作为。

And you aren't stepping up at home.

那我肯定要离开。

Then I'm definitely out of here.

我认为经营关系和推动关系发展是有区别的——很多女性作为主要经济支柱的夫妻其实可以共同克服这个问题。

So there's a difference between, I think, working on the relationship and trying to evolve the relationship, which I think a lot of couples where the woman is the primary breadwinner, I think they can work through it.

他们完全有可能拥有幸福的婚姻。

There's no reason they can't have happy marriages.

但这就是无法回避的事实。

But there's just no getting around it.

数据显示，当女性成为经济支柱时，与生俱来的性吸引力就会面临危机。

The data shows that innate sexual attraction is at risk when the woman is the provider.

哇。

Wow.

我并不是说这种情况无法维系，但大量数据显示，当男性无法胜任或削弱了经济支柱的角色时，女性会对其失去性趣。

And I'm not saying that that can't work, but there's just a lot of data that women lose sexual interest in a man when he fails as a provider or diminishes as a provider.

这种分歧或下滑的催化剂或助推剂，在于男性没有在生活的其他方面承担起责任。

The cocktail or the afterburner, the fuel on top of that division or descent is that when men don't step up in the other parts of the life.

他们没有履行自己的角色。

They don't own their role.

如果他们不参与支持整个家庭或任何形式的共同责任，就显得不够慷慨或体贴。

They're not generous or they're not kind if they're not contributing to Supporting a whole whole whatever it might be.

我认为作为经济支柱的一部分，有时坦率地说就是要退居二线，更支持可能在理财方面更擅长的伴侣。

I think being part of a provider is quite frankly sometimes getting out of the way and being more supportive of your partner who might be better at that whole money thing.

我认为我们必须解决这个问题，并培养我们的男孩在情感、事务和家务方面都能挺身而出。

And I think we're going to have to figure this out and train our boys to step up emotionally and logistically and domestically.

因为现实是，医学院和法学院的女性比例越来越高。

Because the reality is more women are in medical school, more women are in law school.

未来五年内，大学毕业生中女性与男性的比例很可能会达到二比一。

We're probably going to have two to one female to male college grads in the next five years.

因此女性占比会越来越高，那个17%的数字还会持续增长。

And so women more and more that 17% number is going to grow.

所以我们必须找到方法来训练我们的声音。

So we have to figure out a way to train our voices.

作为供养者的一部分，是要在多方面做出贡献。

Part of being a provider is contributing on a lot of different dimensions.

但同样，职业培训领域也有大量主流工作岗位。

But also, there are a ton of mainstream jobs in vocational programming.

在英国和德国，11%的领英资料标注了'学徒'身份。

11% of LinkedIn profiles in The UK and Germany say apprentice.

而在美国这个比例只有3%。

It's 3% in The US.

我们没有学徒文化，而且还贬低职业工种。

We don't have an apprentice culture, and we have shamed vocational jobs.

不知道你是否看过这些报道，现在有很多高中生年纪的年轻男孩正在学习安装高效节能的HVAC暖气系统，到毕业时年薪能达到8万甚至9万美元。

I don't know if you've seen all these articles, but there's now a bunch of juniors and 17 year old men in high school who are learning how to install HVAC energy efficient heaters and making 80,000 or $90,000 a year by their senior year.

实际上有很多现成的职业岗位，虽然我们不愿承认，但男性似乎确实更享受这类工作，而且坦白说，平均而言他们在需要体力或户外作业的职业中往往表现更出色

There's actually a lot of vocational jobs ready and we hate to admit this but men seem to enjoy and quite frankly on average not always be better at this type of vocational work that require sometimes strength or working out

也许待会儿在外面说吧

Maybe later outside.

因此我们需要帮助男性提升自我，因为我认为问题不在于——我不认为当女性收入高出一美元时，就必然会导致男性地位下降、焦虑、性吸引力缺失或所谓的性张力消散

And so we need to help men level up because I don't think it's what I don't think it is I don't think the descent or the anxiety or the lack of sexual chemistry, the sexual diffusion if you will necessarily happens once the woman is making a dollar more.

坦白说，关键在于当男方...好吧，经济上或许你没能与我同步，但你却毫无贡献

It's quite frankly when the guy, okay, economically maybe you're not there with me but you're not contributing.

你没有创造额外的价值

You're not adding that surplus of value.

并没有

There's not.

你总得有所贡献，对吧？

You got to bring something to the table, right?

而传统上这些角色界定得非常明确

And traditionally the roles are very defined.

女性往往更富有同理心，比男性更懂得如何营造一个健康有爱的家庭环境，这就是我们所说的被低估的情感劳动。

The female offered kind of more empathetic, understood how to create a healthy, loving household better than men, kind of what we call the emotional labor that's been undervalued.

男性在这方面并没有挺身而出。

Men aren't stepping up around that.

所以这是一个非常坦诚的对话。

So it's a very honest conversation.

就像，好吧，你妻子做得很好。

It's like, okay, your wife's doing great.

你想要支持她，因为你需要钱，需要维持家庭经济。

You want to be supportive of her because you need money, you need economic household.

但老实说，老板，你能提供什么价值呢？

But quite frankly, boss, what are you bringing to the table?

你是否觉得在某些方面——我举个例，这只是其中一个例子。

Do you feel like in some ways I'm going give an example, and this is just one example.

但你是否觉得在某些方面，女性被欺骗了，被告知必须追求事业、尽可能多赚钱、推迟生育、推迟结婚，直到经济稳定为止？

But do you feel in some ways that women have been lied to around the need to be career driven and earn as much as possible and delay having kids and delay getting married as long as you can until you're financially stable.

我会给你一些背景信息，也许这要具体情况具体分析。

And I'll give you context around this, and maybe it's just case by case.

我认识一个人——我不想点名道姓——这个人过去十二三年里一直非常专注于事业，从大学开始就如此，但总显得有点沮丧、有点不开心，总觉得哪里不太对劲，嗯。

There's someone I know, I'm not going to call them out, but there's someone I know who is very career focused and driven on their career for probably the last twelve or thirteen years and since college and just always seemed a little frustrated, always seemed a little unhappy, just always seemed like a little, I don't know, something was always off Mhmm.

这个人的整体状态就是如此。

Around the energy of this person.

他们大约半年前刚有了孩子，而我从未见过他们如此快乐的样子。

And they just had a child, you know, maybe six months ago, and I've never seen them happier.

每次见面都感觉他们焕然一新。

Every time around, it's like something transformed.

是啊。

Yeah.

而且她非常热爱做母亲的感觉。

And there's and it's like she loves being a mother.

她说这彻底改变了她的世界，是往好的方向。

She she's like, it is just changed her world in a positive way.

从能量层面看，她仿佛找到了人生目标。

Energetically, it's like it's like she's on purpose.

嗯。

Mhmm.

她并没有停止工作。

And she hasn't stopped working.

她回去兼职了一段时间，但我能明显感觉到她整个人都焕发了生机。

She's gone back kind of part time, but it's like, I can just see her come alive.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你是否认为女性某种程度上被误导了——被告知要尽可能推迟生育、先拼命赚钱、实现财务稳定、发展事业、不要依赖男人来做这些事？

And do you think there's in any way women have been lied to about delay having kids as long as possible, make as much as money as you can, be financially stable first, develop yourself in your career, don't rely on the man to to to do this.

否则你就会陷入困境。

Otherwise, you get it screwed over.

而我亲眼见证了过去六个月里，有人因为成为母亲这个角色而获得了前所未有的快乐。

Where I just saw someone have the most joy in the last six months of like stepping into this role as a mother.

也许这只是个例，但你怎么看？

Maybe that's just one case, but what are your thoughts I on

我认为这种'你被骗了，你努力工作，事业有成，现在却因为没花时间找个男人或组建家庭而痛苦'的说法。

think this sort of you've been lied to, you worked hard, you became a baller professionally, now you're miserable because you didn't take the time to find a man or have a family.

我觉得这有点像是极右翼的陈词滥调或神话，他们想把女性带回到五六十年代——因为如果那个女性既找不到浪漫伴侣，又经济拮据呢？

I think that's a little bit of this trope or this myth from the far right that wants to take women back to the 50s and 60s because okay, what if that woman also wasn't able to find a romantic partnership and was also economically insecure?

确实。

True.

所以我发现有时这只是个借口，试图让女性权利倒退和废除。

So I find sometimes that's an excuse to try and take to regress and repeal women's rights.

现实情况是，如果一个男人专注于事业，身材走样，性格也不太好，但事业很成功，他仍然能找到伴侣。

Now the reality is if a man focuses on his career and is out of shape, not especially nice, but a baller professionally, he's still gonna find a mate.

但对女性来说就不那么适用了。

And that's not as true for women.

律师事务所的男性合伙人，即使长相普通，性格不太好，也不够体贴，他照样能找到老婆。

A partner at a law firm who's a male who's maybe just modestly attractive and not that nice and not that nurturing, he's gonna find a wife.

坦白说，我觉得这有点不公平，因为我们赋予女性同样的经济责任和期望，但在浪漫和性方面却没有给予与男性同等专注所获得的回报。

I'm not sure, I mean it's just a little bit unfair quite frankly because we put the same economic responsibilities on women and the same expectations, but we don't reward them romantically and sexually with the same currency as we reward a man for that focus.

说实话，我认为女性追求经济独立、享受在财务和专业领域获得陌生人掌声的愿望，我们需要更多这样的例子。

So quite frank, but I don't think, I think women wanting to be economically independent and enjoy having strangers applaud for them on a stage financially and professionally, I think we need more of it.

我确实认为无论男女都需要真正努力去接触他人，保持亲和力，勇于说‘好’，让自己置身于可能遇到合适对象的环境中。

I do think that both men and women need to make a real effort to approach people, be approachable, say yes, put yourself in situations where you might meet somebody.

如果第一次约会没有火花，不妨给第二次咖啡约会一个机会。

Maybe if there's not sparks on the first date, give a second coffee a chance.

但我不喜欢这种关于女性被欺骗、应该赤脚在家怀孕的权利论调或叙事。

But this notion I don't like the rights trope or this narrative around women being lied to and they should be home barefoot and pregnant.

我只是觉得这某种程度上无意中暗示了

I just think that's kind of inadvertently saying

这不是我在政治立场上表达的观点。

This is not me politically saying these things.

我只是好奇，坦白说这就是

I'm just curious about like Quite frankly this is what

查理·柯克说女性很痛苦，但数据恰恰相反，因为真正痛苦的是那些30多岁醒来却仍单身的男性。

Charlie Kirk said that women are miserable and here's the data flies in the face of that because you know who's really miserable is the dude that wakes up in his 30s and isn't in a relationship.

数据非常明确。

The data is pretty clear.

男性比女性更需要恋爱关系。

Men need relationships more than women.

我在书里提到一个引发争议的观点——我告诉儿子们，只要有女性在场就该由他们买单，虽然这招致批评，但我坚持坦诚相告。

One of the things I say in the book that's gotten some push pushback is and I try to be very honest, I tell my boys that if they're ever in the company of women, they pay.

人们说这是性别歧视。

People say, that's sexist.

我认为这就是性别歧视。

I think it's sexist.

我觉得这是慷慨之举。

I think it's generous.

这是在创造价值。

It's adding value.

这是礼貌的表现。

It's being courteous.

这是体贴的行为。

It's being thoughtful.

这就像，为什么这就性别歧视了？

It's That's like, why is that sexist?

韦兰，你能主动提出付款吗？

Way land Can you offer to pay?

如果她们拒绝，那好吧你就不必付了。

If they say no then okay you don't have to.

不，你

No you

主动提出，我认为你应该直接付钱。

offer, I think you just pay.

现在我要进行我的土地致谢了。

And I'll give my land acknowledgement now.

我试图提出的理论依据是，男性从两性关系中获得的收益比女性更多。

So the rationale that I try and propose is that men benefit more from relationships than women.

数据显示寡妇在丈夫去世后往往更快乐，而鳏夫则相反。

There's just widow's happier after their husband dies, widower is less happy.

女性的生育窗口期远比男性短暂。

A woman's fertility window is much shorter than a man's.

性行为对女性可能造成的负面影响远大于男性。

The downside of sex for a woman is much greater than a man's.

风险更大，确实。

Bigger risk, yeah.

当你考虑到男性平均从关系中获益更多这个事实，女性在生育期更短的情况下承担着更大的风险，同时几乎所有哺乳动物都有某种求偶仪式时。

So when you look at the fact that on average a man's going to benefit more from the relationship, that the woman is taking more risks in terms of downside of risk when her fertility window is shorter and when you also acknowledge that almost every mammal has some sort of courtship ritual.

通过某种方式承认这种不对称性是有道理的。

It makes sense for one way that you recognize that asymmetry.

你需要主动站出来表示'我重视你的时间'。

One way you step up and say I value your time.

我会珍惜这种情况，如果你愿意这么理解的话。

I value this situation if you will.

一个简单的方式来认识和承认这种不对称性就是买单，而且本质上无论别人怎么说，我告诉我18岁儿子的是：任何时候你与人分摊账单，就意味着你们永远不会亲吻彼此。

One easy way to recognize and acknowledge that asymmetry is to pay and also innately regardless of what someone might say what I've told my 18 year old son is anytime you split the check with anyone it means they are never going to kiss you and you are never going to kiss them.

这就是底线，我认为这些基因已经在我们体内存在了几千年，无论我们怎么辩解'是谁先约的谁'。

That's the bottom line and I think those genes are wired into us for thousands of years and regardless of what we say well it's who asked who out.

我只是在告诉我的儿子们，在我看来，如果你和女性在一起，就该由你买单。

I'm just saying to my boys in my view that if you're in the company of women you pay.

对于像你这样身材很好的人来说，并不一定是因为保持好身材的美观性。

To guys like you would who are in great shape is not necessarily because of the aesthetics of being a great shape.

是自律。

The discipline.

这表明你出现了。

It says you show up.

这表明你能对某事做出承诺。

It says you can commit to something.

这表明你状态很好。

It says that you're on your game.

这说明你没有每晚都烂醉如泥。

It says you're not fucked up every night.

这表明你知道如何每天坚持做一件事并为之投入。

It says that you know how to show up every day and do something and commit to something.

但话说回来，我的观点是回到那个话题——我认为女性在职业上的崛起对她们非常有益。

But anyways my point is that going back to that I think women's professional ascent is great for them.

我认为从长远来看，这对社会和男性都有好处。

I think over the long term it's great for society and great for men.

但我们也必须认识到，当男性在经济上落后于女性时，社会会产生一些外部效应和连锁反应。

But we also have to recognize there's just some externalities and some knock on effects when we're in a society where men are falling behind women economically.

不要阻碍这个过程。

Don't get in the way of this.

解决这个问题。

Fix this.

让男性重回正轨。

Get men back on track.

我甚至不喜欢任何专门针对男性经济状况的项目，除了在职业培训上加大投入、增加大学新生名额。

And I don't even like any program that specifically targets men economically other than investing more in vocational programming, expanding freshman seats.

我建议的是一系列能提升所有年轻人水平的公共政策项目。

What I'm suggesting is a series of public policy programs that would lift all young people up.

因为重点不在于男方必须比女方多赚——如果恋爱中的女方年薪8万美元，男方不需要赚8万1，但他需要以某种方式做出贡献。

Because it's not about the guy making if the woman's in the relationship is making $80,000 it's not about the guy needing to make 81 but the guy needs to be sort of in a way contributing.

他需要达到能做出贡献的层次。

He needs to be in that weight class where he's contributing.

我认为可悲的是，现在很多年轻男性沉迷于网络虚拟生活，最终毫无技能，也没有为感情关系付出努力的能力。

And I think unfortunately a lot of men right now, young men are seduced by having a reasonable fact somebody of life online and then show up with no skills and no ability to contribute to a relationship.

再说一次，当女性没有恋爱关系时，她们会把精力投入到朋友和事业中。

And again when a woman doesn't have a romantic relationship she pours that energy into her friends and her professional life.

当男性没有恋爱关系时，虽然不总是但常常会把精力（消耗在其他地方）

When a man doesn't have a relationship not always but often he pours that

把精力投入到破坏性的事情上，对吧？

energy Destructive things, right?

沉迷于网络阴谋论，极度依赖网络。

Into conspiracy theory online goes extremely online.

所有这些大规模枪击犯——我研究过政治暴力。

All these mass shooters I did some research on political violence.

极左派想打击极右派。

And the far left wants to bring the far right.

极右派则想归咎于极左派。

Far right wants to blame the far left.

这完全是空洞的争论。

And it's a totally hollow argument.

98.6%的大规模枪击犯是男性。

98.6% of mass shooters are men.

几乎所有的政治暴力不仅由男性实施，而且主要是年轻男性。

Almost all political violence is committed not only by men but young men.