第329集：制琴师与复杂性难题

对吧？显然，你们是轮流放置，但行动执行非常快速，以便他们能抢占位置。这也是一个可以稍作调整的有趣机制。对吧？因为你有那些助手，能在这里那里增强你的行动。

Right? Obviously, you're taking turns putting it out, but it's a real fast kind of taking actions so that they can build up on the spaces. And it's also a fun mechanism you could kind of tinker with. Right? Because you have those assistants that'll help boost your actions here and there.

看，这有点像在暗示什么对某些人重要。所以它帮助你在那种规划阶段做出决策。而且它让游戏持续进行，每个人都始终保持投入，因为结算按玩家顺序进行，但你可能也会参与其中。你知道吧？因为他们通常会选择你也涉及的事情。

See, it kind of gives a little bit of a telegraph of what is important to certain people. So it helps you make decisions in that sort of, that planning phase. And it keeps the game constantly moving and everybody is constantly engaged because the resolution then is in player order, but you're probably gonna be involved in it too. You know? Because they're gonna pick something that you're involved in generally.

所以这是一个非常酷且引人入胜的工人放置循环机制。设计得非常出色。

So this is a really cool and engaging, round robin of of worker placement. It's very well done.

另外当你考虑到学徒时我有点惊讶。背后有些数学机制在运作，我不完全确定具体是什么。但我觉得这不是什么高深的数学。关键在于你初始拥有1、3和5点值的工人。嗯。

Plus when you think about the apprentices and I was sort of surprised. There's some math going on behind the scenes, and I'm not sure exactly what it is. But the fact that I don't think it's deep math or anything. But the fact is that, you know, you start with your one, three, and five. Mhmm.

许多版图位置的奖励效果是通过放置4点值触发的。没错。所以放置3和1点值就很划算。如果你要在自己版图上完成乐器，放置5和1点值也很好，因为这样得到6点值，若获得首席位置还能获得双倍奖励。这种工人数值可调节的设计真的很巧妙。

And many of the board locations are triggered at a a little that bonus effect at a location is triggered by having a four there. Right. So placing a three and a one is good. If you're finishing an instrument on your own board, placing a five and a one is good because you got a six there, and it gives you double the the the first chair bonus if you get the first chair. So it's really cool how you have your worker values, but you can modify them.

实际上你还可以借此干扰其他玩家。比如在行会行动时，我有时会特意放置超过4点的值，这样能获得勋章和自选资源——99%的情况我会选金属，因为这是游戏里最珍贵的资源。我其实不在乎那个位置何时触发，反正迟早能拿到金属，对吧？

And in fact, you can use that to sort of mess with other people too. I know that in the guild, sometimes I'll go there just to go with something higher than four because I'm getting a medal and another resource of my choice, which 99% of the time is gonna be metal because it's the most, you know, valuable thing in the game. And I don't really care, you know, when that space goes off. I'm gonna get that metal whenever. Right?

我并不是在争夺现有乐器。其他玩家不知道这点。所以当他们看到你放置工人时，会以为'这人急需优先选择乐器'，于是全力投入某个位置，不得不放置高数值工人。

I'm not fighting over the the instruments that are available. Other people don't know that. So when you place your work out there, they'll be like, oh, really need first choice of these instruments. And so they go all in on something. They have to put a big thing there.

当我只放1点值，对方却过度反应地用6点值（比如5点加另一个学徒）时特别有趣。所以这里确实存在一些心理博弈，我非常喜欢这个设计。

And it's sort of funny when I've got my one there, and they've gone over the top with, a six, you know, a five and another apprentice or something. So, yeah, there's a little bit of sort of some mind games going on there too, think, which I like a lot.

没错。你刚才提到这里存在助手层与数值层的设计，还有先后顺序层——因为平局时按放置顺序决胜负对吧？所以需要思考行动顺序策略。而且我特别喜欢同一个位置可以放置多个工人的设定。

Yeah. And and you were talking about how there's sort of, like, a layer there of, like, the the the assistant plus the the values, and there's also the layer of going there first because tie breaking is done in the order of placement. Right? So there's a thought about what order you wanna go in places. And I loved that you could put multiple people on the space too.

所以，比如，有些回合我会去表演场地三次，这样整个地方都堆满了我的东西。对吧？所以我很可能是第一个去的，也很可能拿到多个东西。有时候我特意去那里就是为了拿次要行动，因为那是一个——或者说是奖励行动——因为我在那里掷出了4点以上。所以这个非常简单的工人放置概念其实有很多层次。

So, like, there was turns where I was like, I'm gonna go to the performance space, like, three times with so the whole thing was stacked with my stuff. Right? So chances are I was gonna be first, and chances are I was gonna get multiple things. And sometimes I I just went there specifically to get the secondary action, because that was a or the the the bonus action because I got a four plus there. So it was it's there's a lot of layers to this, very simple concept for worker placement.

比如，有六个位置。我觉得有六个。一、二、三、四，可能五个位置吧。五个在

Like, there's six spaces. There's I think there's six. Four, two, three, four, I think five spaces maybe. Five on

主板上，两个在你自己的板上。

the board, two on your own board.

哦，两个在自己板上。没错。是的。所以有那么多位置，你只是放个人上去，但需要思考的层次却非常多。这很棒。

Oh, two on your own board. That's right. Yeah. So there's a there's that many spaces, and you're just placing a guy out, but yet there's so many layers to to think through. It's great.

这真是一个非常酷且创新的工人放置系统。

It's just a really cool and innovative worker placement system.

是的。我完全同意。你还得结合那些可以升级的轨道，比如表演轨道——嗯——或者维修轨道，或者声望轨道。所有这些在某个阶段都会给你特殊工人。

Yeah. I completely agree with you. You also combine that with the the tracks you can go up, the performance track Mhmm. Or the repair track or the reputation track. And all those things give they give you special workers at some points.

就像，它确实——是的。他们在这款游戏中实现工人放置的方式有很多精妙之处。

Like, it's just there yeah. There's a lot of goodness in how they've implemented worker placement in this game.

唐，我确实想谈谈那些轨道。我非常喜欢你从那些轨道上获得的东西，但有两个地方我不太满意。第一，我希望它们是模块化的，这样这些轨道能在不同位置提供不同的奖励，让游戏体验有所变化。这只是一个很轻微的批评，但我确实注意到了这一点。

I do wanna talk about those tracks, Don. I I like what you get off those tracks a lot, but I've there was two things that I disliked about them. Number one, I wish that there was, if I wish they were modular so that those tracks would change what they give you Oh. At different places to that would sort of change things up a little bit. Now that's just a very light criticism, but I I noticed that.

我当时想，这都印在版图上了，但我还是希望它能模块化。另一个我不喜欢的地方——这就要和今年最佳设计游戏之一《沙克尔顿基地》做对比了。这个机制和沙克尔顿基地非常相似，都是通过版图顶部的胜利点条件，你需要占据一个行动格并在那条轨道上前进。

I was like, it's printed on the board. I kinda want that to be modular. The other thing I don't like, and this is gonna be a comparison to, one of the best games designed this year, and that's Shackleton base. This has a very similar concept to Shackleton base with those victory point conditions that are across the top of the board. You have to take an action space and move up that track Mhmm.

来实现那些目标得分，对吧？我不喜欢的是得分还需要消耗一个行动。在沙克尔顿基地里，你达成条件就直接得分。就像，只要你达到了，就自动计分，不需要额外行动。

To take the to get the to score those goals. Right? I don't like that you need to take an action to score those goals. In Shackleton base, you just score them. Like, if you got them, you score them, and it doesn't take an action.

我觉得这有点扫兴，因为总想着‘哦，我得省下一个行动来拿这些胜利点’。我宁愿在达成成就时就直接获得奖励。你明白吗？听着，我这其实是在绞尽脑汁找茬了。

I found that kinda spoiled my fun a little bit thinking, oh, I gotta save an action to take those victory points. I'd rather it just be when I achieve something, I get the accolades. You know? And listen. This is me stretching for things to criticize.

我正想说，确实，这是个小问题。但那个行动格也让我有点困扰，不过原因不太一样。

I was gonna say, yeah, it's a small thing. But I will say that that space bothers me a little bit too, but for different reasons.

哦，是吗？

Oh, yeah?

是的。我发现如果我是最后行动顺位，就不得不派个工人去末尾位置。我的意思是，你不能只是...对，因为所有好位置都被占完了。特别是在游戏初期，你三个工人中总得派一个去那边——虽然不是强制，但连续两三轮待在行动顺位末尾真的很难熬。

Yeah. I found out that if I'm last in turn order, like, you kinda gotta send a worker to the back. I mean, you can't just be Yeah. Last internal because everything's taken from you. So especially at the beginning of the game, it's like, man, you you sorta gotta send one of your three you don't have to, but, man, between a two rounds or three rounds in the back end of the turn order just it's really hard to get through.

所以在某个时刻，你必须派一个工人去那里，而你只有三个工人。也就是说，你回合中能执行的动作有三分之一都要用在那里。虽然你能因此获得一些资源，比如金钱或学徒，所以也有积极的一面。但对我来说，这确实是个无聊的行动。

So at some point, you gotta send a worker there, and you only got three workers. So you're talking, you know, one third of the actions you can do on your turn are going there. Now you get some resources for it, some money or some apprentices. So there are positives. But, yeah, that's that's a boring action to me.

我有点...是的。就是这样。有些地方...第一个玩家并不完全按照桌游轮转机制

I kinda Yes. That's it. Some very where you you the first player just doesn't rotate around a table a

稍微调整一下。

little bit.

对吧？说得对，Don。我觉得这个说法很到位。这就是个无聊的行动。确实如此。

Right? Right, Don. I think that is a great way to put it. It's a boring action. And Yeah.

他们把很多东西都堆在一起。说起来很有意思，因为我差点忘了。哦对，还有玩家顺序机制。这个完全从我脑子里跳出去了。

They lump a lot of stuff. Because it's funny because I forgot. Oh, yeah. That's also the turn order thing. It just, like, totally jumped out of my mind.

所以他们在那个行动里塞了太多东西。获取资源、决定玩家顺序、在进度条上前进、完成得分条件...所有这些都集中在一个行动里，但没一样是有趣的。我想要的是获得赞助人，我想要获得乐器。

But so they lump a lot of stuff there. Get resources, get to determine player order, get to do, you know, the go up on that track, get to do the the victory point conditions. Like, all of that stuff's kinda lumped into that one action, but none of that stuff's fun. Like, I wanna be, like, getting patrons. I wanna be getting instruments.

我想要的是制造资源。而不是进行建造、表演这些你在游戏里真正想做的事情。

I wanna be, like, making resources. You're not building, performing, all these things that you really wanna be doing in the game.

所以我觉得游戏中最薄弱的部分就是那个，嗯，中心阳台，他们好像是这么叫的。

So that's the one that's the weakest part of the game I felt was that whole, like, center the balcony is what it's called there.

我们已经讨论过版图上的工人放置机制。我特别喜欢的一个出色设计决策是将粗加工和精加工区域放在玩家个人版图上。这很棒，因为没人能决定你何时进行粗加工或精加工，对吧？这样你就能按需获取资源，对拥有的乐器进行粗加工或精加工。

Now we've talked about worker placement, on the board. I also love the fact the very good design decision was to put the roughing and the finishing spaces on your own individual player board. And I love this because no one else can dictate when you rough or finish Right. Something. So you know you're gonna be able to do what you need to do to get the resources that you need to rough and or finish the instruments that you have.

我太喜欢这个设计了。如果这些放在主版图上，我觉得会非常困扰我，因为那样就太游戏化了。嗯。所以把粗加工和精加工放在个人版图上是个很棒的设计决策。

I love that. If that had been on the board, I think that would really bother me a lot because it'd be almost too gamey. Mhmm. So great design decision to make the roughing and finishing on your own player board.

没错。而且这也很符合主题，因为你在自己的工坊里做这些事。所以你在家处理这些工作，而需要外出时就去城里完成那些事务，对吧？

Right. And that's thematically accurate too because you're working in your workshop to do that stuff. So you're you're at home when you're doing that stuff. You need a time when you go out on the town and do all the stuff out there. Right?

比如应酬赞助人、收集资源、安排演出等等。但在家做事就可以从容不迫。所以无论是游戏性还是主题性，我都很喜欢这个设计。

The schmooze the patrons, you know, collect the resources and and, arrange performances and things. But you can take your time to do stuff at home. So I like that gameplay wise, and I also like it, thematically.

我有个问题，当我们开始讨论某些行动格时——比如在执行演出行动格时，我想确保玩家们注意：这里涉及一些掷骰子机制。这让我有点想起我们讨论过的《淬炼》...嗯...

So I've got a question when we start talking about some of the the spaces. When you start executing on the board so for the performance space, I just wanna make sure the kabbalists are aware. There's some dice rolling that happens there. And this reminds me a little bit. We talked about the steeled Mhmm.

就是那种需要混合配料，然后从牌堆顶和底各抽一张牌的机制。是的。因为这里可能存在一些运气成分，你在德式游戏中引入了随机性。虽然只体现在一个小环节，但确实存在。嗯。

Where you're mixing up the ingredients and you're taking a card off the top and a card off the bottom. Yeah. Because there can be some luck involved in that, and you're inserting luck into a euro game. Again, it's in one small space, but it is there. Mhmm.

所以我想知道你对此有何感受。说实话，我对此挺满意的。但我想知道你的看法。

So I wonder how you felt about that. I'm quite fine with this, to be honest. But I wonder how you feel about it.

你知道，我从未被它坑到那种程度，就像你懂的，那是一个我从不依赖随机性的地方。因为嗯。即使掷得不好也能拿到钱。我几乎总是把那地方看作是我去赚点钱的地方。你懂吗？

You know, I've never been screwed by it to the point where it was like you know, it was a place that I never relied on, the randomness. Because Mhmm. Rolling bad still gets you money. I almost always look at that space as that's where I go to get some money. You know?

如果我得到的东西比钱多，那在某种意义上算是个愉快的意外。所以在这方面它并不在游戏中扮演巨大角色。你懂吗？等到你真的需要它的时候，比如游戏中期，你已经积累了足够的资源池，可以某种程度上操纵它，或者你有紫色染料，或者有些多余的黑色染料可以换进去帮你得到所需。所以游戏早期，它确实挺糟的。

And if I get more money than money if I get more stuff than money, it's a happy accident in a sense. So it doesn't play a giant role in the game in those respects. You know? By the time you need it to though, like sort of mid game, you're already building up enough of a a resource pool that you can sort of manipulate it or you have the purple dye or you have like some extra black dye you can like swap in in there to help you get what you need. So early game, it sucks.

但你不应该那样，那不应该成为游戏的关键。对吧？比如在游戏早期依赖运气。所以我一点也没觉得困扰。我只是觉得它增加了一点小波折和一个有趣的小副游戏，我挺享受的。

But you shouldn't be like like that shouldn't be a game. Right? Like, relying on luck at the early game. So I it didn't bother me one bit. I just thought it added a a little wrinkle and a fun little sort of side game that I enjoyed.

我同意。而且你可以带一个价值更高的工人去那里，你会把那价值加到你的掷骰结果上。然后如果你还有额外的缓解手段，你应该就能瞄准目标，心想，好吧，我可以缓解这个，但那里确实有个掷骰环节。对吧？

And I agree. And you can go there with a a higher valued worker, and you're gonna add that value to what's your role. And then if you have some mitigation on top of that, you should be able to target and be like, okay. I can mitigate this, but there is a die roll there. Right?

是的。只是想确保每个人都清楚这一点。

Yeah. Just wanna make sure everybody everybody knew that.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而且，你再次说过，你并不一定需要它，但在骰塔那里，我就是喜欢把骰子放进去，伙计。我想要去表演一番。它的作用是允许你在棋盘上放置表演标记，就像维修行动允许你放置维修标记一样。对吧？而这就是那个管弦乐队的游戏性发挥作用的地方。

And, again, you said it's like you didn't necessarily need it, but at dice tower, I just love putting dice in it, man. I wanna kinda go perform. Now what it does do is it does allow you to put performance tokens on the board just like the repair action allows you to put repair tokens on the board. Right? And this is where that gaminess of that orchestra comes into play.

维修行动，正如杰米在概述中提到的，基本上是花费一些资源，修理某样东西，这会让你得到一个维修标记，并且可能满足一些你的病人。我对你对管弦乐队的看法很感兴趣。我认为如果这个游戏有什么所谓的'游戏性'，那就是它存在的地方。是的，对吧？

The repair action, as Jamie covered in the outline, is basically spend some resources, repair something, and that gets you a a repair token out and also may satisfy some of your patients. I am interested in what you think about the orchestra. I think if there's anything gamey, quote, unquote, gamey about this game, that's where it lives. Yeah. Right?

那个区域控制的管弦乐队，我、我、我有点不知道是否还有另一个没有这个但同样有趣的游戏。因为在我玩过的游戏结束时，几乎每个人在那个管弦乐队中都有差不多相同数量的首席位置。而且，我不知道，分数某种程度上是平分的，所以我可能领先五分或落后五分，但考虑到做那些事情需要多少行动，那并不是一个巨大的波动。

That area control orchestra, I I I kinda don't know if if there's another game where that doesn't exist that's almost just as fun. Because at the end of the games I've played, almost everybody has just about the same number of first chairs in that orchestra. And it's like, I don't know, the the points are somewhat awash, so I might be up by five or down by five, but given how many actions it takes to do that stuff, it's like that's not a huge swing.

所以，唐，当我说这个的时候，可能是我作为新手的表现。但我同意你的观点，我不认为这是游戏中一个非常必要的方面，但我认为它是一个非常令人满意的游戏元素，因为它就像是对做好工作的奖励。你知道，我认为游戏真的希望你创造出艺术性和大师级的乐器。而那个管弦乐队部分就是奖励的地方。通过制作乐器，你获得首席位置，没人能把它从你这里夺走。

So this might be novice ness coming into play here for me, Don, when I say this. But I agree with you that I don't think that it is a hugely necessary aspect to the game, but I think that it is a very it is a it's a satisfying element to the game because it's like a reward for doing a good job. You know, I think that the game really wants you to create artfully and and masterfully created musical instruments. And that orchestra section is where that is rewarded. By making the instruments, you get first chair and no one can take it from you.

但做游戏中所有其他事情可以让你把标记放出去。所以你可能会获得首席位置，因为没有人制作另一架大键琴或者你创造的任何其他乐器。你知道？所以，所以制作出这个特定的，比如，双簧管，然后你可以把那个棋子放出去，现在我宣称那个部分是我的，这非常令人满意。从主题上讲，这很傻。

But doing all the other stuff in the game lets you put tokens out there. So you might get first chair because no one made another harpsichord or whatever the hell instrument you created. You know? So so the fact that it's so satisfying to, like, I made this particular, you know, oboe, and you get to put that piece out there, and now I claim that section. Thematically, it's silly.

它只是一个管弦乐队的代表，为了它是一个管弦乐队而存在，只是为了在上面增加一点额外的趣味。但是，你知道，从游戏性的角度，我不认为它是必要的，但从基调的角度和拥有它所带来的满足感来看，我认为把它包括在内是一个好的决定。

It's just a representation of an orchestra for the sake of it being an orchestra just to add that extra dose of spice on the top. But, you know, game wise, I don't think it's necessary, but tone wise and and the satisfaction of having it there, I think, is makes it a good decision being in there.

是的。而且它确实增加了一些你之前谈到的玩家互动。你通过工作场所获得这种互动。你也通过争夺外面的一些东西来获得它。而且，出于某种原因，当你制作出乐器时，就像你说的，你获得首席位置并且不会被夺走，这确实相当令人满意。

Yeah. And it does add some of that player interaction you talked about earlier. You get that through the workplace. You also get it through the race for some of those things out there. And and for some reason, it is quite satisfying when you make the instrument, like, as you said, you get first share and that will not be taken from you.

这也是我喜欢去乐器制作阶段的部分原因。对吧？我喜欢在这方面投入很多精力。现在赞助人总是会推动你朝这个方向努力，因为每个赞助人的主要要求都是让你制作某种特定类型的乐器。没错。

And that is part of the reason I like going for instrument crafting period. Right? I like to sort of concentrate on that a lot. Now the patrons always drive you toward that because the primary requirement for every patron is you build a certain type of instrument. Right.

所以无论如何你都得这么做才能获得一些首席位置。这就是我之前提到的意思。游戏会推动你朝这个方向发展。所以每个人都在以大致相同的速度被推动着

So you're gonna have to be doing that to get some of those first chair spaces anyway. That's kind of what I meant earlier about. The game drives you in that direction. So everybody's getting driven at approximately the same rate

嗯。

Mhmm.

我发现

I found

在最后

at the end of

游戏结束时。所以这就是为什么我说这可能不是必要的。我不知道。也许这是另一个不需要它的游戏。我认为这是个不错的补充。

the game. So that's why I said it's maybe it's not necessary. I don't know. Maybe it's another game where it's it's not necessary. I think it's a fine addition.

不过在管弦乐队里确实会变得有点游戏化，当涉及到：好吧，如果你制作了一件乐器，你就能自动获得首席位置。如果你完成了第一次修复表演，你就能获得首席位置，但要让别人从你那里夺走它，他们只需要在表演和修复方面比你拥有更多的部件，除非那里已经有乐器了。就像，有这么一整套...是的。要确定你是否能获得首席位置，需要经过17个步骤的流程。

It does get a little gamey out there in the orchestra though when it comes to, okay, if you build an instrument, you get first chair automatically. If you do the first repair performance, you get first chair in order for somebody to take it from you. They just gotta have more pieces than you there, performance and repair, unless there's a instrument there. It's like, there's all these kind of Yeah. There's a 17 step process to figure out whether or you're getting first chair there.

我就是这样，我不知道这是否有必要。

And that's what I'm like, I don't know if that's necessary.

除此之外，Don，把第一把椅子从别人那里拿走太难了，因为你必须用两个换他们一个，对吧？需要代币。这意味着你必须修复两样东西，或者去看两次表演才能得到那个特定的东西。所以这感觉几乎是在做无用功，对吧。

And on top of that, Don, the the the taking first chair away from somebody is so hard because you have to have two to their one Right. Tokens there. And that means you have to make, like or, like, repair two things or go to the the the the performance twice to get that specific thing. So it almost feels like it's a fool's errand to try. Right.

与其试图打败他们，你还不如直接制作乐器。所以在这方面确实感觉有点笨拙。

You may as well just make the instrument instead of try to beat them, in that respect. So it's it does feel a little kludgy in

在这方面确实如此。你说你还不如制作乐器。现在我想谈谈另一个需要运气的地方。我知道上一局游戏开始时，我抽到了一个赞助人。

there with that respect. And you said you might as well make the instrument. Now I do wanna talk about this is another place where there is some luck. I know last game I played, I pulled a you know, at the beginning of the game, it's like, okay. I I I get a patron.

但当时棋盘上没有弦乐器，是的，棋盘上没有可用的。我想，它们肯定很快就会出来的，对吧？所以我拿了这个。

And there were there was no string instruments on the board Yeah. You know, available on the board. And I thought, well, they gotta be coming out soon. Right? So I took this.

结果两轮过去了，一个都没出来。是的。与此同时，我的赞助人的耐心正在耗尽。所以我不得不去赞助人点重置一下，对吧，算是恢复一点耐心。

And for two rounds, none came out. Yeah. And so it's like, meanwhile, the patience of my patron is wearing out. So I had to actually go to the patron spot to kinda reset that, right, to sort of give give me that patience back.

没错。

Right.

最终结果还算可以，但有一段时间确实有点悬。所以那些翻出的牌确实带有一定的运气成分。

It ended up being okay, but it was kind of it was a little dicey there for a while. So there is some luck associated with those cards that come out.

唐，这和我们在蒸馏游戏中遇到的争论一模一样。比如，我们特别需要的特定原料就是没有出现在市场上。而且，我个人认为在这个游戏中，这种情况的影响远小于蒸馏游戏。因为我觉得在这个游戏里，你总是同时进行多项事务。而在蒸馏游戏中，很难同时运行多个项目。

Don, this is the same exact argument we had with distilled. Like, the the the particular ingredients we specifically need just aren't coming into the market. And and, you know, I think personally in this game, it's far less impactful than it is in distilled. Because I think in this game, you have multiple things always going. In distilled, it was very difficult to have multiple, you know, projects running at once.

这个游戏里，你同时进行三个项目。如果玩得好的话，你可以同时推进三个项目，尝试平衡所有事务。所以，这个游戏里这种情况对我的困扰小得多。当然，它确实可能成为问题。

This one, what you have three going. If if you're playing well, you have three going at once trying to sort of balance all of that stuff. So, you know, I it didn't bother me nearly as much in this one. Now, it could. It could be a problem.

而且我觉得最左边那个'钓鱼'行动，它要花费10个硬币，超级昂贵。深入挖掘。这些行动成本太高了，你真的需要集中精力

And I think that that sort of go fish, action, which is the far left, it costs you, like, 10 coins and Super expensive. Digging in. They're so expensive to do that, and you really need to be focusing

在淘汰一个学徒出局上。

on an apprentice out of the game.

没错。这就好像是在惩罚你试图减轻游戏随机性的行为，这很烦人。所以，是的，这确实很棘手，老兄。真是个难题。目前还没困扰到我，但我能预见到在某些情况下，我可能会觉得被坑了。

Right. So it's like punishing you for mitigating the randomness of the game that's annoying So, yeah, that's a that's tough, man. That is a real tough one. It didn't bother me yet, but I could see at some point, like, there being a situation where I'm like, I got screwed.

再次强调，我认为这些都是小批评。是人们应该注意的问题。我知道开发者在加入那个让你挖掘特定物品的动态机制之前就意识到这是个问题。我知道这超级昂贵。但如果你真的必须得到某样东西

Again, I think these are small criticisms Yeah. The things people should keep in mind. And I know they know it was an issue before they inserted that that dynamic that lets you dig for a particular thing. I know it's super expensive. But if you really gotta have something

是的。

Yep.

你确实有能力去那里做这件事。只是你得为此付出高昂的代价。

You do have the ability to go there and do it. You just gotta pay through the nose for it.

没错。

Right.

但有时候这就是你必须做的。是的。

But that's what you gotta do sometimes. Yep.

对吧？现在你谈到了赞助人，唐。我想聊聊赞助人，因为这也是我在这个游戏中最喜欢的部分之一。那种感觉太满足了。你不断地吸引赞助人进来，而且我喜欢他们会时不时地送你礼物，因为这非常贴合主题氛围。

Right? Now you talked about patrons, Don. I wanna talk about the patrons because this was one of my favorite things in this game too. That feels so satisfying. The fact that you're like getting those patrons in, patrons in, and I love that they give you gifts throughout the time because this feels so evocative of the theme.

对吧？就像你作为工匠备受尊敬，他们会来到你的工作室，表示想要投资。然后他们会给你投一些钱。下次再来时，投的钱会少一些。是的。

Right? Like you're so revered as this artisan that they'll come by your workshop and they'll be like, I want to invest. And they'll like dump some money on you. And then the next time they come around, they dump a little less. Yeah.

然后就像，好吧。他们一直在等待。已经等了一段时间了。他们只想尝一点点甜头。就只想尝一点点。

And like, okay. Like, they're they're waiting. They've been waiting a while now. They want just a little taste. They just want a little taste.

他们想要一个Kickstarter更新，对吧？你给他们更新后，他们就恢复正常了，还会再给你一点钱。从游戏玩法角度来看，这也很棒，因为你在建立一个能带来投资回报的布局。它要么给你钱，要么给你资源。

They want a Kickstarter update. Right? And you give them that, and then they're, back to normal again, and they'll give you a little bit more money. Like, I just I from a gameplay standpoint, it's also amazing because it's you're setting up a tableau that's giving you return on the investment. Like, it's giving you money or it's giving you resources.

这一点额外的机制，在一个原本没有这种设计的游戏中，加入了一点引擎构建或布局构建的概念。但又不会太多，不会因为管理起来太复杂而显得过头。

And just that little bit of extra just adds just a little bit of a like an engine building concept or a tableau building concept in there to a otherwise game where that's not a thing. But it's not too much. It's not over the top that it's overwhelming to manage.

但我确实喜欢它能带来即时收益这一点。是的，一旦你把那些赞助人放到版图上，你就能得到一些东西。比如一个学徒、资源或一些钱，仅仅因为放置了他们。然后他们会立即给你东西，所以你不需要先满足他们的需求。

But I do love the fact it gives you immediate benefits. Yeah. As soon as you put those patrons on the board, you get something Yeah. Like an apprentice or a resource or some money just for putting them on the board. And then they're going to give you things immediately so you don't have to satisfy what they want.

你会得到一些东西，帮助你逐步积累所需资源来满足那个赞助人。我真的很喜欢这一点。我同意你的看法。想到的两点，我们都讨论过了，一个是工人放置机制及其运作方式，另一个是赞助人卡。我绝对喜欢这个设计，因为它帮助你规划构建引擎的路径。

You're gonna get some stuff that's gonna help build you up toward getting the things you need to satisfy that patron. And I really like that. I'm with you. I think the the two things that come to mind, and we've talked about them both, is the worker placement aspect and how that works and also the patron cards, which yeah. I absolutely love that because it helps to formulate the path you're gonna take to get your engine built.

因为一旦你满足了他们，就可以把他们翻过来，他们会给你持续生效的效果。这可能让你的表演更好，每回合给你资源之类的。我喜欢我可以抽取赞助人并确定优先级，满足他们以获得那些持续收益。

Because once you satisfy them, you flip them over, and they give you this ongoing effect. Which can make your performances better, give you resources every round or something. And I love the fact that I can pull patrons and prioritize, get them satisfied so I can get those ongoing benefits.

所以

So

另外，我的意思是，我们还没深入讨论，还有通过走那些轨道获得的特殊工人。我也很喜欢这个。嗯，我想那是叫皇家赞助人吧。我也非常喜欢那个设计。

there's also, I mean, we haven't gone into that, there's also the special workers that you get for going to those tracks. I love that too. Mhmm. The the and I think it's got royal patrons, I think they're called. I love that too.

所以当你沿着这些轨道不断前进，在游戏中越走越远时，会有很多花哨的功能。确实有很多亮点。我们甚至还没谈到市场呢。市场系统设计得非常出色。我喜欢你可以选择时机去市场获取资源，然后用这些资源进行粗加工，最终完成你的乐器。

So a lot of bells and whistles as you move up all these tracks and get further and further in the game. So a lot of goodness. We haven't even talked about the market. The market is very well implemented. I love the fact that you can time when you go to the market to get resources and use those resources to rough and then finish your instruments.

所有这些都非常棒。我的意思是，从游戏玩法角度来看，这是对前作《钢铁》的完美延续，因为它更有深度。嗯。你能感觉到它出自同一血脉。它更深入，肯定也更复杂。

All that is great stuff. I mean, I think from a gameplay perspective, it's a great follow-up to the steel because it's deeper. Mhmm. You can sort of cut feel it coming from the same lineage. It's deeper, definitely more complex.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但如果有玩过的人来教，你很容易就能理解。我发现这个游戏的教学并不特别困难。

But if someone has played it before that's teaching it, you can grok it pretty easy. I found that it's not a particularly hard teach.

是的。这款游戏的流程在主题上做得非常好。我认为除了乐团部分外，所有元素——主题设计都帮助游戏流程顺畅进行，让你能很快理解各种概念。虽然教学时间较长，但我在桌上没发现任何人感到困惑。就像，哦，对的。

Yeah. The flow of this game is very well done thematically. Everything, I think, except the the, orchestra, it the the the thematics help the flow of the game and help you sort of grok the concepts pretty quickly. It's a long teach, but I it's one that I didn't find anybody at the table was confused by. Like, oh, right.

我忘了那个。我忘了那个。我忘了那个。你知道，这种情况不会发生，因为它的设计很出色。

I forgot that. I forgot that. I forgot that. You know, that doesn't happen because it's well designed.

没错。而且我喜欢的是，一旦你向朋友解释了如何前往沙龙，当你讲解表演、行会和维修行动时，它们的运作方式是一样的。就像，你可以获取或拿取卡片之类的，获取方式是通过免费执行这两个动作中的一个，或者支付费用执行第二个，或支付费用执行第三个。所以这个设计做得很好，我认为也容易教学。我喜欢他们至少在那四个主要的工作替代区域保持了操作的一致性。

Yep. And I love that you once you explain to friends how to go to the salon, when you talk about the perform, guild, and repair actions, they work the same way. Like, you have you have access or you take a card or something, and the way you get it is you get you do one of these two for free or you pay for the second one or you pay for the third. So that that's well done, I think, and easy to teach. I like the fact they made them uniform across at least those four main work replacement spaces that you have out there.

所以我很好奇想知道，Don，你对这款游戏的可重玩性有什么看法。不如你跟我说说？因为我们有探索性、趣味性，还有提升空间这几个方面。我知道其中有些方面对我来说评分较低，我很好奇听听你的看法。

So I'm curious to find, Don, what you think about the replayability of this game. So why don't you tell me? Like, because we got our discovery, we got our fun factor, and we got our, you know, the the improvement aspects. And I know that there are some that are lower for me than others, and I'm curious to hear what you have to say about it.

其实我觉得这三方面都相当高。真的吗？我觉得是的。确实。我认为三者中最低的可能是探索性。

I actually think they're all three pretty high. Really? I think yes. I do. I think of the lowest of the three is probably discovery.

因为一旦你玩过之后，基本上就明白游戏机制了。但游戏中有众多赞助人和乐器卡牌，每次你都会选择不同的路径。而且，你会获得一个起始赞助人和起始乐器，这就会引导你走向某条路线。所以你不可能会每次选择完全相同的路径。

Because once you've played it, you've kind of you figure how it goes. But there are so many patrons and so many instrument cards that you're taking a different path through that each time. And further, you kinda get a a starting patron and a starting instrument, and it throws you down a path. So it's not like you're just you can't choose the same exact path every time.

嗯。

Mhmm.

此外，你选择的家族还会给你一点额外奖励。我记得你只能看到其中两个选项，但实际上有八到十个可选。所以从探索性来看，我觉得它算中等，可能稍偏低，但绝对属于中等范围。而提升空间，我认为简直爆表。嗯。

And further, you get a little bonus from the family that you chose. So of which you only you get see two of, I think, there's eight or 10 to choose from. And so I think from discovery point of view, it's actually medium, maybe a little lower than that, but definitely in the medium range. Improvement, I think, is like off the charts. Mhmm.

因为这款游戏中有太多元素在同时进行，有太多推拉机制、权衡取舍，每个回合都有各种决策，我们之前讨论的工人放置顺序等机制正是这款游戏提升空间的体现。至于趣味性，我不知道是因为主题，还是机制，或者是那个超棒的骰子塔——那个管风琴，但我绝对热爱这款游戏。我觉得趣味性简直爆表。

Because there's so many things going on in this game and so many push pulls, so many trade offs and stuff on any given turn, and the order and the worker placement we talked about is like improvements where it's at for this game. And fun factor is, I don't know if it's the theme. I don't know if it's the mechanisms. I don't know if it's that great dice tower, that organ, but I absolutely love this game. I think fun factor is off the charts.

是的。在趣味性上我有同感。而且完全同意你对提升空间的看法。我认为提升空间正是这款游戏真正出彩的地方。因为要玩好这款游戏并不容易。

Yeah. I feel the same about fun factor. And absolutely, I feel the same about improvement. Improvement, I think, is where this game's really gonna shine. Because this is not an easy game to do well at.

有些简单的方法会让你自己搞砸，也会被其他玩家坑。玩家互动和时机运作的方式，你真的需要多次体验才能熟练掌握。比如，我们第一次玩的时候，我是和我们那个玩过大概五次的朋友一起玩的，他就把我们耍得团团转，懂吧？

There's some easy ways to screw yourself and get screwed by other players. The player interaction and the way that the timing works is something you really need to experience multiple times to get very good at. You know, case in point, first time we played, I was played with, you know, our buddy who had played like five times. He just us. You know?

是啊，那简直是场尴尬的惨败。对吧？这个游戏就是你会越玩越好的那种。不过我觉得它的探索性对我来说偏低。

And Yeah. It it was kind of an embarrassing beat. Right? This is a game that is going you're just gonna get better and better and better as you go. I think discovery is low for me though.

因为一旦你玩过这个游戏，游戏就被你体验过了。你已经见识过了。当然，有不同的赞助人，不同的乐器之类的东西。但说实话，它们的功能其实都差不多。

Because once you play this game, the game has been played. You've seen the game. Now, yes, there's different patrons. There's different instruments and that kind of stuff. But really, they all kinda do the same stuff, honestly.

是的。这个

Yeah. This is

没错。当然，这并不困扰我，因为我们稍后会在节目里讨论各种游戏的复杂度。我二十年前最喜欢的一些游戏，每次玩也都是完全相同的机制。我觉得，就探索性而言，这款游戏在重玩价值上其实胜过它们。

true. And that doesn't bother me, of course, because we're gonna talk later in the episode about the complexity of various games. And some of my favorite games from twenty years ago, like, they ain't different. Every time you play, you're playing the same exact set of mechanisms. And I think, you know, this one, you know, beats those in replayability as far as the the, discovery goes.

但它还达不到像沙克尔顿基地那样的水平。而沙克尔顿基地的问题在于，我不确定短期内会有什么游戏能超越它。

But it doesn't come up to something like a Shackleton base. And the problem with Shackleton Base is I'm not sure that anything's gonna come up to Shackleton Base for a

门槛很高。没错。而且马上要出新扩展了。对的。

good while. The bar is high. That's right. And there's a new expansion coming out. That's right.

没错。增加更多公司。是的。好吧，唐。那么你觉得

That's right. Adding more corporations. Yep. Alright, Don. So what do

我们在这里为Luthier游戏发表最终想法怎么样？是的。

you say we throw our final thoughts out here for Luthier? Yeah.

这款游戏对我来说是个愉快的惊喜。我拿到它时心想，天啊，这看起来好复杂。因为你打开后要给卡牌套上牌套（至少我是这样），把所有东西分装袋。感觉就是，哇，这里头内容真多。然后你看那本规则书，又会觉得，哦，规则确实很丰富。

So this game has been a pleasant surprise for me. I got it, and I'm like, man, this looks complicated. Because you take it out, you sleeve the cards, least I do, you bag everything. It's like, man, this, there's a lot going on here. And then you look at that rule book and you're like, oh, there's a lot going on here.

但当你开始阅读规则时，会发现有些机制是一脉相承的。所以我发现玩过一两轮后，游戏过程就变得非常顺畅。你之前提到游戏流程，我认为这方面做得非常出色。最近我们玩过一系列很棒的游戏，而Luthier是这个优秀游戏系列的最新成员。非常非常难得的是——我们周五晚上总是在好友Shannon家聚会，上周他妻子Claire走进来看到我们在玩这款游戏时问：这是你们上周玩的那款游戏吗？

But then when you start to read it, you realize there are things that are consistent. And so I found that once I played a round or two, like, man, it was just smooth the way it played. You talked about the flow of the gameplay earlier, and I think that is top notch. We have had a slew of really great games here lately, and Luthier is the latest in that slew of great games. Very, very infrequently, and we play at my at our buddy Shannon's house on Friday night, and his wife Claire walked in and saw us playing this last week, and she's like, is that the game you guys played last week?

Shannon说是的。她说：真奇怪，你们以前从不会连续两周玩同一款游戏——这正是因为我们太喜欢它了。我们迫切地想再开一局，因为上次体验实在太棒了。说实话，在他家这样连续玩下来，我现在已经准备好再玩一次了。

And Shannon said, yeah. She said, that's weird. You guys used to don't play the same game two weeks in a row, and that's because we loved it so much. And we wanted so desperately to get it back to table because we had such a good time. And I gotta be honest, having played it back to back like that over his house, I'm ready to play it again.

确实是啊。

Like Yeah.

你看，到现在我已经玩了四五次，但我还会继续玩。这恰恰说明了这款游戏有多优秀，有多令人惊艳。如果说有什么缺点，可能就是设置和收拾的时间稍长，需要把所有组件收回盒子里。但话说回来，对于这么一款绝妙的游戏来说，我觉得这只是个微不足道的代价。

Like, you know, I've played it four or five times at this point, but I'd go back. And that just it speaks to how good of a game it is. It speaks to how gorgeous of a game it is. If there's any negatives, there's a little bit of negative associated with setup and teardown time and all the components that you gotta get back in the box. But again, I think that's a small price to play price to pay for what is an absolutely fabulous game.

这是众多优秀游戏中的又一款。你提到了沙克尔顿基地，我们讨论过《护戒使团的命运》。制琴师绝对值得在这个话题中占有一席之地。2025年下半年确实涌现了许多非常出色的游戏。

It's another one in the long line. You talked about Shackleton base. We talked about Fate of the Fellowship. Luthier deserves a spot in that conversation. So the back 2025 has been filled with some really great games.

制琴师对我来说是个巨大的惊喜。在Patterson Games前作《蒸馏》之后，我不确定该期待什么，但我觉得这是非常合格的续作。虽然复杂得多，但这种复杂性带来了更多乐趣和欣赏价值。《蒸馏》确实很棒，而我认为《制琴师》更上一层楼。

Luthier has been a great surprise to me. I wouldn't know exactly what to expect, on the on the heels of Distilled previously for Patterson games, but I think this is a very worthy successor to that. Tons more complex, but with that added complexity comes a lot of enjoyment and appreciation. Distilled is a really good game. I think Luthier is even a step above that.

所以我强烈推荐这款游戏，特别是如果你是欧式策略玩家。如果你是这类玩家，玩这款游戏绝对会如鱼得水。不知道Chris是否玩过了，但我觉得这正

So it is a very high recommend for me, especially if you're a euro gamer. If you're a euro gamer, you're gonna be an absolute heaven playing this game. I don't know if Chris has played it yet, but it's the kind game I think he

是他会爱不释手的类型。

would absolutely love.

没错。总之，我个人非常非常推荐。

Yeah. So, anyway, very, very high recommend for me.

是的Don。我完全同意你对这款游戏的评价。确实，我认为它比《蒸馏》更出色——虽然我很喜欢《蒸馏》，那是个很棒的游戏。

Yeah, Don. I am I'm right in line with what you're saying about this one. Yes. I do think that this is a step above Distilled, which I love Distilled. It was a great game.

没错。这款游戏的设计精炼度明显超越了《蒸馏》。Patterson Games团队做得非常出色，我特别高兴他们能推出这样的作品。我们又多了一个制作精彩游戏的出版商。

Yeah. This is just man, the refinement of the design from Distilled is noticeable here. Patterson Games and the and the guys over there are just doing an absolutely fantastic job. And I'm so happy that they that they're doing stuff like this. We have another publisher that's making these amazing games.

对吧？这款游戏感觉很优雅。你知道吗？文斯·杜特拉的插画、游戏配件、主题设计，以及主题与玩法的结合方式，再加上它是一款非常紧凑的欧式游戏。整体就给人一种优雅的感觉，玩起来体验很棒。

Right? This game feels classy. You know? The artwork from Vince Dutra, the components, the the theme, and the way the theme works, and just the fact that it's a real tight euro game. It just feels like a classy game, and it feels good to play.

我超爱这款游戏，刚才也提到了它出色的配件。最让我高兴的是，零售版完全不会让你觉得因为没买Kickstarter豪华版而亏了什么。你知道吗？单买零售版就能获得非常棒的产品，我甚至觉得不需要升级。

I adore this game, and I talked about the great components. I am so happy that this is a game that fee the retail version you don't feel like you've been cheated out of something because you didn't get the the Kickstarter all in. You know? You're gonna get a really great product with just the retail version. I don't even need to upgrade.

这点让我特别满意，因为我不想额外花那么多钱，

I'm very happy about that because I don't wanna spend all that extra money,

但想要的话还是可以买的。

but it's there if you want it.

所以这太棒了。游戏性方面，玩起来非常刺激。作为一个音乐人，一辈子都和音乐家打交道的人，这款游戏给人的感觉特别对味。和《泪之悲歌》类似，但我觉得这款绝对超越了《泪之悲歌》，是比它好得多的游戏。

So that's awesome. Gameplay wise, it's just an exciting game to play. From a person who is a musician, who has been around musicians, you know, my whole life, you know, this is a game that just feels really good. Similar to Lacrimosa, and I think this one definitely exceeds Lacrimosa. I think this is a much better game than Lacrimosa.

尽管我很喜欢《泪之悲歌》，但我觉得这款更出色，更能代表音乐世界的主题。如果你是音乐人，我相信你会很欣赏它。别以为它会像模拟游戏那样，但你会欣赏其中机制与主题结合的细节深度。所以唐，等我们一月份讨论2025年最爱时，它绝对会出现在我的榜单上。轻松进入前十，可能接近榜首，因为它确实是一款不可思议的游戏。

Even though I love Lacrimosa, I think this is a better game and really represents its theme in the musical world much better. And if you're a musician, I believe you're going to appreciate it. Now don't think that it's gonna be like a simulation of these things, but you're gonna you're going to appreciate the level of detail that was put into the mechanisms and themes and making them tie together. So like Don, this is very easily going to be on my list when we talk about our favorite things from 2025 in January. Easily gonna be on that top 10, probably close to the top because it's an absolutely incredible game.

我强烈推荐。感谢帕弗森游戏公司做出了这么棒的作品。大家一定要试试《制琴师》。嘿，科布勒斯，现在这段就是我们所说的赞助环节。

Super high recommendation from me. Thank you, Paverson Games, for doing awesome stuff. You gotta check out Luthier. Hey now, Kobulus. Well, this little segment right here is what we call a sponsor segment.

嗯，现在，我们这段节目还没有赞助商。这意味着有个空缺需要填补。也许你有一家制作桌游的公司，或者生产很酷的桌面游戏配件。也许你是桌游零售商。如果这听起来像你，并且你喜欢秘密阴谋游戏播客，那么，你可以填补这里的这个空位。

Well, right now, we don't have a sponsor for this very segment. So that means there's a hole that needs to be plugged. And maybe you have a company who makes board games, who makes cool accessories for tabletop gaming. Maybe you're a retailer of tabletop games. If that sounds like you and you like the secret cabal gaming podcast, well, you could fill this slot right here.

你只需要发邮件到Jamie@thesecretcabal.com。在主题中写上“赞助”二字，我们就可以开始对话了。如果你想做的频率低一些，或者你觉得角色扮演游戏更符合你的风格，《地牢领主》也有赞助机会。所以，再次发邮件给我，Jamie@thesecretcabal.com，我们详谈。说到这里，让我们进入托尼·T带来的新闻环节。

All you gotta do is email Jamie@thesecretcabal.com. Put the word sponsorship in the subject, and we'll start a conversation. If you're looking at doing something a little less frequent or maybe you feel that role playing games are more your thing, Lords of the Dungeon also has an opportunity for a sponsorship. So, again, throw me an email, Jamie@thesecretcabal.com, and we'll talk. And with that, let us get on to the news with Tony t.

那么

And

现在是由你们的主持人兼秘密阴谋创始人托尼·托珀带来的新闻。

now the news with your host and secret cabal founder, Tony Topper.

各位阴谋主义者们，大家好。我是带来新闻的托尼·T。

Greetings, cabalists. This is Tony T with the news.

所以在你开始之前，托尼，我们得说史蒂夫在上期节目中的新闻做得非常棒。所以哦...你现在算是处于试用期。所以你今天必须表现出色，

So before you get started, Tony, we should say Steve did a great job with the news last episode. So Oh. You're kinda back on a probationary period. So you gotta knock it out of

一举成功。不，我不是，唐。不，我不是。

park today. No. I'm not, Don. No. I'm not.

我们期待会有很棒的结果。

We're expecting great things.

我拒绝你。我拒绝这个。但是我

I reject you. I reject this. But I

确实拿着剪贴板。

do have the clipboard.

哦，天哪。哦，好吧，随便吧。反正我还有更重要的事情要做。没错。好吧。

Oh, my goodness. Oh, well, whatever. I got better things to do with my time anyway. That's right. Alright.

嗯，你知道众筹时最不想要什么吗？最不想要的就是游戏设计师消失不见。

Well, you know what you don't want when you're crowdfunding? You don't want the designer of the game to to vanish.

是啊。哦我的

Yeah. Oh my

天哪。那似乎消失了。是的。

gosh. That seems vanish. Yeah.

你不会想在RPG游戏获得奖项并成功众筹后，被设计师玩消失吧。

You don't wanna get ghosted by the designer of your RPG after it has a an award winning game crowdfunding.

不过问题就在这里。你用'玩消失'这个词，但我不确定这总是带有负面含义。实际上这里似乎发生了什么事。

Well, that's the thing, though. Like, you you use the word ghosted, and I'm not sure like, that that always has a negative connotation on it. This it actually seems like something happened here.

是啊。谁

Yeah. Who

知道呢？因为那家伙就这么消失了。而且也不像是他/她

knows? Because the dude just disappeared. Right. And it's not like he She

有人组织过搜救。

had a search party.

不像是他卷款跑路了。情况是：他众筹了这款角色扮演游戏，他们完成了游戏的全部设计，完成了书籍的所有排版，把书送去了印刷厂。

It's not like he took the money and ran. It's like the the he crowdfunded this role playing game. They they did the all the design of the game. They did all the layout of the books. They sent the books to the printer.

所有这些费用都已经支付了。而现在设计师却从地球上消失了。就像被外星人绑架了一样。

They're they were all of this is paid for. And now the designer disappeared off the face of the earth. Like, was abducted by aliens.

对于听众们来说，这个项目叫做Grimwild。是的，这是那套书的名字。

And And and for the listeners, this is called Grimwild. Yeah. It's the name of the books.

对吧？有人知道他住在哪里吗？他们难道没有他的地址吗？不能派人过去看看吗？

Right? Does anybody know, like, where he lives? Don't don't they don't they have an address for him? Can't they send someone over?

他有一起合作这个众筹活动的伙伴，但他们也找不到他。他们说他不再回复短信，也不回邮件或任何消息。问题不在于他们无法交付这些书，唯一的原因是持有书籍的公司只肯交给这个人，因为公司是以他的名义注册的。

He has partners that he worked with on this campaign, and they can't find him. They they are like that he won't respond to texts. They won't respond to emails or nothing. And it's not like they can't fulfill these books. The only reason they can't is because the company who has the books won't give them to anybody but this guy because he was the guy who's the company's in his name.

太疯狂了，真是疯狂。看起来不像是他卷款跑路了，他就是消失了，大家都找不到他。这真是个离奇的故事。

It's crazy. It's crazy. Like so it's not like he took the money and ran. He just disappeared, and people can't find him. It's a crazy story.

而且他的朋友——应该是同事们发布的声明，内容令人担忧。对吧？我在这里逐字读一下：‘起初我们并不太担心，我们知道他需要休息。’

And and the statement that his friends released, I guess, his colleagues, is is concerning. Right? And I'm reading it word for word here. Initially, we weren't too worried. We knew he needed a break.

发起一个成功的众筹活动，完成这样的项目，既充满成就感又令人精疲力尽。而且马克斯当时也经历了一些现实生活的变化，我们原希望他是在花时间适应和享受。所以听起来他可能也在应对一些困扰。所以我真的...虽然这么说不好，但最好的情况反而是这家伙只是跑路了，对吧？

Launching a successful crowdfunding campaign, a project like this, is as rewarding as it is exhausting. And Max had also been going through some real life changes that we hoped he was taking time to adjust to and enjoy. So it sounds like he was potentially struggling with some things as well. So I really, really I mean, it's it's bad to say, but sort of best case scenario is this dude just ran off. Right?

是的，我希望是这样，希望他没有真的遭遇什么不好的事情。

Yeah. I I hope that's the case and that the guy hasn't actually that nothing bad's happened to him.

是啊。但是，问题是，如果他只是因为崩溃了或者类似的原因就跑掉了

Yeah. But but, like, the thing is, if he just ran off because, like, he, like, cracked or something

哇。

Wow.

他至少可以给公司打个电话说，嘿，把那些书发出去，然后再跑掉。是啊，我不确定

He could at least he could at least call the company and be like, hey. Release those books and then go run off. Yeah. I don't know that

你知道，当你经历那样的崩溃时，我不确定你还会想到，我应该给这家公司打电话。你知道，就像，我不...确实如此。理性思考在那一刻可能已经不存在了。我有点觉得，如果他是想卷款跑路，难道不应该在完成整个印刷流程之前就把钱弄到手吗？是的。等到一切都快准备好了才行动？

you have you know, when you have a break like that, I don't know that you think, I should call this company. You know, it's like, I don't It's true. Rational thought may be gone at that point. I kinda feel like he if he was sort of grabbing the money and running, wouldn't he have grabbed the money before he had done the whole process of getting things printed and Yeah. Get it to the point where it's almost ready?

这看起来...我觉得...我不知道。这似乎不太可信。

It just seems I think it's I don't know. It just doesn't seem plausible.

相当...我相当确定，至少从这个故事来看，这里没有什么恶意。他并不是想坑人。只是因为一切都已经付过款了。都完成了。游戏设计好了，也印刷好了。

It's pretty I'm pretty certain from at least the story here that there was nothing, you know, maniacal here. He was not trying to, like, screw people. He's just because it's all paid for. It's done. The game's designed and printed.

只是他们需要拿到书然后寄给人们。我不知道。这真是一个巨大的遗憾。我希望这个游戏...这家伙的名字是，是Maxwell Games。他叫JD Maxwell，他的游戏叫Grimwild，而且支持者们已经拥有了游戏的PDF副本。

It's just they need to get the books and send them to people. I don't know. It's a really it's a real big shame. And I hope this game's this guy's name's, it's Maxwell Games. His name's JD Maxwell, and his game's Grimwild, which and the the backers already have PDF copies of the game.

他们只是在等书的实体版。

They're just waiting for their physical copies of the book.

是啊。真可惜。

Yeah. It is a shame.

确实。我会找到他的。看看他有没有在Facebook上。

That is. I'll find him. See if he's on Facebook.

好吧。史蒂夫要史蒂夫要当网络侦探了。

Okay. Steve's gonna Steve's gonna be an online investigator now.

侦探已上线。

The slimm has engaged. The

游戏开始了。

game is afoot.

那是他至少

That's He's at least

六个JD·麦克斯韦。

six JD Maxwells.

嘿，史蒂夫。

Hey, Steve.

没错。让狗闻闻那位女士。

Yeah. Have the dog smell the lady.

是啊。嘿。谁知道呢。那条狗可能真发现了什么。

Yeah. Hey. You never know. That dog might be onto something.

我很确定他们可能已经查过他的领英和脸书了，史蒂夫。

I'm pretty sure they probably checked his LinkedIn and and Facebook, Steve.

是的。

Yeah.

好吧。

Alrighty.

是你吗，托尼？好吧，那是因为你是个糟糕的侦探。你从不做任何假设。

Are you, Tony? Well, that's because you're a terrible detective. You never assume anything.

他们想让我们怎么想，T。

What they want us to think, T.

没错。托尼·TPI留下了半打石头没翻。

That's right. Tony TPI leaves half a dozen stones undurned.

《 spinal Tap》里有句台词怎么说来着？警察说这起案件最好别破。

What's the line from Spinal Tap? The police said this is a crime best left unsolved.

是啊。总之，我我为这位JD·麦克斯韦感到难过。希望他们能找到他，也希望他们能处理好这件事。

Yeah. Anyhow, I I'm sorry for this this fellow, JD Maxwell. Hope they find him, and I hope the they get this taken care of.

那么，托尼，你包里有什么好消息吗？

So, Tony, you got some good news in the bag?

还没有。我

Not yet. I

知道。我正在看这个Nate的故事。

know. I'm looking at this Nate story.

我们在Cmon Games的这场闹剧中又有了些新进展。他们正在出售更多知识产权。

Got we got some, additional developments in the drama that is Cmon Games. They're selling off more IPs.

哦，拜托。

Oh, come on.

为了支付

To pay for

得了吧。

Come on.

他们的

Their

兑现他们未完成的众筹项目。他们把《地狱，阿纳斯蒂尔》卖给了Don't Panic games。

fulfilling, their unfulfilled campaigns. They sold Hell, Anastir, to Don't Panic games.

如果《地狱》和《阿纳斯特》听起来耳熟，那是因为这已经是这两个IP第二次被出售了。

And if Hell and Anastir sound familiar, that's because this is the second time these IPs have been sold.

没错。Mythic，它们原本是Mythic Games开发的，对吧？

Yep. Mythic they were mythic games, right, to begin with?

是啊。Don，你会损失所有为《地狱》众筹的钱，还是会再付一次钱才能拥有它？

Yeah. Don, are you going to lose all the money that you pledged to hell, or are you gonna pay it again so that you can have it?

因为我觉得这个问题的答案就是——没门。不，我不会再支持了。但我认为，而且我敢肯定几乎所有其他支持者都这么想：这些游戏我们永远也见不到了。

Because I I think the answer to that is hell. No. I'm not gonna pledge again. But I think it's, like and I'm sure every other backer, almost literally every other backer feels the same look cool. We're never gonna see these games.

是啊，那些微缩模型的图片看起来很酷。但你实际上从没见过任何实体模型，而且说实话，我觉得没人会见到。这项目就是处境很糟糕。

Yeah. Those pictures of the minis look cool. You haven't actually seen any minis, t, and I don't think anybody will, to be honest. It's just in a bad place.

我不知道这个‘别慌游戏’(Don't Panic Games)是什么来头。以前从没听说过他们。他们还做什么？让我看看…他们专门做… Exactly（就这个）。

I don't know who this bad, this, don't panic games is. I've never heard of them before. What what else do they do? Let's see. They make Exactly.

他们确实在‘不慌’这方面做得很好。

They do a good job of not panicking.

嗯，他们自己倒不慌，但所有支持者都慌了。我不知道。他们这里有一大堆以前制作的游戏，我都没听说过。其实我甚至不确定。也许他们只是个欧洲分销商。

Well, they don't panic, but all the backers do. I don't know. They have, like, a whole bunch of games here that they've made in the past, none of which I recognize. Actually, I don't even know. Maybe they're just a European distributor.

上面说他们提供过游戏的法语本地化版本，包括《Final Girl》、《Teens》、《Midgard》和《Fantasy Realms》。所以可能这是他们的专长。

It says they've have provided French localizations of games, including Final Girl, Teens, and Midgard, and Fantasy Realms. So maybe that's their bag.

我不知道。也许因为他们做欧洲游戏分销，手头有很多闲钱，然后就想着：嘿，也许我们可以进军出版业，然后像其他人一样倒闭。

I don't know. Maybe they have a bunch of money just lying around because they distribute games in Europe, and they're like, hey. Maybe we can get into the publishing game and then go out of business like everybody else.

Don't Panic今年还有其他产品要发布，比如《La Trac Sticks》和《Bruno Fadudi》，就是那个设计翻转的游戏，对吧

Don't Panic has other stuff releasing this year like La Trac Sticks and Bruno Fadudi, the design flipping right,

不错嘛，你就是在炫耀。

Nice. You're just showing off.

谢谢你的分享，Steve。

Thanks for that, Steve.

Oui oui（法语：是的是的）。那么围绕这个问题有几个疑问。每当Hale和Anastir——我记得应该还有第三个IP，但别让我保证，我只知道这两个——当他们被卖给Cmon时，至少对Hale来说是这样，我觉得Anastir的情况也一样。

Oui oui. So here's some of the questions that surround this. So whenever Hale and Anastir and I think there was a third IP, but I don't don't hold me to that. I know these two. When they were sold to Cmon, at least for Hale, I think it was case for Anastir as well.

Cmon公司曾表示他们会照顾那些之前在任何级别支持过这些众筹活动的人，包括核心游戏的众筹者，承诺会交付核心游戏，并且不让这些原始支持者额外付钱。他们可能需要支付运费之类的。但现在情况不明朗。一旦这个IP被卖给另一个公司，我不确定——我没看到任何关于那家公司（这个Don't Panic Games）是否会兑现这个承诺的信息，因为这不是他们做出的承诺，而是Simone做出的承诺。

Cmon said they were going to accommodate people who had previously pledged at any level to those campaigns, including like the core game, that they would deliver that core game with, you know, without making those original pledgers, have to pay any more money. They might have to pay shipping or something like that. But now it's not clear. Once that IP gets sold to yet another party, it's I don't I haven't seen anything about whether or not the that other party, this Don't Panic Games, is looking to honor that thing because that's not the commitment they made. That's the commitment that Simone made.

好吧。我不太了解这个Don't Panic Games，因为我正在浏览他们的产品目录，看到一个叫《别掉肥皂》的桌游。这是一个关于坐牢的游戏。

Alright. So I don't know about this this don't panic games because I'm kinda browsing their their catalog here, and I see a board game called don't drop the soap. And it's a and it's a game about being in jail.

别玩那个游戏。

And Don't play that one.

这里有些卡片。阿拉巴马州。有肛门搜查卡。有好几张肛门搜查卡。还有肛门强盗卡、泰隆最后一餐卡。

There's cards here. Alabama. There's a cavity search card. There's multiple cavity search cards. There's an ass bandit card, Tyrone's last meal card.

我不确定。这简直是一派胡言。你知道吗？

I'm not sure. That's some that's some bullshit right there. Like, you know what?

是啊。

Yeah.

这是那些法国人在取笑我们美国人和我们糟糕的监狱系统。

It's the it's the those French people are making fun of us Americans in our our shitty prison system.

然后他们决定通过低调地搞种族歧视和恐同来做到这一点？还有这些破事？

And they decide to do that by being low key racist and and homophobic? And shit?

就像，我

Like, I

不确定我是否认同这个。我的意思是，我知道我不

don't know if I dig that. I mean, I know I don't

认同这个。我没在看图片。所以

dig that. I'm not looking at the picture. So

别把肥皂掉了。把这个加到我的圣诞愿望清单上。

Don't drop the soap. Putting that on my Christmas list.

我

I

希望这能帮助Seamon完成他们那一堆未完成的宣传活动。对吧？这样他们就能获得一些现金流。现在有很多公司都面临现金流问题。希望这能为他们的金库注入一些资金，从而帮助他们完成

hope this helps Seamon fulfill their slew of unfulfilled campaigns. Right? Like, they're getting a little bit of cash flow. There's a lot of there's a lot of companies that are having cash flow problems. And this will hopefully inject some cash into their coffers, which will then help them finish

一些

some

这八个未交付的众筹项目中的

of these eight undelivered crowdfunding campaigns

他们有的。翻译一下，Tee想要他的莫德雷德副本。是的。是的。嗯，他那边的情况是。

that they have. Translation, Tee wants his copy of Mordred. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's with him.

我同意 那边有

I'm with There's

很多人。他们确实有一个项目状态页面。Seamon有一个，它大致显示了不同未完成项目的进展。例如，莫德雷德目前处于大规模生产阶段，正在进行中。所以他们正在，比如说，希望正在将塑料注入注塑模具中，而且

a bunch of people. There is a they do have, like, a a project status page. Seamon has one, and it sort of shows where the different unfulfilled campaigns are at. Like, for instance, Mordred is in the mass production phase currently, and it is in progress. So they are they're, like, shooting the plastic into the injection molds, hopefully, and

哦，天哪。

Oh my god.

会得到一些

Gonna get some

《冰与火之歌》正在进行中。校对文件，是的，你关闭了。

A Song of Ice and Fire is in progress. The proofing files Yeah. You closed.

那个项目，不是你负责的吗？杰米，那是你支持的那个吗？

That one, didn't you? Is that the one you backed, Jamie?

是的。我几乎把所有资源都投进去了。还有《克苏鲁：死亡可能降临》，这个项目目前处于校对文件阶段，进度还比较靠后。

Yeah. I went all I went pretty much all in on that. And Yeah. Cthulhu death may die, which is way down here in the in process phase in the proofing files.

嗯，他们正在制作模具，这个阶段刚好在——其实他们既在做模具又在校对文件。所以这有点像...至少这里有点让人安心的是，你可以查看这个页面。它五天前更新过。所以你看，他们似乎一直在保持更新。他们试图建立某种系统，让人们对这些项目的进展有一定信心，并且还提供了预计交付时间。

Well, they're making the molds, which is the is this phase right before well, they're making the molds and they're proofing the files. So it's kinda like it's not at least there's some a little bit of reassurance here is that you can go to this page. It's it was updated five days ago. So it's you know, it seems like they're keeping it up to date. They're trying to sort of create some sort of system that gives people some confidence that there's forward progress on these projects, and they're giving estimated deliveries.

比如莫德雷德这个项目，唐尼刚才提到了。他们希望能在2025年第四季度交付。

So like Mordred, for instance, Donnie brought that one up. Twenty twenty five q four is what they're hoping to hit the delivery.

但到目前为止已经延期八个月了，而且他们甚至还没开始制作游戏。所以

Well, it's eight months late so far, and they haven't even started making the games yet. So

需要明确的是，我的意思是，这种情况以前也发生过。

Which let's be clear. I mean, that has happened before.

是的。当然。不，不，这并不罕见。我是

Yeah. Sure. Not not and it's not unusual. Am I

对吧？是的。他们确实有预售。我，作为一个没有支持过莫德雷德但对此感兴趣的人，你会不会有信心去预购它？

right? Yeah. They do have preorder. I I would be sort of as somebody who had like, say, didn't back Mordred and I was interested in that. Would you have the confidence to go preorder it?

因为你有点

Because you are sort of

你有点在那里注入一点资金，让他们完成一些项目。但这也像是，风险感有多大？嗯，

you are sort of injecting a little bit of money there for them to finish up some of these projects. But it's also like, what's the level of feeling of risk? Well,

很高兴看到。《黑暗天命》正在打包过程中。《黑暗天命》，那是马丁·华莱士和特拉维斯·钱斯对《翡翠研究》的更新版，我大约两年前预购的。所以我很兴奋。看起来快完成了。

is nice to see. They have Dark Providence is in the packing process. Dark Providence, that's the, Martin Wallace and, Travis Chance update on a study in Emerald that I preordered, like, like, two years ago. So I'm excited about that. Looks like it's getting there.

总之，我们对CMON一无所知。就像，它是一团糟。这么说吧。希望那团糟能有个相对快乐的结局。

Anyway, well, we don't know anything about Cmon. Like, it's it's a giant shit show. Let's put it that way. On. Hopefully, that shit show has a relatively happy ending.

这是一个

It's a

是的，他们正试图摆脱困境。好吧，祝你好运。

quagmire Yeah. That they're trying to get out of. Well, good luck.

我有点觉得他们会成功的。真的吗？我觉得我们还没看到——我还没看到——我不觉得坏消息已经结束了，但我认为最终，他们仍然会是一家公司，并且继续制作游戏。

I kinda feel like they will. Really? I feel like we haven't seen the I I haven't seen I don't feel like we've seen the the last of the bad news, but I I think that at the end, they will still be a company and still be making games.

我希望如此。他们曾有一些不错的创意文化和创意活力，一直在制作有趣的东西。

I I hope so. They had some decent creative culture and creative sort of juice there that was making interesting stuff anyway.

是的。他们给了我们很多基石般的伟大游戏。

Yeah. They have given us a lot of Cornerstone great games.

是的。不

Yeah. No

毫无疑问。即使像是被其他人收购，比如Asmodee之类的，然后他们仍然是一家公司，只是一个子公司，这种情况也可能发生。但我仍然不认为我们已经看到了CMON的结局。我只是觉得等我80岁的时候，

question. Even if it's like somebody else buys them, like Asmodee or something, and then they're still a company, they're just a subsidiary, Like, that might might happen too. But I I still I don't think we've seen the end of Cmon with this. I just feel like I'm I'll be 80 when I

才能拿到那个哥斯拉雕像。刚好在他用助行器的时候？

get that Godzilla statue. Just in time he uses a walker?

目标。我要在拿到我的抵押贷款副本前退休。退休目标。我退休后得找点事情做。好吧。

Goals. I'm gonna retire before I get my mortgard copy. Retire goal. I'm gonna have something to do when I retire. Alright.

嗯，如果你有孩子的话，这里有些事可做。如果你有孩子，你可以买些Asmodee儿童产品。他们正在这里推出一个新品牌。

Well, here's something to do if you've got kids. If you've got kids, you can buy some Asmodee kids. They've they're launching a new brand here.

我们得小心点。那听起来有点怪，托尼。

Let's be careful. That sounded weird, Tony.

确实。唐，是不是只是因为你的

It did. Don, is that just is that just because you're

脑子里的Asmodee儿童还是什么的，真的吗？

brain Asmodee kids or something like really?

我觉得你们俩都对。我觉得听起来确实怪怪的，而且我觉得唐的脑子有点混乱。

Think you're both right. I think I think it sounded weird, and I think Don's brain is screwed up.

这是Asthma Day即将推出的一个儿童游戏品牌。是的。他们的首批产品会有《我的第一次解锁》，然后还会有《璀璨宝石儿童版》、《达芬奇密码儿童版》。这里有些不错的标题他们要改编。我好奇这些产品会卖得怎么样。

This is a brand of kids games that Asthma Day is launching. Yeah. They got some My First Unlock is gonna be one of the first products they released, and then they're gonna have Splendor Kids, Dixit Kids. There's some good titles here that they're gonna adapt. I wonder how well these will sell.

我打赌它们会卖得相当不错，真的。

I bet they'll sell pretty good, actually.

我我认为这真的会取决于哮喘日游戏的销售渠道分布。如果它们能进入沃尔玛、塔吉特、巴诺书店以及类似的地方，那就会卖得很好。因为你知道，巴诺书店就在我家旁边新开了一家。而且你知道，从那以后我已经去过好多次了。他们现在的桌游选择真是令人难以置信。

I I think that it really is going to depend on the distribution of of Asthma Day games. If they get into Walmart and Target and Barnes and Nobles and places like that, they're gonna sell great. Because I you know, Barnes and Nobles just opened up, like, right next to my house. And, you know, I've been in there a bunch since. And their selection of board games is incredible at this point.

那里有各种各样的游戏，从《改造火星》、《潜意识》一直到《卡坦岛》，还有你知道的，很多儿童游戏、卡牌游戏之类的。太棒了。如果它们能进入那个行列，那是个相当不错的位置。而且我认为它们会做得很好，因为你知道，其中一些游戏作为成人版本很棒。把它们转换成适合儿童的版本，我认为对于有孩子并希望孩子成为游戏玩家的桌游爱好者来说会非常成功。

It's like all kinds of games ranging from, like, terraforming Mars and unconscious mind all the way to Catan and, you know, like, lots of kids games, card games, stuff like that. It's great. And if they're in that mix, that that's pretty good place to be. And I think it could do very well as, you know, some of these games are great as the adult versions. Transitioning them into, like, kid friendly versions, I think, will do really well for for hobby gamers who have kids and want those kids to be gamers.

我想我好奇的是它在桌游爱好者圈子之外的表现会如何。是的，是的。这是不是一种试图吸引更广泛受众的尝试？因为你在沃尔玛和塔吉特看到的很多儿童游戏都很糟糕。

I guess I'm curious how well it'll do outside of sort of the hobby gamer. Yeah. Yeah. Is this sort of an attempt to get to a broader audience? Because a lot of the kids games you see at Walmart and Target suck.

是的，比如《大富翁 junior》。

Yeah. Like Monopoly Junior.

是的。嗯，这种情况正在发生很大变化，因为当你去那里的时候，比如，是的，以我的例子巴诺书店为例，还有塔吉特，当你去那里看到他们有的儿童游戏，它们还挺酷的。他们开始关注什么能让一个游戏变得好玩。当然他们仍然有所有那些垃圾，比如糖果乐园、大富翁，你知道，那些 junk。

Yeah. Well, that's changing a lot because when you go in there, like Yeah. Barnes my example, Barnes and Noble when and and Target, when you go in there and you see the kids games they have, they're kinda cool. Like, they're starting to pay attention to what makes a game good. Now they still have all the crap, like the Candy Lands and the monopolies and the, you know, that junk.

但那些东西几乎被放在不同的区域了。它们就像在另一个架子上。我们需要做一个

But that's sort of they're off to in a different section almost. They're like one shelf over. We need to do a

更好的工作，尤其是在美国，我认为，因为我们不希望我们的孩子变笨。嗯。世界其他地方的孩子们可能玩的游戏比我们更好。我们或许可以怪沃尔玛和塔吉特。

better job, especially in America, I think, because we don't want our kids to be dumb. Mhmm. The rest of the world's kids are probably playing better games than than we are. I we can blame Walmart and Target maybe.

是的。而且Hobba是一家非常棒的公司，制作很棒的儿童游戏。你知道，他们有点像连接爱好游戏世界和大众市场世界的桥梁。他们制作的游戏适合所有年龄段，一直到像《犀牛英雄》这样的游戏，我们在每个展会上都能看到成年人在玩。《疯狂布谷鸟》是我那次和Bender一起玩的游戏，我看到他的手抖得那么厉害。

Yeah. And Hobba is a is a really great company that makes awesome kids games. You know, they're they're sort of like a a bridge between the, the hobby game world and the the mass market world. And they make, like, you know, kids for all, games for all ages all the way up to things like rhino hero, which, like, we see adults playing at every convention. Go Cuckoo is the one that I played with Bender that time where I saw his hands shaking so much.

几乎整个游戏都像要塌了。

It almost like the whole game, like, collapsed.

承受不住。

Couldn't handle it.

我们在Asthma Days的新闻稿中看到，他们说新研究发现棋盘游戏对儿童和青少年有认知和社交方面的益处。我们需要让更多的儿童和青少年玩这些游戏，因为他们需要一些认知上的好处，我觉得。

We hear the in the Asthma Days press release, they say new research finds cognitive and social board game benefits for children and teenagers. That we need to get more children and teenagers playing these games because they need some cognitive benefits, I feel.

我正想说，市场上有一群爸爸们 desperately 想和他们的孩子一起玩游戏。我这么说是因为我曾经是那个群体的一员。

I was gonna say there is a market out there of dads who desperately want to play games with their kids. I say that having been a member of that demographic.

没错。

That's right.

好的。我们这里有好消息。还有更多好消息即将到来。

Alright. We got good news going here. We got more good news coming.

好的。所以我们从Asmodee（注：原文Asthma Day应为Asmodee的误读）获得了一个新品牌。是的。这还不错。希望能让孩子们更聪明。

Alright. So we have we got a new brand from Asthma Day. Yeah. That's kind of good. Hopefully, making the kids smarter.

我们有了Gamegenic，这是Asmodee旗下的品牌，他们生产游戏套牌和其他游戏配件。他们获得了万智牌的授权。所以他们将要制作...哦，万智牌配件。这对他们来说是件大事。

We got Gamegenic, which is Asmo Day's sort of they make their sleeves and some other accessories for games. They're they got a a license for Magic Gathering. So they're gonna be doing Oh. Magic the Gathering accessories. That's a big deal for them.

不是Do

Wasn't Do

之前不是和Ultra Pro有合作吗？嗯，我不认为Ultra Pro的合作已经结束，或者至少还没有结束。所以我不知道这是否...有一段时间，我认为Ultra Pro是配件的独家供应商，但也许现在有很多万智牌产品要推出。对吧？是的。

you the previous partnership with Ultra Pro? Well, I don't think that the Ultra Pro one has ended or at least it hasn't ended yet. So I don't know if it's And for a while, I think Ultra Pro was the exclusive provider of accessories, but maybe there's a lot of Magic the Gathering stuff coming out. Right? Yeah.

他们推出了宇宙超越系列。这其实是一些人抱怨的一点，就是说他们跟不上所有万智牌产品的节奏。他们需要一些帮手。是的。也许Ultra Pro也跟不上节奏了。是的。

They had the Universes Beyond. That was sort of one of the complaints that some people were making anyway was that they can't keep up with all the Magic the Gathering stuff that's They needed to bring in some help. Yeah. Well, maybe Ultra Pro couldn't keep up with it either. Yeah.

这样也好，消费者能有更多选择，这其实挺不错的。对吧？就像有些人喜欢不同品牌的产品，现在他们可以用其他可能更喜欢的品牌来买万智牌产品了。嗯。Ultra Pro这些年的口碑其实好坏参半。

And it's like, well, it's also like you get variety this way and that can be kinda nice for the consumer. Right? It's like they like different brands' products and now they can get Magic the Gathering stuff Mhmm. In some other brand that maybe they like better. Ultra Pro has been a mixed bag over the years.

有时候人们原本很喜欢他们的产品，然后他们试图降低成本，你就能明显感觉到差别。就好像，Ultra Pro的某个领导说，

Sometimes people have loved their stuff and then it's like they try to do it cheaper and you can sort of tell. It's like, oh, someone some leader at Ultra Pro is like,

我们怎么削减成本？让我们把

how do we cut costs? Let's make

这个牌套做薄千分之一英寸。然后突然之间，人们就开始抱怨，

this sleeve like one one thousandth of an inch thinner. And then it was like and all of sudden, people are like,

我讨厌这些牌套。这确实是

I hate these sleeves. It's the

事实，老兄。牌套这方面我懂，因为我不是个热衷套牌的人。我不给很多游戏套牌，但确实为特定游戏备有牌套。所以我存了一批牌套。而Gamegenics是我一直使用的牌套。

truth, man. Like, the sleeves are I understand because I'm not a sleeving fan. Like, I don't sleeve a lot of games, but I do have sleeves for particular games. So I have like a stash of sleeves. And and Gamegenics are the sleeves that I always use.

在那之前我一直用Fantasy Flight的牌套，后来Fantasy Flight的牌套转型成了Gamegenics。所以它们的质量几乎完全一样。就像你说的，Tony，哪怕是千分之一厘米或者一毫米的细微变化都是大事。我记得当Fantasy Flight变成Gamegenics时，他们就做了这样一个改动。标准欧版或标准美版牌套就比其他的稍微小了一点。

I always used Fantasy Flight sleeves before that, and then Fantasy Flight sleeves transitioned to be Gamegenics. So they're pretty much exactly the same quality. Like you said, Tony, that one thousandth of a of a of a centimeter or one like, a millimeter change in any of them is a big deal. Because I remember when Fantasy Flight changed to Gamegenics, they did one of those changes. So, like, the standard euro or the standard American card sleeve was just ever so slightly smaller than the other ones.

是啊。

Yeah.

我试着把它们混在一起，结果，天哪，这让我很恼火。我就想，这就像是你你根本没法把它们

And I tried to mix them, and, man, it pissed me off. I was like, it's like you you can you can't even put

并排放置。

them next to each other.

你分辨不出来。但如果你把它们混洗在一起，就会发现，天哪，有几张牌不对劲。这简直让我的大脑崩溃了。

You can't tell. But if you shuffle them together, it's like, man, there's a couple of these are off. And it, like, freaked my brain out.

哦，是啊。不过人们很喜欢这样，因为他们可以把地牌放进魔法套牌里，用其中一种牌套。哦。而且它们非常接近，只有他们自己能分辨出来。然后他们就可以说，我需要一些地牌在顶部。

Oh, yeah. People people love that, though, because then they can put their lands in their magic deck in one of the sleeves. Oh. And it's so close that only they can tell. And then they can be like, I need some lands at the top.

哦，作弊的混蛋。

Oh, cheating bastards.

是啊。各种各样的各种各样的把戏都藏在这些牌套里。而且

Yeah. All sorts of all sorts of shenanigans go into those sleeves. And

而且这真的是一门学问。制作一个好的牌套就像一门科学。因为我记得以前Mayday games做的牌套，简直是垃圾。你把牌放进Mayday的牌套里，然后把牌组放下，它们就会全部滑落，就像散开一样。对吧？

And there's a it really is. Like, it's a science to make a good sleeve. Because I remember that Mayday games made sleeves back in the day, they were absolute garbage. You'd you'd put them you your cards into the Mayday sleeves, and then you'd put the the deck down, and they'd all, like, slide off and, like, just slide away. Right?

它们会塌下来。但就像Gangenic牌套一样，你做同样的事情它们却能保持不动。好像有一种难以察觉的纹理让它们能紧密贴合在一起。

They would collapse. But then like the Gangenic sleeves, you do the same thing and they stay still. Like there's there's like a texture that is imperceivable that somehow makes them stuff together.

对吧？它们有多平整？

Right? How flat they are?

是啊，是啊。

Yeah. Yeah.

就是那种纹理和平整度，这这这需要精确的工艺对吧。这些产品正需要这个。希望我们能看看这些很酷的Gamenic产品。

It's like the texture and the flatness and that's that's a a business of precision Right. That is needed for these. Yeah, hopefully we can check out some of these cool gamegenic products.

我喜欢的另一点，我刚想到的，觉得很棒的是这对桌游社区其实有好处。对吧？因为万智牌是史上最火的产品。这就像给Asthma Day（注：可能指某个活动或项目）带来的资金，能让他们资金充裕。对吧？

What I like, the other half of this that I just thought of that I think is great is this actually is good for the board gaming community. Right? Because Magic Gathering's biggest thing ever. This is like money coming in for asthma day that will keep them flush. Right?

因为他们确实是。他们承担了那笔债务的大部分，嗯，是的。

Because they were the Yeah. They were taking on the brunt of that debt for Well, yeah.

他们会让他们偿还一部分的。

They're they're gonna let them pay some of that all.

没错。所以这对桌游界来说是个好消息。

That's right. So this is this is good news for the board game world.

我想我们需要一个健康的哮喘日。

We want a healthy asthma day, I think.

是的。没错。这样他们就能接手CMON，把我的游戏带给我了。好吧，

Yep. Yeah. So we they can take over Cmon and get me my games. Well,

这里有些不太好的消息。

here's some unhealthy news.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

是的。回到海湾，回到坏消息上。

Yeah. Back to the bay back to the bad news.

哦，不。这个。下面写着。

Oh, no. This one. It's below said.

Wallace Designs的石头。他们为Bloodstones做了门和杜松子酒扩展。这里提到他们有一些现金流问题。他们还谈到一位帮助运营活动的员工账户被黑了。他们的Discord被入侵，有黑客发送消息让大家下载这个游戏，而游戏实际上是个病毒，天哪。

Stones from Wallace Designs. They had their doors and and gin expansion for Bloodstones. There's a little bit of, cash flow issues they're talking about here. And they're also talking about how one of the employees that was was helping run the campaign got their account hacked. Their Discord was hacked, and that was there was some hacker sending out messages about downloading this game with and the game was actually like a virus and, oh my goodness.

是的。这不只是Bloodstones的问题。这是Wallace Designs所有项目的问题。你有Bloodstones，还有Cassius Belly和Steam Power。同样的更新发给了他们所有的游戏，你知道不。

Yeah. This is not just a a Bloodstones issue. This is a everything about Wallace Designs issue. You got Bloodstones, you got, Cassius Belly, and, Steam Power. The same update went out to all the games that they are, you know No.

不。众筹。而且

No. Pledging. And it's

他们有现金流问题。我记得我读过。问题之一是他们有——我相信是——在其他国家的分销。合作的公司在完成工作和产品后没有付款，这导致他们出现现金流问题。Cassius Belly游戏没有达到他们预期的成功水平。

they have cash flow issues. I remember I read the I read them. It's, one of the problems is is they have I I believe it is distribution in other countries. The companies that were they were working with are not have not paid them, for all of the work they did and all the product, and that is causing them to have cash flow issues. That Cassius Belly game did not succeed to the level that they wanted it to.

所以那给他们带来了一些现金流问题。当然，现在所有与财务相关的事情都一团糟。真可惜，因为，老兄，我也是Cassius Belly、血石矮人和杜松子酒项目的支持者。所以，是啊，太糟糕了。

So that gave them some cash flow issues. And then, of course, everything else having to do with finances is in the shitter right now. It's a shame because, man, I'm a I'm also a backer of Cassius Belly and the door the bloodstone dwarves and gin. So, yeah, that stinks.

希望他们能找到解决办法。也许他们得卖掉一些IP。我不确定他们是否在讨论，我不

Hopefully, they find them. Maybe they're gonna have to sell some IPs. I don't know if they're talking of I don't

不知道是否

know if

有很多。

have many.

他们在说马丁·华莱士实际上是在用他从其他游戏获得的版税，你知道，那些已经发行的游戏。对吧？所以他拥有整个《Brass》系列。那是通过另一个发行商发行的。

They're talking about Martin Wallace is actually using his royalties from other you know, his other games that are already out there. Right? So he's got he's got the whole brass series. That's via a different Yeah. Publisher.

他正在用从那里获得的版税来填补这里的资金缺口。

He's taking his royalties that he gets from that to basically try to fill in the gap here.

是的。

And Yeah.

听起来他们好像挺挣扎的。

It sounds like they're they're struggling.

不过我还是希望他们能挺过去，因为我觉得，你知道，见过他之后——我们见过他，他看起来是个很不错的人。虽然古怪得要命，但是人很好。

I hope they make it through it though because I think, you know, having met him, we met him and he he seems to be a not really nice guy, man. Quirky as all hell, but nice.

嗯，有没有像是

Well, is there is like

在桌游社区里存在这样一种现象，我觉得他们缺乏那种财务敏锐度，比如筹集资金、吸引投资者之类的。嗯。

a thing the thing within the gaming community where I don't think there's not that financial acumen of, like, raising capital and getting investors and Mhmm.

你说得对。

You're right.

对很多这些地方来说，这仍然是一个非常家庭作坊式的世界。就连CMON，对吧，他们曾经是香港的上市公司。他们有股票代码，现在没了。但他们试图通过投资者筹集资金，结果也搞砸了。所以我觉得桌游界更需要培养这种能力。

It's it's very sort of mom and pop sort of world still for a lot of these these places. And even with Cmon, right, like they were a publicly listed company in Hong Kong. They had a stock ticker, which is gone now. But they were trying to raise money via investors, and they kind of flubbed that up too. So it's there's that sort of muscle needs to develop, I think, more in the board gaming world.

是啊。感觉马丁·华莱士只想做个创作者。然后

Yeah. Feel like Martin Wallace just wants to be a creative. And then

没错。他希望人们给他

Yeah. He wants people to give

为他的创作工作提供资金。他觉得这很简单。直接给我钱就行。你知道吗？然后就是

him money for his creative work. And he's that's easy. Just give me the money. You know? And then it's

这并不...你需要有人来打理你的生意。是啊。这很难做到。很难同时成为

It's not You need, like, someone running your business. Yeah. It's hard to do. It's hard to be like a

是的。嗯，我觉得他能挺过去的。这只是些艰难的时刻。

Right. Well, I feel like that he's gonna pull through that. It's it's just some hard times.

乐观主义。这很好。让我们保持乐观。让我们去Kickstarter上看看，保持乐观心态。

Optimism. That's good. Let's have some optimism. Let's go over to Kickstarter and be optimistic.

是啊。是啊。

Yeah. Yeah.

我们有

We got

这里。我们有四款游戏是首次登陆Kickstarter。这是一家位于德克萨斯州糖城的桌游公司。他们正在制作一款合作地牢探索游戏，玩家扮演一个棉花糖，试图从棉花糖邪教手中拯救你的家人。

here. We got four y games with their first Kickstarter. This is a board game company based in Sugar Land, Texas. They're making a cooperative dungeon crawler flipping right where you play a marshmallow trying to save your family from a marshmallow cult.

是的。说实话我有点喜欢这个主题，因为你有这些棉花糖邪教徒在追着其他的棉花糖跑，我猜是着火的。他们的想法是想把这些其他棉花糖点着。所以你实际上是拿着水枪四处跑。所以肯定没有类似这样的游戏。

Yeah. I kinda dig this this theme, to be honest, because you got these marshmallow cultists that are running at the other ones, I guess, on fire. And their idea is they wanna set these other marshmallows on fire. And so you actually run around with squirt guns. So there's definitely nothing like this.

就好像，我要采用一个自杀邪教的主题，然后把它做成一个温馨的游戏。

If you were like, I'm gonna take I'm gonna take the theme of a suicide cult and make it like making it into a cozy game.

是的。没错。

Yeah. Right.

还有一只巨大的鹿角兔？

And there's a giant jackalope?

我想是的。没错。那是一只鹿角兔。

I guess so. Yeah. That is a jackalope.

哦，是的。就在那儿。

Oh, yeah. There it is.

它长着角。是一只带角的兔子。

It's got horns. It's a wabbit with horns.

是的。我跟你说。这是我很久以来见过的最奇怪的游戏之一。没错。主题上，它太疯狂了。

Yeah. I'll tell you. This is one of the strangest games I've seen in a quite a long time. Yeah. Thematically, it's crazy.

吃了些药，我只是不记得自己吃过药了。

Took some drugs, and I just didn't remember taking the drugs.

艺术作品，太疯狂了。你知道，托尼抛给我们的那一整套机制听起来，就像疯狂拼凑起来的。也许这个竞选活动里的疯狂恰到好处，会变得与众不同。

Artwork, it's crazy. You know, the the the the set of mechanisms that Tony threw at us all sound, like, crazy put together. So maybe there's just enough crazy in this campaign that it'll be something special.

这看起来就像你发烧时做的梦。没错。

It just looks like something you dream about when you have a fever. That's right.

确实。确实。你在骑鹿角兔，因为上面有个人。还有一只拿枪的猫头鹰。还有一只拿枪的飞鼠。

It does. It does. You're riding the jackalope because they got a guy on there. You got a owl with a gun. You got a flying squirrel with a gun.

蜥蜴是什么？

What's a lizard?

在做什么？还是说那是只蟾蜍？不。这看起来更像……不。我觉得是只青蛙。

Doing? Or is it a toad? No. This looks more like a no. It's a frog, I think.

松鼠看起来很生气。

Squirrel looks angry.

嗯，它们就是那样的。他正在教训那只青蛙呢。

Well, that's how they are. He's teaching that frog a lesson.

哦，天哪。那些和尚...我真是受够松鼠了。

Oh, man. The monks are I'm getting sick of squirrels.

它们把啃过的橡果弄得我车道上到处都是。

They leave their acorns, like, all chewed up over my driveway.

混蛋。愚蠢的大自然非要挡在托尼的车道上。

Assholes. Stupid nature getting in Tony's driveway.

嗯，人类与自然一直在进行一场持续的斗争。

Well, man is in a constant battle with nature.

确实如此。

It is.

是啊。我觉得我们正在赢得这场斗争，托尼。我觉得地球随时都可能陷入火海。没错。

Yeah. I think we're winning the battle, Tony. I think that the Earth is gonna be in flames any year now. Yeah.

好吧

Well

我在说什么？它着火了。托尼，现在离你二十分钟路程内可能就有一场火灾。

What am I talking about? It is in flames. There's probably a fire within twenty minutes of you right now, Tony.

看看

Look at

这灰白的

this gray

在我胡子里。我快要输了。是啊，多条战线都在战斗。我们这儿有什么？

in my beard. I'm losing the battle. Yeah. There's a battle on many fronts. What do we got here?

我们，我们要为这玩意儿付多少钱？马什霍洛？马什霍洛。有所有这些认捐等级，就像，你看看。就像是，你什么也得不到，但给我10美元。

What do we how much are we gonna pay for this sucker? Marsh Hollow? Marsh Hollow. There's all these pledge levels that, like, you look at. It's like, you don't get anything, but give me $10.

管那些叫C斯潘特别款。嘿。

Call those the C Spang Specials. Hey.

没错。

That's right.

给我一美元，我就不打扰你了。

Give me a dollar and I'll leave you alone.

你得到一本PDF漫画书。天哪，我只想要游戏。

You get a PDF comic book. Oh my goodness. I just want the game.

所以看起来是35美元，Tee。

So it looks like that's $35, Tee.

35美元。是的。

$35. Yeah.

我得说，你得往下滚动好长一段才能看到游戏部分的关卡。

I will say you gotta scroll down quite a ways to get to the game portion of the levels.

嗯，这是他们的首次尝试。

Well, it's their first outing.

那还不错。35美元。

That's not too bad. $35.

托尼，你知道你想成为这个福音传道者级别的。

Tony, you know you wanna be in this for evangelist tier.

那是什么？750美元？我能得到什么？被取笑吗？只有三个限量名额，现在还剩下三个。

What's that? At $750? What do I get? Made fun of? There's three there's a limited quantity of three, and there's three left.

你可以进行协作工作

You get to work collaborative

看看那个。

look at that.

你将能与插画师协作，提供三个你想尝试的电影片名。我不知道那是什么意思。我们继续吧。

You'll get to work collaboratively with the illustrator by providing three movie titles you would like to try. I don't know what that means. Let's move on.

我以为

I thought

会说到我能理解的东西，然后我就…我听腻了

it was gonna get to something I understood, and then I I wore out

正在处理。

on it.

我要

I'm gonna

付钱，我要付钱给他们，让他们提供好点子。他们应该付钱给我才对。这听起来像是他们想免费获取劳动成果。

pay I'm gonna pay them to give them good ideas. They should be paying me. This sounds like they're trying to get work for free.

我就是这个意思。

That's what I'm talking about.

他们，他们是想让付费方参与进来。

They're they're trying to get paid involved.

这，这听起来像是史蒂夫·斯潘的水平。没错。

That's that's This sounds like a Steve Spang level. Yeah.

我要拿

I'm gonna take

说个事儿。这是美国版的Corian烧烤。前几天我和家人去了Corian烧烤，我当时就想，天哪。自己动手做饭还得付更多钱。这完全没道理

a note. It's the American version of the Corian barbecue. My my family and I went to Corian barbecue a few days ago, and I was like, damn. You gotta pay more when you gotta cook your own food. This doesn't make any sense

一点都没有。

at all.

去K pot吧。

Go to a K pot.

我就是在那儿的。

That's where I was.

哦，那些地方超棒的。

Oh, those places are awesome.

但是，没错，你在自己烹饪

But, yeah, you're cooking your

自己的美食。我得说实话。

own awesome. I gotta be honest.

这可能很有趣。但是，是的，其中有一种成分是，我不想工作。我只想让你工作。

It can be fun. But, yeah, there's there's a certain element of, I don't wanna work. I just want you to work.

这就像是

It is like

自助餐。所以你就像，我要通过做这份工作赚取我的额外收入。

all you can eat. So you just like, I'm gonna get my extra money for doing the work.

没错。我要吃所有我想吃的食物。然后我之后会感到难受。那会让你见识到的。

That's right. I'm gonna all the food I want. Then I'm gonna feel bad afterwards. That'll show you.

你在烹饪食物时会消耗卡路里。

You'll burn calories cooking the food.

通常，当你去那些地方时，你得到的肉是其他餐馆会扔掉的那种。这是真的。是的。是的。

Generally, when you go to those places, the meat you get is the meat other restaurants would have thrown away. That's true. Yeah. Yeah.

但他们把它切得非常薄，以至于你意识不到。

But they slice it so thin that you don't realize.

是啊。对吧？

Yeah. Right?

哦，你不想要肛门肉？

Oh, you don't want the butthole meat?

我们刚刚来了个急转弯。

We just took a huge left turn.

它就像个甜甜圈。

It's like a donut.

我们怎么

How do we

从棉花糖邪教聊到肛门肉，只用了18步？太棒了。

get from a marshmallow cult to butthole meat in 18 steps? That's great.

这真是

That's

有意思。我敢肯定Marsh Hollow非常高兴我们在他们演讲时做了那个转折

funny. I'm I'm sure that Marsh Hollow is so very happy that we took that turn during their talk

没错。完全同意。

up. Absolutely.

天啊。这是一个小型创作者，他们需要一些额外的支持者，还需要更多支持者。他们还没完全筹到资金。所以来看看吧。这是一个来自新创意团队的有趣小项目。

Oh my. Which this is this is a small creator here and they're they need some extra they need some more backers here. They haven't quite funded yet. So check it out. It's like a little like, an interesting project from a new creative team.

Tony，下一个项目也是个小型项目。

This next one's kind of a small one too, Tony.

是的。算是个小项目，而且我得说，有一样东西是我需要的吗？就是《银河巡航》需要更多复杂度。所以我们来做吧。没错。

Yeah. It's kind of a small one, and and I have to say that what is there one thing that I needed? More complexity in Galactic Cruise. So let's do it. Yeah.

那么，你现在能买到重印版了。这可能让很多人感到兴奋。如果你之前因为错过而有过FOMO（害怕错过），因为它确实引起了一些轰动。我觉得大家对此很兴奋。Kickstarter上有《银河巡航》的重印版和新扩展，让那些一开始就对此狂热的人可以支持。

Well, so that you're getting your reprint. That might be what a lot of people might be excited about. If you had the FOMO for missing out on this, because it it did make a little bit of a splash. I think people are excited about it. There's a reprint of Galactic Cruise up on Kickstarter and the new expansion to get to get the people that are that frothed about this to begin with and pledge.

现在他们有了更多内容。如果我没记错的话，这是第三个扩展包。这是一个

Now they got more content. This is the third expansion, I believe, if I remember correctly. It's a

但最初的两个是随原版战役一起来的。是的。

lot of But the first the first two came with the original campaign. Yeah.

嗯，如果你是铁杆玩家并永久订阅的话，它们是随原版战役一起来的。

Well, the came with the original campaign if you were junkie Don and pledge forever.

这倒是真的。而且我会汇报的。我还没玩过那两个扩展包。

This true. And I I will report. I haven't played those two expansions yet.

这就是

That's what

这就是让我对这次犹豫不决的原因。

that's what puts me on the line about this one.

它不需要。游戏本身已经很棒了，内容也很丰富。

It doesn't need it. Like, the game's great the way it is, and there's plenty in there.

不过南郡的约翰说他两个都玩过了。他认为它们提升了游戏体验。所以现在我得去玩这些该死的东西，在一个已经是顶级游戏的体验上再提升，我觉得。

Although John at at South County said that he's played both of them. He thinks it improves the game. So now I gotta go play the damn things and improve on what's already a top tier game, I feel.

如果你只想要重印版，109美元算什么？你只需再付50美元就能获得一堆新扩展内容。但如果你想要所有东西，就得支付239美元。

What's a $109 if you just wanna get the reprint? It and you you're only paying another $50 to get a bunch to get the new expansion. If you want everything, though, you're gonna pay $239.

通常来说，109美元确实显得很高。但是，《银河巡航》的制作水准和游戏体验都非常出色。对于你从《银河巡航》中获得的体验来说，这个价格似乎很合理。

So normally, would say that 109 is, like, really high. But, man, Galactic Cruise just has such a good production value and great gameplay to match. That seems like a a fair price for what you get for Galactic Cruise.

是的。这绝对像是一款豪华级别的游戏。

Yeah. It is definitely like a like a luxury sort of game.

没错。我也很难搞清楚这个扩展包到底是什么，因为活动页面上的内容太多了。嗯，那个

Yeah. I'm also having a lot of trouble figuring out what the expansion actually is here because there's a lot on this campaign page. Well, that

左边那个导航列表。对吧？Kickstarter上有那些左侧导航快捷方式。他们的页面大纲大概有30个不同的部分。

that list on that that left hand navigation. Right? They have those left hand navigation shortcuts on Kickstarter. Their outline of their page has, like, 30 different sections.

所以基本上，你要完成基本成就。你打开对应成就的盒子，然后你

So essentially, you're going to accomplish basic achievements. You open the corresponding box with the achievement, then you

同时也会获得里面的组件。

accomplish components in it as well.

是的。所以当你完成高级成就时，会解锁一个证书盒，里面包含更多组件。这就像是，我不知道，就像最近游戏中常见的那些神秘小盒子？

Yeah. So then when you accomplish advanced achievements, you open a certificate box, which has more components in it. So it's like, I don't know, like, what? Like, one of those little mystery boxes you've been finding in games lately?

有点像战役模式的感觉，尽管我不认为它完全是战役模式。对吧？我的意思是，它确实满足了传承类游戏的这种需求——你做某件事，改变游戏状态，增加更多选项和机制。给我的感觉就是这样。

A little bit of a campaigning kind of thing, even though it's not campaigning is the way I think about it. Right? I mean, it does scratch that itch of legacy games where you do something, it changes the state and adds more options into the game and a few more mechanisms. That's what it seems like to me.

没错。斯通迈尔之前做过一些

Yeah. Stonemire was doing some

这类设计。其中一个，我不确定是基础版还是某个扩展包带来的，就是这种成就系统

of this. One of the, like I don't know if it was the original side or one of the expansions came with, like, this achievements

对。差不多

Yeah. Sort of

你知道，就是那种可以开始记录的小册子，比如谁是第一个在这个玩家数量下获胜的人？

you know, just this little page that you could start writing down, like, who was the first person to win this player count?

而且《镰刀战争》确实出过传承扩展。我记得是芬里斯扩展。对的。

And Scyther did have a legacy expansion. I think it was Fenris. Yeah.

对，对。那一定就是我想的那个。而且他们有，那个，不只是那个，虽然。是分开的。

Yeah. Yeah. That must be what I'm thinking of. And they had, like, that Not just the that that though. It's separately.

有个成就系统，小小的成就记录本。

There was this achievements, little achievements book.

嗯，我有个关于《银河巡航》的糟糕故事。大家都知道《银河巡航》——如果你不知道的话，它装在一个非常大的盒子里，而且超级重。我当时正拿着它和另一个游戏，所以两个都抱在怀里。然后我分心了，盒子从顶上滑落，砸到了地上。

Well, I have a a terrible story about Galactic Cruise. So everybody knows Galactic Cruise is if you if you don't know, Galactic Cruise comes in this very large box, and it's incredibly heavy. So I was carrying it with another game. So I had them both in my arms. And I got distracted, and the box slipped off the top, hit the floor.

整个盒子都摔成了碎片，因为它太重了，一落地就炸开了。哇。盒子的侧面，像是被炸飞了，底部也被压得皱巴巴的。所以我不得不用，那种修旧书的装订胶带，把它重新粘起来。然后用透明胶带在外面再缠一圈，才把盒子重新组装好。

The entire box busted into pieces because it's so heavy, it hit the floor. Wow. And, like, the sides of the box, like, blew off, and the bottom, like, got all crunched and munched. So I had to, like, put it back together with, like, I have this, bookbinding tape, you know, to fix, old books. And I put it back together with bookbinding tape and then had to put, like, clear plastic tape on the outside just to reassemble the box.

里面的所有组件都还好。就像是，但盒子实在太重了，一摔到地上就直接炸成了碎片。这纸板盒子太疯狂了。

Now all the components were fine inside. It was like but it was so heavy that the box literally exploded into pieces when it hit the floor. This cardboard box was crazy.

这些桌游公司真该对你们的

These these board game companies need to do crash tests on your

盒子做碰撞测试。是的，就是

boxes. Yeah. That's

我不

I don't

认为他

think he's

应该和他们

supposed to play

踢足球。是的。没错。

football with them. Yeah. Exactly.

愚蠢的肯的游戏。你

Stupid Ken's game. You

得把这个借给克里斯。等他归还时，你就说，该死的，你对这个盒子做了什么？

need to loan that to Chris. And when he gives it back, be like, damn it. What'd you do to this box?

他甚至都不会注意到。

He wouldn't even notice.

是的。完全正确。

Yeah. Exactly.

不用说，那个盒子现在放在架子最底下，没人能看见。

Needless to say, that box is at the bottom of the shelf now where no one can see it.

所以说到这个扩展的成本，你知道，翻找的时候有点难确定应该支持哪个级别，因为我一开始没意识到另外两个扩展其实是第一个的一部分。我得做些调查才发现。但他们有监督者级别，这个扩展是49美元，看起来还算合理。我的意思是，虽然偏高，但这是一款更豪华的游戏。

So so when it comes to the this the cost of this expansion, you know, digging through, it's a little hard to find what what level you should back because I didn't realize initially that the other two expansions came in were were part of the first one. I had to dig do some digging and find out. But they have achieving supervisor, which is $49 for this expansion, which seems reasonable. I mean, it's on the higher end, but this is a more deluxe kind of game.

是啊。我觉得现在这些产品里的内容太多了。就像你说的，很难，我经常很难把扩展带到桌面上玩。

Yeah. I don't there's just so much on the in some of these productions now. And like you said, it's hard like, I struggle to get the expansions to the table a lot.

是的。我是说，

Yeah. I mean,

我得真的、真的非常喜欢一个游戏才会想要它的扩展。

I to really, really be into a game to to want expansions.

说到扩展和那些会被玩的带扩展的游戏。我刚刚看到他们发布了沙克尔顿基地扩展的信息。据说明，里面有三个模块。沙克尔顿基地很棒的一点是它本来就是由模块构成的。对吧？

Speaking of expansions and games with expansions that will get played. I just saw that they released information on the Shackleton base expansion. And there's, from what it said, three modules in it. And what's great about Shackleton base is it's already built of modules. Right?

是的。所以，就像在扩展包中添加新模块，基本上就是增加更多类似的内容。当你设置游戏时，你会想，好吧，我要用这个新模块替换原来的一个。明白吗？

Yeah. So, like, adding new modules in an expansion, it'll just be more of that stuff. So when you set up the game, you're like, okay. I'm gonna use that one instead of one of the original ones. You know?

而且这很棒。据我了解，沙库宁基地扩展包有点像“地上与地下”的主题——其中一个模块让你在地表下挖掘隧道，在地下建造设施；另一个模块则是在月球轨道上建设。所以是“天上与地下”的概念。然后还有第三个模块。

And it's terrific. Like, from what I understand, the the Shakunin base is it's like an above and below, like, theme where one of the modules is you're now digging tunnels under the the surface and building shit underground. And the other one is, like, stuff in orbit over the moon. So it's, like, above and below. Then there's a third one.

我不记得第三个是什么了。但你当时玩沙克尔顿基地的时候，我还有点羡慕

I don't remember what that one was. But I was kinda jealous when you

你们在那家啤酒馆玩沙克尔顿基地。这个沙克尔顿基地看起来挺酷的，但这不是那种我会想在自己舒适圈外玩的游戏类型。

were playing Shackleton Base at that brewery that we played at. This shackle and base looks cool, but that's not the type of game that I would wanna play outside of my own sort of layer.

哦，你想要...仔细想想。

Oh, you wanna A lot look. Think about it.

你只想放松一下，待在家里或朋友家，慢慢来。是的，总觉得有点匆忙。我猜《银河巡航》这款游戏从制作角度看应该有类似的感觉吧？

You just wanna, like, chill and just sort of be at home or be at, like, a friend's house and just take your time. Yeah. There's always, a rush. Feel like it. I bet you Galactic Cruise, this game does this have a similar feel from production, like, standpoint when you're looking at it?

比如，桌面的视觉效果。

Like, the table presence.

银河游轮？

Galactic Cruise?

是银河游轮。没错。

It's Galactic Cruise. Yeah.

我们说的是哪一个？

Which one are we talking about?

是啊。而且他说话好像也不是完整的句子。

Yeah. Don't think he's talking in complete sentences either.

银河游轮和沙克尔顿基地。

Galactic Cruise and Shackleton base.

哦，银河游轮的制作水平比沙克尔顿好太多了。沙克尔顿基地的制作并不差，它就是个普通的桌游。但这个银河游轮实在太过奢华了，可能有点过头。

Oh, Galactic Cruise is is a way better production than Shackleton. Shackleton base is not a bad production. It's just a normal board game. This, Galactic Cruise is way over the top, probably too much.

好吧，有意思。因为乍看之下，这两者在某些方面有些相似之处。

Okay. Interesting. Because from just from glancing and looks, there is some sort of similarity in the field.

是的。如果你有一台3D打印机，就能获得接近那种水平的Shakland Base

Yeah. Now if you have a three d printer, can get Shakland Base approaching that level of

没错。

That's right.

Galactic Cruise。网上有些STL文件可以帮你搞定。嗯，我支持这个项目。我绝对赞成，因为Galactic Cruise真是款超棒的游戏。而且，我不能不为它准备点什么。

The Galactic Cruise. There's some some STL files out there that'll hook you up. Well, I'm backing it. I'm I'm definitely for it because, like, Galactic Cruise is such a great game, man. And, yeah, I can't not have something for it.

Kickstarter上还有什么其他项目，Tee？有什么好推荐给我们吗？

What else is going on over there on Kickstarter, Tee? You got something good for us?

艺术协会豪华版及扩展包。

Art Society Deluxe Edition and Expansion.

哦，这个还附带一个木槌。

Oh, this comes with a wooden gavel.

是的。这个现在正在Kickstarter上众筹。来自Mighty Boards，他们做过很多项目。Mighty Boards确实。他们最近做了《重生》、《哈姆雷特》。

Yeah. This is up on Kickstarter now. From Mighty Boards, they've had a lot of projects. Mighty Boards has. They did rebirth recently, Hamlet.

我喜欢这些组件的设计。这种金箔材质

I like the look of these components here. This gold foil stuff

看起来太棒了。

looks awesome.

我从来没玩过《艺术社会》，但我非常喜欢它的概念。你扮演艺术收藏家。我超爱这个游戏的美术风格，因为它戏仿了著名艺术作品。你知道，就像那些非常真实的艺术品，但被他们弄得有点滑稽，因为画中人物要么抱着奇怪的怪物，要么戴着太阳镜之类的。

So I never, I never played art society, but I very much like the concept of it. You're an art collector. I love the artwork of the game because it is parodies of famous artwork. So, you know, like, there's very like, real artwork, but, like, then they kinda make it look a little silly because, like, they're, you know, either holding a a a strange monster. They got sunglasses on or something like that.

我觉得这还挺有趣的。

I kinda I I think that's kinda fun.

里面还有金色抽奖券呢。说不定能赢些游戏。

There's a golden ticket in it too. You might win some games.

是啊。这是现有游戏的再版吗？我好像从没听说过这个。

Yeah. This is a reprint of an existing game? I I don't think I've ever heard of this.

是的。《艺术社会》是现有游戏，但这是包含扩展的豪华版。这是个获奖的艺术收藏游戏，规则简单易学。支持2-5或2-4名玩家。你扮演艺术鉴赏家，通过组建最时尚的艺术收藏来打动同行。

It is a yeah. Art society is an existing game, but this is the deluxe edition of it with an expansion. It's an art it's a it's an award winning art collection game, easy to learn rules. It's for two to five or two to four players. You're an art connoisseur trying to impress your peers by putting together most fashionable art collection.

收到了来自很多不同人和地方的大量赞誉。艺术协会豪华版。看起来相当不错。

Got a lot of accolades here from a lot of different people and places. Art society deluxe edition. It looks pretty good.

他们确实有一些有趣的豪华组件，有点像很多豪华游戏都变得千篇一律。对吧？就像它们都有同样的豪华配置。如果所有厂商的豪华配置都一样，就会开始让人觉得这不算豪华。这只是我预期的标准配置。

They do have some interesting deluxe components that are a little bit like a lot of the deluxe games tend to get samey. Right? It's like they have all the same deluxe things. And if it's if it's all the same deluxe things from all of the people, it starts to feel like this is not deluxe. This is what I expect.