地下城领主89：保持势头

从马拉伦群岛的瑞克能源研发设施到博尔德城达特先进研究部门，五位王国勇士正在讲述他们的高冒险故事。请欢迎地下城的主人们登场好吗？

From the Rick's Energy Research and Development Facility on Malaren Islands to the Dart Department of Advanced Research in Boulder City, five daring heroes of the realm recount tales of high adventure. Would you please welcome the lords of the dungeon?

前往地下城。我是杰米。

To the dungeon. This is Jamie.

我是杰斯。

It's Jess.

我是本德。

This is Bender.

我是亚伦。

And this is Aaron.

卡巴鲁斯，我得告诉你，我非常高兴地宣布我又重新开始玩我最喜欢的角色扮演游戏之一了。这款游戏我玩得远远不够，但它在我心中占有特殊地位。现在它可能已成为我最爱的角色扮演游戏之一，那就是《克苏鲁的呼唤》。没错。

Well, I gotta tell you, Cabalus. I am very happy to report that I am back into playing one of my very favorite role playing games. One that I do not play nearly enough that is is near and dear to my heart. And I think it might be one of my favorite role playing games at this point, and that is Call of Cthulhu. Yes.

是的。我发起这个游戏是因为我们有些朋友——马特和珍妮，本德和杰斯经常和他们一起玩。嗯哼。而我从未和他们玩过任何类型的角色扮演游戏，我真的很想尝试。所以我联系了他们，决定说，嘿。

Yes. Now I started this game up because, we have some friends, Matt and Jenny, who Bender and Jess play with quite often. Mhmm. And I have never played any kind of role playing game with them, and I really wanted to. So I got together with them, decided, hey.

我们来玩《克苏鲁的呼唤》吧，拉上了AC参与，还有罗德尼加入，我觉得第一回合进行得非常顺利。

Let's play a Call of Cthulhu game, got AC involved, got Rodney involved, and I think session one went great.

简直太棒了。我记得上次我们聊天时，你说想要提升游戏体验，而你确实做到了。开局就精彩绝伦。天啊，真的超乎想象。

It went amazing. Like, I remember the last time we were talking, you were saying you wanted to step up your game a little bit and you did. The game started out fantastic. Oh, man. It really did.

这个开场白设计得太完美了。更重要的是，第一次和马特、珍妮以及罗德尼玩得超级开心。真的玩得非常愉快。

It was such a it was such a good intro. And on top of that, it was a blast playing with Matt, Jenny, and Rodney for the first time. Like, had such a good time.

我得告诉你，在角色扮演游戏中发生了一件前所未有、最有趣的事。这是个在线游戏对吧？我们通过Discord视频连线玩。

I gotta tell you, the the the the most interesting thing happened that has never happened to me before in a role playing game. This was an online game. Right? So we're playing over Discord over video. Right?

结果我登录Discord时心想，既然是我主持这个游戏，我要穿西装打领带亮相。就像那种...

Well, I I show up in Discord, and I'm like, these guys, I'm running this game, so I'm gonna show up in a suit and tie. Like, you mean

盛装出席啊老兄。

Drove to the nines, man.

我穿戴整齐打开摄像头，刚加入频道就发现Rodney穿着西装，Aaron也穿着西装。我们居然都不约而同这么做了。最好笑的是当Matt和Jenny加入时，Matt穿着T恤进来。

I I showed up. I was like, I'm gonna wear a suit and tie. I turn on my Discord camera, booped to join the channel, and here's Rodney wearing a suit, and here's Aaron wearing a suit. Like, we all decided independently of one another to do this. And I thought it was funny because then when Matt and Jenny joined, Matt joins the channel, and he's got, like, a T shirt on.

结果他直接起身跑开，两分钟后穿着西装回来了。

And he just gets up and runs away and comes back two minutes later wearing a suit.

但Jenny没换装，我挺失望的。她没参与这个趣味活动。

Jenny did not change, though. I was disappointed. Like, she she didn't get in on the fun.

我们本来也没指望她

We we did not expect her

会为了线上

to go put on an

角色扮演换上晚礼服。

evening gown for for online role playing.

这就是为什么我希望你们打扮得像老太太。我的意思是，即便只穿戴一件服饰配件，这种仪式感也很重要。

This is why I wanted you to dress up like the little old ladies. I mean, there's something to be said about putting on God. Even if it's just one costume piece,

像条围巾一样，真不敢相信我们

like a scarf I can't believe we

每集都绕不开这个话题。

can't make it through a single episode without talking about this.

听着，总有一天。

Listen, one day.

听着，那次真的很有趣。它完全让我们沉浸到角色的心境中。这确实是场冒险。实际上，杰斯、本德和杰斯科，我为你们在《克苏鲁的呼唤》里跑过一个类似场景的模组。

Well, listen. It was very fun. It definitely put us in in the, the the headspace of the characters. This was an adventure. Actually, Jess and Bender and Jesco, I ran an adventure for you guys at Call of Cthulhu, a scenario that was very similar to this one.

你们那个发生在小岛灯塔里，还涉及深潜者。这次我采用了非常相似的概念，改动了很多内容，把场景设在了太平洋西北部的防火瞭望塔。他们就像与世隔绝般待在这座巨型荒野中的防火塔里，效果非常非常好。我特别钟爱《克苏鲁的呼唤》的一点——这个话题我提过很多次了——我是个平面设计师。

Yours took place in a in an, in a lighthouse, on a small island and had some deep ones in it. This one, I actually took a very similar concept, changed a bunch of stuff, and set it in a fire watch tower in the Pacific Northwest. So they were sort of secluded in the middle of of an old, a gigantic wilderness in this, like, fire watch tower, and it went very, very well. One of the things that I love about Call of Cthulhu specifically, you know, I've talked about this many times. I'm a graphic designer.

当然，作为播客主，我也懂音频工程。所以我特别注重道具制作，比如制作逼真的新闻剪报、文件、人物往来信件，甚至还录制了些音频——那位我们要去拜访的老教授用留声机录制的自述，他们得以坐下来聆听。最让我有成就感的，就是大家对我制作的音频给出的反应。

And, of course, I'm a podcaster, so I know audio engineering. So I I really lean into the props, making news articles and documents and, you know, letters from the the correspondence back and forth with different people and making them look authentic. And I even did some audio recordings that the the the the old professor that we were going there to meet had recorded himself with a phonograph recorder, and they got to sit down and listen to them. And Oh, nice. Gotta say the most rewarding thing reaction I got from the audio recordings that I made.

我会把这些音频放在节目末尾。如果有听众好奇我制作了什么录音，我会在结尾附上，因为我真的很自豪

You know, I'll even put them in at the end of the episode. If anybody out there is curious about what audio recordings I made, I'll throw them in at the end of the episode because I'm very proud

这些成果，而且我希望更多人能

of them, and I want more people to

听到它们。但最棒的是团队成员的超热烈反应，这让我觉得一切都很值得。

hear them. But, no, the reaction I got from the crew was over the top, and it just made it so rewarding.

确定没在马特身上浪费？上期我们讨论口音时，马特可是行家，他有几套拿手的口音。绝对没错。

Sure you didn't waste it on Matt. We were talking about accents last episode, and Matt is the master. He has a couple that he's he's really good at. Oh, absolutely.

是啊。他当时怎么说的来着...对。他用了波兰口音。

Yeah. What did he he yeah. He broke out his it was a Polish accent.

波兰口音。

Polish accent.

没错。这次是。

Yes. This time.

对。AC是个苏格兰人，所以他也秀了把苏格兰口音。

Yeah. And AC is is a is a Scotsman, so he pulled out his Scottish accent as well.

我...那个...我在努力...我...我其实不太擅长，经常说着说着就变成爱尔兰腔，有时候又变成伦敦腔。我控制不好

I I well, I was tying I I was I was trying. I'm not too good at it, and a lot of times, it just kinda slips into Irish and sometimes Cockney. I can't

现在还不太能驾驭自如，

really control it that well yet,

但我正在练习。

but I'm working on it.

已经够好了。

It's good enough.

太棒了。我喜欢这样。

That's fantastic. I love it.

所以就是这种

So that's the kind

这类内容。而且，我特别喜欢听这类东西，你知道，这会让游戏更有代入感，感觉就像真实的角色在互动，明白吗？

of stuff. And, like, I love hearing that kind of stuff, and, you know, it just ups the ante in the game when you have, like it feels like real characters, like playing, you know?

没错。太棒了。说到角色，游戏最棒的一点就是——作为开场，我们有多少次是自发地互动，不需要提示。小小的角色发展。我爱死这个了。

Yeah. Fantastic. Speaking of the characters, one of the great things about the game was how many like, for an intro, how often we, like, on our own, interacted with each other without prompting. Little character development. I love it.

这很美。这正是我喜欢《克苏鲁的呼唤》的原因，因为你看，《龙与地下城》包含很多元素。它既是战术战斗游戏，也有角色扮演。

It's beautiful. And that's the thing that I love about Call of Cthulhu because, you know, with Dungeons and Dragons, Dungeons and Dragons is a lot of things. You know? It's a tactical combat game. It's got role playing.

它有故事叙述，有角色成长和构建。所有这些都混在一起。《克苏鲁的呼唤》则是非常以角色为导向的游戏，你不该成为强大的人物，而应该是个调查员，去探究那些本不该触碰的事物。

It's got storytelling. It's got, like, character progression and building. All this stuff's kind of jammed together. Call of Cthulhu is a very character oriented game, and you're not supposed to be a powerful person. You're just supposed to be an investigator that's looking into things they shouldn't be looking into.

如果你带着这种心态进入游戏，真的有助于角色绽放光彩。对吧？如果你真的深入挖掘背景故事，深入你想扮演的角色类型，并将其带入游戏，那全是关于角色扮演和调查的，太美妙了。真的非常美妙，虽然在线上很难实现。在...

And if you kind of go in with that mindset, it it really helps the character blossom. Right? And if you really, you know, dig into your background and dig into the type of character you wanna play and bring that to the table, it's all about the role play and all about the investigation, and it was beautiful. It really was beautiful, and it's difficult online. It's difficult on

确实。

It is.

在Discord上很难做到。面对面玩更容易。即使对我这个GM来说，戴着耳机对着麦克风塑造角色也更困难。

On Discord to do it. It's easier at the table. Even for me as a GM, it's it's harder to do characters with a microphone in your face and headphones on and all that stuff.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但你们在角色扮演上做得太棒了。Rodney也是。他扮演的是普林斯顿大学的老教授，演出了那个爱抱怨的老头形象。Aaron还扶他上山。他得爬一座山。

But you guys were killing it with, the characters. Rodney was too. The he was playing the old professor, from Princeton University, and, he was playing his grumbly old character. Aaron was helping him up the hill. He had to climb a hill.

那可是个挑战。他得爬一座山。

That was a that was challenge. He had to climb a hill.

这让我想起天啊。我们当时玩的不是帕尔波卡苏鲁。我们玩的是另一个系统——命运系统。记得本德的角色吗？他在战争中伤了腿之类的。

It reminds me of oh my gosh. We weren't playing Palpocasulu. We were playing a different system. This was the fate system. But remember, Bender's character, he had injured his leg in the war or something like that.

我记得他拄着拐杖走路的样子。在游戏中看到残疾状态被演绎出来确实很有意思。

And I think he was, like, watching walking with a a cane and everything. I remember that was definitely that disability was definitely interesting seeing it role played out in the game.

要是在克苏鲁可乐设定里不能跑，那可糟透了兄弟。那可是个重大缺陷。

If you're in the Cola Cthulhu setting and you can't run, that's bad, man. That's that's like a major, major hitter.

就像，我

Like, I

有罗德尼的角色在场我真松了口气，总算有人跑得比我慢了。

I am I am really relieved to have Rodney's character there because there's someone that I can run faster than.

没错没错。这就像选了个角色特权——你的特权就是有个比你慢的队友，对吧？

Exactly. Exactly. It's like it's like taking a character perk. Your perk is you have a a party member that's slower than you. Right?

正是如此，这就是你的特殊能力。说实话，就像我之前说的，这次我准备了大批道具：新闻剪报、照片什么的，因为马特的角色是战地摄影师。我把摄影元素大量融入游戏，好让他能研究照片这类东西。

Exactly. That's your that's your special power. Well, I'll tell you. Like I said before, I did lots and lots and lots of props for this one, you know, news articles and pictures, photographs, because, Matt's character is a war photographer. So I'm integrating photography into the game quite a bit so that he can sort of study the photography and that type of stuff.

玩家们过去认识的角色，我都准备了讲述他们生平的报纸文章，通过这些道具让他们了解近况。这正是我爱《克苏鲁的呼唤》的地方——能用这么多道具。今天听众的问题恰好与此相关，让我们听听卡巴拉主义者埃里克怎么说。他的问题是：有件事我从没听各位领主讨论过...

And, you know, the characters that the players knew in the past, I gave them newspaper articles that sort of talked about their lives a little bit, you know, and kind of got them up to speed via the, some props that were being used. And that's what I love about Call of Cthulhu is having all of these props. And I thought this was a really interesting transition into the listener question today because the listener question deals with this very thing. So let's see what cabalist Eric has to say. So his question is, there's something I don't think I've ever heard the Lords talk about in the past, and I'd love to hear their opinion on it.

你们对角色扮演游戏中的实体道具有何看法？我指的是那些辅助或必备的实物配件。2009年Fantasy Flight Games推出的《战锤幻想角色扮演》第三版，大盒里装着四本规则书、300多张卡牌标记和特殊骰子，堪称最接近桌游的RPG。D&D多年来为多个版本推出过法术卡牌...

How do you feel about tangibles in role playing games? What I mean by tangibles are physical items that either aid or are outright necessary for gameplay. Warhammer fantasy role play third edition came out in 2009 from Fantasy Flight Games, and it was a huge box with four rule books, 300 plus cards and tokens, and a bunch of other custom dice. It was as close to a board game as a role playing game can get. D and D sold spell cards for a bunch of different additions over the years.

Free League的《异形RPG》包含NPC肖像卡和物品卡。你们觉得这些实体配件如何影响体验？更喜欢仅用规则书、角色表和骰子，还是享受用各种玩具增强沉浸感？

Free League's alien RPG includes cards with pictures of the NPCs and also item cards. How do you feel these tangibles affect the experience? Do you prefer a book, a character sheet, and dice only, or do you enjoy having a bunch of toys to enhance the experience?

我们或许可以专门为这个问题做一整期节目。没错，这里头可挖掘的内容太多了，信不信由你。双关语非故意。真的不是故意双关。

We could probably do a whole episode on this question. That's right. Like, there's so much to unpack here, believe it or not. No pun intended. No pun intended.

我们过去断断续续讨论过这个。还记得我们用过的那些嗅觉道具吗？当时我们在玩D&D，就像你打开了酒馆的气味之类的东西。对吧？记得吗？

We've talked about in the past on and off we hit. Remember we had those, the sense that we were using, we were playing D and D was like, like you opened up the, like the scent of the tavern or whatever. That's right. Remember?

是啊，当时在测试那些蜡烛。

Yeah. Were testing out the candles.

这些年来我们尝试在游戏里融入各种元素来增强体验。有次Stacy和我们玩时，她为'异形入侵'任务做了贴纸——那是我们飞船的名字。我同意，这类东西能让我更投入游戏，让我惊叹不已。

We had a, we we over the years, like we've we've kinda, like, try to integrate all kinds of different, like, things into the game that, like, have enhanced it. The one time Stacy played with us, she made these stickers for our mission into alien that was, like, the name of our ship. That was I agree. That kind of stuff, it brings me into the game. It makes me like, wow.

这太棒了。就像是游戏留给我的纪念品，这类东西非常神奇。就像Jamie你墙上挂的《鼠辈守卫》画作，现在都能在你身后看到，它永远定格了那段回忆。

This is awesome. It's like a souvenir I'll always have from this game, and that that kind of stuff is amazing. It's like, Jamie, after the fact, you have this nice artwork that you have from mouse guard up on your wall. Like, could see it behind you right now. It's like forever memorialized.

没错，它让角色扮演的瞬间永垂不朽。这太美妙了，太棒了，我超爱这样。

Yeah. It's immortalized that that moment in the role play. And that's that's amazing. It's fantastic. I love it.

不过我觉得道具可能过犹不及。当它变成桌游，当道具多到某种程度时，反而会削弱角色扮演游戏的核心体验。

I think like props can get too much though. Like, when it is a board game and when there's just so much props, like, you start to lose something from, like, what you're there to do at the table as a role playing game.

是啊，容易分心。

Yeah. You get distracted.

对，确实可能分散注意力。就连我们播放背景音乐，或者在恐怖场景调暗灯光时也要注意分寸。

Yeah. It it can it can be a distraction. Even we had music playing. We've we've, like, you know, dim the lights when when it's a spooky scene.

我认为角色扮演游戏中实体道具的使用存在一个最佳平衡点。而且这其实取决于道具类型——就在刚才的对话里，你们已经提到了至少五六种不同类型。比如《克苏鲁的召唤》里那些我设计的道具，它们本身就是游戏中可触摸可阅读的真实物品。

I think there's there is a definitely a sweet spot for the tangibles in a role playing game. And I I think it really depends on what types because right there in that little talk, you, like, threw out probably, like, half a dozen different types. You know? I mean, we're talking about Call of Cthulhu. Those are props that I created for the game that are sort of, you know, they're actual things that you find in the game that you can hold and and read.

现在在我们的游戏中，显然它们是数字化的，你也是以数字方式查看它们。但如果我要打印出来，假设我们围坐在桌边，你就能在桌上拿到它们，可以传递着看。说到这个，我很高兴埃里克提到了自由联盟的外星角色扮演游戏冒险，因为我已经两次遇到这种情况——我运行的那些官方冒险模组。是的，那些盒装套装附带一大堆东西，包括巨型星舰地图。

Now in our game, obviously, they're digital and you're looking at them digitally. But if I would print them out, if it were us at the table, and you would have them at the table to, like, care to to, to pass around and look at. When it comes to things like, the I'm glad that Eric brought up the free leagues alien RPG adventures because I have dealt with that twice now with adventures that I've run the the they're sort of official adventures. And, yes, those box sets come with a whole bunch of stuff. They come with giant maps of the starship.

它们还包含你们将要登陆的星球地图，各式各样的卡片——上面印有NPC角色、物品卡之类的东西。不过那些都是些小玩意儿。

They come with maps of the the the planet that you're gonna be on. They have all kinds of card. They have the NPCs on them. They have the item cards on them and stuff like that. And those are trifles.

对，对，那些确实很酷。但我总觉得它们会限制你的发挥，尤其是那些NPC卡我很不喜欢。因为如果我想修改这些NPC，理论上可以...

Yeah. Yeah. Those are cool. But I always find that they they they pigeonhole you, specifically with the NPC ones I dislike. Because if I wanted to change those NPCs at all, I could.

实际上我根本改不了——毕竟卡片已经印好了。所以我干脆把卡片扔到一边不用。不过我用了物品卡，但后来需要脉冲步枪的角色比我的脉冲步枪卡还多。

I I well, I literally couldn't because I had the cards. So I just threw the cards out. I just put them to the side, and I didn't use those. But I did use the item cards. But then there were more characters that wanted pulse rifles than I had pulse rifle cards.

结果这些卡片反而成了游戏里的累赘。D&D的法术卡也一样——这些年我买过一大堆法术卡，它们确实很酷，直到你需要的新扩展书里的法术没有对应卡片，或者3.5版规则修改导致法术卡失效。懂我意思吗？

So it became kind of a nuisance to have them in the game. And I find the same thing with with spell cards from D and D. I bought lots and lots of spell cards over the years, and they're really cool until you don't have the spell that you need from this newer expansion book or the spell gets erratic and changed in a 3.5, and now I have spell cards that are useless. You know? So it's like

这正是我想说的。比如外星游戏里那些卡片，我们对照规则书发现根本对不上号。书上说的那种智能机枪——就是迈克·贾罗用的那种——

That's what I was gonna say. Like them. Also, the alien game, the cards that you had, we looked in the book, and they didn't even match up. Like, it said about the one machine gun in the book, the smart gun. Like, the smart gun that Mike Jarow is using.

如果你对比书里的数据和卡片上的数值，完全是两个不同的版本...所以到底该信哪个？

If you looked at the stats in the book and you looked at the car that it presented, they had two differing you know, so which one do

你们讨论的这两样东西，虽然都是实体物件，但本质不同——一个是参考资料，一个是道具。

you even go by? The two different things that we're talking about, I mean, we're talking about tangibles, but the two different things you guys are talking about are references versus props.

没错，对吧？

Yeah. Right?

杰米做的是道具，而那些卡片属于参考资料。我觉得参考资料很多时候反而碍事——它们某种程度上会稀释游戏体验。当然某些情况下很有用，比如你们玩的赛博朋克这类高科技游戏，参考资料确实不可或缺。

And what Jamie was building is props and the the cards and things like that are references. References, I think, are just kind of in the way. Like, they they, in my opinion, they water down a game in a lot of ways. Sometimes they can be really handy. I imagine in, like, you know, cyberpunk and and the other, you know, high-tech ones that you play, like, having a reference is invaluable.

但说实话，通常我们唯一的参考就是玩家手册这类东西。不过道具嘛，我简直爱死道具了。它们能让游戏活起来。当然也有风险，你知道，可能会分散注意力，因为大家会突然都盯着蜡烛看，反而忘了正在玩游戏这回事。就觉得‘哇，这做法真酷’之类的。

But really, usually the only reference we have is like the, you know, player's handbook, that kind of thing. But props, like, I I absolutely love props. Like, it it brings the game to life. There's a danger of it, you know, distracting you, you know, because everybody's like, oh, we're focusing on the candles now, and they forget that they're in a game kind of thing. Like, oh, what a, you know, neat what a neat thing to do.

然后你就忘了自己在玩游戏。但总的来说，我超爱道具。我觉得任何游戏都能因道具而增色。

And you forget you're playing a game. But overall, I love props. I think every every game can be enhanced by them.

完全同意。关于你提到的辅助工具，比如玩家辅助卡之类的，我觉得这些很棒。你能把法术卡之类的东西准备好，通常我会去网站打印出来，毕竟每个游戏系统都有在线资源。基本上都能找到可打印的法术列表。

Absolutely. And and let me comment on the you said the aids, like player aids and stuff like that. I think player aids are great. The fact that you can have, like, your spell cards and stuff there, generally, what I'll do is I'll go to a website and I'll print them out because everybody has an online resource for whatever the the game system is. And, generally, you can find a thing where you can print out your spells.

我不喜欢的是卡牌、标记物和那些定制骰子，就像他说的战锤奇幻角色扮演那种。这类东西让我感觉限制了自由度。我喜欢角色扮演游戏正是因为它们自由无拘，我的想象力能尽情发挥。所以搞那些剑与盾的微缩场景、物品卡，还有伤害标记什么的...

What I don't like are cards and tokens and usually custom dice, like he was talking about with the Warhammer fantasy role play. I don't like that stuff because that makes me feel like I'm not as free form as I could be. I love role playing games because they're free form. I love that my imagination is doing the work. So having a little tableau that you're building with your sword and your shield and as item cards and then, you know, you get tokens for damage and stuff.

总觉得加入这些实体物件会让体验失去些什么。不过道具是另一回事。我喜欢能让我更沉浸游戏的真实物件，比如照片、文章、信件这类东西。

I don't know. There's just something about the experience that's lost when those tangibles get added. Although props is a different story. You know? I love having something tangible that kind of immerses me in the game a little bit more like photography or articles or, you know, documents, letters, that kind of stuff.

杰米在我们DND战役里用了真硬币。他说‘我们不用记数字，直接给你们硬币’，然后你们要...

Jamie had these coins in our one D and D campaign. He's like, we're not doing like, you write down your coins. I'm giving you coins, and then you're

保管好

gonna keep

在游戏间隙用那种小绒布袋装着。我其实有点嫉妒，因为杰西卡总比我们拿到更多钱。他把小袋子扔桌上时会‘哐当’作响，而我的只会‘叮铃’一声。我总忍不住用嫉妒的眼神瞟他那边...

them in a little, like, crowd royal bag in between sessions. And I was low key jealous because Jessica was getting more money than the rest of us. So he throw his, like, little bag on the table, and it would, like, really, like, make it, like, chong when it hit the table, and mine would be, like, bling. I would always, like, be looking across the table with him, like, with some jealousy, man. Like

那是因为你总在买单，而他总在搜刮战利品。

That's because you kept paying for everything, and he kept looting everything.

没错。他花钱可比我有算计多了。

That's right. No. He he was way more wise with his money.

不，他当时有点紧张。只是我们没察觉。

No. He was kind of nervous. We just didn't know it.

我告诉你，我特别喜欢这点。你刚才说的其实很接近我在游戏里想实现的效果之一。我希望当杰斯科扛着鼓鼓的钱袋，金币哗啦倒在桌上时，能切实引发其他人的嫉妒。这种设计能在你脑海里激发真实角色应有的情绪。

I'll tell you. I love that, though. Now you saying that is kind of close to one of the things I wanted to have happen in the game. You know, I wanted there to be a tangible like, when Jesco had that big sack and it, like, funked on the table, that makes everybody else jealous. You have to that starts to, create emotions in your head like a real character would.

想象你在那个队伍里，饥肠辘辘等着吃晚饭，而杰斯科口袋里不断掉出金币。你肯定会想：凭什么钱都归你？我们下的明明是同一个地牢，我也该分一杯羹。懂我意思吗？

If you were in that party and you were hungry and you needed dinner and Jesco had money coming out of his pockets. He's like, well, how do you got all the money? I went in just the same dungeons as you. I should have a cut of that money. You know?

我认为这些实实在在的理由会真正改变角色的行为模式，对吧？

That I think those things change the way the characters actually behave because you have tangible reason to. Right?

没错。说实话我超爱道具设计。以前当你们DM时，我做过新闻简报，尝试过各种道具实验。你们总是很包容我的各种创意尝试。

Yeah. Definitely. I you know, I really love props. Like, when I've DM ed for you guys, I have created newsletters and, you know, I've tried, I've tried a lot of different props with you guys. I've been, you've been very lovely in the experiments I have done with you.

那些报纸超棒，真的绝了。

Love the newspapers. The newspapers were were awesome.

比如有次我给这些家伙剧本，礼貌请求后他们同意以游戏角色身份朗读。我们尝试过各种形式的实验，但道具始终应该增强体验而非分散注意力。

The these guys, I gave them a script and had them or asked them politely, and they did agree. To read off the script as if they were the person talking in the game. So like we did a whole bunch of different stuff with different experiments. But I think that props are there to enhance the experience. You don't want them to distract.

新闻简报的问题在于——如果能在聚餐前或上期结束时发放，你们就有时间研读思考：'我该采取什么行动？线索在哪里？'但若在游戏中途发放，就得预留阅读讨论时间。

The problem with me giving you the newsletters is if I it would be far better for me to give you the newsletters before we would, let's say, have lunch, or to give it to you at the end of a session for the next session. So you have time to read and think, oh, what do I want to do? What are the clues from this? If I give those to you at the beginning or in the middle of the session, then I have to allow you time to read them. And then I have to allow you time to discuss what's going on about them.

这会打断游戏节奏。所以必须确保每个设计要么推动游戏进程，要么加深玩家代入感，而不是造成干扰。未来我仍想用新闻简报，但会调整使用方式，让它成为真正有用的工具而非华而不实的点缀。

And it kind of interrupts the momentum of the game session itself. And so you want to just make sure that whatever you're doing is going to either help with the momentum of the game, or it's going to help get the players invested, or it's going to help with their engagement in some way versus attracting. So there are ways in which, like, I will probably love to use newsletters in the future, but I plan on doing it a little bit differently. So that way it can be useful. It can be a useful tool instead of a tool that, I don't know, gives flavor, but then maybe distracting.

记得JB有次给我们送游戏邀请函，他真的挨家挨户投递那种游戏内的信封。这种开场前的实物接触会立即激活你的想象力，让你感觉'哇，这已经不只是普通游戏了'。

JB had delivered us invitations to this one game. He, like, literally came to our houses and dropped off like this, like, envelope with our invitations to this game, like, in game letter. And, like, that kind of thing, when you receive it before a game starts, it, like, starts the wheels in your mind. You're like you're like, wow. This is like it's it makes it more than like, hey.

我们周日就去杰米家玩。我手里可是拿着特别邀请函呢。

We're just gonna go play at Jamie's house on Sunday. It's like, I have a special invitation in my hand.

我本该为那场游戏转学的。

I should have transferred for that game.

是啊。不转也挺酷的。不过那封信里还藏着不少游戏谜题，因为我觉得信的内容涉及遗产继承之类的事，我们当时还在想是不是那封。对。

Yeah. No. It would have been cool. But there's also a lot of, in game mystery wrapped up into the the letter that he wrote because it was, like, I believe it was concerning, like, an inheritance, and we were like, was was that the one it. Yeah.

而且你得仔细琢磨初始信件里的线索，这设计很妙。把信和角色卡一起拿在手里时，那封信就成了你角色的一部分，感觉超棒。

And it was, like, kinda you kinda had to, like, pay attention to the clues in the initial letter, so it was cool. Like and having that in your hand next to your character sheet is, that that letter is, you know, it's it's part of your character now. It's it's awesome.

信里还附了东方快车的车票，因为你要从所在地出发前往

It also included a train ticket for the Orient Express, cause you were going from the from wherever you were to

噢，对。

Oh, yeah.

英格兰。所以有张东方快车票，还有律师信说要给你房子什么的。最搞笑的是我把信投进大家邮箱后，亚伦的妻子把他那封当垃圾邮件扔了。

England. So there was a there was a train ticket to the Orient Express, and also a letter from the lawyer that was, you know, giving you this house or whatever. My favorite part of that was that I dropped off the letters in everybody's mailbox, and Aaron's wife threw his away. Thought it was junk mail. Yeah.

没错。我压根没收到。

Yeah. I never got one.

上面明明写着他名字

It had his name

就是

right

开

on

前面。

the front.

哦，老兄。你知道有趣的是什么吗？我超爱道具。我敢打赌，因为通常我是信息的保管者，我保留了你分发过的所有道具。我

Oh, man. You know what's funny is I I love props. I have I bet you because I'm usually the keeper of information, I have all of our prop all the props you have ever given out. I

还在 对，它们就在那个文件夹里。当然。

still Yeah, they're in that folder. Sure.

我有成堆的文件夹，就像，占满了两个柜子。两个柜子那么多，我为每个角色都创建了文件夹，里面放着期刊文章、我的笔记、讲义，所有东西。我有杰斯科的《辐射》。我们在他的《辐射》游戏里找到的那本日志，我也留着。

I have a ton of folders that, like, is a part of two cabinets. Like, two cabinet things, and I have folders that I've created for each and every character, and in there is the journal articles, like my notes, like the handouts, everything. I have Jesco's Fallout. There was this journal that we found in his Fallout game. I have that.

有太多酷东西了。我保存了上次《Pulp Cthulhu》游戏里所有关于恶魔学的资料。虽然我不一定想留着那些，但我

There's just so many cool things. I have all of the demonology type of stuff from the last, know, Pulp Cthulhu game that we had done. Not that I necessarily want to have that there, but I

留着 留着那些

have have that

那些帕瓦仪式魔法和我们学过的所有疯狂玩意儿。

the powwow magic and everything we were learning about, that crazy stuff.

没错，那些我全都有。

Yeah, I have all of that.

恶魔帕蒙，就是那个 对。纠缠着那个 嗯。是的。是的。对。

Paymon the demon who was Yeah. Haunting that Mhmm. Yep. Yep. Yeah.

杰西，有件事我想讨论一下，你提到的那个点，我希望你能再详细展开说说。你说你制作了那份简报。那份简报之所以精彩，是因为它里面藏着关于世界各地正在发生之事的线索之类的内容。所以这些其实是对我们游戏可用的重要信息，对吧？

There's one thing that I wanted to address, Jess, that you brought up, and I'd like to hear you expand on a little more. So you said that you made that that newsletter. And the newsletter was amazing because it had sort of, you know, clues in it about other things that were going on around the world and stuff. So it actually was important information for the game that we could use. Right?

你还谈到不想在游戏中途分发资料，以免破坏游戏节奏。但这里还存在另一个问题——我在《克苏鲁的呼唤》游戏中就遇到过类似情况。我准备了所有素材并一次性发给玩家，他们第一场游戏就拿到了全部内容。

And you talked about not wanting it to, lose the moment not wanting to lose the momentum of the game by giving it out like right in the middle. Well, here's the other problem I have with that. Because I sort of did that with this Call of Cthulhu game. I made all of the stuff, and I gave it to all the players. So they had the first session.

明白吗？然后他们在某个家伙办公室里发现的所有东西，我都直接给了他们。游戏结束后，我把资料全放进类似'会议记录'的频道里，说：都在这儿了——你们找到的所有照片、

Right? And then all of the stuff they found in this guy's office, I gave it to them. After the session, I put it in a, like, a session notes, channel. I said, here it is. Here's all the photographs you found.

所有物品、所有报纸文章、信件，连录音我都上传了。但...根本没人认真讨论这些。

Here's all the items you found. Here's all the newspaper articles you found. Here's letters. Here's the audio I even posted or whatever. And, and and and no one's really talking about it much.

懂我意思吗？结果不仅游戏本身的势头中断了，连两次游戏间隙的讨论热情也消退了。现在关键的是——你能听出我正在通过这个面向数千听众的播客，向我的玩家们传递信号吗？

You know I mean? So the momentum of the game ended and the momentum of the the the in between session stuff kind of faded as well. Now, it's really important. Can you tell that I'm trying to telegraph to my my players right now on this on a podcast that's going out to many thousands of people?

我完全没察觉到。

I didn't pick up that at all.

正是如此。你们本应该研读那些资料的。但现实是，在这个时代，我们很多人离开游戏桌就把游戏抛诸脑后了。明白吧？我们不会在非游戏时间投入太多角色扮演的精力。

Exactly. You wanna read that stuff and look into it. So really but no, this is the thing. In this day and age, a lot of us kind of forget about the game when we leave the game. You know, we don't put a ton of time into the role playing until we show up and leave for the session.

我觉得这确实需要平衡。没错，你不想在冒险中途抛出所有资料，否则他们会花一个半小时现场研读。但反过来说，他们游戏结束后也不会再看这些。

And I think that's also something that kind of, yeah, there's a balancing act there. Yes. You don't wanna throw all that stuff out in the middle of the adventure because then they're gonna sit there for an hour and a half looking it. But then, also, they're not gonna spend any time after the game looking at it.

对。所以我觉得如果重来一次，我会选择在开始时发放。因为大家围坐桌边时通常会先吃午餐，我们可以趁午餐结束前的闲聊时间消化资料。

Yeah. That's why I think if I were to do this again, I would want to have it at the beginning. Like, probably it would be bet because we when we all come together around the table, we usually have lunch. And we have, we shoot the shit while we're waiting for lunch to be over before we dive into something.

没错。

Right.

所以在那些闲聊的时间里，你可以用来回顾简报之类的东西。

So during that shoot the shit time frame, you could be reviewing the newsletter type of thing.

或者，

Or,

在会议接近尾声时，对吧？那时候你可以给他们信息，他们会花半小时查看并互相讨论这类事情。或者提前一小时，就像你的总结环节，对吧？或者你从那种'哦，我们完成了这件事'的兴奋中平复下来。我觉得有时候会在会议中途，你必须理解需要给玩家角色时间消化这些内容。

towards the end of the session, right? Like that's when you can give them the information, and they're spending a half an hour looking at and discussing it with each other and that type of stuff. Like, or an hour beforehand, like that's your wrap up, right? Or you're coming down off of like a high of, oh, we did this thing. That's where I feel like, yeah, sometimes it's going to be in the middle of the session and you're just going to have to understand that you have to give your PCs time to digest that stuff.

也许你可以把这考虑进去。安排某种遭遇或侧重角色扮演的活动，让他们有时间消化、理解这些内容。我不知道。但我觉得如果你准备了道具，投入了这么多时间和精力，尤其是当道具里包含重要线索时，你必须给玩家时间去，

And maybe you factor that in. You factor in some type of encounter or some type of activity that's role play heavy that allows them to you know, digest the stuff, understand the stuff, you know, that type of stuff. I don't know. Like, I, like but I feel like that if you're gonna have the prop, you put all this time and energy into the prop. And if the prop especially if the prop has very important details in it that are important for the clues, you have to give the players time to,

是啊。

like Yeah.

阅读并消化它。所以想办法把它融入游戏中，无论是开头、结尾，还是中途有理由让他们通过角色扮演来完成，我认为是有帮助的。

Read that and digest it. And so figuring out how to bake that into your game, whether it's the beginning, the end, or there's some reason for them to do it in the middle where it's part of the role play, I think is helpful.

对。我觉得还值得注意的是，有时候你不想手把手带着玩家角色。你给他们这个东西，他们应该自己阅读、从中提取信息然后做选择。作为DM，你不想说'好吧，我来给你们读这个'。

Right. I I think it's also just worth noting that, like, sometimes you don't want to handhold the PCs. Like, you give them this thing. They're expected to read it and like extrapolate information from it and then make their choices. You don't then as a DM wanna like them be like, okay, I'm gonna read this to you.

我们要一起过一遍，因为这和在会议中途浪费时间差不多。你懂我意思吗？所以如果你的玩家角色足够投入，能真正消化一些原始材料之类的内容，那就很方便了。是的。

We're gonna go over it together because it's the same thing as like kinda like wasting the time in the middle of the session. You know what I mean? So it's convenient if your PCs are engaged enough to like actually digest some of the source material and stuff like that. Yeah.

我认为有帮助的一点是，因为Bender为我们主持了很多侧重背景知识的游戏。我发现由于我们必须数字化操作，可能在会议中会有一些信息倾泻，但通常在会议结束后，Bender会发布更深入的内容。或者在游戏开始前，Bender可能会预先发布一些深入的信息。然后由我们决定是否查看，但它总是可以作为参考。

One thing that I think is helpful because, you know, Bender has run a lot of lore heavy type of games for us. And what I have found is because we we have to do things digitally. Like there a, there might be like a little bit of an info dump that happens during the session, but usually after the session's over, Bender will post a deeper dive. Or before the game's even starting, Bender might preemptively post some deeper dive information. And it's then up to us if we want to look at it or not look at it, but it's always there to reference.

所以我觉得这是个不错的做法。也许这是个很好的折中方案：你只给出足够让玩家角色前进的信息，如果他们想要更深入的了解，想要更丰富的体验，他们可以在自己的时间里去做。

And so I feel like that's a nice thing. Maybe that's like a good blend is that you have you give just enough away that the PCs can move forward. And yet, if they want that deeper dive, if they want that richer experience, they have that that they can then do on their time.

好的。那么，埃里克，希望这解答了你的问题。我知道我们刚才讨论时有点天马行空，这是我们常有的风格，但问题很棒。我特别喜欢探讨角色扮演游戏中那些具体实在的内容。

Right. Well, alrighty, Eric. I hope that answers your question. I know we kinda went off in all kinds of directions there with that one as we are want to do, but great question. Love talking about tangibles in role playing games.

现在，我们稍作休息。回来后将进入今天的讨论主题。卡巴拉斯的听众们，今天没有赞助环节，我要简短地做个创始人更新——或者更准确地说，是‘领主更新’，毕竟这是《地牢领主》播客，不过名称不重要。

And, alright, let's take a quick break here. When we get back, we'll get into our discussion topic. Alrighty, Kabalas. Well, instead of a sponsored segment today, I'm gonna do a tiny little bit of a founder's update here. Well, I guess it would actually be a Lord's update since this is the Lord's podcast, but that's neither here nor there.

卡巴拉信徒们，我们正在为《地牢领主》寻找新赞助商。有意向者请发邮件至Jamie@thesecretcabal.com，主题注明‘赞助’，我会发送详细资料并洽谈合作。说到支持秘密结社，去年的众筹项目正在履约中——

Kabbalists, we are looking for a new sponsor for Lords of the Dungeon. And if you would like to take this slot, just send me an email. Jamie@thesecretcabal.com and put in the subject sponsorship. I'll send you all the pertinent information, and we'll talk. And speaking about supporting the secret cabal, last year's Kickstarter is currently fulfilling.

支持者们陆续收到奖励包裹，衷心感谢大家的鼎力相助。若想今年继续支持我们，年度筹款活动已改至秋季，将于十月启动。这是助力‘探寻者结社’持续运作一整年的最佳方式。

People are getting all of their goodies out there. So thank you so much for your amazing support. If you would like to support the secret cabal this year, our fundraiser fundraiser is moved to the fall. It's gonna launch in October this year. This is the best way to help the Seeker Cabal keep on going for another full year.

今年十月请关注Kickstarter上的‘探寻者结社’项目，务必保持关注。卡巴洛斯们，你们持续不断的支持令人无比感动。好了各位，今日讨论主题是《保持势头》——

So this fall, in October, look for the Seeker Cabal launching on Kick Starter. Keep your eyes peeled for that. And Cabalus, thank you so much for your amazing, amazing ongoing support. Alrighty, gang. Well, today's discussion topic is entitled keeping the momentum.

这个话题源于我们最近一次游戏聚会。角色扮演游戏中有多种‘势头’可探讨，但本次我们将聚焦游戏主持人的持续运营动力：当你对某个游戏充满热情时，文思泉涌——

And this is a topic that came up at our last gaming session. And there's a lot of different types of momentum that we can talk about in regards to role playing games. But this particular discussion, we're going to focus on the momentum of the game master to continue running the game. You're really excited about a game. You're all juiced up.

你写下大量内容，主持了几场游戏，然后逐渐放缓节奏。开始感到迷失方向，玩家们也似乎变得疏离，整个战役的推进势头开始减弱。

You write all kinds of stuff. You you you run some sessions, and then you start to slow down. And then you start to get a little lost, and you're not sure where you wanna go. And the players seem to start to get disconnected. The momentum of the campaign is starting to slow.

这自然会导致主持人的创作动力衰退，推进游戏变得越来越困难。我们上次聚会讨论过这个问题——当时亚伦宣布他的《异域镇魂曲》第一章将在下个回合告一段落（这原本是个更宏大故事的开始），部分原因正是他难以维持战役的推进势头。

And, of course, that will inevitably mean that the momentum of the GM will start to slow. It'll get harder to write the game and to continue pushing that game forward. And we talked about this a little bit at our last game session because Aaron announced that chapter one of his Planescape game is going to come to a close on the next session. Chapter one of a much bigger story, but this is where he's going to let it go for right now. And part of that is that you were having trouble with your momentum, keeping your momentum for the campaign.

AC，我想请你谈谈这个情况。你现在的感受如何？是什么让你意识到需要暂停？

And AC, I'd like you to talk a little bit about that. How are you feeling and why did you come to that realization?

确实如此。希望我能以业余游戏主持人的身份，为这个话题带来些独特视角。

So, yeah, this this all came about and hopefully I bring a unique perspective to this being a, you know, very amateur GM.

但我们都是如此，因为我们没有为此得到报酬。

But we all are because we're not paid for it.

嗯，你懂我意思吧？一个新手。

Well, you know what I mean? A newbie.

没错。

That's right.

我啊，其实准备得很充分，我不该说准备，而是我构思《异域镇魂曲》战役的序幕超过了一年。肯定超过一年。你会懂的——就是那种在脑海里幻想各种场景，幻想玩家会看到什么、感受到什么的状态。

I like, I had been preparing well, I I won't say preparing, but I had been thinking about the intro to my Planescape campaign for over a year. It had to be over a year. And I would you know how you do. You you fantasize about different scenes. You fantasize about the things that you want your players to see, what you want your players to feel.

我在所谓的'第一集'（其实是两场游戏）上投入了无数时间和心思。嗯哼。后来大家玩得很开心，反响特别好。

And I put so much time and thought into that first the the quote, unquote, first episode, which was actually two sessions. Mhmm. And then, you know, we had it. Everybody seemed to love it. It was great.

但后续章节我没能保持同样的准备水准。这周日就要迎来终章了，我却没做准备。我对自己很失望，上次游戏结束后就坦白说了——最后这几章的准备远不如之前充分。

And then I had to continue on. I had a story, but I didn't have the same level of preparedness for the following chapters. And I found that now that we're getting, you know, we're we're actually coming up on the last one this Sunday. I did not prepare, and I was disappointed in myself, and I brought it up. I brought it up after the last game because I did not prepare for this these last few chapters nearly as much as I did the other ones.

我没构思过想让你们看见什么、做什么，没有设计反转，没有兴奋点。纯粹就是想着'别搞砸露怯就行'。

I didn't think about them. I didn't fantasize about, you know, what I wanted you to see, what I wanted you to do. I didn't have the twists. I didn't have the excitement or anything like that. It was it really came down to, I just wanna get through this and not look like an idiot.

真的，就是...

And seriously, that's that's

差不多

kind of

我当时的感觉。因为没准备，就只求别出丑。光顾着让你们尽兴别冷场，反而没正经备团。上次结束后我们讨论时突然意识到——知道吗？

what I was feeling like. Like, I was not prepared, so I just didn't wanna look like an idiot. I wanted to keep you guys entertained and not fail. And I was so focused on that that I didn't actually prepare for the game. So we started talking about it after, you know, after that last game and it came up, you know what?

这确实是个值得讨论的好话题。所以，自从那场游戏后我就一直在思考这个问题，直到现在我还是没有答案。就是...我当时完全没有准备充分，也不想让自己看起来像个傻瓜。

This would be a pretty good topic to talk about. So, yeah, that it it really came down to I've been thinking about it since since since that game, and I've I still don't have an answer. Like, it was it was just I was not prepared, and I didn't wanna look like an idiot.

那么亚伦，让我先回应你刚才说的话。因为你听起来很在意这件事，似乎让你非常困扰——关于自己表现不佳这件事。我想说的是...

Well, let me start off by replying to what you said there, Aaron. Because you sound like that you're concerned about it. Like, this bothers you a lot Yeah. That you didn't do well. Well, let me say this.

你并不孤单。几乎所有人在每场游戏后都有同样的感受。大家总担心准备不足，总觉得自己做得不够好，总害怕玩家会不喜欢。

You are not alone. Everybody feels the same way with just about all of their games. They're worried they're not prepared. They don't think they have enough. They don't think that they're going to that the players are going to like it.

虽然我相信有些游戏主持人自认为是世界上最棒的，但像我们这样的普通人都会神经质地害怕在朋友面前搞砸。我敢说你表现得和Bender、我、Jess还有Jesco一样出色。你做得很好，我完全没看出你那场游戏准备不足，这说明你其实准备得很充分。

I mean, I'm sure there's plenty of GMs out there that that think they're the greatest thing on the planet. But the rest of us the rest of us are neurotic and are scared about, like, standing in front of their friends and and and screwing up. I will tell you that you did just as well as Bender does, as I does, as Jess does, Jesco does. You did a great job. I did not know that you were underprepared for the game, which tells me that you were not underprepared for the game.

你已经准备得足够好了，只是对自己太苛刻。

You prepared enough for it. You just you're hard on yourself.

是啊...我确实没达到之前的准备程度。你知道第一场游戏时，我脑子里早就构思好了那些场景，那些场景我反复琢磨了整整一年。

Yeah. I well, I didn't prepare to the level that I had before. You know, that first one, you know, I had these scenes in my head. I had worked these scenes out over a year. It was just over and over and over again.

但后来的游戏我就没这么做了。基本上就是边走边看，现场发挥。

And these the following games, I didn't do that. You know, it it was, you know, what can what can we figure out on the way here? You know?

但是

But

AC，我有个问题要问你。如果你花了一年时间准备最初几场游戏，而每场都要保持同样水准的准备，那你要准备十年才能完成十场游戏。

Well, AC, here's my question to you. Right? If it took you a year to come up with the first, you know, set couple sessions, and you wanted to put that same level of preparation to every game session, you would be preparing for a decade before you would be able to have 10 sessions.

别误会我确实花了一年时间准备。确切说是从决定要开《异域镇魂曲》游戏到真正运行第一场之间隔了一年。其实中间很多时间我根本没在想游戏的事。

Don't don't don't think that I actually spent a year preparing it. It was a year from I'm gonna run a Planescape game until we ran that first session. Right. You know, there was a lot of time in between there I wasn't thinking about the game.

他有很多次坐在马桶上思考这件事，而她也是。确实如此。

He had a lot of toilet she had a lot of toilet sittings where he was thinking about it, and that Exactly. Was

是的。所以我的问题是，因为你花了整整一年时间构思和思考这个，虽然不是连续一整年完成，但确实是经过长时间积累的，是什么让你觉得比准备其他环节时更有把握？

Yes. So my question to you is, like, because you had that year of just ideating and thinking about this, even though it wasn't like a solid year straight to finish, but it was over time, what about that made you feel more prepared than what you put towards the other sessions?

好的。这是个相当不错的问题。优化正是我做的事情之一，就像我的一个爱好。我会优化那些场景。

Alright. So that that's a pretty good question. And that is one of the things I do is optimize. Like, it's just one of my hobbies. And I optimize those scenes.

我脑海中存有这些场景。有些东西我想让你们看到，想让你们感受，想让你们体验。在那一年里，我会反复思考这些场景并进行调整。为了精炼我想传达的——

I had these scenes in my head. There were things that I wanted you to see, that I wanted you to feel, I wanted you to experience. And over that year, I would think about those scenes and I would tweak them. I would, you know, in order to refine what I wanted you to

感受。嗯。

feel Mhmm.

并确保你们能真切感受到。

And make sure that you could actually feel it.

嗯。

Mhmm.

明白吗？这就是区别。对于后续的冒险，我没有做任何精炼工作。就像有个点子突然冒出来，我就直接用了。在我看来，这对你们是不公平的。

You know? So that's the difference. For the following adventures, I didn't do any refining. It was just like I had an idea popping in my head and I ran with it. And to me, that was doing you guys a disservice.

我知道你们可能会不同意，但我确实没有像对待第一个那样投入同等的思考、准备和优化。

Now I know you'll you'll probably disagree with me, but I did not put in the same level of thought and preparation and optimization that I did for the first one.

嗯，我认为，当我在思考你所说的这些，亚伦，以及你如何设计你的游戏时，其中一个解决方案可能是——让我先说明一点。准备这类游戏有两种不同的方式。我是说，你可以为两种不同类型的游戏做准备。一种是像你这样的短期游戏，大概跑了六场左右。

Well, I think that, when when I think about what you're saying here, Aaron, and how you worked on your game here, I think one of the solutions that could be well, let me just say this beforehand. There's two different ways to prepare for these kinds of games. There's two different types of games that you can prepare for is what I'm saying. You can prepare for a short term game like yours. You ran for, like, six sessions roughly.

原本预计是五到六场游戏会话就结束的。从来就没想过会持续一两年像那些长期战役一样。所以现在有短期游戏计划，也有长期游戏的规划。既然我们现在处于短期游戏阶段，那就先专注这个吧。

It was five or six sessions it was going to be. And that was all it's ever gonna be. We didn't expect this to go on for a year or two years like some long term campaigns. So there's the shorter term game, and then there's planning for a longer term game. Let's, like, focus on the shorter term game since that's where we are right now with your game.

我理解的问题是，你可能过度关注了某一方面而完全忽略了其他。我认为工作流程需要改进。对吧？你必须把故事看作一系列情节节点。

What I'm hearing is that maybe the problem is that you hyper focused on one aspect and didn't focus at all on the other. And you I think the workflow needs to be better. Right? Where Yes. You you have to think about the story as a series of beats.

明白吗？你需要把握那些关键节点。你们游戏的第一场会话就是个节点——我们四处搜寻，那个小女孩失踪了。

Right? Like and you need to hit those certain beats. One of the beats for your game was your very first session. We were searching around. The little girl went missing.

我们追捕绑架她的人。重要情节节点是发现女孩和囚禁她的邪恶巫师那场戏：巨型传送门出现，物品被吸入，女孩也被卷了进去。我们当时就想'糟了，必须救她回来'。

We were chasing the guys who kidnapped her. And one of the beats was that big scene where we found the girl and we found the evil wizard that had her. There was a giant portal and things are getting sucked into the portal, and the girl got sucked into the portal. We're like, oh, no. We have to go get her.

这就是你的核心故事节点。接下来你需要设计下一个节点。你要提前规划好'我知道故事要在这里收尾'。

That was, your big story beat. Right? You needed a the next story beat. And you sort of plan those things out as to, okay. I know I'm going to end it here.

中间需要多少个节点？我打算设置三个重大故事高潮点。然后围绕这些节点展开构建，而不是只构建一个部分就指望后续能自然成型。对吧？

How many the how many beats do I need in between? I'm gonna have three big story moments, big climactic moments. And then you build around those and you sort of build out from those as opposed to building one thing and then just kind of hoping it all works out as you progress. Right?

见鬼！为什么我们不在我规划之前就进行这场对话

Damn it. Why didn't we have this conversation before I planned all

呢？那个

this? That

那个...确实如此。完全说得通。我之前没从这个角度考虑，但你是对的。我只规划了第一个节点，对后面两三个节点只有模糊想法。

that may that it does. It makes perfect sense. I did not I did not look at it that way, but you're right. I planned beat one, and I had a a an inkling, an idea for the next two or three beats.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但我当时并没有为他们准备任何具体内容。确实如此。你说得对。我本应该把它看作是一个短期战役，把第一到第六阶段的剧情都规划好并完成，而不是简单地为你们做个开场介绍。

But I didn't have, you know, anything fleshed out for them. Right. And you're right. What I should have done is I should have looked at it as a, like, not not doing an intro for you guys, but doing a short term campaign and having beats one through six fleshed out and done. Yeah.

你说得完全正确。

You're absolutely right.

中间那些可以快速略过的部分，对吧？那是我们在角色扮演，结识人物，打几个小怪之类的。

All the stuff in the middle that you can just blow by that stuff. Right? That's us role playing. That's us meeting people. That's us fighting a couple guys.

对吧？然后我们来到下一个重要剧情节点，这才是你投入全部时间的地方。而且很有趣的是，你要设法让这成为当天最后的内容，留下一个悬念——就像亚伦你在第一个故事里做的那样，在高潮时刻结束当天的游戏，吊足我们胃口。

Right? And then we get to the next big story moment, and that's where you focused all your time. And it's really fun to try to time it so that that's the last thing you get in the day. So you're left with sort of a cliffhanger, which is exactly what you did, Aaron, with that first one. You left the you ended the day on the big climactic moment and left us hanging, you know?

当我们回来时

And when we came back

悬念太棒了，它能保持游戏势头。

Cliffhangers are great. They're great for momentum.

效果惊人。

They're amazing.

悬念会让你迫不及待想参加下次聚会。如果下次内容只是'哦，我们要处理一堆后勤事务'，那多无趣。

Cliffhanger, like, makes you wanna come back to the table the next time. You know? If if it's like, oh, well, the next time, what are we gonna be doing? Ah, it's a bunch of logistics. We have to go do all this.

听着，你们正站在悬崖边缘与双足飞龙搏斗，半数队员已经倒下——这才叫刺激。

Like, that's not exciting. You're like, listen. You guys are on the precipice of a cliff. You're fighting a Wyvern. You know, half the party's down.

没错。

Yeah.

你们打算做什么？下次见。你们懂我意思吗？你们就像，哇。就像是，

What are you guys gonna do? See you next time. You know what mean? You guys are like, wow. Like, it like,

我讨厌那种结局。

that I hate those endings.

不，但那挺好的。

No. But that's that's good.

那实际上就像是，让你的玩家们回到游戏桌前。这都是关于积累势头的。我写作时，会尝试把握大故事节点。我们过去讨论过，不能总是只有战斗，必须要有大量角色扮演的部分。

That's that's actually, like, getting your players back to the table. That's all about building momentum. When I write, I try to do the big story beats. I I like we've talked about it in the past, like, you you can't always just be combat, so there has to be, like, a bunch of role playing. Yeah.

我喜欢给玩家们很多创意时间之类的，让他们构建自己的世界，帮我完善这个世界。但我也非常注意给自己留些灵活空间，因为我会注意到桌边玩家打哈欠或气氛下滑时，就知道需要在这里插入一场战斗了。懂吗？

I like to let the players have, like, a a lot of creative time and stuff like that and, like, build their own world and help me build the world. But I also very much very much try to leave myself some wiggle room because I'll notice around the table players are yawning or something's going down. Like, oh, we need a fight right here to, Mhmm. You know? You know?

所以我会

So I'll

留白 对。对。

leave Yeah. Yeah.

没错。我会预留战斗。比如在这个地方有群人会与玩家角色交战。但如果发现大家不感兴趣——如果都在专注角色发展和角色扮演？

Yeah. I'll leave a fight. Like, you know, here in this place, there's this group of people who will take a fight with the PCs. And I'll I'll oh oh, but it doesn't look like we're into that. We're we're doing character development and role play?

完全没问题。战斗

No problem. Mhmm. The fighting

不必非要

The don't have to

Mojang根本没必要攻击那个...你懂我意思吧？他们不需要这么做，因为玩家们已经沉浸其中，角色塑造得相当出色。就像...你明白吗？所以干脆别把战斗扯进来。

The Mojang don't have to attack the you know what I mean? They don't have to do it because the players are getting down and dirty and, really good character development. And, like, you know what I mean? Like, so just leave the fight out.

别提了。这种体验...虽然我个人没有亲身经历过，但听你这么说真的很有价值。这完全说得通。我给你们准备的所有内容里，连一丁点自由发挥的余地都没留。

Forget it. And that's that's the kind of that's the kind of experience that, you know, I don't have personally. But to hear it is so valuable. Like, that makes so much sense. Like, I don't have a wiggle room in any of my in anything that I've written for you guys so far.

前几次完全是按部就班。接下来的环节基本也是固定流程，后来我才稍微放开让你们发挥，但我当时缺乏这种组织规划能力。这建议真的非常宝贵。

Like, the first couple were completely on rails. The the next session was basically on rails, and then I kinda opened it up and let you guys play, but I didn't have I didn't have that kind of organization or preparation. Like, this is really valuable.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

真希望我能回到过去。要是有人发明了时光机，请务必告诉我。

And I wish I could go back in time. And if anybody out there has invented a time machine, please let me know.

听着AC，初次主持游戏的精妙之处就在于此。这是你第一次运作真正的多环节游戏，上次给我们主持还是202年的事。

Well, see, here's the thing, AC. This is what's great about running these games for your first time. This is, like, the first time you've run a real multisession game. The last time you ran a game for us was 2020.

那次是单次性的。

It's a one o off.

而且确实...

And it was Yeah.

就是个一次性星际迷航主题。对。

It's just a one off Star Trek thing. Yeah.

星际迷航主题。那次很棒，你做得很好。但这次是你首次尝试长期企划，不可能要求自己尽善尽美。

Star Trek thing. And it was great. You did a great job. This is your first, like, long term session. You can't expect to be perfect.

你这次活动做得太棒了，虽然还有些地方可以改进。我觉得能坐下来讨论如何做得更好真的很棒。这些对话本身就让人兴奋地想回去再试一次，你懂我意思吗？

You did an incredibly amazing job, with this campaign, but, like, you found things that you can fix. And that's, I think, amazing that we can sit down and talk about it, about how you could get better. And just having these conversations makes you excited to go back and try to read to do it again. You know what I'm saying?

确实如此。真的。信不信由你，我为这个活动写了完整的故事线。而我选取了其中最精华的1%来启动这个项目。

It does. Yeah. It really does. Like I I I had written an entire storyline for this campaign, believe it or not. And I picked, like, the top, you know, the first 1% of that storyline to get it going kind of thing.

这就是我现在展示给你们的内容。考虑到这点，如果未来我们决定重返Planescape（我很希望如此），我会采纳这些建议，完善这些故事节点，让它更...我不确定是否该说'分集式'，但我绝对不想做成线性流程。

And that's what I'm that's what I'm presenting to you guys. Now, with this in mind, like, later, if, you know, if we decide to come back to Planescape, which I do hope we do in the future, then, yeah, I'm gonna take this advice and I'm going to build out these story beats and, like, actually make it like, I don't I I don't know if I wanna say episodic. I I definitely don't wanna be on rails.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但这值得思考。构建一个游戏单元，这和...

But it's something else to think about. Build a session. It's not the same

分集不一样。你可以为每个单元搭建骨架。懂我意思吗？比如从这里开始角色扮演，然后进入探索环节，

thing as an episode. The session itself, you can, like, kind of build a skeleton of it. You know what I mean? Like, we're gonna start here with some role play. We're gonna get into exploration.

我要把他们吓得半死。接着会有场战斗。我尽量运用各种元素，比如在游戏里加入搞笑时刻。嗯。

I'm gonna scare the crap out of them. There's gonna be this, like, fight that takes place. I try to, like, use as many things as I possibly can. Like, I wanna put a funny moment into the game. Mhmm.

明白吗？要出其不意，比如你们突然要对付下水道里的地底矮人。如果他没...懂吧？加入些不按常理出牌的内容，就像两道菜之间吃个橙子那种感觉，明白吗？

You know what I mean? And it's unexpected, and all of a sudden, you guys are, like, dealing with this, like, dwarf, a gully dwarf underneath the sewers. And if he doesn't you know what I mean? Like like, throw in something that's offbeat or something that's, like, kinda because, like it's almost like like when you eat an orange between two courses. You know what I mean?

就是那种感觉，

It's like that,

类似那种

like, kind

就像，对，它有点像味觉清洁剂。这样，你懂的，你不必非得局限于角色扮演战斗，明白我的意思吗？

of like yeah. It's like a palate cleanser. So that, like, you kinda, like you know what I mean? You you don't have to, like it doesn't only just have to be, like, role play fight. You know what I mean?

它可以更多样化。比如让团队建造些东西——你们的房子长什么样？船是什么样？懂我意思吧？

You could it can be more diverse. You can, like, let the party build something. Like, what does your house look like? What does your boat look like? You know what I mean?

你们可以做很多事情，让玩家在桌游中以多种方式获得乐趣。嗯哼。明白吗？然后围绕这个构建你的游戏环节。就像说‘我打算这么做，并且会努力让它有趣’。

You can you can do, like, a lot of things and let the players have fun in a lot of ways at the table. Mhmm. You know what I mean? And, like, and just your session build around that. You say, like, this is what I'm gonna do, and I'm gonna, like, try to make it fun.

如果看起来不太有趣，那就给自己留几个备选方案。

And if it doesn't look so fun, then you, like, leave yourself a couple other options.

所以我想回到‘势头’这个概念，我缺失的正是这个——一个保持势头的计划。我已经做了开头，第一集有正确的故事节奏和情感铺垫，但缺乏持续的动力。

So, I kinda wanna, if I can, like, try to circle back to this idea of momentum, and that's exactly what I was missing is a a goal, like a plan for how to keep that momentum going. I I had already done it. Like, I had already created a pretty good first episode with, you know, the the the right story beats and the emotion and everything, but I didn't have that momentum.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我当时不够理解如何延续这种势头并将其发展到后续环节中。

I didn't understand the momentum enough to carry it forward and build it into the next sessions.

文档里有句话特别应景：过度准备会导致倦怠。如果你准备大量内容却反响平平，比如道具没人欣赏，就会像我们之前说的，很快精疲力尽。过度准备的后果是结束后你会不断想着‘这个没做到，那个漏掉了’。

We have something in the document I just think fits right in perfectly here because there's also burnout. If you do, like, a whole bunch of preparation and it just doesn't hit and like the plate, like it's not appreciated and stuff like that, you could get so quickly burnt out from like making props like we were talking before and doing all these steps. There's overpreparate there's overpreparation because you're gonna be left after the session like, wow, I missed that. I missed this. I missed this.

‘这个没完成，那个没触及’，因为你准备了150件事却只实现了40件。

I missed this. I didn't hit any of these notes because you had so many things prepared. You're like, I'm gonna hit them with a 150 things, and you only got to 40 of them.

没错。我认为‘聪明准备’是防止倦怠的关键。倦怠可能两场游戏后就出现——开头很顺利，接着就卡壳了。

Right. And I think that's another part of of preparing smartly. I think preparing smartly is a way to sort of stave off that burnout because burnout can happen very fast. It can happen after two sessions. You know, you ran this great right first couple of sessions, and then I'm like, boy, I'm stuck.

我不知道接下来该往哪里走。你知道吗？所以更聪明的规划可以某种程度上解决这个问题。就像，亚伦，我之前和你聊过节奏的问题。我觉得这一点在这里也同样适用。

I don't know where to go from here. You know? So planning smarter, can sort of fix that. Like, Aaron, I was talking to you about the beats. And I think that's another thing that can apply here as well.

如果你知道你的战役会在哪里结束，你希望玩家们最终到达何处？你希望他们发现什么，又希望他们在终点击败什么样的存在？这样你就有了开头和结尾。而所有的倦怠感和动力流失都发生在中间阶段，当你一集接一集规划的时候。所以在游戏真正开始前，你就可以先构建好那五个关键节奏点。

If you know that where your sesh where your campaign is going to end, Where do you want the players to end? What do you want them to discover, and what do you want them to defeat whatever it is at the end? So you have the beginning, and you have the end. And all of the burnout and all of the momentum loss comes in the middle there where you're planning session to session. So before you actually even start the game, you can you can build out those five beats.

就像这样：好的，我要确保在我的游戏中安排这五个重要场景。你可以尽情打磨这些场景，让它们成为贯穿游戏的精彩绝伦的高光时刻。这些都已经准备就绪，随时可以投入使用。然后在每场游戏之间的准备时间里，你只需要准备沿途会发生的有趣小事件。

Be like, okay. I wanna make sure that I have all five of these set piece moments to happen throughout my game. And you can develop the hell out of those so that there'll be these beautiful, amazing, awesome set piece moments that are gonna happen throughout your game. And those are all in the hopper ready to go for when they actually happen. And then when you're preparing between sessions, all you're preparing for is all the fun little things that are going to happen along the way.

所有那些小元素，比如本德提到过的喜剧时刻、战斗场景、角色成长时刻之类的。各种元素都可以混搭在一起。就像个百宝袋，你可以随时从里面掏出需要的东西。

All the little like, you can have all kinds of, like, Bender talked about, like, you know, the the comedic moment, the the combat, the, the character building moment, like, stuff like that. All kind of mixed in there. It's almost like a grab bag. You could just have that Yeah. Just pull that out of the sack when you're ready for it.

而且你不需要过度准备

And you don't need to prepare

就像这样。比如，把聚光灯打到我们的游侠身上。砰。

like here. Like, spotlight on our ranger. Boom.

没错。你不需要在这些细节上过度准备，因为玩家们会帮你填补空白。你只需要确保那些重要时刻足够精彩，因为那才是他们会记住的东西。对吧？所以我认为保持动力的方法就是着眼于下一个重要时刻，好好打造它，然后...

Yeah. And you don't need to prepare those things very heavily because the players are gonna fill in the gaps for you there. You just need to make the big moments fun for them because that's what they're gonna remember. Right? So I think to keep the momentum is that you look to the next big moment and develop that And just have

是的。这个建议很...

That's yeah. That's good to

达成目标。对吧？我喜欢这个思路。嗯。

get there. Right? I like that. Mhmm.

我发现和你们进行的最近两场游戏里，我完全过度准备了，主要是因为我害怕搞砸。我真的特别担心。毕竟你们可是大佬啊。是的，我可不想在大佬面前出洋相。

I I found that with the last two games that I've run with you guys, I totally was over prepared and over preparing for them, mainly because I didn't wanna fuck up. I really was worried. I mean, y'all the lords. Yeah. Like, I didn't want to mess up with the lords.

在我参与的其他一些活动和与朋友相处时，没有这种压力，因为我们没有一个专门剖析事物的播客。

I with some of my other campaigns and friends and everything, there wasn't the same type of pressure because we don't have a podcast where we dissect things.

是啊，没错。

Yeah, right.

就像和这个团队在一起时这样。

Like, with this group.

确实如此，对吧？你只要流露出一丝软弱，我们就会讨论上半小时。

It's true. Right? Yeah. You you show one moment of weakness. We're gonna talk about it for half an hour.

我想回过头来聊聊这个。

I wanna circle back.

亚伦，我们在你的游戏里玩得很开心。当你像《绿野仙踪》里那样揭开幻象，向我们展示那些绿色镶边时...

Aaron, we had a great time at your game. So, like, when you're, like, pulling the, the illusion away that you're doing the the the the wizard of Oz to us, you're showing us that the, you you know, the the green hemming

完全不知道在干嘛。我当时就是在胡搞瞎搞，纯属随机瞎编。

idea what that yeah. I had no idea what the hell I was doing. It was a complete random nonsense. Yeah.

说实话，大多数地下城主都是临场发挥。他们甚至没有战斗策略计划，就指望朋友们能玩得开心。我们当时特别投入角色扮演。

Most DMs are winging it. Let's be honest. Most DMs don't even have a battle plan strategy. They just trust their friends to get around and have a good time. We were so interested in playing our characters.

杰米完全沉浸在扮演野蛮人中。我努力演绎武士形象。杰西卡则认真扮演法师，用智慧思考问题，提供魔法解决方案。我们理应享受你的游戏，因为这就是我们的目的所在。

Jamie was so invested in playing as barbarian. I was trying to portray the samurai. Jessica's really trying to be our wizard and, like, be intelligent and think out our problems, you know, and and and offer magical solutions to them. It behooved us to play your game and have fun doing it because that's what we're there to do. You know?

这也涉及到杰斯说的过度准备问题。你必须相信玩家们也会全力以赴。你准备的是游戏环境和互动框架，而我们则会填补你没想到的所有空白。

And And this is part this goes into what Jess is talking about with the over preparedness. Right? Because you have to trust that your players are going to bring it as well. Because you're preparing for the game to play to the environment for us to interact in. We're gonna show up and we're gonna fill in all of the gaps that you didn't think about.

对吧？

Right?

这在我们游戏里也发生过。我们玩《被遗忘的国度：剑湾》战役时，我记得我给杰米出了个难题。我的风暴牧师在那个野蛮人岛上搞了些事情。杰米当时就说，‘哟’

That also this has happened in our game. We we played our Forgotten Realm Sword Coast campaign. I remember I threw Jamie a curveball. My my priest tempest did something on this island barbarians. Jamie's like, yo.

我真的得好好想想这事。你懂我意思吗？他就像，今天就到这里吧。当时大概凌晨四点。明白吗？

I actually have to think about this. You know I mean? He, like, this is just like, this is where we're ending for today. It was, like, four 04:00. You know?

我们通常五点才结束。然后他说，你们这次有点偏离轨道了，我需要点时间准备。玩家角色对你做的事可能看起来很刻薄，但他们只是在扮演角色。他们做自己。懂我意思吗？

We usually end at, like, five or whatever. And he's like, you guys have, like, jumped off the rails a little bit here, and I need I need a little bit of preparation. Your PCs can do things to you that you it's it's it seems mean, but they're just playing their characters. They're being themselves. You know what I mean?

就像你心想‘给我回到正轨上’，但他们觉得‘不，这对我的角色很重要’

Like, you know, you're like, get back on my rail. And, like, no. This is important to my character.

从DM节奏的角度看，我认为还有一点很重要：不是每个你讲述的故事都能打动玩家，而且效果可能和你预想的完全不同。

That's another thing I think is really important from a DM momentum standpoint, is that not every story that you tell as a DM is gonna hit with the players, and it may not always hit with the players in the way in which you visioned.

那我就是个失败者。

Then I'm a failure.

但这不意味着你失败了。我是说，如果你太...该怎么表达？不是说你执念，但如果你太在意——懂吗？比如你希望他们感受某种情绪而他们没感受到，这可能会让你在游戏中完全乱了阵脚。是的。

Well, but that doesn't mean you're a failure. It's like, but if if you're so, how do I, how do I put this? If you're so obsessed, not that you're obsessed, but like, if you're so worried, right? About, I want them to feel this emotion and they don't feel that emotion, then it can completely throw you off while you're in the middle of the game. Yes.

如果你试图，比如说...

If you are if you are trying to, like, if you're trying to

营造恐惧。你想让他们害怕，结果他们在笑。对对。是这样吧？

Portray fear. Like, you're trying to go for fear, and they're laughing. Yeah. Yeah. Right?

他们在讲笑话。

They're telling jokes.

对吧？这简直让人抓狂。你会想，我要干掉你们其中一个。明白吗？就像，

Right? It's it's maddening. You're like, I'll I'll kill one of you. You understand that? Like,

不是你的角色。是你本人。对。

you Not your character. You. Yeah.

但你看，我们必须让玩家角色明白，他们不只是我们可以随意操控的书本角色。

But see, we have to give we have to give the PCs understand that the PCs are not just characters in a book that we get to control.

没错。

Right.

如果想那样做，不如去写小说。我们正在尝试的是创造一个协作叙事的空间。这意味着我们必须接纳玩家们的任何反应方式，并愿意相应调整。我觉得当你准备过度时，反而可能适得其反。

If we wanna do that, write a novel. What we're trying to do is we're trying to create a collaborative storytelling environment. And that means that we have to be receptive of whatever, however they take it, and we have to be willing to make adjustments accordingly. And that has been something that I feel like when you're too prepared, it can hurt you.

完全正确。这是百分百存在的现象。你可能花费大量时间，甚至精疲力竭地构思那些内容，兴奋地认为这将成为最棒的体验，玩家们一定会喜欢。结果却发现你某种程度上准备错了方向——你准备的东西玩家们根本没有接触到。

Absolutely. That's 100% a thing. You could spend so much time and almost burn yourself out creating those things and juicing yourself up that this is gonna be the greatest and all the players are gonna love this stuff. And then you come to realize that you sort of misprepared. You prepared stuff that the players just didn't end up interacting with.

由于这种错误投入，你会感到必须继续追加补救。那时你已处于损害控制模式，试图修补既有的设计，而不是为下一场游戏构建全新更好的内容。嗯。

And because of that misspent effort, you then feel the need to continue to try to compound on it. You're in damage control mode at that point trying to fix what you built instead of building something new and better for the next session. Mhmm.

我不喜欢...有些内容我试图创造是因为，杰米，我跟你一样。我会特别兴奋，像个书呆子似的想着'这太棒了，咱们把所有这类元素都加进去'。但我却忽略了关键部分——我希望你们获得这种体验，同时保有自主选择权，结果我漏掉了设计故事节奏脉络图。

I didn't like, there were certain things that I was trying to create because, Jamie, I'm like you. Like, I get super excited about it. I nerd out, and I'm like, oh, this is so exciting. Let's do all this type of thing. But then I I missed critical things, And I wanted you guys to have this experience, but I wanted you to have the autonomy to make your choices that I missed having a map of story beats.

我知道有不同目标想让你们达成，但从未规划过'这个节点衔接那个节点'。我准备了许多可供选择的小任务线，每条都有独立节奏，却缺乏贯穿整个体验的连续性设计。

I knew I had different things I wanted you to do, but I never had any this beat goes to this beat to this had a whole series of little quests you could go on that all had their own individual beats, but nothing to have continuity of the whole experience.

是的，你有一个经验框架，里面构建了很多内容，但没有任何东西将其联系起来，什么都没有

Yeah, you had an experience framework, and you had so much built into it, but there was nothing tying it Nothing

来保持势头持续下去。

to keep the momentum going.

没错。剖析自己的东西没问题，但探索环境本身就很有趣。你为我们打造了这座巨大的桥梁城市。我们在多层结构中穿行，观察、角色扮演，做了所有这些事情。

Yeah. It's it's fine to dissect your stuff, but it's fun to just explore an environment. You made this huge bridge city for us. We walked around the multiple levels. We saw, we role played, we did all these things.

有时候重点就在于探索场景本身。你明白我的意思吗？这完全没问题。我热爱探索，这是我在场景中最喜欢的部分之一。

Sometimes the point is just to explore the setting. You know what mean? That's That's fine. I love exploration. It's one of my favorite things in a setting.

我特别喜欢那种选择，比如要不要进入下一个房间？你听到一些声音——可能是鼓点节奏、机器运转声——那种让你犹豫是该推门一探究竟，还是转身离开的时刻。嗯，我超爱这类抉择。

I love, like, the choice where, like, do you wanna go into that that next room? You hear something that might, you know, potentially, like, some drumming beats, some machinery, something that, like, do we really wanna see what's behind this door, or should we just leave? Mhmm. I love that kind of, like, those those choices.

但问题是这样的。明白吗？这些都没错。可如果你是DM，而你构建这个广阔世界或微观世界供探索的初衷之一就是保持游戏势头，结果所有玩家都决定'我们得离开这儿，这地方太疯狂了'对吧？

Here's the thing, though. Right? That's all fine and dandy. But then if you're a DM and part of your momentum has been creating this vast world for exploration, or this vast, like, little microcosm for exploration, and all your players decide, Oh, we gotta get out of here. This place is cray cray, right?

这时作为DM，你必须明白：是的，你可能创造了惊艳绝伦的东西，但它不适合这个团队或这个时机。你要么学会放手，跟随玩家的引导；要么尝试调整方向。对我来说，失去势头是因为我无法让玩家对那个区域产生兴趣。我本该直接说'这里随时欢迎你们来探索'，然后放手跟随他们的脚步——这样反而能保持势头。我的症结在于执着于自己的创作，有时候你需要放下结果、放弃控制，允许玩家抛出意外球，让这些激发你的创造力继续跟进。

Then you, as the DM, need to understand that, yeah, you might have created something amazing and awesome, but it's not for this group or at this time. And either you have to be willing to let that go and or just keep following as the players are guiding you, or you might try to course correct, or you I think for me, I lost momentum because I couldn't figure out how to make the players interested in that area. What I should have just done is I should have just said, hey, this here for you whenever you want to go to it and just release it and allow and and follow them where they're going because then I would have had more momentum. I wouldn't have lost my momentum. My momentum was stuck on what I had created when sometimes you just have to release the outcome and release the control and just allow your players to throw you those curveballs and then just allow that to inspire your creativity to follow.

对。现在节目接近尾声，我想聊聊如何解决这些势头问题。当势头衰退时，我们能做些什么？我认为首先要承认——亚伦我知道你也有同感——我最大的问题是游戏筹备期的拖延症。

Right. Now I wanna talk about now that we're kinda closing in on the end of the episode here, I wanna talk about some things that we can do to sort of maybe fix some of these momentum problems. Are momentum's failing? What can we do to fix it? And I think one of the things I wanna throw out there from myself and, Aaron, I know you have had this problem as well because I think you commented to me, but it's my biggest problem is that I procrastinate when it comes to games.

对吧？我会在游戏初期花大量时间准备战役设定，就像我们讨论的那样。但当我们说'两周后有游戏 session，我只需要写下冒险故事的下一部分'时...

Right? I will spend a lot of time preparing for the fur at the beginning of the game to prepare the campaign setting like we talked about. But then when we're like, okay. In two weeks, we have a game session. And all I gotta do is write the next part of the the adventure.

对吧？就是为下一场 session 做准备的工作。

Right? The work on the next session.

我只需要做这些。对。引用一下，我只需要做这些。

All I gotta do. Yep. Quote, all I gotta do.

周六晚上10点。周六晚上10点。我我我疯狂地打字、点击，试图理清一切，为怪物之类的东西制作状态栏。这压力很大。那是个沉重的负担。

Saturday night at 10:00. Ten Saturday night at 10:00. I'm I'm I'm frantically typing things up and clicking around and try to figure everything out and make stat blocks for monsters and stuff. And that is that's a lot of pressure. That's a burden right there.

这让创作过程变得不再有趣。而且我会因为拖延而开始感到筋疲力尽。如果我计划，你知道的，就在下一场游戏结束后立即行动，比如，好的。现在我知道刚刚发生了什么。我可以思考那场游戏中发生了什么，玩家们如何应对，我觉得自己哪里没做好，以及如何补救？

And it makes the create the creative process not fun. And I will start to burn out because I am procrastinating. If I plan, you know, immediately after the next session, be like, okay. Now I know what just happened. I can I can think about what happened in that session, how the players came out of it, what I think I failed doing, and what I can repair?

比如杰西，你提到过，你知道的，你没有在不同冒险之间建立联系。明白吗？在那场游戏之后，你可以想，哦，你知道吗？想想看。我我有这个问题。

Like Jess, for example, you talked about, you know, you didn't have, like, the the connective tissue between the different, adventures. You know? After that session, you could be like, oh, you know what? Think about it. I I had this problem.

我能在下一场游戏中做些什么来修复这个问题？然后开始写下来。别等到周六最后一刻才做，因为当你拖到周六最后一刻时，你只是在拼命想快速搞出些有趣的东西。懂吗？是的。

What can I do in the next session that's going to sort of repair that? And start to write it. And don't do that last minute on Saturday because when you're doing the last minute on Saturday, you're just trying to come up with some fun shit real fast. You know? Yeah.

对。对。完全正确。会让你筋疲力尽的，伙计。

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Burn you out, man.

我见过很多人这样。你说的那种情况，我不想点名或怎样，因为亚伦。

I've seen it happen to a lot of people. You're What talking about, I don't wanna call out any names or anything like that because Aaron.

詹姆斯可以很有趣。

James can be fun.

你可以在游戏开始前五分钟才写游戏内容，结果那成了我们玩过的最棒的游戏，因为那天我们就是有心情玩。懂我意思吗？或者像你说的，你可能过度准备，结果却不尽如人意，留下一种糟糕的感觉。

You could write the the the game right before the the you know, five minutes before the session starts, and it's the best game we ever played because we're just in the mood to play that day. You know what I mean? Or like you said, you could over prepare, and it just doesn't hit, and you're you're left with this rotten feeling.

嗯。我觉得还有一点我想提的是，按照非常严格的时间表玩游戏。当你非常担心，好吧，我必须在两周内准备好，而大家都很忙。我们都老了。

Mhmm. One thing I think that is, another aspect I wanna throw out there is playing on a very rigid schedule. Where when you're very concerned about, okay. I have to be ready in two weeks, and we're all very busy. We've gotten old.

我们我们我们有事情要做。你知道吗？为自己说话。现在大家总是动不动就生病。你懂吗？

We we we have shit to do. You know? Speak for yourself. Everybody's everybody's getting sick all the time these days. You know?

所以，你知道，这很难做到。亚伦，我注意到你在这次活动中做的一件事是，你在准备好时才安排，而不是按我们常规的轮换顺序。而且

So, like, you know, it's very difficult to do that. Aaron, one thing I noticed that you have done with this campaign is you you schedule it when you're ready, not on our regular rotation. And

对。是的。

Right. Yeah.

我更希望我们定期玩，因为我喜欢这样，但我更愿意游戏在准备好时进行，而不是在我们说必须准备好的时候。我对《克苏鲁的呼唤》游戏也采取同样的做法。我还没有安排下一场，因为我会在准备好时再安排

I would rather we play regularly because I like to, but I would much rather the game happen when it's ready than when than when we say you have to be ready. And I'm doing the same thing with the Call of Cthulhu game. I did not schedule our next session yet because I am going to schedule it when I'm ready to

运行。当你准备好的时候。

run. When you're ready.

我觉得有些游戏就像在一艘漏水的船上。你试图修理它。你会想，哦，我做错了这个。我要试着修复它。你懂我的意思吗？

I feel like some games, it's like you're in a leaky ship. You're trying to repair it. You're like, oh, I did this wrong. I'm gonna try to fix that. You know what I mean?

所以，游戏本身就像是你拼命跑来跑去，试图在它崩溃之前修复它。

So, like, the game itself is, like, kinda like you're you're running around desperately trying to fix it before it falls apart.

你懂我的意思吗？那是

You know what mean? That's

一个很好的比喻。我喜欢这个说法。

a great metaphor. I like that.

有时候感觉就是这样。我参加过一些人的游戏，他们在那里回溯修改事情。我以前在自己的游戏中也这样做过。我会想，我要回溯上一部分发生的事情，只是因为这样会让接下来的事情更合理，也让我更轻松。嗯。

It feels like that sometimes. I've been in people's games when they're, like, retconning things. I've done it before in my games. I'm like, I'm gonna retcon something that happened in the last section just because it's gonna make something make more sense going forward and make something easier on me. Mhmm.

我以前就见过这种情况。但当这些事开始累积，比如每场游戏你都在打补丁修改设定时，你会疑惑我们到底在玩什么？懂我意思吗？你逐渐会丧失对剧情连贯性的把控。

And I've seen it happen before. But when those things start adding up, when we're, like, every session you start retconning, you're like, what are we playing anymore? You know what I mean? You you start to, like, lose the idea of the continuity to begin with.

确实。作为新手DM，我从这次对话中收获很多。比如应该提前多准备几章的故事节点——我是指未来八、九场游戏的内容都准备好。这样就不用在每场间隙像补船缝一样临时填补漏洞了。

Yeah. I I could say, like, as a new DM or as an inexperienced DM, like, I have taken a lot away from this this conversation. And that is, like, I should have the story beats prepared well ahead of time. And I'm talking about, like, you know, eight, nine sessions, whatever we're gonna be playing. Have those story beats prepared, and then you're not, you're not puttying over the holes in the ship in between sessions.

没错。这样你就能把时间用来复盘第一个故事节点的效果并进行调整，而不是疯狂赶稿。对，这就是我之前的做法。

Right. You can instead, you can use that time to examine how did that first story beat go and tweak Yeah. Instead of frantically writing. Because, yeah, that's what I've been doing.

就像...对。在推进过程中像捏陶土那样塑造故事，因为雕塑的基本轮廓已经在你眼前了。每周根据玩家动向稍微调整塑造方向，这就是...

Like Yeah. Mold the mold the clay into what it needs to be as you're going because you already have the basic outline of the of the sculpture right in front of you. And every week, you're just molding it a little more and molding it in the direction that the players are taking it. And that's

这样就能获得你渴望的那种优化精炼效果。

And that gives you that optimization refinement that you so desperately are craving.

完全正确。最后我想说：知易行难。祝你好运。

Absolutely. And I'll tell you, I wanna end with this sentiment. Easier said than done. All of this. Good luck.

祝你好运。我们今天讲了很多，但我知道下个游戏日不可能立刻实践所有内容。这些都是需要慢慢消化的东西。

Good luck. Yeah. There's a lot we've said a lot in here, and I know that all of this stuff, like every last thing we've said here is not gonna get implemented in the next session. Right? It's just these are things to think about.

对吧？可以把要点列成清单夹在剧本笔记里。每次准备游戏时看看这些要点...

Right? Like, put them on put them a bull a bullet list of things and put it with your notes. You're right that you're writing your games with. And every time you sit down to write your game, look at the notes. Like, all the bullet points.

这次我要改进哪一条？每次专注提升一个方面就好。

Which of these am I going to work on and make better this time? And make a new one better every single time.

对。没错。是的。

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.