"我为比特币卖掉一切"——他们不想让你知道的真相 | 加里·卡多内

我在我们开始录音前跟你说过，美国政府不知怎么地因为这样一个骗局，就往他们的战略比特币储备里增加了127,000枚比特币，这简直让我难以置信。

I was saying to you before we were recording that the United States government somehow added a $127,000 to their strategic a 127,000 Bitcoin to their strategic Bitcoin reserve because of a scam like that, which just blows my mind.

总比落到别人手里强。

Better us than someone else.

是啊。我不明白为什么一个中国人在柬埔寨诈骗，钱却归我们所有，不过我想这就是当美国的好处吧。

Yeah. I don't understand how a Chinese, like, national scamming people from Cambodia is our money, but I guess it's good to be America.

我们在这儿呢。当美国人真好。

We're here. It's good to be American.

曾经当美国人确实不错。

It was good to be American.

我也这么认为。

I think so.

所以听着，我

So listen, I

虽然问题不少，但我觉得这是目前最好的选择。是的，我们可以去法国。

There's a lot of issues, but I think it's the best option right now. Yeah. We could go to France.

你们可以。

You could.

你们可以。

You could.

你会完美融入的。表现超棒。我在那里也会如鱼得水。可能需要更紧身的裤子，但除此之外我觉得没问题。所以当我想随便聊聊时，我就打给你，这次我们终于可以当面聊了，这确实

You would fit in perfectly. Do awesome. I I would do great there. Need tighter pants, but otherwise, I think I'd be fine. So when I just wanna bounce shit around, I call you, and this time we can actually do it in person, which Yeah, is is much

比Zoom好多了。

better than Zoom.

是啊，好太多了

Yeah, so much better

比Zoom强。老兄，新办公室太棒了。谢谢。

than Zoom. Dude, new digs are awesome. Thank you.

那么，你对这里的市场怎么看？我们就从这里开始吧。我想聊聊国债公司，聊聊市场，聊聊微策略公司，以及我们在私下讨论的所有话题。录制时是周五，大概110点左右吧，我几小时没看了。

Really So what do you think of the market here? Let's just start there. I wanna talk about treasury companies, I wanna talk about the market, talk about micro strategy, all the things we talk about on spaces and kick around behind closed doors. As we're recording, it's Friday, one hundred and ten ish, I think. I haven't really looked in a few hours.

显然，几周前发生了大规模清算事件，但股票正在跳空上涨。黄金在回调后依然表现不错。我是说，这是个全面牛市。

Obviously, had that massive liquidation event a couple of weeks ago, but stocks are gapping up. Gold still, after one retrace, is pretty good. I mean, it's an everything bull market.

是啊，白银也很强势。市场想要硬资产，老兄。真的，除非瞎了才看不出来。

Yeah. Silver's strong. The market wants hard assets, man. I mean, for sure. You'd have to be blind not to see it.

我觉得比特币只是跟随这个趋势。你认为人们已经这么看了吗？不，我觉得他们还没理解这个逻辑。反正零售投资者根本不是推动力，是机构玩家、大家族和主权基金在主导。

And I think Bitcoin's just following it. Do you think that people view it as that yet? No, I don't think they understand that narrative. But the retail player isn't really driving any of this anyway. It's institutional players, huge families, sovereigns.

他们会把钱投向哪里？听着，所有这些资金都需要收益，而现在它们躺在不产生任何回报的资产里。或者投资在看似日薄西山的行业。当你知道零售业正在变革时，你真的想要大量接触零售渠道吗？当你知道制药行业面临司法部调查和各种问题时，你还想涉足吗？

Where are they going to take? Look, all that money needs yield, And it's sitting in assets that aren't generating anything. Or they're in businesses that look like they're dying. You really want a bunch of access to retail when you know retail is changing? Do you want access to the pharmaceutical industry when you know there's all the DOJ exposures and problems?

在我看来，人们只是在寻找安全的地方存放财富，并希望能获得一些增值。

It just seems to me people are looking for safe places to hold their wealth and hopefully get some appreciation.

有意思。当你说人们在寻找安全的财富存放地时，按常理不会想到比特币。挺讽刺的，对吧？这与市场顶部常见的投机狂热正好相反。所以如果你认为人们在寻找安全的资金去处，那感觉我们离顶部还远着呢。

That's interesting. When you say people are looking for safe places to hold their wealth, you don't usually think of Bitcoin as far as the narrative. Funny that, Right? So, that's the opposite of the speculative excess you usually see at market tops. So, if you think people are looking for safe places to put their money, that doesn't feel like we're anywhere near a top.

当人们开始对NFT和迷因币进行YOLO式赌博时，通常就是市场见顶的信号。虽然我猜黄金在航运界也曾被这样对待过。

When people start YOLO gambling on NFTs and meme coins, it's usually kind of a top signal. Although I guess gold was being treated that way around the world of fleet.

但我认为很多市场只要仔细观察，就会发现这类行为比比皆是。那种不成熟的行为。我是说，开车过来

But I think there's a lot of markets that if you look at them, all that behavior is going on. The immature behavior. I mean, driving over

这里

here

开了28分钟车程，我听到一些深陷加密货币的人在高谈阔论。他们都在谈论亏损和遭受的打击。而我在想，我在这个领域五年了，我的财富实现了增值，基本上把比特币当作生意经营。别把它当成储蓄计划。

was a twenty eight minute drive, and I'm listening to some people that are heavy, heavy, heavy into crypto. And they're all talking about the losses and how they've suffered. And I'm sitting here going, I've been in this space five years. I have been able to multiply my wealth, basically look at Bitcoin as a business. Don't look at it as a savings plan.

我的选择是：要么投资100万、200万或10万美元开创新业务，然后经营企业雇佣员工。如果成功的话，未来十年会面临无数麻烦，最后才能退出——如果运气好的话。但看看比特币，我可以用2.7万、3.7万或11万美元买入。而11万美元连Popeyes炸鸡连锁店的十分之一加盟费都不够。

My option is I can go invest a million or 2,000,000 or $100,000 into a new business with an idea and then run that business and hire a bunch of people. And if I'm successful I'm going to have a thousand headaches and I'll exit in ten years. If I'm lucky. And then I look at Bitcoin and I go, I can buy Bitcoin at 27,000, 37,000, 110,000. 110,000 wouldn't buy me a tenth of a Popeyes Fried Chicken franchise.

但却能买一整枚比特币，还不需要保险——保险费用正在疯涨。我刚取消了房屋保险，心想：我才不会为600万美元免赔额每年付10万美元保费。得了吧，太荒谬了。还不如直接放弃保险自担风险。

Yet, can buy a whole bitcoin, have no requirements for insurance, which is escalating. I just cancel my insurance on my house. I'm like, I'm not paying you $100,000 a year for a $6,000,000 deductible. Come on, that's ridiculous. Okay, I might as well just waive the insurance and take my risk.

所以我认为很多行业价格已经高到市场即将崩溃的程度。人们会开始减少消费。我觉得地球上的超级富豪和极端贫困群体都已达到消费极限——这是我们共同的特点。无论超级贫穷还是超级富有，我们的消费能力都已触顶。

So, I think there's a lot of industries that are getting so pricey that it's a part of the market that's just going to break. That people are going to stop consuming so much stuff. I think we have met max consumption on this planet at the super wealthy and the very poor. That is the thing that we all share in common. The super poor and the super rich, we have maxed out consumption.

不是总有另一艘游艇吗？不。一直都是这样吗？

Isn't there always another yacht? No. Throughout?

不，去和他们谈谈。当我们看到更多二手私人飞机待售、新飞机供应增加以及燃油价格和包机服务情况时，这就是一个重要信号。我关注三点：有多少经纪人打电话向我推销飞机？和出租车司机聊聊。

No, like go talk to them. And the moment we see more jet, second term jets available for sale, new jets available for jet fuel prices, and the charters available, this is a huge indicator. I look at three things. How many brokers are calling me to sell me a plane? Talk to cab drivers.

嘿，你在拉斯维加斯收到小费了吗？去赌场看看。这是全球任何经济体的最佳晴雨表。当前经济形势很诡异，已经崩坏了。

Hey, are you getting tips in Vegas? And go to a casino. And that's the best indicator of any economy in the world. This economy is weird right now. It's broken.

底层经济已经崩溃。我认为高端市场也垮了，因为富人不可能再买更多劳力士手表、别墅、岛屿或游艇了。这些都伴随着管理难题。我把比特币视为实业而非单纯投资工具。

It's broken at the poor end. And I think it's broken at the high end because I don't think the high end can buy any more Rolex watches, villas, countries, yachts. These all come with headaches. And they all come with people to manage. I have backed that Bitcoin as a business, not just an investment vehicle.

我分析后发现，哇，能获得30%收益。就算打个对折，每年也有15%的复合增长率。没有人力资源部门，无需法律文件。

I look at it and go, wow, I get a 30%. Let's cut that in half. I get a 15% CAGR a year. I have no HR department. I have no legal documents.

没有K-1税务表格，完全不需要与人打交道，生平第一次实现零人为失误风险。我只需执行这个绝妙创意——我自己就是最大风险。

I have no K-1s. I have no people whatsoever. I have zero human error risk for the first time in my life and a great idea. And all I have to do is execute. I am the risk.

我只需持续执行四年定投策略。历史上从未有人买在比特币顶峰，持有四年后还亏钱的。这是绝佳交易模式。相比之下，买个Popeyes炸鸡加盟店要花200万美元。

I just have to execute, keep adding to a four year stack. And no human being on the planet has ever bought the top of Bitcoin, held it for four years, and lost any money whatsoever. That is a great trade. That is a great business to do. It'll cost you $2,000,000 to buy a Popeyes Fried Chicken franchise.

他们现在具体是多少钱？

Exactly how much they are now?

100万到200万，但之后你得经营它。你还得应付那些流着鼻涕、油腻腻的脏小孩来你店里。要应付那些只会抱怨的顾客。中学橄榄球赛时他们在Popeyes打架，你还得收拾所有被打碎的玻璃。这种事会一遍又一遍地发生。

1 to 2,000,000, but then you have to run it. And you have to deal with the snotty nosed, greasy, dirty kids that are coming in your store. You've got to deal with the consumers who are only going to bitch. You've got to handle all the glass when it gets broken through the junior high school football game that they had a fight at the Popeyes. And over and over and over.

不管你有没有利润，都得付Popeyes高额费用。而且这合约一签就是十到十五年。我认识一个拥有42家赛百味的人就垮了，彻底垮了。

And you've got to pay Popeyes the juice whether you made any margin or not. And you're in the deal for ten or fifteen years. I know a guy that owns 42 subways got crushed. Just absolutely got crushed. Okay.

42家赛百味连一块钱都赚不到。我觉得很多这类生意将来都会消失。我们正迈向高速星球时代。你总不能说'哥们，这里有两公斤白银，咱们交易吧'。

42 subways could not make a dollar. I think a lot of those businesses are going to no longer exist in the future. We're moving to a high speed planet. And you can't, Here's two kilos of silver, man. Let's do a transaction.

这不是我们将要面对的世界。我们要的是超高速。我开车28分钟过来这里，其实我们本可以线上完成这事。

That's not the world we're going to. We're going to super speed. I came out here and drove twenty eight minutes. We could have done this digitally.

当然。

Of course.

对吧？现在我们想见面喝杯咖啡什么的，但如今我们拥有的选择是十年前没有的。我是说天差地别的选择。比如我现在一周能读三本书，以前从没一周读过三本。

Right? Now, we wanted to see each other, have a coffee, whatever, but we have options today we did not have ten years ago. I mean, tremendously different options. Like, I'm reading three books a day, three books a week. I've never read three books a week.

如果必须用实体书来完成，我可能连三本书都读不完

If I had to do it with a physical book, I probably couldn't do the three books

一周。你是在用音频双倍速听吗？我是说，我就是这样

a week. Are you 2X ing it on audio? I mean, that's what I

各种形式都有。视觉、音频、YouTube、听你说话。人们可以对这个领域嗤之以鼻，但只要你能够过滤掉那些废话、炒作和可能带有不良动机的鼓动，这里其实蕴藏着巨大的智慧。这和我参加过的所有会议没什么两样。

Just in every form. Visual, audio, YouTube, listening to you. People can poo poo all they want on this space. There is tremendous amount of intelligence in there if you can scatter through all the bullshit, in the pumps and the motivations that may have some kind of nefarious motivation. But that's true about every meeting I've ever had.

这是我第一次听你把比特币当作生意来谈论。我不记得之前讨论过这种类比。

That's the first time I've heard you talk about Bitcoin as a business. I don't think I've ever talked about that comparison.

其实我这辈子就是独自创业，全程自筹资金。然后环顾四周时突然意识到：哇，我把身家性命都押给约翰了，结果约翰找到了更好的工作。现在我的业务拓展负责人没了。或者合伙人决定：公司能卖五亿美元，但她却说'我不想卖'。什么情况？

Well, is all I've ever done is build businesses by myself, fund the whole thing. And then I'm looking around going, Wow, I'm risking my thing to John, and John got a better job. Now, I don't have John as my business development guy. Or my partner decides I can sell the business for half a billion dollars, and she decides, Well, I don't want to sell it. What?

老兄，我们刚赚了五亿啊。是啊，但我还不想退出。我还没玩够呢。那要不你花两亿五买下我的股份？不，我不想这样。好吧，那我现在流动性出问题了。

We just made half a billion dollars, dude. Yeah, but I don't want to get out yet. I'm not done. Well, then buy mine for $250 No, I don't want to do that. Well, I have a liquidity problem now.

看吧，创业者从来不会谈论他们在创业和退出过程中遭遇的失败。没人会讨论退出环节，懂吗？而退出阶段往往是最煎熬的。这才是真相。无论是退出比特币、Solana还是任何加密货币投资，从来没人真正讨论过如何退出。

See, no entrepreneurs ever talk about the failures they had in building businesses and exiting. No one ever talks about the exit, Okay? And you get chewed up in the exit. That's the truth. And that's true of exiting a Bitcoin or a Solana or any no one ever talks about investing in crypto and then exiting.

你可以围绕它做一整期周播节目。

You can make a whole weekly show on it.

是啊。好吧。卖出比买入难多了。

Yeah. Okay. Selling is a lot harder than buying.

这是关于规划和退出。哦，卖出、脱手、从任何事物中抽身，都比进入要困难得多得多。

It is planning and exiting. Oh, selling and getting out and walking out the door of anything is much, much, much more difficult than getting in.

用比特币作商业类比，你刚才隐约提到的，如果要把它当作生意，就必须要有利润。对吧？对吧？没错，你得有个卖家

With the Bitcoin as a business analogy, you kind of alluded to though, there has to be, if you're going to treat it as a business, there's got to be some profit. Does it? Does it? Yeah, you got a seller

或者亚马逊作为世界上最伟大的公司之一，也曾长期没有盈利

or Amazon is of greatest companies in the world and didn't have profit

这是针对个人而言的。比如你说，嘿，我的生意就是买比特币。但人总得生活。

for credit. That'd for you individually. Like if you say, hey, my business is buying Bitcoin. Still got to live a life.

老兄，这话题太棒了，真是绝妙的讨论。你给我找个明天就能产生正向收入的企业看看。我从来没建过这种企业。但如果要投机——好吧，让我猜正反面。哇哦，利润来了。

Dude, that's a great that is a great, great conversation. Show me a business that you build that tomorrow generates positive income. I've never built one of those. Now, if I'm speculating, Okay, let me pick heads or tails. Oh, wow, profit.

那个可持续业务？为了能来到这里，我通常得先经营一门生意，首先得给我的车加油。然后我才来到这里。所以我已投入了20美元，斯科特，我不打算收回投资回报。我需要22美元。这种看待事物的方式很糟糕，对吧？

That sustainable business? I have to build a business usually in order for me to get over here, I had to put fuel in my car first. And then I came over here. So I've made an investment of $20 I'm not going to get my return on investment, Scott. I need $22 That's a horrible way to look at things, right?

我的生意就是我的品牌。我，加里·卡多内。因此，对我来说，花22美元与你建立关系很有意义，希望能提升我的品牌形象，学到些东西。这些都是对业务的投资。所以对我来说，投入10万美元到比特币并说‘好吧，我就什么都不做’也是投资。

My business is my brand. Me, Gary Cardone. So it makes a lot of sense for me to spend $22 develop a relationship with you, hopefully increase my brand a little bit, learn something. These are all investments for the business. And so for me to invest $100,000 into Bitcoin and say, Okay, I'm just going to do nothing.

我打算这么做。你会说‘是的，但你需要些收入’。不，我不需要任何收入。我不想要任何收入。我建立的业务不会立即产生正向收入。

I'm going to do this. You're going to say, Yeah, but you need some income. No, I don't need any income. I don't want any income. I don't get income from my businesses that I build immediately, positive income.

通常我得不断开支票。而比特币，我只需按兵不动。好吧，我不想要收入，因为你知道我会怎么处理收入吗？我会花掉它。而花钱并不能帮我获得更多比特币。

I usually have to keep writing checks. With Bitcoin, all I have to do is sit on my hands. Okay, I don't want the income because you know what I'm going do with the income? I'm going to spend it. And spending it isn't going to help me get more Bitcoin.

这就是为什么我认为比特币这种不可动摇的投资很吸引我，因为我只对此感兴趣。建立一个企业并退出需要八到十二年时间，而比特币四年就能退出并获得45%的回报，还毫无后顾之忧。我可以选择在亚洲、巴哈马或佛罗里达州的蒂拉维德经营这项业务。

So that's why I think I love the non yielding Bitcoin play because I'm only interested in this. It will take me eight to twelve years to build a business and exit it. Four years I can exit Bitcoin and make a 45% return. I cannot do with zero headaches by the way. I get to decide to run this business from Asia or The Bahamas or Tirra Verde, Florida.

我可以随时过来见你。如果有人邀请我去打鸟，我也能说走就走。我实在找不到比这更好的生意了——我追求的是卓越的事业，而不是满足虚荣的奖杯。

I get to come over and see you anytime I want. Somebody wants to take me bird shooting, I get to go do that too. And I just don't know better business. I'm looking for a great business. I'm not looking for an ego trophy.

听着，我曾管理过一万两千人的团队。但人数超过150人后，实际上就管不过来了。如果是像你我这样的人，超过15个就力不从心了。

Well, look, I managed 12,000 people. Once you get past 150 people, you can't manage them anyway. And if you're like you and me, once you get past 15, you can't manage them.

1.5。

1.5.

我也是这样。没错。所以，如果你从逻辑上仔细想想，把它当作生意来看确实有道理，因为没有企业会支付收入。大多数创业者，你的工资是多少？零。

That's about me too. Yeah. So, that's like and if you really think about it logically, it does make sense to just look at it as business because no business pays income. Most entrepreneurs, when they how much do you get paid in your salary? Nothing.

一分没有，老兄。你啥也拿不到。大多数创始人都零收入。我这辈子从没领过工资。除了在那家骗子公司短暂领过一阵子，迈克。

Nothing, dude. You get nothing. Most founders get zero. I have never made a salary ever. I made a salary at the fraud company for a little while, Mike.

我不想要工资，伙计。如果我们有正向收入，公司会报销我所有的私人飞机出行。当公司盈利时，他们会承担我的私人飞行费用。我喜欢这样，因为这对公司有利。他们可以从利润中扣除这部分开销。

I don't want a salary, dude. If we make positive income, the company's paying for all my private jet travel. When we make positive income, company pays for all my private jet travel. I like that because it's great for the company. They get to net it off profits.

当公司规模足够大、实现营收正增长时，我就能坐私人飞机了。但这他妈的工作量实在太大了。过去四年我要是每月定投比特币，按均价算大概能投五十

I get to fly private when I'm big enough to float the company, when it gets revenue positive. But, it's an awful fucking lot of work. When I could buy Bitcoin over the last four years for probably average, if I just did it monthly fifty

七五十，60。

seven Fifty, 60.

我现在已经赚了100%，可以用它抵押贷款了？

I'm up 100%, and now I can borrow against?

这正是我接下来要问的问题。

That was my next question.

砰！我积累了足够多的资产，现在可以去找人们炫耀：嘿，看看我的财富。我把这些带到了我那根本不涉及比特币业务的银行——结果把他们震得目瞪口呆。现在他们可喜欢我了。

Boom. I get a big enough stack, I can now go to the people and go, Hey, look at my stack. I've taken my stack to my bank who does not do anything in Bitcoin. It fucking impressed the shit out of them. They love me now.

现在没去摩根大通。今天他们刚宣布，目前还不可用。但到年底前，你将能用比特币和以太坊作为抵押品了。是的。

Didn't go to JPMorgan now. As of today, they made the announcement. It's not not available. By the by the end of the year, you'll be able to use Bitcoin and Ethereum as collateral. Yeah.

这有多疯狂？

How nuts is that?

太棒了。

It's great.

我是说，杰德，倒不是这件事本身令人惊讶，而是摩根大通。我记得小摩根今早还发表了评论，虽然我没看到原话。

Well I mean, Jed, not not that it's happening, but JPMorgan. J. P. Morgan even, I think, made a comment this morning. I didn't see the exact quote.

只是听人们在讨论。你知道我对这行业仍持保留态度，但说到底他是个商人，懂得民众需求。不过我得说，杰米·戴蒙是我们最直言不讳的批评者之一。

Just heard people talking about it. You know, I'm still cool on the industry, but I mean, he's a businessman and knows what the people want. But I would say that J. P. Dimon is one of our most outspoken critics.

摩根大通正在行动。城堡基金的肯·格里芬说这是比特币的贬值交易。现在先锋集团也可能加入。如果花旗银行、纽约梅隆银行、道富银行都在托管这些资产，他们就应该像对待客户投资组合中的其他资产一样对待它，对吧？

JPMorgan's doing it. Ken Griffin from Citadel, I mean, is just saying that this is Bitcoin for the debasement trade. Vanguard now Vanguard potentially coming. So if you've got Citibank is gonna be cussing the assets, Bank of New York, Mellon, State Street, so they should be treating it like any other asset in someone's portfolio. Right?

所以我们不应该支付比特币借贷年化9.1%、12%的利率。目前可能是这样，但当市场充分竞争后，尽管比特币波动大，但比他们现在接受抵押贷款的证券波动还小。比如Meta股票一天能跌20%，这算什么——

So we shouldn't be paying the $9.10, 12% interest rates on Bitcoin borrowing in a year. It might be that now, but once everybody's there and it's a competitive market again, don't even though it's volatile, a, it's less volatile than the securities they'll give you loans against at this point. Right. Like Meta stock can have a 20% day. What are

人们还在讨论比特币的波动性？我都想问你们在说什么？

we People talking about Bitcoin volatility. I'm like, what are you talking about?

现在已经不是这样了，对吧？我是说——

Not anymore, right? Mean, the

让我们看看联合健康集团的例子。

big Let's go look at UnitedHealthcare.

如果世界上最大的资产黄金都能一天暴跌78%，那我们还有什么好说的？未来利率降到5%、6%、7%，甚至4%、3%时，比特币就成正经生意了——毕竟我都能用它付房租了。

If the largest asset in the world, gold, can drop 78% in a day, then what So are we even talking you should have 5%, 67% rates, 4%, 3% as rates come down in the future. Me, then you're like, Bitcoin's a business because I can pay my rent with

没错。这就是正在发生的转变。18个月前你还无法用比特币抵押借款，黑市除外。但去年有几个家伙跳出来说'如果我们托管'——我不想提名字，他们让我火大——'你的比特币'...我当时就想：你自称比特币信徒，却要收我15%费用来保管地球上最优质的抵押品？

Yeah. Well, this is what's happening, right? Eighteen months ago, you could not borrow against Bitcoin. You could in the black market, but a year ago, a couple of guys came out and said, if we custody I'm not going to name them because they piss me off. But if we custody your Bitcoin well, I thought, look, you can't be a Bitcoiner and then tell me you're going to charge me 15% to hold the best collateral on planet earth.

这真的让我很恼火。就像，老兄，拜托，这是地球上最优质的抵押品了。仅次于格洛克17手枪在你需要的时候。我是说真的。而且它就在你身边，对吧？

It just irritated me. It's like, dude, come on, This is the best collateral on planet earth. Second to a Glock 17 when you need it. I mean, seriously. And it's right near you, right?

我当时就想，我绝不可能支付15%的利息。10%我也不会付。如果能低于8%，我会考虑。而现在我从几家大型机构拿到了低于8%的利率。从熟人那里甚至能拿到5%。

And I'm like, there is no chance of me ever paying 15%. And I won't pay 10. If I can get below eight, I will do it. And I'm below eight from major, major institutions. I could get five from people that we know.

是啊。

Yeah.

对我来说转移这些资产确实是个大工程。但你知道，当数字变得相当可观时...我是说，戴夫，我的持仓已经增加了30%。

It's just a big heavy lift for me to move it. But you know, you start getting fairly large numbers. I mean, I've added 30% to my stack, Dave.

所以，你在用贷款购买更多比特币。

So, you're using your loans to buy more Bitcoin.

当然。我又不是要去拉斯维加斯。你问，嘿，想去拉斯维加斯吗？我觉得我真没必要再参加什么飞行贸易展会了，

Of course. Well, I'm not flying to Las Vegas. You ask, hey, you want to go to Las Vegas? I don't think I really need to go to another Fly trade show,

精神可嘉啊老兄。得了吧，本来200美元就能搞定的事。如果你不按你的方式来，拉斯维加斯其实很便宜的。

Spirit, man. Come on, could have done it for $200. Vegas is cheap if you don't do it your way.

你为什么不带上约翰一起去？我来支付约翰的票钱，你们可以全程录像，我会看的。

Why don't you take John with you? I'll pay for John's ticket and y'all can videotape the whole thing and I'll watch.

就说这是有可能的。

Just say it's possible.

你知道，我并没有在比特币闪存上做所有这些工作。

You know, I didn't do all this work on Bitcoin flash.

是啊，有趣的是比特币持有者身价上亿却开着85年的雅阁，因为他们，嗯，一分钱都不想花。

Yeah, it's funny that the Bitcoiners have a billion dollars and drive like an 85 accord because they Well, don't want to spend a penny of

我没开雅阁，但如果把这当作生意来看，过去两个月我大概收到了五次演讲邀请。不，不，都一样。不是因为我不想去。但如果现在我把比特币视为核心业务，我可以干这行十五到二十年，因为我不必把自己累垮去参加对你们这些在大公司工作的人来说完全无用的会议。

I'm not driving an accord, but if I think about this as a business, I mean, I've probably been invited to five things to speak at in the last two months. No, no, no. Same. Not a And it's not because I don't want to go. But if I'm looking at Bitcoin now as a core business of mine, like I can do this now for fifteen, twenty years because I don't have to grind myself into the ground going to meetings that are absolutely useless to all you guys that work at big companies.

一旦你走进超过六个人的房间，你们讨论的就只是些常识性的东西。

Like once you walk into a room with more than six people, you're just talking about stuff that's general knowledge.

你把灵魂留在了门外，因为

You leave your soul at the door because

老兄，你都快不行了

Dude, you're dying in

而且

and

你一言不发。你想死。有天我突然意识到，哇，所有重要决定都是由一两个人做出的。而当你想宣布圣诞派对时，却邀请了所有人。这完全是浪费时间。

you don't say anything. You want to die. It dawned on me one day, I'm like, wow, all the important decisions get made between one or two people. And when you want to announce when the Christmas party is, you invite everybody. And it's a complete waste of time.

所以我看着这个就想，我是该花100美元去拉斯维加斯玩三天，还是再买点比特币？人们会说100美元在维加斯能干嘛？毕竟就三天嘛。虽说100美元确实不多，但这样我能去三次。迟早这些开销会像我今天开车来见你一样，都变成参加各种会议的支出。

So I look at this and go, well, do I want to spend $100 going to Vegas for three days or could I buy another bit one? And people go, dollars $100 in Vegas? Well, it's just three days. I mean, just look, can say it's not $100, but then I'll do three trips. And then sooner or later, these are expenses I am paying to go to meetings just like I drove over here to you.

我总需要些投资回报。但这根本不会有回报。人们只会说'嘿要投资我的基金吗兄弟？'，'好啊老铁，要是能比比特币赚得还狠，我就跟你干'。

I need a return on investment at some point. And it's not going to give me a return. All people are going do is, hey, you want to invest in my fund, man? Yeah, dude. If it can outdo Bitcoin like a motherfucker, I'll help.

我可以投你的基金。但现在我能直接买11万美元的比特币，干嘛要去搞什么二八分成的基金？

I'll do your fund. But right now, I have the ability to buy $110,000 Bitcoin. Why would I do a fund with two and twenty?

会被套牢好几年。问题在于对我来说这就是套牢。大多数人根本撑不了那么久

Be locked up for years. Problem is To me, it's a lockup. A Most long enough people don't

兄弟，这些交易的锁定期可是10年以上啊，10年以上。

know the lockup's 10 plus on these trades, man. 10 plus.

我甚至不知道自己会在哪里。

Don't even know where I'll be in.

格兰特的房地产项目是10加10年锁定期，完全由他决定。我不知道那些自营交易台和所有基金的情况。听着，有些基金确实很棒。但如果我可以不被锁定，为什么要接受呢？

Grant's 10 plus 10 on the real estate. 10 plus 10 at his discretion. And I don't know what the ego desk and all the funds are. And look, some of those funds are awesome. But if I don't have to get locked up, why would I?

如果我不必支付2%的管理费和20%的业绩提成，为什么要付？如果这比经营一家Popeyes炸鸡店或Dick's Sporting体育用品店的回报更好，而且肯定比我买英特尔股票更安全。顺便说一句，

And if I don't have to pay 2 and 20, why would I? And if this is a better return than running a Popeyes franchise or a Dick's Sporting store, and most certainly, it's safer than me buying Intel. By the way, the

如果市场彻底崩盘，比如整个经济崩溃，即使比特币下跌，你的Popeyes炸鸡店也彻底

market if the market completely collapses, like, the economy generally, even if Bitcoin goes down, your Popeyes is totally

天啊。至少

Oh, my God. At least

你还能选择持有比特币等待复苏。但Popeyes店就完了。实际上，持有下跌的比特币在经济下行时面临的风险，比经营一家依赖人们经济实力的企业要小得多。

you saw the ability to solve your Bitcoin and can wait it out. That Popeyes is done. You actually have less exposure to downside in the economy by holding Bitcoin that goes down than you do by having a business that depends on people having money in the economy.

没错，老兄。如果我们现在要用这个双D词汇听着，我以前从没听过这个词。美元贬值现在被广泛使用。这已成为金融界的术语，前所未有。经济衰退你可以讨论，伙计。

Correct, man. And if we're now going to use this double D word look, I've never heard this word before. Dollar debasement is being used now. It is becoming nomenclature in the finance this has not been done before. Recessions you could talk about, dude.

你从没提过美元通缩。那几乎是种禁忌。而现在这个词正被全球最大的玩家使用。你刚提到他们。你真该好好听听。

You never talked about dollar deflation. It was almost heresy. And this word is being used by the largest players on the planet. You just mentioned them. You should be listening to that.

我是说，这是个严肃的信号。在这种情况下，比特币是个重磅筹码。美元72。

I mean, is a serious message. In this case, Bitcoin's a monster play. Dollars 72.

那就是

That's the

唯一资产。

only asset.

黄金和比特币——每个提到贬值交易的人都说，嘿，有这个贬值交易，但你具体该怎么做？其他资产都被打乱了。有人说白银。保罗·都铎·琼斯提到纳斯达克，我觉得很有意思。他是唯一把股票纳入贬值交易的人，但确实有道理。

Gold and Bitcoin were everyone who named all say, hey, there's this debasement trade, but what should you actually do for it? Every other asset was shuffled around. Silver, some said. NASDAQ, Paul Tudor Jones said, which I thought was interesting. He's the only one who included stocks in the debasement trade, but it does make sense, actually.

除此之外，所有人都说比特币和黄金。我不会这么做，但我理解他提出这个观点时的立场

But otherwise, everybody said Bitcoin and gold. I wouldn't do it, but I see where he's coming from his when he made the

理论上说，如果模拟信号完蛋了

theory is if analog goes to shit

如果他刚才说的是富人就像这样——如果你押注贫富分化，富人总能找到新的会升值的东西作为对冲，纳斯达克可能也是其中一部分。但我显然更愿意直接买比特币。有趣的是，当你把比特币当作生意来谈时，像你这样的商人中，真正理解的少数人会豁然开朗。我们说的是里卡多·萨利纳斯。

if he just said that rich is like, this is if you're betting on a divide of the rich and the poor, the rich just find new shit to buy that's gonna go up and be a hedge, and maybe the Nasdaq is a part of that. I'd rather just buy Bitcoin, obviously. It's funny. You talk about Bitcoin as a business, and all these businessmen like yourself, the few who get it really get it, and you see the light bulb come on with a lot of people. Were talking about Ricardo Salinas.

我记得你很快要去萨尔瓦多对吧？这家伙是个亿万富翁，墨西哥顶级富豪之一，经营着各种生意。你聊过当他谈论比特币时的情形。

I think you're going to El Salvador soon, and this guy's a billionaire, like the one of the richest men in Mexico and has run all these businesses. And you talked about what happens when he talks about Bitcoin.

是啊，这很迷人。记不清是你还是谁采访过他。我特别擅长观察人，这是我的天赋。

Yeah. I mean, it's fascinating. I can't remember if it was you or someone else that was interviewing him. The guy just like, I observe people pretty well. It's a gift of mine.

当我看到这个70岁的亿万富翁谈起生意时异常兴奋——他手上有这么多大生意，但说到那个小小的比特币项目...他所有大生意都很棒，但当他开始谈论流动资产时，那个画面

And when I see a 70 year old billionaire get extremely excited when he was talking about his business, right? And he's got all these businesses here. And then he's got this small little Bitcoin thing. And all his big businesses are awesome. But when he started talking about his liquid position, the image

我

I

就像13、14岁小男孩第一次找到宠物时的样子

had was a 14 year old, a 13 year old little boy finding his first pet

房子。第一个花花公子，老兄，没错。

house. First playboy, man, yeah.

第一个花花公子，伙计。这家伙当时说，不，不。他特别兴奋。我就想，哦，这可是个重大信号。这是个对想法坠入爱河的男人。

First playboy, dude. This guy was like, no, no. He was so excited. I'm like, oh, that's a monster indicator. That's a man who's falling in love with an idea.

当你是个创业者，看到一个想法并爱上它时，你几乎会把整个人生都奉献给它。真的，这几乎像一场婚姻。创业者会真正理解，你会为事业付出一切，而其中充满各种运营风险。但臣服于比特币太容易了，简直轻而易举。

And when you're an entrepreneur and you see an idea and you fall in love with it, you surrender almost your entire life to it. Really, it's almost like a marriage. And an entrepreneur will really understand that you surrender everything to a business and it's got all these operating risks in it. Surrendering to Bitcoin is so easy. It's just so easy.

说实话，如果我不把比特币视为一门生意来阐述其价值，那简直是在欺骗大家。每个人都想拥有自己的生意，都想成为自己企业的CEO。这很简单：做好本职工作，

I mean, I would actually be lying to anyone if I didn't really express the value of looking at Bitcoin as a business. And everyone wants to own their own business. Everybody wants to be the CEO of their own business. And it's easy. Do your day job.

开始囤积比特币。如果这对迈克尔·塞勒来说足够好，那就是他的事业。他不需要雇佣成千上万人来增持比特币。他将成为全球人均盈利最高的企业之一——再囤10万枚比特币也只需增加三名员工。

Start stacking Bitcoin. If it's good enough for Michael Saylor, that's a business for him. He's not having to add thousands of people to add Bitcoin. He will be one of the most profitable per employee businesses in the world. He could stack another 100,000 Bitcoin and add three staff members.

是啊。

Yep.

这真是个绝妙的商业模式。

I mean, that is a beautiful business model.

是的。我今天早上和他聊了聊，为拉斯维加斯的会议做准备，他现在主要关注数字信贷方面。他推出的这些分层产品组合，你可以获得16%的实际收益率，根据不同风险等级和波动性为每个人定制。我在想摩根大通今天的公告会如何影响像他这样的策略师。

Yeah. I talked to him this morning in prep for the Vegas the Vegas conversation, and his narrative right now is heavily on the digital credit side. All these this layered products that he's been able to offer the offerings. You can get, you know, 16% effective yield here at 12, different risk, different volatility for every single person. I wonder how a JPMorgan announcement like today ends up affecting someone like a strategy.

就像，他创造了所有这些产品，但现在我们真正讨论的是如何让比特币直接发挥作用，或者让人们能直接用比特币进行投资。这有点像一种新的

Like, he's created all these products, but now we're really talking about being able to put the Bitcoin directly to work or people being able to put their Bitcoin directly to work. Kind of This a new

这就是为什么我认为我们被低估了，因为这真的、真的、真的意味着什么？我们有一个

is why I think we're underpriced because it's really, really, really what? We have a

破损的通风口，没人能从内部或外部进去查明原因。当风向不对时，我们就会听到鼓手男孩的动静。所以我很好奇想听听这个。太棒了。不。

broken vent and nobody can get into the vent to figure it out from the inside or the outside. When the wind blows the wrong way, we get the drummer boy. So I'm curious to hear that. It's great. No.

时机完美。没想到这点。回到水手话题。对。你可以保留这部分。

Perfect timing. Didn't think about that. Back to sailor. Yeah. You can keep that in.

所以，购买比特币一直非常困难。现在依然很难买到比特币。而且关于比特币的一些说法也很难理解，因为它们太混乱了。这是比特币中没人愿意面对的部分——去中心化带来了许多问题，顺便说一句，这些问题对市场都不是积极因素。

So, it's been really hard to buy Bitcoin. It's still hard to buy Bitcoin. And it's hard to listen to some of the stuff about Bitcoin because it's so confusing. This is a part of Bitcoin that no one ever confronts is that decentralization with decentralization comes a lot of issues that aren't good, by the way. They are not positive attributes to a market.

几年前在迈阿密，有天我和马克·尤斯科在一起。我们晚餐时干掉了一瓶龙舌兰酒。他当时说'去中心化'，我说因为我知道他是

I was with Mark Yusko one day in Miami three or four years ago. We were pounding on a bottle of tequila pretty well having dinner. And he was like, decentralization. And I said because I know he's

一家好咖啡馆，他会得到，他会出发。

a good cafe And he'll get And he'll get going.

哦，是的。我说，马克，老实说。你和我都是虔诚的天主教徒。我不知道这是否属实，如果我们相信位于我们教堂核心的上帝是诚实、高尚且值得信赖的，那就承认集中化是完美的吧。我们对此不会有异议。

Oh, yeah. And I said, Mark, let's be honest. You and I are good Catholic boys. I don't know if that's true, and if we believe that our God at the very central of our church is honest and honorable and trustworthy, let's admit that centralization is perfect. We would not have an issue with that.

他回应道，嗯，这点你说对了。问题在于人性本身对集中化的影响。但事实是，我为何来到这里？这里是个中心位置。如果我们今天被炸，我俩都会死。

And he's like, well, you're right about that. It's the human nature of this that's the problem on the centralization. But the truth is, why did I come here? This is a central location. If we get bombed today, we're both going to die.

哦，冒险，太冒险了。对吧？但价值更大。与在Zoom上相比，这是与另一个人截然不同的联系。所以对我来说，比特币的问题在于，我曾对华尔街的加入感到兴奋，因为我们将获得统一的信息。

Oh, risky, risky. Right? Yeah, but it's more valuable. It's a very different connection to have with another human being than on Zoom. So, to me, the problem with Bitcoin, I was so excited about Wall Street coming in because we will get a common message.

我们将收到摩根大通用简笔画制作的小视频

We're going to get little videos from JP Morgan with stick figures

并向你展示贝莱德已经完成的部分

and show you how do BlackRock's already done

没错。因为你从未有过关于比特币的统一信息。有人主张无政府状态，有人追求自由。

it. Exactly. Because you've never had a common message about Bitcoin. One's been anarchy. One's been freedom.

有人说比特币是完美货币。它根本不是完美货币。这种关于比特币在不完美世界中是完美货币的评论，是我听过最愚蠢的话。太夸张了，简直荒谬。

One's been perfect money. It is not perfect money. This comment about Bitcoin being perfect money in an imperfect world is just the dumbest thing I've ever heard. It's hyperbolic. It's ridiculous.

因为没人愿意花它。

Because nobody wants to spend it.

这也会让人反感。所以当这个产品准备出售时，甚至没人会知道自己持有比特币。我多次听你说过，当你获得比特币时，你甚至不知道自己得到了它。完全正确。你本就不该到处带着比特币的标志。

It puts people off too, So, these this product is getting ready to get sold. No one's going to even know they have Bitcoin. I've heard you say this so many do, when you got Bitcoin, you didn't even know you got it. That's exactly right. You should not have to carry the Bitcoin logo all over the place.

谁在乎呢？如果它正从每个缝隙渗透进整个金融有机体的各个层面，我们怎么称呼它又有什么关系？你只需要让它融入这个系统。

Who cares? If it's invading the entire financial organism at every level from every crack and crevice, who gives a toss what we call it? You just need to get impregnated in the system.

我一直觉得很好笑，当人们对埃隆·马斯克或马克·扎克伯格之类的人表现得如此愤怒。我永远不会投资他们的公司，永远不会买元宇宙股票，也永远不会买特斯拉。然后你问那个人：'那你的401k养老金投在哪里呢？'

I always found it so funny when people are so, like, emotionally angry at an Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg or something like that. I would never invest in their company. I would never, you know, buy Met. I would never buy Tesla. And then you say to that person, oh, what's your four zero one k in?

对方会说'不知道，标普指数基金吧'。但事实上，你持有大量特斯拉和元宇宙股票。顺便说，微策略公司和Coinbase都在纳斯达克和标普指数里。如果你做指数投资，这些垃圾资产你全都有。反过来看，有人说'贝莱德持有微策略15%股份'也很愚蠢——他们只是被动指数化投资，并没有主动持仓。他们连矿企都持有。

I don't know. SPY? Well, the way, you own a shit ton of Tesla, a lot of meta, and by the way, MicroStrategy is in MicroStrategy and Coinbase are in the NASDAQ and the S and P, and if you're indexing, you own all that shit. And it's the flip side of that is the stupidity of people saying BlackRock owns 15% of MicroStrategy or things like that when you know that they're just passively indexing and they're not taking any active position. They own the miners.

当然会持有，因为他们把所有成分股都塞进了指数基金。最终每个人都会持有所有资产，实际上大家可能已经接触到了这些他们声称讨厌的东西。

Of course they do because they own literally everything that they're putting into indexes. But everybody is going to own everything, and everybody already probably has exposure to this and all the other things they hate.

我不知道是否每个人都这样。

I don't know that everybody does.

哦，抱歉。但我指的是投资大众，不管那具体指谁。是的，那5%有足够资金购买资产的人。

Oh, excuse me. But I The investing public, whoever that means. Yeah, The 5% of people have enough money to buy something.

是啊，不管具体是什么。但我们的采用率仍然远远、远远、远远不足。我是说，我认为人们高估了我们的普及程度。

Yeah. Whatever it is. But we're still way, way, way under adopted. Yeah. I mean, I think people overestimate our adoption.

但就我个人而言，我认为我们连2%都不到。绝对不可能。

But personally, don't think we're up over 2%. Not a chance.

2%是指使用率，还是仅仅接触过这类资产？

2% adoption as far as usage or just have any exposure to the asset?

指任何形式的接触。以总金额直接计算的话，

Have any exposure. In total dollar Direct, terms,

我是说，

I mean,

这个数字目前还不算大。我是说，正因如此才令人兴奋，我看着它就想，哇，我们入场真早。要知道，谷歌花了三十年才成为万亿美元企业，应该是二十七年吧。谷歌。

it's just not a big number yet. I mean, that's why it should be exciting because I look at it and go, Wow, we're early, man. You know, Google took thirty years to become a trillion dollar business. Twenty seven years, I think. Google.

明白吗？它们本质上就是一个国家，美国中情局的运作，我是说花了三十年。亚马逊长期亏损，经历了无数次暴跌，简直荒谬。

Okay? And they're basically a country, US CIA operation, I mean, took thirty years. Amazon lost money forever and had so many drawdowns, it was stupid.

IBit已经拥有1000亿美元？一年半就完成了十分之一的进度？

IBit has $100,000,000,000 It's tenth of the way there in a year and a half?

没错。我是说这太惊人了。但人们还在问，嘿，为什么它还没撼动市场？

Yeah. I mean, that's staggering. And people are like, Hey, well, why hasn't it moved the market?

我认为已经影响了。获批时我们还在40美元区间，对吧？

I think it has. We were in the 40s when it was approved, right?

现在的市场和我四年前刚入行时完全不同了。

This market is a different market than it was when I came in four years ago.

但你从我们相识那天起就一直在强调，这是必然的结局。你总说华尔街会入场，西装革履的人会进来，大机构终将介入——当时所有自由主义者都骂你，说什么'去他妈的政府'

But you were the person who beat the drum from the day I met you that this was the inevitable conclusion of how it would go. You always said it would be Wall Street, the suit's in the room, the major institutions are coming, and all the libertarians yelled at you and said, Fuck the government, and

该死的，他们居然叫我西装革履的家伙，我不明白为什么仅仅因为我来自那个世界就要这样称呼我。我赞赏比特币社区真正理解他们的产品，你们都需要去学习《孙子兵法》，因为你们根本不研究竞争对手。也不研究市场、目标市场，甚至像比特币是结算系统这样的术语。别再跟Visa谈论交易系统了，你们甚至不在同一个类别。

fuck the They called me a suit, I don't know why people would call me a suit just because I came from that world. I commend Bitcoin community for really understanding their product, you all need to go out and get the art of war because you do not study the competition at all. Or the marketplace or the addressable market or even the terminology like Bitcoin is a settlement system. Quit talking to Visa about a transaction system. You're even in the same category.

如果Visa和万事达卡需要180天才能结算，我可以在10分钟内完成。你想要哪个系统？

If Visa and Mastercard do not settle for one hundred and eighty days, I can settle in ten minutes. Which system do you want?

不知道你是否见过这个系统？

Don't know if you Which saw this system?

差远了，老兄。

It's not even close, man.

20 我可能会记错数字，但实际上我认为稳定币去年的交易额达到了4.6万亿美元，超过了信用卡？是Visa的三倍，ACH的一半。我记得ACH是9.1或9.2万亿，也许是4.8和9.2万亿，但稳定币确实在所有人不注意的情况下吞噬着世界。

20 I'm going to misquote the numbers, but actually I think it was stablecoins did $46,000,000,000,000 in transactions last Exceeded credit? Three times Visa and about half of ACH. I think ACH was 91, 92, maybe it was 48 and 92, but stablecoins are literally eating the world while nobody's looking.

没错。这正是信用卡公司将要介入的领域，他们会全力插足这个市场。

Correct. And that's where the credit card companies are going to either. They're going stick their nose hard in that space.

他们必须这么做。

They have to.

他们必须这样。还有什么

They have to. Is there anything

当你对‘比特币作为一门生意’或比特币整体进行风险管理时，是否存在某种信号会让你惊呼‘妈的，我错了’？比如某个价格点位？或是遭遇国家级攻击之类的事件，真的会动摇你的信念吗？因为我知道你是愿意改变观点的人。

as you sort of risk manage the idea of Bitcoin being a business or Bitcoin in general, is there any signal you could have where you would say, Shit, I was wrong? Like, is there a price it can go to? Is there, you know, a nation state level attack or something that could happen to it that would actually shake your conviction? Because I know you're a guy who's willing to change his opinion.

没错。听着，我犯过足够多的错误，所以越是自信时，我就越会问自己：嘿，这事错在哪？我记得大约五年前见过斯卡拉穆奇，当时问他持有多少比特币——那时我还不懂这问题有多冒昧。现在虽然还会问别人，但当时我问的是他们的平均持仓成本。

Yeah. Look, I've made enough mistakes that the more confident I am, the more I ask myself, hey, how could this be wrong? I remember meeting Scaramucci five years ago maybe, and I asked him how much Bitcoin he had. I didn't know that was a thing. Still ask people, but actually, I asked him what their average price is.

他直接告诉我持有数量。那会儿比特币30美元，他知道我重仓到近乎愚蠢，就问我：‘老兄，你觉得这样集中持仓是不是很傻？’我看着他说：听着，我有15岁和18岁的孩子。

And he told me how many he had. He said, hey man, and he knew that I was seriously long, like stupid. And he said, hey, do you think, this is when we were at $30. Hey man, do you think this is stupid, being so consolidated? And I looked at it and my answer was, look, I have a 15 and 18 year old kid.

如果我们都错了，安东尼的成本线比我低得多——但我想我们的孩子会像你我一样平凡长大。但如果我对了，我的孩子们将面临巨大难题：成为亿万富翁。有谁真能处理好这种财富？根本没人准备好。

If I'm wrong, and if you're wrong, Anthony, his cost base is much cheaper than mine, I figured that our children are going to grow up exactly the way you and I did. And if I'm right, my kids have a massive problem to deal with. They're going to be billionaires. And like who is prepared to deal with that? Zero human beings are prepared to deal with that kind of wealth.

他很喜欢这个答案，觉得精彩绝伦。我也认为这是个好答案。如果世界崩盘——迟早会的，因为这体系建立在火柴和汽油上，而美联储那个小灭火器早就失控了。它连提线木偶都算不上，就是张纸片。

So to me, he loved the answer, man. He thought that was an awesome answer. And I think it is a good answer. If the whole world goes to shit, and it will one day because it's built on matches and gasoline, man, okay, and a small little fire extinguisher called the Fed, who I think is totally out of control. Not even on, he's on the stage, but it's not even like you're a puppet, you're a paper.

如果中国决定采取不同策略，他就完蛋了。我们现在有个定时炸弹正在各国间传递——看谁先爆炸？日本？没错。

If China decides to do something different, he's done it. We have a timing ticking bomb just moving from country to country right now. Like who's gonna blow up first? Japan? Yeah.

日本有个问题。所以，我不认为我会退出这笔交易。我以前来过这里。我就是这样建立起我的事业的——我在40岁退休时就是做这样的决定。而且我对这次的决定比40岁时那次要确定得多。

Japan has a problem. So, would, I don't think I'd get off this trade. And I've been here before. This is how I built my I retired when I was 40 years old making decisions like this. And am so much more sure on this one than I was on the one at 40.

这次，没人能与我抗衡。没有人。就像我以前对抗埃克森美孚、壳牌康菲石油那样，伙计们。他们恨透了我。我当时试图让能源商品化。

This one, no one can with me. No one. Like I used to go up against ExxonMobil, Shell Conoco, man. They hated my guts. I was trying to commoditize energy.

我们现在有什么？哦，能源市场是世界上最好的市场。最不受操纵的，无法阻断阳光，炸毁管道。资源就是会往上流动。它总能找到办法，哪怕在水下。

What do we have today? Oh, energy market is the best market in the world. The least manipulated, cannot interrupt the sun, blowing pipelines up. Shit just flows up. It figures out how to Under water.

没人确切知道。把它放在水上，他们付一美元存储费。

No one exactly. Stick it on the water and they pay a dollar for storage.

那么，

So,

斯科特，另一件事是我没想到的——我会有很多机会把我在传统世界里的闲置资金投资到加密货币领域。矿工们。哇。我居然接触到了矿工。这给了我巨大的上涨空间，能兑换更多比特币。

The other thing, Scott, that I did not understand I was going to have a lot of opportunity to invest my trapped money in the legacy world into the crypto space. The miners. Wow. Like I've gotten access to the miners. It's given me just a monster upside that's going to convert more Bitcoin.

现在这是个挑战。我必须知道何时行动。我在NACA有仓位。我其实不太满意，但我谈论它是因为我认为人们应该让像我这样的人——像你我这样上电视的人——说：嘿老兄，我并不总是做对决定。我是说，亏了一半，我在117、120价位买了50万股，现在股价0.72美元。这他妈是个破产公司。

Now this is a challenge. I have to know when to do that. I have a position in NACA. I'm not really happy about it, but I talk about it because I think that people should make people like me that get on TV screens like you and me and say, Hey dude, I don't always make the right decisions. I mean, lost half, I bought half a million shares at 117, 120, and it's $0.72 It's a fucking broken company.

还有什么？策略，对吧？我在策略部门已经待了两年半。我完全没想到能有机会做所有这些事。所以，对这个行业的配置可能在89%到90%之间。

What else? Strategy, right? I've been in strategy for two and a half years. I had no idea I was going to have access to do all of this. So, allocation to this industry is probably in the 8990% range.

但你是否认为，就像你说的，最终必须把这些投资转回比特币？还是你视它们为对比特币的投资，或者只是高贝塔的比特币相关投资？

But do you view it as you have to get those investments back to Bitcoin at some point, like you said? Or do you view them as investments in Bitcoin or just high beta Bitcoin investments?

我认为它们是高贝塔投资。我讨厌用这些词，但我想大多数观众都明白，这些矿业公司风险极高。相比之下，比特币简直像在公园散步。只有少数...

Think they're high beta. I hate to use these words because I don't but think most of the audience look, these mining companies are extremely risky. The mining companies make Bitcoin look like a walk in the park. There's only been a

在这次波动后，你还持有它们全部吗？

few Are you still holding them all after this move?

哦，我还在呢。

Oh, I'm still here.

我也是。只是好奇。对了，你在哪儿买的铁？你在哪儿买的铁？

Me too. I'm just curious. Yeah. Where'd you buy Buy iron. Where'd you buy iron?

你还记得吗？

Do you remember?

便宜得离谱，老兄。

Stupidly cheap, man.

是啊，我原以为要3美元。

Yeah, I was thinking it was $3.

不过我还没用满四年，我是一年半前买的。

I have I'm not in it for four years, though. I bought it a year and a half.

嗯，我也是。

Yeah. Same.

我的一张沙发

One of my couches was

正绊到我的节目

just tripping on my show

而且不是五年前的事，就像是

about And not five years ago, it's like,

兄弟，我

bro, I

我是说，持仓等待50倍收益对我来说太久了。就像长期承受亏损一样，明明有很多其他选择。听着，五个月前你要是投资矿企，现在收益可能和我们投的Iron、Wolf、Cipher差不多——我买了8万股CleanSpark，本以为它成本优势会成为龙头，结果表现最差。所以这事真说不准。

mean, that's just too long for me to hold and get a 50X. It's just like, it's a long time to hold those losses because there's a lot you could have done. Look, you could have invested in the miners five months ago and had almost as good of a return as you Iron and I have Wolf, Cipher, CleanSpark, I did 80,000 shares of CleanSpark. I thought CleanSpark would be the beast because of its cost, so worse performance. So, you never know.

但我不会永远持有这些矿企股票，迟早会清仓

But, I will not stay in those miners forever. I'll be out of those minors

就在这个周期内吧。

Sometime this cycle.

大概未来六个月内...我觉得根本不存在什么周期，这概念是你们编的。不过半年内我应该会平掉这笔交易。

Probably within the next six I don't think there's a cycle. I think you guys made up a cycle. But in the next six months, I think I'll probably be out of that trade.

我认为确实存在周期。

I think they have a cycle.

谁说的？

Who does?

矿工们。不是在说Weekly。对。我也不再认同四年周期理论了。曾经信过，但现在觉得...

The miners. Not talking about Weekly. Right. I'm not talking about the I also don't ascribe to the four year cycle thing anymore. I did, but did like There's

是有周期。但如果特朗普再次当选，那就会变成八年周期。12年真的算总统任期吗？

a cycle. But if Trump gets into office again, it'll be an eight year cycle. 12 it really a president?

十六年，二十年。嘿，

Sixteen years, twenty years. Hey,

我想知道能拿到什么样的赔率。

I wonder what kind of odds I could get.

赌特朗普再次当总统？是啊。我们可以去Polymarket下注。

On Trump being president again? Yeah. We could go hit polymarket.

嘿，谁来告诉我能给我开什么赔率。但我必须赌。我赌唐纳德·特朗普会在2026到2030年间当总统，

Hey, somebody tell me what kind of odds you give me. But I've to bet. I've to bet that Donald Trump's our president, 26 to 30,

如果他被允许的话。嗯，民主党掌权后一年内就会弹劾他。但他不会下台的。

if he's allowed. Well, they'll impeach him in a year when the Democrats take one of them. But he won't go out.

我认为他们会这么做

I think they'll do

象征性的弹劾程序。是的。

the symbolic impeachment thing. Yeah.

要知道，我这么说是因为我不明白为何民主党一旦上台，这个市场就会被摧毁。它会被摧毁的。没人希望这样，连民主党自己也不愿意。这个市场将遭受灭顶之灾。我们正经历一个全球范围内极其怪异的文明转折点。

Know, the reason I say that is because I don't know how we This market is going to get obliterated if the Democrats come into office. It'll get obliterated. No one wants that, even the Democrats. This market will get obliterated. We're going through a really bizarre, I think, civilization moment, globally.

而美国已无法像从前那样环顾四周说：好吧，我一直这么操作但行不通。它在国际舞台上的地位也已今非昔比，世界格局彻底改变了。

And America is not in a position where it can just look around and go, Okay, I've been doing all this stuff this way. It's not working. But it also isn't on the world stage the way it used to be. It's not framed the same way. The world's not the same.

我们不会成为全球化市场，而会形成竞争性多元市场。我喜欢这个趋势，觉得太棒了。金砖国家加油。

We're not going to be a globalized market. We're going be a competitive poly market. I love that. I think that's awesome. Go Brix.

让另一个货币市场中心崛起吧。金砖国家。多极化市场中心是好事。没错，因为最终我们将拥有黄金、白银、比特币等储备资产，建立新型银行体系，能够投资于不会被政治愚蠢所侵蚀的真实资产。

Go another currency market center. Brix. Market centers are good. Yes, exactly. Because we'll end up with gold, silver, and Bitcoin and some type of reserve, some type of banking, some type of, Hey, I can invest in real assets that don't get dissolved by political idiocy.

就像被酸液溶解一样彻底消失。

Just dissolve like acid.

这正是系统设计的目的。这并非偶然。

Which is what the system is built to do. It's not like an accident.

没错。

Exactly.

是的，这不是管理不善。

Yeah. It's not mismanagement.

是啊，但听着，你们可以抱怨它为何存在。而我只需要考虑：如何保护自己？对吧？如何让我的家庭置身于所有问题之上？如果我站得足够高，就能俯瞰下方的战争而不被波及，对吗？

Yeah, but look, all you guys can complain about why it's there. All I got to do is, hey, how do I protect myself? Right? How do I get my family in a position where I'm elevated above all the problems? If I can get enough altitude and watch the war from down there, then I don't get hit, right?

我只是想照顾好我的家庭，或提升我当前的处境。有人会说：'我永远富不起来'。嘿，听着，当你今年才赚了一百万时，为什么总想着成为亿万富翁？为什么不先考虑如何——

I'm just trying to take care of my family or my position relative to where I am. And people go, Well, I'll never become rich. Hey, look, why are you thinking about becoming a billionaire when you've only made a million dollars this year? Why don't you think about becoming

成为

A

真正的亿万富翁？让自己超越现状？因为你不会直接超越所有富豪，而是逐步超越你成长的家乡。然后不断扩展，你的世界也随之扩大。

true billionaire. Elevating yourself above where you are now? Because you don't just elevate above all billionaires, you elevate gradually above the town you grew up in. And then you expand. Your world has expanded.

你不会这么做，如果只是在墙上掷骰子或提出疯狂想法的话。我实在无法投资这些纸面公司，它们对我来说毫无意义。那些像Netflix这样的老牌模拟公司，让我不禁感叹。

You don't do that if you're just throwing craps up against the wall and crazy ideas. I just can't invest in some of these paper companies. They don't make sense to me. The old analog companies like the Netflixes of the world. I'm like, wow.

它们看起来像是破产的企业。

They look like broken business.

你提到中本聪是个破产企业。我们得谈谈这个，因为你我当时都在同时买入。你知道，它从20多美元跌到4美元又反弹到8美元。他们买入了Meta Planet的大量股份。我认为现在它们的交易价可能低于其比特币价值调整后的折扣，甚至还没算上债务，我不确定。

You mentioned Nakamoto being a broken business. We ought to talk about it because you and I both were buying at the same time. You know, it went from $20 something, dollars 4 back to 8. They bought a major stake in Meta Planet. I think now they're trading probably at a discount to adjust the value of their Bitcoin, not even counting debt, I'm not sure.

但我们已经讨论过很多次了。我们都说，听着，现在价格回到了PIPE投资者入场的水平，1.12美元、1.10美元。我可以以同样的价格买入，虽然早期投资者已经亏损了90%，不管具体数字是多少。我当时就有预感当你

But we've had a lot of conversations about it. We both said, Listen, we're back to where the PIPE investors got in, buck 12, buck 10. I can buy it at the same It's as the early already gone down 90%, whatever it is. I had feeling when you

这么说时，我就想，哦。

said that. I'm like, Oh.

我知道。她不会那么说的。我们能感受到自己的错误，那已经是很久以前的事了。当时确实有这种感觉。是啊，三周过去了，我大概有5%的仓位。

I know. Well, she wouldn't have said that. We can feel our mistakes of It was a very long time ago. Felt that way. Yeah, well, three weeks I've got About 5%.

某种程度上，我很欣赏你的一点——你之前也提到过——你对自己认为的错误直言不讳，对决策也是如此，无论你是否视其为错误。我们在Spaces上聊过，当时价格大约是90美分左右，92.93美元，你说：'作为投资者，我应该加仓。但这次我不会，我犯了个错误。'

Kind of, and something I really like about you, and you touched on it before, you're very vocal about what you view as your mistakes, and very vocal about your decisions, whether you view them to be mistakes or not. We were on spaces and it was about 90 ish cents, $92.93, and you're like, the investor part of me says double down on my position. I'm not going to this time. I made a mistake.

是的，是的。唉，自尊心作祟，当我犯那种错误时，我买了两份。后来价格跌到92，我就想好吧。我最初以为它实际上在80多块。

Yep. Yep. Well, the ego, you know, my ego when I make a mistake like that, I bought two wedges of it. And then when it went down to 92, I'm like, okay. The first thing I thought was, I think it was in the 80s actually.

我当时想，干脆再投五十万美金加仓拉低平均成本。我告诉你吧。对啊。然后我又想，我为什么要这么做？

I was like, okay, I should just go grab another half a million dollars and smash it. Lower my average cost. I'll you this. Yeah. And I'm like, why would I do that?

现在管理层搞得一团糟。我为什么要在一个管理层犯根本性错误的标的上加倍押注？抱歉大卫，你表现得像个孩子。你该退出推特了。

The management's fucked up right now. Why would I go and try to double my position on something that the management's making just fundamental mistakes? I'm sorry, David. You're acting like a child. You've got to get off Twitter.

我投资可不是冲着这种管理水平。融资7.5亿美元后居然说'天啊，迈克尔发起的可转债确实存在风险'。伙计，别事后才告诉我这些。你才刚知道吗？

I did not invest in this kind of management. You don't raise $750,000,000 and then go, Oh, gosh. The convertibles that Michael launched, there's some risk on those. Dude, don't tell me that post facto. That you're just learning.

懂吗？我不想花钱雇一个玩了13年比特币的人来学习。不过这是我的问题，不怪他们。犯错的是我自己。

Okay? Like I'm not interested in paying somebody who's been in Bitcoin thirteen years to learn. So, look, but that's on me. I'm not really blaming them. I am the one making made the mistake.

我认为市场会给股价重新定价。绝大多数股东明确表示不认可。所以如果你不喜欢我可以取关，太好了。但所有股东都在告诉你：我们不认可。估计管理层会换人，或者有人会以6到10亿美元收购——他们现在估值也就3到4亿。

I do think people are going to differentiate the stock prices. Most certainly said, we do not approve. So if you don't like me and want to unfollow me, awesome. But every shareholder is telling you, we do not approve. I think the management probably gets changed and or somebody picks them up for $607,108 $100,000,000 They're worth 300 to $400,000,000 right now.

他们还持有5700枚比特币，价值本应达到7亿美元。所以现在股价深度折价。他们拥有Meta15%的股份。你该问问塞勒，塞勒肯定在盯着这块肥肉。

And they've got 5,700 Bitcoin, which should be worth $700,000,000. So, they're trading at a deep discount. They own 15% of Meta. You should ask Sailor. Sailor's got to be looking at it going,

有多少人在流口水。

how many Salivating.

对我来说，他不需要为比特币支付溢价。但日本呢？进入日本市场对迈克来说会非常有趣。作为战略股东，我很希望他能进入日本市场。你不能就这样贸然进入日本。

Well, for me, he doesn't need to pay a premium for Bitcoin. But Japan? Access to the Japanese market would be very interesting for Mike. As a shareholder of strategy, I would love him to have access to Japan. You can't just go launch in Japan.

这就是为什么MetaPlanet做得这么好，因为他们是唯一...好吧，其实也没那么好。他们是当时唯一的玩家。他们是2020、2021甚至2022年的战略选择。选个年份吧，但中本聪我认为是看准了这点——进入那些尚未接触的市场，创建一个类似微策略的载体。我理解他们做Meta Planet的原因，但那是个非常独特的案例，因为...

That's why MetaPlanet's done so well because they're the only Well, haven't really done that well. They were the only game in town. They were strategy 2020 or 2021 or even 2022. Choose your year, but they and this is why Nakamoto, I think, identified the let's go into markets that don't have exposure and create a micro strategy type vehicle. I get why they did Meta Planet, but that's a very unique situation Meta, because

明白Meta为什么这么做。

see why Meta did it.

是的，因为在那里你买不到ETF。如果你直接买现货比特币，卖出时的税负比卖出股票的税负高得多。这样做能获得巨大的税收套利空间。而且市场上没有其他选择，没有ETF对吧？所以你就是ETF出现前的微策略，吸取了所有经验教训。

Yeah, because they have you can't buy an ETF there. And if you buy spot Bitcoin, the taxes for selling are way worse than the taxes for selling the equity. You're getting a huge tax arbitrage by doing it. And there's no other game in town, no ETFs, right? So, you're micro strategy pre ETF with all the lessons learned.

是的，从理性上讲这个计划确实有道理——你应该在世界上每个没有接触到的国家都这样做。但每个市场都在变得越来越小。

Yeah, the plan does make sense to me intellectually that you should go do that in every country in the world that doesn't have exposure. But every market's getting smaller and smaller and smaller.

嗯，你甚至不能发行新股。我的意思是，你不能就这样跑去日本然后...

Well, you just can't do an issue either. I mean, it's not like you can just go to Japan and,

嘿，我在这儿。我是说，我正在拉斯维加斯和Sailor通话，就在他过来之前，我们做了准备会议，那简直就像免费大学教育。对吧。他说，所以，有个炉边谈话。MBA级别的。

Hey, I'm here. I mean, I'm talking to Sailor in Vegas, so right before he came over, we did the prep call, which basically is just like free college education. Right. He said, So, there's a fireside chat. MBA.

我们要谈什么完全由我决定？但他基本上给我展示了一套关于数字信贷的幻灯片，当他用图表呈现时，比如STRK、STRC，然后对比货币、对比共同基金、对比所有收益率。

What are we gonna talk about that's totally my decision? But he laid out for me basically a deck on digital credit, and when he put it in a chart, like STRK, STRC, and then versus currencies and versus mutual funds and versus all the yield.

哦，太棒了。

Oh, beautiful.

当你剔除税收因素后——我是说，他为那些其实不必过分关注比特币的人设计了一系列产品，让他们能获得比其他市场更高的收益，而且可以更早退出。我感觉他就像打开了巨大的资金闸门，并且不断寻找方法继续这么做。没人能和他竞争。所以，如果你问他，他会说国库公司也能做到，他们确实可以，但我不确定除了他之外还有谁有这种意愿。比如，你不会想让随便什么人来做这事。

And when you eliminate the taxes and, I mean, he's just created a bunch of products for people who actually shouldn't care so deeply about Bitcoin to earn a much better yield than they're getting in other markets that can be exited much earlier. And I feel like he's just opened this massive flood of money and continues to find ways to do that. Nobody else is competing with that. So, like, I think if you asked him, he would say treasury companies can do this, they can but I'm not sure that there's an appetite for anyone else beyond him. Like, you don't want some random dude doing that.

你有多大意愿购买那种产品而不是Sailor的STRC？STRC的波动性，我记得他说是50个基点。你可以预期它会在100上下浮动50个基点。你能获得10%的收益，非常安全。

Where's your appetite for buying that instead of Sailor's s t STRC? STRC, like the volatility, I think he says 50 bps. Like, you can count on it going, you know, 50 bps above a 100 or below. You're earning a 10% yield. It's extremely safe.

我记得它有四五倍的比特币超额抵押担保。所以首先，你能赚10%而不是银行账户里的2%。你某种程度上获得了比特币敞口，而且可以随时进出。

I think it's backed four or five to one, whatever it was, by Bitcoin, wildly over collateralized. So, A, you can just earn 10% instead of 2% in your bank account. You kind of have Bitcoin exposure, and you can exit it and enter it.

不，你没有任何其他比特币敞口。任何时候你操作，都能获得10%的收益。

No, you don't have any other Bitcoin exposure. Any time you do You have a 10% yield.

情感上确实如此。我正在参与迈克尔·塞勒的

Emotionally you do. I'm participating in the Michael Saylor's

但我认为投资者不想承担风险，他们只想要10%的收益率。他们不在乎。真的不在乎，老兄。我妹妹也不在乎钱从哪来。你知道的，一旦她涉足其中

But I think that investor doesn't want exposure to They just want the 10% yield. They don't care. They don't care, man. My sister doesn't care where she's getting it. You know, once she's in

嘿，最近怎么样？但更有趣的话题可能是他愿意给出10%的收益率，这意味着他愿意以高于你预期的利率向那些公司支付更多资金。这说明他资金的成本超过了10%。好吧，为了获得

it, hey, how's it going? But the more interesting conversation there maybe is that he's willing to give a 10% yield, which means he has a very he's willing to pay more than you're willing to pay to one of those companies at his interest rate. That means he's paying more than 10% Okay, on his money to get

但我觉得这就是区别所在。如果我能借到一万亿，我也愿意付10%利息。他的10%之所以可行，是因为他大部分借款利率是零。仔细想想这点。而他可能根本没考虑过这个。

but I think this is the difference. I would pay 10 if I could borrow a trillion dollars. His 10% isn't because most of what he borrowed was at zero. So, think about this. And he probably isn't thinking about this.

这种思路或许不对。但即便我以10%利率借入等额资金，整个公司的加权平均利息成本也低于6%，伙计。

This may be the wrong way to think about it. But my weighted average cost of interest across that whole company, even if I do equal amount at 10%, is less than 6%, dude.

如果你 如果你

If you If you're

把话都说开了。没错。哇哦，我肯定会和你一起这么干。

talking it all up. Yeah. Woah, I'll most certainly do that with you.

你持有STR、C、SCR吗，这些我都有吗？

Do you own STR, C, SCR, do I own all of them?

不，不，不，不。我不想要收益。你为什么要收入？你得为此交税。我完全不想要任何收入。

No, no, no, no. I don't want yield. Why do you want any income? You got to pay taxes on it. I do not want any income whatsoever.

拜托别给我任何钱。就像我有收入想送人似的。我是说，我会把所有的收入都砸进比特币。

Do not pay me anything, please. Like I've got some income I'd like to give away. I mean, I take any income I have and smash it into Bitcoin.

你是少数能这样生活的人之一。如果你是靠工资过活的人，那么，可能...

You're one of the fortunate people who can live like that. If you're a check Everyone check, Well, can

如果你想聊这个话题，好吧，事实是没人每周工作80小时。如果你每周工作不到80小时，你就一无所有。你懂的，老兄。我们给所有抱怨钱不够的人机会，但没人来我家门口问'我能做什么赚1000美元'。这家伙来过我家好几次了？老兄，这里有10个活儿，每个都能赚一千美元。

if you want to get into that conversation, okay, the truth is no one's working eighty hours a week. If you're not working eighty hours a week, you own nothing. You know that, dude. We give all you people that are bitching about like not making enough money, no one walks up to my front door and says, What can I do to earn $1,000 This cat's been in my house a bunch of time? Dude, there are 10 jobs to do for a thousand bucks each.

没人来。我后院停着一艘价值55000美元的船。来把它弄走，老兄。你能赚15美元。把它处理掉就行。

No one. I got a boat sit, $55,000 boat sitting on the back of my goddamn rack. Come take it from me, dude. You make $15 on it. Just get rid of it.

给我点钱。清理它。没人——不是白人，不是黑人，不是青少年，不是老人——没人每周工作80小时。卖掉它。我现在可以买比特币，每周只工作20小时。

Pay me something. Clean it. No one not whites, not blacks, not teenagers, not old people no one is working eighty hour weeks. Sold. And I can buy Bitcoin and work twenty hour week now.

就在那里。

Right there.

你明白我说的吗？我就是不相信这是真的，懂吗？就像你在Popeyes炸鸡店工作，你就该打两份工。我就是这么干的。天啊，伙计。

You see what I'm saying though? I just don't believe this is true, okay? Like if you're at Popeyes Fried Chicken and you're working there, you should be working two jobs. That's what I did. Jeez, man.

足球运动员、棒球运动员和华尔街的那些人每周他妈的工作一百个小时。职业球手、高尔夫选手周末都在训练，为周一比赛做准备。业务员周一就到位准备周二的工作。登录他们的客户关系管理系统，找出前十大客户。

Football players, baseball players, and people on Wall Street work one hundred hours every fucking week. Professional ballplayer, golfer is training on Saturdays and Sundays to play on Monday. Business salespeople show up Monday to prepare for Tuesday. Get into their CRM. Figure out who their top 10 clients are.

就像我这样。我不需要自动化程序、区块链或客户管理系统来告诉我前十大客户是谁。知道是谁吗？比特币。比特币。

Like I do. I do not need an automated program or a blockchain or a CRM to tell me who my top 10 clients are. You know who they are? Bitcoin. Bitcoin.

比特币。这就是我的前十大客户。我甚至没收到过客户投诉。他们爱我。概不退款，老兄。

Bitcoin. Those are my top 10 clients. I don't even get any complaints from my clients. They love me. It's such a No refunds, dude.

没有诉讼。你喜欢

No lawsuits. Did you like

保存这个

save this

今天吗？

for today?

你是不是一直在重复说这个商业话题？感觉我还没听过比特币的推介，把比特币当作一门生意来看。

Have you been saying this business thing over and over again? Feel like I haven't heard the pitch of Bitcoin, treat Bitcoin as a business.

我说

I talk

每天都对你说。

to you every day.

我们应该乘胜追击，因为我听了我兄弟和所有那些借钱的人的话。我觉得太棒了，老兄。我上周买了31个比特币。我买了300个。我买了3000个。

We should go on a roll because I listen to all these guys, my brother and all these people borrowing money. I'm like, that's awesome, dude. I bought 31 Bitcoin last week. I bought 300 Bitcoin. I bought 3,000.

老兄，我买了31个，而且除了我没人拥有它们。我喜欢这样。而且我是用债务买的。每个月我都能负担得起偿还的债务。我的收入就花在这上面。

Dude, I bought 31 and nobody else but me owns them. I like it. And I did it with debt. Debt that I can afford to pay every every month. That's where my income goes.

还清债务，利率8%或9%。这和支付8%的房贷有什么区别？有什么不同？对吧？这房子会让你花一大笔钱。

Pay the debt off, 8% or 9%. How is that different than paying 8% for a mortgage? How is it different? Right? This house is going to cost you a fortune.

你明白的，对吧？总有一天它会值100个比特币。

You know that. Right? It's going to be worth 100 Bitcoin one day.

那些人的故事，就像你

The stories of people who paid like, you

知道吗，老兄，我那房子值1.2亿美元。我投了860万美元进去，但如果当初买1000个比特币，现在就是1.12亿美元了。

know $120,000,000 for my house, dude. I put $8,600,000 in that house, and if I'd have bought 1,000 Bitcoin, it's $112,000,000 today.

房子确实不错。

It's a nice house.

房子是不错。好吧，我的保险费刚涨了50%。现在这房子成了商用物业，保险费直接涨了一半。

It's a nice house. Okay. My insurance just went up 50%. Now, I have a house that's a business, and my insurance just went up 50%.

是因为洪水风险吗？是的。

Is that because of the flood risk? Yeah.

有一个报价。

There's one offer.

只有

There's only

一个报价，然后是Chubb，3.5美元。从56美元涨到96美元，而Chubb的报价高达350美元。懂吗？所以，业主协会费用会飙升。房地产将遭受重创。这个地区会出问题。

one And offer then there was Chubb, dollars $3.50. Went from $56 to $96 and Chubb's out there at $350 Okay? So, HOA fees are going to jack. Real estate's going to get destroyed. This area, it's going to be a problem.

业主协会费用是个麻烦。现在，如果德桑蒂斯帮我们个忙，不收税，那是真的吗？我觉得是真的。

HOA fees are problematic. Now, if DeSantos does us a favor and does no tax Is that real? I think it is real.

还是说那只是像

Or is that just like a

不，我认为

No, I think

这听起来像是个很棒的口号。你怎么做到的？我是说，市政当局...坦帕没有房产税怎么维持？这简直就像我们支付学校经费的方式。但情况是一样的。

This sounds awesome soundbite. How do you do that? Like how do the municipalities I mean, is How does Tampa survive without property taxes? This is literally like how we pay for schools. But it is the same.

我喜欢不交房产税的想法，但这些钱总得有别的来源填补。

I love the idea of not paying property taxes, but like it's not like that money's gonna be replaced.

是啊，我也不知道。

Yeah, I don't know.

学校、消防员这些，你知道的，重要的事情。也许学校没那么重要，不过。

Schools, firemen, you know, important things. Maybe schools aren't that important, but.

嗯，根据我们得到的产品来看，我可能会说也许并非如此。

Well, based on the product we're getting, I would say that perhaps not.

我觉得你应该创建一个完整的演示文稿。准备一场演讲或演示，说明比特币我认为是可以进行推销或路演的。我没开玩笑。这是我听过最精彩的表述方式之一。

Think you should like create a A whole deck. A speech or a deck that Bitcoin I think is a you can go on the sale or roadshow. I'm not kidding. I think it's one of the more brilliant framings of it that I've heard.

但你能明白我一直在...我是说，你看，我刚进入这个行业时就看到了，我开始投资公司。

But you can see what I've been I mean, look, you saw when I came in the industry, I started investing in companies.

嗯。

Yeah.

对吧？然后我开始买比特币。我看到了Node四十。我投了800万到Node四十。这是个很棒的生意，明白吗？

Right? And I started buying Bitcoin. I saw Node forty. I stuck 8 mil into Node forty. It's a great business, okay?

但我越看越觉得，我们当时大概有7.5万美元。我打电话给佩里说，佩里，我拥有公司一半的股份。我说，佩里，你得另找投资人，明白吗？因为我不想再开会讨论会计问题了。

But the more I looked at it, the more I'm like I think we were about 75,000. I called Perry. I said, Perry, I own half the company. I said, Perry, you've to find another investor, okay? Because don't want to go to any more meetings and talk about accounting.

这是个绝妙的工具，懂吗？是门好生意。但我这辈子都在折腾这些事，飞来飞去见人谈业务。越琢磨越觉得——7万美元的比特币，而我在这生意里投了750万。

This is a huge this is a beautiful tool, okay? It's a great business. But I have spent a whole life building these things, flying around, meeting people, doing biz dev. And the more I looked at it, I'm like, dollars 70,000 Bitcoin. I got $7,500,000 in this business.

这公司迟早轻松值个几亿。全球顶尖玩家都在其中，但它太吵了。

The business is going to be worth a few $100,000,000 easily one day. So, are some of the biggest players in the world. But it has noise.

你干脆把所有投进去的钱都拿来买比特币算了。

You just buy Bitcoin with all the money you put into that.

我就觉得，嘿哥们，我只想买比特币，因为它清净。唯一的波动就是涨跌。今天我和格兰特买了10.8万美元比特币，刚挂单。

I just like, Hey, dude. I'm just going to buy Bitcoin because it has no noise. The only noise it has is it does this. And it allows me me and Grant bought $108,000 Bitcoin today. We just put bids in.

喂老兄，准备好了就给我成交。砰！格兰特吃了300枚。

Hey, man. Fill me. Fill me when you're ready. Boom. Grant picks up 300.

我收了30枚比特币。这就是你

I pick up 30 Bitcoin. This is You

你觉得他会停止工作吗？他难道要彻底放弃这一切，然后说‘我拼死拼活工作’？不，

think he's going to stop working? He's just going to finally give up on all of it and say, I'm working my ass out? No,

他是个

he's a

他是头牛。牛。因为他也可以直接买比特币。对。他钱多到可以直接买比特币然后一辈子高枕无忧，再也不用做任何事。

He's a bull. Bull. Because he could just buy Bitcoin too. Yeah. He's got enough money that he could just buy Bitcoin and be fine forever and not have to do anything else.

他有42支基金。你看，还有一点。那可是很多

He's got 42 funds. See, here's another thing. That's a lot

工作。

of work.