美国健康数据系统的崩溃；睡眠如何影响你的专注力；火星液态脉络中的生命？

美国各部门的大规模削减正危及重要的长期调查和数据集。这些统计数据能够监测退伍军人健康、孕产妇死亡率乃至整个国家的长期健康状况。

Sweeping cuts across US agencies are putting vital long running surveys and datasets in danger. These are the kinds of statistics that enable monitoring of things like veteran health, maternal mortality, even the long term health of the entire nation.

官员们表示，没有这些数据，国家将如同盲飞。我们的美国健康记者将在今天节目中揭示特朗普政府削减健康监测资金带来的一些惊人影响。

Officials are saying that without this data, the country would effectively be flying blind. And our US health reporter will be revealing some of the startling impacts of the Trump's administration's cuts to health monitoring on the show today.

我们还将了解大脑如何进行自我清洁，以及前一晚睡眠不足如何干扰这一过程。

We'll also be learning about how our brains clean themselves and how this disrupts your day you don't get enough sleep the night before.

就像洗衣机的漂洗程序一样。我们说的是这个意思吗？

A rinse cycle, so like a a washing machine. Is that what we're talking about here?

没错，正是如此。

Yes. Exactly.

脑部清洗机。没错。我就是为这个来的。

Brainwasher. Yes. I'm here for it.

此外还将探讨火星永久冻土层中可能隐藏的水脉，这些水脉或许能成为火星生命的家园。

And also how veins of water may be hiding in the permafrost on Mars and potentially could be home to Martian life.

他们说这些矿脉甚至不深埋地下，但这些矿脉可能孕育生命。

They're saying that these veins aren't even that deep under the surface, but these veins could support life.

本期节目由Welcome播客《当科学找到出路》赞助播出。

This episode is sponsored by Welcome's podcast, When Science Finds A Way.

欢迎来到这个世界、这个宇宙以及我们的故事。我是蒂莫西·雷维尔博士。

Welcome to the world, the universe, and us. I'm doctor Timothy Revel.

我是佩妮·萨特博士。今年美国政府对本国公共卫生系统接二连三地重拳出击。特朗普政府已裁减国家顶级公共卫生机构数百名员工。如此大规模的削减让人难以看清影响——即便尘埃落定后——更不用说这对科学研究和医疗本身意味着什么。今天我们请来健康记者格蕾丝·韦德，揭示这些举措可能造成的灾难性后果。

And I'm doctor Penny Sarte. The US government has dealt blow after blow to the country's public health system this year. The Trump administration has laid off hundreds of employees at the country's top public health agency. And with such sweeping cuts, it can be hard to get a picture of what the impact is even you wait for the dust to settle, and and also what that means for scientific research and health care itself. So today, we've got a health reporter Grace Wade here to shed light on just how devastating some of the effects of this are likely to be.

格蕾丝，你好。

Grace, hi.

你好。

Hi.

那么格蕾丝，能否先给我们讲讲背景？因为最近美国政府流失公共卫生专家的情况确实令人震惊。

So Grace, could you give us some of the backstory of this first? Because it it's really felt like the US government has just been bleeding public health experts recently.

事实确实如此。美国卫生与公众服务部今年已历经多轮裁员。三月份时裁减了约2万名员工，最近又解雇了1100个职位。这令人担忧的原因有很多，包括部分被裁员工负责运营极其关键的公共卫生调查和数据库。

That's because it is. The US Department of Health and Human Services has experienced multiple rounds of layoffs this year. So in March, it lost about 20,000 employees. And most recently, it terminated an additional 1,100 positions. And this is concerning for a variety of reasons, including that some of those let go are in charge of running really crucial public health surveys and databases.

这些数据集构成了美国公共卫生政策的基石，帮助我们识别、监测并应对全国范围内的健康威胁。

These data sets really form the foundation of public health policy in The US, helping us identify and monitor and respond to health threats across the country.

要让人理解这类数据集的重要性相当困难。能否向我们说明美国正在丢失哪些数据，以及为何这会造成严重后果？

It can be quite hard to get across the picture of just how important datasets like these can be. Can you explain to us the kind of data that The US is losing or missing out on and and why that's such a bad thing?

目前尚难统计有多少调查项目受到影响，但据我的报道显示至少已有五项遭波及。首当其冲的是已持续半个多世纪的《全国药物使用与健康调查》，该调查长期监测美国的药物滥用、成瘾及心理健康状况。四月时，负责该调查的17名员工全体被裁。这项为政策制定者分配药物滥用与心理健康服务资金提供关键依据的调查，未来将由谁接手尚不明确。随后政府在九月宣布终止追踪全国食品安全的《家庭食品保障报告》。

Well, it's been difficult to know how many surveys have been affected, but so far, my reporting shows that at least five have been impacted. The first of these is the National Survey on Drug Use and Health, which has been monitoring drug use, addiction, and mental health in The US for more than a half a century. In April, all 17 people in charge of this survey were laid off. It isn't clear who will run this survey moving forward, which plays a crucial role in helping policymakers allocate funding for substance use and mental health services. Then the government announced in September that it would end the household food security reports, which tracks food insecurity throughout the country.

政府声明称这些报告冗余、成本高昂、被政治化且只会制造恐慌。但事实并非如此。这项调查数十年来一直获得两党支持，实际上能通过确保食品援助精准投向最需要人群来帮助政府节省开支。

It said in a statement that these reports were redundant, costly, politicized, and did nothing except fearmonger. But that isn't the case. This survey has received bipartisan support for decades and can actually help the government save money by ensuring food assistance programs are targeted to those who would benefit the most.

确实。数据往往如此：无法测量的问题就无法解决。这正是优质数据对政府高效运作至关重要的原因，也是这些数据集流失会造成巨大问题的症结所在。

Right. And, like, this is just so often the case with data. You can't address a problem unless you can measure it. And then that's just why good data is so important for running effective government. And also why just the loss of these data sets is such a big problem.

所以我想问题还不止于此，对吗？你们还发现了更多被削减的项目。

So it I guess the thing is it doesn't even stop there. Right? There's more that you've identified that have been cut.

是的。最近，政府裁减了国家生命统计系统的大部分工作人员，该系统负责追踪全美的出生和死亡数据。它还报告全国主要死因和孕产妇死亡率。

Yeah. Most recently, the government cut the majority of the staff behind the National Vital Statistics System, which tracks births and deaths across The US. It also reports on the country's leading causes of death and maternal mortality rates.

想到这类数据收集和报告工作可能会受到影响，这让我感到非常震惊。

It's astonishing to me to think that that kind of data collection and reporting could become compromised.

是的。还有更多。负责运营国家死亡索引的整个团队也被解散了。这是一个鲜为人知的数据库，但它包含美国每例死亡的身份信息，包括姓名、居住地、死因，以及许多情况下的社保号码。这个索引对众多长期研究和分析至关重要，从比较退伍军人与非退伍军人的健康状况，到协助维护数据完整性和老年人长期研究。

Yeah. And there's more. The entire team running the National Death Index was also terminated. This is a very little known database, but it contains identifying information about every death in The US, including the person's name, place of residence, cause of death, and in many cases, their Social Security number. And so this index is integral to numerous long term studies and analyses from understanding how the health of veterans compares with nonveterans to assisting with data integrity and long term studies of older adults.

政府还解雇了负责规划国家健康与营养调查的团队。这项调查可能是美国最全面的健康、饮食和疾病评估。它为膳食指南提供依据，监测毒素暴露情况，甚至帮助更新食品标签。

The government also laid off the team in charge of planning the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey. This survey is probably the most comprehensive assessment of health, diet, and illness in The US. It informs dietary guidelines, monitors exposures to toxins, and even helps update food labeling.

所以这是大量的裁员，将会出现很多空缺和缺失的职责。我们是否知道他们计划替换这些人吗？会召回他们吗？还是会把职责转交给其他人？

So it's it's a lot of layoffs, and there's gonna be a lot of gaps and just missing roles and responsibilities there. Do we know if they're planning to replace any of these people, to bring any of them back, to pass on their responsibilities to someone else?

卫生与公众服务部似乎已经撤销了对营养调查工作人员的终止决定。它还告诉《新科学家》，由于法院命令暂时阻止了最近的裁员，他们并未强制执行，但拒绝评论如果法院命令解除是否会继续裁员，以及未来如何维护这些数据库。

The HHS does seem to have reversed terminations of those working on the nutrition survey. It also told New Scientist that it wasn't enforcing the most recent layoffs due to a court order that has temporarily blocked them, but it declined to comment on whether it would go through with them if the court order lifts or how it plans to maintain these databases moving forward.

显然，我们是《新科学家》播客。我们热爱科学。科学依赖于数据。但对于听到这些内容并认为其中一些听起来非常小众、非常详细、很多不必要繁琐工作的人，你会怎么说，Grace？

So obviously, we're we're New Scientist podcast. We love science. We we science depends on data. But for people who are hearing this and thinking some of this sounds very niche, very detailed, a lot of unnecessary busy work, what would you say, Grace?

我无法充分强调这有多令人担忧。前官员告诉我，这就像盲目飞行。国家将无法知道公共卫生工作的重点在哪里，也无法识别是否出现了新的威胁。后果可能是灾难性的。

I cannot emphasize enough how concerning this is. Former officials tell me it would be like flying blind. The country would have no way of knowing where to prioritize public health work or identify if a new threat has emerged. It could be really catastrophic.

说到这个，Grace，你一直是我们的禽流感专家，我感觉北半球又到了这个季节。我们知道去年病毒在美国一些农场广泛传播。之后的情况如何？这些州的监测工作进展怎样？

Speaking of which, Grace, you've been our resident bird flu expert, and I I feel like it's getting to that time of year again in the Northern Hemisphere. We know that last year, the virus became widespread at some US farms. Do we know what's happened since? What what's happening with the monitoring of that in these states?

实际上这方面有些好消息。美国疾病控制与预防中心在7月宣布禽流感紧急状态结束，因为自2月以来没有报告新的人类病例。农场动物的感染也在稳步下降，这要归功于特朗普政府持续并扩大了全国范围内的乳制品牛奶检测。这个项目使他们能够识别受感染的畜群并迅速控制病毒。据我所知，这项工作仍在进行中。

So there's actually some good news there. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced an end to the bird flu emergency in July after no new human cases have been reported since February. Infections in farm animals have also been steadily declining, and that's thanks to the Trump administration continuing and expanding upon the nationwide testing of dairy milk. So this program has allowed them to identify infected herds and quickly contain the virus. And from my understanding, that is all still ongoing.

所以这确实是一个很好的例子，说明监测和数据真正发挥了作用，对吧？

So that's quite a good example then of where monitoring and data, like, genuinely pays off. Right?

是的，完全正确。

Yes. Exactly.

是的，这方面有好消息真是太好了。关于目前持续的美国政府停摆，这对科学和健康领域有影响吗？

Yeah. I mean, that's great to have some good news on that front. On The US Government shutdown, which is ongoing, is that affecting science and health at the moment?

是的。所有被视为非必要的政府活动目前都暂停了。这意味着审查资助提案的流程已经停止。许多研究因此被延误。拥有活跃资助的研究人员和机构通常可以在政府停摆期间继续提取资金，但他们无法获得政府机构的行政或技术支持。

Yeah. So all government activities deemed nonessential are paused right now. And what that means is processes for reviewing grant proposals have stopped. So a bunch of research is getting delayed. Researchers and institutions with active grants can usually continue to withdraw funds during a government shutdown, but they can't get administrative or technical support from government agencies.

美国国立卫生研究院在政府停摆期间也会暂停临床试验和基础研究的招募工作。简而言之，政府停摆给研究按下了暂停键，但不应该使其完全脱轨。

The National Institutes of Health also pauses recruitment for clinical trials and basic research during a shutdown. So in short, the government shutdown is putting a pin on research, but it shouldn't derail it completely.

现在插播一条赞助商信息。最优秀的科学不仅局限于实验室。它能改变生活。但研究者与其对人们产生的影响之间的联系常被遗忘。这正是《当科学找到出路》播客所填补的空白。

Now time for a word from our sponsor. The best science isn't just a laboratory endeavor. It changes lives. But that link between researchers and the impact they have on people is often forgotten. That's the gap filled by Welcomes podcast, When Science Finds A Way.

主持人艾丽西亚·温莱特是植物学家转型的好莱坞演员，她邀请前沿领域的研究者讲述他们鼓舞人心的故事，同时呈现世界各地社区如何运用科学改善生活、塑造未来。节目内容涵盖从肯尼亚霍乱预防到基于原住民实践的山火管理方法等广泛议题。《当科学找到出路》现已上线各大播客平台。

Host Alicia Wainwright is a botanist turned Hollywood actor who invites researchers at the cutting edge to tell their inspiring stories alongside the people in communities around the world who are working with science to improve lives and shape their own futures. Episodes cover topics ranging from cholera prevention in Kenya to wildfire management approaches rooted in indigenous practices. When Science Finds A Way is available now wherever you're listening.

蒂姆，假设你昨晚睡得特别糟。第二天你会是什么状态？感觉如何？有什么

Now, Tim, imagine you've had a terrible night's sleep. What's the next day like for you? How are you feeling? What has

影响？确实。通常不会太好。我睡眠不足时状态很差。特别是专注力方面，我的拖延症会加重。

it been? Yeah. Not normally not the best. I'm not very good with not much sleep. Especially like concentration wise, I my procrastination levels go up.

没错。我很容易分心。待办清单不仅没变短，反而越来越长。

Yeah. I'm getting distracted easily. Yeah. My list is not getting shorter. It's getting longer.

你知道的，就是那种日子。

You know, those kind of days.

确实如此。这就是个问题。当你前一晚没睡好时，真的很难集中注意力。而一项新发现解释了原因。健康记者Carissa Wong在这里

Exactly. And that is a thing. It can be really hard to focus your mind when you haven't slept well the night before. And a new discovery actually explains why. Health reporter Carissa Wong is here

为我们讲述详情。你好Carissa。你好Penny。是的。这个故事现在简直就是在说我。

to tell us about it. Hi, Carissa. Hi, Penny. Yeah. This story is way too relatable to me right now.

我刚搬了新家，卧室窗外有刺眼的白光。我没有窗帘。经典。我连卧室门都没有。家里简直一团糟。

I've just moved house and there's bright white lights outside my bedroom window. I have no curtains. Classic. I have no bedroom door. My house is an absolute mess.

但没错，我现在真的无法集中注意力。所以我正在努力

But yeah, I I am literally losing focus right now. So I'm trying

回到正题上。

Back on the story.

是的。显然这个问题影响着我们所有人。但事实上，人们对它知之甚少，比如睡眠不足如何导致注意力涣散。

Yes. So what this thing obviously affects all of us. Yeah. But actually, it's really poorly understood like how your lack of sleep might actually lead your mind to lose focus.

没错。因为这种感觉太熟悉了。看起来不言自明，但我们其实并不清楚这两者为何相关联。

Yeah. Because it's such a familiar feeling. It kinda seems self evident, but I guess we don't actually know why the two things are linked.

没错。我们还不清楚具体涉及哪些通路。是的。科学家们提出的一个观点是，基本上在你睡觉时，大脑会执行一些非常关键的功能。嗯哼。

Exactly. We don't know those exact pathways involved. Yeah. And one idea that scientists have had is that basically when you're sleeping, your your brain does some really crucial functions. Mhmm.

也许当你第二天睡眠不足时，大脑会拼命试图补做这些任务

And perhaps when you're sleep deprived the next day, it's desperately trying to catch up on some of these tasks

而这会干扰你的注意力。所以我们已知的这些对大脑健康至关重要的睡眠时发生的活动，比如记忆巩固和清理代谢废物——就是这类机制吗？

and that's interfering with your focus. So some of these things that we know are fundamental for brain health that happen when we sleep, it's things like laying down memories and clearing out any mess or junk. Is that the kind of thing we're talking about here?

对，正是如此。我们即将讨论的这个发现关于大脑的'冲洗循环'。据我们理解，这种机制通常只在你深度睡眠时发生，清醒时几乎不会出现。这个名字很棒吧？

Yeah, exactly. So this finding that we're gonna talk about is about the brain's rinse cycle. And it's it's something that happens normally only when you're in deep sleep, and it happens very little when you're awake is what we understand. Isn't this a great name?

是啊，冲洗循环。就像洗衣机一样。

Yeah. Rinse cycle. So like a a washing machine.

是

Is that

这个意思吗？

what we're talking about here?

是的，正是如此。

Yes. Exactly.

洗脑。没错，我完全赞同。

Brainwashing. Yes. I'm here for it.

在被称为非快速眼动睡眠的深度恢复性睡眠阶段，我们的大脑活动会略有变化，这实质上导致了一种名为脑脊液的清澈液体在大脑周围流动冲刷。随着它的流动，会带走代谢废物——那些白天产生并积累起来的蛋白质和分子，它们可能堵塞大脑，干扰其功能。因此，这个清理过程在我们睡眠时发生至关重要。

So during a phase of really deep restorative sleep called non REM sleep, our brain changes its activity activity a little bit and that essentially leads to this clear fluid that bathes the brain called cerebral spinal fluid being kind of flushed around your brain and as it moves around, it sweeps up this metabolic waste. So proteins and molecules that are produced during the day and they build up, and they can clog up the brain kind of interfering with its function. So it's really important that this happens while we sleep.

没错。因为其中有些物质是像tau蛋白这样的东西，这类蛋白质与帕金森症等疾病有关。对吧？清除这些物质非常重要。

Yeah. Because some of these things are things like tau proteins that, like, proteins that are implicated in in things like Parkinson's. Right? It's really important to remove this stuff.

是啊，我猜这确实有点像冲洗循环。对吧？你知道的，所有这些液体来回冲刷，清理掉所有废物。但为什么这会导致注意力不集中呢？

Yeah. It I guess it really is kind of like a a rinse cycle. Right? You know, you've got all this sloshing about and it's clearing up all the waste material. But why is that linked to a lack of concentration?

是的。当你睡眠质量差时，大脑就失去了进行这种重要冲洗循环、清理废物的机会。研究人员由此推测，也许大脑会在你睡眠不足的第二天试图补做这些清洁循环，而这可能就是干扰你注意力的原因。为验证这一点，一个研究团队招募了约26名19至40岁的受试者，先让他们获得充足睡眠，两周后又要求他们彻夜不眠——研究人员在实验室里保持他们清醒状态。

Yes. So when you sleep poorly, your brain doesn't get that chance to kind of do this great rinse cycle and clearing out all of this waste. So researchers had this idea that maybe the brain is trying to catch up on these cleaning cycles the next day when you're sleep deprived and so that's maybe what's interfering with your attention. To explore this, a team of researchers have now recruited about 26 people aged between 19 and 40 and they were asked to get a good night's sleep and then two weeks later they were also asked to have a terrible night's sleep where they basically slept not at all because researchers were keeping them awake in a lab.

我们...知道他们是怎么做到的吗？

Do do we know how they did that?

我不知道他们是怎么做到的，但希望他们进行了有趣的对话，而不只是谈论天气。

I do not know how they did that but hopefully they had some interesting conversation and it wasn't just the weather.

读到这些研究总让我紧张，因为我觉得如果有人告诉我必须睡个好觉，这句话本身就足以毁掉那晚的睡眠。

Reading about these studies always makes me tense because I think if someone told me I had to get a good night sleep, that would be enough to ruin the night sleep

对我来说是这样。

for me.

确实。我很同情这些人。

For sure. I feel for these people.

于是他们在实验室里被研究人员盯着度过了一个异常糟糕的夜晚。第二天早上，研究人员让参与者完成注意力测试任务。这些任务主要是让参与者盯着屏幕，每当十字变成方块或听到特定音调时就要按键。研究发现睡眠不足时表现极差——有17%的提示被漏掉；而睡得好时漏检率只有5%，差距相当明显。

So yeah, they had this really weird bad night's sleep with researchers staring at them in a lab and so what the researchers did is they got the participants to carry out these attention tasks the morning after both of those nights. And these tasks basically involved the participants looking at a screen and every time a cross turned into a square or they heard a tone, a very specific tone, they had to hit a button. And so what the researchers found is that of course when you're sleep deprived, you're really bad at doing this. So about seventeen percent of the time they just missed the cue whereas when they had a good night's sleep, they were much better only five percent of the time did they miss the cue. Quite a difference there then yeah.

最酷的发现是：当参与者出现注意力涣散时，大脑会同步进行微型清洗循环。就是我们之前说过通常在睡眠中进行的清洁过程，但看起来大脑会在注意力涣散时见缝插针完成这个清洗。具体来说，参与者失去专注约两秒后，脑底部会冲出一股脑脊液，而当注意力恢复约一秒后，这些液体又会被重新吸收回大脑。

So what was really cool about all of this though is that when the participants had a lapse in their attention that coincided with the brain seeming to do this mini rinse cycle. So it's the sort of cleaning that we said before is like normally happening during sleep but it looked like the brain were just filling it in during these attention lapses. And to be specific about it, the participants lost focus about two seconds before a bit of cerebrospinal fluid was flushed out of the brain at the base of the brain, and then this fluid was drawn back into the brain about one second after the attention recovered.

这太疯狂了，对吧？

That's mad, isn't it?

是的。我很喜欢。太棒了。

Yeah. I love it. That's amazing.

在注意力不集中的时候，脑内液体实际上会快速进出流动，就像在进行清洁工作。当你思绪飘忽、难以集中注意力时，其实是因为大脑正在进行小型清理。这让我感觉好受些——你知道，当无法专注于手头任务时会有负罪感，但实际上你的大脑在进行必要的维护。

So fluid is sort of sloshed in and out of the brain during these lapses of attention and this kind of rapid, let's catch up on the cleaning. And so when your mind drifts and you're really struggling to sort of stay focused, it's actually because your brain is doing this mini cleanse. Sort of makes me feel better. You know, you feel guilty when you can't focus on the task at hand, but actually your brain is doing necessary maintenance.

没错，我这不是在走神，而是在进行大脑清洁。

Yeah, exactly. I'm not zoning out. I'm just brain cleaning.

这很酷，但关联性在哪里？为什么在快速清洁时我们必然会丧失注意力或专注力？

It's very cool but what's the link? Like why do we necessarily lose our attention or focus when there's this quick surge of cleaning?

目前还不完全清楚原因，但这个发现非常有趣。研究人员希望如果能定位到连接这两个过程的共享核心脑回路，或许就能找到方法让我们在保持大脑微型清洁的同时，避免出现注意力问题——毕竟我们普遍睡眠不足。要知道注意力涣散不仅会影响会议表现，开车时走神更是非常危险。

Yeah, it's not totally clear why but that's such an interesting thing to find out and the research researchers hope that if they can pinpoint maybe a shared core brain circuit that is coupling these two processes together then maybe they could even come up with a way for us to, you know, let that mini cleaning happen because let's face it, we're all still be sleep deprived So, all the yeah, maybe they can find a way for that to carry on but then to stop you having the attention problems which of course are they're not just about phasing out in a meeting, it's also to do with like driving. You might have a lapse in attention. That's really dangerous.

确实，这个理论能让人对分心现象感觉好受些。当你注意力分散时，其实大脑里正在进行重要活动——那种液体晃动的动静听起来就很让人分心。不过这也让我思考：这种现象的另一面是什么？

Yeah. I think I think it can make you feel a bit better about those distractions that, like, whilst it's ongoing, there's quite a serious thing going on when you get distracted. It's not it's not just you. It's like a bit of sloshing going on in your head, which sounds pretty distracting to me. But it does make me think about like, what's the other side of this?

比如，有没有什么方法能促进大脑冲洗？如果我们睡眠不足，或者想要一个超级清洁的大脑？

Like, is there anything we could do to boost our brain rinsing? You know, if we don't get enough sleep or we just want a super clean brain?

深度清洁。

Deep clean.

深度清洁没错。调到超强杀菌模式。我们该怎么操作？

Deep yeah. Put it on the ultra high sanitizing setting. How do we do that?

是啊，我特别希望能有一种方法，在我感到昏昏欲睡时让大脑自动进行清理循环。但研究人员目前还没找到实现这一目标的方法。不过我们确实知道，当脑脊液从大脑中排出时，会进入这个被称为淋巴系统的隐形管网系统。一旦进入淋巴系统，它就能重新回到血液中，最终将废物排出体外。

Yeah. I would really love a way to just make my brain do a cleaning cycle whenever I felt a bit dozy. But, yeah, researchers haven't quite got a way to do that quite yet. But we do know that this cerebrospinal fluid, when it flushes out of the brain, it basically enters this cool like invisible network of tubes, which we call the lymphatic system. And so once that gets out into this lymphatic system, it can reenter the blood and eventually the waste products are kind of got rid of from the body.

据我所知，有些研究人员正在探索通过按摩面部和颈部的淋巴管来促进大脑液体排出的方法。

So what I do know is that some researchers are looking at ways we can boost the clearance of fluid from the brain by massaging the lymphatic vessels around your face and neck.

所以这就是社交媒体上很火的玉石滚轮或刮痧这类东西吗？

So this is very hot on social media, jade rolling or gua sha, that kind of thing?

可惜并不是社交媒体上看到的那种美容潮流。实际上这是一种非常特殊的面部和颈部按摩方式——必须说明这还只是在老鼠实验中。但研究人员发现，如果以特定方式按摩面部和颈部的这些血管，确实能促进大脑液体排出。我必须明确说明，目前还不清楚这是否会对认知产生影响，不过我采访的研究人员表示他们正在对此进行研究。听起来很有前景。

So it's not quite the the beauty fads that you see on social media, unfortunately. It's actually a very specific way of massaging the face and neck, and that was in mice I must add as well. But researchers are finding that if you massage those vessels in a certain way on the face and the neck then you can actually boost the clearance of fluid from the brain and we don't know if there's cognitive effects of this yet I must be very clear about that but I do know researchers that I spoke to said they're working on this right now. Sounds potentially promising.

相当于给你大脑这台天然洗衣机加了道手洗程序。

And a hand wash you add to the natural washing machine of your brain.

蒂姆，我们现在要深入探讨你洗衣机上的所有程序。我想说的是，卡丽莎最近为我们撰写了大量关于淋巴系统的文章。你知道吗，我们了解它已有数千年历史，但至今仍在揭示其功能，这真是令人惊叹。而且你在最近的一期封面专题中确实写过，对吧卡丽莎，关于它的运作方式实际上有助于预防像痴呆症这样的认知障碍。

We're going deep onto all the programs on your washing machine now Tim. I will just say that Carissa has written a lot more about the lymphatic system for us recently. Do you know we've known about it for millennia, but we're still only really just uncovering what it does. Amazing. And and you did write in a recent cover feature for us, didn't you, Carissa, about how the way that it works can actually help prevent cognitive conditions like dementia.

这篇文章非常有趣，我们会在节目笔记中附上链接。

It's a really interesting piece, so we're gonna link to that in our show notes.

最后，关于火星生命的故事又有了新进展。你可能记得上个月人们对杰泽罗陨石坑中一些带有被称为'豹斑'和'罂粟籽'奇特标记的岩石感到非常兴奋。

And finally, we've got another development in the story of life on Mars. You might remember that last month there was a lot of excitement about some rocks in Jezero Crater that had these unusual markings called leopard spots and poppy seeds.

是的，我记得很清楚，确实令人振奋。这些标记强烈暗示可能存在远古微生物活动。很难用其他方式解释这些图案，这太令人兴奋了。

Yes. I remember it well. Really exciting. Those markings hinted pretty strongly that there may have been ancient microbial activity. It's very difficult to explain these patterns in any other way, which is so exciting.

我们期待未来的样本返回任务能够证实这一点。

And we're hoping that a future sample return mission might be able to confirm that.

没错。与此同时，对火星生命的探索仍在继续——这次是寻找现存生命而非远古生命。我们的太空记者莱娅·克兰将为我们详细介绍这项新研究。莱娅，你好，欢迎。

That's right. And then in the meantime, the search for Martian life, this time living, not ancient life continues. And our space reporter, Leia Crane, is here to tell us all about a new line of inquiry. So, Leia, hello. Welcome.

能给我们讲讲这个发现吗？故事始于可能在火星上发现了一个液态水网络，对吧？

Can you tell us a bit about this story? And it begins with a potential discovery of a network of actual liquid water on Mars. Right?

是的。嗨。首先你需要明白的是，地球上和其他地方的永久冻土预计都会有这些极其微小的液态水细脉贯穿其中。就是这些微小的通道，肉眼不可见。它们只有几微米厚。

Yeah. Hi. So the first thing you have to understand is that all permafrost on Earth and elsewhere is expected to have these tiny, tiny veins of liquid water running through it. Just these little channels, not ones that you could see. They're microns thick.

但我们之前不太确定火星上的这些通道是否足够大以维持液态水，因为那里的温度远低于零度，而纯水在零摄氏度就会结冰。但幸运的是，火星上有大量盐分，它们溶解在水中可以显著降低冰点。所以这个由亚利桑那行星科学研究所的汉娜·塞兹摩尔领导的研究团队，计算了火星土壤中实际以液态形式在这些微小细脉中流动的比例，以及细脉可能的宽度，试图判断火星这些细脉中是否存在生命的可能性——就像地球各处冻土层中可能存在的那样。

But we were sort of not sure if they would be big enough on Mars to keep liquid water because temperatures there get way into the negatives and pure water freezes at zero Celsius. But thankfully, there's lots of salts on Mars and they dissolve into the water and they can lower its freezing point significantly. So this team, which was led by a researcher named Hannah Sizemore at the Planetary Science Institute in Arizona, calculated how much of the soil on Mars could be liquid actually running through these tiny veins and how wide the veins could be to try to figure out if there could be life in these veins on Mars as there could be where they are on Earth, which is all over the place.

那么研究团队最终发现了什么？

So what did the team find out then?

他们发现，正如他们所说，令人惊讶的是很容易达到土壤中含有5%以上液态水的标准——这是他们认为可能适合居住的基准值，而且通道直径至少有五微米——记得我说过这仍然非常微小。比最细的人发还要纤细。但这个尺寸足以让微生物浸没其中，对生命来说已经足够大了。

So they find out that it was surprisingly easy, as they said, to get soil with more than 5% liquid, which was sort of their benchmark for it being potentially habitable, and channels that are at least five microns in diameter, which remember I said is still very small. It's thinner than really fine human hair. But it's big enough that you could submerge a microbe in it, and that's big enough for life.

没错。我试着回忆微生物学知识。一个细菌细胞大约一微米。所以五微米的空间对它们来说相当宽敞，完全可以在里面活动。

Yeah. I'm trying to remember my microbiology here. I think a bacterial cell is about one micron. So, you at five microns, that's kind of roomy. They can do their thing in that.

是的。关键理念是不仅要有足够空间容纳微生物，还要能让营养物质和废物进出。所以存在尺寸要求、连通性要求，当然还有所需的液态水含量要求。

Yeah. The idea is that you would have enough space not just to submerge the microbes, but also to bring nutrients and waste in and out. So there's there's a size requirement, an interconnectedness requirement, and of course, an amount of liquid that you need.

所以他们是在说，火星能以这种方式维持散布各处并相互连接的液态水细脉网络，从而满足所有这些生命维持条件。

So they are saying then that Mars could support veins of liquid water in this way that are spread out and joined together in a way that would provide for all of that.

是的，他们就是这么说的。而且他们说这些矿脉甚至不在地表深处。我们在火星上看到冰和水的地方大多埋藏得极其深，我们根本无法触及。

Yeah. They are saying that. And they're saying that these veins aren't even that deep under the surface. A lot of the places where we see ice and water on Mars are buried super, super deep under the surface. We can't get to it.

但这些矿脉可能支持生命存在。当然，‘理论上可能’和‘实际存在’之间差距很大。存在许多困难，我们不确定温度是否过低，但这是有可能的。

But these veins could support life. Of course, the difference between plausibly could and actually does is pretty wide. There are difficulties. We don't know if the temperatures are just too low enough, but it is plausible.

我很喜欢你文章中引用的科罗拉多大学博尔德分校布鲁斯·雅科斯基的话。归根结底，基于这项研究及相关工作，生命存在于火星近地表并非不可能。这就像是科学家那种‘嗯，我对此有点小兴奋’的典型表态。

I love one of the quotes that you have in the story you wrote on this from Bruce Jakoski at the University of Colorado Boulder. It's the bottom line is that based on this and related work in particular, it's not impossible that life could exist in the Martian near surface. It feels like one of those statements that a scientist makes where it's like, yeah. I'm sort of a bit excited about this, maybe.

但我们别夸大其词。‘并非不可能’——这至少是个开始。那么如果火星上真存在这样的生命网络，我们能找到吗，莉亚？

But let's not overstate it. We'll take that. Not impossible. That's a start. So if life does exist in networks like this on Mars, can we go find it, Leia?

比如，寻找它的难度有多大？

Like, how easy would it be to look for it?

实际上会简单得出人意料。

It would actually be surprisingly easy.

很多

A lot of

当我报道这类新闻时，我常说：这里可能存在生命，但我们永远找不到。不过这次谢天谢地，如果确实存在，我们很可能发现它。2008年有艘叫凤凰号的着陆器登陆了火星。

the time when I report on stories like this, you know, I say, hey. There might be life here, but we'll never find it. Yeah. In this case, thankfully, if it is there, we could probably find it. There's this lander that landed on Mars in 2008 called Phoenix.

西摩尔博士和她的研究团队参考了凤凰号着陆器的土壤测量数据，发现这些网状脉络通道在纬度高于50度的地区可能非常丰富。低于这个纬度就太温暖了，但更高纬度地区可能存在这些液态脉络。如果火星有生命，这里绝对是最容易寻找的地方。

And these researchers, doctor Seismore and her colleagues, took into account the soil measurements from the Phoenix lander. And they found that these networks of channels of veins could be really abundant at latitudes higher than 50 degrees. Of course, lower than that, it's too warm, basically. But higher than that, you could have these liquid veins. And if there's life on Mars, they would be the easiest place to look for it by far.

可能只需挖掘地表下30厘米，根本不需要挖得很深。

It could be 30 centimeters under the surface. We really wouldn't have to dig very far.

这对探测车来说完全可行对吧？30厘米应该不算太难。

That sounds eminently doable for a rover. Right? 30 centimeters must not be that difficult.

是的，虽然目前火星上还没有能执行这个任务的设备，但未来完全有可能派出能挖掘30厘米深并采集脉络样本的探测器。

Yeah. We don't have any there right now that could do it, I don't think. But it is plausible that we could send something there that could dig down 30 centimeters and sample these veins.

这简直太不可思议了！感觉我们只需要广而告之：谁有火星机器人能稍微挖一下就能宣称发现生命？何乐而不为呢？

That sounds absolutely amazing. It feels like we just need to put the call out there. Anyone got a robot on Mars who could dig down just a little bit and claim the discovery of life? I mean, why not?

目前有没有正在推进的相关计划能实现这个目标？

Are there are there plans underway that could make that happen?

最大的问题在于，非凡的主张确实需要非凡的证据。所以我们无法仅凭火星车的测量数据就确认火星存在生命。我们的火星车很棒，非常出色，但它们的能力也有局限。

The big problem with that is that extraordinary claims do require extraordinary evidence. So we're not gonna confirm life on Mars with rover measurements. Our rovers are great. They're fabulous. But there are limits to what they can do.

要确认火星存在生命（只要不是角马之类的大型生物），我们必须把样本带回地球。是的，如果我们看到有东西在火星表面奔跑，那基本就能确认了——不过这种情况不可能发生。很可能是微生物。

In order to confirm life on Mars, as long as it's not a wildebeest or whatever, we're gonna have to bring those samples back. Yeah. If if we see something running across the surface, that seems confirmed. That's not going to happen. Gonna be microbes.

因此我们必须将样本带回地球，才能在这里的实验室进行研究，因为只有地球实验室才具备真正发现生命所需的设备。但问题是，尽管火星样本返回任务长期以来都是科研界的重点优先项目，现在这些任务却面临严重危机。原本有计划中的任务，但特朗普政府给NASA的预算申请彻底扼杀了该任务。无论最终预算如何，样本返回任务短期内都不太可能实现了。这对火星生命探索无疑是重大打击，无论这些生命以何种形式存在。

So we have to bring back samples to Earth so that we can look at them in laboratories here, because the laboratories here are where we have the equipment that can actually find them. The problem with that is that while Mars sample return has been a big priority for the research community for a long time, the missions are now in pretty serious danger. There was a mission planned, and the Trump administration's budget request for NASA completely scuppered that mission. Regardless of what ends up happening with that budget, it's feeling pretty unlikely that sample return is gonna happen anytime soon. So that's a fairly major blow to the hunt for life on Mars, regardless of what form it takes.

即使是那些豹斑纹、罂粟籽状的痕迹，或是这些矿脉中的微生物，没有样本返回，我们什么都无法确认。

Even if it's those those leopard spots or the poppy seeds or microbes in these veins, we're not gonna be able to confirm anything without sample return.

看来我们还得再满足于火星生命的蛛丝马迹一段时间了。

So we're just gonna have to be content with hints of life on Mars for a little while longer yet.

是啊。

Yeah.

本周节目就到这里。感谢嘉宾参与，也感谢各位听众。

That's all for this week. Thanks to our guests and to you for listening.

无论您在哪里观看或收听，都请给我们评价或评分。我们下周再见。再见。

Do give us a review or rating wherever you watch or listen. We'll be back next week. Goodbye.

拜拜。拜拜。

Bye. Bye.

本集节目由Welcom播客《当科学找到方法》赞助，该节目可在所有播客平台收听。

This episode was sponsored by Welcom's podcast, When Science Finds A Way, available on all podcast platforms.