801：一定是老鼠在作祟

因为这不仅仅是托德养了老鼠。

Because it's not just that Todd has rats.

顺便说一下，他的名字叫托德。

That's his name, by the way, Todd.

他养了12只。

He has 12.

它们整天自由活动，已经占领了他的客厅，他在那里设置了一个类似美国角斗士风格的障碍赛道，用细绳让老鼠从家具上荡来荡去。

They roam free all day, and they've taken over his living room, where he set up an American gladiator style obstacle course with tiny ropes for the rats to swing from furniture.

如果这是迪士尼电影，那会很神奇。

If this were a Disney movie, it'd be magical.

但如果托德是你的Tinder约会对象，你会举报他的个人资料。

But if Todd were your Tinder date, you'd report his profile.

关于托德的一些情况。

A little about Todd.

他39岁，是个作家，住在洛杉矶。

He's 39, a writer, living in LA.

他身材高大，相貌英俊，说他想找到一段真正的感情并安定下来。

He's tall, attractive, says he wants to find a real relationship and settle down.

据他的朋友说，他对这个选择感到非常痛苦，总是告诉他们自己会把老鼠处理掉，却始终下不了手。

According to his friends, he's really broken up over this choice, constantly telling them he's going to get rid of the rats but unable to pull the trigger.

他真的站在了人生的十字路口。

He's truly at a crossroads.

显然，我对他认为该走的那条路有着强烈的倾向。

Obviously, I have a strong bias for which road I think he should take.

那种路上，当你走路时，不会突然有只老鼠窜出来，擦过你的脚踝。

The kind of road that when you're walking, a rat doesn't suddenly come scurrying out, brushing against your feet.

我唯一不明白的是，为什么这件事对他来说这么难？

And the only thing I didn't understand, why was this so hard for him?

好吧。

Okay.

所以，请帮我理清一下思路。

So just help me walk me through it.

那么，你是怎么开始养老鼠的？

So how did it start with the rats?

我觉得，从某种奇怪的角度来说，每个人在疫情期间至少都迷上过一些奇怪的东西。

I think that the the rats in a weird way I think everybody has, like, at least one weird thing that they got into during the pandemic.

对有些人来说，可能是编织，或者一些奇怪的日本电视剧。

For some people, it was like knitting or, like, you know, a weird Japanese TV show.

对我而言，就是养了一大堆宠物老鼠。

For me, it was, you know, having a bunch of pet rats.

等等。

Wait.

所以，我明白了。

So so I see.

所以，你的意思是，这个决定只有在疫情期间才可能发生。

So, basically, you're saying this decision could only have happened during the pandemic.

百分之百。

A 100%.

疫情之前，我可不是那种喜欢老鼠的人。

Before the pandemic, I was not what what I you would call a rat person.

你知道的，我在纽约住了十年。

I, you know, I spent ten years living in New York.

我一直觉得老鼠是害虫，不是宠物。

I thought rats were pests, not pets.

我觉得它们在纽约人不想在公寓里见到的东西里，大概比臭虫高那么一点，或者低那么一点。

Like, they are, like, slightly above or below bedbugs, I guess, on, like, the New York things you don't ever want in your apartment list.

那大概是第一次封锁后的第三周。

It was probably three weeks into the pan into the the first lockdown.

我出去散步，回家时在公寓的停车场，看到一只特别小、特别可爱的老鼠，它正在爬行。

I was going on a walk, and when I got home in the parking lot to my apartment, there was the I saw this little tiny cute little rat, and he was crawling.

它并没有惊慌逃窜。

And it wasn't like scampering away.

它在缓慢爬行，后腿好像不听使唤了。

He was crawling and his back legs weren't working.

他几乎是用前肢拖着身体前进。

He was kind of like dragging his body with his front little arms.

那景象简直就像《拯救大兵瑞恩》里，一个受伤的士兵努力爬向安全地带。

It was like it almost looked like like out of saving private Ryan, like, just like a wounded soldier trying to carry himself to safety.

我感到很难过。

And I felt so bad.

这是我见过的最悲伤的事情之一，再加上当时我正独自一人、被封锁在家，进行着一次极度内省的散步。

It was like one of the saddest things I've ever seen combined with also being super, like, lonely and locked down and, like, just going on, like, a super introspective walk.

我当时就想，我要救下这只老鼠。

And I was like, I'm gonna save this rat.

我要把这只老鼠带 upstairs。

I'm gonna bring this rat upstairs.

我要好好照顾它，让它恢复健康。

I'm gonna nurse it back to health.

托德戴上手套，抱起老鼠，放进盒子里，做了个嫌恶的舞蹈动作，然后上了楼。

Todd put on a pair of gloves, picked up the rat, put it in a box, did the icky dance, then went upstairs.

首先发生的事是我打了动物保护协会的电话，我想着我会照顾这只老鼠，等明天早上他们来接走它。

The first thing that happened is I called the Humane Society because I was like, I'll take care of this rat until they can take him in, thinking I would do that the next morning.

他们立刻回应，电话那头的姑娘说：‘嗯。’

And they were like immediately, the the girl on the phone was like, yeah.

我们对老鼠什么都不做。

We don't do anything with rats.

如果你愿意，我可以帮你叫动物控制部门来处理它，但我们真的不帮老鼠做任何事。

Like, I can call animal control to get rid of it if you want, but we don't, like, do anything for rats.

等等。

Wait.

动物保护协会居然说：‘哇，好恶心。’

The the Humane Society is like, ew.

不要老鼠。

No rats.

对啊。

Yeah.

至少洛杉矶的那个，是的，他们一点都不人道。

The one at least the one in LA, yeah, they are not very humane.

那位女士还算善良，给了他一个老鼠救援组织的电话。

The woman was humane enough to give him the number of a rat rescue.

他打电话给一个叫香农的女士，她说很乐意收留他的老鼠，但她十天后才能回来，因为她外出旅行了。

He calls and talks to a woman named Shannon who says she'd love to take his rats, but she can't for ten days because she's out of town.

她问：‘你能撑到那时并让他活下来吗？’

She's like, can you handle it till then and keep it alive?

我说：‘当然可以。’

Was like, yeah.

当然我能。

Of course I can.

我对老鼠一无所知，但还是觉得太棒了。

Like, knowing nothing about rats or anything, I was like, awesome.

我们现在有个任务了。

We got a project now.

我们干吧。

Let's do it.

由于疫情，托德失业了。

Because of the pandemic, Todd had lost his job.

他大部分时间都坐在家里，无所事事。

He spent most days sitting at home with his wheels spinning.

于是，‘在香农回家前让老鼠活下去’成了他的新目标。

So project keep rat alive until Shannon gets home became his new focus.

不过，托德运气不错。

Todd was in luck though.

他带回家的那只老鼠不是流浪鼠。

The rat he took home wasn't a street rat.

它是一只被遗弃的宠物鼠。

It was a discarded pet rat.

虽然它们是同一物种，但流浪鼠和宠物鼠之间的区别，就像狼和狗之间的区别。

While they're the same species, the difference between street rats and pet rats is similar to wolves versus dogs.

然而，第一晚并不顺利。

Still, the first night did not go well.

托德害怕这只老鼠，而它似乎也害怕他。

Todd was afraid of the rat, and it seemed afraid of him.

它多次从纸箱里逃了出来。

It escaped the cardboard box it was in multiple times.

但很快，托德就从感到恶心转变为深深着迷。

But quickly, Todd went from being grossed out to engrossed.

他会搜索：‘我的老鼠为什么这么做？’

He'd Google, why does my rat do this?

然后花上数小时阅读各种关于老鼠行为的研究。

And lose himself for hours reading all sorts of rat behavioral studies.

此外，每只宠物鼠都不同。

Also, every pet rat is different.

因为它们都有不同的个性，就像人一样。

So because, like, they all have different personalities, much like people.

所以你会去鼠类的Reddit，或者叫Raddit，然后去谷歌搜索

And so, like, you'll go on, like, the rat Reddit or or Raddit as it's as it's called and, like, to, like, Google or

去搜索叫Raddit的网站？

to look up called Raddit?

它叫Raddit。

It's called Raddit.

他们有个不错的论坛。

They got a good one.

他们把这个做得相当不错。

They they locked that down pretty good.

这简直就是一场关于老鼠方方面面的速成课。

It was a real crash course into learning about everything about rats.

比如，你得给它找个伙伴。

Like, you have to get it a a buddy.

基本上，它们讨厌独处。

Basically, like, they hate being alone.

它们会感到孤独和沮丧。

They get lonely and depressed.

所以，我立刻就想，好吧。

And so, like, immediately, I was like, okay.

我得再买一只老鼠，大概十天后。

I gotta get another rat for, like, ten days.

或者那时候，已经是八天了。

Or at this point, was, like, eight.

于是我上了Craigslist，开始搜索出售的老鼠。

And so I went on Craigslist and started looking up, like, you know, like, rats for sale.

我找到一个卖老鼠的人，每只三美元，就去了他家。

So I found a guy who was selling rats for, like, three dollars a piece, and I went to that dude's house.

他说道，好的。

And he's like, okay.

这是我的两只老鼠。

Here's the two rats I have.

你想要哪一只？

Which one do you want?

有两只可爱的小老鼠，还有一个小鱼缸。

And there's two little cute rats and, like, a little fish tank thing.

我当时想，我都无所谓。

And I was like, I don't care.

你知道的，你不想要哪一只？

Like, you know, which which one do you not want?

他说道：对我来说都一样。

He's like, well, it doesn't matter to me.

我就把另一只喂我的蛇吧。

I'm just gonna feed the other one to my snake.

我当时想：好吧，我可不想让另一只老鼠的血沾在我手上。

And I was like, well, now I I don't want the other rat's blood on my hands.

我还是两个都买下来吧。

Like, I'll just buy them both.

所以那时，我有了三只老鼠。

So so at that point, I had three rats.

而且，显然很快地，它们就成了我最好的朋友，也是我唯一的朋友，因为当时是封锁期。

And, obviously, very quickly, I was becoming like they were definitely my best friends and my only friends because, again, it was lockdown.

当这位叫香农的女士探亲回来，准备把那只最初的老鼠送回她的啮齿动物救助中心时，我已经不想把它交出去了。

And so at the point that this lady Shannon got back from visiting her family and was ready to take the original rat in to her rodent rescue, I no longer wanted to give him up.

事实上，她对我的老鼠数量已经增加到三只并不感到惊讶。

And in fact, she was not surprised that my rat culture had had already multiplied to three.

她说，这事儿就是这样发生的。

And she's like, that's how it happens.

然后我说，不。

And then I was like, no.

等等。

Wait.

她说，对啊。

She's like, yeah.

就像，我

Like, I

她真的说，就是这样发生的。

She she literally says, that's how it happens.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

她在笑。

She was laughing.

她就说，对啊。

She was like, yeah.

这简直就是每个养鼠人的经历。

That's literally every rat owner.

比如，你一开始养一只，然后突然间，你就养了一大堆。

Like, you start with one and then all of a sudden, like, you have a ton.

她告诉他另一个可以获得更多老鼠的啮齿动物救助中心。

She tells him about another rodent rescue where he can get even more rats.

托德说

Todd says

我觉得三只我可以接受，香农。

I think I'm okay with three, Shannon.

非常感谢。

Thanks a lot.

我挂了电话，立刻打开Instagram，查看南湾啮齿动物救援组织。

I hang up the phone, immediately go on Instagram, look at the South Bay rodent rescue.

当天晚些时候，我又有了两只老鼠。

And later that day, I had I had two more rats.

我已经有五只了。

I was up to five.

没错。

Yep.

我敢肯定，就在那周晚些时候，我们有了八只。

And I'm pretty sure I wanna say later that week, we got to eight.

我的意思是，如果你把所有我养过的老鼠加起来，包括已经去世的和被领养的，我觉得我现在大概养过35只老鼠了，这简直太疯狂了。

Like, if you if you added up all the rats I've had between the ones that have died and the ones that got foster, I I feel I probably have, like, 35 rats at this point, which is pretty insane.

35只老鼠？

35 rats?

实际上是37只。

Actually, it was 37.

有克劳德、珍珠、亚瑟、马索、伯蒂、露西、亨利、鲍比、凯撒、伦纳德、奥利弗、哈丽特、卢克、阿曼达、朱利安、罗杰、里基、博、佩内洛普、甜蜜路易、戴夫、凯尔西、阿隆佐、以伯尼泽、埃迪、贝丝、斯文、奥斯莫、杰克、黛利拉、克劳斯、奥尔德斯特、埃莉诺、格蒂、约书亚、海迪和彼得。

There's Claude, Pearl, Arthur, Marceau, Bertie, Lucy, Henry, Bobby, Caesar, Leonard, Oliver, Harriet, Luke, Amanda, Julian, Roger, Ricky, Beau, Penelope, Sweet Lou, Dave, Kelsey, Alonzo, Ebenezer, Eddie, Beth, Sven, Osmo, Jake, Delilah, Claus, Aldister, Eleanor, Gertie, Joshua, Heidi, and Peter.

他并不是同时养着所有这些老鼠。

He didn't have them all at once.

老鼠只能活几年，所以他最多同时养过14只。

Rats only live a few years, so the most he's ever had at one time was 14.

当我跟朋友说起托德的老鼠时，他们问我，他没事吧？

When I've told friends about Todd's rats, they've asked me, is he okay?

比如，他是不是精神崩溃了什么的？

Like, is he having a breakdown or anything?

答案是坚决的：不。

And the answer is emphatically, no.

他很好。

He's fine.

但他刚丢了工作，在疫情时期的就业市场上很难找到新工作。

But he just lost his job, and he was having a hard time getting motivated to find another one in the pandemic job market.

而且，他怎么能呢？

And besides, how could he?

他太忙于爱上老鼠了。

He was so busy falling in love with rats.

我把老鼠看作害虫，疾病的携带者。

I see rats as vermin, carriers of disease.

一想到它们我就觉得恶心。

Just thinking of them skeeves me out.

但托德说，我只是不了解它们。

But Todd says, I just don't know them.

他像一位自豪的父母一样，告诉我一些关于老鼠的事情，这些事改变了他对老鼠的看法。

Like a proud parent, he told me things about rats that converted him.

我得说，我真不知道这些动物竟然能如此聪明。

And I gotta say, I actually had no idea how intelligent these animals could be.

这正是吸引托德的部分原因。

That's part of what hooked Todd.

他观察到

He observed

老鼠就像对人类了解它们知道什么这件事着迷一样。

Rats are, like, obsessed with what we know about what they know.

它们根本不想让我们知道它们知道什么。

Like, they never want us to know what they know.

这就像一种心理博弈的层次。

It's there's, like, the mind game level.

这就像中情局级别的心理博弈，它们希望我们对它们所掌握的信息或能力一无所知。

It's like CIA level mind games of, like, they wanna make us keep us in the dark about whatever information they have or whatever they know how to do.

所以，它们非常 secretive。

So, like, they're very secretive.

它们喜欢藏东西、囤东西，从不希望被发现做任何调皮的事。

They love hiding stuff and stashing stuff, and they never wanna be caught doing anything naughty.

对吧？

Right?

起初，托德会给他的老鼠吃零食，它们会把零食拿走，藏在公寓各处的隐蔽角落。

In the beginning, Todd would give his rats treats, which they'd take and stash in hiding spots all over his apartment.

每天晚上，他都得清理二十到二十五个藏匿点。

Every night, he'd have to clean 20 to 25 little stashes.

托德开始感到怀疑。

Todd started to get suspicious.

他给它们的零食没这么多。

He was giving them treats, but not this many treats.

于是，他设置了一个朝向零食抽屉的GoPro摄像头，想弄清楚到底发生了什么。

So he set up a GoPro facing the treat drawer to find out what was happening.

果然，这些老鼠学会了如何站在抽屉下方，团队合作将抽屉推开了。

Sure enough, the rats had figured out how to open the treat drawer by standing underneath it and pushing it open as a team.

它们偷走零食后，还会把抽屉关上。

They'd steal treats, then close it shut.

托德立刻把零食移到了中间的抽屉里。

Todd immediately moved the treats up to the middle drawer.

第二天，他走进厨房，发现中间的抽屉是开着的，所有零食都不见了。

The next day, he came into the kitchen, the middle drawer was open, and all the treats were gone.

他回看了GoPro的录像，试图弄清楚发生了什么。

He reviewed the GoPro footage to try to figure out what happened.

结果发现，它们三只老鼠想到了一个办法：把烤箱紧贴着这个橱柜推过去。

Come to find out that they three of them had figured out that if they wedged them so the oven is next to this cabinet.

它们把自己卡在烤箱上，用小小的爪子卡在抽屉和柜子之间，把抽屉撬开一点点，然后把脸伸进去，用脸部继续把抽屉往外顶。

If they wedged themselves against the oven, their little tiny fingers, they were able to kind of like just wedge in between the drawer and get it out just enough that then they could stick their face in, use their face to wedge it out more.

突然间，它们就能爬进这个中间抽屉，再次开始偷食物了。

And then all of a sudden, they were able to climb into this middle drawer and start stealing food again.

但后来它们发现，无法关上第二层抽屉，因为没有方法能把抽屉推回去。

But then they figured out that they can't close the second drawer because there's no way to push it close.

它们一直关着底层的

They've been closing the the bottom

抽屉。

drawer.

如果抽屉没关上，那就意味着它们被抓到了。

And if it's not closed, then that means they're caught.

现在你可是彻底被抓到了。

Now you're now you're totally caught.

所以，我不知道它们开了什么小鼠会议，但它们不知怎么想出了一个主意：与其因为第二层抽屉开着、偷吃食物而被抓，不如把第二层抽屉里所有的食物和零食都拿回第一层、底层的抽屉里。

So then, I don't know what little rat meeting they had, but they somehow came up with the idea that instead of getting caught with the second drawer open and that they'd been stealing food, they would take all of the food and treats from the second drawer and put it back into the first drawer, the bottom drawer.

这样，当我发现时，就会以为它们是在帮我把东西放回正确的抽屉里。

So then hopefully when I would find it, would think that they were, like, helping me put it back in the correct drawer.

托德打开底层抽屉，发现所有的零食都在那里。

Todd opens the bottom drawer, and the treats are all there.

我跟托德聊老鼠时学到的另一件事是，它们能跳得特别高，像兔子一样。

Another thing I learned talking to Todd about rats is that they can jump incredibly high, like bunnies.

托德在设置他的GoPro摄像头，想弄清楚他的老鼠是怎么爬进那些高柜子时，发现了这一点。

Todd learned this when he set up his GoPro to figure out how his rats were getting into these high cubbies.

录像显示，它们会爬到厨房桌上，然后跃起四英尺高。

The footage showed they were crawling onto the kitchen table and launching themselves four feet in the air.

托德知道它们的秘密，但它们不知道他已知情。

Todd knows their secret, but they don't know he knows.

几天后，他醒了过来。

A few days later, he wakes up.

我走进客厅，看到克劳德正跑过来要干这事。

And I walked into the living room, and I saw Claude, and he was running over to go do this.

然后他停了下来，僵在原地。

And then he's kinda stopped and froze.

他被逮到在干坏事了。

He had been busted doing something naughty.

他走到桌子边缘，我看着他，他转过头来看了我一眼，又转过去看看那些高柜，再回头看看我。

And he walked up to the edge of the table, and I looked at him, and he kinda turned and looked at me, and he turned and looked at the cubbies, and he turned and looked at me again.

然后他跳了起来，就像那样直直地跳了一下，像是最悲伤的小跳跃，直接 belly flop 一样摔在地上。

And then he jumped, like, straight up just like a couple like, the saddest little jump and just belly flopped onto the ground.

他本质上是想骗我，让我以为他跳不了这个高度，而实际上这对他来说轻而易举——我已经在录像里多次看到他们做到过。

He essentially tried to trick me into thinking that he could not make this jump that, like, very easily could be done, and I have seen them do now on camera many, many times.

我当时想，刚才那事真的发生了？

I was like, did that just happen?

这只老鼠刚刚是想骗我，让我以为他做不到我明明知道他能做的事？

Like, did this rat just try to trick me into thinking he couldn't do something I know he can do?

我跟一位啮齿动物行为专家聊了聊这些事。

I talked to a rodent behavior specialist about all of this.

他说托德的观察基本是对的。

He says Todd's got it mostly right.

他不会直接说老鼠是在故意骗托德，但他表示，老鼠知道什么行为能从主人那里换来零食，也会据此调整自己的行为。

He wouldn't go so far as to say the rats were trying to trick Todd, but he said that rats know what will or won't get them treats from their owner, and they'll behave accordingly.

托德所解读的意图，实际上是老鼠对他在提供线索时的细微变化的感知。

What Todd is reading as intent is actually the nuance with which the rats can read the cues he's giving.

当那位啮齿动物专家告诉我它们有多敏锐时，我感到很惊讶。

I was surprised when the rodent guy told me how perceptive they are.

如果你压力大，老鼠能闻出来。

If you're stressed, a rat can smell that.

它们还会观察你的姿势。

They also study your posture.

它们会解读你的面部表情。

They read your facial expressions.

它们能察觉到我们彼此都注意不到的细节。

They can detect things about us that we can't even see in each other.

而且它们是社会性动物。

And they're social animals.

如果你喜欢它们，又不打算伤害它们，它们就会想整天和你玩。

If you like them and aren't trying to kill them, they wanna play all day.

它们很喜欢，这一点托德注意到了。

They enjoy it, which Todd noticed.

这简直是不间断的娱乐。

It was nonstop entertainment.

它们总是在搞些什么。

They are always up to something.

而且，它们非常温柔。

And also, like, they're so loving.

它们简直就是你可能拥有的最温柔的宠物之一。

Like, they're just, like they're one of the most, like, loving creatures you could ever have as a pet.

它们就是对你着迷。

Like, they just, like, are obsessed with you.

等等。

It's like Wait.

好的。

Okay.

这是我所不了解的老鼠的另一面。

This is the side of rats I do not know about.

没人谈论老鼠。

Like, no one talks about rats.

它们非常温柔。

They're so loving.

所以你能帮我 convincing 我吗？我真的需要你让我相信这是真的。

So can you just, like I need you to I I need you to convince me that that's true.

这很公平。

That's fair.

这完全能理解。

That's totally understandable.

但就它们的温柔本性而言，它们总是想过来拥抱你、亲你、舔你。

But as far as, like, their loving nature is like they just, like, constantly wanna come cuddle and kiss you and give you little licks.

而且，我完全承认，我在养宠物鼠这件事上已经走得太远了。

And, like, this is so I fully admit that, like, I am, like, pretty far off the deep end into, like, pet rat ownership.

但还有一种我还没做到的层次，就是很多人会让老鼠帮他们清洁牙齿之类的，这对我来说太恶心了。

But there's still, like, another level that I haven't, like, sunk to yet, which is, like, a lot of people let their rats, like, clean their teeth and stuff, which is, like, disgusting to me.

但老鼠喜欢给你梳理毛发，因为那就像拥抱和亲吻。

But rats love to groom you because that is, like, hugging and kissing.

我觉得我现在身边全是吃鼻屎的。

I think that I got a lot of booger eaters right now.

它们总想钻进我的鼻子，试图清理我的鼻屎，天哪，别这样。

They just always wanna get in my nose and try to, like, clean my boogers, which is, like, dude, stop.

这太恶心了。

That is, like, disgusting.

等等。

Wait.

你你

You you

你有一句话。

have a line.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

我确实会。

I do.

我确实会。

I do.

嗯。

Yeah.

我不会让他们帮我清洁牙齿或鼻屎，至于耳朵，我也不希望它们爬进我的耳朵里，但当它们试图这么做时，其实挺可爱的，因为你能听到它们小小的吱吱声和嗅闻声，真的很可爱。

I will not let them clean my teeth or boogers or the ear thing is, like, I don't want them crawling inside my ear, but it is really cute when they try to because, like, you hear the little squeaks and sniffs, and that's pretty cute.

但一旦它们开始试图钻进你的耳朵里清洁，你就得说：别闹了。

But then once they start trying to get into your ear to clean it, it's like, dude, stop.

那太恶心了。

Like, that's disgusting.

想到托德被老鼠舔舐，让我想起了他的处境。

The idea of Todd being groomed by rats brings me back to his predicament.

什么时候你会想到，好吧。

When does the thought, okay.

如果我想拥有爱情和一段关系，我就得把这些老鼠赶走。

I need to get rid of these rats if I wanna have love and a relationship.

你是什么时候产生这个想法的？

When does that occur to you?

是的。

Yeah.

对我来说，我觉得当疫情开始真正缓和时，尤其是最后一个变种之后，感觉事情又开始重新开放了。

So for me, I feel like as the pandemic started kind of, like, actually winding down bit, I think, like, post, like, the last variant, it felt like, you know, things were opening up again.

人们又开始，嗯，我好久没去参加派对了，现在又去参加派对，认识新的人。

People were you know, I was going to parties again for the first time in a while and, like, meeting people at parties.

我想我当时在朋友的派对上，那一刻突然出现了——我在派对上认识了一个女孩，我们聊得很投机，互相调情。

I'm like, I think I was at a friend's party, and the moment kind of occurred, I was I met a a girl at this party, and we really hit it off, and we were flirting.

然后我们交换了联系方式，之后一直保持联系，她后来主动提议要不要一起喝一杯。

And then we exchanged numbers, and then she we kinda kept talking, and then she inquired about potentially getting a drink.

所以我们在这场派对后去喝了点东西。

So we got a drink after this party.

当派对接近尾声、酒吧要打烊时，你知道的，就像任何人一样，你会重拾旧习惯。

And then as things were winding down and the bar was closing, you know, I think like anybody, you fall into old habits.

你心想，好吧。

You're like, okay.

你想去我家吗？

Do you wanna go back to my place?

她回答：好啊。

And she's like, yeah.

那一刻就像《第六感》里的凯撒·索泽时刻，我突然恍然大悟。

And, like, it was like a like a Kaiser Soze moment where all of a sudden my head was like, oh my god.

等等。

Wait a minute.

那时，我公寓里有12只老鼠。

I have, at that point, 12 rats in my apartment.

我根本就没想过，我不能带这个人回家，因为我的公寓里全是老鼠。

Like, it had not it had not even occurred to me, like, I can't bring this person home to an apartment full of rats.

我脑子里第一个冒出来的想法是：我该怎么向她解释，提前打个预防针，再带她去我家？

I was like, the first thing that rushed through my mind is like, how do I explain this to her to preface this before we go to my apartment?

但很快我就意识到，根本没法解释为什么你家里有12只老鼠。

And, like, very quickly, was like, there is no way to explain having 12 rats in your apartment.

它们一路上都待在他的车里。

They were in his car on the way home.

托德转向那个女人说

Todd turns to the woman and says

其实，我很抱歉。

Actually, I'm really sorry.

我撒了个谎，说我很累，明天一早有事，所以这个女孩可能以为我对你没兴趣，有点犹豫了，但事实上，我是不想让她接触到一个满是老鼠的公寓。

I lied and said, I'm I'm actually really, really tired and I have an early morning tomorrow, like and so, like, this girl probably thought, like, I was, like, you know, like, not that into her having second thoughts when in reality, she goes, I don't wanna expose her to a rat filled apartment.

他送她回车里，之后他们再也没见过面。

He takes her back to her car, and they never see each other again.

我记得那天晚上躺在床上，想着：这大概就是养鼠生涯的终结了。

I remember laying in bed that night being like, well, this is probably the end of, like, rat ownership.

如果我们又要开始见人了，生活正慢慢恢复正常，这种事你根本没法向别人解释。

Like, if we're gonna be, like, meeting people again, life is kind of starting to get back to normal, this is not something that you can explain to somebody.

托德试图把老鼠送走，在网上发布了信息，但每次到了最后一刻，他又反悔了。

Todd's tried to get rid of the rats, posted them online, but then every time, he ends up backing out at the last minute.

以至于他已经被多个洛杉矶的养鼠群组拉黑了。

So much so that he's been banned from multiple online LA rat groups.

三个半月前，有一位女士要来领养它们，我真的很抱歉。

Three and a half weeks ago, I had a woman who was coming to adopt them who, like, I feel really bad.

她从西米谷开车赶来，提前半小时就到了，我当时说：真的很抱歉。

She drove all the way from Simi Valley in, like, a half hour before, and I was like, I'm so sorry.

我做不到。

I can't do this.

我我真的得留下它们。

Like, I I I I gotta keep them.

我真的非常抱歉。

I'm really, really sorry.

我提出给她付油钱，用威瑞莫，但她却说不用。

I offered to, like, Venmo her for her gas, but she was like, no.

别放在心上。

Don't worry about it.

随它吧。

Whatever.

但没错，真的很难把它们送走。

But, yeah, there's it's really hard to get rid of.

我试过很多次了。

I I I've tried quite a bit.

这真的很困难。

It's it's tough.

天哪。

Oh, man.

我不认为你能做到。

I I don't think you're gonna be able to do it.

我知道，但我必须这么做。

I know, but I have to.

你为什么必须这么做？

Why do have to?

你为什么必须这么做？

Why do you have to?

这绝对不是一种可持续的生活方式。

This is definitely not a sustainable way of living life.

托德告诉我，他计划在一个月内把所有老鼠都处理掉。

Todd told me he was planning on getting rid of all of his rats within a month.

好的。

Okay.

嗨，托德。

Hi, Todd.

你好。

Hi.

好吧。

So alright.

自从我们上次聊天已经四个月了。

So it's been four months since we last talked.

真的已经四个月了吗？

Has it really been four months?

已经四个月了。

It's been four months.

嗯，差几天就四个月了。

Well, minus, like, a few days.

我太想知道答案了。

I'm dying to know.

你把老鼠送人了吗？

Have you given away the rats?

我没有。

I have not.

我觉得我取得了一些进展，因为我已经下定决心不再养更多老鼠了，我认为这是重要的一步，是第一步。

I have, I feel like, made some progress in that I have committed to not getting any more rats or any new rats, which I think is a a big step, a first step.

不幸的是，我现在只剩下三只了。

I'm down to three now, unfortunately.

你只剩下三只老鼠了。

You're down to three rats.

只剩下三只老鼠了。

Down to three rats.

是的。

Yeah.

由于托德在同一时间得到了大部分老鼠，它们也差不多在同一时间去世了。

Since Todd got most of them around the same time, many of them died around the same time.

这很难受。

It's been hard.

当他有想再养更多老鼠的冲动时，他正在主动克制自己。

He's actively restraining himself when he has the urge to get more rats.

这需要很强的自律。

That's that takes discipline.

你离放弃最近的一次是什么时候？

What was the closest you came?

大概一周前。

Like, a a week ago.

天啊，那只老鼠真的超可爱。

Man, there was a really cute rat.

嗯。

Yeah.

大概一周前，有一只老鼠，和我最喜爱的老鼠——我第一只老鼠克劳德（Claude）——属于同一个品种，克劳德已经去世了，那只老鼠简直太可爱了，是我见过最棒的小老鼠。

There was a there was a rat, like, a week ago that was came from the same, like, breed as one of my favorite rat, my my first rat, Claude, that died that was just like, oh, he's the cutest and best little rat.

有一家啮齿动物救援组织发了一段特别可爱的小视频，我当时就想：没错。

And there was, like, a really cute video that one of the rodent rescues posted, and I was like, yeah.

他正在等待领养。

He's up for adoption.

我当时想，四只和三只也没多大区别。

I was like, man, four isn't that different than three.

也许我就再养一只，然后看看情况会怎样。

Maybe I'll just get, like, one more and then, like, see where that goes.

但那只是一只年轻的老鼠。

But he was a young rat.

我当时想，如果我再养一只年轻的，那当另外三只去世后，我就得给它找个伙伴，这样就变成两只了。

I was like, if I get a fourth one that's young, then I'm gonna have to get him a buddy when the other three die, and then now we're at two.

然后，你知道接下来会发生什么。

And then, like, you know where this goes from there.

就像这样，情况会很快失控。

Like, it's just like it spirals out of control pretty quickly.

那他为什么最终决定不再养老鼠了？

So why is he finally letting go of his rats?

什么变了？

What changed?

我们第一次通话后，他开始在约会应用上向女性坦白自己养老鼠的事。

After our first call, he started opening up to women on dating apps about his rat ownership.

令他惊讶的是，至少有一半女性对此完全不在意。

To his surprise, at least half were totally cool with it.

他甚至带了四位约会对象回家见老鼠。

He even brought four dates home to meet the rats.

进展得非常顺利。

It went great.

他一直以为的巨大障碍——老鼠还是爱情——其实根本不是问题，这让他开始反思自己最初为何如此羞于承认自己是个养鼠人。

This huge obstacle he'd invented, rats or love, it wasn't actually problem, which made him look at why he was so embarrassed about being a rat guy in the first place.

我觉得我当时更羞于和愧疚于自己整体的状态和所处的境地。

I think I was more embarrassed and ashamed of being in general who I was and where I was at that point.

显然，像疫情这样的事，让围绕着我身份的一切都暂停了。

Obviously, like the pandemic, like, it just, like, everything that my identity was wrapped around had been paused.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我是真的喜欢那些老鼠。

Like, I I love those rats.

别误会。

Do not get me wrong.

它们超级有趣。

And they are super fun.

但我想你也可以说，我其实是用养老鼠来逃避生活中其他的问题。

But I think also, you know, you could argue that I was using rat ownership as a way of avoiding addressing other problems in life.

因为双重打击就在于，好吧。

Because I that's like the double whammy is like, okay.

我并没有把所有时间都花在这个奇怪的爱好上。

I'm not pouring all this time into this weird hobby.

这意味着我必须把时间投入到恢复事业、处理个人生活、改善感情生活，真正认真对待这些事情上。

That means I do have to pour it into, you know, getting my career back on track, addressing my personal life, addressing my love life, and actually, like, taking those things serious.

我不再有这个绝佳的借口来逃避这些问题了。

I don't have this, like, great excuse anymore to avoid them.

托德正在采取措施，迈向没有老鼠的生活。

Todd's taking steps to move towards a life without rats.

他拆下了所有被老鼠啃坏边角的画和照片，并换上了新的艺术品。

He's taken down all the paintings and pictures the rats chewed the edges of and is replacing them with new art.

老鼠毁掉了他所有的植物。

The rats destroyed all his plants.

他正在购买新的植物。

He's buying new ones.

他频繁地出去约会。

And he's been going out on lots of dates.

他对新生活感到充满希望。

He feels hopeful about his new life.

不过他确实提到，当他出去买新植物时，也许会看到一只新老鼠，然后也把它带回家。

Though he did say, when he's out buying new plants, maybe he'll see a new rat and get that too.

埃尔玛·贝克，她是这个节目的制片人，对我们老鼠来说也是真正的朋友。

Elma Baker, she's a producer on this show and a real one to us rats.

接下来。

Coming up.

没有适合老老鼠的国度。

No country for old rats.

我们将探访一个不知怎的彻底清除了老鼠的地方。

We visit a vast place that has somehow gotten rid of rats.

稍后从芝加哥公共广播电台继续我们的节目。

That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.

这是艾拉·格拉斯的《美国生活》。

This is American Life from Ira Glass.

今天的节目主题必须是‘老鼠在脑中’。

Today's program must be Rats on the Brain.

我今天的联合主持人是纽约街头的老鼠，雷吉和蕾切尔。

My co host today, New York street rats, Reggie and Rachel.

你好。

Hello.

嘿。

Hey.

嘿。

Hey.

嘿。

Hey.

在这儿。

Here.

哦，你们啊。

Oh, you guys.

欢迎回到下半场。

Welcome back to the second half.

我们已经进入节目的第二幕。

We have arrived at act two of our program.

第二幕，大袋子理论。

Act two, the big bag theory.

就像我们在节目开始时讨论的那样，现任纽约市长亚当斯上任初期，他和他的团队宣布向老鼠开战。

So like we were talking about at the beginning of the show, early on in the administration of the current mayor of New York, mayor Adams, he and his rats are declared a war on rats.

但这个项目中有点荒谬的一点是，纽约市老鼠如此之多的原因其实非常明显。

But one thing about that entire project that's kind of absurd is that one reason that there are so many rats in New York City is just completely obvious.

这事儿就摆在明面上，一点都不复杂。

It's just out in the open, not complicated at all.

没错。

That's right.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Right.

这是种族歧视。

It's racism.

哦，不。

Oh, no.

对不起。

I'm sorry.

不。

No.

是塑料袋。

It's plastic bags.

是的。

Yeah.

那些袋子。

The bags.

不好意思。

Excuse me.

我。

Me.

嗯。

Yeah.

塑料袋。

Plastic bags.

嗯。

Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

袋子。

The bag.

嗯。

Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

这就是问题所在。

That's the thing.

纽约人把垃圾放在塑料袋里。

New Yorkers put out their garbage in plastic bags.

如果你在纽约待过一天以上，你就见过这些。

And if you've ever visited the city for more than a day, you've seen these.

它们晚上就放在人行道上。

They're on the sidewalk at night.

一堆堆的，绵延整个街区。

Just huge stacks of them just stretching down the block.

每天大约有800万磅的食物垃圾。

It's about 8,000,000 pounds of food waste every day.

这相当于五个行政区的每个人——无论男女老少或非二元性别者——每人一磅，而且这也是大量的老鼠食物。

That's one pound for every man, woman, child, and nonbinary person in the five boroughs, and it is also a lot of rat food.

每个街区都像自助餐，你说：天哪。

It's like a buffet on every block, and you're saying, oh, no.

别吃自助餐的食物。

Don't eat the buffet food.

撕开塑料垃圾袋很难吗？

And is it very hard tearing into a plastic garbage bag?

不难。

No.

走路很难吗？

Is it hard to walk?

好吧。

Alright.

好吧。

Alright.

我明白了。

Point taken.

好的。

Okay.

那么，为什么全国最大的城市会决定做如此荒谬且适得其反的事情呢？

So why, why, why would the biggest city in the country decide to do something so absurd and counterproductive?

我们的制片人之一，艾克·斯里兹·孔多拉加，对此进行了调查。

One of our producers, Ike Sries Condoraga, looked into that.

情况并非一直如此。

It wasn't always this way.

纽约人过去常常使用奥斯卡·脏鬼风格的金属垃圾桶，配有紧密的盖子。

New Yorkers used to take out their trash in Oscar the Grouch style metal cans with tightly fitting lids.

这些垃圾桶随处可见，大多在使用，但没人喜欢它们。

The cans were ubiquitous, mostly worked, but nobody liked them.

以下是过去你倒垃圾的方式。

Here's how you used to have to take out the trash.

你会把未处理的垃圾放进金属桶里。

You'd put your raw refuse in a metal can.

清洁工人会把它拖到卡车后面，用力敲打以倒出垃圾。

A sanitation worker would drag it to the back of the truck, banging it loudly to empty it out.

纽约人，许多人没有水管，只好自己清理那些发臭的金属垃圾桶。

Where New Yorkers, many without hoses, were left to clean out their smelly metal cans.

这并不怎么样。

It wasn't great.

然后在六十年代末，未来降临了。

Then in the late sixties, the future arrived.

美国把人送上了月球，而且

America put a man on the moon and

答案就在这里，各位。

Here's the answer, folks.

Glad牌垃圾袋。

New Glad trash bags.

它们防臭、防洒漏。

They're odor proof, scatter proof.

非常坚固，完全防漏。

So strong, they're leak proof.

这是垃圾时代的终结。

It's the end of trashy trash.

真不错。

That's neat.

塑料垃圾袋首次实现大规模生产。

Plastic trash bags were mass produced for the first time.

纽约市市长约翰·林赛看到了一个轻松赢得政治声誉的机会。

New York City mayor John Lindsay saw an opportunity for an easy political win.

他于1969年5月8日召开了一场新闻发布会。

He called a press conference on 05/08/1969.

记者们聚集在市政厅的蓝色房间，墙上挂着一个垃圾袋。

Reporters gathered in the blue room at City Hall, a garbage bag hung on the wall.

林赛市长宣布了一项新的实验性计划，允许纽约市六个社区的居民将垃圾袋直接放在路边过夜。

And mayor Lindsay announced plans for a new experimental program that would allow New Yorkers in half a dozen neighborhoods to drop trash bags directly on the curb overnight.

市长表示，他想看看纸袋和塑料垃圾袋是否能减少噪音、异味、垃圾散落，加快垃圾收集速度，并改善环卫工人的工作条件。

The mayor said he wanted to see if paper and plastic garbage bags could reduce noise, odor, litter, speed up garbage collection, and improve conditions for sanitation workers.

环卫工会全力支持，但并非所有人都这么高兴。

The sanitation union was all in, but not everyone was so glad.

鲍比·科里根记得当时他身在何处。

Bobby Corrigan remembers where he was.

如今，他是一位世界知名的啮齿动物专家。

These days, he's a world renowned rodentologist.

但那时，他正在法明代尔州立大学修读害虫管理入门课程。

But back then, he was taking an intro to pest management class at SUNY Farmingdale.

他的教授要求全班同学思考市长最近的这项公告。

His professor asked the class to consider the mayor's recent announcement.

我记得他给我们上了一课，讲的就是这个事件，他说：‘我希望你们写一篇作业。’

I remember him giving us a lesson about that event, and he said, I want you to write a homework lesson.

你们觉得把垃圾装进塑料袋会对城市的鼠群产生什么影响？

What do you think this is going to do for the rat population of the city to put trash in plastic bags?

这会带来什么后果？

What will this do?

就连害虫防治101课的学生都能猜到会发生什么。

Even the students in pest control one zero one could tell what would happen.

很明显，如果我们这么做，城市就会变得像一个动物园一样。

The writing was on the wall that if we do this, we're gonna be literally as if it was a zoological garden.

我们居然要试图饲养这些动物。

We're gonna try to grow these animals for some reason.

鲍比经常回想起那一刻。

Bobby thinks back on this moment often.

在这部电影的《终结者》版本中，也就是叫《终结者：鼠城》的版本，新鼠城的人类幸存者会派鲍比冲上讲台，把林赛市长手中的袋子打掉。

In the Terminator version of this movie, which would be called ex Terminator, the human survivors of New Rat City would send Bobby back to dive in front of the podium and knock the bag out of mayor Lindsay's hand.

如果我当时坐在观众席里，或者任何一位害虫防治专业人士在场，我们都会喊：等等，等等，停下。

If I was there sitting in the audience or any pest professional, we all would have went, woah, woah, stop.

我们后排有问题要问。

We have questions back here in the back row.

停下，停下。

Stop, stop.

我会站起来说，这将是公共卫生和生活质量上的巨大错误，必须停止，需要用不同的方法重新思考整个问题。

My message would have I would have stood up and say, this is going to be a colossal mistake in public health and a colossal mistake in quality of life, and it needs to be stopped and rethink this whole thing with different approaches.

这一时刻在纽约市老鼠种群的历史中有多关键？

How pivotal was this moment in the history of the New York City rat population?

我觉得这简直是决定性的。

I think I think it was everything.

我觉得这把这种动物推到了高速发展阶段。

I I think it put this animal into hyperdrive.

他称这为大爆炸理论或大袋子理论，因为他很幽默。

He calls this the big bang theory or the big bag theory because he's funny.

在1969年袋子出现之前，另一位受人尊敬的啮齿动物学家乔·布鲁克斯进行了一项调查，发现老鼠只存在于纽约11%的地区。

Right before the bags in 1969, another respected rodentologist named Joe Brooks did a survey and found that rats were only in 11% of New York.

现在鲍比说，老鼠已经遍布城市80%到90%的区域。

Now Bobby says rats are in 80 to 90% of the city.

那么当时负责的人有没有预见到这一点？

So did anyone in charge see this coming?

如果一群选修基础害虫课程的本科生都能看出来，那负责城市管理的人怎么会没发现呢？

If a bunch of undergrads in an entry level pest class could tell, couldn't the people running the city?

幸运的是，当年把塑料袋带到纽约的其中一人仍然在世。

Fortunately, one of the men who brought plastic bags to New York is still alive.

杰里·克雷奇默现在88岁了。

Jerry Kretchmer is now 88.

当时，他担任代理卫生局局长。

Back then, he was acting sanitation commissioner.

杰里可能是最后几位能明确告诉我们：他们是否意识到塑料袋会导致鼠患灾难的人之一。

Jerry might be one of the last people left who can tell us definitively, did they have any idea that plastic bags would lead to a ratpocalypse?

1971年，如果有人给我看一个塑料袋，我会觉得它很容易装满、很容易捡起来，也很容易收集。

In 1971, let's just say, if somebody would show me a plastic bag, I would think that's easy to fill, that's easy to pick up, and that they're easy to collect.

这些就是我当时会想到的事情。

Those are the things that I would have thought about it.

我根本不会想到老鼠会吃它们，因为那根本不是我关心的问题。

I wouldn't have thought that rats could eat them because that wasn't what I was concerned with.

我的关注点是收集垃圾。

My concern is collecting the garbage.

这个权衡值得吗？

Is that trade off worth it?

我不知道值不值得。

I don't know if it's worth it.

我的观点是我们必须把垃圾收走。

My story is we gotta get the garbage collected.

老鼠根本不在杰里的考虑范围内。

Rats were not on Jerry's radar at all.

他每天忙于清除数百万磅的垃圾，这说起来简直是个奇迹。

He was busy removing millions of pounds of garbage from the city every day, which, by the way, is kind of a miracle.

那袋子呢？

And bags?

它们让这项庞大的工作快了20%。

They made that massive job faster, 20% faster.

当城市看到效率时，大袋子却看到了美元符号。

Where the city saw efficiency, big bag saw dollar signs.

袋类制造商通过捐赠60万个袋子来引导公众舆论，甚至参与挑选了评估试点项目的人选。

Bag makers primed the public by donating 600,000 sacks and even got to help pick the guy who evaluated the pilot project.

在最初的新闻发布会上，那个人声称这些袋子能大大减少异味，从而不会吸引老鼠——但任何走过在烈日下暴晒的黑色垃圾袋堆的纽约人都知道，这完全是谎言。

At the initial press conference, that guy claimed that bags would reduce the smell so much that they wouldn't attract rats, which, as any New Yorker who has walked past a pile of black bags baking under the hot sun can tell you, is just a total lie.

1971年1月，市议会一致投票通过在纽约市五个行政区全面使用塑料袋。

In January 1971, the city council unanimously voted to approve the use of plastic bags in all five boroughs of New York.

垃圾桶被淘汰，袋子成为主流，派对开始了。

Cans were out, bags were in, and the party began.

啊，做一只20世纪70年代的纽约市老鼠真是幸福。

Oh, to be a New York City rat in the nineteen seventies.

快进到2023年。

Fast forward to 2023.

我认为你找不到比我们更认真对待容器、坚持把垃圾放进容器的政府了。

I don't think you're going to find an administration that is more serious about, containers and placing our garbage in containers like we are.

当然，这指的是市长埃里克·亚当斯。

That, of course, is mayor Eric Adams.

他和他的新鼠类事务主管为从老鼠手中夺回城市所采取的主要措施，是把垃圾袋重新放回垃圾桶里。

And the big thing he and his new rat czar are doing to take back the city from rats is to get trash bags back in trash cans.

但亚当斯正投入数百万美元开展一项新试点项目，以推翻林赛市长的试点方案。

But Adams is putting millions of dollars into a new pilot that undoes mayor Lindsay's pilot.

它将垃圾放入时尚现代的垃圾桶中。

It puts trash into sleek, modern bins.

这项计划雄心勃勃、大胆创新，但这里有几个它可能失败的原因。

It's ambitious, bold, but here's why it might not work.

新的垃圾桶需要更频繁地清运，每天一次甚至一天两次。

The new containers need to be picked up more often, daily or even twice a day.

这需要雇佣更多的环卫工人，而购买新型侧装垃圾车在未来十年可能耗资数亿美元。

This would require hiring more sanitation workers, and buying new special side loading trucks could cost hundreds of millions of dollars over the next decade.

此外，还有停车位的问题。

And then there's the parking spots.

为了使该计划生效，城市需要在15万个停车位上放置这些容器，某些社区的停车位比例最高可达25%。

To make the plan work, the city would need to place the containers in a 150,000 parking spots, up to 25% of spots in some neighborhoods.

那么，纽约人愿意放弃自己的停车位来遏制老鼠吗？

So are New Yorkers willing to give up their parking in order to beat back rats?

我不想放弃停车位。

I don't wanna give up parking spot.

找停车位已经够难了。

It's hard enough to find a parking spot.

你晚上回家时，这儿根本就找不到停车位。

You can't get a spot as it is around here just when you come home at night.

别想了。

Forget about it.

我宁愿解决老鼠问题。

I'd rather get rid of the rat problem.

那重要得多。

That's much more important.

我的意思是，

I mean,

这是一座步行城市，所以，你知道，这很容易。

this is a walking city, so, you know, it's easy.

放弃这些车位吧。

Give up the spots.

放弃这些车位吧。

Give up the spots.

十五万个。

150,000.

他们去哪停车？

Where they go to park?

去新泽西？

In Jersey?

你是在问纽约人两件非常棘手的事情：找停车位，却又不想遇到老鼠问题。

You're asking like a very two very intense things in New York, finding a spot to park, but not wanting problems with a rat.