868：执掌法槌之手

快速提醒一下，今天的节目中有未经哔音处理的脏话。如果您更喜欢哔音版本，可以在我们的网站thisamericanlife.org上找到。

A quick warning, there are curse words that are unbeeped in today's episode of the show. If you prefer a beeped version, you can find that at our website, thisamericanlife.org.

这里是来自芝加哥WBC电台的《美国生活》。我是艾拉·格拉斯。今年夏天，我们节目的三位成员——佐伊、娜迪娅和安吉拉——在纽约市的移民法庭待了数周，目睹了那些你可能在新闻里读到或听到的、发生在法庭走廊上的非凡事件。而处于事件核心的某个群体，此前从未有人能听到他们的声音。他们一直拒绝接受记者采访，直到现在才开始与我们对话。

From WBC Chicago, it's This American Life. I'm Era Glass. This summer, three people from our show, Zoe and Nadia and Angela, spent weeks at immigration court in New York City witnessing this extraordinary thing that you might have read about or heard about happening in the hallways there. And there was one group at the center of that thing that nobody ever got to hear from. They would not talk to reporters until now when they've been talking to us.

今天我们请到了他们上节目。稍后我们会听到他们的故事。但首先，佐伊·蔡斯现在来到演播室与我一起。佐伊，先描述一下你在法庭上看到的情况吧。

We had them on today's show. We're gonna get to them in a few minutes. But first, Zoe Chase now joins me in the studio. Zoe, let's first describe what you witnessed at the courthouse.

好的。我们去了市中心联邦广场26号的法庭，那里基本上就是一堆看起来非常陈旧的法庭。通常移民们会在这里进进出出参加听证会。整个地方看起来像是从九十年代就没翻新过。嗯。

Okay. So we visited the courtrooms at 26 Federal Plaza downtown, and it's basically just a bunch of very old looking courtrooms. Normally, immigrants are coming in and out, going for their hearings in this place. It looks like it hasn't been redone since the nineties. Mhmm.

现在你乘电梯上到十二楼，门一开就看到人山人海。有三四种不同的执法部门人员——ICE（移民海关执法局）、DHS（国土安全部）、FBI（联邦调查局），我还看到了外交安全处的人。

And now you take the elevator, you get to the Twelfth Floor, the doors open, it's just crowded. Like, three or four different kinds of law enforcement, ICE, DHS, FBI. I saw the Diplomatic Security Service.

管它是什么部门。反正搞不清楚。

Whatever that is. Don't know.

还有记者、许多摄影师、活动人士和律师。所有人都围在一个法庭门口，就像等着明星出场似的。嗯。现场气氛时而紧张，时而无聊。但当有人从法庭出来时，ICE就会围上去给他们戴上手铐，迅速押着他们穿过走廊。

Plus reporters, a lot of photographers, activists, lawyers. Everyone's kind of huddled around one courtroom door, like a celebrity is gonna come out of it. Mhmm. And the feeling of it, it's tense, and then it's boring. And then when somebody steps out of the courtroom, ICE surrounds them and handcuffs them and starts hustling them down the hall.

场面变得非常匆忙，就像在急诊室里，所有人都在追赶他们。志愿律师们沿着走廊追着这个人跑，询问他能否提供一个可以联系的家属电话号码。347347。多说一些。我可以联系你的家人。

And it gets very rushed, like in ER, everyone's chasing them. Volunteer lawyers are racing down the hallway after this guy, asking for a phone number for a family member they can call for him. 347347. Say more. I can contact your family.

那个人说，我不记得了。然后他就被推进了电梯。

The guy says, I don't remember. And he's pushed into the elevator.

好的。刚才发生了什么？

Okay. What just happened?

移民海关执法局把他们抓走了。我在那里等了一整天。

ICE picked them up. I've been waiting there all day.

他们清楚自己要来抓谁。

They know who they're coming to get.

我当时是法庭上的一名移民海关执法局官员，全程都在发短信与他们协调行动。

I was an ICE officer in the courtroom the entire time texting and coordinating with them.

需要明确的是，这些人都是按政府要求出庭的。他们遵守规则参与法律程序，却突然在走廊被捕并投入拘留。

And just to be clear, these are people showing up at court. The government told them to. They're following the rules as part of this legal process, and then they are suddenly getting arrested in the hallway and thrown into detention.

是啊。我们在这里处理了太多类似案件，甚至开始感觉像例行公事——在拘留间隙，探员、记者和律师们会聚在一起闲聊他们听的播客或《指环王》。直到某些事情突然提醒所有人，无论我们目睹多少次，这里发生的究竟是什么。

Yeah. And we're doing so many of them here. It can feel almost routine, like, between the detentions. The agents and the press and the lawyers are just standing around chitchatting about the podcast they listen to or Lord of the Rings. And then something happens that almost reminds everyone of what we're doing here no matter how many times we see it.

那是一个人的生活被彻底颠覆的瞬间。比如这位名叫路易斯的委内瑞拉人，五十岁左右。他实际上是通过合法口岸入境的。

It's one person's life turning completely upside down. Like this one guy. His name was Luis from Venezuela. He was around 50 years old. He'd actually entered the country legally at a port of entry.

他没有违反任何法律。他在走廊被拘留，被拽进电梯。他的姐姐试图跟进去，电梯门却在她面前关闭。她开始急得直跺脚。

He broke no law. He was detained in the hallway, pulled into the elevator. His sister was with him, trying to follow him in. The doors closed in her face. She started jumping up and down.

所有人都只是站着。探员们弓着背，神情痛苦，有人低头盯着自己的鞋子。后来他姐姐阿努拉在新泽西找到了他。

Everyone just stood there. The agents hunched over. They seemed miserable. Some looked down at their shoes. The sister, Anula, eventually tracked him down in New Jersey.

他现在仍被关押在那里。

He's still in detention there now.

法官们知情吗？这些人刚离开法庭，就在走廊被带走了。

And were the judges in on this? Like, they're having these cases, and then people are leaving their courtrooms and being taken away in the hallway.

我们不清楚。但到了夏末，法庭上发生什么、法官作出什么裁决似乎都不重要了。探员们想抓谁就抓谁。我们不禁要问：这些法官到底怎么回事？我们非常想采访他们，但没有一位愿意开口。

We didn't know. But by the end of the summer, it didn't seem to matter what happened in the courtroom, what ruling the judges made. The agents were picking up whoever they wanted. And so we were like, what's going on with these judges? We really wanted to talk to them, but none of them would talk to us.

嗯，一开始是这样。

Well, at first.

起初如此。但情况发生了变化，因为走廊上发生的一切只是移民法庭解体的冰山一角。在内部，真正在这个机构的核心地带，还发生了许多我们看不见、甚至全然不知的事情。然后突然间，法官们开始发声了。

At first. But that changed because what was happening in the hallways was just part of this dismantling of the immigration court. There was all sorts of stuff happening on the inside, really in the guts of the place that we could not see, that we didn't even know was there. And then suddenly, the judges started talking.

他们道出了一些令人大开眼界的真相，这也将成为我们今天的节目主题。今天，我们将听到一群通常沉默的声音——移民法官们，这些本该决定谁去谁留的人。他们坦言，由于近几个月工作性质的改变，要公平裁决已变得极其困难。有些法官甚至被直接告知应如何判决。今天，他们将带我们揭开法庭的幕后真相。

Talking and saying some stuff that is totally eye opening, and that is gonna be our show today. Today, we're gonna hear from people who we normally never hear from, immigration judges, the people who are supposed to make the decisions about who stays and who goes in our country. And they are saying now that that is becoming very hard to do in a fair way because of the way their jobs have changed in the last few months. Some of them are being told straight up what their decision should be. Today, they take us behind the curtain at the court.

法袍褪下，法官们袒露心声。他们谈论着从未听闻的幕后操作。欲知详情，请持续关注。

The robes come off. The judges get real. They talk about stuff they have never heard was happening at all. To hear for yourself, stay with us.

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这里是《美国生活》。正如我在休息前所说，数月来没有法官愿意接受采访。直到今年夏天，他们因目睹移民法庭的幕后情况而开始发声。纳迪亚·雷蒙德采访了他们。接下来请听报道。

This is American life. So like I was saying, before the break, for months, no judge would talk to us. Then this summer, they started talking because of what they're seeing behind the scenes at immigration court. Nadia Raymond talked to them. Here she is.

成为移民法官需要特定类型的人——热衷细节，能忍受数小时听基切语到西班牙语再到英语的翻译，只为确认某人的邮寄地址。当然，你还必须信奉规则。他们有一条铁律：不得接受媒体采访。而我最终采访了来自全国各地的15位法官。想必是时局维艰使然吧。

It takes a very specific person to be an immigration judge, the kind that likes minutia, likes listening to hours of translations from, like, quiche to Spanish to English just to get someone to confirm their mailing address. And, obviously, you have to believe in rules. One main rule they have, don't talk to the press. I ended up talking to 15 judges from all over the country. Desperate times, I guess.

乔治·帕帕斯就是其中之一。他在马萨诸塞州切尔姆斯福德的一家法院工作，离波士顿很近。一位相当新的法官，上任大约两年。直到最近，他平常的工作日通常有两种类型的听证会。

George Pappas was one of them. He works at a court in Chelmsford, Massachusetts, close to Boston. A pretty new judge. He's been on the bench about two years. An average day for him until recently was usually one of two kinds of hearings.

要么是大量快速、重复、无聊的听证会，只是为了安排下一次听证会，要么是一个完整的庇护案件。

Either a lot of quick, repetitive, boring hearings just to schedule the next hearing or a full asylum case.

有一些案件我无法批准，所以我会先处理这些，好吗？让我先处理这些。

There were some cases that I could not grant, so I'll go through those, okay? Let me go through those first.

在这些庇护听证会上，申请人需要证明他们无法在自己的祖国任何地方生活，因为他们因种族、宗教、国籍、政治观点或属于某个特定社会群体（这一条常常模糊不清）而受到迫害。

In those asylum hearings, a person would have to make the case that they cannot live anywhere in their home country because they're being persecuted due to their race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or the ever so squishy membership in a particular social group.

我见过很多来自巴西的案件，移民声称自己受到迫害，生命受到威胁，因为他们借了高利贷的钱，债主正在追杀他们。我无法告诉你多少次看到这样的诉求走进我的法庭，我只能摇头。为什么会有这种案子？

I've seen a lot of cases out of Brazil where the immigrant is saying, I'm being persecuted, and I fear for my life because the loan shark that I borrowed money from is after me. I haven't paid back the loan, and he's looking to kill me. I cannot tell you how many times I've seen that claim walk into my courtroom, and I'm just shaking my head. Why is this here?

情况艰难，但被高利贷追债并不能让你成为某个特定社会群体的成员。所以你不能获得庇护。这很明确。乔治拒绝了这些案件。基拉·莉莲是来自国家另一端康科德（湾区）另一家法院的法官，她也以健康的怀疑态度和敏锐的听力处理案件，因为，你知道，这是她的职责所在。

Rough going, but being chased by a loan shark doesn't make you a member of a particular social group. So you can't get asylum. Pretty clear cut. George denied those cases. Keira Lillian, a judge from another court on the other side of the country, Concord, in the Bay Area, she also approaches her cases with a healthy level of skepticism, a discerning ear, because, you know, that's what she's supposed to do.

而且有些人会说谎。

And some people lie.

这种情况总是发生，你会反复听到某些故事和某些关键细节，重复了成百上千次。于是你立刻会想，这怎么可能呢。

That is something that always happens is that you do hear certain stories repeatedly and certain key details that are repeated and, like, hundreds of times over. And so you're just immediately thinking how can that possibly be the case.

没错。这会让你有点侧目，就像在问，这是真的吗？

Right. That make you go, like, side eyed a little. Like, you're like, is that true?

是啊。

Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

对。我从未因此感到愤怒。在我看来，人们会一遍又一遍听到相同主张有两个主要原因：一是因为这是编造的，并被分发给一群人，他们都被告知同样的虚假故事；二是因为那个国家存在系统性侵犯人权的行为模式。

Yeah. I never felt angry about it. There in my mind, there are two big reasons why you could hear the same claim from someone over and over again. One is because it's been manufactured and been farmed out to a whole bunch of people, and they're all given the same fake story. The other is because there's a pattern and practice of human rights violations in that country.

确实。

Right.

正因如此，每个人都在讲述同样的故事，因为每个人都遭受着同样的伤害和迫害。这就是挑战所在。

And that's why and that's why everybody is giving the same story because everybody's undergoing the same harm and persecution. So, you know, that's the challenge.

这就是听证会的工作内容。日复一日出现在柯里斯法庭听证会上的人大致分为这几类：想留在美国的人、他们的律师（如果有的话）、口译员以及国土安全部的律师。无论她在法官席上听到来自世界哪个角落的悲惨故事，她总能保持法庭的平静有序。正因如此，当我今年夏天出现在她的法庭时，听到法庭外的混乱声，连她都感到震惊。

So that's the job, hearings. And the people appearing in these hearings in Curis Court day after day broke down like this. People who wanted to stay in The US, their lawyers, if they had one, interpreters, and Department of Homeland Security lawyers. And no matter what horror story from what corner of the world she hears from the bench, she keeps things calm and orderly, which is why it was so shocking when I showed up at her courthouse this summer, and she could hear the chaos right outside her courtroom.

我知道有人晕倒了。我们不得不为一名丈夫被拘留的女士叫救护车。ICE官员躲在楼梯间里。我能看到抗议者站在我的窗外，挡在ICE的运输车前试图阻拦。我目睹了扭打的场面。

I knew people were passing out. I knew we had to call an ambulance for someone whose husband was detained. ICE officers were hiding in the stairwell. I could see protesters outside of my window standing in front of the ICE transport vans and trying to block them. I could see the scuffle.

我能听到鼓声和汽车喇叭声。每次走进法庭时我都觉得一切可能随时爆发，而我必须控制住局面。

I could hear the drums and the honking. And I would go into court thinking everything could explode and I have to hold it.

所有受访法官都表示，他们对ICE现在进驻大楼、就在门外走廊这件事感到不安。这是个巨大变化。与此同时，法庭内部也开始发生变化。珍妮弗·德金是曼哈顿瓦里克街某法院的法官。就在我抵达纽约前后，一名国土安全部的律师出庭了。

All the judges they talked to said they were on edge about ICE NOW being inside the building, just outside their doors in the hall. This was a huge change. And at the same time, things inside their courtrooms began to change too. Jennifer Durkin is a judge at a courthouse on Varick Street in Manhattan. Right around the time I showed up in New York, a DHS lawyer, a lawyer from the Department of Homeland Security, showed up for court.

他们代表政府一方，通常主张驱逐某人。那天有两件不寻常的事：首先，这类常规听证会通常通过视频连线出庭的国土安全部律师，这次亲自到场；其次，他提交了驳回案件的动议。

They are the side that represents the government, usually arguing to deport someone. Two things were unusual that day. First, DHS lawyers usually appear via video for this kind of routine hearing. This guy came in person. And second, he filed a motion to dismiss the case.

实际上，他对法官说

In fact, he said to her

我将提出多项驳回动议。我当时心想：这是什么情况？所以

I'm gonna be making a number of motions to dismiss. I was like, what's happening? And So

你当时立刻觉得不对劲了吗？

that immediately sounded weird to you?

没错。通常来说，驳回动议意味着他们不再追究对当事人的起诉。但这种事从未发生过。

Yeah. Yeah. And typically, I mean, motions to dismiss would mean that they're no longer pursuing a prosecution of the person. Okay. Never happens.

而且ICE（移民海关执法局）的人就在外面。他们提出了一系列奇怪的动议，听说还要亲自出庭。很明显情况有异。

And ICE was outside. There's a series of strange motions being made. They're hearing they're coming in person. It was clear that something was up.

异常之处在于：政府没有陈述为何要驱逐某人，而是突然表示不想继续了，要求撤销案件。对于坐在那里的移民来说，这听起来似乎是好事——太好了，我自由了。但问题是你并没有赢得庇护案。

What was up was instead of arguing why a person should be deported, the government was like, we don't wanna do that anymore. Instead, we want to dismiss the case, which, if you're the immigrant sitting there, can sound good. Like, great. I'm free. But the problem is you didn't win your asylum case.

你的案件被撤销了。而正在审理的庇护申请是你能够留在这个国家的唯一理由。突然间案件终止，你失去了合法居留依据，而此时ICE官员就站在几英尺外准备拘捕你。法官们比当事人更清楚这意味着什么，他们质疑：我们怎么能就这样结案？

Your case was dismissed. And the fact that you had a pending asylum case was the only reason you could stay in the country. Suddenly, with no pending case, you have no grounds to be here, and you're standing just a few feet away from ICE, who are ready to detain you. And the judges understood that better than the people in front of them. They were like, how can we just close this case?

基于什么法律依据？这看起来就像是个诱捕拘留的圈套。于是有些法官联系了他们的上级——被称为ACIJs的助理首席移民法官。在芝加哥监督22名法官的Jennifer Payton（她自称Jenna）就是一位有近十年资历的ACIJ。

For what legal reason? It looked like a way to just trap people and detain them. Respond. So some of them called their supervisors, who were also judges, known as ACIJs, Assistant Chief Immigration Judges. Jennifer Payton, she goes by Jenna, is an ACIJ in Chicago, supervising 22 judges, has been a judge for nearly a decade.

她正要登机时电话响了。

She was about to board a flight when her phone rang.

我的一位法官直接打了我的手机。

One of my judges called my cell phone.

嗯哼。

Uh-huh.

他说，哦，你知道的，他们在法庭上提出了驳回动议。我说，就像审理你面前的案子一样，像处理其他动议那样处理这个动议。嗯。就这样。法官，就像处理其他动议一样。

And he's like, oh, I'm you know, they're at their most they're moving to dismiss in court. I said, like, adjudicate the case in front of you, adjudicate the motions with any other motion. Mhmm. That's it. Like any other motion, judge.

像处理你收到的其他动议一样审理这个。

Judicate this like any other motion you've received.

换句话说，继续做好法官的本分。遵守规则并作出裁决。对她来说这很简单。即使政府提出了奇怪的要求，也要像平常一样履行职责。在这种情况下，常规做法是当一方提出驳回动议时，你不必立即同意。

In other words, keep being a judge. Follow the rules and make your judgment. It seems simple to her. Even if the government is asking for something weird, do your job like normal. In this situation, the practice is when one side moves to dismiss, you don't have to say yes right away.

你可以给另一方十天时间考虑。但大约一周后，移民法官们收到了来自移民审查执行办公室（EOIR）的邮件，他们是特朗普政府下属的上级部门。邮件内容关于驳回动议，明确指出：无需给予移民十天回应时间，可以当场批准国土安全部提出的驳回请求。

You can give the other side ten days to think about it. But then, about a week after that, immigration judges got an email from the Executive Office of Immigration Review, EOIR, their bosses who work for the Trump administration. It was about the motions to dismiss. And it said, you don't need to give immigrants ten days to respond. You may grant the motions that DHS is asking for on the spot.

与我交谈的大多数法官将此解读为要求他们批准所有驳回动议，站在国土安全部一边。尽管邮件使用了'可以'这个词，法官们听到的却是'必须'。

Most of the judges I talked to read this as instructing them to grant all the motions to dismiss, to side with Homeland Security. Even though the email used the word may, judges heard it as shall.

而这正是令人担忧之处，我们被告知如何裁决驳回动议。

And that was what was concerning, that we were being told how to adjudicate motions to dismiss.

但话说回来，他们是你的上司。上司指示你需要做什么，这难道不合情理吗？

But just to say, I mean, those are your bosses. Like, doesn't it make sense that your bosses would be like, this is what we need you to do?

作为主管，我从未指示法官如何裁决案件。嗯。这正是独立法官的标志——运用你的培训、专业知识和移民法知识来解决争议。我不会告诉你如何断案。嗯。

So as a supervisor, I never told my judges how to decide a case. Mhmm. And that is the hallmark of being an independent judge. You are resolving issues and controversy using your training and your expertise and your knowledge of immigration laws, and I'm not gonna tell you how to decide a case. Mhmm.

但这次却是直接命令我如何裁决案件。

And this was tell me how to decide a case.

嗯。嗯。

Mhmm. Mhmm.

这才是最令人不安的地方。

And that was what was very troubling.

事发后乔治立即向他的主管——另一位法官——汇报了情况。

George went to his supervisor, another judge, immediately when this all went down.

我说，法官阁下，您知道吗，我们听说司法部的律师现在正走进法庭，要求驳回案件，被告正被逮捕并进入快速遣返程序。关于如何应对这种新情况，您有什么想对我们说的吗？他的回答是：批准他们。批准他们。我盯着他看。

And I said, judge, you know, we're hearing that attorneys for the department are now coming into court, and they're asking to dismiss cases, respondents are being arrested, and put into expedited removal. Is there anything you wanna tell us in terms of how you wanna approach this new environment? And his response was, grant them. Grant them. And I looked at him.

这是Teams视频会议。我盯着他说，您是说批准他们？他回答，是的。您的意思是机械盖章式批准？当我提到机械盖章时，他稍微含糊了一下。

This was a Teams video. And I looked at him and I said, you said grant them? He goes, yeah. You mean rubber stamp, grant them? When I said rubber stamped, he hedged a little bit.

他说，呃，如果案件存在缺陷的话。所以除非有缺陷，您希望我们一律批准？是的。传达的信息很明确：别惹麻烦。

He goes, well, if they're defective. So unless they're defective, you want us to grant them? Yes. The message was clear. Don't cause any trouble.

批准他们。

Grant them.

有些法官确实直接批准了动议。但乔治希望审慎考虑每个请求，根据具体案情裁决。他不想机械批准任何案件。于是他查阅了关于如何合法驳回这些撤销请求的判例法，并决定分享这些信息，某种程度上算是给他上司难堪。

Some judges did just grant the motions. But George wanted to consider each request and rule according to each specific case. He didn't want to rubber stamp anything. So he looked up case law about how to deny these dismissals legally. And then he decided to share this info and kinda stick it to his boss.

我特意把相关法律条文发到Teams他能看到的地方。这是我在表达：不行。我们得这么做。正如我公开说明的：各位请注意，这是关于驳回动议的法律依据。如需拒绝，以下是你们需要了解的判例法。

And I made sure that that law was posted on teams where he could see that. But it was my way of saying, no. This is the way we're gonna do it. As I would put it out there, said, folks, just so you know, here's the law on motions to dismiss. If you need to deny, here are the case laws you need to be aware of.

这些是你们需要牢记的审查标准。为保障正当程序，你们必须完成x、y、z步骤。所以我们

These are the standards of review you need to keep in mind. In order to protect due process, you gotta do x, y, and z. So we

是那个吗

Is that what

你在消息里说的？相当

you said in the message? Pretty

差不多。是的。差不多。

much. Yeah. Pretty much.

你为什么要那么做？

Why did you do that?

因为我抗拒了。那是我在法律框架内挑战错误指令的方式。

Because I resisted. It was my legal way internally to challenge a directive which was wrong.

你当时感觉如何？那么做会害怕吗？会觉得有点奇怪吗？

How did you feel? Were you scared to do that? Did it feel like a little strange?

你不了解我。不。我不害怕。我不害怕。我不害怕。

You don't know me. No. I'm not scared. I'm not scared. I'm not scared.

我很愤怒。愤怒于我们被操纵的事实。

I was angry. I was angry that we were being manipulated.

纽约的詹妮弗·德金与乔治的看法不同。

Jennifer Durkin from New York didn't see it the way George did.

我原本没那样解读，但确实有人认为如此。我当时真的困惑——具体是哪份备忘录？

So I hadn't read it that way, but I do think others did. I was literally like, which which memo?

哦，真的吗？你

Oh, really? You

知道，我选择相信自己的司法独立性当然会得到保留。那是法律决策范畴。所以我曾期望并假定这部分不会受到干涉。

know, I chose to assume that, of course, I would be left with my judicial independence. That was legal decision making. And so to me, that that, I guess, had hoped and assumed that that would be left untouched.

有那么一段时间确实如此。她依据自认正确的原则裁决——多数时候驳回了政府的撤案动议。ICE也遵守裁决，未抓捕相关案件人员，任其离开。但突然之间，ICE改变了做法。

And for a minute there, that was exactly what happened. She would rule on something based on what she thought was right, which was mostly denying motions to dismiss from the government. And ICE respected that. They didn't pick up people from those cases, let them walk out. But then all of a sudden, ICE changed their approach.

几周后，即便你驳回动议也无济于事。当事人仍遭拘留。

A couple of weeks later, it didn't matter if you denied them. The people were still being detained.

你是什么时候注意到的？你是怎么发现这件事正在发生的？

When did you notice? How did you notice that it was happening?

我想说可能是外面有人知道我否决了某项动议，不管是工作人员还是保安，看到他们被拘留后回来告诉我。他们真的没告诉你否决了动议吗？我说是的。然后他们说把他带走了。那一刻，我可能看向奥普拉问道：所有人都在被拘留吗？

I wanna say maybe somebody had been outside who knew I had denied a certain motion, whether it was some a staff member or a security guard, and then saw them get detained and came back in and told me. They really didn't you deny that motion? And I said, yes. And they said they took him. And so I might at that point, I I might have looked at Oprah and I said, is everyone just being detained?

顺便说下，奥普拉是法官对政府律师的称呼，即首席法律顾问办公室。

Oprah, by the way, is what judges call the government attorney, Office of the Principal Legal Advisor.

他们回答说据他们所知是的。你当时怎么回应的？我其实没什么可说的。

And they said yes to their knowledge. What'd you say to that? I there wasn't much I could say.

需要明确的是，ICE确实有权拘留任何案件待审的移民。只是他们很少使用这项权力。但现在这种情况频繁发生，这就引出了一个根本性问题：法官存在的意义是什么？无论批准还是驳回动议，似乎都不会改变法庭上这些人的命运。

To be clear, ICE had the legal authority to detain any immigrant whose case was pending. They just rarely used it. But now that it was happening so regularly, that brought up an existential question. What is the point of the judge? Whether they granted the motions to dismiss, whether they denied them, it didn't seem to affect what happened to the people in their courtrooms either way.

我知道我的裁决很重要，我在法律上处理案件的方式也很重要。但就实际结果而言，无论我怎么裁决，ICE都会按照他们的意愿行事。

I knew that my ruling mattered and the way I handled the case legally matters. But in terms of the practical outcome, ICE was gonna do what they were gonna do regardless of my ruling.

没错。这肯定是一种奇怪的感觉，因为就像你说的，裁决确实重要，但这种重要性更像是一种理论上的意义，而非实际影响。是的。

Right. So that's gotta be a strange feeling because it's like you're saying it matters, but it matters almost like in a very intellectual way, but not in a practical Yes.

这对上诉目的很重要。这关系到那个人未来如何寻求救济。但就我能否影响某人是否被拘留而言，这并不重要。我一直很清楚，我对此没有任何影响力。

It matters for purposes of appeal. It matters in terms of how that person might be able to seek redress in the future. But it doesn't matter in terms of me being able to influence one way or the other whether someone's taken into custody. I know I it was always very clear that I didn't have any influence over that.

但这不令人抓狂吗？因为你无法影响某人是否被拘留，而你却明确表示这个人仍在诉讼程序中。他们本应受到法庭保护，却还是被带走了。

Isn't that maddening, though? Because it's not that, you know, it's not like that you can influence whether or not you somebody gets taken into custody, but you're literally saying this person is still in proceedings. They're under the protection of the court, and they're getting picked up anyway.

感觉就像周围的墙壁正在崩塌，一切都分崩离析。

It really just sort of felt like everything like, the walls were disintegrating around us. It felt like everything was falling apart.

我们设计了一个复杂的移民体系，本应回答一个简单问题：谁能留下，谁不能？在此之前，多数移民法官认为并表现得像是政府的司法分支——独立解释和适用法律的部门。但严格来说，他们不是。

We have a big complicated immigration system designed to answer a pretty simple question. Who can stay and who can't? Up until now, most immigration judges felt and acted like they were part of the judicial branch of government, an independent branch that just interprets and applies the laws. But they're not. Not technically.

他们实际隶属于司法部的行政部门，为总统工作。但此前没有任何政府直接指示他们如何裁决案件。他们不习惯也不喜欢这样，但司法部上司的政策备忘录不断下达。

They're actually part of the executive branch within the Department of Justice. They work for the president. But till now, no administration has ever given them very direct orders about how to decide their cases. They weren't used to it, and they didn't like it. But the orders kept coming in the form of policy memos from their bosses at the Department of Justice.

大量政策备忘录开始从内部改变移民法庭。有些针对特朗普政府归咎于拜登的问题——堆积如山的积压案件。拜登任内，大量涌入的移民使庇护申请激增，现有积压案件已超350万，而审理法官不足700人。经历过特朗普第一任期的法官们以为会收到办案指标。

A lot of policy memos actually that would start to transform immigration court from the inside. Some targeted a problem that the Trump administration was blaming on Biden, the giant backlog of immigration cases on the books. Under president Biden, so many people entered The United States that the number of asylum cases exploded, which added to an existing backlog. The total is now more than 3,500,000 pending immigration cases with a comparatively tiny pool of judges to adjudicate them, under 700. Immigration judges who worked under the first Trump administration figured they would be given quotas to deal with this.

上次就是这样处理的：限定时间内结案数量，尽可能快速清理积压。但这次一开始并未如此。

That's what happened last time. Close this many cases in this amount of time. Move through that backlog as fast as humanly possible. But that didn't happen. Not at first anyway.

相反，他们收到了所有的备忘录。比如这份开篇就写道：EOIR裁决员有责任高效管理案件。从EOIR积压的近400万件案件来看，显然并未做到这一点。真是辛辣的讽刺。

Instead, they got all the memos. Like this one that began this way. EOIR adjudicators have a duty to efficiently manage their dockets. It is clear from the almost 4,000,000 pending cases on EOIR's docket that has not been happening. Sick burn.

这份备忘录的意思是，我们建议你们从根本上改变处理庇护案件的方式。它要求法官审查最初的庇护申请——通常是漫长流程的第一步，常由无律师协助者手写完成——若发现任何不完整或错误之处，就直接驳回整个案件，连听证都免了。这被称为'对法律上不充分庇护申请的预先否决'。

This memo was like, we're gonna suggest that you change the way you do asylum cases in the first place. It told the judges to look at the initial asylum application, usually the first step in this long process, often filled out by hand by people without a lawyer. And if that had anything incomplete or incorrect, throw out the whole case. Don't even hear it. It was called pretermission of legally insufficient applications for asylum.

以下是基拉的观点。

Here's Kira.

特别是对于没有律师代理的人，我想亲自听取他们的陈述。在裁决案件前，我希望面见申请人，聆听他们的证词，审查他们提交的证据。

Especially with someone who's not represented by counsel, I'm not I I wanna hear from them. I wanna meet them. I wanna hear what they have to say before I adjudicate their case. I wanna hear their testimony. I wanna see what evidence they file.

在基拉看来，这严重违背司法原则。备忘录实质是在命令她：不要思考，不要评估，直接按下驳回按钮。这简直是对法官职能的侮辱。更恶劣的是，它剥夺了寻求庇护者完整陈述案件的机会，拒绝让他们在正式听证中出示证据，否定了法官基拉认为应当保护的正当程序权利——这种权利正是宪法第五修正案所保障的。

This felt Akira like a major violation. It was telling her, don't think, don't assess, just push this button. It felt anti judge. Worse, it seemed to be cutting off the chance for people seeking asylum to have their cases heard, denying them the chance to present their evidence in a full hearing, denying them the due process that as a judge, Kira felt she should be protecting. The due process, by the way, that is enshrined in the Fifth Amendment to the constitution.

新政策备忘录还有一点令法官们尤为愤慨：这些文件充斥着对法官和法院本身的指责。整体基调就是：你们一直全盘做错，局面已经失控，现在我们要收紧缰绳了。

There was something else about the new policy memos that really annoyed the judges. The memos were very accusatory at the judges and the courts themselves. The overall tone was basically, you've been doing everything all wrong. Things are out of control. Now we're gonna put you on a tight leash.

法官们觉得这些指责带有个人攻击性质。

They felt personal.

这些内容看起来像是一连串的抱怨，矛头直指移民法官处理案件的方式，并强烈试图将我们推向某个特定方向。

They seemed like rants, ranting against, the way immigration judges were handling cases and strongly pushing us into a certain direction.

我听有人把这些政策备忘录称为'节日吐槽备忘录'，因为它们就像《宋飞正传》里那种宣泄不满的桥段。

I heard someone refer to these PMs as the Festivus Memos as they were the airing of grievances like from Seinfeld.

是啊。

Yeah.

我认为那种语气非常值得注意，因为听起来完全不像是了解我们工作性质、或是理解法庭上需要考虑哪些因素的人写的。整篇都充斥着一种愤懑情绪，既脱离现实又极其不专业。

I think the tone was really significant because it didn't sound like any of them were written by someone who knew what the job was that we were doing or understood the concerns that we would be weighing in the courtroom. That really just seems like a chip on the shoulder. It's detached from reality and completely unprofessional.

这些备忘录对拜登政府相关的一切都表现出赤裸裸的愤怒，基本论点就是拜登政府在法官任命和移民法庭政策上都偏袒移民。因此大量备忘录废除了拜登时期的政策来'纠正'这点。他们指责法官们——尤其是新法官——过分倾向移民，办事拖沓，在我们这个本就存在缺陷的移民申诉流程上耗费太长时间。有份备忘录对法官的挖苦简直明目张胆到无法忽视。

The memos are explicitly furious with everything related to the Biden administration, saying basically that the Biden administration stacked both judge hiring and immigration court policy in favor of immigrants. And so many memos rescind Biden era policies to fix that. They accused the judges, especially the newer ones, of being too into the immigrants, of being foot draggers and taking too long with this imperfect process that we have for ensuring immigrants get a chance to plead their case. There's one memo that was such an obvious dig at the judges. It was hard to miss.

哦这篇绝了。'提高效率'...天啊。我当时看到就想：你们是在开玩笑吧？行吧。

Oh, this is a good one. Effective oh god. I saw this, and I'm like, oh, you have got to be kidding me. Yeah. Alright.

标题是《移民法庭程序中的中立性与公正性》。

Title, neutrality and impartiality in immigration court proceedings.

我能请你读一下吗，不是中间那个图表，而是开头写着‘尽管许多移民法官’的那部分

Can I ask you to read, like, not the middle graph, but the one that starts, although many immigration judges

哦，是吗？

Oh, yeah?

天啊。尽管许多移民法官在移民诉讼中严格保持对双方的不偏不倚，但有些移民法官似乎基于个人政策偏好认为，只要这种偏见有利于外国人而反对国土安全部，在某些情况下表现出偏见就是正当的。

Oh my god. Although many immigration judges scrupulously maintain impartiality towards both parties in immigration proceedings, there are some immigration judges who appear to believe, based on their own personal policy preferences, that exhibiting bias is justifiable in certain situations as long as that bias is in favor of an alien and against the Department of Homeland Security.

换句话说，你们法官认为对移民有偏见是可以的，并且你们不断做出有利于他们的裁决，而不是充分考虑国土安全部的论点。报告还提到，引用原话，‘那些更倾向于成为支持外国人或国土安全部的政策倡导者的法官，应该考虑转行到其他职业道路’。内容相当丰富。

In other words, you judges think bias towards immigrants is okay, and you keep ruling in their favor instead of fully considering the arguments from the Department of Homeland Security. It also said, quote, judges who would prefer to be policy advocates favoring either aliens or DHS should consider transitioning to alternate career paths. It's a lot in there.

相当丰富。

A lot.

你读到这部分时，哪些内容让你印象深刻？

What parts jumped out at you when you read that?

转行建议那条。那是个重磅炸弹。就像在说，如果你不想待在这里，那就干脆离开。

The alternate career path. That was a big one. Like, if you don't wanna be here, just get out.

我只是觉得总部办公室的说法非常奇怪，他们说全国各地的移民法官，我们数百人，都在偏向某一方裁决。这实际上是在施压，要求我们更多偏向他们声称处于劣势的一方。往最好的方面说，这可以视为提醒我们要做真正公正的裁决者，尊重双方应有的程序权利。但实质上，这是在暗示我们应该做出有利于国土安全部的裁决，如果我们不这么做，就是对国土安全部不公。

Well, I just think it's really strange for the headquarters office to say that immigration judges across the country, hundreds of us, are all ruling in favor of one side and not the other. Like, that is pressure to rule more in favor of the side that they claim as being disadvantaged. It's essentially, I mean, in in like the best light, a reminder to be a truly fair adjudicator. In the best light, you could take it as a reminder to be a fair adjudicator and respect due process for both parties. But really what it was was a suggestion that we should be ruling in favor of DHS and that if we're not, we're being unfair to DHS.

我一直在想这份关于公正性的备忘录是否真的改变了法官们的行事方式。它是否以某种方式渗透到了法庭上？

I kept wondering if this impartiality memo actually did change something in the way judges acted. Did it seep into the courtroom in some way?

我接手这份工作时就持续保持专注，刻意确保自己充分考虑国土安全部的立场。我确实在倾听并回应他们的观点。我唯一的疑虑是自己是否给了国土安全部太多让步空间。

I came at this job with constant focus and an intentionality to ensure that I was considering DHS's perspective Mhmm. And that I was listening and that I was addressing their points. That's my only doubt is if I might've given DHS too much leeway.

所以它某种程度上确实影响了你的判断？

So it did kind of get in your head in a way then?

确实影响了我的心理。虽然我认为这从未改变我最终的裁决结果，但确实有些时候，我放任咄咄逼人的国土安全部律师进行过长时间的有害质询，只因不想打断他们。

It got in my head. I don't think it ever affected my, the ultimate adjudication, but I do think that there are points where I let a really aggressive DHS attorney continue too long with a hurtful line of questioning because I didn't want to cut them off.

真的吗？

Really?

是的，因为我在试图补偿这种偏见。

Because of, yeah, because of trying to compensate.

我曾向EOIR询问那些备忘录是否意在促使法官做出有利于国土安全部的判决。他们回应称，'众多政策备忘录旨在让法官重拾公正立场，并废除超过20项缺乏法律依据或阻碍案件及时审结的政策'。仅此而已。我们还请求采访EOIR主任和司法部官员，了解法官们向我们透露的所有变革以获取政府方面的说法，但遭到了拒绝。

I asked EOIR about the memos if they were trying to get judges to decide cases in DHS's favor. They said that the quote numerous policy memoranda were supposed to make the judges impartial again and undo, quote, over 20 policies that were unfounded in law or discourage the timely completion of cases. That's it. We also asked for interviews with the director of EOIR and officials at the DOJ about all the changes the judges told us about to get the administration side of it. They turned us down.

无论这些法官转向何处，他们似乎都在接收一个信息：他们所熟知的工作方式已不复存在。移民局无视法官裁决肆意抓人，他们既承受着备忘录带来的压力又遭受轻视。坦白说，自特朗普政府上任之初，许多人就长期生活在充满威胁感的环境中——宣誓就职仅数小时，代理司法部长就突然解雇了司法部四名移民部门高层。

Everywhere these judges turned, they seemed to be getting the message that the job as they knew it, that didn't exist anymore. ICE was grabbing people no matter what they said. Were getting these memos where they were both pressured and disrespected. And to be honest, they'd been living in an environment where a lot of them felt under threat since the beginning of the Trump administration. Within hours of Trump taking the oath of office, the acting attorney general abruptly fired a bunch of the immigration bosses at the DOJ, four of the top people.

这前所未有。解雇理由仅含糊援引宪法第二条，实质宣告总统可任意决定司法部人事。对移民部门而言，这如同刺耳的警笛，预示着全面变革的到来。珍娜作为资深职员——

This had never happened before. There was no reason given other than pursuant to article two. Basically, the president can decide everything that happens at DOJ. It was a loud, blaring signal to the immigration section that everything would be different this time. Jenna is senior staff.

她认识那四位被解雇的主管，此事令她极度恐慌。更甚者，她被列入了传统基金会资助的国土安全部监控名单，该网站标注所谓'美国最具颠覆性的移民官僚'，她的照片赫然出现在'目标'栏下，这让她时刻感到被监视。

She knew the four bosses who got fired, and it really freaked her out. Also, she'd been put on this DHS watch list, this website funded by the Heritage Foundation. It calls out, quote, America's most subversive immigration bureaucrats. Jenna's picture was there under targets. So she felt like she was being watched.

此后她遛狗时不敢戴耳机，还请求警方定期巡查住所。她对寻常事物也充满疑惧，比如工作团队的群聊——这本是同事间讨论工作、调侃上司的普通聊天群——现在却让她草木皆兵。

She wouldn't wear headphones when she walked the dog after that, asked the police to come and check-in on her home. She started looking at all kinds of normal things with extra trepidation, like her team's group chat, which was your typical office group chat where a bunch of work friends talk about the job, complain about the boss, get a little snarky.

我当时就想：'必须退出这个群聊，伙计。我的蜘蛛感应正在疯狂报警。'所以我——

I was like, I need to get out of this chat, man. I just feel like my spidey sense was tingling. And so I

为什么？到底为什么？

Why? Why

正要

was going

聊天群里发生了什么？

what was going on in the chat?

知道。只是觉得希拉和其他三人被迅速解雇的速度让我觉得，我真的需要保持低调。

Know. It just felt like the swiftness with the firings of Sheila and the other three. I was like, I just need to really keep my head down.

所以她主动退出了群聊，但很快又害怕错过什么。于是她想出了一个变通办法。

So she sees herself out of the group chat and finds that really soon she gets FOMO. So she comes up with a workaround.

我开始用Signal，因为我觉得自己超酷。打开Signal后，我拉了些ACIJ的朋友进来，对吧？就是助理首席移民法官的聊天群，我起了个类似‘屁股裂缝即时笑话’的名字。我也不知道，就是一时兴起。

I start using Signal because I'm super cool, and I open my Signal, and I start to populate it with some of my ACIJs, my buddies. Right? The assistant chief immigration judge chat, I named something like ass crack instant jokes. I don't know. It was just it was a moment.

就是每个首字母对应一个词？

Just for, like, each of each initial?

ACIJ啊老兄。所有公司都用首字母缩写，所以这就是它的意思。助理首席移民法官，屁股即时笑话。

ACIJ, man. Everything company's initials, so this is what it was. Assistant chief immigration judge, ass instant jokes.

这成了块不错的创可贴。移民法官和那些爱开低级玩笑的ACIj成员们，在团队里干的事如出一辙——互发表情包、八卦工作琐事，直到情人节那天。

This becomes a good band aid. The immigration judges and ass crack instant jokes do the same thing they do in teams. Send each other memes, gossip about work until February 14.

信号群聊突然炸开了锅。我一位ACIj兄弟说：我刚被炒了。接着有人附和：我也被开了。又有人接茬：我也是。转眼间，竟有六个人？

The signal chat starts to pop. And one of my ACij buddies goes, I just got fired. And someone else says, I just got fired too. And someone else, me too. And all of sudden, it was like, six?

实际上多达20人。13名实习法官和7名ACIJ，都是和珍娜同级别的人。留下的人开始疯狂计算，翻查法庭记录，琢磨着：他们批准庇护的概率是不是高于拒绝？这就是被开除的原因？纽约的珍妮弗·德金听说后直呼：完蛋。

Actually, it was 20. 13 judges in training and seven ACIJs, people at Jenna's level. Everyone left standing started doing the math, looking at people's records in the courtroom, being like, were they more likely to grant asylum than not? Is that why they got fired? Jennifer Durkin in New York heard about the firings and she was like, oh, crap.

被裁的都是前移民律师——和我简直如出一辙。对留下的人而言冲击太大。听听乔治怎么说。

The people getting fired are former immigration lawyers. Sounds a lot like me. It was overwhelming for the people who were left. Here's George.

这就是场突袭。像座被围困的中世纪古堡，他们先是慢慢断粮，现在又要掐断我们的氧气。其他法官开始表态：我要辞职。

It was an assault. It was like an old medieval castle that was under siege. They were slowly cutting off our food supply. Now they're cutting off our air supply. Other judges, began to say, I'm resigning.

别以为有这种感受的法官都是庇护批准狂魔，其实不然。比如乔治，他拒绝了四分之三的案子。但他依然感到危机四伏。二月的裁员潮后，乔治清空了办公室，连墙上的装饰都摘了，随时准备卷铺盖走人。我采访的三位法官都这么干了。

And before you think that all these judges who are feeling this way must be big asylum granters, not really. George, for example, denied like three fourths of his cases. But still, he didn't feel safe. George packed up his office after the February firings, took everything off his walls so he'd be ready just in case. Three of the judges I talked to did this.

这种压力最终以不同方式击垮了他们每个人。

The pressure caught up to each of them somehow.

我最近睡眠一直不太好，而且最近经常头痛，下巴也有些疼痛。他们给我拍了X光片，然后告诉我，我的牙齿已经磨损到几乎平了。天啊。是的。

I haven't been sleeping that well, and I guess I've had a lot of headaches recently and some pain in my jaw. They did X rays, and they said, well, you have literally ground down your teeth so that mine are flat. Oh my god. Yeah.

这些都是因为这件事带来的压力造成的吗？

This is all because of the stress of this happening?

我、我、我觉得这肯定让情况变得更糟了。是的。

I I I think it's certainly been exacerbated by it. Yeah.

我无法形容这些要求对法官们来说有多艰难。他们感觉自己被完全夹在了给予移民公正听证的义务和司法部要求他们做的事情之间。一位法官告诉我，他们甚至有过自杀的念头。每个人都在谈论哭泣，工作时哭，下班后也哭。我从没听说过这么多法官在哭。

I don't know how to emphasize how hard these demands were on these judges. They felt completely squeezed between a duty to give the immigrants in their court affair hearing and all that the DOJ was asking them to do. One judge told me they were feeling suicidal. Everyone talked about crying, crying at work, crying outside of work. I've never heard of so many judges crying.

调皮的雷蒙德。接下来，一位移民法官走进了一家变装俱乐部。实际上，法官并没有走进变装俱乐部。他没有和店主交谈。这就是问题所在。

Naughty Raymond. Coming up, an immigration judge walks into a drag club. Actually, judge doesn't walk into a drag club. He does not talk to the owner. That is the problem.

稍后来自芝加哥公共广播电台的节目将继续。这里是《这就是美国生活》，我是迈拉·格拉斯。今天的节目《摇动法槌的手》，娜迪亚·雷蒙德关于移民法官以及他们目前在移民法庭所见证的事情的故事将继续。

That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues. It's Just American Life, Myra Glass. Today's program, the hand that rocks the gavel, Nadia Raymond's story about immigration judges and the things that they are witnessing inside immigration court these days continues.

这是独立日周末。詹娜，那位主审法官，决定和家人一起去他们在河边的一处夏日别墅度假。那里很漂亮，也很宁静。她把政府配发的手机放在那里充电，没有去看它，真的很想断开联系。但一天结束时，她还是忍不住看了。

It's fourth of July weekend. Jenna, the boss judge, decides to go out with her family to a summer home they have on a river. It's nice, and it's rural. She leaves her government phone charging and isn't looking at it, really wants to unplug. But at the end of the day, she gets tempted.

让我快速滑动浏览一下，确保没什么需要真正担心的内容，对吧？

Let me just, like, do a quick little scroll and, like, just make sure there's nothing I need to really worry about. Right?

嗯哼。嗯哼。

Mhmm. Mhmm.

于是我拿起手机滑动屏幕，看到一封邮件。标题是'解雇通知-佩顿'，发件人是欧文主任。邮件内容写着：请查看附件。

So I turn my phone, and I do a scroll, and I see an email. The subject is notice of termination dash Peyton. It's from director Owen. And the email says, please see the attached.

等等。附件是什么？附件里写了什么？

Wait. What was it? What was the attachment?

哦稍等，我可以念给你听。全文就三句话，因为太简短我可能都背下来了。哇。

Oh, hang on. I can read it to you. It's all of three sentences. I probably have it memorized because it was so short. Wow.

等一下，我翻回去找找。'尊敬的佩顿法官：本通知旨在告知您，根据宪法第二条，司法部长决定免除您美国司法部移民审查执行办公室助理首席移民法官的职务。免职即日生效。请于今日下班前归还所有政府财产。'

Hang on. Let me go back and find it. Dear judge Payton, this notice serves to inform you that pursuant to article two of the constitution, the attorney general has decided to remove you from your position as an accepted service assistant chief immigration judge with the United States Department of Justice, executive officer for immigration review. Your removal is effective today. You are required to return all government property by the end of the day.

此致，欧文·瑟西，移民审查执行办公室代理主任。

Sincerely, Circe Owen, acting director EOIR.

珍娜已在法官席上任职近九年。EOIR没有说明解雇她的原因。珍娜被解雇一周后，马萨诸塞州的乔治即将结束他两年的试用期。这是法官转正前的阶段，通常这根本不是问题，基本上每个人都能转正。

Jenna had been on the bench for almost nine years. EOIR didn't say why they fired her. A week after Jenna got fired, George in Massachusetts was approaching the end of his two year probationary period. That's the time before judges are made permanent, which is usually not even a question. Basically, everyone gets made permanent.

不过，二月份首批被解雇的法官，恰恰是在他们两年试用期结束时发生的。所以乔治知道接下来会发生什么。

The first batch of judges who got fired back in February, though, it happened right at the end of their two year probationary period. So George knew what was coming.

是的。那是7月11日星期五，大约凌晨3点30分。

Yeah. It was Friday, July 11 at about 03:30.

真的吗？你预测得这么准，精确到3点30分左右？

Really? You predicted, like, down to around 03:30?

对，对。他们分毫不差。

Yeah. Yeah. They're they're to the tee.

好吧。

Okay.

真希望这是彩票中奖，那样我现在就能退休了。

I wish it was a lottery because I could retire now.

纽约的詹妮弗·德金就是以同样的方式被解雇的。简短的解雇信，在下班时分，也正好是她两年试用期结束的时候。基拉同样是在两年期满时被解雇。在我听过的所有解雇故事中，她的经历是最荒诞的。

Jennifer Durkin from New York got fired that exact same way. Short letter, end of the day, also was at the end of her two year probationary period. And Kira was also at the end of her two years. And out of all the firing stories I heard, hers was the nuttiest.

我当时正在听证会上记录，突然收到了那封邮件。当我看到这封在过去五六个月里一直让我提心吊胆的邮件，通过Outlook账户发来时，我只得说，非常抱歉，我们需要暂时中断记录。然后我们暂停了记录，我查看了邮件。

I was on the record in the middle of a hearing, and I got the email. When I saw the email that I've been dreading for, you know, five or six months when I saw it come in through my Outlook account, I just said, I'm I'm very sorry. We're gonna have to go off the record for a moment. And we went off the record. I looked at it.

我反复确认自己没有看错。邮件只有三行字，上面写着要求我立即离开，交出笔记本电脑和工牌。我告诉在场的各方，我刚被解雇了。天啊。

I made sure I was reading it correctly. It was only three lines long. And it said I needed to leave, turn in my laptop and badge immediately and leave. And I told the parties that I had just been fired. Oh my god.

听证会还能继续完成。结果双方律师——国土安全部和答辩人的法律顾问都惊呼：什么？你在开玩笑吗？我说，这不是玩笑。

Be able to conclude the hearing. And they both the attorneys, both for DHS and respondents council said, what? Are you joking? And I said, I'm not joking.

太疯狂了。所以当时现场还有移民和他的律师在看着你？

That's wild. So, like, there's, like, an an immigrant and their lawyer sitting there looking at you?

没错。而且...怎么说呢，那位律师后来在一个邮件列表里发了这件事。接下来的几天，人们开始给我转发他发出的邮件截图，内容大概是'各位，这太离谱了。IJ莉莉安在法官席上被解雇，事情是这样的...'这让整件事以一种非常公开的方式传播开来。

Yeah. And and and yeah. And for better or for worse, that lawyer then blasted out something on a listserv that I started in the following days, people started sending me screenshots of this email he'd sent out and it was, you know, y'all, this is wild. IJ Lillian was fired on the bench and this is what happened. And so that was also a little it just was so public in that way.

你知道吗？我当时全身都在发抖。法庭上经常会发生令人不安和沮丧的事情，揭露令人痛心的事实。而法官的职责就是维护法庭的尊严和礼仪，展现对当事人的尊重。我当时就是秉持着这样的原则，告诉了他们发生的事情。

You know? I was physically trembling and always in court disturbing and upsetting things happen, disturbing and upsetting facts come to light. And it is the job of the judge to maintain the dignity and decorum of the court and to show respect for the parties. And that's just where I went. And I told them what had happened.

当时我说，我会重新记录在案。我们确实这么做了。我向各方致歉，今天无法审理此案。法庭将另行通知新的听证日期。作为代理律师，请您向被告方说明我们今天无法举行听证会，对此我深表歉意。

And I said, I'm gonna get back on the record. And we did. And I said, my apologies to the parties. I'm not gonna be able to hear this case today. The court will reach out to you with a new hearing date and to respond as counsel, can you please explain to the respondent that we're not able to have a hearing today and I do apologize for that.

随后我们断开了连接。收到那条消息时，我内心的感受是解脱，因为数月来我一直如履薄冰。

And then we disconnected. My visceral feeling when I got that message was relief because I had been living on a knife's edge for months.

我接触的15名法官中，几乎都已不在司法部任职。少数人是在获得选择权后退休，但大多数是被直接解雇。除了那些简短的解雇信函，没人知道真正原因。部分人已提起诉讼。我们向移民审查办公室询问这些解雇事件。

Almost all of the 15 judges I talked to no longer work at the DOJ. A few retired when they were given the option, but most were just fired. None of them have real answers about why beyond those short letters. Some have sued. We asked EOIR about all these firings.

他们拒绝置评。拜登任内也有少量法官被解雇，当时许多共和党人认为这是政治丑闻。但公平地说，当前这种大规模人事调整是不同量级的。自特朗普政府上任以来，已有60多名法官被解雇，约40人辞职——这意味着特朗普上任前约700名法官中，已有近百人离职。最近政府正讨论引入600名军事律师担任临时法官，以加速处理积压案件。

They declined to comment. Under Biden, a small number of judges were also let go, and that was seen as political and scandalous then to many Republicans. It's fair to say though that the kind of mass reshaping that's happening now is on a different level. Since the Trump administration began, more than 60 judges have been let go and around 40 resigned, which means that out of the roughly 700 judges we had pre Trump, about a 100 are gone. Recently, the administration has been talking about bringing in 600 military lawyers to serve as temporary judges to speed through the backlog.

我们采访的现任法官担心，这些新法官缺乏足够培训，最终只会对政府要求照单全批。如果这一切听起来像是特朗普政府试图削弱移民法庭权力并加以控制——有些人认为这早就该做了。我们采访了ICE纽约分部前副主任斯科特·米科夫斯基，他担任遣返官员27年，专职追查非法移民并实施驱逐。

Sitting judges we've talked to say they're worried that these new judges won't get enough training, so they'll just rubber stamp anything the administration wants. If all this sounds like the Trump administration is trying to reduce the power of the immigration court and bring it to heel, Well, some people think that's way overdue. We talked to Scott Mikowski, former deputy head of ICE, New York. He was the removal officer for twenty seven years. His job was to find immigrants who were here illegally and deport them.

在他看来，主要阻碍正是移民法庭。我的同事佐伊·蔡斯采访了斯科特。

And the way he sees it, the main thing that got in his way, immigration courts. My colleague Zoe Chase talked to Scott.

听着，首先，他妈的听证会可能拖上三四年才开庭。等到了法庭，法官就问：你有律师吗？没有？好吧。

Okay. First off, man, it could have been three, four, five years before somebody has a fucking hearing. And then they go to court, and the judge would be like, well, you have an attorney? No. Okay.

我们会休庭，大概九个月吧，直到你找到律师。对吧？他们请了律师后，然后又说，你知道吗？我想撤销这位律师。好吧。

We're gonna adjourn for, you know, nine months until you find an attorney. Right? They get the attorney, then they go, you know what? I wanna withdraw this counsel. Okay.

我再给你九个月。有些案子他妈的一延再延，年复一年。对吧？美国民众根本不明白这些。

I'll give you another nine months. Like, there's cases that have been fucking recalendar for years for years. Right? And the American people don't understand that.

是啊。他们就说，2029年2月3日再来吧，或者类似这样的话。

Yeah. They're like, come back 02/03/2029 or something like that.

没错，佐伊。问题就在这儿。当你被拘留时，可没这些破事。没人会让你在押一年半、两年才等到下次听证。懂我意思吗？

Yes, Zoe. That's exactly the issue. Now when you're being detained, there is none of that shit. No one's gonna leave you in custody for a year and a half, two years before your next hearing date. You know what I mean?

现在你还能折腾，继续搞什么上诉啊，这个那个的，然后继续被关着，他们确实这么干。

Now you can still fuck around and keep going, you know, I appeal. I do this. I wanna do that and stay in custody, which they do.

等等。我能不能直说，你的话让我觉得，似乎尽可能走完全部司法程序反而更简单

Wait. So can I just say what I feel like that like, what you're saying is making me think is it's easier just to do the whole process, as much of the process as you can

对吧？

Right?

在拘留环境中。

In a detention setting.

没错。

Yep.

因为这样你就能掌控全局，最终那个人确实会被遣送。

Because then you have control over the whole thing, and the person will actually be removed at the end.

佐伊，一语中的。说对了。

Zoe, bingo. Bingo.

所以这就是我们目睹现状的原因。

So that's why we're seeing what we're seeing.

正是如此。听着，唯一能确保遣返的机制，我再强调一次，就是拘留。我知道这话不好听。

That's exactly why. Okay. Look. The only mechanism, and I'll tell you again, right, to ensure removal is detention. I I know it sucks to hear that.

对吧？确实如此。

Right? Like Yeah. Like does.

假设你在法庭上败诉了，斯科特说，你就会被驱逐出境。他们不会直接把你扔上飞机。你走出法庭后，政府会给你发一封信：亲爱的某某，你已被命令于某日被驱逐。

Say you're in court and you lose your case, Scott says. You're deportable. They don't just throw you on a plane. You walk out of the courtroom, government sends you a letter. Dear so and so, you've been ordered deported on this date.

请于三十天后携带不超过44磅的行李来我办公室报到，以便执行驱逐。可想而知，大多数人不会出现。但斯科特说，如果他们被拘留，事情就简单了。ICE可以直接驱逐他们。所以他建议，任何有移民案件的人，干脆把他们关进拘留所，在那里处理整个流程。

Please show up at my office in thirty days with one bag weighing no more than 44 pounds for your removal. As you can imagine, most people don't show up. But if they were in detention, Scott says, easy. ICE can just deport them. So he says, anyone with an immigration case, let's just get them into detention and do the whole thing from there.

前纽约市移民法官詹妮弗·德金认为，这些备忘录和政策调整的最终目的正是如此。

The way Former New York City immigration judge Jennifer Durkin sees this, this is exactly what the memos and policy changes are adding up to.

拘留本身就是目的。他们会说这是为了更高效有序地审理案件，但我认为拘留及其对人施加的限制才是关键。

Detention is the point. I mean, they'll say it's too efficiently and orderly, I guess, decide the cases. But I think detention and the constraints that that places on people is the point.

因为这样一来，人们可能会想'算了'而选择自愿离境——即便在最好的条件下，拘留生活也很糟糕。如果他们不自愿离境，政府就会代劳。我在报道这个故事时花了很多时间拼凑线索，试图理解这一切意味着什么：特朗普政府究竟想把移民法庭变成什么？

Because then people will, like, be, like, Yeah. They'll self deport because being in detention is terrible even in the best of circumstances. Or if they don't, the government will do the job for them. I spent a lot of time while I was reporting this story, trying to put together the puzzle pieces and see what this all adds up to. What does the Trump administration want the immigration courts to be?

最终我认为事情并不复杂。特朗普承诺过大规模驱逐，所以他正在设法让法庭不成为阻碍。他的团队擅长这种事——拉动所有可用的操纵杆，向每个机构展示其权力的边界。如果法官成为障碍，就像大规模驱逐机器齿轮中的扳手，那也没关系。有几种方法可以迫使法官配合驱逐令。

In the end, I don't think it's that complicated. Trump made a promise of mass deportations, so he's finding a way for the courts to not get in the way. His people are good at this sort of thing, pulling any lever available to them, showing every institution exactly where their power ends. And if judges are the obstacle, like wrenches in the gears of the mass deportation machine, that's no problem. There are a few ways to put pressure on a judge to cosign on deportations.

你可以改变程序规则——那些备忘录就是这么做的；你可以用解雇威胁来恐吓，每隔几周就放出新的解雇风声；而如果你掌管司法部，还有个更干净利落、直接有效的方法：修改判例法。

You can change procedure, the rules of the court. That's what the memos did. You can intimidate the firings, the threat of more firings coming up every few weeks. And there's one more cleaner, more direct and effective way if you run the DOJ. Change the case law.

确立新的法律先例。这些先例法官现在必须遵循，这正是特朗普政府的司法部一直在做的。自三月以来，移民上诉委员会的裁决如暴风骤雨般快速出台，为现行运作方式设立了新的法律先例。例如，特朗普政府已缩小了符合庇护资格的案例范围，并大幅提高了证明难度。此外，或许最大的变化是，任何无证移民，即使正在走法律程序，即使已在美国生活十年，现在都可能被无限期拘留。

Set new legal precedents. Precedents that judges now have to follow, which is exactly what Trump's DOJ has been doing. Since March, decisions have been coming fast and furious out of the Board of Immigration Appeals, setting new legal precedents for how things will work now. For example, the Trump administration has narrowed the kinds of cases that are eligible for asylum and made it much harder to prove them. Also, maybe the biggest change, any undocumented person, even if they have a legal case in process, even if they've been in The US for a decade, they can now be detained indefinitely.

过去，你可以在案件审理期间缴纳保释金获释。现在，保释制度被取消。只有拘留。唯有拘留，可能涉及数百万人。从宏观角度看，这些重大变革已无人能提出异议——因为新政府上任一个月后，司法部就撤换了移民上诉委员会近半数法官。

Before, you could post bond and get out while you fight your case. Now, no more bond. Just detention. Nothing but detention, potentially for millions of people. And in a big picture way, there's no one left at the top to disagree with all these big changes because a month into the new administration, the DOJ removed nearly half the judges on the board of immigration appeals.

这些法官基本都是拜登任命的。因此所有新判例几乎完全符合特朗普的政策目标。而法官们自然必须遵守。假设一切如特朗普政府所愿，我们开始拘留更多人，让他们整个法律程序都在拘留中完成。那实际会是什么景象？

Everyone had been appointed under Biden pretty much. So all this new case law now matches the Trump policy objectives almost completely. And the judges, of course, have to adhere to it. So say this all works out the way the Trump administration seems to be hoping, and we start detaining more people and having them do their entire legal process from detention. What does that actually look like?

当所有原本在外处理的案件都被转入拘留体系，会产生什么结果？我想讲述一个被迫经历这种新规的人——他必须在这个'先拘留后处理'的新体系中摸索前行。这个案例来自我们故事开始的地方，纽约。我之所以详细讲述他的经历，是因为它既展现了特朗普政府政策的积极面——他的案件得到快速解决；同时也揭示了其弊端，这点我稍后会说明。

What's the result when you put all these cases inside that used to be outside? I wanna tell you about one person who had to do this, had to navigate this new world of detain now, figure it out from there. It's a case from where we started, New York. And the reason I wanna take you through his story is because it illustrates the positive side of what the Trump administration is doing. His case speeds to a quick resolution, and it also illustrates the downside, which I'll get to.

我们暂且称他为大卫。他是位寻求庇护者，来自厄瓜多尔。我通过电话采访了他。当我问及他在纽约仅五个月的生活时，请感受这段话的情绪——

I'm gonna call this person David. He's an asylum seeker. David's from Ecuador. I talked with him on the phone. When I asked him about his life in New York, which was only five months, listen to the feeling.

你能从他的语气中听出笑意。和许多同性恋前辈一样，大卫热爱纽约。他在这里很快乐。在厄瓜多尔时，他其实经营着一家变装俱乐部。

You can hear him smiling. David loved New York, like many gay men before him. He was happy here. Back in Ecuador, he actually ran this drag club.

时间到了

It's time

要打扮起来。这就是那个地方的名字。因为他说当你变装时，你会穿上高跟鞋，戴上假发，以及其他任何你想装扮的东西。大卫告诉我，在厄瓜多尔，同性恋并不像某些地方那样自动被判死刑。例如，那里有同性婚姻。

to get it on. That's the name of the place. Because he says when you do drag, you get on your heels, you get on your wig, and whatever else you wanna get on. David told me that in Ecuador, it's not an automatic death sentence to be gay like it is in some places. There's gay marriage, for example.

但对他来说，情况变得非常糟糕，因为他曾与一位未出柜的政客约会。分手后，那个人开始针对大卫。大卫认为是他派警察骚扰自己，还砸坏了他的车。于是大卫搬到了首都基多，以远离这个人。他说那个政客和他的手下跟踪他，把他打得非常严重，几小时后他在警察局醒来，不知道自己是怎么到那里的。

But for him, it got really bad there because he had dated a politician who was closeted. After they broke up, he came after David. David thinks he sent cops to harass him, smashed up his car. So David moved to the capital, Quito, to get away from this guy. And he says the politician and his people followed him, beat him up so badly, he woke up at the police station hours later, not knowing how he got there.

就在那一刻，大卫意识到，在厄瓜多尔任何地方都不安全。他决定离开。他按照我们政府所说的合法途径来到这里。他进入美国时没有违反任何法律，是通过边境检查站合法入境的。

This was the moment that David thought, I'm not safe anywhere in Ecuador. He decided to leave. And he did everything our government told him to do in order to come here the right way. He entered The United States without breaking any laws. He crossed at a border checkpoint, which is legal.

他使用官方政府应用程序预约过境时间，这正是当时我们告诉移民的做法。这意味着他等了几个月才轮到他。一旦来到这里，他就获得了工作许可。现在他正在完成申请居留的必要程序，一切都是光明正大的。

He used the official government app to schedule his crossing, which is how we told immigrants to do it at that time. It meant he waited for months till it was his turn. And once he was here, he had permission to work. And now he was going through the required process to stay. It was all above board.

大卫有个姐姐住在纽约。他33岁，在九个兄弟姐妹中排行第六。他决定去和姐姐同住，实现他的纽约梦，并找到了一份喜欢的工作，为一家连锁超市做市场营销。他还遇到了一个人。大卫说，他记得的第一件事是对方问他是否会英语，而他回答不会。

David has a sister who lives in New York. He's 33, number six out of nine siblings. He decided to go stay with her, live his New York dream, and he got a job he liked, doing marketing for a supermarket chain. And he met someone. David says, the first thing he remembers is he asked me if I could speak English, and I was like, nope.

后来成为他男友的那个人并未因此放弃。他和大卫坐在人行道上，借助谷歌翻译聊了好几个小时。大卫觉得他很可爱。他们开始约会。然后大卫收到了第一次移民法庭的开庭通知。

The man that would become his boyfriend didn't let that stop him. He sat on the sidewalk with David and Google Translate, and they talked for hours. David was like, he's cute. They started dating. And then David gets his first immigration court date.

这是6月4日在市中心法院举行的例行排期听证会。他想做好准备，所以提前去了法律诊所，获得了庇护申请的帮助，并制作了两份副本，一份自留，一份提交法官。但他看到新闻开始报道ICE在法院抓人的消息。"我害怕去，"大卫说，"但我男友坚持要我去。他说，你想走正规程序。"

It's a routine scheduling hearing at the courthouse downtown on June 4. He wants to be prepared, so ahead of time, he goes to a law clinic, gets help with his asylum application, makes two copies, one for himself, one for the judge. But he was watching the news and started to see that ICE was picking up people in the courthouse. I was afraid to go, David says, but my boyfriend insisted. He was like, you wanna do things the right way.

所以

So

听证会当天早晨，大卫穿上西装准备去上班。他原本希望一切顺利的话，听证会能很快结束，之后他就能直接去工作。他前往市中心，途中却遇到种种不祥之兆——比如早餐时服务员拒绝为他和他朋友服务，等待时间长得离谱。

David wakes up the morning of his hearing, puts on his suit to go to work. He was hoping if it all went well, it would just be a quick thing, and he'd go to work right after, and he heads downtown. He says there were bad signs along the way. Like at breakfast, they wouldn't serve him and his friends. It took forever.

接着他又失手打翻了一叠餐巾纸，纸片被风吹得到处都是，仿佛某种黑暗预兆。当他终于抵达法庭，在等候室坐下，轮到他时站到法官面前，递上两份庇护申请副本时，法官却拒绝接收。他听到国土安全部律师要求驳回他的案件。

And then he dropped all these napkins. They blew everywhere in the wind. It was like a dark omen. When he finally got to court, he sat in the waiting room, went in front of the judge when it was his turn, offered the two copies of his asylum application, and the judge didn't take them. He heard the DHS attorney ask for his case to be dismissed.

他听见法官同意了驳回请求。因为一直关注新闻，他明白这意味着什么。刚走出法庭，移民海关执法局的官员就给他戴上手铐，押送进电梯。"我整个人都懵了，"他说，"我只是正常走路而已。"

He heard the judge agree to the dismissal. Because he'd been watching the news, he knew what that meant. As soon as he walked out of the courtroom, ICE officers cuffed him and walked him to the elevator. I went into shock, he says. All I did was walk.

"我不知道接下来会发生什么，甚至不清楚正在发生什么。我感觉不到冷热，也感受不到悲喜，只剩一片空白。"他们用束缚带绑住我的腰、脚和双手，把我带到了停车场。大卫说："我抓住每个机会试图告诉男友情况，而最后那条让他至今难忘的信息是——我发短信说'他们把我带走了'。"

I didn't know what was going to happen, what was happening. I didn't feel hot or cold or sadness or happiness, just nothing. They cuffed my waist, my feet, my hands, and they took me down to the parking lot. I tried every time I could to tell my boyfriend what was going on, David says. And the last message that I sent him that he still can't forget is when I texted him, they're taking me.

大卫被关押在纽约联邦广场26号十楼三天。那里本应是临时拘留室，但整个夏天都成了实际上的拘留中心。所有相关报告都描述那里环境极其恶劣。大卫说拥挤到只能站着睡觉。之后他被转移到新泽西州纽瓦克的拘留中心。

David got held on the Tenth Floor at 26 Federal Plaza in New York for three days. There's a holding cell there that's supposed to be temporary, but the summer has become the de facto detention center. And all reports out of there say that it is rank. David says it was so packed in there, you could only sleep standing up. David then got sent to a detention center in Newark, New Jersey.

他在那里度过了约十天。期间不断要求移民局允许他进行"可信恐惧面谈"——这是庇护程序的第一步。"我反复强调已提交申请，并且害怕返回厄瓜多尔。"他说移民局官员要么沉默地盯着他，要么要求书面申请——他也照做了。

He would be there for about ten days. While he was there, he kept asking ICE to let him do a credible fear interview, which is one of the first steps in the asylum process. He was like, I had my application. I'm afraid to return to Ecuador. He says the ICE officers would just stare at him and not say anything back, or they would tell him to do it in writing, which he did.

没有任何回应。他从未获得面谈机会。按理说，只要提出申请就应立即安排面谈。ICE本应协助完成这一程序，但他们并不总是照章办事。法官和移民律师告诉我，这正是让被拘留者在羁押期间自行处理案件的最大难题之一。

There was no response. He never got an interview. Just to say, he's supposed to get one as soon as he asks. ICE is supposed to facilitate it, but that doesn't mean they always do. And this, judges and immigration lawyers told me, is one of the biggest problems with having people pursue their cases from inside detention.

ICE有时会无视法律程序，而被拘留者很难通过律师强制他们遵守。我们就大卫的所有指控询问ICE，包括他们为何无视其可信恐惧面谈请求。对方未予回应。六月某天，ICE将大卫押上飞机。他不知道自己将被送往何处，也无人告知。

ICE sometimes ignores the legal process, and the detainees don't have much access to a lawyer to force them to follow it. We asked ICE about all of David's claims, including how they ignored his request to get a credible fear interview. They didn't respond. One day in June, ICE put David on a flight. He didn't know where he was going, and no one told him.

他被带到路易斯安那州的拘留中心。许多纽约的案件当事人会被转送至南部的路易斯安那和得克萨斯，那里的法官极其严苛，判例法对拘留者更为不利，且拘留中心数量众多。大卫说那里人满为患，真的太多了。大通间里摆满双层床，卫生状况极其恶劣。

He was brought to a detention center in Louisiana. Lots of people with cases from New York get sent down south to Louisiana and Texas, where judges are extremely strict, the case law is harsher against detainees, and there are more detention centers. There are so many people there, David says. So many. Tons of bunk beds in one giant room, and it was super dirty.

他说那里热得令人窒息。因为高温难耐，所有人都只穿着内衣活动。新

It was unbearably hot, he says. Everyone hung out on their underwear because it was so hot. New

泽西。

Jersey.

大卫表示："我原本准备在新泽西忍耐下去，无论需要多久。但路易斯安那？我一秒钟都不愿多待。"

I was ready to put up with New Jersey, put up with that as long as I needed to, David says. But Louisiana? I didn't wanna be in Louisiana one more second.

-新泽西的拉斐尔？路易斯安那简直糟透了。他

-New Jersey Rafael? Louisiana is a rible. He

他说自己已准备好自我驱逐出境，却连是否拥有这项权利都不确定。两天后，移民海关执法局将他送上另一班飞机。他依然不知去向，直到降落时才明白——自己回到了厄瓜多尔。

says he was ready to self deport, but he didn't even think he'd have the right to do that. Two days later, ICE put him on another flight. Again, he didn't know where he was going. He found out when he landed. He was back in Ecuador.

一抵达厄瓜多尔，大卫就躲藏起来。他几乎足不出户，所有工作都通过手机电脑完成。他害怕那位政客前男友会找到他，因此我们无法透露他在厄瓜多尔的具体位置及真实姓名。当美国政府将他遣返至这个他认为最危险的国度时，大卫已陷入生死危机。他的律师告诉我，大卫的庇护案证据相当充分。

As soon as he got to Ecuador, David went into hiding. He barely leaves his house, does all of his work from his phone or computer. He's scared his ex boyfriend, the politician, will know where he is, which is why we can't tell you where in Ecuador he is or his real name. Because David is scared for his life now that our government returned him to the one country where he felt he was in the most danger. David's lawyer told me David's asylum case, pretty solid.

他逃离的是一个企图迫害他的政府，且持有相关事件证明文件。这正是移民法旨在保护的典型案例。至少，这完全值得通过法庭听证来裁定是非。但他未能获得这个机会——我们的政府将所有移民（无论案情强弱）批量拘押，任其自行摸索法律程序。因此大卫的遭遇，恰恰符合当前政府期望的处置方式。

He was fleeing a government that was actively trying to harm him, and he has documentation showing what happened. He's exactly the type of case she thinks the law is designed to protect. And at the very least, it's a case that deserves a hearing in front of a judge to figure out what's right. He never got to do that, though, because our government decided to sweep up all kinds of people, some with weak cases, some with strong cases, put them all in detention and leave them to figure out the legal process from there. So David's case went down the way the administration seems to want.

案件被迅速裁决，立即执行驱逐。全程仅三周左右。如此神速，只因跳过了正当法律程序环节。这正是我们现行移民体系逐渐呈现的新面貌，也是它正在演变成的模样。

It was decided quickly and he was deported right away. The whole thing took about three weeks. But it only went so fast because we skipped the part where he got due process. This is what our new immigration system is starting to look like right now. This is what it's becoming.

娜迪娅·韦曼是我们节目的制作人之一。顺带一提，大卫现已加入针对联邦政府法院拘留及程序正义的集体诉讼。就在本期节目制作尾声时，我们获悉又有五名法官遭解职。本期报道由娜迪娅·雷蒙德和佐伊·蔡斯主创，安吉拉·格瓦西协助，劳拉·斯塔尔切夫斯基担任编辑。

Nadia Wayman is one of the producers of our show. David, by the way, is now part of a lawsuit against the federal government about these courthouse detentions and due process. Just today, as we're finishing the show that you're listening to right now, we heard that five more judges got fired. Well, the program was reported and produced today by Nadia Raymond and Zoe Chase with help from Angela Gervasi. It was edited by Laura Starczewski.

本期节目制作团队包括：迈克尔·卡马特、苏珊娜·加巴德、卡西·豪利、塞斯·格林、特班·格洛布、凯瑟琳·雷·蒙多、斯通·尼尔森、瑞安·拉姆里、艾丽莎·希普、克里斯托弗·索塔拉、戴安·吴。执行主编萨拉·阿布德拉曼，高级编辑大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆，总编辑伊曼纽尔·巴里。特别鸣谢：库尔茨乐队的凯文·格雷格、特策利与普拉特律所、林赛·加扎、谢丽尔·戴维、艾莉森·卡特勒、本杰明·雷米、杰里米·德文、唐纳利·马克斯、伊丽莎白·杨、马特·奥布莱恩、布莱恩·朗尼根、RJ·霍尔曼、布列塔尼·迪克森、雅各布·巴蒂内兹、克里斯汀·凯普林格、劳伦·科斯塔斯，以及纽约法律援助组织的希瑟·贝茨、艾琳·莱希伦·梅尔尼克、约瑟夫·冈瑟、凯特琳·帕特勒、玛丽·乔治维茨，还有国家移民司法中心。

The people who put together today's show include Michael Kamate, Suzanne Gabbard, Cassie Howley, Seth Glynn, Turban Globe, Catherine Ray Mondo, Stone Nelson, Ryan Rummery, Alyssa Ship, Christopher Sotala, and Diane Wu. Our managing editor, Sara Abderraman. Our senior editors, David Kestenbaum. Our executive editor is Emmanuel Barry. Special thanks today to Kevin Gregg from Kurtz Band Kurtz Band, Tetzeli, and Pratt, Lindsey Gaza, Sheryl David, Alison Cutler, Benjamin Remy, Jeremy Devine, Donnelly Marks, Elizabeth Young, Matt O'Brien, Brian Lonergan, RJ Hallman, Brittany Dickerson, Jacob Bartinez, Kristen Keplinger, Lauren Kostas, and Heather Betts from the New York Legal Assistance Group, Erin Reichlen Melnick, Joseph Gunther, Caitlin Patler, Mary Georgievitz, and the National Immigrant Justice Center.

同时感谢所有向我们透露法庭内幕的前任移民法官。提醒听众：注册成为节目终身伙伴可享无广告收听、独家番外篇，以及250多期精选节目库直达播客订阅列表。当您需要优质内容时，随时可取。您的支持将助力我们持续制作此类深度调查——比如耗时数月追踪法官动向的项目。立即注册请访问thisamericanlife.org/lifepartners。

Also, thanks to all the other former immigration judges who talk to us about the court. A reminder that if you sign up to be a life partner with our program, you get ad free listening, you get bonus episodes, and you get an archive of over 250 greatest hits episodes right in your podcast feed. So anytime you need something to listen to, there's something good right there. And, of course, by becoming a life partner, you're helping us keep making this show, doing projects like this one where we're calling judges for months and months. To sign up, go to thisamericanlife.org/lifepartners.

《美国生活》由公共广播交换机构PRX向各公共电台传送。一如既往感谢我们节目的联合创始人托里·马拉提亚先生。从前有个农夫养了条狗，托里知道它的名字哦。

This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the public radio exchange. Thanks as always to our program's cofounder, mister Tory Malatia. There was a farmer, had a dog, and Tory knows his name o.

宾果。宾果。

Bingo. Bingo.

我是埃里克·格拉斯。下周将继续为您带来更多《美国生活》的故事。

I'm Eric Glass. Back next week with more stories of This American Life.