AEO与精子竞速赛（480）

所以我真正想知道的是，你拿到你的教皇利奥十四世交易卡了吗？

So what I really wanna know is, you get did you get your Pope Leo the fourteenth trading card?

我甚至不知道还有这种东西。

I I didn't even know there was such a thing.

你竟然不知道？哦，我以为你会——我知道你真的很喜欢体育收藏品

You didn't even oh, I thought you'd be I know that you're really into sports collectibles

之类的。对。对。是的。没错。

and everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

我超级喜欢体育收藏品的。确实。

I am so into sports collectibles. Yes.

不。那听好了。

No. So so listen to this.

好吧。

So Okay.

顶级品牌推出了特别限量版的第十四张波布里奥卡。

Tops tops comes out with a special special edition Poblio the fourteenth card.

是啊。

Yeah.

而且仅在头几天就售出了13.3万套，销量超过了任何其他特别版，甚至超过了大谷翔平特别版和勒布朗·詹姆斯特别版。

And they sold just in the first few days a 133,000 units, which is more than any other special edition, even Shohei Ohtani's special edition and LeBron James' special edition.

好吧。

Okay.

所以我不确定...对了，你注意到教皇是芝加哥白袜队的铁杆球迷了吗？

So I don't know. Yeah. Are you paying attention that, you know, the Pope is a big White Sox fan, Chicago White Sox?

当然当然。要我说，他可是真正的MVP，所以必须得为教皇欢呼。真不错——

Sure. Sure. Well, I guess, I I mean, you know, I mean, he is truly the MVP, so I guess you have to you have to throw it up for the pope. Good for

不过老兄，顶级品牌还在坚持用实体纸做交易卡呢。对吧。

tops though, man. Yeah. Still in. It's still like trading cards on actual paper. Right.

它们依然存在。

They're still a thing.

是啊。说到教皇，我的意思是，这就像...就像一张特别的宝可梦卡牌，如果你仔细想想的话。懂吗？你懂我的意思吗？

Yeah. And for the pope, I mean, it's like a it's it's it's like it's like a special Pokemon card if you think about it. You know? If you you know?

确实，简直一模一样。

It exact it's exactly like that.

没错。你有...

Yeah. You've got

我在想——这个想法可能有点过头——你觉得他们会不会取一点圣水？对，然后就像...他们实际上是在使用神圣元素？

I wonder if and I'm just coming up with this. This this could be too much, but do you think they take a little holy water? Yeah. And, like, put it on like, they actually are, like, sacred elements?

然后就像你知道的...所以你拿到了大谷翔平这张卡，本质上是因为你在野外见过他，现在你去野外见你的宝可梦，然后你...

It and it as you know and then so you've got your Shohei Atani, basically that card because you saw him in the wild, and now you go see your Pokemon in the wild and then you

宝可梦。

The Pokemon.

有宝可梦，然后你就能拿到你的卡片。

There's Pokemon, and then you get your card.

我们应该...我想把这一集命名为《宝可梦》。

We should just I I want the episode name to be Pokemon.

宝可梦。虽然...是的。

The Pokemon. Even though Yeah.

我觉得那是

I think that's

现在AI会玩得很开心。用教皇造一个...造一个...造一个宝可梦出来。

Now the AI would have a fun with that. Make a make a make a Pokemon out of the Pope.

宝可梦。好吧。这集剩下的时间我们就

Pokemon. Okay. For the rest of this episode, we'll just

编些关于教皇的蠢事。所以...就这样吧。

make up stupid stuff about the Pope. So I There you go.

就叫它宝可梦吧。不过我觉得挺好的。

Call this the Pokemon. I think it's good though.

我喜欢。只是提醒大家

I like it. Just remember everybody

每个人都有故事要讲。从这份老牌营销中讲好它。现在，为您带来普利兹和罗斯对本周媒体、营销及数字内容新闻的精彩解读——《老派营销》。交给你们了，伙计们。

has a story to tell. Tell it well from this old marketing. And now for your listening pleasure, here's Pulizzi and Rose covering the week of media, marketing, and digital content news. This old marketing. Take it away, boys.

嗯，

Well,

朋友们好。欢迎收听《老派营销》，由HubSpot播客网络为您呈现，专为商务人士打造的音频平台。我是罗伯特·罗斯，如你所听，我带着旅行后的沙哑嗓音——希望这调频广播般的音质还算悦耳。欢迎来到2025年5月16日周五的第480期节目。和往常一样，与我搭档的是我的老友兼同事——那位绝对会乘坐卡塔尔豪华747客机的乔·普利兹先生。

hello, friends. Welcome to This Old Marketing proudly brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. And I'm Robert Rose with I've got, well, travel voice as you can hear, and, hopefully, it sounds good, my FM radio voice. Anyway, welcome to episode number 480 for Friday, 05/16/2025. And with me as usual is my pal, my colleague, and a guy who would totally take a luxury seven forty seven airliner from Qatar, mister Joe Palizzi.

知道吗，我们俩都在提前录音。

You know, we're we're both recording early.

是啊。

Yeah.

是啊是啊，我们有清晨播客的嗓音和形象。

Yeah. Yeah. We have we have early morning podcast voice and look.

没错。对。今天我肯定得戴帽子，因为

There you go. Yeah. That definitely I have to have a hat on today because it's

今天是必须戴帽日。但你看起来，你刚结束这个...我特别喜欢每年的这个时候，因为能听到这些精彩故事。对。你现在人在哪里？

It's it's it's it's necessary hat day. But you're, like, you're coming off this I I love this time of year because you get these great stories. Yeah. You have your little where are you right now?

现在如你所见，我在犹他州桑丹斯的一间山间小屋里，山上WiFi出奇地好。从上周日抵达直到今天离开，这几天我一直在参加一个年度智囊团聚会——你听我念叨过无数次了，这个我坚持了十二年的年度聚会。来的都是各领域翘楚，约三四十人，大多来自投资界。

So right now, as you can see, I'm in a little mountain cottage, here in Sundance, Utah, up in the mountains with oddly good WiFi. And so I have been spending the last few days since really I got in Sunday and then I leave today At a yearly mastermind that I do, you've heard me talk about it incessantly, that I do every year with a group of people that I've been doing this for the last twelve years. And I come up here. It's 30 or 40 people who are luminaries in their field. Most of them in the investment world.

他们大多是那种，你知道的，大型对冲基金经理、财务顾问、投资组合经理、CIO（首席投资官）。对。但主办方还邀请了许多其他人士，比如世界顶尖拉比、杰出画家、瑜伽导师等等。

Most of them sort of, you know, big hedge fund managers, financial advisers, portfolio managers, CIOs, meaning chief investment officers. Yeah. But also, he he brings in the organizer of this event brings in he brings in a bunch of other people that are just you know, there's a there's a one of the, you know, world's leading rabbis is here. There's a amazing, you know, artist, painter. There's, you know, yoga instructors.

都是各行各业的顶尖人物。我都不知道自己是走了什么运被邀请来的。

I mean, just people from all walks of life that are really just very accomplished in their careers. How do how do you I don't know how the hell I got invited. Yes. Get in this.

没错。我听着就觉得，罗伯特·罗斯算哪根葱？

Exactly. I'm listening to this. I'm like, what is Robert Rose?

在某个时候，是的，在某个时候，我想我提出了加入的理由，因为我对技术，特别是营销技术略知一二。所以以前轮到我发言时，我几乎只谈营销技术的趋势和现状。但现在当然，很多是关于AI的。不过大部分

At some point, yeah, at some point, I I think I made the case for, you know, for coming in because I knew a little bit about technology and specifically marketing technology. And so I used to talk almost when I when it's my turn to talk, I used to talk exclusively about marketing technology and the trends and what are going on here. But now and and and now, of course, a lot of AI. But but most

你现在就像是资深委员了。

You're on, like, the veterans committee now.

是的。嗯，我确实赢得了——用他们的话说——我确实赢得了我的资历。是的。

Yes. Well, I have earned yes. I have earned my I have earned my stripes as they say. Yes.

是啊。你就像赢得了绿夹克，所以总是被邀请回来参加晚宴。

Yeah. You always get like, you won the green jacket, so you're always invited back to the dinner.

没错。

That's right.

那种

That that kind

情况。就是这样。其实就是坚持，基本上赖着不走直到他们把我赶出去。对吧？所以是的。

of thing. That's that's all it is. And it's just persistence and basically hanging around before they'll kick me out. Right? So yeah.

究竟是什么吸引了人们的注意力？关键问题是什么？是人工智能吗？还是其他因素？到底什么是关键

What was the over so acquiring minds. What was the big issue? Was it AI? Was it something else? Like, what what was the big

问题？这两大议题中，人工智能当然是核心焦点，但有趣的是，人们讨论的不是AI的营销价值，而是AI的应用层面——几乎没人谈论用它写博客、研究报告或思想领袖文章，这类话题几乎不存在。

issue? Was it it did the two big issue AI was front and center, of course, but it was interesting. It was AI not as a marketing thing. It was it was the usage of AI beyond sort of, you know, there was very little talk about having it write blog posts or research reports or thought leader. There was, I mean, almost none of that.

更多讨论集中在AI作为伴侣、顾问的角色，以及AI如何改变投资未来、如何替代某些职业（比如法律和会计等传统行业工作）。我们对此进行了大量探讨。另一个重要主题是当前地缘政治带来的不确定性，我们花了很多时间讨论这种不确定性对市场的影响。

It was much more of talk around AI as companion, AI as, you know, adviser, AI as a way to look at the future of investing, AI as a way of of of sort of providing replacements for whether it's, you know, entire professions like legal and, you know, and accounting sort of doing those those those kinds of jobs. So we were talking a lot about that. And then the other thing that was the big theme was, of course, all the uncertainty that's going on right now because of geopolitical stuff. Right? So we talked a lot about where uncertainty was leaving the markets.

具体来说，虽然表面上在讨论关税，但实质是决策不确定性让大公司CEO们陷入困境——由于形势变幻莫测，他们无法做出重大投资决策，因为根本无法预测未来走向。

We you know, where, you know, sort of tariffs and and really not tariffs, but really the uncertainty about the decisions that are getting made and where that leaves big company CEOs a bit in a trap because they can't really make, you know, big capital investments with with any level of of certainty because they just don't know what's gonna happen because it's so capricious right now.

在所有这些背景下，整体氛围如何？主要是积极的还是

What was this so with all that, what's the sentiment? Was it mostly positive? Was

紧张不安的？确实...不，应该说很微妙。

it nervous? It was. Yeah. No. It was strange.

其实非常积极。而且这种积极情绪似乎已成常态，对吧？

Okay. Yeah. It was it was it was it was very positive, actually. And and it and it tends to be. Right?

我们这个团队总体上是乐观派。所以并没有太多绝望或灾难性的情绪，我们讨论过这个问题，比如可能会发生什么样的灾难？我们专门开了一个会讨论各种可能性，如果情况恶化会怎样。但真正让我觉得有趣的是，大家对不确定性、关税问题以及特朗普政府的态度基本都是'这也会过去'。他们从那些低调但举足轻重的CEO和高管那里听到的都是——不是扎克伯格、贝索斯那种明星企业家，而是制造业、医疗保健、金融服务等领域大企业的高层——他们说我们只需要挺过去。

We the group tends to be a glasses half full group. So there's not a lot of despair or sort of, you know, disaster sort of I mean, and we talked about that, like, you know, what are what could what, you know, what could becoming disasters look like? You know, so we had a whole session on, like, you know, where where could it go and if it went in a in a it it went sideways. And then really the the interesting thing to me was that that the overall sentiment around the uncertainty and the tariffs and all that kind of stuff and, you know, the Trump and, you know, and and the administration was mostly like this too shall pass. It was it was that that's what they're hearing from, like, not your sort of celebrity CEOs, not the Zuckerbergs or the Bezoses or those kinds of folks, but what they're hearing from sort of very quiet but big CEOs and executives that are that are in these big, you know, manufacturing companies, health care companies, financial services companies is it's it's we just have to ride it out.

你必须挺过去，必须面对所有现实问题，比如有人被遣送到萨尔瓦多这类事情。但从虚张声势的角度看，大部分都是雷声大雨点小，你只能接受这个人在中饱私囊的事实，他就是个骗子。

You have to ride it out, you know, and and you have to you have to deal with all of the reality stuff, you know, people getting shipped off to El Salvador and those sorts of things. But in from the bluster stand, it's mostly bluster, and you just have to sort of get over the fact that the guy's enriching himself, that, you know, that he's a grifter.

是的。我只是不确定他们是否认为当前正在造成永久性损害，而不仅仅是关于...

Yeah. I just didn't know if there there was this feeling that there was a permanent damage being made currently, not just about the

对此的普遍看法是否定的。事情还在发展。对，对。

The sentiment's on that was no. Things going on. Yeah. Yeah.

他们认为这只是个小波折。我们会度过的。

They feel that this is just a blip. We will get through it.

没错。

That's right.

而且他们没提到这个——幸好我不在场，不然我肯定会问：他们的地堡物资是从哪儿采购的？

And they're not talking about like, it's a good thing I wasn't there because I would be asking, like, where are they getting their bunker supplies?

比如，在半夜时分进来

Like, coming in the middle of the

这样就不会被发现，然后找个地方在地上挖个洞。这就是我想知道的，因为我敢打赌他们中有一半人都有地堡。不是说他们都是男的，但他们是全男的吗？不是。

night so it's not on the radar and dig the hole in the ground somewhere. That's what I would wanna know because I I bet you half those guys have bunkers. Not that they're all guys, but I are they all guys? No.

不是。男女比例很均衡。是的，非常、非常均衡。对。

No. It's a good mix. Yeah. It's it's it's a very, very good mix. Yeah.

听到这消息真棒。

Wonderful to hear that.

既有文化多样性，也有性别多样性。

Cultural diversity as well as gender diversity.

太棒了。不过我打赌他们全都有地堡。

Excellent. But I bet you they all have their bunkers.

他们...他们很多人确实有。不过我要告诉你，当你跟这些人提起地堡时，这正好完美衔接到你本周的主题——他们全都是高尔夫狂热爱好者。所有人，所有人都是。

They well, they many of them do. And but I will tell you, when you say bunker to these guys, and it segues very nicely into your week, which is all of them all of them are golf fanatics. Like, all like

当然。

Of course.

就像，我是那里的异类。我去的时候根本不在乎高尔夫，他们都觉得，呃，你简直疯了。我是说，他们这里的人超爱高尔夫。

Like, I'm the outlier there. Like, when I go, I don't give a shit about golf. They're all like, ugh. You're absolutely insane. You're you're I mean, they love golf here.

嗯，是的。他们应该这样，因为这是世界性的运动。

Well, yes. As they should because it is the world sport.

确实如此。他们会全心全意赞同你的。是的，他们会全心全意赞同你。

It it really is. They would agree with you wholeheartedly. Yeah. They would agree with you wholeheartedly.

有次我和我最小的孩子聊过，因为他们问我，嘿，高尔夫这玩意儿是怎么回事？

I had a conversation with my youngest at one time because they were telling me, hey. What's with the whole golf thing?

这是

This is

有点傻。我就说，信不信由你，关系就是在那里建立的，生意也是在那里谈成的。是啊，我是说，出去打球时其实不会直接谈生意，但基本上过程就是：你们一起打球，互相了解，玩得很开心，然后回来喝一杯或吃个午饭什么的，之后才开始谈正事。

kinda silly. And I'm like, believe it or not, like, that's where that's where relationships are built and and, like, business is done. Yeah. I've done so I mean, just going out because you don't really talk about business on the golf course, but, basically, what happens, you go out, you get to know the person, you have a great time, and then you come back in and you catch a drink or lunch or whatever the case is, and then you talk about.

对，正是如此。

Right. Exactly.

而且如果你和某人一起打高尔夫，你们之间就会永远保持一种奇怪的关系，因为他们见过你在沙坑里击球，那真是

And you've built if you golf with somebody, you forever have some kind of a weird relationship because they've seen you hit out of sand, which is a

挺傻的一件事。

silly thing.

就是把一个小白球从沙子里打出来而已，但...但那种感觉...我不知道。这成了他们了解你的一种深刻方式，比如你怎么从沙坑击球。你是铲了太多沙子吗？还是直接把球打出来？一旦他们知道这些，他们就真正了解你了。

It's just a you you a little white ball out of sand, but but that's kind of a I don't know. It's it's a deep thing that they know about you now, like, how you hit out of. Do do you take too much sand? Do you hit the ball out of like, once they know that, they know you.

你认识...你认识一个叫莫·皮肯斯的人吗？

Do you know do you know do you know do you know a guy by the name of Moe Pickens?

我不认识。

I do not. No.

他是一位教练，我绝对没有要诋毁他的意思。他完全不会介意我提起他。他是个非常、非常、非常好的人。莫·皮肯斯是个成就斐然的高尔夫教练，指导过许多大师赛冠军选手。

He is a coach, and I'm not throwing him under the bus here by any stretch of the imagination. He would not care at all that I'm that I'm that I'm bringing him up. He's a lovely, lovely, lovely man. So Moe Pickens is, largely he he's a very accomplished golf coach. He coaches many of the champions at the masters.

他大概同时有四五个客户，主要是在教那些年轻有潜力的高尔夫球手，而且他以高尔夫心理学闻名。他说过，在沙坑击球和推杆之间，如果只能练习一项，那就练推杆。

And and so he's got, you know, probably four or five clients at any one time. He's teaching, you know, teaching basically the young, the up and coming golfers for the most part, and and he's known for his golf psychology. Right? And one of the things he talks about is, the difference between hitting it out of the bunker and getting good at putting. He said and and it's according to him, I have no way to test the veracity of this, but he said, if you can practice only one thing, he said, practice putting.

他说，一切都关乎推杆。你只会偶尔遇到几次沙坑击球的情况，必须随机应变。真正的信心建立在于推杆。

He said, everything. Everything is putting. He said, you'll only hit it out of the bunker or the sand a few times. He said, and so, you know, you're just gonna have to deal with that. He said, the confidence building is in putting.

这太对了。业余球手如果有时间去练习场，他们总是先挥杆打远距离球，用各种球杆击球。但他们真正该做的是花一小时练推杆。

That's that is so true because if you take an amateur golfer and they have time to, like, go to the practice range and hit, they'll start hitting balls and hit the driver. They'll hit all Yeah. Clubs. But what they should do is spend an hour putting.

没错，他正是这么说的。

That's right. That's exactly what he said.

那才是进步最大的地方。当然，我自己也在练习场用球道木开球...

That's where you can get the most improvement. And and, of course, I'm at the range hitting the driver off the deck. That's

对，那种击球声确实让人很满足。

Right. That's very satisfying. It's very satisfying to hear that whack.

不过你提起高尔夫这个话题的原因是...

But the reason why you brought the whole golf thing up

是的。

Yes.

没错。我们举办了橙效基金会第六届百洞高尔夫马拉松。今年有32位高尔夫球手参加，哇，总共打了100个洞。我的搭档吉姆·科扎克和我，我们用了大约12小时30分钟完成。

Exactly. We had our Orange Effect Foundation and sixth annual hundred hole golf marathon. We had 32 golfers this year Wow. That made it a 100 holes. Jim Kozak, my partner, and I, we did it in about twelve hours and thirty minutes.

我们

We

太棒了。

That's amazing.

我们其实表现得相当不错。我想我们低于标准杆21杆，基本上是双人争夺赛的成绩。

We actually did quite well. I think we were 21 under, which is basically a two person scramble.

是啊。

Yeah.

而且我们有很多自由发挥的空间，这样大家能加快速度。比如没有罚杆，球打进水里就重新抛球，一切以速度为主。

And we get a lot of leeway so that people can go fast. Like there's no penalty strokes. You hit it in the water, you drop it. Like it's all about speed.

是啊。当然。但是

Yeah. Sure. But

我们今年筹集了更多资金。感谢大家的支持。我们筹集的资金比以往任何时候都多。我们将能为孩子们提供许多优质的语言治疗和技术支持。尤其是在当前，因为保险通常不涵盖这些项目。

we raised more money this year. Thank you for all your support. We raised more money than we ever had before. We're gonna be able to give so many wonderful speech therapy and speech technology to kids. Especially right now because insurance doesn't cover a lot of these things.

过去多年存在的许多支持项目现在已经不复存在。因此像橙效基金会这样的组织，我们就像是最后的资助方，确保这些孩子——要知道早期干预才是关键，各位。如果孩子在两岁、三岁或四岁时存在语言障碍，就必须立即解决这个问题，这样他们未来才能做任何想做的事。

There's a lot of the of the support that's been out there the past many years that's not out there anymore. So there's organizations like Orange Effect Foundation, and we're like a funder of last resort where we're necessary to make sure that these kids who, you know, early intervention is is the way to do it, folks. If they if you have a speech issue and you're age two, three, or four, you've got to attack that issue now so the kids can do whatever they need to do in the future.

100%同意。

100%.

这就是我们的工作——我们已经向39个州的430多名孩子发放了资助金。

So that's what we've been doing when we got grants out to over 430 kids in 39 states.

天啊。这太棒了。太了不起了。

My god. That's amazing. That's amazing.

令人惊叹的是这一切始于2007年的一场小型高尔夫活动，而今天我们已走到这一步。那是我们的第六次活动，现在它已成为我们最大的筹款活动，因为所有高尔夫球手都亲自参与筹款。

It's amazing that it started with a little golf event in 2007, and, and here we are today. So that was our sixth event. It's it's become our biggest fundraiser, which is it because all the golfers fundraise themselves.

是的，当然。必须的

Yeah. Of course. Have to

筹集最低金额才能打高尔夫，我就是喜欢这种情况，而且我不必全部亲力亲为。对。没错。就像我们另一项常规活动——即将在八月举办的第十九届年度高尔夫自闭症慈善赛一样。

raise a minimum amount of money to be able to golf, and it's I just love that that that happens and also that I don't have to do it all. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Everything like the other event, which is our regular, golfer autism, which is the nineteenth annual coming up in August.

大部分工作都由董事会完成。是的。虽然不多，但还是谢谢你的关心。我们玩得很开心。

Most of that's just done by the board. Yeah. That's a little bit but thank you for asking. Yeah. We had a great time.

天气真好。俄亥俄州克利夫兰，一流的球场——伊利里亚乡村俱乐部。他们总是这么棒。

Beautiful weather. Cleveland, Ohio. A a great course. Illyria country club. They're always so wonderful.

我们在那里举办活动已经超过十年了。每一届马拉松赛都在伊利里亚举办。总之，谢谢关心，那次活动非常棒。

We've had that out there. Our events out there for over ten years now. This one, every marathon has been out at Elyria. So, anyways, thank you for asking. It was it was wonderful.

明年还会继续。所以如果有哪位疯狂的听众想一天打100个洞，来克利夫兰和伊利里亚参加，尽管联系我。

Do it next year too. So if any crazy people listening to this, you wanna go up a 100 holes in a day and come to Cleveland and Elyria and do that, just let me know. Hit me up.

那绝对会让人痛苦不堪，但我...我会我会捐款并远远地围观。

It absolutely miserable, but I'm I I will I will watch I will donate and watch from afar.

我妻子帕姆主要负责照顾所有打高尔夫的人，你知道的，比如在球场期间你需要喝点什么之类的。她说当球手打到第40洞左右时，那些新球手就会说‘我受够了，这简直蠢透了，我再也不会玩这个了’。

So so my wife, Pam, she's basically she she takes care of all the golfers while, you know, you need something to drink, whatever during the during the course. She says as the golfers are coming through about hole 40, the new golfer, they're done. They're like, I'm done. This is the stupidest thing ever. I'm never gonna do this again.

然后她说，信不信由你，等他们打到80洞左右时，就会说‘这是我人生中最棒的一天，我绝对会再来’。所以这中间发生了某种转变。

And then she says, believe it or not, they get to about hole 80, and they'll say, this is the best day of my life. I'm definitely coming back. And so it's something happens

是啊，在40洞到80洞之间。

Yeah. Where Between forty and eighty.

就是在40到80洞之间你改变了想法。就像...痛苦消失了，你麻木了。对吧。

Where they're between forty and eighty that you change your mind. You're just like like, the pain is gone, and you're numb. So Right.

没错没错，你会变得麻木。

That's right. That's right. That's right. You get numb to it.

你麻木了，不过...是啊。

You numb to it, but anyways. Yeah.

好吧。说到麻木，我们有个很棒的节目要让听众麻木。我们要从重磅故事开始，讲的是我们的朋友马克·扎克伯格。他正在打响广告末日的第一枪。

Alright. Well, so yeah. Of being numb, yeah, we got a we got a great show, to make people numb with. We have, we're gonna start with our big story, which is gonna be all about our friend Mark Zuckerberg. He is firing the first shot when it comes to the adpocalypse.

他要干掉广告公司。扎克伯格基本上对所有广告公司说：谢谢你们的服务。现在请让开，因为我们要接管了。我们会稍微聊聊这个话题。

He's gonna take out ad agencies. Zuck basically told every ad agency, yeah. Thanks for your service. Now get out of the way because we're gonna take over. We'll talk a little bit about that.

接着BBC正在为打击虚假信息和重建信任而战，这非常有趣。BBC将对假新闻发起全面攻势，同时对抗AI垃圾信息以及各种错误和虚假信息，为他们点赞，我们也会讨论这个话题。然后Max又双叒叕回来了。没错，HBO基本上把Max品牌又改回了HBO Max，我们会从品牌营销角度聊聊这个变化。说不定我们还会讨论网站是不是新传真机这个话题。

Then the BBC is taking on the fight for disinformation and trust, and it's really interesting. The BBC is gonna launch a full court press on fake news, and try and fight the AI slop as well as the misinformation and disinformation out there, and kudos to them, and we'll talk about that. Then Max is back again, again, again, again. HBO, yes, has changed basically the branding for Max, to HBO Max again, and we'll talk a little bit about that from a branding and marketing perspective and what's going on there. Then maybe we'll get to the fact that we're gonna talk about websites or the new fax machine.

没错。网站已死？我们将通过《华尔街日报》的一篇文章来探讨AI如何正在改写网站规则及其可能带来的影响。然后是胜负盘点环节，我会聊聊华纳兄弟探索公司——他们在新预售会上推出了所谓'故事宇宙'的概念，我们会讨论这个营销创意。乔要聊聊Nutter Butter花生酱，我迫不及待想听他的高见。

That's right. Are websites dead? We will talk, through an article in the Wall Street Journal that's gonna talk about how AI is now writing rewriting the rules around websites and what that might mean. Then we'll get to our winners and losers sections where I'm going to talk a little bit about Warner Brothers Discovery, where they, at the new upfronts, basically launched something they're calling the story verse, which, you know, we'll talk a little bit about what that is and how it might, you know, really be, an interesting marketing idea. Joe is gonna talk about the idea of Nutter Butter, and I can't wait to hear what he has to say about Nutter Butter.

接着进入吐槽与赞美环节，我要开喷了（不确定是吐槽还是评论，走着瞧）。基本上就是SEO已死，AEO万岁。AIEO还是AIEIO？或者你知道的，宾果游戏——

Then we'll get to our rants and raves, and I'm going to rant. I don't know if if it's a rant or if it's commentary. We'll find out. Basically, SEO is dead and long live AEO. A I e o or a I e I o or, you know, bingo is

他的名字是O。没错。喵。他们就应该这样。你的...我是嚎叫修行者。

his name o. Yeah. Meow. They should just be like that. How is your I'm a yowl practitioner.

我是...我是嚎叫修行者。这个——

I'm a I'm a yowl practitioner. The

嗷~嚎叫~猫头鹰~你以什么为生？我是嚎叫大师。

ow. Yowl. Owl. What do you do for living? I'm a yowl.

我正在热烈讨论。好的。然后呢，乔会稍微聊聊——我们就称之为‘精子赛跑’吧，节目最后你们就会明白这是什么意思。哦，对了。

I'm a poppin' on yowl. Okay. And then what and then Joe is gonna rave a little bit about, well, let's just call it sperm racing and let you wait till the end of the show to find out what that's all about. Oh, yeah.

我们终于要在节目里谈到精子这个话题了，这可是期待已久的。

We're talk about time we bring sperm into this show. It's been a long time coming for us.

没错，完全正确。我们都是强壮的‘游泳选手’，就像它们一样。好了，来看我们的第一条新闻，由The Verge提供。

That's right. That is right. There's we're we are strong swimmers as they were. Okay. Let's get to our first story here, which is coming to us courtesy of The Verge.

大新闻来了——过去几周除了特朗普登上他的飞机外，就是马克·扎克伯格刚刚向整个广告业宣战了，The Verge这么说。扎克对无限创意的构想可能彻底颠覆现有广告技术栈及其运作方式。文章开篇就指出，广告业即将被AI颠覆已不是秘密。像谷歌和Meta这样的大平台公司之所以重金投入图像和视频生成技术，正是因为它们知道这些工具的首批重度用户将是平台上的广告商。但此前从未有人直接挑明，直到今天Meta CEO马克·扎克伯格与Strathecuri的本·汤普森对谈时（顺便说这播客很棒）才直言不讳。

Big story, over the last couple of weeks other than, Trump getting in his airplane, is that Mark Zuckerberg has just declared war on the entire advertising industry, so says The Verge. Zuck's vision for infinite creative could wipe out the way for whole ad stack, and the way it works. So, the article opens up by saying it's not really a secret that the advertising industry is about to get upended by AI. One reason big platform companies like Google and Meta have been so deeply invested in photo and video generation is because is because they know that first heavy users of those tools will be advertisers on their platforms. But no one's ever really just come right out and said it until today when Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg sat down with Strathecuri's Ben Thompson, great podcast by the way.

是啊，超爱那个播客。

Yeah. Love that podcast.

确实是个很棒的播客。他非常聪明。他基本上表示计划要逐步淘汰从创意端开始的整个广告生态系统。原话是这样的：

It's a great podcast. Yeah. He's he's he's very smart. And basically said his plan was to more or less eliminate the entire advertising ecosystem from creative on down. Here's the quote.

扎克谈到AI已经改善了广告定向，但现在Meta开始考虑广告本身。他说：‘但还有创意部分。基本上企业来找我们时，他们对自己的信息、视频或图像有概念，但制作起来相当困难。我们认为我们已非常接近突破——制作得越多越好，因为这样就能测试效果。如果能无限生成创意，或许就能解决创造力问题。’

Zuck was talking about how AI has already improved ad targeting, but now now Meta is thinking about them ads themselves. And Zuckerberg said, quote, but there's still the creative piece. That is basically businesses come to us and they've got a sense of what their message is or what their video is of their image, and it's pretty hard to produce, and we think we're pretty close. And the more they produce, the better because then you can test it, see what works. Well, if you could just do that an infinite number, you might solve the creativity problem.

文章接着谈到，他在这里描述的实际上是一个愿景：客户只需向Meta提供他们的核心信息，Meta就能包办从创意到分发的全过程，包括照片、视频、内容等所有环节。对此你怎么看？我确实有些激烈观点，但想先听听你的看法？

And so he went on to and the article basically goes on to talk about the fact that, what he's really describing here is a vision where a client comes to Meta and basically just says, here's our messaging, and Meta takes care of the rest from creative to distribution to, you know, photos, videos, content, all that kind of stuff. So what say you to this? I definitely, as you might expect, have a pretty hot take on this, but, what say you about this?

我认为首先人们忘性很大。我们都忘了扎克伯格撒过多少谎，承诺过多少从未兑现的事。就像文章里说的——他甚至还自嘲过：'为什么有人会放心把数据交给我？他们太蠢了'

I think first of all, people forget quickly. I think we forget how much that Zuckerberg has lied and said things that never happened and has basically said things like I think the article goes on and says, you know, why why does anybody ever trust me with their data? Like, why? He's even said that himself. Like, they're dumb.

是啊。

Yeah.

虽然这不是完整原话，但大意就是'信任我的人都很蠢'。而现在我们居然要让Meta为广告信息做无限量的品牌决策？等着瞧吧，绝对会有大批人买账的。

And that's not the whole quote, but people are dumb to trust me. So So now we are going to trust Meta to make infinite number of brand decisions for our advertising messaging. And you know what? There are gonna be a ton of people that do it. Yeah.

小企业肯定会第一时间跟进。他们会把创意和媒体外包出去，毕竟独立完成这些太难了。从这个角度看可能很诱人。至于那些抗议的大品牌嘛...

It's gonna be immediately small businesses will do it. They'll outsource their creative They're media because they don't have doing it all themselves. So from that standpoint, it could be incredible. And so there's that. And then the other thing is is that you get all these big brands that are all upset, whatever.

他们确实该警惕，品牌安全可是大问题。如果让Meta全权处理信息，我打赌最终肯定要勾选某个'Meta概不负责'的免责条款

Then they should be upset or should be concerned because brand safety is is a big issue. Like, they're I'm sure that if you give they're not gonna be if you let Meta do your messaging, I'm sure you're gonna have to check a box somewhere that says Meta's not liable for

任何后果都是。你觉得呢？

anything. Yeah. You think?

我们可以为所欲为，会犯些错误，而这是你的错，因为你信任了我们。

We could do whatever we want, and we'll make some mistakes, and it's your fault because you trusted us.

没错。

That's right.

综上所述，我想听听你的看法。总之，我认为这确实会成为趋势。我觉得你会真的登上这些平台，Instagram和Facebook，然后说：'这就是我想要的。这是我最关心的。别这么做，但请自便。'

All so all that said, I wanna get your take on that. All that said, I think that this is actually gonna be a thing. I think that you will actually go to these platform, Instagram and Facebook, and you'll say, here's what I want. Here's my big concern. Don't do this, but have at it.

然后他们会让AI即时生成所有这些内容，获取实时数据，规模会非常庞大。

And then they'll have the AI just create all this, you know, on the go and get real time data, and it's gonna be huge.

是的。我认为你说对了一部分。我觉得这会火大约十分钟，然后最终会迎来相当惨烈的崩盘。我这么说是因为——当然不一定会彻底消亡——但我认为它最终会变成极少被使用的功能。

Yeah. I think I think you're partially right. I think it's gonna be big for about ten minutes, And I think it's going to I think it's it's it's due for a pretty hard crash ultimately. And the reason I say that is because and if, know, and and not that it would die necessarily. I just think it will be a very seldom used thing.

对吧？所以长期来看可能小有成效。但短期而言，正如你所说，会看到很多公司——特别是资源有限的中小企业——会说：'嘿，填个表格，让AI生成所有创意内容，不管是广告还是视频，直接作为我在Meta生态圈（无论是Instagram、Facebook还是其他平台）的广告策略。'怎么了？

Right? So it could be a little bit successful is over the long haul. I think in the short term, you're gonna see a lot of companies and just to your point, especially small businesses, midsize businesses that don't have a lot of resources, especially creative resources sort of say, hey. Here's you know, fill out a form, have AI generate all the creative, whether it's ads and videos, and just use that as my ad strategy on across the meta, you know, ecosystem, whether that's Instagram, whether that's Facebook, whether that's something else. What's that?

大概吧。我也不知道。

I guess. I don't know.

是的，也许吧。问题在于，这几乎肯定无法形成差异化视觉效果，对吧？从本质上讲，这是由定义决定的。

Yeah. Maybe. And so the the problem with it is is that it it's almost certainly going to not be a differentiated look. Right? By inherently, with by definition.

对吧？换句话说，它会有一种...你已经能看出来了。就像AI图像和AI视频都有特定风格，对吧？它就是有那种...你能辨认出来的特质。

Right? In other words, it's it's gonna have you know, you can you can already see it. Like, AI imagery and AI video has a look. Right? It just has a it it you can see it.

对吧？这就是那种...很容易看出相似风格的东西。所以我认为你会开始看到Facebook上形成一个相当同质化的生态系统。当这种同质化的AI生成内容泛滥时，人们就会想：如果大家都在往东走，我们何不往西走呢？

Right? It's just you know, it's it's one of those things that it's it's it's pretty easy to see where you've got a very similar look to it. And so I think what you're gonna start to see is a very, you know, sort of homogenous, if you will, ecosystem on Facebook. And so what's gonna happen is as you see that homogenous sort of very AI generated, you know, creative, the tendency is gonna be, well, we can stand out if we just do something, you know, if we everybody's zigging here, so why why wouldn't we zag? Right?

为什么不创造些截然不同的东西呢？不管具体是什么形式。你会看到这种趋势剧烈摇摆，当界面变得千篇一律时，人们就会开始说：我们可以成为例外，并且在这个过程中学习什么有效、什么无效，最终把它当作工具。总之我认为从长远来看，这不会带来太大改变。它肯定不会取代创意广告公司。

Why wouldn't we make something that completely stands out from that? Whatever that is, like, you know, that whatever that definition is. And so you'll start to see that pendulum swing hard, and then as the interface becomes homogenous, then people are gonna start to say, well, we can be the exception to the rule and actually get, you know, the and and by the way, learn, right, what's working, what's not working, and then we can actually, you know, use it as a as a tool. All of it to say, I don't think it moves the needle much, right, in in the long run. I just don't think it's it's not and it does it certainly won't get rid of the creative ad agency.

我是说...有件事人们总忘记：广告业就是这样起家的。最早期的广告模式是，企业去报社说'我想登广告'，报社就会替你制作广告内容并刊登。这就是广告业的雏形。

I mean, that's you know what people you have to one one thing that people forget. This is how advertising started, by the way. Advertising start in the very earliest days of advertising, what would happen is is that the newspapers would basically create the the they they you would go to the newspaper and you would say, I wanna create an ad for my business, and they would create the ad for you. They would they would create the ad and put it into the newspaper. And that was the beginning.

直到后来——我记不清具体是谁了，应该是1920年代某位著名广告人——提议说：'我们把这个环节独立出来吧，成立专门的代理机构'。于是他们创建了中介公司来接管这个流程。

And it was only after someone, and I can't remember who, it's one of the more famous ad guys in the nineteen twenties, I believe it was, sort of said, hey. Let's, you know, let's take this out. Right? Let's let's let's build our own little agency. And they built an agency to disintermediate that whole thing, basically saying, hey.

我们会负责所有报纸的广告投放，统一管理创意内容，因为不同报纸上的广告需要保持一致性——就这样，广告代理公司诞生了。

We we'll handle the placement across all the newspapers. We'll handle all your creative across because it needs to look the same across different newspapers, and the ad agency was born.

我你可能在这件事上是对的，但我不认为非得如此。我认为

I you are probably right on this one, but I don't think it has to be that way. I think that

让让 我不知道这要怎么运作，

let let I don't know how this is going to work,

但假设你进入系统，设置好表单参数，比如这里有我们的品牌指南、上次的营销活动、我们的形象定位、核心理念和使命宣言。假设这些都整合在一个文档里，你把它输入系统，让Meta的AI学习这些内容。理论上它应该能为每个人生成不同的方案，因为这些AI相当聪明，能设计出不同的视觉风格。

but let's just say you go in, you've got your form settings, you know, like, here's our brand guidelines, here's the last campaign we did, here's what we look like, here's what we stand for, here's our mission done. Let's say it's all on one document, you throw that in there. You get Metas AI to learn about that. You should theoretically come up with a different program for everyone because these things are pretty darn smart. They can come up with a different look.

就像如果我想让ChatGPT或Claude模仿我的文风写作，它能做到——因为我喂给它三本我写的书，告诉它'这就是我的写作风格，照这样写'。

Just like if I want ChatGPT or Claude to write like me, it can write like me. It can write exactly like me because I feed it three of my books. This is how I write. Write like that. This is how I do.

我不我习惯用破折号、这里用分号、随心所欲地写。AI学会了这些后就能说：这就是你的风格和调性。

I don't I do an em dash. I do a semicolon here. I do whatever. It learns that. So the AI could say, this is how you look and feel.

现在我要提取你所有的核心理念，为你打造专属营销活动，完成我们刚讨论的所有环节。这才应该是正确的方式。如果事实果真如此，那么本质上你正在取代那些中间环节——顺便说句，正如我们讨论过的，这不仅发生在营销广告业，旅游业也在经历这种变革。

And now I'm going to take everything you stand for, and I'm gonna create your own campaign. And then I'm gonna do all the things we just talked about. That's the way that it should be. And if that's the way that it that it is, then basically, then you are sort of replacing that intermediary, which is basic which which by by the way, is not just as we've talked about, it's not just marketing and advertising. It's being taken out of travel.

会计行业同样如此。那些曾经处理'这是我们需要完成的事项'的中间层人员正在消失，因为AI会说'我不需要层层转接'。我不想这么说，因为我热爱旅行策划师——业内有很多优秀的从业者，你们应该继续选择他们服务。

It's being taken out of the accounting industry. Like, all that those middle people that did all that work were just going through, here's what we need done. And then the seven people that used to be in the middle of that are gone now because AI is like, I don't need a trap no. I don't wanna say this because I love travel planners. There are some amazing ones out there, and you should use them.

但现在很多人不再这样做了，因为他们已经掌握了AI旅行规划器。它会记录我们喜欢什么、不喜欢什么、想去哪里，然后你就能获得那种体验。

But a lot of people don't anymore because they have AI travel planner that they've really figured out. Here's what we like. Here's what we don't like. Here's where I wanna go. And then you get that experience.

所以这就是我的想法

So that's what I think

是可能 如果

is could And if

如果是这样，它可能会取代部分这类服务。

that's the case, it could be a replacement for some of these services.

当然。但我认为你是在认同一个我思考并撰写过的观点——关于‘赋权用户’的迷思。你假设的是这些中小企业的老板或领导者愿意做这些工作，对吧？

Sure. But I think what you're doing is you're buying into, you know, something that I've I've done some thinking about and and written about before, which is the myth of the empowered user. Right? Which is what you're assuming is is that these small business owners, mid sized business owners, the leaders in these smaller businesses want to do that work. Right?

但实际上他们不愿意。根据经验我可以告诉你，他们根本不想做这些。想象一下，一个中型企业的总裁、创始人或老板，他们要么有一个很小的营销团队（可能就一个人），要么就是自己兼任。理论上他们可以自己更新网站内容，

And they don't. I can tell you from experience that they don't wanna do that work. In in other words, you have a a president or a founder or a business owner of a midsize business, and they don't you know, let's pretend for a second. They either have a a very small marketing team, a marketing team of one, or them or it's themselves. And the the today, they could do things like update the content on their website.

可以投放谷歌广告，只需填一堆表格就能基本自动化完成这些事——但他们不这么做。他们雇佣代理机构来做。为什么？因为要么觉得代理更专业，要么就是单纯不想自己动手。

They could, you know, they could put Google Ads out. They could do, you know, all they need to do is go fill out a bunch of forms with, you know, all this stuff and it's largely automated, but they don't. They hire agencies to do that. Why? Because the agencies are either perceived to be good at it or they basically, you know, don't wanna they they they just don't wanna do it.

他们只是，你知道，那是一项他们不认为自己需要承担主要责任的任务。所以按照你的观点，我认为你会看到代理机构在做这件事。对吧？代理机构将其作为服务提供，因为他们能填写表格、传达正确信息、设计合适的提示词等等，然后实际为客户运行这些营销活动。所以我不认为这在任何方面会取代代理机构，当然它确实有可能朝那个方向发展。

They just, you know, that's a it's a task that they don't look at themselves as being the primary person to do it. So to your point, I think what you could see is agencies doing this. Right? Agencies doing this as a service because they'll be able to fill out the forms, put in the right messaging, put in the right you know, figure out the right prompts, whatever it is, and actually then run those campaigns for their clients. So I don't see it being a replacement for agencies in any regard, and it it it could it it could certainly move that way.

顺便说一句，旅行规划师是个很好的比喻，因为就像我们去苏格兰时，我既用了旅行社代理，也用AI规划了行程。AI确实规划了行程并在宏观层面做得很好。但旅行规划师知道的是：不，不，不。

And by the way, travel planners are a great metaphor or analogy to this because, like, I used a travel agent to when we went to our place in Scotland, and I also used AI to plot out our trip. Now AI plotted out our trip and did a very nice job at a very high level. What the travel planner knew was, no. No. No.

不，你...我知道谷歌说这家酒店很棒，但其实不是。对吧？我可以告诉你是因为他们现在正在施工，有一堆问题。

No. You you I know that that that's the Google says this hotel is great and this it's not. Right? It's I could tell you because it's under they they have construction going on right now. They've got a bunch of stuff going on right now.

你应该住这家小酒店，我还能拿到优惠价。对吧？诸如此类。所以我认为人类能提供很多背景信息，就像现在常说的——需要'人类在回路中'。

You need to stay at this other little hotel, and I've got a deal for that. Right? Blah blah blah. So I think there's a lot of, there's a lot of context that the humans in, you know, as they say these days, the humans in the loop can provide.

我想我们拭目以待。要总结的话，这是我的预测：当这个时代结束时——假设五年后吧。

I guess we will see. I think that the this will all end just to wrap this up in a bow, here's my prediction. My prediction is when this era is done. So let I'm gonna say five years.

波普曼时代。

The Popeman era.

AI的波普曼时代。是的，我相信届时会再次举行国会听证会，扎克伯格、贝索斯和谷歌高管们会排排坐。核心问题将是：你们怎么会让事情发展到这种地步？

The Popeman era of AI. Yeah. I believe there will be a congressional hearing again where Zuckerberg and Bezos and and Google see and they're all in line there. And the whole thing is, how did you let it get this far?

是的。对。

Yeah. Yes.

你们怎么会让AI失控？然后他们会回过头来说，你们这么做是因为我们告诉你们

How did you let AI run amok? And they're gonna be pointing back and saying, you did it because we told you

没错。

Right.

事情就会变成这样。这是我的预测。等到我们录到第780期节目时——谁知道呢，或者那时候我们录到多少期了。而且，我们可能连帽子都不会戴了，因为搞不明白怎么用它们。

That's how it's gonna be. So this is my prediction. When we're on episode, I don't know, seven hundred and eighty Yeah. Or whatever we're on by that time. And, you know, we can't even wear hats anymore because we can't figure out how to use them.

我觉得事情会变成这样。

That's what I think is gonna happen.

哦，我觉得这是个非常保险的预测。

Oh, that's I I think that that's a very safe that's a very safe prediction.

这简直就是在为那件事做铺垫。

It's doesn't it's setting up for that.

确实如此。完全正确。绝对没错。好吧。

It is. Totally. Totally. Absolutely. Alright.

那么，让我们确保通过支付这里的几笔账单，我们还能再做200或300期节目。

Well, let's let's make sure that we can actually do another 200 and or 300 episodes by paying a couple of bills here.

我们开始吧。

Let's do it.

成为全球最具价值的女子体育品牌绝非偶然。天使城足球俱乐部在HubSpot的助力下实现了这一目标。初创时期，数据分散在多个系统中。HubSpot将他们的网站、电子邮件营销和球迷体验整合到一个平台上，使得仅由三人组成的小团队能在短短三天内搭建起整个网站。

You don't become the world's most valuable women's sports franchise by accident. Angel City Football Club did it with a little help from HubSpot. When they started, data was housed across multiple systems. HubSpot unified their website, their email marketing, and fan experience into one platform. This allowed their small team of three to build an entire website in just three days.

成果显著：每周新增近350名注册用户，数据库在两年内增长了300%。想要开启卓越营销？访问hubspot.com，了解HubSpot如何助您更好发展。我说话声音太大了吗？稍等。

The results, nearly 350 new sign ups a week and 300% database growth in just two years. You wanna kick off some great marketing? Visit hubspot.com to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. Am I talking too loud? Wait a minute.

这档很酷的播客你该听听。没错，就是由克里斯·萨维奇主持、HubSpot播客网络推出的《大声说话》。在这档节目中，Wistia首席执行官兼最大嗓门的克里斯·萨维奇带您深入企业家们的思维世界，分享他们在打造更具人性化品牌过程中那些既搞笑又充满启发性、最具挑战性的故事。最新一期邀请了Cast Magic的创始人，这家公司正运用AI重塑内容工作流程。

That's a cool podcast you should listen to. That's right. Talking too loud, hosted by Chris Savage and brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network. In this podcast, Chris Savage, Wistia's CEO and loudest talker, takes you inside the minds of entrepreneurs as they share a hilarious and informative and most challenging aspects of building more human brands. A recent episode featured the founders of Cast Magic, a company leveraging AI to reimagine content workflows.

这节目热闹非凡。你可以在任何收听喜爱播客的平台关注《大声说话》。

It's wonderfully loud. You can follow talking too loud wherever you follow your favorite podcast.

你知道那首歌吗？有点霍华德·琼斯的风格。

You know that song? It's kinda got a Howard Jones.

是啊，这正是我想要的，完全就是我想表达的。你在开玩笑吗？哦，好吧。对。

Yeah. That's what I was what I was that's totally what I was going for. Oh, you kidding me? Oh, okay. Yeah.

这完全就是我想表达的。

That's totally what I was going for.

那是你的创作提示吗？霍华德·琼斯的风格。

Is that is that your prompt? A Howard Jones style.

对。一首八十年代霍华德·琼斯风格的流行歌曲，古怪又活泼。

Yes. A Howard Jones eighties style pop song that is is quirky and poppy.

我想要霍华德·琼斯混合赫比·汉考克的风格。

I want a Howard Jones mixed with Herbie Hancock.

是啊。不，我没往那方面想，但这主意不错。这确实是个很酷的想法。

Yeah. No. I didn't go there, but I that's a that's a cool idea. That's actually a cool idea, though.

那就是下一个

That's the next

是啊。

Yeah.

是啊。就是下一个。我懂你。我懂你。这些我都做不来。

Yeah. That's the next one. I got you. I got you. I can't do any of this.

我懂你。

I've got you.

我负责想点子。

I I come up with the ideas.

我懂你。我懂你的宝可梦。

I got you. I got you Pokemon.

我得去买...我想...我觉得我想要一张那种教皇卡。

I gotta go buy I gotta I wanna I think I want one of those pope cards.

赌一把。现在它们卖多少钱？

Bet. How much do they cost now?

它们之前的零售价是8.99美元。8.99美元。

They were they were retailing for $8.99. $8.99.

嗯，那个价格会那个价格会

Well, that's gonna that's gonna go

上涨。可能现在已经涨到——对，远不止这个数了。现在大概每小时9.14美元左右吧。我也不确定。

up. Probably they're probably yeah. Much much more than that. They're probably, like, $9.14 an hour or something. I don't know.

你或许可以在eBay之类的平台上查查看。对，我敢肯定

You could probably look it up on eBay or something like that. Yeah. I'm sure

肯定有人在卖。我打赌至少有十万个在售。

I'm sure they're on there. I'm sure there's a 100,000 for sale.

真意外居然还没出现教皇NFT。或者叫...对，不知道。教皇币。教皇币。

I'm surprised it I'm surprised we haven't seen the the Pope NFT yet. So or the Yeah. I don't know. Pope coin. Pope coin.

教皇币怎么样？

How about Pope coin?

其实，可能已经有别人在做了。

Actually, I somebody else is probably already there.

肯定有人在开发教皇币，我敢打赌他们正在做。

Somebody's working on Pope Coin. Guarantee you they're working on Pope Coin.

我是说，特朗普媒体绝对会搞这种东西，我能想象到。

I mean, I I would I mean, Trump Trump media would absolutely do something like that. I could see that.

他们可能会。他们...

They might. They They

他们是领导者，是模因币的领军者。

are the leaders. They are the leaders in meme coins.

天啊。

Oh my god.

你想找个靠谱的迷因币？我们给你梅拉尼娅币。

You wanna meet you want a solid meme coin? We'll give you Melania coin.

给你

Give you

唐纳德唐纳德币。别让我开始这个话题。

Donald Donald coin. Don't get me started.

别让我开始这个话题。

Don't get me started.

这就是问题所在，你知道的，本来都是好玩的事，直到很多人亏了钱，是的，这次就是这样。

That's the it's it's the issue with you know, it's what it's all fun and games until a lot of people lose money, which Yeah. Happened with this.

是的。

Yes.

这才是可悲之处。我为那些亏了大钱的投资者感到难过，而赚大钱的投资者寥寥无几。就这样。我没有任何...我不是在发表任何声明

And that's what's sad. I feel bad for a lot of the investors that have just lost a ton of money, and there's a very few investors that have made a ton. So that's all. You don't have any I'm not making any statement by

那个。我是说，我只是...我昨天刚看到一篇新闻，说司法部长在关税消息公布时卖掉了价值一百万美元的特朗普媒体股票。就在关税新闻出来的同时，对吧？她抛售了价值百万美元的股票。

that. Well, I mean, it just I mean, I I think I just saw a news article that came out yesterday that said the attorney general sold a million dollars worth of her Trump Trump media stock, basically, on the on the news of the tariffs, And, you know, simultaneously. Right? As the new this the tariffs news were coming out, she sold a million dollars worth

股票。对。虽然还没全部曝光，也许我们永远查不清，但我觉得可以。这是史上最大的内幕交易丑闻之一，因为就在公告发布前——大概三十分钟左右——出现了大量买卖交易。

of stock. Yeah. Not all of it's out yet, and maybe we will never find it, but I think you can. That was the biggest one of the biggest insider trading scandals that have ever happened because right before the announcement, what was it, like, thirty minutes before, there was tons of buying and selling happening.

是的。没错。

Yep. Yep.

就像在问，这消息哪来的？而我当时...

It's like, oh, where'd that come from? And I was

我们就查出来了。

like, well, we found out.

我不知道。我不清楚发生了什么。真的不知道。

I don't know. I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened.

好吧。哦。

Alright. Oh.

又是那种早晨。

It's one of those mornings.

确实如此。我现在就处于那种暴躁的情绪中。好吧。说到错误信息和虚假信息，BBC老板现在表示——这消息来自《卫报》——信任危机正在危及英国的社会结构。谢天谢地终于有人公开谈论这个问题了。

It is definitely. I'm definitely in that punchy mood. Alright. Well, speaking of misinformation and disinformation, the BBC boss now says, and this comes courtesy of The Guardian, basically is the trust crisis is putting a social fabric of UK at risk. Thank god somebody is actually talking about this.

蒂姆·戴维将BBC定位为团结力量，同时宣布计划为YouTube和TikTok制作更多新闻内容。文章开篇指出，BBC总干事表示，由于社交媒体平台兴起和虚假信息助长了所谓的'信任危机'，英国作为一个凝聚力强的民主社会的地位面临一代人以来首次威胁。在关于BBC未来的广泛演讲中，蒂姆·戴维斯表示BBC新闻将开始为YouTube和TikTok等平台制作专属内容——这些平台上虚假信息可能不受约束——并将该广播公司称为'宝贵的国家资产'，防止英国沦为没有共同事实的社会。他原话说：'我们凝聚力民主社会的未来，在我有生之年首次感到岌岌可危'。

Tim Davy pitches BBC as a unifying force as he announces plans to make more news content for YouTube and TikTok. The article opens up by saying Britain's status as a cohesive democratic society is at risk for the first time in a generation as the rise of social media platforms and disinformation fuel a, quote, unquote, trust crisis, the BBC's general director has said. In a wide ranging address about the future of the, the corporation, Tim Davies said BBC News would start to make special content for platforms such as YouTube and TikTok where disinformation can go unchecked as he couched the broadcaster as a, quote, precious national asset, preventing The UK from becoming a society in which there were no shared facts. The future this is a quote from him. The future of our cohesive democratic society feels for the first time in my life at risk.

戴维说：'我不想危言耸听，但我们在英国有太多值得骄傲的东西——我们的包容、创新精神、创造力、幽默感、公平意识。但我认为除非采取行动，否则我们将逐渐变得衰弱、缺乏信任、丧失竞争力。'文章接着讨论他们的行动计划，主要是大幅增加内容类型和投放平台，试图向这些平台传递新闻事实，对抗虚假信息。我觉得...这真是值得大大点赞。不知道你怎么看？

Davy said, I don't wanna, catastrophize, but we have so much to be proud of here in The UK, our tolerance, our innovative spirit, our creativity, our humor, our sense of fairness, but I think unless we act, we will drift, becoming weaker, less trusting, and less competitive. And the article then goes on to talk about what they're going to do, basically dramatically increasing the kinds of content that they're doing and the platforms on which they are doing it to try and deliver, news and facts out to these platforms and sort of fight the disinformation that's out there. I think I mean, big big ups and hats tips to them. I don't know. Do you have a take on this?

我觉得'危言耸听'会是个很棒的乐队名。

I think that Catastrophize would be a great band name.

没错。就是这样。好吧。太棒了。

Yes. There you go. Alright. Yeah. Fantastic.

现在嘛...对，'危言耸听'。

And now Yeah. Catastrophize.

两个傻笑着说我爱这个的家伙。

Two chuckleheads with I love this.

我不知道这是否能行

I don't know if it's going

得通，如果他们能获得足够的资金支持。

to work, if they can get enough funding to do it.

这这这会奏效的，如果你看到有人效仿的话。我是说

It it it will work if if you've seen some people following suit. I mean

好吧，让我理清一下。根据这篇文章我的理解是，他们打算投入更多时间和精力去那些他们无法掌控的地方。具体来说就是Instagram和TikTok平台。对吧？

Well, so that's let me get this right. So what I'm what I'm gathering by this article, they are going to invest a lot more time and energy going out to places that they do not control. So they're going to Instagram and TikTok specifically. Right?

是的。去

Yes. To go

那些平台传播他们所谓的真相信息——虽然可能比其他渠道更接近真相——并试图触及那些被自己算法创造的'现实'所蒙蔽的受众，让他们最终相信这些被操控的内容。所以他们要设法进入这些信息流，不管用什么方式。我认为这很高尚，完全符合他们的使命，正是他们需要做的。

out there and say, we need to get this message of truth, whatever truth that they're going out with, which is probably closer than than most, and saying we need to reach these audiences which are have created their own algorithms of, reality that then they end up believing they're manipulated, and they end up believing whatever they believe. So they're gonna try to go out there and get into that feed somehow with however they do that. I think it's noble. It's a wonderful it's right along their mission. It's exactly what they need to do.

他们可能早就该这么做了，不过你知道，这不是重点。希望这能奏效。我认为这是我们都该学习并在某个时刻提及的，实际上这是个非常不错的媒体多元化策略。我是说，BBC在这方面做得很好。哦对，我们掌握了所有这些。

They probably should have been doing this a long time ago, but, you know, that's beside the point. I hope this works. I think that it's something that we can all learn from and say at some point and it's actually a really good diversification media strategy. I mean, they the BBC has done a great job with oh, yeah. We've got all these one.

我们拥有电视平台，有官方网站，掌控着所有这些渠道。他们本应建立更完善的其他渠道，因为如果遵循媒体多元化基础策略，他们五年前就该行动了。

We've got television. We've got our website. We got all these things that we can control. They probably should have a more even more robust other channels because if you just follow the diversification strategy of media one zero one, they if they they should have been doing this five years ago.

确实。七年

Sure. Seven

前。七年前。但是，你知道，他们没有无限的资金。

years. Seven years ago. But but they but, you know, they don't have unlimited funds.

没错。

Right.

所以他们一直坚守着非常传统的媒体阵地，可以这么说。

So they've kept to their very traditional media Yeah. Bases, if you will.

是的。而且他们的商业模式中存在优势。对吧？或者说BBC其实缺乏这种模式，明白吗？

Yes. And and and they have there's an advantage in the business model. Right? The or, you know, or the really the lack thereof, you know, for the BBC. Right?

他们并不追求股东价值最大化，你懂我意思吗？这就是为什么——我是说，对比美国新闻媒体和BBC，差异非常明显，就报道内容和方式而言。比如当我在伦敦或乘坐英航时，总能接触到大量BBC新闻。你会发现他们报道的许多事情，在美国根本闻所未闻。

Which is they're they're not trying to drive shareholder value. You know what I mean? And so that's where I mean, you know, it we can it's stark, the difference, right, if you look at American news media versus the BBC, right, just in terms of how they cover what they cover. You know, when I whenever I'm in London or, you know, flying British Air or anything where you get a good dose of of the BBC News, for example. They're just cut I mean, you you learn about stuff that you never hear about here.

明白吗？他们会报道非洲国家的战争、叙利亚局势、南美政治动态、希腊经济现状等等——这些内容既不哗众取宠，也不会催生网络迷因，更不会用'格陵兰成为第51个州'这种耸人听闻的标题。这才是真正的新闻。我期待的是更深入多元的报道，而不是浪费时间讨论'加拿大变成美国第51个州'这种荒谬话题，对吧？

You know? It's like, you know, there's there's a war and, you know, going African country, and there's, you know, this is going on in Syria, and these are the politics of South America, and this is what's going on, you know, from the in the economy of Greece, you know, and and, you know, all which is not clickbaity, all of which is not gonna gather, you know, the the or build any memes or be a, you know, be a headline that that is gonna be sensationalist or or talk about, you know, Greenland becoming the fifty first state, you know, or or whatever. All of that is is just is just news. And that's what I'm hoping for is sort of a deeper deeper spread of, you know, it not necessarily battling the you know, like like, for example, coming out and saying, here's, you know, doing a special report on the reality of Canada becoming the American for fifty first state, which is just a ridiculous way to spend any time. Right?

真正需要的是让多元化内容获得传播空间，至少能有机会与那些无稽之谈竞争。现在美国媒体公司都陷入了某种陷阱——整天追着问'他最后说了什么出格的话？做了什么出格的事？'这种风气甚至蔓延到体育界。我看过NBA赛后采访，整个采访目的就是挖出'输球感受如何'这种爆点。

But rather sort of getting more content that is diverse out there so that at least it has some oxygen to breathe and compete with the nonsense that that that most American media companies are are are doing, which is falling into the trap of somehow does that being you know, because what what's the last outrageous thing that he said, you know, or did? Right? That's the that's the challenge with American mainstream media right now is that the the, like, the interviews with him, the, you know, the the interviews with any politician right now become more and then you can see it even happening in sports. Right? I mean, I was watching there was an NBA sort of after game, and they're and they're talking about, you know, the the whole goal of the interview is to try and get some sensationalist head like, how do you feel about losing?

是不是？'连续投丢14个球是什么感受？''输掉这场比赛后，你和教练的关系怎么样了？'

You know? How do how do you feel about missing 14 shots in a row? You know? How do you what's what's going on with your, you know, your relationship with the coach now that you've lost this game? You know?

所有这些都只为制造灾难性的头条新闻。我们陷入这种境地很可悲，但这就是美国主流媒体追求股东价值的必然结果。

It's like it's all built to get the, you know, disaster catastrophizing headline. And that's it's it's a sad state that we find ourselves in, but that's, you know, try American means mainstream media trying to build shareholder value is is leads you down that road.

有意思的是，BBC美国频道反而可能成为真相之源，因为其他媒体几乎都在做观点输出。太疯狂了——不信你看看MSNBC或福克斯新闻的节目构成。

It's interesting then that b b BBC America might actually be taking the could take the lead in being, like, a source of truth when the other media channels are going toward almost exclusively opinion. Yeah. It's just nuts. I mean, if you like, I don't know what the breakout is of like, let's just let's just take, MSNBC or Fox News. Look at them.

确实。

Yep.

这肯定是90%的观点，10%的新闻。

It's gotta be 90% opinion, 10% news.

确实。

Sure.

他们都说我不知道。

They're all like I don't know.

是啊。我是说，先别管左右立场。就拿CNN来说吧，我知道当我说这话时，右派的人会说CNN是共产主义网络。但号称更中立的CNN其实也在这么干，对吧？

Yeah. Well, even I mean, even forget left and right for a second. You know, you take something like you know, I mean, I and I know when I say this that people on the right are gonna go CNN and, you know, is the communist network. But, you know, CNN, for example, that purports them to to be a little more balanced, they're doing it too. Right?

他们也在这么干，对吧？他们就是，

They're they're doing it as well. Right? They're they're,

你知道的，这

you know, it's

全是观点。对吧？全是观点。根本不是新闻。

all opinions. Right? It's all opinions. Right? It's all it's just it's not the news.

这个议题的评论员对新闻有什么看法，对吧？所以你看，这一切都是为了让人互相争吵，让人们讨论，把一切都灾难化，而所有这些都围绕着那些无意义的干扰，当现实世界中正在发生真正重要的事情时。

It's what does this subject matter talking head think about the news. Right? And so, you know, it's all of it built to get in people yelling at each other, people talking, you know, talking about, you know, catastrophizing everything, and all of it around the nonsense, the distractions, what is when there's real stuff going on in the, you know, in the in the real world.

是啊。所以我想，我们看看这个实验是否有效。

Yeah. So I guess, we'll see if this, experiment works.

你说得对。

You're right.

这很难展示。这基本上是他们正在进行的营销实践。他们试图吸引更多人关注BBC并从中学习，比如如果在TikTok上获得一定数量的粉丝，而他们并不一定从中盈利，那么在损益会议上就很难交代。

It's very tough to show. It it's basically a marketing practice that they're doing. They're trying to get more people into the BBC and to learn from like, if if they get a number of followers on TikTok and they're not necessarily monetizing that, it's tough to go back into a P and L meeting.

没错。

That's right.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

确实如此。

That's right.

我们拥有超过百万的粉丝，我们做到了。好吧。那么，收入从何而来？

We got a million plus followers, and we got this. Well, okay. Well, where's the revenue coming from?

是的。然后是媒体

Yeah. And then and then media

一切都关乎收入和利润。

is all about revenue and profit.

你希望像美国国家公共电台这样的机构能继续生存下去，但你知道，我们会看到那边会发生什么。

And you hope you you you know, your hope is that something like NPR can continue to survive, but that, you know, we'll we'll see we'll see what happens there.

我们绝对会看到的。

We will absolutely see.

好的。那么，让我们进入下一个话题，这个可以快速过一下，因为它明显带有营销色彩。这条消息来自Deadline，虽然很多媒体都在讨论。HBO Max回来了。

Yeah. Alright. Let's get to our, next story here, and this is a quick one we can just cover because, it's got definitely a marketing spin to it. So the this story coming courtesy of Deadline, although there are a number of places that are that are talking about this. HBO Max is back.

基本上，华纳兄弟探索公司进行了品牌重塑，并在最新的广告招商会上宣布了这一消息。品牌重塑将于今年夏天实施，华纳兄弟探索周三在纽约向广告商进行的招商演示中透露。高管们提到该服务近期势头良好，过去一年新增了全球市场和2200万订阅用户，同时旨在向被海量内容淹没的观众'放大'其品牌的独特性。今年早春就出现了变更的迹象，Max的配色方案从蓝色变为深灰色，这是自2020年推出紫色标识以来的第二次调整。新logo保留了原HBO的圆角字母设计。

Basically, Warner Brothers Discovery has done a rebranding and that they announced that the new upfronts. The rebrand will take place this summer, Warner Brothers Discovery revealed on Wednesday at its upfront presentation to advertisers in New York. Executives cited recent momentum with the service adding global markets and 22,000,000 subscribers over the past year and also a goal to quote, unquote amplify the uniqueness of their brand to viewers drowning in an ocean of programming. Hints of the change appeared earlier this spring as Max's color scheme changed from blue to dark gray, the second shift since the launch with the purple in, 2020. The new logo preserves the rounded letters of the original HBO.

你对这一切有什么看法？

What do you what do you think about all this?

那么，我的问题是，他们还要多久才会直接转向HBO？

Well, so my question is is how long until they just go to HBO?

没错。我想就是这样。

Right. I think that's it.

因为那就是我们的方向。我们要回到起点。是的，我们要回到HBO。

Because that's that's where we're going. We're going back to the beginning. Yep. We're gonna go back to HBO.

说得好。

Great point.

HBO是高端品牌。

HBO is the premium brand.

是的。

Yep.

当他们决定转移到Max平台时，你我都说过这是史上最蠢的决定。确实，这简直是

When when they made the move to Max, you and I both said this is the dumbest move ever. Sure. It's

新可乐级别的愚蠢，彻头彻尾的蠢事。

new Coke. It's a new it's new Coke level, stupid.

没错。给大家简单回顾下：从HBO到HBO Max再到Max的改名过程

Exactly. And so the just just the primer for everyone. When they went from HBO to HBO Max to Max

是啊。

Yeah.

当时肯定有人——我猜是CEO，也可能是节目总监——说我们要对标Netflix，要扩大节目类型覆盖更多观众。

There were somebody, and I'm assuming it's the CEO, but I don't know if it's the programming manager, said, we want we're gonna go up against Netflix. We wanna have a wide range of programming to reach as many people as possible.

对。

Yeah.

这简直是史上最愚蠢的媒体战略。

Well, that is the dumbest media strategy ever.

是啊。

Yeah.

重申一下，如果你的内容试图迎合所有人，那实际上谁也吸引不了，最终变得毫无意义。现在我们回归HBO的本质——《白莲花度假村》《黑道家族》这样的精品剧集，这才是真正优质的创作。

Is, again, if your content is for everyone, it's for no one, and it became max meant nothing to no to and nothing to anybody. So now we're going back to HBO means White Lotus. It means the Sopranos. It means some of the best programming that is created.

没错。你们有过明确的品牌定位，对吧？

Right. You had a brand. Right?

你们曾经有清晰的品牌形象，现在他们似乎意识到：或许不该追求大众市场，而应该专注于服务那些真正热爱这些精彩剧集的观众群体。

And you had a brand, and now they're like, oh, maybe we shouldn't go out for everyone. Maybe we should be for people that just love to watch these compelling shows.

对。

Yep.

这里面可藏着商业模式呢各位。所以再次强调——别贪心求全。现在他们正在回归正轨。我预测大概15到18个月后，HBO就会放弃Max品牌，重新专注HBO单一品牌。

And there's a business model there, folks. So, again, don't go after everyone. Now they're coming back. And I would say probably fifteen to eighteen months, we will get to HBO drops the max, goes with just HBO.

完全赞同这个预测。是的。你回想HBO Max早期阶段对吧？

Yep. I a 100% behind that prediction. Yes. I think you'll see HBO Max, right, in the early days. Right?

新标志即将发布，你现在就能从文章里的旧标志看出端倪——那个纤细的'Max'与粗壮的'HBO'并列，而且它会变得越来越小，直到最终被完全替换掉。

The and and the new logo will drop, and you can even start to see it now in the logo that that that was in the article where there's you know, that it's a very thin little little Max and a very big bold HBO, and it'll just continue to get smaller and smaller until they until they finally drop it.

我在想，有时候在这种会议上，当有人特别兴奋地提出某个想法时，或许我们该说'先等三十天吧'。对，先缓缓，别急着...

I think I wish I wish what woulda happened sometimes when you get into these meetings and somebody's really excited and they have this idea, sometimes you just have to say, let's just wait thirty days. Yeah. Let's just wait. Let's not make

做改变。

the change.

对吧？先观望下。但他们没这么做。

Right? Let's just see. Yeah. But they didn't do that. No.

他们当时反应太夸张了，觉得'天啊我们必须马上行动'。这种恐慌情绪你懂的。

They had a oh my god. We gotta do everything. Well, everybody panics. Right?

是啊。很大程度上是因为华纳兄弟探索公司当时深陷困境，负债累累。

Yeah. You know? And that was and that's in large part, you had Warner Brothers Discovery, which was, like, in a world of hurt. You know? There was all that you know, as they were in the you know, they were in so much debt.

虽然现在债务依然很高，但当时甚至有传言说要出售电视频道，或是拆分业务来抵债...不管怎样，我不得不说他们处理得还不错。

I mean, they still are in a lot of debt, but but there, you know, there was talk of, you know, would they sell the network? Would they, you know, diversify and and peel off a bunch of this just to cover some and anyway, I I I hats off. It's a good stuff.

进入愚昧之地。没错。就这样。

Into the dumbery. Yep. There we go.

进入愚昧之地。好的。其实很快地，你想先聊这个还是直接跳到赢家和输家？

Into the dumbery. Alright. Very quickly actually, you wanna cover this or should we jump right into winners and losers?

我们会把...我们会把AI的话题留到...

We'll we'll save the we'll save the AI one for

对。留到下周。

Yeah. For next week.

下一期节目。

Next episode.

好的。太棒了。我们要...

Alright. Fantastic. We're gonna

致那三位正在收听的听众

For those three people that are listening

对我来说。是的。

to me. Yeah.

那些还在继续。

That are still on.

是的。

Yeah.

四十七分钟了。好的。我们开始吧。

Forty seven minutes in. Right. Let's go.

太棒了。

That's great.