剁肉板：Web3消亡、L1估值之争与加密行业倦怠期 - 第977期

我认为这是我们行业不断重新学习的一个教训。

And that's a lesson that I think as an industry, we keep relearning.

每次学习的原因各不相同。

Learn it for different reasons.

表面偏好与实际偏好的差异真是棘手。

Stated versus revealed preferences are a bitch.

确实如此。

That's Exactly.

这

The

现在听着，我不会说绝对不可能，因为毕竟未知的领域太多了。

So now look, I won't say never because, you know, like I don't know what I don't know.

但我依然认为，加密货币的核心优势始终围绕在货币与金融领域。

But again, I do think that the core superpower of crypto has always been around money and finance.

如果你要做一个社交网络或其他产品，却没有叠加货币激励机制，那它很可能无法与推特或Instagram形成足够差异，更别说取代它们了。

And if you're doing, you know, okay, a social network or some other thing and you don't have like some monetary zhuzh on top of it, it's probably not going to be sufficiently different than a Twitter or a, you know, an Instagram that you're gonna have a shot in hell of being able to supersede them.

如果这都不算教训，那我就不知道什么才算了。

So if that's not the lesson, then I don't know what is.

我是说，Instagram和Twitter这些平台，每个都投入了二十年的努力，有成千上万的工程师和产品设计师参与，用二十年时间建立了网络效应。

I mean, Instagram and Twitter and all these things have, like, two decades each of effort that have gone into them with thousands of engineers and product designers and, like, two decades building up a network effect.

对吧？

Right?

还有用户基础。

And a user base.

这些现在都是巨无霸级别的产品，正如你所说，除非有人从完全不同的角度切入并一举成功，否则极难撼动它们的地位。

Like these are gargantuan products at this point that yes, to your point, they will be extremely hard to dislodge unless somebody thinks about this from a completely different angle and just nails it.

而这个不同的角度就是金钱。

And that different angle is money.

我认为预测市场奇怪地成为了构建社交网络的完全不同的切入点。

And I think prediction markets are weirdly a totally different angle to make social network.

这就是我的热门观点——

That's like that's my hot take is like

我我我太喜欢这个观点了。

I I I love this take.

把预测市场称为社交网络确实有点牵强，但我

It is a bit of a stretch to call a prediction market social network, but I

喜欢这样。

like that.

感觉我

Feel like I

感觉人们谈论

feel like people talk about

这个市场。

this market.

不。

No.

我同意这一点。

I agree to it.

人们讨论预测市场的方式

People talk about prediction rates for the way

就像讨论帖子一样。

they talk about posts.

就像是，就像是

It's like it's like

我是说，我同意它们具有社交属性。

I mean, I agree they're social.

我同意它们具有社交属性。

I agree they're social.

但这种社交网络的延伸性在于——目前使用Polymarket的大部分人其实都在推特上，对吧？

And but like the social network sort of extends you know, most of the people who are at this point consuming Polymarket are actually on Twitter, right?

Polymarket的推特账号简直火爆极了。

Like the Polymarket Twitter account is like crazy.

它每天都能达到惊人的、疯狂的覆盖范围。

It's got crazy, crazy reach every single day.

所以这更像是一个更广泛的现象，而不仅仅局限于Polymarket的评论区。

So it's like a broader phenomenon than just like, okay, it lives inside of the Polymarket comment section.

是的。

Yeah.

我想未来——回到上周关于预测市场和长尾效应及社交网络的讨论——你会去看高中篮球赛，预测市场应用里，看台上的人们会一边聊天一边对比赛下注，这一切都会自动发生。

I think the future just to go back to last week's chopping block conversation about prediction markets and the long tail and the social networks, I think the future is you go to the high school basketball game, and the prediction market app, it's like all the people in the stands with you are, like, chatting and betting on the game, and it just happens automatically.

100%同意。

100%.

100%同意。

100%.

我我我认为，类似这样的东西会比那些试图成为社交网络的加密社交产品更具社交网络属性。

I I I think, like, stuff like that is gonna be more of a social network than any of these kind of cryptosocial things that try to be a social network.

所以汤姆，如果你在构建这个的话。

So if you're building that Tom.

汤姆，你在进入加密领域之前，曾是Instagram的产品经理。

So, Tom, you used to be you used to be a PM at Instagram before you came into crypto.

确实。

True.

你你你你可是从那个巨头的内部出来的。

You you you you came from the inside of the beast.

你认为加密货币领域最终会出现一个成功的社交应用吗？

Do you think there will ever be a successful social app within crypto?

不是指社交交易那种，而是真正的社交社交。

Not like social trading, like Social Social.

我想我大体上同意，加密货币中有趣的部分在于其金融属性。

I mean, I think I more or less agree that, like, the interesting thing in crypto is the financial component.

而且我认为要取代现有巨头极其困难，用功能微调的同质化产品去击败它们——这正是其他所有尝试都采用的方式。

And I think it's also extremely difficult to displace any incumbent, like, beating them with the exact same product with small tweaks, which I think is what every other approach has had.

这一点在传统社交媒体领域也同样成立。

And and it's even true even in traditional social media.

我不知道。

I don't know.

我认为最终可能会出现某种形式，与我们今天能想象的任何东西都截然不同，而且一开始可能会遭到嘲笑。

I I think there's probably something into like, ultimately, I think the whatever form factor is just gonna, like, totally different than anything we can imagine today, and it's gonna get ridiculed at at the start.

但我能预见一些金融化的东西会流行起来，比如预测市场。

But I could see some something something financialized, like a prediction market taking off.

虽然不完全属于加密领域，但我们本周投资了一家公司2¢，它的模式非常不同。

I not quite crypto y, but, we had a portfolio company launched this week, 2¢, which is a very different flavor.

这有点像'坏主意反过来也是好主意'的概念。

It's kinda like the opposite of a good idea is also a good idea.

他们做了一个匿名社交网络，但你的身份标识是经过验证的网络身份，可以绑定加密钱包或券商账户。

And so they do, it's an anonymous social network, but, your sort of handle is your verified network so they could take in your crypto wallet, or you can, like, link up your brokerage.

系统会显示'这个人身价10万美元'，仅此而已。

And so it'll say, like, this person's worth a $100,000, and that's it.

然后你就可以评论、发帖和发起投票。

And then you can just comment and post and poll.

这样就能产生非常有趣的内容，感觉非常...我不知道该怎么形容，有点离经叛道。

And so you get, like, really interesting, fun content that, like, feels very, I don't know, transgressive.

比如，人们通常不该谈论自己的净资产，也不该知道自己在按财富排名的动态中位列第几，或是你的投票如何按财富排序，但这种设定却产生了你在其他任何地方都看不到的有趣内容。

Like, you're not supposed to talk about your net worth, you're not supposed to have, like, you know, how much your rank in the feed ranked by by net worth or your poll ranked by net worth, but, like, it produces really interesting content that you're just not really getting anywhere else.

所以这是

So This is

一个由扳手公司赞助的应用。

app sponsored by a wrench company.

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Right.

它是匿名的。

That's it's anonymous.

定位功能。

Location to it.

本地隐私保护。

Local privacy privacy preserving.

我是说，对，别别别公开你的研究，或者说你的地址。

I mean, yeah, don't don't don't pub don't publish your research, but or your your address rather.

不过确实。

But yeah.

总之，就是和你平常预期的不太一样。

Anyway, just just different than when you normally expect.

说到你的观点，我觉得有些非常小众的社交网络我还在用，尽管我认为用户量已经多年没增长了，比如Arena之类的，这些加密社交网络给我的感觉就是这样。

To your point, I feel like there's some very weird niche social networks that I still use despite the fact that I don't think the user accounts have grown years, like Arena and stuff like that, where it's like, I I all these crypto ones seem like that.

它们不像是风投支持的企业。

They're not, like, venture businesses.

更像是为某个小众群体服务的家庭手工业式社交网络。

They're more like cottage industry social networks for, like, some niche group.

对吧？

Right?

唯一似乎能跨越社会阶层的只有预测市场，现在无论你处在社会的哪个位置，大家都喜欢谈论它们。

The only one that seems to transcend society is prediction markets, where, like, everyone loves to talk about them regardless of where you are in society now.

我觉得对我来说，这就是一个社交网络所需要的，那种围绕你的热议氛围。

I feel like and that to me, that's, what you need to have a social network, that amount of buzz around you.

是啊。

Yeah.

这很有趣，因为我确实认为曾有那么一个时期，基本上你甚至不需要创建一个社交网络，只要弄个像老式论坛那样的东西，比如电子公告板类型的论坛，但上面全是超级有钱的加密圈用户，就能获得风投。就因为当时有种观念，认为任何接近加密财富核心的东西都价值连城。

It's interesting because I do think there was a moment where basically if you created not even like a social network, but almost like a forum, like an old school, like, you know, bulletin board type forum, but you just had super rich crypto people on it, you could get it venture funded just because there was a sense that anything that was close enough to the heart of crypto wealth was somehow worth enormous amounts of money.

而且我认为，是的，这个行业和投资者们也稍微成熟了些，意识到要创建可持续发展的企业其实非常困难。

And I think, yeah, the the industry and I think investors have also grown up a little bit and realized that, like, hey, it's actually really hard to create sustainable businesses.

没错。

Yeah.

我已经很久没听到'Web3'这个词了，除了那些做AI的人会问'你们那个Web3进展如何了？'

I haven't heard the I I don't hear the word web three from anyone except people who work in AI who are like, how's that web three stuff going?

嗯，我想是时候让这个术语退休了。

Well, I mean, I guess it's time to retire the term.

我们能

Can we

是啊。

Yeah.

我们能就此打住吗？

Can we put it to rest?

好吧。

Okay.

嘿，这词不是我们造的。

Hey, we didn't make the term.

我记得是a16z首创的。

I think that was an a 16 Z original.

严格来说应该是波卡基金会。

Was, that was technically was polka dot foundation.

那是...

Was that was

什么情况，最初是丹·伍德提出的，后来a16z借用来扩大成更广泛的现象。

what the, it was, it was Dan Wood and then a 16 Z co opted it to make it into a broader phenomenon.

首先明确一点，我们得大大感谢Web3这个梗，因为我认为Web3概念吸引的人群规模远超加密货币的受众范围。

And look, to be clear, we owe a big credit to the Web3 meme because I think the set of people to whom the Web3 concept appeals is so much larger than the set of people to whom crypto appeals.

而且，'读写拥有'的核心理念确实非常美妙。

And, you know, the whole read, write, own philosophy is beautiful.

这就像是在为'小人物也能玩转科技'的理念买单，这种故事很容易让所有人产生共鸣。

You know, it's a pay in to the idea that like, Hey, you know, the small guy, little tech, it's like a really just, it's easy for everybody to get on board with that story.

但要说'来资助些永续合约，交易一堆疯狂玩意儿'这种故事，想获得认同就困难多了。

It's a lot harder to get on board with the story of like, Hey, you know, let's go fund some perp taxes and like trade a bunch of crazy shit.

现在都2025年了。

You know, here we are 2025.

好的。

Okay.

换个话题，聊聊我自己吧。

So switching gears, let's talk about me.

上周我和圣地亚哥进行了一场重要辩论。

So there was a big debate that I did last week with Santiago.

圣地亚哥是一个名为Inversion协议的创始人。

Santiago is a founder of a protocol called Inversion.

他是该领域的重要投资者，加密货币领域最活跃的天使投资人之一。

He's a big investor in the space, one of the most actual angel investors in crypto.

我们上次讨论了我发表的一篇题为《为指数级增长辩护》的文章，我在文中基本上为第一层区块链这个类别进行了辩护。

And we talked last time about an article I put out called In Defense of Exponentials, where I basically defended layer ones as a category.

而桑蒂当时的反应是：'嘿，说得确实很好听'。

And Santi was very like, Hey, yeah, look, this is really nice to say.

虽然用词很高大上，但得了吧，让我们看看这些市盈率。

It's a very highfalutin language, but come on, let's look at these PE ratios.

以太坊的市盈率高达380倍。

Ethereum is trading at a PE ratio of three eighty.

人们认为这些估值是合理的，这简直荒谬至极。

It's absolutely absurd that people think that these valuations are justified.

Solana的市盈率也接近50倍。

Solana is trading at like almost 50.

为什么会有人为此买单？

Why is anyone paying this?

价格下跌的原因在于人们逐渐意识到所有这些公链都被高估了。

That's the reason why prices are going down is that people are waking up to the fact that all these chains are overvalued.

所以我跟他争论，我说，不，这完全是胡扯。

And so I argued with him, and I said, No, this is bullshit.

这不是看待这个问题的正确方式。

This is not the right way to look at this.

最后我们在ThreadGuyShow上进行了一场辩论。

And we ended up doing a debate on ThreadGuyShow.

那场辩论引起了巨大反响，真正引发了一场关于如何评估Layer 1价值的更大风暴。

That debate ended up getting a huge amount of play and really kicked off a larger firestorm about how should Lair 1s be valued.

桑蒂那边的人基本上认为：'我们已经过了把这些项目当作早期初创公司、闭眼接受这些糟糕指标和缺乏年增长数据的阶段'。

You have people on one side, on Santi's side, basically saying that like, Hey, we're past the stage of just looking at these things like early stage startups and closing our eyes and just kind of swallowing these horrendous metrics and the lack of year over year growth.

而我这边则认为：'这些技术需要很长时间才能发展成熟'。

And then you have my side, which is, hey, these technologies take a long time to develop.

如果将其与互联网、电子商务相比，这些都是需要长时间发展才能形成的趋势，而市场是前瞻性的，不是只看当下。

And if compare this to the internet, you compare it to e commerce, these are trends that took a long time to develop and markets are forward looking, they're not present looking.

如果你看看这些公司的利润，无论是亚马逊、优步、谷歌还是其他公司，这些企业在成立十年后都还没有盈利，而以太坊现在才十年历史。

And if you look at the profits of these companies, whether it's Amazon or Uber or Google or whatever, none of these companies had profits even ten years in, and Ethereum is ten years old.

这就是我的论点。

So that was my side of the argument.

我很好奇，不知道你们是否注意到这场风波，但它似乎引发了更广泛的讨论。

Curious, I don't know if you guys saw any of this hubbub coming around, but it seems to have triggered a broader set of conversations.

你们对L1估值辩论有什么看法？

What's your guys' take on the L1 valuation debate?

你们认为L1是被高估还是低估了？

Do you guys think L ones are overvalued undervalued?

还有，你们站在哪一边？或者说更倾向于哪种观点？

And, where, where do you fall on the side or where are you sympathetic?

我先声明一下，我并没有观看你们的辩论。

Well, I'll preface by saying I did not watch your debate.

我甚至不看我们自己的内容。

I don't even watch our content.

但是

But

你不看我们的内容。

you don't watch our content.

不看。

No.

我只看到社交媒体实习生发布的剪辑片段。

I see the clips that the chopping block social media intern posts.

是的。

Yeah.

它们非常棒。

And they're incredible.

我会看到新制作的内容，比如那些帽子梗图之类的，但我其实从未完整看过或听过一期节目

And I see like, you know, the new content that gets made and I see like the hat memes and all of that, but I've actually never watched or listened to an episode of the job

黑色的。

in black.

为什么我能问为什么你不听我们的播客？

Why can I ask why why don't you listen to our podcast?

我不想重温每集带来的心理创伤。

I don't wanna relive the psychic trauma from each episode.

我只是，你知道的，顺其自然。

I just, you know, let it be.

你会听其他你参与的播客吗？

Do you listen to other podcasts that you do?

我对此非常感兴趣。

I'm I'm very interested by this.

这其实真的很有意思。

This is actually really interesting.

不会。

No.

我听过的。

I did.

这是个奇怪的冷知识。

This is a weird fun fact.

事实上我从未听过自己参与的播客。

I've actually never listened to a podcast that I've done before.

如果你听

If you listen to

自己的播客，

your own podcast,

那会让你

what does that make

有什么感觉？

you feel?

当你听自己的播客时，这会让你有什么感受？

What does that make you feel when you listen to your own podcast?

你知道，我不这么做是因为我就是我自己。

You know, I don't do it because I'm myself.

所以如果我听播客，我会回听然后觉得，哦，我不喜欢那个回答或观点。

So if I'm listening to a podcast, I'll listen back and I'll be like, Oh, I don't like that answer or that take.

我就是不这么做。

I just don't do it.

不想要那种好处。

Don't want that good.

那不是

Isn't that

自我提升吗？

self improvement?

这是

This is

心理健康问题。

a mental health thing.

我同意。

I agree.

所以我会听我们所有的播客，然后总是做笔记，比如‘哦，我应该早点结束这部分’。

So I listen to all of our podcasts and I'm always like taking notes about, Oh, I should should have have cut this off sooner.

我应该这么做的。

I should have done this.

应该在那里插话的。

Should have jumped in there.

但我能理解那种‘天啊，我他妈太讨厌自己在这期播客里的表现了’的感觉。

But I, but I get it if it's like, oh man, I fucking hate how I did on this podcast.

那些时刻确实很痛苦。

That those are painful.

如果我在播客里真的搞砸了，我就会想：知道吗？

If I, if I really fuck up on a podcast, I'm like, you know what?

这次我认栽，不去听那期了。

I'm gonna take the L not gonna listen to that one.

继续前进吧。

Just move on.

我讨厌听自己的声音，所以不会听这个。

I hate listening to my own voice, so I'm not gonna listen to this.

幸运的是，听众并不讨厌听

Luckily, listeners don't hate listening to

你的声音。

your voice.

是啊。

Yeah.

我就是觉得听着

I just like I hear it.

我就觉得，我

I'm like, I

不想听。

don't wanna listen.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

那么，回到问题上来。

Well, back to the question.

我打断

I cut

你了。

you off.

对。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

所以是L1辩论。

So L1 debate.

我不认为它们被严重高估了，但确实存在轻微高估的情况。

I don't think that they're too overvalued, but I think they are slightly overvalued.

我认为它们被轻微高估却未被充分重视的原因在于，总有新项目诞生的可能性。

And the reason why I think that they're slightly overvalued that is underappreciated is that there's always the possibility of making new ones.

无论是明年、两年后、五年后还是二十年后，我相信总会有聪明的团队出现——可能是车库里的三人小组，也可能是Stripe这样的公司宣布要推出新L1链来改变游戏规则。

And I think that whether it's next year, two years from now, five years from now, twenty years from now, I think you're still going to have smart teams, whether they're like three guys in a garage or whether they're Stripe saying we're going to launch a new L one because we want to do things differently.

我们想要拥有自己的代币。

We want to have our own token.

我们想要拥有自己的东西。

We want to have our own thing.

因此从竞争基础来看，我认为它们是被高估的。

And so I think they're overvalued from the basis of competition.

如果你观察整个生态并假设：如果今天之后再也不会有新的L1诞生，那它们当前的估值合理吗？

If you looked at, you know, the ecosystem, you said, if there was never a new L1 that was launching today, are they fairly valued?

老实说，我认为答案很可能是肯定的。

I would say actually probably, frankly.

因为我的确认为

Like, because I do think

你是认为整体规模合适，但分配方式有些错位吗？

Do think the pie is right sized, but the distribution is sort of misallocated?

是的，

Yes,

我认为整体规模是合适的。

I think the pie is right sized.

考虑到我们处理的交易价值以及验证这些交易所需的安全成本，我觉得这个估值并不离谱。

I think when you think about the value of the transactions that we're processing and what that security should cost to validate those transactions, it doesn't feel out of whack to me.

真正不合理的是，围绕这块蛋糕的竞争永远不会结束。

What feels out of whack is the fact that the competition's never going to end for that pie.

而且我认为当前市场会持续被新代币稀释，几乎永无止境地增发。

And, you know, I think the current market is gonna continue to be diluted by new tokens, new issuance almost in perpetuity.

这种游戏什么时候才会停止？

Like, when does that game stop?

对吧？

Right?

什么时候人们会说，哦，我们已经解决了那些问题。

When do people say, like, oh, we solved l ones.

对吧？

Right?

我们没什么新东西需要开发了。

There's nothing new that we should build.

得了吧。

Come on.

总会有新进入者的。

There's always gonna be new entrants.

所以，我认为整个市场规模可能是合理的。

And so, you know, I think the total pie is probably correct.

对吧？

Right?

我不认为这很重要，比如，我们会基于300倍市盈率来估值。

I don't think it matters that it's like, oh, we'll value it based on 300 price to earnings.

随便吧。

Like, whatever.

不。

No.

问题是，这种安全性的价值在于什么？比如，用于计算流动的经济价值？

It's like, what's the value of the security for, like, computation of economic value flying around?

这在我看来没问题。

That seems fine to me.

对吧？

Right?

我只是认为当前这批（项目）相对于未来的价值可能会更低。

I just think that the current crop should potentially be worth less relative to the future.

你觉得以太坊是这样的吗？

You think that's like Ethereum?

你觉得这像是更深层次的问题吗？

Do you think that's like the deeper down?

是啊。

Yeah.

我认为这涉及所有方面。

I I think it's everything.

我觉得这涉及所有方面。

Think it's I think it's everything.

如果由我决定，我可能会把所有第一层区块链的市值砍掉50%。

If it was up to me, I'd probably knock 50% off the market cap of, you know, all the L1s.

所以是所有项目。

So off of everything.

这意味着你认为未来会有新人获取其中一半的价值。

That means you think half the value will be captured by some new guy in the future.

罗伯特的黑色星期五。

Robert's Black Friday.

这就像是罗伯特的黑色星期五大促销。

This is like Robert's Black Friday sale.

各位，我不是交易员。

Guys, I'm not a trader.

好吗？

Okay?

我可以是

I can be

大错特错。

way off here.

但是，当你把所有价值加起来时

But, like, yeah, when you add up the value that all

那你长期持有L1代币吗？

Are are you long L1s then?

一般持有一点儿，但不算多。

Generally a little tiny bit, but not really.

好的。

Okay.

所以，是的。

So, yeah.

对。

Yeah.

好吧。

Alright.

所以你是...

So so you yeah.

你的资金

Your money's

实际上，既然我是LP，而且其他基金都做多所有L1项目，那么是的，我也做多所有L1项目。

already I mean, by the fact that I'm, like, an LP and other funds that are long all the L ones, yes, I'm long all the L ones.

行吧。

Fine.

我是说，

I mean,

如果他们长期持有这些被高估的L类资产，那显然是由白痴在管理。

they're obviously run by idiots if they're long these overvalued L ones.

没错。

Right.

我认为比特币和计算平台之间存在差异，没有人。

I think there's a differentiation between Bitcoin and computation platform, no one.

所以让我

So let me just

搞清楚。

figure that out.

当然。

Sure.

是的。

Yeah.

我们讨论的是智能合约平台。

Is we're talking about we're talking about smart contract platforms.

智能合约。

Smart contract.

图林，你怎么看？

Turrin, what's your what's your take?

我其实认为随着时间的推移，我越来越认同Solana的Anatoli关于发行方面的观点，比如L1的发行量本可以低得多。

I I actually think over time, I am slowly agreeing a lot more with Anatoli from Solana on this issuance aspect of, like, l one issuance probably could be way lower.

但这里存在一个界限，不仅仅是运营基础设施的限制。

But the the there's a a bound that is not, like, purely the operational infrastructure bound.

还有一个界限是链上有多少活动需要以某种方式得到保障，对吧，以及如何评估这一点？

There's a bound that's how much activity do you have on your chain that, like, needs to be secured in some way, right, and, like, valuing that?

我认为长期来看，我对L1估值的主要问题是：你真的相信活动会均匀分布在所有链上，还是会集中在少数链上？

And I think the main problem I have in the long run with l one valuations is, like, do you really believe activity will uniformly spread across all of them, or will it concentrate to a small number?

因为如果集中在少数链上，就会出现富者愈富的哲学，对吧，流动性只会留在少数几条链上。

Because if it concentrates to a small number, then it's like there'll be a rich getting richer philosophy, right, where liquidity is only gonna stay on some small number of chains.

然后，这里存在一个反馈循环。

And then, like, there's there's a there's a feedback loop.

这些代币的反身性，我认为来自于它们长期被使用和赋予价值。

Like, the reflexivity of these tokens, I feel like, comes from, like, their being used and valued in in the long run.

显然短期来看可能会有些疯狂。

Not like, obviously, short run can be kind of crazy.

但存在一种货币金字塔，源于人们想要在链上存储有价值的资产——这些资产本身不一定是链的原生资产。

But there is, like, a monetary pyramid that comes from people wanting to store valuable shit that is not necessarily the chain asset itself on the chain.

对吧？

Right?

比如存储大量稳定币，存储大量现实世界资产（RWA），存储任何东西。

Like, storing tons of stablecoins, storing tons of RWAs, storing whatever.

对吗？

Right?

我只是没看到很多第一层解决方案有这方面的规划。

And I just don't sort of see a plan for a lot of l ones for that.

我并不是说这不可能发生，但确实感觉存在一种类似科斯定理的情况，即每个新的第一层网络都有成本，而且成本似乎更糟。

Now I'm not saying it can't happen, but it does feel like there's, like, a Coase theorem type of thing where it's like there's a cost for each new l one, and it's like cost is worse.

当它们是第n个第一层网络时，它们追赶的成本比第n减一个更糟糕。

When they're the nth l one, their cost to catch up is, like, worse than the n minus first.

而且，这种成本在增加，感觉是以乘法方式递增的。

And, like, that thing is increasing, and it feels like it's increasing multiplicatively.

所以，它们的承载容量应该相当小。

So, like, their carrying capacity, one should be pretty small.

这大概是我粗略估算的结果，就像如果我试图给你一些经济原理的解释，比如我考虑它们需要持续支付的通货膨胀发行成本。

That's sort of my sort of back of the envelope type of, like, if I tried to give you some some economic rationale of, like I think about the inflation issuance costs they perpetually have to pay.

我考虑了活动和流动性成本。

I think about the activity and liquidity costs.

然后我还考虑了它们可能产生的收入。

And then I think about, you know, revenue they might generate.

对吧？

Right?

而且，如果我看这个数据，大概能得出一个数字，比如通过CoStar这类方式，可以推算出大概有多少个l one，但我不认为这个数量相对于总交易量来说有那么大。

And, like, if I look at that, I probably get some, like, number of you can kinda back into a number, like, CoStar, like, of, like, how many l ones are, and I I don't think it's, like, that many relative to the total transaction volume.

这就是我的观点，我不是说只有一个。

That's sort of my I I'm not saying it's one.

对吧？

Right?

我不是说有三个，但我绝对不是说它会随着用户或交易数量的增加而线性增长。

I'm not saying it's three, But I'm not definitely not saying it's, like, it scales with the number of users or transactions.

我认为它基本是恒定的。

I think it's extremely it's, like, constant.

可能，比如说，10个左右。

Like, it might be, like, 10.

汤姆，你怎么看？

Tom, what's your take?

我认为，OEN估值之所以受到严格审查，部分原因是那些2016年的老链至今还在以数十亿美元的市值交易。

I think, I mean, I think the OEN valuation stuff gets heavily scrutinized because one, you have these dyno chains from, like, 2016 that are still trading at, like, billions of dollars.

我认为这确实让人感到困惑，这点我完全理解。

And I think that perplexes people, which I totally get.

而且我认为，正如Rune所说，随着时间的推移，进入这个市场的难度确实大幅增加。

And I think to to Rune's point, it does get substantially more difficult to enter this market over time.

比如，过去几年我们看到有不少L1项目直接被市场拒绝，这简直难以想象。

Like, I think in the past few years, we've seen, like, a number of l ones basically get rejected by the market, which I can't even imagine.

就像是，有些新团队明明资金充足、技术有趣，但市场就是直接否决。

Like, it's it's like new teams with, you know, good capital, interesting tech, and then the market's like, no.

不行。

No.

不行。

No.

我们宁愿要2016、2017年那些随机的垃圾链。

We want random crap chain from, like, 2016, 2017 instead.

这确实令人费解。

And, like, that that's perplexing.

其次是这种L1溢价迷因现象，你可以拥有完全相同的产品。

And then two is sort of this, like, l one premium meme, and it's you can have the same product.

就像，哦，如果是一个应用或dApp的代币，它的估值会在某个特定水平。

And it's like, oh, if it's an a token for an app or a dApp, it gets valued at such and such a, you know, level.

但如果是一条链，它就会发生质变，具备其他属性，然后市场会给它10倍估值倍数。

And if it's a but if it's a chain, it gets transmuted and it has some other property, and now we're gonna give it some 10x multiple.

我觉得在市场上确实能看到这种现象，而且这种迷因存在是有原因的。

And, like, I I you kinda see that a little bit in the market, and I think that's there's a meme for a reason.

我认为这某种程度上印证了Santi的观点，但也存在些自说自话——把L1代币像股票一样估值，这其实偏离了重点。

I I think that kind of Santi's point, I think it's also kind of talking past each other a little bit, is, like, valuing l one tokens like equities, which I think is, like, not the kind of point.

对吧？

Right?

关键在于，听着：

The point is is, hey.

在这个领域里，这些资产相对于其他投资形式是如何被估值的？

Within this space, how are these valued relative to other forms of investment?

我认为这并不像是一种股权。

And I think there's there's sort of this it's not like a equity.

它也不是商品。

It's not a commodity.

它可能是第三种不同的东西，在这种情况下，我其实不太认同那种观点。

It's maybe a third different kind of thing, in in which case, like, yeah, I kind of don't really agree with that perspective.

市场是非常具有前瞻性的。

Like, the market is very forward looking.

也许一切都会趋于平衡。

Maybe all is equal.

我认为资本可能存在错配，对底层协议的投资过度集中于应用层，但我觉得过去几年已经在逐步修正。

I think there is probably misallocation of capital overallocation of capital to l ones versus applications, but I think that's been correcting over the past few years.

所以我也说不准。

So I don't know.

除非你掌握某些极其特殊的信息或观点，或者知道市场尚未充分定价的重大差异因素，否则我还是倾向于相信市场价格——毕竟这就是市场的定价。

I'm I'm also just inclined to believe the market price unless you, you have some extremely outsized information or view or you think there's, or you know that there's something substantially different that the market isn't really pricing in and like this is kind of the price of the market.

所以在框架方面，我基本同意Santi的观点。

So actually in terms of framework, I mostly agree with Santi.

我认为曾几何时，看待第一层代币的正确方式是将其视为一种混合体——它到底是商品？

I think there was once upon a time when the right way to look at layer one tokens is that they were these kind of hybrid, well, is it a commodity?

是货币？

Is it a currency?

还是股权？

Or is it an equity?

它确实兼具这三者的特性，比如以太坊早期的需求主要来自作为ICO储备货币的ICO热潮，随后又成为NFT的储备货币，当然还有SOL作为迷因币的储备货币。

And it had really hybrid characteristics of all three because if you look at Ethereum, a lot of demand for Ethereum in the early days came from the ICO boom of being the reserve currency of ICOs, then after that becoming the reserve currencies of NFTs, and of course, your SOL being the reserve currency of meme coins.

现在这些需求大部分已经消退，对吧？

A lot of that has really fallen away, right?

这部分需求在这些资产中的占比越来越小。

It's become an increasingly smaller part of the demand for these assets.

随着这种情况的发展，我认为最终稳定状态很可能是商品属性和货币属性都会被第三类特性——即公链的股权属性——所主导。

And as that happens, I think likely the steady state is actually that the commodity usage and the monetary usage just get dominated by the third, which is just the equity of the chain.

所以我实际上认为他是对的，从长远来看，我们不太可能用以太币来为大量事物定价。

And so I actually think he's right that in the limit, it's probably not going to be that we're going be pricing a bunch of things in ether.

而且很可能大部分需求并非来自将其作为商品用于支付gas费。

And it's probably not the case that most of the demand for comes from commodity usage of just using it to pay gas.

我认为以太币的价值确实可能源自对这条链的需求，而这种需求又来自某种销毁机制或费用流向验证者。

I think it is probably correct that the value of ether comes from the demand for the chain and the demand for the chain coming from some kind of burning or just fees going to validators.

我只是觉得，虽然这部分不是零，但约85%到90%的估值总和将会是现金流权益部分。

I just think that, like, I mean, it's not zero, but it's like, you know, 85%, 90% of the kind of sum of parts valuation is going to be the sort of cash flow equity component.

我只是认为，要达到稳态还需要很长时间。

I just think that it's going to be, it's going to take a long time to get to steady state.

而在这漫长的过程中，这些东西将会大幅增长。

And in that long time, like this stuff is just going to grow a lot.

它会变得非常、非常、非常庞大——当链上资产从不足M2的1%增长到...就像Scott Besson预测的，他认为到本年代末稳定币将占货币供应量的15%。

It's going grow like really, really, really fucking big when you have less than 1% of M two that's on chain growing to, you know, like Scott Besson is saying that he thinks 15% of the money supply is gonna be stable coins by the end of the decade.

这确实非常非常庞大。

That's really, really big.

而目前，基本上是以太坊上的加密资产和一些稳定币为主。

And right now, you know, it's basically crypto assets and like some stable coins that are on Ethereum.

如果这种趋势持续发展，越来越多的金融资产——高价值的金融资产——都转移到以太坊上，那么互联网的答案始终是：降低费用，通过规模来弥补。

If that continues to grow and more and more financial, like valuable financial assets are on Ethereum, like it's just the answer for the internet was always you cut the fees and you make it up on scale.

这些AI公司也是同样的道理。

Same thing with all these AI companies.

所有这些代币每年都以惊人的速度变得越来越便宜，而收入却在增长。

All these tokens are getting cheaper and cheaper and cheaper every single year at an insane rate, and yet revenues are increasing.

因此我认为这必然是最终的答案。

And so I think that has to be the answer.

如果你相信这种指数级的渗透故事——这个东西会逐渐吞噬越来越多的金融领域——这正是我深信不疑的。

If you believe in this exponential kind of saturation story, that this thing just starts to eat more and more finance, like that's genuinely what I believe.

在那个世界里，是的，越来越多的价值将被这些链捕获。

And in that universe, yeah, more and more of the value is gonna get captured by these chains.

那么，是以太坊吗？

Now, is it Ethereum?

谁知道呢？

Who knows?

对吧？

Right?

我并不确信以太坊会胜出，但显然，以太坊目前处于领先地位，这场竞赛是它可能输掉的游戏。

I'm not confident that it's gonna be Ethereum, but I think, obviously, Ethereum has you know, it's Ethereum's game to lose right now in terms of being the front runner.

塔伦，你在我回答中途笑了。

Tarun, you were laughing in the middle of my answer.

你想告诉我你在笑什么吗？

Do you wanna do you wanna tell me what you were laughing at?

我猜...我笑是因为我在想，很多一级市场的估值其实更多取决于韩国和土耳其交易员的突发奇想，而非其他因素。

I I guess, like, I'm just laughing because, like, I'm just thinking a lot about how l one valuations really just depend on the whims of traders in Korea and Turkey more than more than a lot of other things.

你应该看看这些资产的土耳其里拉交易对。

I'd you should look at TRY pairs for some of these assets.

有时候它们的交易价格会远高于美元计价。

They sometimes will be trading way higher than all the USD.

但是，我是说，最近主要是美国市场在下跌。

But, I mean, late but lately, it's been mostly US markets that have been dropping.

不。

No.

但是

But

我的观点是那些交易者似乎都不在买这些资产了，相比之下。

my point is all those traders seem to not be around buying these things comparatively.

这是

Which is

为什么我认为价格是

why I think the price is

但我是说，看，以太币相对其他山寨币还算坚挺，对吧？

But I mean, look, I mean, Ether is holding, mean, relative to alts, right?

山寨币已经被摧毁了。

Alts have gotten destroyed.

以太坊现价3000美元，过去六个月涨幅相当可观。

Ether's at 3,000 I 300, mean, it's like, it's up over the last six months by a pretty large margin.

虽然从4900美元高点回落不少，但按百分比算，回调幅度与比特币相差不大。

So obviously, you know, it's down quite a bit from 4,900, but you know, it's not like crazy off from where Bitcoin retrace as well in percentage terms.

好吧。

So, okay.

抛开L1估值不谈——我们的L1确实被高估了。

So beyond this L1 valuation, Hey, our L1's overvalued.

还有另一股末日情绪在蔓延，就是Ken Chan那篇病毒式传播的文章。我们Dragonfly其实和他很熟，因为投资过他的公司AYVO。

There was another injection of doomerness into the zeitgeist, which was this viral post by this guy Ken Chan, who actually, I think actually we at Dragonfly know pretty well because we actually backed his company, which was AYVO.

Ken写了篇题为《我在加密货币领域浪费了八年光阴》的文章。

And so Ken, he wrote this piece called I Wasted Eight Years of My Life in Crypto.

这篇文章不仅在加密推特圈疯传，

And this piece went super viral beyond just crypto Twitter.

更在整个科技行业引发了广泛讨论。

It went sort of viral more broadly within the tech industry.

他基本观点是：我当初因为自由意志主义和兰德式密码朋克信仰进入加密领域。

And basically what he argues is that, look, I got into crypto because of these libertarian kind of Randian cypherpunk beliefs.

我以为加密货币会创建一个全新的去中心化金融体系，但实际我们得到了什么？

I thought that crypto was gonna create a new decentralized financial system, but instead what did we get?

不过是些赌博和投机循环——DEX、梗图、NFT之类的东西。

But just, you know, gambling and speculation loops with, you know, DEXs and memes and NFTs and all this stuff.

他的核心论点是这个行业奖励零和游戏与叙事炒作，而非真正有价值的产品。

His claim is that the industry rewards zero sum games and narratives over real products.

他认为自己最终构建的东西反而让世界变得更糟。

And that he thought that ultimately he had made the world worse by building what he ended up building.

他确实赚了些钱，但坦言对自己所做之事毫无成就感。

He made some money and he's like, but look, I don't really feel good about what I did.

或许我在加密领域这八年所做的一切都是在浪费时间。

And maybe I wasted my eight years that I spent in crypto doing all this stuff.

这个观点引发了各种不同的回应。

So got a lot of different responses.

我写了一篇引起热议的回应，谈到加密货币从一开始就伴随着赌场文化。

I wrote a response that got some play talking about how crypto has always had casinos from the very beginning.

如果你回顾历史，Satoshi骰子曾是比特币上第一个爆红的游戏。

If you look at Satoshi dice was the first viral game on Bitcoin.

以太坊上第一个爆红的游戏则是'以太山之王'。

King of the Ether Hill was the first viral game on Ethereum.

愚蠢的游戏一直存在。

And there's always been stupid games.

如果你允许人们用钱做任何事，他们首先学会的就是赌博。

If you can allow people to do anything with money, first thing you're gonna do is learn how to gamble.

尽管如此，这个行业确实正在发生很多有意义的事情。

But nevertheless, there's a lot of real stuff that's happening in the industry.

对于那些幻想破灭或项目失败的人，比如AVO显然在更宏观层面并不成功...

And I think for people who are disillusioned or who just built something that didn't work, know, AVO obviously has not been successful in the broader scheme.

这些人应该向前看，把空间留给我们其他人来建设。

It's important for those people to move on and to kind of leave the space for the rest of us to build stuff.

其实我特别喜欢Chain Yoda的帖子，他说希望加密货币总统能补偿这个人，让他们把本该在加密货币之外浪费的八年人生要回来。

And I think actually I really liked the post by Chain Yoda who said, I'd like the president of cryptocurrency to compensate this person for the eight years of their life they could have wasted outside of crypto instead.

总之虽然有点情绪宣泄，但我觉得特别好笑。

Anyway, kind of a bit of a dump, but I thought that was really funny.

嗯，好帖子。

Yeah, good post.

好奇你们几个是怎么回应的。

Curious what your guys' response was.

如果你们没看到的话，这帖子出现在你们时间线时是什么情况。

I'm this came across your feed, if not just the kind of fallout when this post came across your guys' feeds.

你们对这种情绪怎么看？我觉得很多人读到这篇帖子时都有共鸣。

How'd you guys feel about The sentiment that, I think many people echoed when they read this.

他们就像在说：是啊，我也有同感。

They're like, yeah, I'm feeling that same way.

我觉得我可能也在加密货币里浪费了八年光阴。

I feel like I might've wasted eight years of my life in crypto too.

你们感觉如何？

How how do you guys feel?

托尼，你在加密货币上浪费了八年生命吗？

Tony, did you waste eight years of your life in crypto?

说实话，每当圈外人对我这么说时，我确实会时不时产生这种念头。就像我说的，有时候和圈外人聊天，他们那种态度就像在拍你脑袋说

You know, I've certainly had on and off thoughts of that whenever people tell other people tell me that from outside because, like, you know, like I said, like, the the sometimes talking to people outside of crypto, they're, like, it's like patting your head.

'那个Web3玩意儿怎么样了，老兄？'

How's that Web three thing doing, buddy?

懂我意思吧？

You know?

老兄，你

Dude, you

你交的朋友真够差劲的

have you have really shitty friends.

我必须说，每期节目我们都能看到你被朋友欺负的片段

I just have to say, like, I every every show, we get, like, a glimpse into you getting bullied by your friends.

我是说，因为他们基本上都认为这像是个骗局。

I mean, because, like, all of them think and generally do not kind of think it's, like, a scam.

所以，你知道，我感觉自己就像是在艰难跋涉。

So, it's, you know, it's like, I feel like I've just trudged through.

但我想说，我能理解肯为什么会感到失望。

But I would say, I think I can see where that disappointment came in for Ken.

我的意思是，我们也投资了Aevo，我觉得他们本有机会——你知道，在加密领域有个有趣的现象：尽管很多市场准入门槛很低，理论上任何人都能用少量资金开个新的永续合约交易所。

I mean, we also invested in Aevo, and I feel like they had a chance you know, there was kind of in crypto something funny about crypto is that despite there being low barrier to entry for a lot of markets, like, anyone can start a new perps exchange with, like, kind of low amount of capital in theory.

对吧？

Right?

就像，你会看到这种极端集中效应，最后往往只剩下两个主要玩家。

Like, you have this thing where, like, there's, like, extreme concentration effects to, like, two players.

这在MEV（矿工可提取价值）市场就很明显。

You see this in, like, MEV markets.

在永续合约交易所也能看到这种情况。

You see this in perp sexes.

你开始能看到永续合约市场中未平仓量的分布情况。

You're starting to see you can kind of see, like, the the distribution of OI in perp sexes.

现货市场有点奇怪，我想可能是因为地理因素。

Spot is kinda weird, I guess, because it's like there's, like, geographic reasons.

这很奇怪。

It's weird.

但加密货币市场中有很多领域，如果你花很长时间打造了一个运作良好、相当不错的产品，突然某天所有用户都流失到竞争对手那里且再也不回来，这种感觉确实很糟糕。

But but there's, like, lots of markets in crypto where, like and I think, like, if you have spent a long time building a product that works, it's pretty good, and then suddenly lose all your users one day to someone and then they just don't come back, yeah, it feels shitty.

对吧？

Right?

通常这种情况下，你要么转型要么就放弃。

Like, usually, you either pivot or kind of move on.

我认为他们选择坚持是因为这个市场确实很大。

And I think in their case, they just really stuck with it because it is a big market.

这个市场不一定会只有一个赢家。

There's not gonna necessarily be one winner.

但我确实觉得，是的，这可能是个煎熬的过程。

But I do think, like, yeah, it can be grinding.

我认为2023年对很多人来说显然是个艰难的年头，肯也经历了这些。

I think 2023 in particular was, like, obviously, a tough year for a lot of people, and Ken's been lived through that.

而且我想，如果你从外部观察，看到人工智能、生物科技、纳米技术等领域那些令人兴奋的发展，你可能会想，好吧。

And I think, you know, if you look on the outside and you see things in AI or bio or nanotech or whatever that are, like, exciting, you might be like, okay.

那么，我是不是错过了什么？

Well, should I miss right?

机会成本总是存在的。

There's always opportunity cost.

现在奇怪的是，确实感觉加密货币市场的基本面正在扩张，我的意思是，简直像是没有明天一样。

Now the weird thing is that it does feel like the crypto market fundamentals are just gonna be expanding as I mean, yeah, like, as if there's no tomorrow.

所以某种程度上，你必须在脑子里保持这种辩证思维。

So it's sort of there's kinda you have to have this dialectic in your head.

是啊。

Yeah.

我觉得现在说这个有点奇怪。

I feel like this is a weird time to say this.

对吧？

Right?

就像FTX崩盘后那样，确实。

It's like maybe after FTX collapsed, like, yeah.

我当时就有这种感觉。

I felt that.

我当时正在谈论这个，但我就觉得...

Like, I was talking about that, but I'm like

那是我感受最深的时候。

That was, like, the time I felt it the most.

现在吗？

Right now?

那绝对是幻灭的低谷期。

That was the trough of disillusionment for sure.

是啊。

Yeah.

那是大约三年前的事了。

It's, like, three years ago.

完全同意。

Totally.

完全同意。

Totally.

所以现在所有迹象都表明，行情在上涨。

So like, so now all mean, like up.

我是说，这就像

I mean, it's like

比如，我很喜欢Ken，显然我们也支持Avo，但兄弟，是你决定转向永续合约平台的。

Like, I I love Ken and obviously, yeah, we backed Avo, but I'm like, bro, you you decided to pivot into a perp decks.

那是你自己的决定。

Like, that was your decision.

听着，如果你不想开赌场，那就别他妈开赌场。

Like, if you if you did not want to build a casino, don't build a fucking casino.

简直了。

That's literally

正确的选择。

the right choice.

名副其实的赌场。

Literal casino.

是啊。

Yeah.

不知道。

Don't know.

汤姆，你怎么看？

Tom, what's your what's your take?

嗯。

Yeah.

我的意思是，我认同大部分观点。

I mean, I think I agree with a lot of the sentiment.

我认为加密货币领域存在这种常见模式。

I think, there's this, like, pattern that happens a lot in in crypto.

其实整个科技行业都有这种现象，但对创业者来说最痛苦的莫过于：虽然入场早，却因时机或执行失误，最终眼睁睁看着别人超越自己、夺走王冠。

I mean, it happens in in general tech, but it's like, I think the most one of most painful paths for founders is also, like, being early but missing on timing or execution and then just seeing someone else lap you and kind of seize the crown.

这时候你会觉得——凭什么？我明明应该加冕的。

And it's like, you you feel like you feel, like, entitled to have the crown because, like, no.

明明是我先来的。

I was here first.

是我先发现机遇并付诸行动的，理应由我主导。

I saw the the thing, and I did the thing, and, like, I should be here.

这个情况适用于很多团队、公司和协议，但最痛苦的莫过于那些在加密领域深耕多年的人——

And I there there's many, many teams and companies and protocols that this could be applicable to, but I'm I'm sure it is also painful to, like, have been building in crypto for so long.

他们早期参与PerpTex，产品已有用户和交易量，却突然发现：'虽然我的判断没错，但最终却没能守住这个领域'。

They said build be early to PerpTex, have a thing that was, you know, working and had users and have volume and then feel like, oh, like, actually, I don't I don't have this thing even though I was I was I was right.

所以，我不知道。

And so I I don't know.

我...我想我理解这种感受，但我同意这个观点。

I I I think I I empathize, but I agree to it.

感觉现在发布这个的时机很奇怪，就像...我也说不清楚。

It's felt like a weird time to publish this when it's like, I think I don't know.

整体情绪似乎相当乐观，基本面也不错。

It feels like overall sentiment is, like, pretty good and fundamentals are good.

就像过了一个月，你就会想，天啊，我在这上面浪费了八年时间。

Like a month, and you're just like, oh, I wasted eight years in terms of it.

就像是...对啊。

It's like Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

现在才意识到这点感觉很奇怪，仅仅因为ETH价格下跌了。

This seems like a weird time to have that realization just because ETH is down.

罗伯特，你对这篇文章有什么看法？

Robert, what's your take on the piece?

你是那个建设者，DeFi领域的专家？

You're the builder, DeFi guy?

是的。

Yeah.

我是说，我确实认为很多想法已经被玩烂了。

I mean, I do think that a lot of ideas have been played out.

我认为人们正在或已经学会了正确的方向。

I think people are learning or have learned right.

加密货币分为两种类型。

That there's two types of crypto.

一种是糖水型加密货币，另一种是建设实物的加密货币。

There's sugar water crypto and there's build real things crypto.

没错。

Right.

确实，曾经有过一个充斥着大量糖水加密项目的时代，那时候人们会说‘哦，我们先搞积分，再把积分变成代币，然后用代币和积分来激励那些除了积分和代币外没有多少内在价值的东西’。

And yes, there was an era where there was a lot of sugar water crypto where it was like, oh, let's have points and then turn them into tokens and then use the tokens and the points to incentivize the thing that has not that much fundamental value besides the fact that there's points and there's tokens.

这就是一种循环往复的游戏。

And that's a thing that goes in circles.

大多数时候人们很开心，但有时他们并不满意，而我们并没有试图实现任何新东西。

Most of the time people are happy and some of the time they're not happy and we're not trying to achieve anything new.

我们只是在用糖水玩旋转木马游戏。

We're playing a merry-go-round with sugar water.

对吧？

Right?

这种情况一直存在。

That has always existed.

没错。

Right.

这类事情已经发生过很多了。

There's been a lot of that.

也有人认为加密货币非常了不起。

There's also people who are saying crypto is amazing.

这项技术很有用。

This technology is useful.

我们可以用它构建以前从未实现过的东西。

We can build things that have never been possible before with it.

没错。

Right.

这种力量既可用于娱乐游戏和糖水般浅薄的应用，也能用于变革资产流动方式、改变社会共识形成机制，以及重构激励机制来协调合作。

And that power can be used for fun games and sugar water, or it can be used for transforming the way that assets move and transforming the way that social consensus occurs and transforming the way that, you know, this incentives work to like align cooperation.

来Superstate找份工作吧。

There's come get a job at Superstate.

如果你想做些真正有意义的事，就来Superstate工作。

If you want to build real shit, come work at Superstate.

是啊。

Yeah.

如果你想做实事，就来Superstate工作吧。

Like, if you want to build real shit, come get a job at Superstate.

但也有很多与我们同行的公司也在做实事，他们的理念是：我们要让金融市场变得更快速、更便宜、更好、更高效、更出色。

But there's a lot of companies that are our peers as well that are like building real shit that are like, hey, we're here to make financial markets faster, cheaper, better, more efficient, more awesome.

没错。

Right.

我们致力于让一切更公平、更透明。

We're here to make things more fair and more transparent.

对。

Right.

这样人们就不容易再上当受骗。

So that like people can't get scammed in the same way.

要知道，区块链有无数惊人的应用场景。

So, you know, it's like there's a million incredible use cases.

你可以选择投身其中。

You can choose to work on this.

你可以选择去研究那些华而不实的东西。

You can choose to work on sugar water merry-go-round.

对吧。

Right.

我理解。

Like, I get it.

我也能看出那种东西很容易让人精疲力尽。

Like, I also can see getting burned out easily on that stuff.

是不是？

Right?

任何感到厌倦的人都有选择——要么离开，要么找到那些真正酷的应用场景并投入其中。

And anyone who does has a choice leave or find the pockets of like really cool use cases and work on them.

但你要知道，加密货币是个巨大的保护伞。

But you know, crypto is a massive umbrella.

它的覆盖面太广了。

It's so wide.