小肯尼迪接受质询，欧洲多国承诺向乌克兰派兵，华盛顿特区起诉特朗普政府

卫生与公众服务部长小罗伯特·F·肯尼迪在一次激烈的参议院听证会上为其疫苗立场辩护。

Health and Human Services secretary Robert f Kennedy junior defended his position on vaccines in a contentious senate hearing.

现在那些决定让孩子回来的家长——参议员，你在胡编乱造。我没有——你就是在胡编乱造。

Now parents who decide that they do want their children back You're making stuff up, Senator. I I'm not You're just making stuff up.

那么关于谁能接种疫苗，你有什么要说的？

So what do you have to say about who can get vaccines?

我是米歇尔·马丁，这位是A·马丁内斯，这里是NPR新闻的《晨间要闻》。欧洲国家已最终确定承诺为乌克兰提供战后安全保障，包括在陆地、海洋和空中的驻军。现在该计划将提交给美国。

I'm Michelle Martin. That's A Martinez, and this is up first from NPR News. European countries have finalized a commitment to provide postwar security guarantees for Ukraine, including troops on the ground in the sea and in the air. Now the plan heads to The US.

可以看到美国将提供欧洲所不具备的军事能力。

You could see The US providing capabilities that Europeans do not have.

特朗普总统会予以支持吗？

Will president Trump give it his support?

哥伦比亚特区总检察长正就特朗普政府在该市部署国民警卫队提起诉讼，称其为军事占领。请继续收听，我们将为您带来开启一天所需的全部新闻。

And the attorney general for the district of Columbia suing the Trump administration over its deployment of the National Guard of the city, calling it a military occupation. Stay with us. We've got all the news you need to start your day.

大家好，我是NPR音乐的罗宾·希尔顿，为所有喜爱《小桌音乐会》的朋友带来重磅消息。我们正在赠送前往华盛顿亲临《小桌音乐会》的旅行机会，包含酒店和机票。免费参与详情请访问npr.org/tinydeskgiveaway，无需购买或捐款即可参加。

Hey. It's Robin Hilton from NPR Music with some big news for everyone who loves the Tiny Desk. We're giving away a trip to DC to see a Tiny Desk concert in person, hotel and flights included. Learn more and enter for free at npr.org/tinydeskgiveaway. No purchase or donation required for entry.

参与者须年满18岁。报名页面链接及官方规则详见npr.org/tinydeskgiveaway。

Must be 18 years or older to enter. Links to the entry page and and official rules can be found at npr.org/tinydeskgiveaway.

本消息由《快判》提供。他们的新系列《小小营地》追踪奥克兰一群无家可归者，记录他们为建立自主管理营地的抗争。这是一场关于自由与社区的大胆实验。收听《快判》，各大播客平台均可订阅。

This message comes from Snap Judgment. Their new series, a tiny plot, follows a group of homeless people in Oakland as they fight to create their own encampment run by their own rules. It's a bold experiment in freedom and community. Listen to Snap Judgment wherever you get your podcasts.

在Radiolab，我们最热衷的就是钻研科学、神经科学和化学这些硬核话题。

At Radiolab, we love nothing more than nerding out about science, neuroscience, chemistry.

但我们也喜欢探讨其他类型的故事——关于警务或政治的故事，乡村音乐、冰球运动，甚至是昆虫的性行为。

But but we do also like to get into other kinds of stories. Stories about policing or Politics. Country music Hockey. Sex of bugs.

无论探讨的是科学还是非科学领域，我们都秉持严谨的好奇心为你寻找答案。

Regardless of whether we're looking at science or not science, we bring a rigorous curiosity to get you the answers.

并希望能让你以全新视角看待世界。

And hopefully, make you see the world anew.

Radio Lab，带你探索认知边缘的冒险之旅。

Radio Lab, adventures on the edge of what we think we know.

各大播客平台均可收听。

Wherever you get your podcasts.

数十年来，小罗伯特·肯尼迪以反疫苗活动家的身份积累声望与财富。

For decades, Robert f Kennedy junior built his reputation and fortune as an anti vaccine activist.

这令许多正在考虑提名他担任卫生与公众服务部部长的参议员感到担忧，因此他承诺不会阻止有意接种疫苗的人群。但上任后，多位参议员认为他的系列行为已违背承诺。于是在周四的参议院听证会上，他们要求其作出解释。

That concerned many senators who were considering his nomination to serve as health and human services secretary, so he made promises not to prevent people who want them from getting vaccines. Since he's gotten the job, many of those senators have come to believe he's taken actions that taken together have broken that promise. So in a senate hearing on Thursday, they demanded that he explain himself.

NPR记者Selena Simmons Duffin昨日旁听了听证会，将由她进行解读。Selena，这场听证堪称必看节目，参议员们就疫苗问题向肯尼迪提出了哪些质询？

NPR's Selena Simmons Duffin watched the hearing yesterday, and it's here to explain. So that was, some must see TV, Selena. What questions do the senators have for Kennedy about vaccines?

要知道秋季将至，冬季也不远了。对多数人而言，这意味着要接种流感疫苗和新冠加强针来预防开始传播的呼吸道病毒。但今年FDA批准新冠加强针时附加了限制条件。

Well, you know, fall is coming. Winter is coming. Right? And for a lot of people, that means the flu shot and the COVID nineteen booster to protect against the respiratory viruses that start getting passed around. So this year, the Food and Drug Administration approved the COVID booster with a catch.

该疫苗并非对所有人开放，仅限特定健康状况人群及65岁以上长者。现实中这已引发巨大困惑——医生、患者、保险公司都搞不清具体实施细则。但肯尼迪部长在昨日听证会上坚称任何想要接种的人都能获得疫苗，被追问时更显得怒不可遏。比如与新罕布什尔州民主党参议员玛吉·哈桑的这段关于儿童新冠加强针的对话。

It is not approved for everybody, just people with certain conditions and people 65. And there's already a huge amount of confusion about what that means in real life, you know, for doctors, patients, insurance companies. But yesterday in the hearing, secretary Kennedy insisted that anybody who wants the shot can get it, and he got really angry when he was pressed about it. Here's one example. It was an exchange with senator Maggie Hassan, Democrat of New Hampshire, who was asking about the COVID nineteen booster for kids.

现在决定让孩子接种的家长...参议员，我没有...你完全在捏造事实。肯尼迪先生，有时候指控别人恰恰暴露了自己。

Now parents who decide that they do want their children to act stuff up, senator. I'd I'm not You're just making stuff up. You know, sometimes when you make an accusation, it's kind of a confession, mister Kennedy.

哇哦。那么谁说的对？哈桑参议员还是肯尼迪部长？

Wow. Alright. So who's right? Senator Hassan or, secretary Kennedy?

哈桑说得对——今年健康儿童的父母想获得加强针可能会遇到阻碍。限定接种范围意味着仅凭个人意愿选择接种可能不够。关键变数在于疾控中心免疫实践咨询委员会的决定。记得吗？肯尼迪曾说不会动这个机构，结果却解雇全部17名成员，换上了与他同样有反疫苗背景的人选。

Hassan is right that parents of kids without certain conditions are probably gonna face barriers getting the booster shot this year. This approval only for certain groups means that just wanting the vaccine, you know, making the personal choice to get one might not be enough this year. And, you know, a big question mark is what the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices is going to do. You remember, this is the group that Kennedy said he wouldn't touch, and then he fired all 17 members and replaced them with his picks, many of whom have a history, like him, of anti vaccine activism.

这不仅仅是新冠疫苗的问题。

Now all this isn't just only about COVID nineteen vaccines.

没错。本月下旬该委员会还将审议麻疹、腮腺炎、风疹和乙肝等常规儿童疫苗。科罗拉多州民主党参议员迈克尔·本内特质问肯尼迪，这是否意味着该州学校和家长要准备应对更多麻疹疫情。

Yeah. That's right. The panel who's meeting later this month is also set to consider routine childhood vaccines, like the one for measles, mumps, rubella and hepatitis b. Senator Michael Bennett, Democrat of Colorado, asked Kennedy if that meant schools and parents in his state should be prepared for more measles outbreaks.

我不认为麻腮风疫苗会有变动。ACIP是独立委员会...

I do not anticipate a change in the MMR vaccine. I you know, AZIP is an independent panel. So

得了吧，这委员会可是你刚任命的。你之前还说这些人思想完全脱离主流。

Well, it's it's a panel. You just put those folks on far from what you said. There are people with ideas that are completely outside the mainstream.

你是说突破制药范式？让我澄清...

You mean out of the pharmaceutical paradigm? Let me just say

听证会上肯尼迪多次将疫苗安全有效的科学共识曲解为研究人员被药企收买。佛蒙特州独立参议员桑德斯当场就抓住了这个把柄，堪称名场面。

Yeah. That was one of several times in the hearing that Kennedy equated scientific consensus that vaccines are safe and effective and save lives with researchers somehow being compromised by drug companies. There was a memorable moment when senator Sanders, independent of Vermont, picked up on that.

除了你，其他人都腐败了？这就是我们看到的局面吗？我不这么认为。而且问题在于，你甚至不清楚自己在说什么。好吧，我想你其实明白我的意思。

Everybody is corrupt but you? Is that what we're looking at? Don't think so. And I think the issue is even know what you're talking about. Well, I think you do know what I'm talking about.

我不知道你在

I don't know what you're

在桑德斯的追问下，肯尼迪表示，是的。他确实认为像美国儿科学会这样的主流医学组织不可信，因为它们存在严重利益冲突，并指出其主要资助方是疫苗制造商。

When pressed by Sanders, Kennedy said, yes. He does think mainstream medical organizations like the American Academy of Pediatrics can't be trusted because they're, quote, gravely conflicted and claiming their top contributors are vaccine makers.

这些组织对这些指控有何回应？

Did those organizations have a response to those accusations?

有的。美国儿科学会立即发表声明称这是不实指控，其财务信息是公开的，来自行业的资金占比不到总收入的4%。他们总结道：儿科医生推荐疫苗只有一个原因——疫苗被证实安全有效，是我们保护儿童健康、阻止疾病在社区传播的最有力工具之一。

Yeah. The AAP put out a statement right away that said that was false, and its financial information is public and industry sources represent less than 4% of their revenue. And they concluded, quote, pediatricians recommend vaccines for one reason only. They are proven safe and among the most effective tools we have to protect children's health and stop the spread of disease in our communities.

以上是NPR记者Selena Simmons-Duffin的报道，非常感谢。

That's NPR's Selena Simmons stuff, and thanks a lot.

不客气。

You're welcome.

欧洲已制定出一项战略，旨在确保乌克兰战争结束后的和平与安全。

Europe has finalized a strategy to guarantee peace and security in Ukraine once the war comes to an end.

该计划包括派驻地面部队，于周四在巴黎峰会上宣布。目前尚未得到美国的保证。但今天凌晨，俄罗斯总统弗拉基米尔·普京已作出回应。

The plan, which would include troops on the ground, was announced Thursday at a summit in Paris. It has yet to be guaranteed by The US. But already early this morning, Russian president Vladimir Putin has offered his reaction.

NPR记者Eleanor Beardsley在巴黎为您报道。那么Eleanor，欧洲方面具体公布了哪些内容？

NPR's Eleanor Beardsley is in Paris. So, Eleanor, what did the Europeans announce?

共有35个国家通过现场和视频连线方式聚集于此，不仅限于欧洲国家。这个团体被称为‘志愿联盟’，成员包括澳大利亚、新西兰、日本和加拿大。他们表示已准备好为乌克兰安全作出承诺，并制定了具体计划。

Well, a 35 countries got together physically here and by video link. Not only European. The group is known as the coalition of the willing. It includes Australia, New Zealand, Japan, and Canada. And they say they are ready to commit to Ukraine's security and have concrete plans for it.

法国总统马克龙在会后与乌克兰总统泽连斯基共同发表讲话。他表示：‘我们已有26个国家正式承诺在乌克兰部署一支由陆海空三军组成的安抚部队，在和平宣告之日实地保障安全。’马克龙称虽无法透露细节，但强调各国已做好准备。针对外界质疑，他提醒众人这个联盟已取得巨大进展。

Here's French president Emmanuel Macron who spoke after the meeting standing alongside Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky. Let's listen. He said we have 26 countries formally committed to deploying a reassurance force of troops in Ukraine to be physically present on land, air, or sea to guarantee peace the day it is declared. Now Macron said he could not give any details, but he said they would be ready. And for anyone who thinks this is just more talk, Macron reminded everyone of how far this group has come.

该联盟最初于去年二月在绝望中成立——当时特朗普总统领导下的美国对乌政策与拜登政府截然不同已成定局。马克龙透露，当时仅有两个国家愿意出兵。

They first came together last February in despair, really, when it became very clear that The US under president Trump was gonna be completely different on Ukraine than the Biden administration. Back then, Macron said only two countries were ready to commit troops.

美国将在此联盟中扮演什么角色？

What about The United States? Will it play a role in this, coalition?

马克龙与泽连斯基在会后与特朗普总统进行了长达一个半小时的会谈，称美国的具体角色将在未来数日确定。欧洲各国显然期待美国参与，马克龙宣称美方已全面支持，其特使史蒂夫·维特科夫也出席了巴黎会议。

Well, hopefully, yes. Macron and Zelensky also spoke with president Trump after the meeting. They said they spoke to him for an hour and a half, and they said The US role would be determined in the coming days. Europeans definitely are counting on The US to be there. Macron claimed The US is fully on board and special envoy Steve Witkoff was in Paris at the meeting.

但美国将以何种方式参与——甚至是否参与——仍存疑问。德国马歇尔基金会巴黎办公室主任马丁·卡西向我表示，很难指望美国提供重大保障作为后盾。

But clearly, there are doubts how The US will contribute or even if. And I spoke with Martin Carsey, who is the director of the Paris office of the German Marshall Fund of the United States. And he says it's hard to see a US backstop providing major guarantees.

美国至少可提供情报和后勤支持。在不向乌克兰派兵或正式担保欧洲部队安全的前提下，美方可提供欧洲所不具备的军事能力。

Now the backstop could be at least some sort of intelligence and logistical support. And there you could see The US participating in providing capabilities that Europeans do not have, without obviously sending any troops to Ukraine or officially guaranteeing the the security of those European troops.

普京总统对此声明有何反应？

Okay. But how has, president Putin reacted to the announcement?

普京近日正在中国参加二战结束纪念活动，与盟友中国和朝鲜共同展示反对美国霸权的多极化世界。今晨他明确表示：‘任何驻乌外军都将成为俄军的合法打击目标’——这并不令人意外。

Right. Well, president Putin has been in China over recent days joining huge celebrations on the end of World War two with allies China and North Korea. This is the new multipolar world on display that's against US dominance. And this morning, Putin said that, quote, any foreign troops in Ukraine would be a legitimate target for Russian forces. It's not surprising.

正因如此，马克龙强调乌克兰战后安全的核心支柱其实是强大的乌军。他表示未来不会接受任何对乌克兰军队规模和结构的限制。

And it's why Macron said that the main pillar of Ukraine's postwar security is actually a strong Ukrainian army. He said they will not accept any restrictions on the size and shape of Ukraine's forces in the future.

那么如果弗拉基米尔·普京就是不同意和平协议呢，埃莉诺？

So what if Vladimir Putin, Eleanor, just does not agree to a peace deal?

确实如此。这正是我们一直在目睹的情况。马克龙承认普京认为自己在赢，所以不想停止战争。但他强调俄罗斯为夺取不到20%的乌克兰领土已承受超100万伤亡。马克龙表示若俄方继续拒绝结束战争，将与美国协调实施新经济制裁。

Exactly. And that's what we've been seeing. And Macron admitted that Putin thinks he's winning, so he doesn't wanna stop the war. But he emphasized that Russia has suffered more than 1,000,000 casualties for barely 20% of Ukrainian territory. And Macron said there will be new economic sanctions in coordination with The US if Russia continues to refuse to end its war.

特朗普总统也谈及此事。他未提及制裁，但表示欧洲需要停止购买任何俄罗斯石油。

And president Trump also spoke about that. He didn't mention sanctions, but he said that the Europeans need to stop buying any Russian oil.

好的。以上是NPR驻巴黎记者埃莉诺·比尔兹利的报道。谢谢。

Alright. That's NPR's Eleanor Beardsley in Paris. Thank you.

不客气。

You're welcome.

哥伦比亚特区总检察长已对特朗普政府提起诉讼。

The attorney general for the District of Columbia has filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration.

该诉讼称国民警卫队在特区的部署是'非法调动'。自总统宣布华盛顿特区进入他所谓的犯罪紧急状态三周以来，国民警卫队士兵一直在特区某些街道巡逻。

The lawsuit calls the use of the National Guard in the district a, quote, illegal deployment. National Guard troops have been patrolling certain streets in Washington DC for the past three weeks since the president declared what he calls a crime emergency in the city.

亚历克斯·科马是成员台WAMU负责特区政治的记者。他现在加入我们。亚历克斯，这起诉讼具体指控什么？

Alex Coma covers DC politics for member station WAMU. He joins us now. So, Alex, what is the lawsuit alleging?

是的。特区总检察长布莱恩·施瓦布基本认为这违宪，称这是对军队在国内的不当使用。他强调特区虽无国民警卫队控制权，通常只能在自然灾害或暴乱等紧急情况下提出请求，而这次并未申请。相反，未接受警务训练的国民警卫队员却在特区街头巡逻。不过白宫予以反驳。

Yeah. DC attorney general Brian Schwab is basically calling this, unconstitutional on saying that this is an improper use of the military on, you know, the home soil, you know, here in in The US. And he's drawing out this point that normally, DC, while it doesn't have control of its National Guard, can request it and only in cases of a natural disaster or riot, some sort of emergency, and they haven't done that here. And instead, you've got National Guard troops who aren't trained in policing, patrolling the streets here in DC. But the White House pushed back.

他们发布声明称总统完全在法律授权范围内部署警卫队，并称施瓦布的诉讼是企图破坏总统的行动。

They released a statement basically saying that the president was well within his lawful authority to deploy the guard here and called Schwab's lawsuit an attempt to undermine the president's operation.

你知道，我下周要去华盛顿特区，亚历克斯，所以我对那里的城市面貌挺感兴趣的。但先提醒我们一下，国民警卫队最初为何被部署到特区？

You know, I'm I'm gonna be in DC next week, Alex, so I'm kinda interested to see what the city looks like. But remind us why National Guard troops were deployed, to DC in the first place.

是的。这其实都是特朗普对城市犯罪问题强调的一部分。基本上，他声称这里的犯罪失控了，尽管数据显示许多暴力犯罪实际上处于历史低位。正如我之前所说，控制警卫队的是他本人。特区不是一个州，所以没有州长来管理。

Yeah. Well, this is all part of, Trump's emphasis on crime in the city. Basically, his claim that, you know, crime is out of control here, even though the numbers, of course, show otherwise that that many violent crimes are actually at historic lows. And as I said before, you know, he's the one who controls the guard. DC is not a state, so there's no governor to control it.

这完全在总统的权限范围内。所以无论这里的人们是否认为有必要，他都有权派遣他们进来。而且他已经这么做了，连同来自其他州的警卫，大约2300人，都是这次联邦执法官员大规模涌入城市的一部分，无论是FBI、ICE、DEA，所有那些机构。这里很多人并不乐见他们的到来，许多人觉得在地铁上看到穿制服的军人让人不安。

It's solely in the president's authority. So whether or not people here think it's needed, he's got the power to send them in. And and he has done so, along with guards from other states, about 2,300 of them, all part of this broader surge of federal law enforcement officers into the city, whether it's FBI, ICE, DEA, all the whole alphabet soup. And, you know, many people here aren't really thrilled to see them. Many feel that it's kind of unsettling to see uniformed troops on the metro.

这让人们感到不安，但这并未改变警卫队官员的说法，他们可能至少要待到11月，甚至更久。

It's it's unsettled people, but that hasn't changed the fact that guard officials are saying they should probably be here until at least the November, if not longer.

好吧。那么他们的存在有助于减少犯罪吗？

Well, okay. So has their presence helped reduce crime?

特朗普当然说现在城市没有犯罪了，但我们知道那不是真的。特区警察局发现总体犯罪率有所下降，但我还是要补充，警卫队本身无权逮捕人。他们只能在看到犯罪时通知警察，或在某些情况下直接拨打911。所以很难在这里直接建立关联，因为他们很多时候是在做铺覆盖物和清理公园之类的事。

Well, Trump, of course, said that the city's crime free now, but we know that's not true. The DC police department has found that crime overall has decreased, but I I'd still add that the troop themselves, you know, they're not authorized to make arrests. They can merely notify police if they see a crime or, in some instances, simply call 911. So it's it's kinda difficult to draw any, you know, direct correlation here when a lot of times they're doing things like spreading mulch and cleaning up parks.

不过特朗普总统表示他想把部队派往其他城市。那么这场诉讼对警卫队在其他城市的部署以及在特区的部署意味着什么？

President Trump, though, has said he wants to send troops to other cities. So what could this lawsuit mean for the guard's deployment in other cities and and the deployment in DC?

是的。联邦法院会解决这个问题。它可能会完全让警卫队回家，但一个复杂的因素是，众议院共和党人甚至试图取消特区民选的独立检察长。值得一提的是，一位联邦法官裁定特朗普在加利福尼亚的行动是非法的。所以对于芝加哥或巴尔的摩等地的人们来说，特朗普也威胁要派警卫队去那里，他们会密切关注此事。

Yeah. Well, you know, federal court will hash this out. It could send the guard home entirely, but a complicating factor is that house Republicans are even trying to get rid of DC's elected independent attorney general. And it's worth mentioning that a federal judge, ruled that Trump's actions in California were illegal. So for people in places like Chicago or Baltimore where Trump has also threatened to send the guard in, this is something they'll be watching very closely.

这是WAMU的亚历克斯·科尔马。非常感谢。

That's WAMU's Alex Colma. Thanks a lot.

不客气。

My pleasure.

首先为您带来9月5日周五的新闻。我是艾尔提兹。

And that's up first for Friday, September 5. I'm Eartides.

我是米歇尔·马丁。本周日《早间速递》将关注：美国对石油的渴求在全国各地留下了无数未封堵油井的坟场，其中大多数几乎产不出任何石油。

And I'm Michelle Martin. This Sunday on up first, America's thirst for oil has left a graveyard of unplugged wells all across the landscape. Most hardly produce any oil at all.

这些产量微薄的小油井只能滴漏出些许利润，却在另一端制造污染，根本不值得保留。

These piddly little wells that are just drip drabbing out a little bit of profit while polluting on the other end, they're not worth it.

本周日《早间速递》特别报道将探讨：为何在长期污染的真实威胁下，全美仍有如此多油井未被封堵并遭废弃。

This week on the Sunday story from Up First, a look at why so many wells across the country remain unplugged and abandoned despite the real threat of long term pollution.

草都不长。松树接连枯死。是啊。还有棵树立在那儿，后来也死了。

Grass didn't grow. The pine trees kept dying. Yeah. And there was another tree that sat there, and it died.

《低产井、遗弃井与美国黑金热的历史遗产》，敬请收听《早间速递》播客中的周日特别报道。

Stripper Wells, Orphan Wells, and the legacy of America's love affair for black gold. Listen to the Sunday story right here in the Up First podcast.

本期《早间速递》由黛安·韦伯、米格尔·马西亚斯、玛莎·安·奥弗兰、丽莎·汤普森和爱丽丝·沃尔夫利编辑，制作团队包括齐亚德·布奇、尼亚·杜巴斯和克里斯托弗·托马斯。工程支持由尼莎·海恩斯提供，技术总监是卡莉·斯特兰奇，执行制片人杰伊·谢勒。周一再会。

Today's episode of Up First was edited by Diane Weber, Miguel Macias, Martha Ann Overland, Lisa Thompson, and Alice Wolffley. It was produced by Ziyad Butch, Nia Dubas, and Christopher Thomas. We get engineering support from Nisha Haines, and our technical director is Carly Strange. Our executive producer is Jay Schaylor. Join us again on Monday.

想听无广告版播客？亚马逊Prime会员可通过Amazon Music收听无赞助商插播的《早间速递》，您也可通过plus.npr.org支持NPR重要新闻报道并获取《早间速递Plus》会员内容。网址plus.npr.org。

Wanna hear this podcast without sponsor breaks? Amazon Prime members can listen to Up First sponsor free through Amazon Music, or you can also support NPR's Vital Journalism and get Up First Plus at plus.npr.org. That's plus.npr.org.

我是埃里克·格拉斯。在《美国生活》节目中，我们钟爱出人意料的故事。比如当你发现新爱好时突然意识到——

This is Eric Glass. On This American Life, we like stories that surprise you. For instance, imagine finding a new hobby and realizing

要按大师们的方式正经玩这个爱好，你很可能得打法律擦边球才能搞到所需材料。甚至可能违法。没错，违反国际法那种。

To do this hobby right according to the ways of the masters, there's a pretty good chance that you're gonna have to bend the law to get the materials that you need. If not break it. Yeah. To break international laws.

你的人生故事，那些真正精彩的，《美国生活》节目。

Your life stories, really good ones, This American Life.

好处是，你可以无广告收听超过25个NPR播客。坏处是，你在播客播放器上快进的机会变少了。好处是，你能支持自己关心的事业。坏处是，你喜欢挑战，觉得这样太容易了。所以，何不加入我们，站在NPR Plus的好处这边呢？

On the plus side, you get sponsor free listening to over 25 NPR podcasts. On the minus side, you get fewer chances to tap fast forward on your podcast player. On the plus side, you get to support something you care about. On the minus side, you like challenges and think this makes it too easy. So why don't you join us on the plus side of things with NPR Plus?

了解更多并注册请访问+.npr.org。

Learn more and sign up at +.npr.org.