小罗伯特·肯尼迪参议院作证，美联储提名听证会，哈佛大学法律胜诉

卫生部长小罗伯特·肯尼迪今日在参议院作证。此次听证会本应围绕总统的健康议程展开，但正值CDC（疾病控制与预防中心）动荡之际。

Health secretary Robert f Kennedy junior testifies before the senate today. The hearing is meant to be about the president's health agenda, but it comes on the heels of upheaval at the CDC.

那么立法者们预计会询问哪些问题？

So what are lawmakers expected to ask about?

艾米·马丁内斯，也就是米歇尔·马丁，这里是NPR新闻的头条。特朗普总统希望在美联储安插更多自己人。

Amy Martinez, that is Michelle Martin, and this is up first from NPR News. President Trump wants to install more of his own people at the Federal Reserve.

我们很快将获得多数席位，这将会很棒。一旦我们占据多数，房地产市场就会转向，局面将非常乐观。

We'll have a majority very shortly, so that'll be great. Once we have a majority housing is gonna swing and it's gonna be great.

参议院委员会为填补美联储理事会空缺席位举行的听证会，可能使总统向获得多数席位更近一步。

A senate committee hearing to fill a vacant seat on the fed's governing board could get the president one step closer to reaching that majority.

波士顿一名联邦法官裁定特朗普政府冻结哈佛大学资金的行为违法，为该校带来法律胜利。请继续关注，我们将为您提供开启一天所需的新闻。

And a federal judge in Boston has handed Harvard University a legal victory, ruling the Trump administration's freeze on funding to the university unlawful. Stay with us. We'll give you news you need to start your day.

大家好，我是NPR音乐的罗宾·希尔顿，为所有喜爱Tiny Desk的朋友带来重磅消息。我们正在赠送前往华盛顿亲临Tiny Desk音乐会的旅行机会，包含酒店和机票。免费参与详情请访问npr.org/tinydeskgiveaway。无需购买或捐款，参与者需年满18岁。

Hey. It's Robin Hilton from NPR Music with some big news for everyone who loves the Tiny Desk. We're giving away a trip to DC to see a Tiny Desk concert in person, hotel and flights included. Learn more and enter for free at NPR dot org slash Tiny Desk Giveaway. No purchase or donation required for entry must be 18 years or older to enter.

报名页面和官方规则链接详见npr.org/tinydeskgiveaway。

Links to the entry page and official rules can be found at npr.org/tinydeskgiveaway.

在Radiolab，我们最热衷的就是钻研科学话题——神经科学、化学等等。

At Radiolab, we love nothing more than nerding out about science, neuroscience, chemistry.

但我们也喜欢探讨其他类型的故事。关于警务或政治的故事。乡村音乐。冰球。昆虫的性行为。

But but we do also like to get into other kinds of stories. Stories about policing or Politics. Country music. Hockey. Sex of bugs.

无论我们探讨的是科学还是非科学领域，我们都秉持严谨的好奇心为您寻找答案。

Regardless of whether we're looking at science or not science, we bring a rigorous curiosity to get you the answers.

并希望能让您以全新的视角看待世界。

And hopefully, make you see the world anew.

《电台实验室》，带您探索认知边缘的冒险之旅。

Radio Lab, adventures on the edge of what we think we know.

在您收听播客的任何平台均可订阅。

Wherever you get your podcasts.

我是埃里克·格拉斯。在《美国生活》节目中，我们钟爱出人意料的故事。比如，当您发现一个新爱好时突然意识到——

This is Eric Glass. On This American Life, we like stories that surprise you. For instance, imagine finding a new hobby and realizing

若想按照大师们的方式正确实践这个爱好，您很可能需要游走法律边缘获取所需材料。甚至可能触犯法律。没错，是违反国际法的那种。

To do this hobby right according to the ways of the masters, there's a pretty good chance that you're gonna have to bend the law to get the materials that you need. If not break it. Yeah. To break international laws.

您生活中的精彩故事，尽在《美国生活》。

Your life stories, really good ones, This American Life.

卫生与公众服务部长小罗伯特·肯尼迪将在今日参议院听证会上作证，此前美国疾病控制与预防中心经历了动荡的一周。

Health and human services secretary Robert f Kennedy junior will be testifying in the senate today after a week of upheaval at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

上周，肯尼迪施压新任CDC主任苏珊·梅诺里斯辞职。当她拒绝后，白宫直接解雇了她。随后三名CDC高层官员以辞职表示抗议。

Last week, Kennedy pressured the brand new CDC director Susan Menoris to resign. And when she refused, the White House fired her. Then three top CDC officials resigned in protest.

NPR记者塞莱娜·西蒙斯·达芬将为我们解析今日听证会的看点。塞莱娜，严格来说这次听证会并非针对CDC领导层更迭对吧？

NPR's Selena Simmons Duffin is here to tell us what to expect at the hearing today. So, Selena, technically, this hearing is not about the turnover of leadership of the CDC.

没错。这是参议院财政委员会上周宣布的听证会，目的是审议总统2026年的医疗保健议程。

Right. This is a senate finance committee hearing announced last week to go over the president's 2026 health care agenda.

好的，这是明面上的议题。但你觉得参议员们可能会向肯尼迪部长提出哪些问题？

Okay. So that's the stated topic. But, what do you think senators might ask secretary Kennedy about?

是的。我预计这会和近年来的许多听证会类似，根据提问参议员的党派不同形成分裂画面。民主党人提问时，我认为他们会就上周CDC事件和疫苗政策向肯尼迪发难。肯尼迪用自己挑选的、有反疫苗活动历史的人选替换了关键的疫苗咨询委员会成员，这些人将在本月晚些时候对多种疫苗建议进行重大调整。

Yeah. I'm expecting it's gonna be like a lot of hearings in recent years where there's kind of a split screen depending on the party of the senator doing the questioning. When Democrats are asking the questions, I think they're gonna hammer Kennedy about what happened last week at CDC and about vaccine policy. Kennedy has replaced a key vaccine advisory panel with his own handpicked roster of people who have a history of anti vaccine activism. They are set to shake up recommendations on a variety of vaccines later this month.

过去几天里，多名民主党议员、多个公共卫生团体以及逾千名现任和前任HHS员工都呼吁肯尼迪辞职。鉴于CDC的混乱局面，一些民主党州正尝试在不依赖CDC的情况下独立运作公共卫生事务。昨天，加利福尼亚、华盛顿和俄勒冈州成立了西海岸健康联盟来协调各自的健康指南和疫苗建议。

Several Democratic lawmakers, a variety of public health groups, and more than a thousand current and former HHS employees have all called on Kennedy to resign in the last few days. And some Democratic states are now making moves to try and run public health without relying on CDC given all of the chaos there. Yesterday, California, Washington, and Oregon launched the West Coast Health Alliance to coordinate their own health guidance and vaccine recommendations.

明白了，这是你预期的民主党方面动向。那共和党方面呢？

Okay. So that's what you expect to hear from Democrats. What about Republicans?

共和党正朝相反方向推进。佛罗里达州昨天宣布计划取消所有儿童和成人的疫苗强制接种。我认为共和党参议员会重点讨论肯尼迪的'让美国再次健康'议程——他一直在全国巡回与州长们签署涉及食品优先事项的州法律，比如限制食用色素和超加工食品。可能还会有共和党人询问生物医学研究经费大幅削减的问题。

Republicans are moving in the opposite direction. Florida announced plans to end all vaccine mandates for children and adults yesterday. I think Republican senators will talk a lot about Kennedy's make America healthy again agenda. He's been traveling all around the country with governors who are signing state laws related to some of his food related priorities, like limiting food dyes and ultra processed foods. There may be Republicans asking about the drastic cuts in biomedical research funding.

特别值得一提的是，很多人都会好奇路易斯安那州的共和党参议员比尔·卡西迪在这次听证会上会说些什么。

I think a lot of people are really gonna be wondering what Republican senator Bill Cassidy of Louisiana is gonna say in this hearing in particular.

哦？比尔·卡西迪？为什么是他？有什么特别原因吗？

Oh, Bill Cassidy. Why him? Why is that?

卡西迪是医生出身，他担任监督HHS的卫生委员会主席，并且坚定支持疫苗接种。肯尼迪当初承诺不更换CDC疫苗咨询委员会才获得他的支持票，但显然肯尼迪违背了承诺——他解雇了该委员会所有成员并进行了替换。

Well, Cassidy is a physician. He chairs the health committee, which oversees HHS, and he believes strongly in vaccines. Kennedy won Cassidy's vote by promising he wouldn't change that CDC vaccine advisory panel. Obviously, Kennedy broke that promise. He fired everyone on that committee and replaced them.

所以我特别关注卡西迪是否会就肯尼迪在疫苗政策方面推行的一系列激进改革提出质询。

So I'll be watching to see whether Cassidy is gonna call Kennedy out for all of the aggressive changes he's been making when it comes to vaccine policy.

你期待从肯尼迪那里听到什么？

What do you expect to hear from Kennedy?

嗯，你知道，在过去一周的采访中，他似乎对CDC的动荡并不在意。他上周末在《华尔街日报》发表了一篇专栏文章，为自己的行为辩护。在文章中，他将疫情初期COVID-19高死亡率的责任完全归咎于CDC。尽管我认为可以说，政治因素和对新兴病毒信息的不完整了解也应承担相当一部分责任。我知道他想谈论的是他的MAHA努力以及他所谓的慢性病流行。

Well, you know, in interviews over the last week, he seemed kind of unbothered by the upheaval at CDC. He wrote an op ed in the Wall Street Journal over the weekend defending his actions. And in the piece, he places the blame for the high COVID nineteen deaths in those early years of the pandemic squarely on CDC. Even though I think you could argue that politics and incomplete information about an emerging virus deserve a fair share of the blame. I know what he wants to talk about are his MAHA efforts and what he calls the chronic disease epidemic.

所以我认为他会尽可能地把重点放在这上面。

So I think he's gonna try to keep that the focus as much as possible.

好的。这是NPR的Selena Simmons的报道，非常感谢。

Alright. That's NPR's Selena Simmons stuff, and thanks a lot.

谢谢。

Thank you.

特朗普总统正试图加强对美联储的控制。

President Trump is trying to exert more control over the Federal Reserve.

这一努力的考验将在今天上午到来，参议院委员会将就特朗普提名填补美联储理事会空缺席位的候选人举行听证会。特朗普还希望通过撤换美联储理事丽莎·库克来填补第二个席位。这一举动正在法庭上受到挑战。美联储可能的人事变动被视为对央行独立性的严重威胁。

One test of that effort will come this morning when a senate committee holds a hearing on Trump's nominee to fill a vacant seat on the Fed's governing board. Trump is also hoping to fill a second seat by getting rid of Fed governor Lisa Cook. That move is being challenged in court. The potential shakeup at the Fed is seen as a serious threat to the central bank's independence.

NPR首席经济记者Scott Horsey现在和我们一起，为我们详细讲解。早上好，Scott。

NPR chief economics correspondent Scott Horsey is with us now to tell us more about this. Good morning, Scott.

早上好。

Good morning.

Scott，这其中的利害关系是什么？这主要是特朗普希望降低利率吗？

Scott, what are the stakes here? Is this mainly about Trump wanting lower interest rates?

利率无疑是其中的一部分原因，但更广泛地说，这关乎权力以及谁能掌控美联储的决策权。特朗普毫不掩饰他希望降低借贷成本的意图，而政策制定者几周后开会时，他很可能会如愿以偿。这是因为就业市场显现疲软迹象，降低利率或许能稍作缓冲。但特朗普想要更多——他想在央行安插更多亲信。

Interest rates are certainly part of the story, but more broadly, this is about power and who gets to control decision making at the Federal Reserve. Trump has made no secret of the fact he wants lower borrowing cost, and he's likely to get that wish when policymakers meet in a couple of weeks. That's because the job market is showing signs of softening and lower interest rates might help to cushion that a little bit. But Trump wants more. He wants to install more of his own people at the central bank.

他已提名白宫经济顾问斯蒂芬·迈伦填补美联储理事会的一个空缺。若成功迫使美联储理事丽莎·库克让位，他将有机会再安排一名盟友进入理事会。这意味着七名美联储理事中将有四位是特朗普任命的人选。总统上周告诉记者，他对此充满期待

He's nominated a White House economic adviser, Stephen Myron, to fill one vacancy on the Fed's board. And if he's successful in pushing Fed governor Lisa Cook aside, he'll get a chance to put another ally on the board. That would mean four out of seven Fed governors would be Trump appointees. And the president told reporters last week he's looking forward

很快我们就会占据多数席位，那将非常棒。一旦我们占多数，房地产市场就会活跃起来，前景大好。现在人们的房贷利率实在太高了。

to that. We'll have a majority very shortly, so that'll be great. Once we have a majority, housing is gonna swing and it's gonna be great. People are paying too high an interest rate.

现在有两点需要注意：其一，美联储并不直接控制抵押贷款利率，这些是由债券市场决定的。如果投资者认为特朗普主导的美联储可能放任通胀失控，此举反而可能适得其反。其二，国会设立美联储的初衷就是使其免受白宫此类政治压力的干扰。

Now two caveats. One, the Fed does not directly control mortgage rates. Those are set in the bond market. So this move could actually backfire if investors come to think a Trump dominated Fed might let inflation get out of control. And two, congress set up the Fed to be insulated from exactly this kind of political pressure from the White House.

那么斯科特，你认为事态会如何发展？

So, Scott, what's your sense of how this is gonna play out?

当前斗争在两条战线展开：一是法庭战线，丽莎·库克已提起诉讼阻止总统将她逐出美联储理事会。特朗普及其盟友指控库克涉及抵押贷款欺诈，但库克否认并称这只是排挤她的借口。在法院审理期间，参议院也有机会介入——我们将特别关注是否有共和党参议员站出来维护美联储独立性。

Right now, the fight's being waged on two fronts. One's in the courts where Lisa Cook has filed a lawsuit to prevent the president from firing her from the Fed board. Trump and his allies have accused Cook of mortgage fraud, but Cook denies that and says that's just a pretext to muscle her off the board. While that's being sorted out in the courts, the senate has a chance to weigh in. We will hear in particular if any senate Republicans stand up for Fed independence.

他们过去确实这么做过，这次是否愿意挑战总统还有待观察。

They have done so in the past. We will see if they're willing to challenge the president this time.

今天的提名确认听证会上会讨论美联储独立性问题吗？

Is Fed independence likely to come up at today's confirmation hearing?

会的。至少委员会中的民主党人肯定会提出大量相关问题。特朗普提名的斯蒂芬·迈伦去年与人合著论文，主张总统应拥有更多对美联储理事会的控制权。不过他也建议禁止人员从白宫调任至美联储——当然这条目前并未生效。多数发达经济体都认为让央行免受政客干预是明智之举。

Yeah. I'm sure we'll hear a lot of questions at least from Democrats on the committee. Trump's nominee, Stephen Myron, coauthored a paper last year in which he argued the president should have more control over the Fed's board of governors. Now he also suggested a ban on people moving from the White House to the Fed, although, obviously, that is not in effect right now. Most other advanced economies have decided it's a good idea to insulate their central banks from meddling by politicians.

美联储主席杰罗姆·鲍威尔表示，这恰恰有助于做出更优质的长期决策。

Fed chairman Jerome Powell says it just makes for better long term decision making.

倘若你们不具备这一机制，

If you were not to have that,

显然会存在巨大诱惑——例如利用利率来干预选举。而这正是我们竭力避免的行为。

there would be a great temptation, of course, to use interest rates to affect elections, for example. And that's something that we don't wanna do.

鲍威尔作为美联储主席的任期将于明年五月届满。届时特朗普将有机会提名新主席。不过鲍威尔可以继续以美联储理事身份留任至2028年。迄今为止，这位美联储主席尚未表明是否计划任职到那个时间点。

Powell's own term as Fed chairman runs out next May. And at that time, Trump will have the opportunity to name a new chairman. Powell could remain on the board as a Fed governor, however, through 2028. So far, the Fed chairman has not said whether he plans to stick around that long.

这里是NPR的斯科特·霍斯利。斯科特，感谢你的报道。

That is NPR Scott Horsley. Scott, thank you.

不客气。

You're welcome.

周三大学取得重大胜利。

University a big win on Wednesday.

法官裁定特朗普政府非法冻结了该校逾20亿美元的研究经费。政府实施冻结的理由是回应校园反犹主义指控，此举促使哈佛大学提起诉讼。

The judge says the Trump administration unlawfully froze more than $2,000,000,000 in research funding to the school. The administration put the freeze in place in what it says was a response to allegations of antisemitism on campus, which prompted Harvard to sue.

NPR教育记者科里·特纳已详细研读了法官长达84页的裁决书，现在他将为我们深入解析。科里，早上好。

NPR education correspondent Corey Turner has been looking over the judge's 84 page ruling, and it's with us now to tell us more about it. Corey, good morning.

早上好，米歇尔。

Good morning, Michelle.

那么根据法官的裁决，你能告诉我们这次经费冻结是如何违反法律的吗？

So what can you tell us about how the funding freeze according to the judge ran afoul of the law?

是的。艾莉森·巴勒斯法官不仅提出了一个论点，而是多个。首先，她指出哈佛大学被削减资金的研究包括阿尔茨海默症、癌症、卢·格里克氏症（肌萎缩侧索硬化症）、心脏病、自闭症的研究。甚至还有一项研究旨在帮助急诊室医生更好地服务有自杀倾向的退伍军人。法官表示，这些研究与校园内的反犹太主义行为并无明显关联。巴勒斯还表示，冻结资金侵犯了哈佛大学的宪法第一修正案权利，因为特朗普政府在声称此举是为了打击反犹太主义的同时，特朗普总统却在Truth Social上更广泛地谴责哈佛大学是‘自由主义的烂摊子’，并与政府对抗。

Yeah. Judge Alison Burrows offered really not one argument, but several. For starters, she pointed out that the research being defunded at Harvard included studies of Alzheimer's, cancer, Lou Gehrig's disease, heart disease, autism. There's even a study to help emergency room doctors better serve suicidal veterans, none of which, the judge said, had any clear connection to antisemitism on campus. Burroughs also said the freeze violated Harvard's First Amendment rights, and that's because at the same time the Trump administration claimed it was doing this to fight antisemitism, president Trump was excoriating Harvard more broadly on Truth Social for being a, quote, liberal mess and for fighting back against the administration.

因此，法官表示她‘很难得出其他结论，只能认为政府将反犹太主义作为幌子，实施了一场有针对性的、意识形态驱动的攻击’。

So the judge said she found it, quote, difficult to conclude anything other than that the administration used antisemitism as a smokescreen for a targeted, ideologically motivated assault.

科里，这很有意思。哈佛大学曾表示反犹太主义已成为校园问题。法官对此有何看法？

You know, Corey, it's interesting. Harvard has said that antisemitism had become a problem on campus. Does the judge speak to that?

是的。在裁决中，巴勒斯法官对哈佛大学颇为严厉，称其‘近年来饱受反犹太主义困扰，本可以也应该更好地处理这一问题’。但她表示，在特朗普政府冻结资金时，哈佛已经在采取措施解决这一问题。事实上，她指出这是政府违反联邦法律的另一种方式——政府指控哈佛违反了1964年《民权法案》第六章，这部里程碑法律保护美国人免受基于种族、肤色和国籍的歧视。

Yeah. In a ruling, judge Burroughs was kinda hard on Harvard saying, quote, it had been plagued by antis Semitism in recent years and could and should have done a better job of dealing with the issue. But she said Harvard was already taking steps to do just that when the Trump administration froze its funding. In fact, this was actually another way the administration, she said, had run afoul of federal law. It had accused Harvard of violating title six of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the landmark law that protects Americans from discrimination based on race, color, and national origin.

但第六章要求政府遵循非常明确的逐步流程以使学校合规。法官表示，直接实施大规模资金冻结基本上跳过了这些步骤。那么现在情况如何？白宫发言人莉兹·休斯顿称‘我们将立即对这一荒谬裁决提出上诉，并坚信最终会胜诉’。与此同时，哈佛校长艾伦·加伯的声明则明显克制，承诺‘继续评估裁决影响，关注后续法律进展，并留意形势变化’。

But title six requires a very clear step by step process for the government to follow to bring a school into compliance. And the judge said jumping straight to this huge funding freeze essentially skipped most of those steps. So what happens now? Well, White House spokesperson Liz Houston said, quote, we will immediately move to appeal this egregious decision, and we're confident we will ultimately prevail. Meanwhile, Harvard president Alan Garber's statement was notably subdued, pledging to, quote, continue to assess the implications of the opinion, monitor further legal developments, and be mindful of the changing landscape.

米歇尔，我认为这暗示了哈佛与白宫在此事上多线交锋的同时，也在幕后商讨潜在的和解协议——类似哥伦比亚大学和布朗大学已签署的协议。虽然难以预测这一裁决的最终影响，但显然它增强了哈佛的谈判地位。

And I think, Michelle, that's a nod to the fact that Harvard and the White House have been battling on multiple fronts here while also talking behind the scenes about a potential settlement agreement like the ones already signed by Columbia and Brown University. It's hard to know what effect this ruling is ultimately gonna have, but I think it's pretty clear it strengthens Harvard's bargaining position.

以上是NPR教育记者科里·特纳的报道。科里，谢谢你。

That is NPR education correspondent, Corey Turner. Corey, thank you.

不客气，米歇尔。

You're welcome, Michelle.

这里是9月4日周四的《Up First》节目，我是米歇尔·马丁。

And that's up first for Thursday, September 4. I'm Michelle Martin.

亚当·A·马丁内斯，或许《Consider This》会是你的下一档节目。它来自NPR。《Up First》为您带来当日三大要闻，而我们的《Consider This》团队则采用不同的视角。

Adam A. Martinez, Consider This could be your next listen. It's from NPR. We here at Up First give you the three big stories of the day. Our Consider This colleagues take a different approach.

他们深入剖析一则新闻故事及其对您的意义，用时不到十五分钟。立即通过NPR应用或您获取播客的任何平台收听。

They dive into a single news story and what it means to you in less than fifteen minutes. Listen now on the NPR app or wherever you get those podcasts.

本期《Up First》节目由黛安·韦伯、拉斐尔·南姆、劳伦·麦高希、丽莎·汤普森和埃利斯·沃尔夫利编辑制作。制作团队包括泽德·布奇、尼娅·杜马斯和克里斯托弗·托马斯。工程支持由尼莎·海恩斯提供，技术总监是卡莉·斯特兰奇。期待明天再次与您相会。

Today's episode of Up First was edited by Diane Weber, Rafael Nam, Lauren McGaughey, Lisa Thompson, and Ellis Wolffley. It was produced by Zed Butch, Nia Dumas, and Christopher Thomas. We get engineering support from Nisha Hynes, and our technical director is Carly Strange. We hope you'll join us again tomorrow.

想听无广告插播的播客吗？亚马逊Prime会员可通过Amazon Music收听无赞助商内容的《Up First》，您也可以支持NPR的重要新闻报道并获取《Up First Plus》服务，请访问plus.npr.org。网址是plus.npr.org。

Wanna hear this podcast without sponsor breaks? Amazon Prime members can listen to Up First sponsor free through Amazon Music, or you can also support NPR's Vital Journalism and get Up First Plus at plus.npr.org. That's plus.npr.org.

加入Plus服务的优势：您可以无广告收听超过25档NPR播客。劣势：您将减少点击播客播放器快进键的机会。优势：您能支持自己关心的事业。劣势：您喜欢挑战，觉得这样太过轻松。何不加入NPR Plus，体验事物的积极面呢？

On the plus side, you get sponsor free listening to over 25 NPR podcasts. On the minus side, you get fewer chances to tap fast forward on your podcast player. On the plus side, you get to support something you care about. On the minus side, you like challenges and think this makes it too easy. So why don't you join us on the plus side of things with NPR Plus?

了解更多信息并注册请访问+.npr.org。

Learn more and sign up at +.npr.org.

在NPR的《Throughline》播客中，移民执法如今或许更为显见，但这一局面并非始于特朗普总统的第二次就职，甚至第一次就职时也未成形。系列节目《Throughline》讲述移民议题如何政治化并成为摇钱树的故事。通过NPR应用或您获取播客的平台收听《Throughline》。

On the Throughline Podcast from NPR, immigration enforcement might be more visible now, but this moment didn't begin with president Trump's second inauguration or even his first. A series from ThruLine about how immigration became political and a cash cow. Listen to ThruLine in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.