2025年支付领域的下一步是什么？

我认为，我们在去年年底所称的自动驾驶商业，现在已经有术语了。

I think what we called at the end of last year self driving commerce, there's there's now a term for it.

对吧？

Right?

它叫代理商业。

It's, agentic commerce.

如果你想想你一生中所有的购物行为，背后都有一系列的决策。

And if you think of all the purchasing you do in your life, there's a series of decisions behind them.

因此，要实现所谓的自动驾驶商业或代理商业，就是有人了解你和你的偏好，经常在后台默默为你做出这些决策。

So to go to an, kind of self driving commerce or agentic commerce, it is someone who understands you and your preferences and making those decisions for you often, behind the scenes and in the background.

欢迎收听Visa焦点节目的最新一期，我们的播客探讨支付、商业和资金流动领域的最新洞察与创新。

Welcome to the latest episode of Visa Spotlights, our podcast which explores the latest insights and innovations taking place in payments, commerce, and money movement.

今天，我很高兴欢迎我们的嘉宾安德鲁·托里，他担任中欧、东欧、中东和非洲86个独特多元市场的区域总裁。

Today, I'm delighted to welcome our guest, Andrew Torrey, who is regional president for the 86 unique and diverse markets across Central And Eastern Europe, Middle East, and Africa.

安德鲁，欢迎你，感谢你今天加入我们。

Andrew, welcome and thank you for joining us today.

谢谢，丹。

Thank you, Dan.

很高兴能在这里与你交流。

It's great to be here with you.

随着又一个令人兴奋的年份开启，我们不禁展望未来十二个月。

As we begin another exciting year, we can't help but look forward over the next twelve months.

数字支付将继续改变我们购物、销售以及在该地区转移资金的方式。

Digital payments are set to continue transforming how we buy, how we sell and how we move money across the region.

每一次刷卡、每一次轻触、每一次点击，创新都在推动更快的速度、更高的效率和更强的安全性。

Innovation is driving greater speed, efficiency and security with every swipe, with every tap and every click that we make.

在本集中，我们将探讨一些将塑造2025年数字支付的关键趋势。

In this episode, we're going be looking at some of the key trends that are set to shape digital payments in 2025.

我们将审视人工智能带来的变革性影响。

We'll look at the transformative impacts of AI.

我们将关注向安全且无缝交易的转变，包括生物识别认证，同时也会探讨一些新兴领域，如实时支付和嵌入式金融。

We'll look at the shift towards secure and seamless transactions, including with biometric authentication, and also look at some of the emerging new areas such as real time payments and embedded finance.

安德鲁，我们开始之前，不妨先花点时间回顾一下过去十二个月。

Andrew, as we start, before we look forward, perhaps we could just spend a bit of time, looking back over the last twelve months.

你在2024年观察到了哪些变化？这些变化为我们今年展望未来提供了怎样的起点？

What are some of the sort of shifts that you've seen, in 2024 and the sort of the departure point as we look forward at the start of this year?

是的。

Yeah.

每年年初回顾过去、进行反思总是很有帮助的。

It's, it's it's always helpful as you start a new year to to look back and reflect.

我认为2024年是商业乃至更广泛数字支付领域又一个重要的年份，它延续并深化了疫情期间出现的诸多趋势和行为转变。

And I think 2024 was another momentous year for commerce and, certainly digital payments more broadly, and it it kind of capitalizes and traces a number of trends that had really emerged, you know, during the the pandemic and some of the behavior shifts, during COVID.

如果你回望2019年，仅从一些简单的数据来看，就能很好地说明支付领域发生的变化：当时，Visa卡交易总量中仍有66%是现金交易。

So if you just look back to 2019, and if you just think about just simple stats, which I think really talk a lot about what's happened in payments, you know, 2019, 66% of all transactions were all volume on Visa cards was actually cash.

但到2023年底，这一比例已经开始逆转。

And by the end of 2023, that had, that had started to invert.

事实上，现金交易占比已降至52%。

And in fact, cash was only 52%.

所以你终于迎来了一年，电子支付成为主导并占据多数。

So you finally had a year where electronic payments was dominant, was in the majority.

从2023年到2024年，仅在这一年里，电子支付的份额又增加了五个百分点。

And then from 2023 to 2024, in that one year, another five percentage point gain in share for electronic payments.

这确实是因为许多事情正在发生。

And that that really is, based on the fact a number of things were happening.

首先，我们看到消费者行为发生了转变，而且这种趋势仍在持续。

One, we saw consumer behavior shift, certainly, and that's continued.

你看到越来越多的人进入了正规金融体系。

You've seen more folks coming into the formal financial ecosystem.

现在我们拥有了更多的凭证，或者像我们常说的，更多的卡片。

We've got a lot more credentials out there now or cards, as we like to say.

3.7亿人口正在快速增长。

So 370,000,000 growing dynamic population.

因此，使用我们产品的用户更多了，可供他们选择的商家或卖家也更多了。

So more people using our products, more merchants, that are available to them or sellers.

因此，在过去三四年里，这一数字几乎增长了三倍。

So that's almost tripled in the last, three or four years as well.

而且，电子商务和面对面交易都更多了。

And and just, you know, more e com, more face to face.

所以购买体验更好了。

So just just better buying.

这并不是说现金停滞不前。

And it's not that cash is standing still.

事实上，在此期间，现金使用量增长了4%。

In fact, cash has grown by 4% during that period.

因此，如果你回顾过去几年，你会看到一种巨大而不可阻挡的快速转变，正朝着数字支付和电子商务发展。

So you see this big inexorable shift, very quick shift, if you look at the last few years, towards digital payments and commerce.

太棒了。

Fantastic.

你确实概述了过去几年我们所看到的向数字支付快速加速和转型的趋势。

So you've really outlined that rapid sort of acceleration and transformation towards digital payments that we've seen over the last few years.

我认为每一年都带来了自己的一系列趋势，我们看到某些领域确实得到了极大扩展。

And I think each year has brought its own set of trends, and, we've seen certain areas sort of really expand.

展望2025年剩余的时间，您认为有哪些关键领域是我们都应该密切关注的？

When you look forward to the remainder of 2025, what are some of the key areas that you're really looking forward to, we think we should all be watching out for?

当然。

Absolutely.

我想，有几个方面浮现在脑海中。

You know, I think, a number come to mind.

首先，我们谈论商业和支付时，不可能不提到人工智能，尽管它已经存在一段时间了。

You know, first, we we couldn't be talking about commerce and payments and not talk about artificial intelligence, although it's been around for a while.

因此，我们确实看到人工智能在2025年以全新和不同的方式被应用。

So we certainly see artificial intelligence being used in new and different ways, particularly, in 2025.

第二个方面是，正如我们讨论过的消费者行为变化，其中很大一部分是更多地进行数字化和虚拟化的购物与消费。

Second one is, as we've talked about some of those changes in consumer behavior, a lot of that is more shopping and spending digitally and virtually.

因此，身份验证和识别——在虚拟和数字世界中确认你是丹·巴克斯特——正变得越来越复杂，也越来越重要。

So authentication and identification, so knowing who you are, Dan Baxter, when you're shopping in the virtual and digital world is increasingly complex and increasingly important.

第三点是我们看到了支付系统现代化的转变。

Third thing is we've seen a shift in modernization of payment systems.

因此，实时支付持续增长，这也是我们正在关注和支持的领域。

So real time payments continues to grow, and that's something we're we're looking at and supporting as well.

无论是实时支付还是其他不同的网络，都是点对点支付。

Part of whether it's RTP or other different networks, a to a payment.

因此，账户对账户的支付非常重要。

So account to account based payments, really important.

这个领域也有很多其他发展。

Lots of things happening in that space as well.

显然，我们还需要继续思考嵌入式金融及其作用，比如先买后付等。

Obviously, we have to continue to, think about embedded finance, and the role embedded finance plays, you know, buy now, pay later, etcetera.

但这一领域仍在持续发生重大转变。

But there's continues to be a big shift there.

这个领域正在发生很多变化。

Lots happening in that space.

当然，还有全球化、创作者经济，以及为支持更快、更高效的跨境支付而做出的诸多努力。

And, of course, globalization, creator economy, lots of moves to be able to support faster, more efficient cross border payments.

所以这些是我们正在思考的一些主要趋势。

So those are some of the big trends that we're thinking about.

太棒了。

Fantastic.

我们刚才涵盖了相当广泛的领域。

So it's a pretty diverse area that we covered.

因此，也许我们可以深入探讨一下。

And so perhaps we could go a bit deeper into it.

当然可以。

Absolutely.

正如你所说，生成式人工智能可能是最明显的切入点。

As you said, generative AI is probably the most obvious place to start.

在过去十二个月里，人工智能似乎真正融入了我们生活、工作和娱乐的方方面面。

It seems like the last twelve months, AI has really sort of become the mainstream in all aspects of how we live and work and play.

我认为，比以往任何时候都有更多人开始接受人工智能。

I think more people are embracing AI than ever before.

你认为人工智能会对本地区乃至全球的支付产生怎样的转变和影响？

What shift do you think AI and what impact do you think it'll have on, payments across the region and perhaps globally?

是的。

Yeah.

有趣的是，你知道，我们和丹都非常清楚这一点。

The the the interesting thing is, you know, we and you know Dan as well as I do.

维萨公司早已在使用人工智能，尽管是以各种不同的方式。

Visa's been using AI, although in in different ways and shapes before.

以前这被称为机器学习。

Used to be called machine learning.

你知道，我们已经使用人工智能三十年了。

You know, AI, we've been using for thirty years.

我们一直在对其进行投资。

We've been investing it.

这确实是保护生态系统的一个非常重要且关键的来源。

It's it's and it it's a really, really important source of, protecting the ecosystem.

我们用它来识别行为。

And we've used it to identify, behaviors.

对吧？

Right?

无论是从欺诈和风险的角度来看，任何看似异常的行为，你都能在海量数据中找到那根针，从而确保保护消费者及其支付安全。

So whether from a fraud and risk perspective, something that seems abnormal, you can kind of find that needle in the haystack, and then you can make sure that you can protect consumers, and their payments.

这是其中一个领域，我们仍在持续投入。

So that's one area, and we continue to work on that.

我们还以多种其他方式利用它，帮助客户提供更优质、更灵活且以消费者为中心的解决方案。

We've also used it in many other ways to help, our clients, to help them really provide better, more flexible, but also more consumer centric solutions.

通过了解他们的某些行为和偏好。

So just by knowing some of their behaviors and some of their preferences.

因此，我们利用它与客户合作，例如，如果你想让丹·巴克斯特开心，下一步最佳行动是什么？

So we've used it to work with them to be able to for example, what's the next best action if you want to make Dan Baxter happy?

你会给他提供什么？

What would you what would you offer him?

他应该购买什么？或者你会给他什么建议？你如何激励他？

What's a what's a purchase he should make, or what's a a potential recommendation you make with him, and how can you incent him?

所以这方面已经有很多应用了。

So there's been a lot of that at play.

我认为，生成式人工智能正在发生一些重大变化。

I think, you know, there's some big shifts with generative AI.

你知道，如果你仔细想想，它还算是比较新的技术。

And, you know, it's, you know, if you think about it, it's relatively new.

但仅今年一年，我们就已经实现了多模态。

But this year alone, we've gone multimodal.

消费者正在使用它，并且在尝试它。

So consumers are using it and they're playing with it.

我认为，我们去年年底称之为自动驾驶商业的东西，现在已经有术语了。

I think what we called at the end of last year self driving commerce, there's there's now a term for it.

对吧？

Right?

这是代理式商业。

It's, agentic commerce.

这与我们目前使用和体验的大语言模型完全不同，后者是我们提出问题，它一般性地回答。

And that really is different than the large language models where we're using and playing with where we're asking them something and it's answering something generally.

代理式商业基于决策。

Agentic commerce is based on making decisions.

如果你想想你一生中所有的购物行为，背后都有一系列决策。

And if you think of all the purchasing you do in your life, there's a series of decisions behind them.

因此，要实现所谓的自动驾驶商业或代理式商业，就是由一个了解你和你偏好的系统，在后台默默替你做出这些决策。

So to go to an, kind of self driving commerce or agentic commerce, it is someone who understands you and your preferences, and making those decisions for you often, behind the scenes in in the background.

所以，去年我一直在跟我的妻子和孩子开玩笑，说那可能是我最后一次亲自为他们挑选圣诞礼物了。

So, you know, I've been joking, with my with my own wife and kids about this last year may have been the last year that I explicitly made decisions about Christmas presents for them.

是啊。

Yeah.

他们也笑了，但带着微笑，因为他们觉得它可能会比我做得更好。

They laughed too, but with a smile because they think it'll probably do it better than I will.

你可以看到，通过这种方式，我的商业代理能够了解我的女儿们，知道她们的喜好、朋友以及她们想要什么，并能为她们完成购买。

And you could see that there's the ability, with that to be able to have my, commerce agent know my daughters, know their preferences, know their friends, know what they want, and be able to to make that purchase for them.

但我认为这实际上超越了仅仅这一点。

But I think it goes beyond just that actually.

这周我一直在旅行。

And, you know, this week, was traveling.

这周我在多哈。

I was in Doha this week.

如果你想想那些关键但平凡的商业事务，比如我的购物清单。

And if you just think about the more mundane aspects of commerce that are critical, so my shopping list.

你知道，如果它知道我这周离开了三天，因为它会。

You know, had it known that, you know, I was gone for three days this week, because it would.

它会知道我的日程安排。

It would know what my schedule is.

它会根据我们家庭所处的阶段和我们的需求来定制购物体验。

It would tailor the shopping to where we are in my family and what our needs are.

所以我认为商业领域将发生巨大的变化。

So I think there's gonna be a big, big change in commerce.

因此，我们正在全力以赴做好准备，确保当这些商业代理出现时，我们能轻松地集成支付信息，让整个过程变得极其便捷。

So and we're working really hard to get ready for it to make sure it's very easy when these commerce agents come that, we we work our payment credentials in so to be able to make it super easy.

同时，基于我们始终获得消费者授权的数据，我们可以提供一系列偏好设置，让这些代理能更聪明、更高效地为我们服务。

But also given the data we have always with consumer, consent to be able to provide some type of sets of preferences so these agents work smarter and better on our behalf.

因此，我们对下一阶段的发展感到非常兴奋。

So we're pretty excited about what that next phase brings.

很好。

Great.

你之前提到，过去十二个月数字支付有了显著增长，显然，人工智能将成为推动商业进一步转型的动力和使能器。

So you spoke earlier around how digital payments has sort of grown over the last twelve months, clearly AI is gonna be a a fuel and enabler for commerce to further transform moving forward.

是的。

Yeah.

随着支付方式的发展，我们明显看到不良行为者的手段日益复杂，欺诈和身份盗窃行为不断增加，这显然是整个行业高度关注和重点防范的问题。

And one of the other areas that we've obviously seen grow as payments has grown is the sophistication of bad actors and the efforts in terms of fraud and identity theft, which is obviously a huge watch out and a huge focus for the industry.

关于未来数字身份认证的发展，以及行业需要采取哪些措施才能真正领先于这些威胁，你有什么看法？

What are some of your thoughts in terms of that point around digital authentication moving forward and what industry needs to do to really stay ahead of those threats?

没错。

Exactly.

没错。

Exactly.

正如我提到的，世界正变得越来越复杂。

You know, as I mentioned, the world's getting more complex.

越来越多的交易发生在电子商务和虚拟世界中。

More and more transactions are happening, e commerce and in the virtual world.

当您在销售点进行交易时，确认您的身份要容易得多。

And ultimately, it was much easier to know you are who you are when you're at the point of sale.

对吧？

Right?

我们在保护卡片和您的凭证方面非常出色。

We're very good at securing the card and the credential to you.

它会被交付到您手中。

It gets delivered to you.

但在虚拟世界中，很多地方会变得薄弱或更加复杂。

But a lot of that breaks down or becomes more complex in a virtual world.

因此，我们看到身份验证越来越依赖于我们今天都熟悉的生物识别技术，对吧？

So, we really see identity being much more tied to biometrics that we're all used to today, right?

现在很难找到一个您交谈的人，尤其是我们这一代或更年轻的人，他们没有智能手机，或者不使用智能手机的生物识别功能来解锁手机、打开应用并获取访问权限。

It's hard to find anyone that you talk to now, certainly, you know, of our generation or younger that does not have a smartphone and is not using the biometrics capabilities of that smartphone to open your phone, open an app, and gain access.

因此，我们开始看到生物识别解决方案——无论是指纹还是面部识别，这两种在Android和iOS中主流的方式——被用来解决虚拟世界中交易时‘这个人到底是谁’的问题。

So we start to see that biometric solution, whether it's a fingerprint or face, which are kind of the two big ones in Android and iOS, being used to help solve that problem of, you know, who is this person when they're conducting commerce in the virtual world?

而今天，我们通过多种不同的方式来绕过这个问题。

And today, we get around it through a number of different ways.

对吧？

Right?

因此，我们仍然使用加密信息来进行电子商务。

So you've got cryptograms still that we use for e commerce.

你会使用CVV码，输入三位数的代码，以确认你拥有这张卡。

You use things like CVV and putting that three digit code so you know you've got the card.

然后我们使用这些静态的或一次性密码。

And then we use these static, or or one time passwords.

这其中涉及很多复杂性。

And there's there's a lot of complexity.

存在很多摩擦。

There's a lot of friction.

我们知道消费者喜欢生物识别技术。

And we know consumers like biometrics.

因此，我们将利用天然存在的生物识别方式，也就是我们称之为Visa支付密钥的技术，并将其应用于名为Click to Pay的新电子商务解决方案中，使其变得简单而流畅。

So we're gonna be using what's naturally there, which we're calling a Visa payment passkey that we're bringing to bear with a new ecommerce solution called Click to Pay to make it really simple and seamless.

因此，如果你想象一下我们今天所处的位置、未来将到达的地方，我们已经宣布并在卡塔尔与QMB试点了这一技术，因为电子商务已经准备好迎接这种开箱即用的体验。

So if you you imagine where we are today, where where we will be, and we've already announced this and piloted it in Qatar with QMB where, you know, ecommerce is ready for this unboxing moment.

你拿到你的卡片。

You get your card.

它已经适用于电子商务。

It's already fit for ecommerce.

无论你的别名是什么。

It's, whatever your alias is.

在我们这个地区，对我来说，它就是手机号码。

So in our part of the world and to me, it's a mobile number.

你可以输入你的手机号码。

You can put in your mobile number.

它会立即调出你所有的凭证。

It immediately is gonna pull up all of the credentials that you have for me.

它们显然是Visa的凭证。

They'd be Visa credentials, obviously.

发货地址等信息都已设置好，支付流程简单易用。

And, you know, the shipping address and everything's set, it's a simple, very easy payment flow.

然后，那里点一下，付款时再点一下。

And then, so there's a click there, and then there's a click when I pay.

如果我有Visa支付密钥，并且恰好使用iPhone，我只需把脸凑近手机，一、二、完成，非常安全、无缝。

And if I have a Visa payment passkey and I happen to have an iPhone, I'll just put my face in front of the phone, and it's one, two, done, very secure, seamless.

Visa支付密钥不仅有助于电子商务，而且未来通过这种方式，在消费者选择和同意的前提下识别消费者，也将解决许多其他应用场景。

That Visa payment pass game will not only help with ecommerce, but, you know, down the road, just identifying consumers in this way, with their choice and their consent is is going to solve lots of different use cases down the road as well.

因此，这在安全性的基础上进一步提升了便捷性和个性化服务，我们知道消费者越来越需要这些，并能改善整体的商业体验。

So it's sort of building on that element around security, but also bringing in the convenience and personalized agent, which we know that consumers increasingly want and improve the overall commerce experience.

另一个方面，消费者在数字支付体验中显然追求的是速度和支付的即时性。

Another thing, obviously, consumers look for from their digital payments experience is speed and the immediacy which payments can bring.

你刚才提到的一个领域是实时支付。

One area that you just mentioned was around real time payments.

也许你可以详细谈谈实时支付的发展历程，以及为什么你认为今年它将如此关键。

Perhaps you could sort of expand on that and give a bit more of a sense for the sort of the journey that Real Time Payments has been on and why you think it's gonna be so critical this year.

是的。

Yeah.

我们已经在这条路上走了好几年了。

There's you know, we've been we've been on this journey for years.

世界上几乎每个国家都有某种形式的支付系统，无论是电子资金转账、自动清算所还是实时全额结算系统，这些系统通常都是批量处理，而非实时的。

So every almost every country in the world has some form of whether it's EFT or ACH or RTGS, these payment systems, and they tended to be batch and not real time.

现在技术已经具备了实现实时处理的能力。

So, the technology is there to be able to do things in real time.

因此，世界上几乎每个国家要么已经推出了实时支付系统，要么正在建设中，或者至少已经在设计规划中。

So almost every country in the world, has either, launched a real time payment system or is in the process of building one or certainly specking it out.

但我们看到越来越多这样的支付系统涌现出来，它们服务于不同的使用场景。

But we've seen more and more of these payment systems emerge, and they serve different use cases.

很多时候，比如你和我刚吃完晚饭，你付了账单，我只需转给你一些钱，来支付我的那一半。

There's lots of times where, you know, you and I may have just had a dinner, and, you've paid the bill, and I'm just sending you, you know, money to be able to, you know, pay for my half of that.

现实中存在着大量尚未被明确表达的对实时支付的需求，而这些实时支付系统现在正满足着这些需求。

There's a lot of was unarticulated demand in real time that now these real time payment systems, are fulfilling.

它们非常出色，并且已经获得了广泛采用。

And and they're great, and they've gained traction.

但当你思考实时和可互操作的支付系统时，也有一些特点，比如它们通常是不可撤销的。

But there are some things when you think about real time and interoperable payment systems that are also they tend to be irrevocable.

一旦你完成支付，这笔钱就无法收回了。

So once you've made a payment, that payment's gone.

因此，除了你提到的速度和便利性之外，你还必须能够识别交易中是否存在潜在的欺诈行为，以保护消费者。

So you've got to be sure that not only do you have the speed that you mentioned and the convenience, but you also have the ability to be able to see if there's potentially fraud gonna be fraud in that transaction to protect the consumer.

而且，作为人类，我们难免会犯错。

And there's also the you know, we're fallible as humans.

你可能会把钱转错人，或者被欺骗，而这种不可撤销的特性会带来风险。

You may send something to the wrong person or or you may have been tricked, the ability to make that irrevocable.

所以这些系统规模庞大。

So these systems are big.

它们正在不断增长。

They're growing.

它们非常重要。

They're really important.

我们与他们合作并建立伙伴关系。

We work with and partner with them.

因此，我们正在努力确保能够为他们提供一系列新的解决方案，特别是用于应对风险和欺诈。

So we're, working to make sure that we can bring a new series of solutions to them, especially to solve for risk and and fraud, as well.

我们已经讨论过诸如商业以及一些更传统的消费者对商户消费和实时支付中的资金流动等领域。

So we've spoken around sort of areas such as commerce and some of the more traditional sort of consumer to merchant spending and also money movement in real time payments.

另一个领域是企业对企业（A2A）和账户间资金转账与支付。

Another area is around A2A and account to account money transfers and payments.

您能否更详细地谈谈A2A，它意味着什么，未来会是什么样子？

Could you talk a little more around A2A and what that means and what that looks like moving forward?

是的。

Yeah.

A2A就是直接在两个账户之间转移资金。

So A2A is just moving money directly from one account to another.

我认为人们往往认为A2A与这些实时支付（RTP）系统是同义词，而这确实是执行A2A支付的主要支付系统类型之一。

Now, I think people tend to think A to A is synonymous with these RTP systems, and that is certainly a major type of payment system that does A to A payments.

当然，你听说过印度的UPI、巴西的PICS以及其他一些支付系统，这些是八种支付系统。

Certainly, you've heard of UPI, PICS in Brazil, and others, these are eight payment systems.

但还有一些其他系统，并不完全是传统意义上的实时支付系统，但仍然实现了类似功能。

But you've got others out there that are not necessarily, real traditional real time, payment systems, but then still do it.

你还有像移动支付服务商这样的玩家。

You've got you know, mobile money players.

你可以说M-Pesa是一种支付方式。

You you could argue that M Pesa is a, a payments.

它是一种点对点的资金转移方式。

It is an a to a means.

你正在将资金从一个人的账户转移到另一个人的账户。

You're moving, money from one person's account to another.

你知道吗，丹，Visa有自己的点对点支付系统Visa Direct，我们能够通过卡片、账户和钱包进行资金转移，并且我们拥有85亿个终端节点。

Visa, as you know, Dan, has its own eight a payment system with Visa Direct, where we're able to move money across both, cards, accounts, and wallets, and we've got eight eight point five billion endpoints.

我认为，当你审视所有这些不同的网络时，对消费者而言，能够选择使用这些不同的网络是非常好的。

And I think when you look at all of these different networks that are out there, one, it's great for consumers to have choice to be able to use these different networks.

我之前提到的是实时支付网络或这些A到A网络所面临的一些挑战，以及它们所蕴含的机遇，比如如何确保这些交易既快速、便捷，又安全？

And I was alluding to, you know, some of the challenges with RTP networks or some of the same, opportunity areas for these A to A networks, which is, you know, how do you make sure you can make those transactions fast, convenient, but also secure?

因此，我们需要新的欺诈和安全解决方案，以确保当我决定给某人转账时，这笔钱确实能到达正确的人手中。

So there are new fraud and security solutions to make sure that when I decide I'm gonna send someone money, that it really is to that person.

对吧？

Right?

那我怎么才能知道呢？

So how do I know?

而且有很多社交工程手段。

And there's a lot of social engineering.

人工智能正被用来创建更具情境性的钓鱼攻击、欺骗或社交工程，这些手段比以往更难被消费者识破，从而更容易让他们上当受骗。

It's one of the ways that AI has been being used to, to be able to create phishing schemes or spoofing or social engineering that is much much more contextual and therefore, much more harder for consumers to understand they're they're they're being tricked or or defrauded.

因此，我们需要像Visa Protect这样的解决方案，来检测我是否要将资金发送到某个终端。

So having these, what we call Visa Protect as a solution to be able to, spot if I'm going to be sending money to an endpoint.

它实际上是在分析该终端，判断你将资金发送到那里是否合理，从而保护消费者。

It's actually looking basically at that endpoint to say, does it make sense for you to be sending it there so to protect consumers?

然后你想想，错误是可能发生的。

And then you think about just, you know, mistakes can happen.

我们如何解决争议和拒付机制？

How do we solve for dispute and chargeback mechanisms?

人们通常习惯于付款后，如果出错、自己操作失误，或商品/服务未被正确计费时，能够有追索途径。

People are generally used to being able to make a payment and having recourse if something goes wrong, if they make a mistake, if the good or service is not billed.

因此，我们正看到这个领域出现大量关于支付协调、叠加功能的趋势，这些功能类似于传统品牌方案（如Visa）所提供的争议解决路径，并创建统一的解决方案，比如‘钱包支付’，这是我们提供的另一种方案，旨在实现A到A支付的统一性，使其更安全、便捷、可靠。

So, you know, we're starting to see a lot in this space around orchestrating payments, layering things on top, that look like things like, you know, traditional, brand schemes would do like Visa to be able to have dispute resolution paths, and then to create kind of unified approaches like a pay by wallet, which is another solution we have, to create uniformity around how to orchestrate, A to A payments so they're safe, convenient, secure.

非常好。

Very good.

因此，有许多令人兴奋的领域，显然所有这些都在共同推动消费者对数字支付的采用，并提升消费者对支付体验的期望——无论他们以何种方式与不同类型的商业互动，支付都应成为体验的一部分。

So lots of exciting areas, and clearly all of these are together driving that consumer adoption of digital payments and also increasing the consumer expectation that payments will be part of the experience when they're engaging with different types business in different ways.

显然，越来越多的企业正在考虑将金融服务嵌入到其服务、解决方案或产品中的不同环节。

Obviously, more and more businesses are looking at embedding finance into different aspects of services or solutions or, offerings which they have.

我们如何看待嵌入式金融？您如何看待这一趋势在过去几年持续发展？

How are we thinking about embedded finance and how are you seeing that trend continuing to emerge that we've also been looking at for the last couple of years?

当然。

Absolutely.

有趣的是，从定义的角度来看，因为人们对嵌入式金融有不同的理解。

The interesting thing is, just from a definitional perspective, because I think people have different notions of what embedded finance is.

历史上，我会说嵌入式金融，我们大多数人可能都经历过，比如我在买一件白色家电。

And historically, I would say embedded finance, most of us have, you know, I'm buying a white good.

比如冰箱、洗衣机烘干机，这些大额消费，商家可能会提供分期付款，帮助我融资。

So, a refrigerator, a washer dryer, one of these big purchases, and someone would, at the the merchant, maybe offer me an installment to be able to help finance that.

这种模式已经存在很多代了。

That's been around for many generations.

买汽车时也是同样的情况。

The same thing actually when you're buying a car.

对吧？

Right?

无论是租赁还是贷款。

So either leasing or lending.

这实际上是金融功能嵌入在购买或采购过程的一部分。

And that really is the finances embedded in part of that purchase or procurement process.

现在，你看到金融服务不再仅仅由你的金融机构直接提供，而是由软件、应用程序或其他提供商提供，他们为你提供服务，并基于对你的某种了解，也能提供这些其他服务。

And now, you know, you're seeing, more broadly financial services are not necessarily being offered directly by your financial institution but by software, an app or another provider that is providing you a service and they know that they can also, based on some understanding they have of you, offer some of these other services.

因此，传统的销售点分期付款演变成了BNPL，也就是所谓的‘四期付款’或‘六期付款’。

So what went to traditional point of sale installments is BNPL, otherwise known as Pay in four or Pay in six.

我们看到越来越多的商家和提供商在提供这种服务。

So we're seeing more, merchants, more providers that are offering this.

消费者喜欢这种方式。

Consumers like it.

他们喜欢这种简单便捷的体验，比如我花了100美元或100迪拉姆，现在可以分4期，每期只付4.25美元。

They like the simplicity and ease of, you know, I've made a $100 purchase or 100 dirham purchase, and I can pay it back in just $4.25, DERM payments.

而在背后，还有一些技术手段和对消费者的理解，以便在恰当的时机为消费者提供合适的方案。

And, you know, behind that, there's some technology and understanding of the consumer as well to be able to offer the the consumer the right offer at the right time.

因此，我们确实有一个解决方案，叫做我们的Visa分期解决方案，它允许我们利用技术，为所有不同的客户广泛提供这一服务，让所有Visa持卡人都能获得一系列可选的分期方案。

So we certainly have a solution, called our Visa installment solutions that allows that to be used to use our tech, around all of our different clients and to make it available broadly to all of our Visa cardholders to be able to have a whole catalog of options to be able to offer consumers.

但你更广泛地看到，这种趋势正在超越支付领域逐步成形。

But you see it more broadly, taking shape, beyond just, payments.

例如，现在有许多金融科技公司正在支持小型和微型商户。

So for example, there are lots of fintechs out there now that are supporting small and micro merchants.

它们正在为这些商户提供支持。

So they're supporting these merchants.

商户在接受支付的同时，利用这些数据以及对商户业务的理解，来判断：好吧。

The merchants are accepting payments, and they're using that data and their understanding of that merchant's business, with that payment data to be able to say, okay.

你知道，这位小型卖家是我的客户。

You know, small seller, that's my client.

我觉得你的销售额会很高。

I I think you're gonna have, you've got a lot of sales.

我看出你需要资金来采购库存。

I can see you're gonna need some money for inventory.

我可以在合适的时间、以合适的价格向你提供贷款，以帮助你实现这一目标。

I can give you a loan at the right time, at the right price to be able to facilitate it.

所以这非常自然。

So it's very, very natural.

你会看到这些事情越来越多地发生，比如信贷、保险等。

And you'll see these things happening more and more, credit, insurance, etcetera.

这是一个大趋势，许多科技公司正在真正开始整合。

So it is a big trend, and you've got lots of tech players, that are really starting to integrate.

这是一个重要的领域。

So it's a big area.

它仍在持续增长，我们当然也在支持它。

It continues to grow, and we're certainly supporting it.

非常好。

Very good.

我们已经讨论了五个主要话题，考虑到我们所覆盖的地区涵盖86个市场，并且是全球重要的旅行枢纽之一，如果我们不关注跨境支付，那就太疏忽了——显然，随着全球化、更多人旅行以及人们与全球企业互动的增加，跨境支付至关重要。

So we've covered five big topics already, and I think it would be remiss of us in a region which spans 86 markets and is one of the travel hubs of the world if we didn't look at cross border payments, obviously is so critical as there is globalization, more people travel, as more people are interacting with businesses around the world.

你在跨境支付方面看到了哪些趋势和动态？

What are you seeing as some of the sort of the trends and the dynamics within cross border?

是的。

Yeah.

所以，你知道，你提到了旅行。

So, you know, you talked about, traveling.

所以，你知道，跨境支付一直以来都保持着良好的增长势头，疫情后，消费者回归并持续消费，我们看到了跨境支付的强劲增长。

So, you know, cross border well, first of all, cross border has been growing at a good clip, and we've continued to see, you know, good strong growth in cross border payments, both post COVID, consumers coming back, spending.

确实出现了一种趋势，即从购买商品转向购买体验，这非常好。

There's a lot there was definitely a shift away from buying goods to buying experiences, and and that's great.

这种趋势仍在持续。

And and that continues.

此外，我认为你还看到了其他一些趋势：如今人们越来越多地在电子商务平台上购买实物和虚拟商品，而这些交易常常跨越国界。

You've also, I think, seen a couple of other trends, much more purchasing now, both physical goods and virtual goods on e commerce, which often goes beyond borders.

这正是全球网络的美妙之处——比如，一位摩洛哥的卖家可以制作精美的手工艺品，并不仅卖给本地消费者，还能卖给我们的43亿持卡人。

And that and that's certainly the beauty of a global network where you can have, you know, a seller in Morocco making, some beautiful handicraft, being able to sell it not just to the folks in that marketplace, but really to our 4,300,000,000 cardholders.

这种情况仍在持续发生。

That continues to happen.

我认为还有其他几件事正在发生。

I would argue there's a few other things that are happening.

一是消费者、商家和卖家希望这些支付更快捷。

One is consumers, merchants, and sellers want these payments to be faster.

他们希望更有保障。

They want more certainty.

因此，你现在看到了大量B2B支付。

So you now see a lot of b two b payments.

我们刚才谈到了虚拟世界和创作者经济，创作者们希望获得报酬，并且希望在他们想要的时候得到报酬。

You see we were just talking about the virtual world and creator, creator economy where creators wanna get paid, and they wanna get paid when they wanna be paid.

所以，如果你考虑这种使用场景，它不一定是一个传统的信用卡使用场景——你是一个创作者，希望从某个平台获得报酬。

So, you know, if you think about this use case, which is not a traditional necessarily card use case where, you're a creator and you wanna be paid off of a certain platform.

能够在你想要的时候获得版税或付款，这一点至关重要。

The ability to, get your royalties or your payments when you want them is really critical.

而这涉及一种不同的支付方式。

And that involves a different type of payment.

这涉及大约几百美元。

It involves, you know, maybe a couple $100.

它需要快速完成，因为这是你的生计，你希望清楚知道自己能拿到多少钱。

It needs to be fast because you want it because it's your livelihood, and you wanna come and know how much you're getting.

所以我认为我们和其他人一直在努力确保支付快速、近乎实时。

So I think we've been working and others have been working to make sure, it's fast, near instant.

它方便且可扩展。

It is convenient, and it is scalable.

我之前提到过我们的Visa Direct通道，我们有能力向43亿张卡片、数十亿个账户和钱包发送付款。

And I mentioned earlier, around our own Visa Direct Rails, and we have the ability to to, send payments to our 4,300,000,000 cards, billions of accounts, and billions of wallets.

这是一种趋势，我们正在目睹，我们的客户希望能够即时向他人转账，尤其是跨境转账。

And this is a trend, you know, that we're seeing and our clients want is the ability to push money to people, you know, instantly, especially, cross border.

如果将这一点与我之前谈到的代理商业和自动驾驶商业结合起来，现在确实出现了一个时刻：小型商家不仅能通过全球平台被发现，还能因为我们理解消费者的偏好，由代理直接找到这些商家。

And then if you couple that in with what I was talking more about, you know, agented commerce and self driving commerce, there's this moment certainly now where smaller merchants, may be able to be discovered not just on a global platform, but just because the, you know, we understand the consumer's preferences and, that that agent is able to find these merchants directly.

因此，你也需要确保他们也能收到款项。

So you need to make sure they get paid as well.

所以我认为，这种趋势将持续下去，朝着更快、更简单的支付方式发展，这种支付方式不仅能支持消费者对商户的付款，还能更广泛地支持企业对企业以及小卖家的付款。

So I think there's this continued trend towards faster, and more simplistic payments that can support, not just consumer to merchant payments, but more broadly, b to b and small seller payments as well.

非常好。

Very good.

但它

But it

这意味着你明年圣诞节的礼物购物将真正走向全球。

does mean your gift shopping next Christmas will have to go truly global.

而不仅仅局限于你所在的国家或城市。

Rather than just within the country or city that you're in.

确实如此。

It does.

我肯定需要这种功能。

I'm going to need that definitely.

太棒了。

Fantastic.

再次衷心感谢您，安德鲁，今天能加入我们。

Well, thank you so much once again, Andrew, for joining us today.

我们今天讨论了六个非常重要的主题，今年可以持续关注和跟进。

We've covered six really big topics there that we can monitor and follow throughout the year.

希望您能在大约十二个月后再次与我们连线，届时我们将回顾哪些预测成真了，以及我们学到了什么。是的。

Hopefully you'll be able to rejoin us in about twelve months' time and we'll look at which of the predictions played out and what we've learned Yeah.

在此过程中

Along the

预测是一项艰难的游戏，丹。

Predictions are a tough game, Dan.

但我们所选的一些预测内容实际上已经在发生了。

But some of the ones we picked are things that are already happening.

对我来说，我认为人工智能与商业领域真正会发生什么，还有待观察。

For me, I think, really what happens in AI and commerce is something that we'll see how that shapes out.

我认为长期趋势可能是正确的，只是具体如何发展还不确定。

I think the long term arc is probably right, you know, how it plays out.

我们会看到其他事情。

We'll see the other things.

我认为我们现在面临的真正需求是很多的。

And I think we've got a lot of comfort that there are real needs in coming now.

太棒了。

Fantastic.

再次感谢你，安德鲁。

Well, thank you once again, Andrew.

谢谢。

Thank you.

非常感谢你今天加入我们。

Thank you so much for joining us today.

希望你喜欢这个播客，请下次继续关注我们关于Symeo地区支付、商业和资金流动的更多讨论。

I hope you've enjoyed the podcast and please join us next time for more discussions on payments, commerce and money movements across the Symeo region.

谢谢。

Thank you.