凯尔蒂·奈特（超级粉丝）

大家好。

Hi, guys.

欢迎回到《我们该谈谈》，这是In the Know出品的一档流行文化访谈系列节目。

Welcome back to We Should Talk, a pop culture interview series from In the Know.

我是主持人吉布森·约翰斯。

I'm your host, Gibson Johns.

今天我们的播客嘉宾是凯尔蒂·奈特，你可能知道她是长期播客节目《Lady Gang》的联合主持人之一。

And today on the podcast, we have Kelty Knight, who you may know as one of the cohosts of the long running podcast, Lady Gang.

你可能也通过她在E!频道或之前ET的工作认识她，但她最新的项目是担任CBS新节目《超级粉丝》的创作者、执行制片人兼联合主持人。

You may have also recognized her from her work on e or previously ET, but her latest project is being the creator and executive producer and cohost of a new CBS show called Super Fan.

《超级粉丝》每集都围绕一位大牌音乐艺术家展开，比如仙妮亚·唐恩、LL Cool J、小大城乐队、凯尔西·巴勒里尼、皮普保罗等。

Each episode of Super Fan is based around one big musical artist, whether that's Shania Twain, LL Cool J, Little Big Town, Kelsey Ballerini, Pitbull.

第一季请来了不少大牌明星，每期节目会邀请五位该艺术家的超级粉丝，他们通过竞赛赢得精心设计的VIP专属礼包，获得与偶像互动的独特体验。

They got some great big names for this first season, and, each episode, they bring on, like, five super fans of each artist, and they compete to kind of get this amazing curated VIP personalized package to kind of experience with their favorite artists.

这是个充满欢乐的致敬类节目。

And it's a really fun celebratory show.

节目中融入了大量音乐元素。

There's a lot of music interwoven throughout.

你会忍不住跟着唱起来。

You'll be singing along.

每位艺术家都会在每期节目中表演，非常有趣。

Each artist performs on each episode, and it's just fun.

这是绝佳的夏季电视节目。

It's it's great summer TV.

节目氛围非常积极向上。

It's very positive.

内容非常健康向上，而且这档节目是她创作的。

It's very wholesome, and she created the show.

所以听听这档节目从构思到播出的发展历程会很有意思。

So it's really interesting to hear about sort of the evolution of this show, what it went through to kind of get to air.

这整个过程耗时极长，足足有五到十年时间。

It's been a very long process, literally five or ten years.

凯尔蒂绝对是业内顶尖人物之一。

And Kelty's just one of the best in the biz.

她超级搞笑。

She's hilarious.

她非常聪明，我特别佩服像她这样能同时涉足多个领域的人。

She's super smart, and I just admire anybody like her who has their hand in so many different pots.

她的职业生涯确实令我非常钦佩，或许有朝一日我也希望能效仿。

And she definitely has a career that that I very much admire and and maybe wanna emulate someday.

请继续收听我对凯尔蒂·奈特的专访。

So keep listening for my interview with Kelty Knight.

每周三晚9点，在CBS电视台《老大哥》之后锁定《超级粉丝》节目。

Tune in to Superfan on Wednesdays at 9PM on CBS after Big Brother.

请在苹果播客或其他平台为《We Should Talk》节目评分、评论并订阅。

And please rate, review, and subscribe to We Should Talk on Apple Podcasts to wherever your podcast.

好的。

Alright.

我们正在与凯尔蒂·奈特交谈，她是长期播客节目《Lady Gang》的联合主持人之一。

So we're here with Kelty Knight, who is one of the cohosts of the long running podcast Lady Gang.

她是eNews的首席记者，现在又是即将于本周在CBS首播的节目《超级粉丝》的创作者、执行制片人兼联合主持人。

She is a chief correspondent for eNews, and now she is the creator, executive producer, and cohost of Super Fan, which is premiering on CBS this week.

凯尔蒂，能和你交谈我太兴奋了。

Kelty, I'm so excited to talk to you.

你最近怎么样？

How are you?

我也超级兴奋。

I'm so excited.

感觉就像经历了漫长的孕期，现在终于要生下这个宝宝了。

I feel like the gestation period has been long, and I'm about to give birth to the baby.

这是我五年来全心投入的事业，现在终于面世的感觉简直不可思议。

And this is, like, all I've cared about for over five years, and I just it feels incredible for it finally to be out in the world.

我们会深入探讨这个话题，所以这个项目酝酿了五年之久？

So we'll get more into this, but it's been a five year process?

这确实是一个漫长的过程。

It's been a really long process.

实际上我在2014年就注册了这个节目的一个版本。

I actually registered a version of this show in 2014.

哇。

Wow.

天啊。

Oh my god.

所以差不多有十年了。

So almost a decade.

哇。

Wow.

所以我认为我们应该从一开始就明确，你在Instagram上提到过这点，但你被允许宣传这个节目，因为这不受演员工会后续合约的限制。

So I I think we should just stay at the very top of this, and you post about this on Instagram, but you are permitted to be promoting this show through the this is not covered by the SAG after contract.

所以你这样做并没有越过任何警戒线，这也是你在Instagram上提到的内容。

So you're not, like, breaking any sort of picket line by doing this, which is something you post about Instagram.

我认为有必要在一开始就说明这些事，因为我觉得很多人并不完全清楚某些事情的界限在哪里。

I think it's probably important to say at the top of some of these things because I think a lot of a lot of people don't really know exactly where the line is for some of this stuff.

所以我觉得最好先声明这一点。

And so I think it's probably just important to say that at the top.

完全同意。

Absolutely.

而且，你知道，我作为SEG AFTER的长期会员，这段时间确实非常艰难。

And, it it you know, I've been a member of SEG AFTER for a long time, and so this has this has been a really hard time.

但当我向SEG After咨询这个节目时，他们表示这属于另一份合同范畴，就像我在eNews的工作一样，他们甚至说：

But when I spoke to SEG After about this show, this falls under a different contract as well as my work at eNews, and they were actually like, hey.

如果你能举办活动，比如我们正在时代广场筹备的活动，那就去做吧。

If you can hold an event, if you can go and do you know, we're doing an event in Times Square.

如果你能雇佣一些人，比如造型团队，那非常好，因为现在大家都没工作。

Like, if you can hire some people, if you can hire a glam team, like, that's really good because nobody's working right now.

如果你能帮助一些人支付这个月的房租，而且我们这边没问题，那就放手去做。

And if you can help a few people be able to pay their rent this month and it's okay with us, like, then go do it.

所以，你知道的，这感觉苦乐参半。

So, you know, it's bittersweet.

就像我在Instagram上说的，这是一个非常苦乐参半的时刻，因为我知道自己正处在一个非常幸运的时刻，而对很多人来说这却令人心碎。

Like I said on Instagram, this is a very bittersweet moment because I I know that I'm really having a big lucky moment, and that it's so heartbreaking for so many others.

是啊。

Yeah.

我的意思是这很重要。

I mean that's important.

我认为这一点经常被遗忘，就是那些可能间接或直接在这个行业里的人，他们不在工会里，但作为整个局势的副产品，他们基本上也处于失业状态。

I think that that that gets forgotten, I think, in some of this is, like, some of the people who are maybe, like, tangentially in the industry or directly in the industry who it's kind of out of their cont like, they're not in this union, but they are kind of out of work just just kind of, like, as a byproduct of the whole situation.

所以很明显，我们希望未来能尽快达成某种和解。

So, obviously, we're hoping for some sort of reconciliation moving forward soon.

不过，我真的很喜欢你本周在Instagram上发布的那条信息，我觉得它看起来反响也很好。

But, again, I'm I'm glad that you I I really like that message you put on Instagram, this week because I think and it seems like it was really well received too.

是的。

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

确实如此。

It was.

我只是想，倾听一下。

And I just wanted to, like listen.

我穿着各种服装跑来跑去，像是在开派对，但我也真的很想让大家都知道，我并不是那么混蛋的人，会忘记很多人正在苦苦挣扎。

I'm running around in in my outfits and give like, having the party, but I also really wanted to make sure that everyone knew that, you know, I'm I'm not that much of an asshole, that I would, you know, have forgotten that a lot of people are really struggling.

没错。

Yeah.

百分百赞同。

A 100%.

那我们来说说超级粉丝的事吧。

So let's get into super fan.

再次强调，这对你来说是个重要时刻。

So, again, this is a big moment for you.

你是这个节目的创作者。

You're the creator of the show.

你是执行制片人。

You executive produced it.

你还是节目的联合主持人。

You're a cohost of the show.

这是你第一次同时身兼这么多角色，对吧？

Is this this is your first time kinda wearing all of those hats, correct, at the same time?

是的。

Yes.

几年前我们曾有个基于播客《Lady Men》的节目，当时虽然挂名执行制片，但基本只是虚职。

So I had a show based on our podcast, Lady Men, years ago, and and we were executive producers, but really in name only.

这是我第一次全程参与节目制作——从提案卖给电视台，到预算制定、团队组建，再到后期剪辑等所有环节。

And so this is the first time I've ever start to finish taking a show, sold it to a network, been involved in the budget and the hiring of the staff and all the stuff that makes a show, and the edits.

整个过程非常刺激，我真的很享受这些工作内容。

And so it's been really thrilling, and I I just like, I love that part of it so much.

所以现在让我去主持别人的节目会很难了。

So now it's gonna be hard for me to just host someone else's show.

我现在总是会想当老板。

I always want now I'm gonna always wanna be the boss.

好吧。

So okay.

我们提到过这个节目你差不多十年前就注册了版权。

So we we mentioned it's it's you know, you registered version of the show almost ten years ago.

特别是这个节目，可能花了五年左右的时间。

This one in particular, maybe like a five year process.

跟我聊聊制作这样一档节目的过程吧。

Talk me through some of that path of getting a show like this made.

比如，在这个过程中你遭遇过很多拒绝吗？

Like, do you do you face a lot of rejection along the way?

主要还是关于开发内容并让它成功播出？

Is it mostly about, like, just development of something bringing it to air?

跟我讲讲这个过程。

Talk me through some of that process.

嗯，我有一位联合创作人和联合执行制片人乔迪·罗斯，她离开前在CBS担任高管多年。

Well, I I have a cocreator and coexecutive producer, Jodi Roth, and she was a longtime executive at CBS before she left.

我们合作后，我把这个想法带给了她。

And we partnered up, and I brought this idea to her.

我当时说，我有个关于粉丝的节目创意，她真的让它大放异彩，因为她是我认识的最聪明的女性。

And I was like, have this idea for this show on fans, And she really helped make it sparkle because she's just, like, the smartest woman I know.

但过程中充满了拒绝和不确定性。

But there's so much rejection, and there's so much uncertainty.

即使你有个绝妙创意——比如我认为《超级粉丝》就是电视上前所未见的节目类型。

And even if you have a great idea like, I think super fan is one of those shows you've never seen anything like it on television.

你从没见过像艾拉·柯川和仙妮亚·唐恩这样的大牌明星，在距离粉丝两秒之遥的地方，听粉丝们声泪俱下地告白，同时还颁发奖品。

You've never seen huge a list stars like Ella Coltrane and Shnei Twain be two seconds away from their fans while their fans are, like, pleading their case on why they love them, like and and giving away these prizes.

这确实是个非常原创的创意。

Like, it really is such an original idea.

即便有这么一个绝妙的好点子，也要经历重重关卡。

And and so even with such a good, good, good, good idea, there's so many hoops to jump through.

你知道吗？

You know?

电视台想要游戏节目吗？

Is does the network want a game show?

电视台想要音乐节目吗？

Does the network want a music show?

他们的档期有空缺吗？

Is there time in their schedule?

你明白吗？

You know?

预算是多少？

What's the budget gonna be?

能请到合适的嘉宾吗？

Can you book people for it?

你如何找到粉丝？

How do you find the fans?

我们在疫情期间做了很多这样的工作。

And we were doing a lot of this during COVID.

所以你知道，虽然遇到了很多艰难险阻，但现在进入宣传期后，我越来越多地观看节目和片段剪辑。

And so it you know, there were many, many uphill battles, but I think it's one of those things that, you know, now that we're in the promo, I'm I'm I'm watching the show more, and I'm watching the clips.

看到粉丝们脸上洋溢的喜悦，以及明星们能以这种方式与粉丝互动的快乐，你真的会忘记所有不愉快的事情。

And, like, the joy on the fans' faces and the joy on the stars' faces getting to interact with their fans like this, you actually just forget all the bad stuff.

仿佛那些困难从未存在过。

It's like it was never hard.

我从未辗转难眠。

I never cut myself to sleep.

就像，我只觉得一切都如此美好。

Like, I just love everything is beautiful.

不。

No.

我太喜欢了。

I love it.

而且，你知道，你提到了邀请这些嘉宾的过程，你们真的请到了一些非常了不起的大牌。

And and, you know, you mentioned, like, the booking of these people, and, like, you you got some really amazing big names.

前两期节目有LL Cool J、仙妮亚·唐恩。

The the first two episodes are LL Cool J, Shania Twain.

还有凯尔西·巴勒里尼、小大城镇乐队。

There's Kelsey Ballerini, Little Big Town.

这第一批节目中的艺人阵容真的很强大。

It's it's a really great group of artists that are in this first this first group of episodes.

跟我详细说说邀请过程吧，因为这个方向其实有很多选择，但我觉得你们最终确定的这些名字都是能跨越不同世代的。

Like, talk me through the booking process because it's like you can you can take you can take this in a lot of different directions, but I feel like the the names you guys settled on or got kind of they're cross generational.

他们能吸引大众观众。

They appeal to mass audiences.

聊聊这个策划过程。

Talking about that process.

是啊。

Yeah.

我是说，我们做了所有电视节目都会做的事——直接去找碧昂丝，问她'碧昂丝，你想参加《超级粉丝》吗？'

I mean, so we did what every show on television does, which is we went to Beyonce, and they're like, Beyonce, do you wanna do super fan?

其实我没亲自联系碧昂丝，所以连她怎么回复的都不知道。

And I I didn't go to Beyonce, so I don't even know what the response was.

但我们很快调整方向，最终列出了一份非常多元化的名单。因为我们想涵盖多种音乐风格，吸引不同类型的粉丝，所以重点挑选了那些拥有大量经典作品的音乐人。

But then we quickly moved on, and we put together a really eclectic list because we wanted to have, a lot of music covered, a lot of different fans covered, and we really went after artists that had huge musical catalogs.

我们希望他们拥有数十年的音乐作品积累

We wanted them to have decades of music and work, and we and then we really wanted it to be artists that have those special fan bases.

你知道吗？

You know?

对粉丝而言意义非凡

Life for fans.

所以这一点非常重要

So that was really important.

而且，没错，我确实非常、非常深入地参与其中。

And then, yes, I was incredibly, incredibly involved.

我的搭档乔迪也是。

So was my partner, Jody.

CBS的高管们，如杰克·苏斯曼等每年为格莱美奖不懈努力的人也同样如此。

So were the executives at CBS, Jack Sussman, and others who work tirelessly on the Grammy Awards on CBS every year.

比如，我们给朋友打电话，联系那些欠我们人情的人，承诺未来回报，就是想方设法——毕竟这是个新节目，对吧？

Like, we were calling our friends, calling people that owed us favors, promising favors for the future, just being like, what can I do to you know, because you're it's a new show?

没人知道这是什么。

Nobody knows what it is.

没错。

Right.

所以，

So,

我甚至不得不和他进行了两小时的Zoom会议，向LL Cool J详细解释节目中每个环节的安排和内容。

I mean, I had to get on his two hour Zoom with LL Cool J and walk him through exactly what would happen at each moment of the show and what it was.

最后，他戴着墨镜往后一靠。

And by the end, he, like, sat back in his sunglasses.

他说，不行。

He's like, no.

不行。

No.

这个很酷。

This is cool.

这个超赞。

This is dope.

就像，我

Like, I

完全明白了。

totally got it.

所以他懂了。

So He got it.

是啊。

Yeah.

百分百认同。

A 100%.

我实在想不出怎么会有人不喜欢这个。不过我看过的这几集里，我特别喜欢的一点是它抓住了'超级粉丝'这个概念——我觉得可能过去十年左右通过社交媒体，

I I I don't I can't imagine why that wouldn't appeal to somebody, but I do feel like one thing I do love about these episodes that I've seen is it takes the concept of a super fan, which I think maybe, like, the past, like, decade or so through social media.

这个概念已经被重新定义为'死忠粉'了。

Like, it's got been kind of relabeled as stan.

它有时会带有某种负面色彩，比如粉丝之间的争斗，以及人们对自己喜欢的艺术家过度越界的行为等等。

It has this sort of, like, negative light sometimes of, like, the stan wars and people, like, kind of overstepping their boundary with their favorite artists and and whatever.

我们经常看到这种情况，我认为尤其是女性流行歌手身上。

We've seen this constantly, especially, I think, with female pop stars.

但我感觉这个节目重新定义了'超级粉丝'这个标签，把它变成了一种非常积极、健康、真诚的存在，在粉丝和艺人之间建立了一种安全感。

But I feel like this show sort of reclaims that super fan label and makes it, like, a a a very positive, wholesome, earnest thing where it's like there's a safety between the fan and the artist.

这对你来说也是这个节目DNA的一部分吗？

Is that also kind of part of the DNA of the show for you?

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得听着。

I think listen.

我们绝不会让任何人陷入任何危险，我想说粉丝群体中可能有0.0002%的害群之马会破坏整体形象，比如那些在BB Rexha演出时朝她扔东西的人，或者哈里·斯泰尔斯演唱会上捣乱的。

We're we were never gonna put anyone in any kind of danger, and I would say that anyone who's a fan and and a part of a fan base, there's there's maybe point 0002% of bad apples that ruin it for everybody else, like, that are throwing things at BB Rexha while she's on stage in Harry Styles.

其实场馆里其他所有人都表现得很文明。

Like, everyone else in that arena is being cool.

所以这个节目展现的就是那些真正酷的粉丝群体。

And so, you know, this is a representation of those fans that are really cool.

当然，他们必须通过各种测试和审查，我们需要确保这些都是很棒的人。

And and, of course, they had to go through all kinds of, you know, testing and checks, and and we need to make sure these were, like, great human beings.

但我认为应该这样想：每个人都有自己的爱好，而我觉得地球上每个人都渴望被看见。

But I do think that you have to think of it like everyone has a hobby, and I feel like everyone on earth just wants to be seen.

无论你是沉迷《变装皇后》、美妆抖音，还是其他任何社群——那都是你存在的圈子。

So whether you love for me, like, reading Drag Race, makeup TikTok, like, you know, if that's your those are the communities you exist in.

比如，有些人属于仙妮亚·特温的粉丝群体。

Like, some people exist in the Shania Twain community.

我认为这关乎成年后如何结交朋友并感受到被关注。

And I think it's just about finding friends as adults and and feeling seen.

所以找到这些粉丝，成为那个群体的一部分，整个过程都是积极的。

And so finding these fans, being a part of that community, it was all positive.

我们真的——而且很酷的是——现在所有粉丝都成了朋友。

We really and and what's cool is that all the fans are friends now.

比如皮普保罗的粉丝们

Like, Pitbull fans

哦，我太喜欢这样了。

Oh, I love that.

这期节目里，他们一直在美国各地巡演，跟着皮普保罗的巡演路线一起跑遍所有站点。

Episode, They all I've been traveling around The US going all of stops on pitbull's tour together.

他们都成了好朋友。

They're all friends.

这是个超大的群聊链。

It's a giant text chain.

粉丝们正在筹备一场盛大的时代广场首映活动。

Fans were doing a big Times Square premiere.

不仅有些LL Cool J的粉丝要来，还有为六周后才播出的Kelsey Ballerina那集专程飞来的粉丝们互相见面。

Not only are the some of the LL Cool J fans coming, there's fans for the Kelsey Ballerina episode, which isn't for another six weeks flying in to see each other.

所以这是女性...我是说，通过音乐建立的成年女性友谊。

So this is female I mean, adult friendships through music.

是啊。

Yeah.

百分百赞同。

A 100%.

我觉得节目另一个非常积极的点是，虽然最后会有赢家获得艺术家精心准备的VIP大礼包。

And I think that's another really nice positive about the show is that, like, yeah, there's a winner who gets this great VIP kind of curated package from the artist at the end.

但即便是所谓的'输家'，他们也能和自己最喜欢的艺术家互动。

But even, like, the quote, unquote losers, like, they still got to interact with their favorite artist of all time.

他们可以拥抱自己的偶像。

They get to hug them.

他们有机会向偶像讲述自己的故事，表达偶像对他们意味着什么。

They get to tell them their story and express how much they mean to them.

对于每期参赛的五位选手来说，他们仍然收获颇丰。

There's still a huge there's still a lot to gain for all five of the people that compete on each episode.

是的。

Yes.

当然，我们的每位超级巨星都会在节目中献上精彩表演。

And, of course, each one of our superstars is doing a big performance on the show.

所以这对我们来说非常重要。

And so it's really important to us.

当你被淘汰时，你不会直接回到观众席。

When you're eliminated from the game, you don't just go back to the audience.

你会被带到舞台侧边区域。

You go sort of to the side of the stage.

设有VIP专区。

There are VIP section.

所以没错，虽然你没能赢得超级粉丝称号，但你却能亲眼目睹LL Cool J、仙妮亚或皮普保罗的表演——这可能是你一生中在演唱会里能拥有的最佳座位了。

So, yes, you're not winning super fan, but you're also watching Ella Cool J or Shania or Pitbull perform literally the best seat you could ever have in a concert in your life.

是啊。

Yeah.

不。

No.

对许多人来说这简直是梦想成真，所以我觉得这一点不容忽视。

It it's it's it's a dream for so many of these people, and so I think that that's that shouldn't be lost.

但在做这期调研时，Kalti，我真没想到你职业生涯初期有如此深厚的音乐舞蹈背景。

But, you know, in doing research for this, Kalti, I didn't realize how much of how much of, like, the beginnings of your career and your background is in music and dance.

比如你曾为Live Nation主持过节目。

Like, you hosted a show for Live Nation.

你有好多年都是以舞蹈为主业的。

You were primarily a dancer for many years.

这对你来说是一条贯穿线吗？

Is that a through line for you?

某种程度上，显然你现在做了大量名人采访和报道，但多年来你职业生涯中的音乐元素是否对你来说有着特别的特殊意义或热情？

Sort of, like, has has obviously, now you do tons of celebrity interviews and coverage, but have have the musical bits throughout your career kind of had an extra specialness or passion from you, kind of through the years?

这个问题问得太棒了，为你的背景调查点赞。

That is such a great question, and bravo on your background.

你知道，对我来说，我从小就是一名古典芭蕾舞者，曾经是一名舞者。

You know, for me, I grew up as a classical ballerina and and was a was a dancer.

我曾是碧昂斯、泰勒等许多人的伴舞，也参演过电影和电视节目，我一直热爱音乐。

I I was backup dancer for Beyonce and Taylor and many people appearing in movies and TV shows, and I always loved music.

我完全不会唱歌。

I can't sing a lick.

我参加过30多场百老汇演出的试镜，但都没成功。

I auditioned unsuccessfully for over 30 Broadway shows.

哇。

Wow.

我总是能通过舞蹈选拔，却总在声乐环节被刷下来。

I can't I would always make it past the dance cut and never the singing cut.

比如，我根本不会唱歌，所以这档节目很棒，因为它不需要你会唱歌。

Like, I cannot sing, which is why this show's amazing because you don't need to be able to sing.

你

You

可以参加一档闪亮的舞台游戏。但对我来说，当我转型做主持人时，唯一真正了解的就是音乐，因为我曾通过巡演、音乐视频等方式参与过许多音乐人的生活。

can be on a shiny floor game But for me, you know, when I transitioned into hosting, the only thing I really knew anything about was music because I had danced and been a part of so many musicians' lives through touring and videos and things like that.

所以这似乎是我最容易入手的领域。

So that just seemed like an easy beat for me to start being in.

然后，你知道，早期我非常幸运。

And then, you know, early on, I got really lucky.

我选中了几位当时还默默无闻的优秀艺人，比如艾德·希兰和梦龙乐队。

I I picked a few really good artists like Ed Sheeran and Imagine Dragons who couldn't get press.

当时根本没人知道他们是谁。

Nobody knew who they were.

然后我说，嘿。

And I said, hey.

我能为我的数字节目采访你吗？

Can I do an interview with you for my digital show?

他们说，当然可以。

And they're like, sure.

然后艾德，你知道的，两年后，艾德邀请我去他演出的场馆骑滑板车。

And then Ed you know, two years later, Ed's invited me to scooter around his arena he's playing.

所以我真的很幸运，音乐一直是我生活的纽带。

So I was I was really lucky, and and music has been just a through line.

我嫁给了一位音乐经纪人。

I'm married to a music manager.

我的整个生活都围绕着音乐产业转。

It's it's just my whole life just revolves around the music industry.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以，我是说，你不可能想象你为泰勒·斯威夫特伴舞而我却不过问这件事。

So, I mean, I don't you can't imagine that you've got dance background for Taylor Swift without me asking about it.

她正经历着职业生涯中最辉煌的一年之一，时代巡回演唱会接连打破各种纪录。

She's having one of the biggest one of the biggest years of her career, the era's tour just, like, breaking all these records.

你为她伴舞的经历是怎样的？

What was your experience like dancing with her?

那是什么时候的事？

When was that?

还有，看到她如今达到的事业巅峰，你有什么感受？

And kind of what's it like seeing the pinnacle that she's at right now?

是啊。

Yeah.

我确实为泰勒伴过舞。

So I danced for Taylor.

其中一个重要场合就是MTV音乐录影带大奖，就是她和坎耶同台的那届。

One of the big events was the VMAs when she did you it was the Kanye VMAs.

哇。

Wow.

她本该和我一起在无线电城音乐厅外的。

She belonged with me outside of Radio City Music Hall.

我就坐在她正前方的出租车里。

I'm on the taxi cab right in front of her.

我只记得她妈妈走过来给所有舞者每人发了一枚'无畏'吉他拨片，让我们放在口袋里祈求好运，至今我还留着那枚拨片。

I just remember her mom coming by all the dancers and giving us all fearless guitar picks for In Our Pockets for good luck, and I still have mine.

之后多年里，当泰勒频繁参加媒体宣传和采访时，我常能见到她。

And then for years, I saw Taylor when was she doing a lot more press and interviews.

后来我转做后台主持工作后，在美国音乐奖、格莱美等场合也常遇见她，她总是那么亲切。

I would see her once I had moved hosting backstage at, you know, the American Music Awards and the Grammys and things, and she's just so lovely.

更不可思议的是，她现在还会给我寄礼物。

I'm she still sends me, like, gifts, which is so crazy.

比如刚给我寄了件紫色毛衣

Like, just sent me the purple sweater

为了那件开衫毛衣

for The cardigan.

是啊

Yeah.

送来了开衫毛衣和一张温馨的便条

Coming out, the cardigan and a nice note.

而且，你知道，我觉得她还记得我是谁，这很暖心

And, like, you know, I I just it's nice that she remembers who I am, I think.

我对她深感钦佩

I'm so impressed by her.

我认为最重要的是，她真的让其他女性感受到她们可以在商业领域实现任何目标

And I think more than anything, she she really makes other women feel like they can accomplish anything that they want in business.

你明白吗？

You know?

因为她不仅才华横溢，更是个精明的商业奇才

Because she's so talented, but she's such a smart businesswoman.

而且女性节目制作人并不多见。

And there aren't a lot of female show creators.

能在主流电视网制作节目的女性少之又少。

There aren't a lot of females that get shows made on major networks.

所以我在想，如果我是男性，那我就能成为那个主导者。

And so I'm like, well, if I were a man, then I'd be the man.

你知道吗，她真的非常能赋予人力量。

Like, I'm I'm you know, she's she's very empowering.

确实如此。

Very much so.

你刚才引用了那位男士的话，但另一位你为之伴舞的碧昂丝，她唱过《如果我是个男孩》。

I mean, you you just quoted the man, but then the other person you danced for, Beyonce, she has it if I were a boy.

她现在正经历职业生涯最辉煌的时期，文艺复兴巡演如火如荼。

Like, she's also having one of the biggest years of her career with the Renaissance tour.

你是什么时候为她伴舞的？

When did you dance for her?

那是我最后一场演出。

That was my very last gig ever.

我为她跳舞是在她获得偶像奖之类的时候。

I danced for her when she was receiving an icon award or something.

可能是在公告牌音乐奖上。

It was at the Billboard Awards maybe.

好的。

Okay.

拉斯维加斯。

Las Vegas.

我们表演了《Who Run the World》。

We did Who Run the World.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

她还为此专门拍了一部关于筹备过程的纪录片。

She did a whole documentary thing about the the prep for that.

是啊。

Yeah.

对。

Yes.

而且真的听着。

And it was really listen.

我就说我从来不是什么碧昂丝的专属舞者。

I'm like I was never, like, a Beyonce dancer.

我可不是艾希莉那种级别。

I'm not Ashley ever.

比如，我从没跟着她巡演九年什么的。

Like, I was never, like, on tour with her for nine years.

但你确实有过那个高光时刻。

But you had that moment.

我没有她电话号码，但就像，蒂娜女士给我安排了流苏短裙，我就上台了。

I don't have her phone number, but I, like, I put miss Tina put me in a fringe short, and I was there.

那简直太不可思议了。

And it was just incredible.

而且我认为碧昂丝让我觉得追求完美是可以接受的。

And I I think Beyonce is Beyonce makes me feel like it's okay to be a perfectionist.

通过观看她的纪录片以及与她共事，你会发现永不停歇的精神。

And watching her documentaries and and working with her, you know, there's no stopping.

就像如果需要排练到凌晨四点，我们就会一直排练到完美为止。

It's like if we need to rehearse till four in the morning, we're rehearsing till four in the morning until it is perfect.

嗯。

Mhmm.

她绝不会发布任何她自己内心觉得不够100%完美的作品。

And she will not put out something that she doesn't feel in her heart is 100%.

有时候作为女性，尤其当我处于权力位置时——比如创作《超级粉丝》时做剪辑，我必须极力争取某个片段保留，或坚持我想要的舞台效果和视觉设计。

And sometimes when you're a woman, in a position of power, especially for me when I created super fan and doing the edits and I'm having to really fight for a certain clip to be in or the way that I want the stage to look or maybe the graphics.

你会开始觉得，'我是不是太专横了，大家会不会不喜欢我'。

Like, you you start to feel like, oh, maybe I'm being too bossy, and I don't think people will like me.

要知道，碧昂丝就是那种说一不二的人。

And, you know, Beyonce is someone that's like, no.

其实，我...我也想做个好人，但我希望所有人都明白，事情必须按我的方式来，这就是我的超能力所在。

Actually, I I I want to be a nice person, but I want everyone to understand that, like, it's gonna be my way, and that is why that's my superpower.

所以在这一点上，我从她身上获得了极大的力量。

And so I'm very empowered by her in that way.

这太棒了。

That's amazing.

这是你从这次创作节目、担任执行制片人的经历中获得的最大启示之一吗？就是不断提醒自己这一点？还是说在这个过程中你还学到了其他重要经验，可以应用到未来项目中？

Is that is that one of the biggest learnings that you've taken from this experience of being of creating show and being an executive producer of, like, reminding yourself of that, or is there something else that you've also kind of learned a lot through this process that you're gonna take with you to future projects?

我认为真正的收获是学会在这些时刻相信自己的直觉。

I think that the real truth is learning to trust our guts in these moments.

我和乔迪亲手操刀了这档节目的每个环节。

Like, I I I really was you know, our Jody and I's hands are in every element of this show.

从穿着打扮开始——我坚持每期都要穿高端设计师服装，因为我从小在物资匮乏的小镇长大，时尚就是我看红毯时幻想的好莱坞逃生通道。

From the clothes that I'm wearing, I wanted to wear high end designer clothes on every single episode because I grew up in a very small town with not a lot, and fashion was my escape to Hollywood, watching the red carpets.

所以我并不希望它看起来像是，哦，我可以随便在哪个商场买到这些衣服，我想要它充满时尚感，时尚、时尚再时尚，就像一场梦幻。

And so I didn't want it to I didn't want it to look like, oh, I could, you know, get this at this mart where I wanted it to be fashion, fashion, fashion, and it's, like, such a fantasy.

舞台，我希望它呈现出特定的效果。

The stage, I wanted it to look a certain way.

我想要一个圆形舞台。

I wanted it to be a circle.

我想要白色地板。

I wanted it have a white floor.

超级粉丝标志的图形设计里，所有字母都没有圆角，因为这代表着一个充满力量的节目。

The way that the graphic is on the Superfan logo, there are no soft corners on any of the letters because this is a this is a powerful show.

这是一个震撼人心的节目。

It's an impactful show.

这是一档时髦、大胆的节目。

It's a a chic, a bold show.

我不希望它给人柔软的感觉。

I didn't want it to feel soft.

所以，这场秀的每一个小细节都是经过深思熟虑的。

So, like, every little detail of what the show is was thought out.

对我来说，关键在于相信自己的直觉，因为这场秀并不完美。

And for me, it's about trusting my gut because the show is not perfect.

这场秀非常精彩。

The show is fantastic.

如果能拍第二季，我会对一些细节进行调整，因为我算是个完美主义者。

If we get a season two, I would, you know, nip and change a couple things because I would say I'm a perfectionist.

但那些让我后悔的决定，恰恰是当时直觉告诉我要做的。

But, like, the things that I am like, wish I hadn't done that are the things that add my gut at that moment.

我当时就觉得，哦，我们应该...

I was like, oh, we should.

然后你就会想，别太在意这些。

And then you're just like, don't worry about it.

已经很棒了。

It's great.

而且，你知道，我是个完美主义者。

And and, you know, I'm a perfectionist.

所以我反复推敲了上百次，但观众真的非常非常喜欢。

So I picked it apart a 100 times, but people really, really love it.

是啊。

Yeah.

很多和我聊过的记者都说，

A lot of the journalists that I've been talking to are, like,

太有趣了。

so fun.

没错。

Yeah.

确实——真的非常棒。

It's it's really it really is.

这确实是个非常有趣的节目。

It really is a fun show.

你提到了要相信自己的直觉。

You talk about trusting your gut.

有没有那么一个时刻——不一定是在这个节目里，而是你整个职业生涯中——你后悔没有相信自己的直觉，或是现在回想起来会采取不同做法？

Is there a moment from maybe not from this show in particular, but just in your from your career in general where you didn't trust your gut that you think about sometimes or that you would have done differently?

我其实在《超级粉丝》里就有过一次，这故事挺有意思的。

I have one from Superfan, actually, and this is a great story.

我们几个月前拍《超级粉丝》时，我穿去拍Pitbull那集的那条裙子——又绕回时尚话题了。

So we filmed Superfan a few months ago, and, one of the the dress that I wore for the Pitbull I know it goes back to fashion.

我穿去拍Pitbull那集的是条酒红色仿皮漆面连衣裙。

But the dress that I wore for the Pitbull episode is this, like, maroon kind of vinyl latex dress.

是澳大利亚设计师Alex Perry的作品。

It's Alex Perry, which is an Australian designer.

高领设计。

It's turtleneck.

长款，还配了同色系长靴。

It's long, and then it has the matching boots.

所以它就像一件连体衣。

So it's like one piece.

非常金·卡戴珊风格。

It's very Kim Kardashian.

既然我是执行制片人，我就想，Keltie这集要穿什么呢？

And since I was the executive producer, I was like, what's Keltie gonna wear for the episode?

执行制片人哦，Keltie就穿这个吧。

Executive producer, oh, Keltie's gonna wear this.

很棒。

Great.

通过了。

It's approved.

除了我和Jodi之外，不需要其他人批准。

Like, there was no one I had to approve it by except me and Jodi.

所以我们觉得，太棒了。

So we're like, great.

我穿了那件衣服，在节目播出后收到很多反馈，人们到处传播这期节目时都在问：这是什么裙子？

And I wore it, and I got a lot of feedback after the episode was being shown around into different and people are like, what is this dress?

她穿的是什么？

What is she wearing?

我当时就想，天啊。

And I was like, god.

也许我的品味确实很差，或者我可能走得太超前了。

Maybe I maybe I do have bad style, or maybe I went I pushed too far.

我在时尚方面走得太超前了。

I pushed too far in the fashion.

就在两个月前，我在洛杉矶国际机场走着，看到美国甜心克里斯汀·贝尔登上了《简约生活》杂志的封面，穿着和我一模一样的乳胶裙。

And I'm literally walking in LAX at the airport two months ago, and Kristen Bell, the sweetheart of America, is on Living Simple magazine or Simply Living magazine, the cover, wearing my exact latex dress.

我当时就想，不可能。

And I was like, no.

绝对不可能。

No.