127 远洋鸟类 - 与霍莉一起

我想承认本集录制所在地的传统守护者——诺加尔民族的瓦德朱克人。

I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land where this episode was recorded, the Whadjuk people of the Noongar nation.

这里是瓦德朱克诺加尔的土地，数万年来一直被照料、庆祝和理解。

This is Whadjuk Noongar Boodja, a place that has been cared for, celebrated and understood for tens of thousands of years.

我向过去的和现在的长者致以敬意，并认可诺加尔人对这片土地、水道和天空所持有的深厚知识。

I pay my respects to elders past and present, and I recognize the deep knowledge held by Noongar people about these lands, waterways, and skies.

我也将这份敬意延伸至所有收听本播客的原住民和托雷斯海峡岛民。

I extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples listening to this podcast.

我是凯尔西·科斯塔，欢迎收听《周末观鸟者》，这是一档关于澳大利亚鸟类及其热爱者的播客。

I'm Kirsty Costa, and this is Weekend Birder, a podcast about Australian birds and the people who love them.

《周末观鸟者》的听众们已经为本季发送了主题和嘉宾建议。

Weekend Birder listeners have been sending their topic and guest suggestions for this season.

我们现在已列出了一整份待访谈的人物和待了解的鸟类名单。

We now have a full list of people to chat with and birds to learn about.

最受欢迎的主题请求之一是鹈鹕。

One of the most popular topic requests has been pelargics.

感谢Andrea C、Ben G、Clara B、Gemma K、Hannah T、Joshua R、Leslie Y、Matti B、Nikki N、Simon R、Tom R和Victor I。

Sending my thanks to Andrea C, Ben G, Clara B, Gemma K, Hannah T, Joshua R, Leslie Y, Matti B, Nikki N, Simon R, Tom R and Victor I.

如果你熟悉《周末观鸟者》图书馆，可能会记得第四集中提到的霍莉·柯克博士。

If you're familiar with the Weekend Birder Library, you might remember doctor Holly Kirk from episode four.

霍莉谈到了生活在墨尔本市中心皇家公园的华丽秧鸡，以及旨在深入了解它们的公民科学项目——‘华丽城市秧鸡’。

Holly spoke about the superb ferry wrens that live in Royal Park in the center of Melbourne and the citizen science program called Superb City Wrens that is seeking to find out more about them.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，感觉那好像是很久以前的事了，确实也差不多是那样。

I mean, it feels like that was ages ago, and it kind of was, I suppose.

在那之后，‘华丽城市秧鸡’项目真正步入正轨，我非常期待在即将于珀斯举行的鸟类学大会上分享我们从该项目中获得的一些成果。

And the Superb City Wrens project really hit its stride after that, and I'm actually really looking forward to sharing some of the results that we've we've got from that project at the upcoming Ornithology Conference in Perth.

与此相关的是，我一直在与众多地方政府、开发商和设计师紧密合作，创造性地思考如何在城市中为城市鸟类创造更多栖息地。

Kind of on the side of that, I've been working really hard with a lot of local and state governments and developers and designers to think really creatively about how we get more habitat for urban birds into our cities.

为此，我开发了一些软件工具，帮助绘制栖息地地图，并可视化我们可以在哪些地方为不同物种采取行动。

That's meant developing some software tools to help map habitat and visualize where we could take actions for different species.

而且我们还与景观建筑师和规划师合作，提出了一些非常新颖的栖息地设计方案。

And it's also been coming up with some pretty cool, like novel habitat designs with people like landscape architects and planners.

在这里，我们正在探索为一些在珀斯繁殖的彩虹蜂虎鸟建造人工巢穴的想法，幸运的是，它们在这里繁殖。

Here, we're exploring the idea of creating bee eaters for some of our rainbow bee eaters that breed, very luckily breed here in Perth.

我做的另一件事是开始去进行越野跑，这迫使我的鸟类鸣叫识别技能大幅提升。

The other thing I've been doing is I started trail running, and that's really meant that my bird call ID skills have had to level up.

现在我特别喜欢出去跑步，一边跑一边聆听各种鸟鸣，每次越野跑结束后还能做个简单的物种统计，这真是两种极客爱好的完美结合。

And I actually love going out for a run now and being able to also listen to all the birds and kind of have a little species count at the end of every trail run, which is a good combo of two nerdy activities.

霍莉在西澳大利亚州珀斯的科廷大学担任城市生态学家。

Holly is working as an urban ecologist at Curtin University in Perth in Western Australia.

城市生态学家是研究城市中人类、植物和动物之间相互作用的科学家，目标是创造更可持续、更具韧性的城市环境。

An urban ecologist is a scientist who studies the interactions between humans, plants and animals in cities with the goal of creating more sustainable and resilient urban environments.

简而言之，霍莉与政府和产业界合作，帮助改善和保护城市中的生物多样性。

In a nutshell, Holly works with governments and industries to help improve and conserve biodiversity in our cities.

我觉得我并不总能

I feel like I don't necessarily always get to

不再仅仅是一名鸟类学家了，但这意味着我可以把我的鸟类学知识应用到各种项目中。

be an ornithologist anymore, but that means I get to apply my ornithology knowledge into onto like projects and things.

我觉得这对我来说是一种真正的特权。

And I feel like that's a real privileged position for me.

偶尔我会在周末参加观鸟活动，听听你们这些我心目中真正的鸟类爱好者怎么说。

And occasionally I'll dip into weekend bird air and listen to your kind of, I suppose, what I think of as real bird people.

能重新思考一下，发现自己内心深处依然是一名鸟类学家，这感觉真好。

And it's kind of nice to be back on and thinking, no, I am still an ornithologist deep down in there.

它依然在那里。

It's still there.

我依然在做与鸟类相关的事情。

I'm still doing bird stuff.

但没错，只要你喜欢鸟，每个人都可以是鸟类学家。

But yeah, everyone's an ornithologist if you like birds.

我觉得

I think

这是需要记住的重要事情。

that's the important thing to remember.

当霍莉刚成为科学家时，她的研究重点是海鸟的迁徙。

When Holly first became a scientist, she focused her research on seabird migration.

海鸟在霍莉心中占有非常特殊的位置，因此她是我们讨论远洋观鸟之旅的完美嘉宾。

Seabirds hold a very special place in Holly's heart, so she's the perfect guest to talk to us about pelagic birdwatching trips.

在成为观鸟者之前，我从未听说过‘远洋’这个词。

Pelagic was not a word that I'd heard of before I became a birdwatcher.

如果这个词对你来说也是新的，那么这里解释一下它的含义。

So if it's new to you too, here is what it means.

我们所说的其实就是乘船出海度过漫长的一天。

So what we mean really is a big day out on a boat into the ocean.

一次远洋之旅通常意味着我们出海，专门寻找所谓的远洋海鸟。

So a pelagic trip usually means that we go out and we're looking specifically for what we would call pelagic seabirds.

这些是生活在远海、在我们所谓的近海水域中不常看到的海鸟。

So those are seabirds that occur way offshore and that you don't necessarily see very often in our what we would call coastal waters.

所以那是在离陆地几公里范围之内。

So that's within a few kilometers off land.

这是因为它们通常高度适应在开阔大洋中的生活。

This is because usually they're highly specialized for life right out in the open ocean.

它们可能根本不会。

They might well not might.

它们都会回到陆地上繁殖，但许多物种会在一些你可能永远无法到达的微型离岸岛屿上繁殖，这就是为什么我们很少见到它们。

They all come back to land to breed, but lots of them will breed on tiny offshore islands that you may never get to, which is why we don't see them very much.

但它们是我们最酷的鸟类之一。

But they're some of our absolute coolest birds.

所以通常的情况是，你前往一个海洋大陆架，这意味着你从布兰德直接向外航行，有时几乎是直线飞行。

So usually what happens is you go out to a marine shelf and what that means is you're heading kind of straight out from Bland, sometimes literally as the crow flies.

途中可能会有岛屿阻挡，那样的话你可能需要绕行它们。

There might be islands in the way, in which case you may wiggle around them.

但关键是，你要前往大陆架边缘、也就是它陡然下降进入深海的地方。

But the idea is you head up to essentially where the continental shelf drops off into the ocean.

海洋中的这些区域对海洋生产力至关重要，因为那里常常发生大量的混合和洋流活动。

And these areas in the ocean are really important for marine productivity because you often get a lot of mixing and currents occurring there.

通常正是在这些地方，你能发现这些令人惊叹的物种。

That's typically where you start to find these incredible species.

它们之所以在那里，是因为在洋流交汇、上升流以及冷水上涌的作用下，这里有各种各样的鱼类和其他海洋生物。

And they are there because they're foraging, because you get these kind of mixing of currents, some upwelling, some cold water flowing up, and there's all sorts of fish, all sorts of other marine life.

而这正是最佳的区域。

And that's kind of the sweet spot.

所以，远洋观鸟的有趣之处在于，你通常能同时看到沿海海鸟和远洋海鸟。

So what's cool about pelagic is it usually means that you get to see a combination of both those coastal seabirds and those offshore seabirds.

从你一上船的那一刻起，就能看到各种各样的生物。

So from the minute you get on the boat, you'll be able to see all sorts of different things.

通常会有一两位当地专家带领，他们会在船上留意观察各种迹象。

And usually they're led by one or two local experts and they'll be on the boat and they'll be keeping an eye out for things.

会有一些具备专业知识的人在各个方向仔细搜寻。

There'll be people with that expertise looking in all kind of directions.

通常情况下，当他们看到什么东西时，会大声喊出来，同时会有人记录下所有观察到的鸟类。

And normally what will happen is they'll call out and say when they're seeing something, someone will be keeping accounts of all of the birds seen.

通常每个人都很友好，会帮助你发现这些鸟类。

And typically everyone is very welcoming and will help you to kind of spot things.

如果你听到船另一侧的人喊：‘我刚看到有50只海燕在右舷前方！’

If you've heard someone on the other side of the boat go, oh, I just saw, you know, 50 Shearwaters off the starboard bow.

如果你没看到，他们也会花时间帮你指出来，‘我没看到它们’。

Then if you don't, well, I didn't see them, they'll take the time to make sure that they point that out.

当你登上一艘远洋观鸟船时，预计需要航行数小时才能到达大陆架边缘。

When you board a boat for a pelagic tour, expect to be sailing for a few hours until you reach the edge of the continental shelf.

大陆架是海洋中大陆的边缘部分。

The continental shelf is the edge of a continent under the ocean.

它从海岸线延伸至被称为大陆架坡折的地方，那里的海底会更陡峭地下降。

It extends from the coastline to what's called a shelf break, where the seafloor drops off more dramatically.

霍莉说，船通常会在这里减速甚至停下。

Holly says that it's usually here where the boat will slow right down or even stop.

有时候会发生什么，这取决于你和谁一起去。

What sometimes happens, it depends a little bit on who you're going with.

有些人会扔出一些东西，我听说叫

Some people will throw out, I've heard it

有各种不同的名称，但通常是鱼饵或诱饵，本质上是混合在一起的非常腥、油、臭、难闻的物质。

called lots of different things, but chum or burley, essentially some very fishy, oily, smelly, gross substances mixed up together.

他们会把这些东西倒入水中。

They'll put that into the water.

这样做的目的是让水面形成一种非常刺鼻的油膜。

And the idea is that that starts to create this kind of really smelly slick on top of the water.

我们很多远洋海鸟属于管鼻目海鸟。

And heaps of our pelagic seabirds are prosellariiform seabirds.

它们是管鼻海鸟，拥有极其灵敏的嗅觉。

So they're tubenose seabirds and they have incredible sense of smell.

原理就是把这种油膜倒入水中，然后就在那里等待。

And the idea is you get this slick into the water and then you just hang around there.

过一会儿，许多海鸟会被这种鱼油的气味吸引过来。

And after a while, lots of these seabirds come in because they're attracted by the smell of that fishy oil.

我认为鳕鱼肝油通常是这种混合物的重要成分。

I think cod liver oil is often a big part of the mixture.

所以你又要等上一段时间，通常几个小时，海鸟们就会飞来，你就能非常近距离地观察到一些非常酷的物种。

And so you'll wait for around for a while again, usually for a couple of hours, and the seabirds will come in and you'll start to get it, you know, really close sightings of some of these really cool species.

比如信天翁，包括大型和小型的信天翁，你可能听人称它们为‘摩尔步行者’，还有各种各样的海燕和剪水鹱。

So like albatrosses, both the big albatrosses and the smaller albatrosses, which you might hear people moly walks, lots of different sorts of petrols and shearwaters.

你基本上会在那里坐上一会儿。

And you'll essentially be sitting there for a bit.

你可能会看到鲸鱼，可能会看到海龟，也可能看到许多其他种类的海鸟。

You may get to see whales, you may get to see turtles, you may get to see a whole bunch of other different seabirds as well.

所以像鲣鸟、燕鸥之类的鸟也可能在那里。

So things like gannets might be out there too, terns.

人们会进行统计，观察各种鸟类的出现情况。

People will be counting and looking at the sort of species peaking.

过了一会儿，就会有一个明显的时刻，你不会再看到更多东西了，船会掉头，你们会驶回岸边。

And after a while, there'll be kind of an obvious time when you're not gonna get any more things, and the boat will turn around and you'll drive back to shore.

我们已经聊了很多

We've had a lot

关于观鸟的伦理问题，这个播客上有很多有趣的讨论。

of interesting chats on this podcast about the ethics of birdwatching.

听霍莉讲述他们如何将那种鱼腥物质抛入海中吸引鸟类，让我开始思考远洋观鸟之旅的伦理问题。

Listening to Holly talk about how they throw that fishy substance into the sea to attract birds makes me wonder about the ethics of pelagic tours.

这样做会对

Does doing this have negative impacts on

鸟类的自然行为、栖息地或福祉造成负面影响吗？

the birds' natural behavior or their habitat or well-being?

我认为，在远离海岸、位于数公里外这片广阔海域的背景下，实际投入水中的物质总量非常少。

I think in the context of being way I mean, we're talking about being way offshore, several kilometers out in this vast body of water, the actual amount of stuff that's going into the water is quite small.

因此，我认为这些食物残渣漂浮在水中并逐渐分解，并不会造成真正的麻烦。

So there's no real, I suppose, problem with those sorts of bits of food hanging around going off.

你知道，它会很快下沉到水柱中。

You know, it's going to very quickly start to sink down through the water column.

不客气地说，渔船一直在这样做。

Not to put too fine a point on it, but fishing vessels are doing this constantly.

它们不断把鱼内脏和其他东西扔出去。

They're constantly chucking out fish guts and things.

许多这类物种实际上已经学会跟随船只，以获取一些食物。

And lots of these species actually have learned to follow boats in order to get a bit of a feed.

这本身也带来了一些问题。

That in itself has got some issues with it.

我们许多远洋海鸟都因缠绕在渔线上而受到威胁，已经做了大量工作来改进布线方式，以尽量减少对鸟类的影响。

Have lots of our pelagic seabirds are threatened by entanglement with fishing lines, and there's been a lot of work going on to try and cut the way that we set lines and make sure that there's minimizing the impact on the birds.

这实际上是一个非常严重的问题，也是一个重大的立法议题。

And that is actually a really big problem, a really big legislative issue.

因此，我推测，鼓励鸟类跟随船只可能涉及一些伦理问题。

So that I suppose there's potentially ethical issues with, you know, encouraging birds to follow boats.

他们无论如何都会这么做。

They're going to do it anyway.

它们的嗅觉太灵敏了，你实际上是在给它们提供一点食物。

Their sense of smell is so good that you are providing them with a little bit of food.

所以我不认为它们会觉得自己白费了力气游到船边却得不到回报，我觉得这才会是个伦理问题。

So I don't think there's a kind of sense that they've wasted energy to get to the boat and that that that they're not rewarded, which I think would be a bit of an ethical problem.

如果你真的担心这构成了伦理问题，可以问问你所跟随的公司，他们当天的计划是什么，并和他们讨论这个问题。

If you are really concerned you feel like it's an ethical issue, you can ask the company you're going with, what their plans are for the day and talk to them about that.

而且，和船上的其他人聊聊这件事也是个好主意，因为我觉得这确实是我们讨论得不够多的问题。

And it's probably a good thing to chat to people in the boat about, too, because I do think it's something that's, you know, we don't talk about enough.

我认为这是一个非常值得考虑的问题，但我感觉这已经是普遍的做法了。

I think it is a really good consideration, but I feel like it's such regular practice.

与在陆地上创造一个新的食物来源不同，那里鸟类会聚集、依赖食物来源，甚至可能传播疾病。

And unlike with a food source, like a new feeding on land where you're creating this place where birds can congregate, become come to rely on a food source, potentially also spread disease.

这并不是同一种情况。

It's not really the same kind of thing.

这些远洋鸟类可能只在夏季每月最多出现一次。

These pelagics maybe only happen, you know, maximally, maybe once a month during the summer.

所以这并不是在创造一种鸟类会依赖的东西。

And so it's not like you're creating this thing that birds are coming to rely on.

我非常感谢霍莉帮助我们深入思考这个问题。

I really appreciate Holly helping us think this through.

我认为，在决定如何与鸟类互动时，定期检视我们的伦理观总是有益的。

I reckon it's always good to check-in on our ethics when we make decisions about how we wanna act around birds.

霍莉说，当你航行到远离海岸的深海时，你会被那里生活的海鸟所震撼，而且海洋的不同区域有不同的海鸟栖息。

Holly says that once you far out into the ocean, you'll be blown away by the seabirds that live there and that different parts of the ocean have different seabird residents.

例如，我们在澳大利亚远洋观鸟活动中看到的鸟类就非常不同。

The birds we see on pelagics around Australia, for example, are quite different.

所以你可能会看到，比如

So what you'll see from, say,

塔斯马尼亚著名的鹰鹰颈远洋观鸟活动，甚至维多利亚州和南澳大利亚州的远洋观鸟活动。

the very famous Eagle Hawk neck pelagic in Tasmania or even the Victorian and South Australian pelagics.

所以我整理了一个我所知道的物种列表。

So there's got like a little I formulated a little list of ones that names that I know exist.

还有一个链接，指向‘澳大利亚海鸟与远洋观鸟’的Facebook群组，如果你对这个感兴趣，我强烈推荐加入。

There's also a link as well to the seabeds and pelagics Australia Facebook group, which I highly recommend joining if you're interested in this at all.

这是个很好的查找地方。

It's a good place to look.

东南部的远洋观鸟活动是观察那些大型信天翁的绝佳地点。

So the South Eastern Pelargics are really good places to see those big albatross in particular.

在那里你很可能会遇到漂泊信天翁、北方皇家信天翁，以及许多不同种类的小型信天翁，比如西澳大利亚的莫利走鸟。

So that's where you're likely to come across things like Wandering Albatross, Northern Royal Albatross, lots of different species of the smaller albatrosses like molly walks off WA.

虽然信天翁的种类稍少一些，但你常常能非常清晰地看到一些巨型海燕、多种剪水鹱，以及一些不属于鹱形目的有趣海鸟，比如贼鸥。

There's slightly fewer albatross species, but you often get really great views of some things like giant petrels, things like lots of a few different shearwater species, some of our really interesting seabirds that sort of don't fit into that prosellariform category, like the skewers.

等一下。

Hang on a minute.

那是英国的说法。

That's a UK term.

我现在正努力回想在南半球时我们用的那个词是什么。

I'm trying now to remember what the word is when we're in the Southern Hemisphere.

我们稍后再回到这个问题。

We'll come back to that.

我经常这样。

I do this all the time.

正如你所知，我是在英国长大的，所以我已经忘了‘Hang on’怎么说。

As you can tell, I grew up in The UK, so I've forgotten what Hang on.

我这儿就有这本鸟类图鉴。

I've got the bird book right here.

贼鸥。

Jaegers.

就是这样。

There you go.

或者叫贼鸥。

Or Jaegers.

到了。

Got there.

我到了。

I got there.

嗯。

Yeah.

人们会交替使用这个术语。

People will use that term interchangeably.

所以这些是一些会偷窃其他鸟类猎物的寄生性鸟类。

So those are some of the kleptoparasitic birds that steal other birds, prey and things like this.

你可能会在华盛顿州附近看到一些，还有许多风暴海燕。

You might get some of those off of WA and lots of the storm petrels.

如果你前往昆士兰，可能会进行我们所说的热带远洋观鸟，那时你会看到完全不同的剪水鹱和信天翁种类，还有一些有趣的海鸥和玄燕鸥。

If you go off of Queensland and you might end up doing what we would call a tropical pelagic, and then you'll see kind of completely different set of different Shearwater and Albatross species and also some interesting terns and noddies.

但在新南威尔士州，由于你处于中间位置，且根据季节不同，你可能会看到一些热带海鸟，以及一些最南端的海鸟，比如信天翁等。

But then in New South Wales, because you're kind of in the middle and depending on the season, you might get some of those tropical seabirds, but some of those most kind of southern seabirds that albatrosses and things as well.

所以这真是五花八门。

So it's a real mixed bag.

我想我想要表达的是，出发前稍微做些准备是值得的。

I guess what I'm saying here is it's worthwhile preparing a little bit before you go.

在船上会有一些真正的专家，他们经常出海进行远洋观鸟，对海鸟了如指掌。

When you're on the boat, there'll be some absolute experts there who go out on pelages because it's their thing and they go constantly and they know the seabirds really, really, really well.

但海鸟识别，尤其是某些剪水鹱和海燕，真的非常困难，我认为这可能是我们遇到过最难辨识的种类之一。

But seabird ID, especially the some of the shearwaters and petrels is really tricky that I'd say possibly some of the hardest that we have.

你知道，我们有那些小小的棕色鸟，还有shorebirds，但海鸟几乎都是不同程度的黑白色或灰度。

You know, we've got the little brown birds, we've got the shorebirds as well, but seabirds are almost all black and white to some degree of shades of gray in between.

而且它们几乎总是在移动。

And they're almost always moving.

所以它们不会乖乖地站定让你进行诊断性观察。

So they're not necessarily standing still nicely for a diagnostic.

因此，我的做法是查看以往的观鸟记录清单。

And so my approach to this has been to kind of have a look at previous trip lists.

所以大多数远洋观鸟活动都会发布一份他们观察到的物种清单，如果有些活动在不同季节出海，他们还会提供不同的季节性清单。

So most of the pelagic will publish a little list of the things that they've seen and they might if there's some if there are a place that goes out in different seasons, they'll have kind of different season lists.

因此他们会告诉你可能看到些什么。

And so they'll tell you bit about what you might expect to see.

然后翻翻你的鸟类图鉴，稍微了解一下这些鸟长什么样。

Then go in your bird guide and have a little look around to see, you know, well, what do those things look like?

它们的体型差异有多大？

What sort of is the size difference?

因为你会遇到大型的、中型的，还有非常非常小的种类。

Because you've got sort of the big things and the middle sized things and then the very, very, very tiny things, too.

这能让你大致了解你正在观察的是什么。

That'll give you an idea of like roughly what you're looking at.

如果你真的特别热衷，还可以深入研究一些Facebook群组。

And then if you're really nerdy, you can dig into one of the Facebook groups.

我想我之前提到过海鸟和远洋观鸟的Facebook群组。

And I think I mentioned the seabirds and pelagic Facebook group.

上面有些人每次出海观鸟时都会拍照并上传到那里。

And there are people on there who've, you know, taking photos every time they go on a pelagic and putting them up there.

然后评论区里会有人争论，那究竟是哪种剪水鹱，哪一种羽毛或喙的形状表明它可能是这种信天翁或那种信天翁。

And then there'll be little debates in the comments around whether that's a specific type of shearwater and which which plumage indicates or which beak shape indicates it might be this albatross or that albatross.

比如，我小时候，所有漂泊信天翁都只是统称为漂泊信天翁。

For example, when I was a child, all wandering albatrosses were just wandering albatrosses.

但现在，漂泊信天翁已经被细分成了四到五种不同的物种。

But now there's like four or five different species of wandering albatross that have been split.

但如果你翻看鸟类图鉴，它们看起来几乎一模一样。

But if you look in the bird book, they kind of look the same.

所以，提问完全没问题，尽管不断提问吧，人们会很乐意为你指出这些细节。

So it's totally okay to ask and and and keep asking and people will love pointing things out to you.

提前做一些研究，了解你可能会看到什么。

So do a bit of research about what you might see.

别担心去问别人，因为这正是我们所有人学习的方式。

Don't worry about asking people because that's how we all learn.

而且通常那里每个人都对看到海鸟非常兴奋。

And usually everyone out there is just very excited about seeing seabirds.

所以他们不会介意你停下来问：‘等等，刚才那是啥？’

So they're not going to be they're not going to mind if you say, hang on a minute, what was that again?

我该怎么区分那个东西呢？

And how do I tell the difference between that thing?

如果你真的深入进去，就会有一些专门的海鸟向导，你知道的，就是那里的观鸟向导。

And if you get really into it, then there are some specialists, just seabird guides, you know, bird guides out there.

但你知道，也许先参加一次远洋观鸟活动，看看你是否喜欢，再决定是否购买太多观鸟指南。

But, you know, maybe go on a pelagic first and see if you enjoy it before investing in too many bird guides.

我把远洋观鸟地点列表放在了节目笔记中，还附上了‘澳大利亚海鸟与远洋观鸟’Facebook群组的链接。

I've put the pelagic location list in the show notes and also a link to the Seabirds and Pelagics Australia Facebook group.

霍莉说她有过许多难忘的远洋观鸟之旅，包括她第一次参加时的那次，

Holly says that she's had many memorable pelagic trips, including the first time that she ever went on one, which

从维多利亚州西南部的波特费里镇出发。

left from the town of Port Ferry in Southwest Victoria.

那是我第一次真正近距离看到这么多不同的信天翁物种。

It was the first time I really got to see the a whole load of different albatross species really close to the boat.

我以前见过信天翁。

So I'd I'd seen albatrosses before.

我曾经进行过海上观鸟，也去过新西兰达尼丁的信天翁栖息地。

I'd been sea watching, And I also visited the colony in Dunedin over in New Zealand.

第一次看到 shy 信天翁、印度黄鼻信天翁和黑眉信天翁。

The first time kind of seeing a shy albatross, an Indian yellow nosed albatross, a black brow albatross.

我知道它们的头部羽毛尤其漂亮。

I knew that they're especially that the head plumage is so stunning.

能亲眼看到它们，一想到这个，我都有点哽咽了。

Being able to see it in person, actually just thinking about it, I'm getting a little bit choked up.

它们实在太美了。

They are so beautiful.

而这些鸟中的一些，其实是人。

And some of those birds are people.

以前用过‘莫莉 mocks’这个说法。

Used the term molly mocks before.

它们不是那种大型的信天翁。

They're not the big, big albatrosses.

人们有时会有些轻视，尤其是像黑眉信天翁这样的种类，它们在澳大利亚并不常见，但它们实在太美了。

And people can sometimes be a bit dismissive, especially things like blackbrowed albatross, which do turn up quite regularly, not for Australia, but getting they're just so beautiful.

而且它们常常因为体型庞大，不会在船周围盘旋。

And they're often because they're so big and they're not flying around the boat.

它们飞进来，落在水面上。

They've come in and they've landed on the water.

所以你可以长时间观察它们，欣赏那令人惊叹的眼妆，以及头部羽毛柔和美丽的灰色渐变。

So you'll be able to watch them for a really long time and just enjoy seeing that incredible eye makeup and the beautiful, soft, like gray gradients they have in their head plumage.

那真是非常特别。

That was that was very special.

另一个令人难忘的时刻是，我去了西澳珀斯海沟的一次航行，那是在夏天，通常并不是观察多种鸟类的好时节。

And then the other memorable moment was I went on a trip off the Perth Canyon here in WA, and it was a summer, which isn't typically a very good time to see lots of species.

我们陷入了一片白脸海燕和海燕的密集群体中。

And we got stuck in, I would say, this absolute cloud of white faced storm petrels and storm petrels.

对于那些以前没遇到过这些海燕的人来说，最小的那种体型和麻雀差不多，白脸海燕稍大一点，但大不了多少。

For those who haven't come across these bears before, the smallest of them around the size of a sparrow at white faced normative, which is a little bit bigger than that, but not a lot.

这些鸟类一生都在开阔的海洋上度过。

And these birds spend their entire lives out in the open ocean.

它们就是这些小小的、扑腾着的东西，主要通过在水面上弹跳来觅食。

They just are these little fluttery things and they feed essentially by bouncing bouncing off off the the surface surface of of the the water.

水。

Water.

所以它们本质上是在水面上弹跳。

And And so so they they essentially bounce on the water.

当它们抓到一点点食物时，有时是一只小虾，或是一点点浮游生物之类的东西。

And then when they grab like a tiny bit of, sometimes it's a little prawn or a tiny little bit of plankton or something like that.

它们飞过来，到处都是，围绕着船在水面上不停地弹跳。

They came in and they were just everywhere bouncing and bouncing, bouncing all around the boat off the surface of the water.

对我来说，这无疑是最神奇的时刻。

And it was the most magical thing for me anyway.

我忍不住笑了起来。

I was kind of just laughing.

我玩得非常开心。

I was so I was enjoying myself so much.

真是太棒了。

It was wonderful.

这对我来说真是特别的一刻。

Really a really special moment for me.

并不算罕见。

Not very rare.

你几乎在任何地方都能看到白脸海燕，但看到它们觅食、观察它们这种行为，却是一次非常美好的体验——这正是我喜爱观鸟的原因：总能看见鸟类做它们自己的事情。

You pretty much see white faced orbitals everywhere, but a really nice moment to see them foraging and seeing them doing that behavior, which is one of the things I I enjoy about bird watching is always just seeing birds do their thing.

如果你想观看霍莉的远洋影像，请关注我在Facebook或Instagram上的账号“Weekend Doc Birder”本周内容。

If you wanna see some of Holly's pelagic footage, follow me at weekend doc birder on Facebook or Instagram this week.

我会分享一些她的视频。

I'll share some of her videos.

我决定问霍莉一个非常随机的问题，因为我很喜欢听她滔滔不绝地谈论海鸟。

I've decided to ask Holly a really random question because I love hearing her gush about seabirds.

我的问题是，如果你能变成任何一种海鸟，你会选择哪一种？

My question is, if you could be any seabird, which one would you be?

这是我特别反感的事情。

Sort of pet hate of mine.

人们总是说：‘你最喜欢的鸟是什么？’

People are like, oh, what's your favorite bird?

我就想：‘你指的是今天吗？’

And I'm like, what do you mean just today?

因为真的很难选出一种来。

Because I can't it's hard to name one.

但要是非得选一只鸟的话，我想我会想变成灰头信天翁。

But thinking about what birdie would be, I think I would like to be a gray headed albatross.

所以这是南半球。

So that's a Southern hemisphere.

大多数信天翁是一个物种，但它特别出名，因为它们会环绕南极洲飞行，有些个体据说能在四十天或四十六天左右完成环航，这真是了不起的壮举，尤其是当你想到那片海域的状况时。

Well, most albatrosses is a species, but it's particularly famous because they circumnavigate Antarctica and some individuals have been known to navigate Antarctica in like forty days or forty six days or something like that, which is just an incredible feat, especially when you think about the what the sea is like out there.

那是一片充满风暴、狂野不羁的海洋荒原。

It's just this kind of volatile storm ridden wilderness of ocean.

我觉得我现在可能去不了南极了。

I feel like I'm probably not going to make it to Antarctica now.

我年轻时从事更多海底工作，那时或许觉得这是有可能的。

I thought maybe I would when I was younger and doing more seabed work and maybe that was on the cards.

但如果我能成为一只环绕南极洲飞行的海鸟，那会很不错。

But if I could be a seabird that circumnavigates Antarctica, that would be pretty good.

我只是想象着在那次旅程中我会看到的一切。

And I just think about all the things I would see on that journey.

那一定会非常棒。

It would be amazing.

会非常开心。

Be very happy.

你能安排一下吗？

Can you arrange that?

那真有趣。

That was fun.

我以后可能会再问这个随机的问题。

I might ask that random question again in the future.

我非常喜欢听人们谈论信天翁，我百分百想做一期专门关于它们的节目。

I love hearing people talk about Albatross, and I a 100% need to do an episode just on them.

聊了这么多出色的海鸟，我在想，人们在参加远洋观鸟游时会不会拿出双筒望远镜。

With all this chat about awesome seabirds, I'm wondering if people pull out their binoculars when they're on a pelagic tour.

我会说，当海鸟开始靠近时，使用望远镜真的很有帮助，因为它们需要一段时间才能靠近船。

I would say, you know, it can be really helpful to use the binoculars as the beds are starting to come in because it can take them a while to get close to the boat.

远洋观鸟的一大好处是，总会有那么一刻，你不再需要望远镜，只需坐着享受这一切。

One of the great things about a pelagic is it's one of the places where at some point you won't need binoculars and you just sit and enjoy yourself.

但当它们靠近时，我会适度使用望远镜。

But as they're coming in, I would use your binoculars in small doses.

所以先站稳，适应船的轻微晃动，然后通常使用望远镜，但每次只用几秒钟。

So get yourself a really firm stance, get used to how the boat's moving a little bit and then usually binoculars, but use them for just a few seconds at a time.

把望远镜放下来。

Bring them back down.

重新对准地平线。

You get the horizon set again.

短暂地使用，如果它们让你开始感到晕船，那就别用了，耐心一点。

Use them for a small and, you know, if they're starting to make you feel a bit seasick, then just don't and be patient.

我建议先照顾好你的身体健康，因为一旦你开始感到严重不适，就很难再缓解了。

Look after your physical wellness first, I would say, because once you start to feel really sick, it can be really hard to stop feeling sick.

所以，是的，慢慢来，每次短暂使用一下。

So, yeah, take take your time and then small bursts.

相机也一样，可能也需要一些时间来适应。

Certainly also the camera can take some getting used to as well.

如果你打算再次拍照，要适应船的晃动。

If you're planning to do some photography again, get used to that motion of the boat.

你可能不需要特别长的镜头。

You might not need a really long lens.

记住这一点，因为鸟类会经常在船周围飞舞。

Keep that in mind because the birds will be flying around the boat a lot.

我自己并不是摄影专家，但你可能更适合使用可以变焦的镜头，而不是固定超长焦的，因为有时候鸟会飞得比你预期的更近。

I'm not a photography expert myself, but you might be better off with something that will allow you to zoom in and out rather than being fixed with something that's really long because, you know, at some point the bird's gonna be closer than you, you need it to be.

这样你就能快速应对鸟类位置的变化。

And that way you could react quickly to the changing position of the birds.

当你出海观鸟时，因为大家都很兴奋，每个人都会带上某种光学设备。

When you go out on a pelagic, because everyone's got excited and, you know, everyone's bringing some kind of an optic with them.

也可能有人愿意借给你一些设备。

And there may be people who are willing to let you borrow bits of equipment, too.

所以，也请记住这一点。

So, you know, keep that in mind as well.

如果运气不好，驶向大陆架边缘的过程可能会有点枯燥，尤其是在近海水域没什么可看的日子里，但这时却有很多机会与人们聊聊他们带了什么装备，以及他们打算如何使用，特别是那些有经验的远洋观鸟者。

There's also the kind of very can be a little bit boring bit of driving out to the shelf edge if you get unlucky and it's a day where there's not much around in the coastal waters, there's plenty of opportunity to talk to people about what we've brought with them, how they're planning to use it, especially if they're experienced pelagics.

你知道，床网爱好者们总是乐于分享他们的经验和装备设置，即使你并没有主动问他们。

And you know what bed nets are like, love sharing their like set up at their experience even if sometimes you don't ask them to.

我有内耳问题，所以在船上表现得很糟糕。

I have this inner ear thing, which means that I'm pretty rubbish on boats.

我很容易晕船。

I get seasick so easily.

事实上，我曾经和朋友内尔在霍巴特平静的水面上划皮划艇时都晕船了。

In fact, I once got seasick kayaking with my mate, Nell, on flat water in Hobart.

太丢人了。

So embarrassing.

所以，我个人一想到远洋观鸟之旅就会感到相当焦虑。

So personally, the idea of a pelagic trip makes me feel quite anxious.

如果你也有这种感觉，霍莉有一些给你的建议。

And if you're feeling that way too, Holly has some advice for you.

我肯定会晕船。

I would definitely anticipate seasickness.

现在，要记住的关键是，每个人都会晕船。

Now, the important thing to remember about seasickness is it's absolutely everybody will get seasick.

这完全取决于海况有多糟，以及你什么时候开始晕船。

It just is dependent on how bad the sea state is, which point you get seasick.

所以，任何晕船的人都不应该觉得这有什么弱点或类似的问题。

So anyone who gets seasick should not feel in any way that there is a weakness or anything like that.

你知道，每个人都会晕船。

You know, everyone will get seasick.

我以前总是以为，我从不晕船。

I was someone who was like, I never get seasick.

我多年来一直在研究远洋海鸟，经常出海，从来都没晕过船。

I've I've worked on pelagic seabirds for several years, been out on boats and you never got seasick.

但终于有一天，我在一艘近海小船的船舱里，正想换下湿衣服，船在摇晃，我正蜷缩在那个小角落里。

And then finally, one day was in the tiny cabin of a boat just offshore trying to change out of some wet clothes and the boat was rolling around and I was right down in this little hole.

所以我完全分不清上下左右，正努力从湿牛仔裤里挣扎出来，突然意识到自己开始感到一种奇怪的恶心感。

So I had no perception of what was up and what was down and trying to struggle out some wet jeans and suddenly realized that I was starting to experience this, like, strange kind of nausea sensation.

心想，哦，原来如此。

Was like, oh, okay.

来了。

There it is.

来了。

There it is.

晕船了，真的来了。

The seasickness, it is there.

所以即使你觉得自己从不晕船，也可能会发生在你身上。

So even if you are like, I never get seasick, it might happen to you.

所以提前做好准备。

So anticipate it.

如果你知道这可能是个问题，有一些非常好的通用建议。

There's some really good general advice if you know this might be an issue.

所以待在船的后部，因为那里通常是最稳定的位置。

So stay near the back of the boat, because that's typically the most stable location.

待在船外。

Stay outside.

所以不要被诱惑进入船舱。

So don't be tempted to go into the cabin.

通常，人们感觉最糟的时候是船停止移动，只在波浪中晃动时。

And then usually the worst time for people is when the boat stops moving and you're just in the swell.

那种缓慢的上下起伏运动，真的会让人感到不适。

And it's that slow up and down swooping motion that can really make people feel a bit ill.

所以如果你遇到这种情况，船停了，尽量盯着地平线看。

So if you're doing that, if the boat stops, try and keep your eye on the horizon.

本质上，你的前庭系统无法理解这种运动状态。

Essentially, what's happening is your vestibular system can't understand what's going on with the motion.

所以如果你能盯着地平线，这能帮助你的大脑获得足够的信息，判断自己在空间中的位置。

So if you can keep your eye on the horizon, that can help a little bit with kind of giving your brain enough information to say, okay, this is where I am in relation to space.

也要试着保持积极的想法。

Try and think positive thoughts as well.

如果你周围有人晕船，而你知道这会触发你自己的不适感，那么如果可能的话，尽量远离他们。

If you are around people who are getting sick and you know that that's a bit of a trigger for your own feelings of being sick, then obviously try and move away from them if you can.

如果船够大的话。

If the boat's big enough.

我还想推荐一些其他方法，你知道，你们会在外面待一整天。

Some other things that I would recommend is, you know, you're going to be out for a long day.

你需要带些食物，选择一些可以少量多次吃的。

You will need to take some food with you, Take things that you can nibble.

一次只吃一点点。

So just a little bit at a time.

姜饼、姜汁啤酒也是不错的选择。

Ginger biscuits, ginger beer is also another good one.

没错。

Absolutely.

如果你预感到自己会晕船，可以考虑在安全的前提下服用一些非处方药。

If you're anticipating that you have trouble sickness, maybe get some over the counter drugs if you can be careful.

有些药会让你犯困。

Some of them are will make you drowsy.

而当你在外面时，这实际上可能会让情况变得更糟。

So and that actually can make things a little bit worse when you're out there.

我建议你远离鱼饵。

I would recommend staying away from the burley.

当这片远洋区域即将开始时，人们通常会提醒你。

People will usually warn you when that bit of the pelagic is going to happen.

所以请远离鱼饵。

So stay away from the burley.

它有点臭。

It's a bit stinky.

因此，我建议你不要带金枪鱼三明治去。

And I wouldn't take tuna sandwiches with you for that reason.

你最不想做的就是，在一直闻着鱼腥味的时候还吃些有鱼腥味的东西。

The last thing you want is something fishy to eat when you've been smelling something fishy.

我觉得，你可以跟身边的人聊聊，因为说实话，我还没在任何一次远海航行中见过没人晕船的情况。

I think just, you know, talk to the people around you because I've not again, I've not been on a pelagic where people haven't been poorly.

所以，你知道的，每个人总会经历一段时间的不适，这很正常。

So, you know, everyone always suffers at some point and it's okay and it's normal.

所以别觉得难为情。

So don't feel embarrassed.

跟大家坦诚相待。

Be open with people.

船上可能有人能帮上你。

And there might be people on board who can help you.

他们或许能给你一些建议或指个地方。

You know, they might have some advice or some location.

你也可以跟船长谈谈，看看能不能调整船的方向，让你少受些海浪颠簸。

You might be able to talk to the skipper as well about orientating the boat so that you're not getting as much of that swell.

通常当海浪从侧面拍打船体时，船会变得特别不稳。

Often if the swells hitting the boat side, that's when it could get really tippy.

所以，你可以跟大家说，嘿，我有点不舒服。

So saying, you know, hey, I'm struggling a bit.

我们能不能把船头对准海浪的方向？

Can we maybe point the boat in the direction of the swell?

这样可以帮助稳定船身。

And that can help stabilize things.

其他一些事项也很重要。

Other things are important.

要穿保暖的衣物，因为海上通常比陆地上冷得多。

Warm layers, because it's often much cooler out there in the ocean than it is on land.

但你还需要一顶遮阳帽、防晒霜，可能还需要太阳镜，因为海上完全没有遮挡。

But you also will want a sun hat and sunscreen and probably sunglasses because obviously there's no cover at all.

即使在冬天，如果你幸运地遇到一个晴朗的日子，长时间暴露在阳光下，那种阳光也会感觉非常强烈。

And even in winter, that sunshine out there, if you're lucky and you get a really sunny day, can feel really kind of intense after a a full day outside.

所以一定要好好照顾这一点。

So definitely look after that.

我仍然不确定鹈鹕是否适合我，但听了霍莉的建议后，我感觉更有信心了。

I'm still not sure if pelargics are for me, but I'm feeling a bit more confident after listening to Holly's advice.

我接触过很多热爱鸟类和摄影的人，他们非常喜欢鹈鹕，迫不及待想参加下一次观鸟活动。

I've spoken to heaps of bird lovers and photographers who adore pelargics and can't wait to go on their next one.

所以听起来，一些不舒服的时刻被整个体验所超越了。

So it sounds like some uncomfortable moments are outweighed by the whole experience.

在霍莉去继续她的重要工作之前，我很想知道她接下来的观鸟体验是什么。

Before Holly heads off to do more of her important work, I'm curious to know what birdwatching experience is up next for her.

我们发现可以将两种兴趣结合起来。

We discovered that there is this combining two two interests at once.

我们发现圣诞岛上有一场马拉松。

We discovered that there is a marathon on Christmas Island.

所以明年，我们希望能去圣诞岛参加马拉松，同时我计划在那里留出一些时间观鸟。

So next year, we're hoping to go and do the marathon on Christmas Island, and I'm planning to have a have some time up there birding.

我很少参加观鸟旅行，但这次机会太好了，不能错过。

I don't often go on birding trips, but this is too good an opportunity to to miss.

所以，是的，我要去圣诞岛，去看看那些热带海鸟、一些热带鸟、一些军舰鸟和一些鲣鸟。

So, yeah, head going to head up to Christmas Island, going to see some of those tropical seabirds, some of the tropic birds, some of the frigate birds, some of the boobies.

对这些我非常期待。

Pretty excited about some of that.

而且，是的，这将是接下来最令人兴奋、最迫在眉睫的事情。

And, yeah, that's sort of the next excitement and the more more immediately.

我有很多朋友要从东海岸来珀斯参加澳大利亚鸟类学大会。

I've got lots of friends coming over from the East Coast to Perth for the Australian Orthology Conference.

我非常期待向这些朋友展示我们一些独特的城市鸟类。

I'm really looking forward to showing off some of our special urban birds to some of those friends.

所以，我也很期待找出那些漂亮的 fairy wrens，确保每个人都明白它们和华丽的种类一样出色。

So, yeah, gonna also be just looking looking forward to digging out some splendid fairy wrens making sure everyone knows they're just as good as the superb ones.

霍莉提到的这次大会是澳大拉西亚鸟类学大会。

The conference that Holly is talking about is the Australasian ornithological.