128 自然之人 - 与塞萨尔同行

我想致敬今天我录制所在地的原住民。

I'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land in which I'm recording today.

这里是贾盖拉、贾盖拉和尤加拉普尔人的传统土地。

It's the traditional land of the Jagera, Jagera, and Yugarapur people.

传统上，这片区域被称为图尔莫。

And, traditionally, this area is called Turmo.

我来自墨尔本东南部布努龙布恩龙人的土地。

I'm coming to you from the lands of the Bunurong Boonrung people of Southeast Melbourne.

这是一个非常了不起的国家。

This is a really amazing country.

这里有海滩、沙丘、丛林、湿地和辽阔的天空。

It's got beaches and sand dunes and bushland and wetlands and big skies.

生活和工作在这片土地上是一种莫大的荣幸，我想向过去的和现在的长者致以敬意。

It's such a privilege to live and work on this country, and I would like to pay my respect to elders past and present.

你好，凯撒，我的朋友。

So hello, Caesar, my friend.

能再次和你在一起真是太好了。

It is so nice to be with you again.

我亲爱的朋友，基尔斯蒂。

My wonderful friend, Kirsty.

这感觉怎么样？

How good is this?

我超爱做这个。

I love doing this.

我觉得我现在可能是最常出现的嘉宾了。

This is like, I might be the most frequently recurring guest now.

没错。

Truth.

但你知道吗？

But you know what?

人们喜欢，那就给人们他们喜爱和想要的东西。

The people love it and give the people what they love and what they want.

你知道吗？

You know?

哦，真的吗？

Oh, really?

嗯，是的。

Yeah.

嗯，是的。

Yeah.

听起来不错。

That sounds good.

我们唯一一次面对面聚会时并没有录音，我反而挺喜欢这样，因为我觉得有时候和志同道合的人相处，不必非得在面前放个麦克风、制造内容，反而更自在。

The and the only time we've ever hung out in person, we didn't record it, which I kind of love because I think it's like it's kinda nice sometimes to hang out with with, you know, like minded people without the pretense of having to put a microphone in front of us and create content.

我同意。

I agree.

让我们活在现实世界里，而不是网络世界中。

Let's live in the real world and not on the online world.

不过，你一直是我线上的好友。

Although, you have been my online buddy for a long time.

有些人会看。

And some people look.

如果他们一直躲在石头底下，就不会知道你是谁。

If they've been hiding under a rock, they won't know who you are.

但如果他们一直在外面，就会知道。

But if they've been out in the world, they do.

但为了以防万一，你能跟我们介绍一下你自己吗？

But just in case, can you tell us about you?

所以，如果他们以前从未见过你，你究竟是怎样的人？

So if they've never met you before, what what are you about?

嗯，首先，我一些最亲密的朋友就住在石头底下，所以我们说话得小心点。

Well, firstly, some of my, closest friends live under rocks, so, we have to be careful what we say.

但，没错。

But, yeah.

我是凯撒·皮尔斯·马林。

So I'm Caesar Pearce Marin.

我是一名野生动物兽医。

I'm a wildlife veterinarian.

我是一名播客主持人，我想是这样。

I'm a podcaster, I suppose.

而且，我也是一名野生动物摄影师。

And, I also I've just I am a wildlife photographer.

我想这大概概括了我所有的工作。

I think that kinda sums it up.

这概括了我所做的一切。

That sums up everything that I do.

我喜欢你这么说‘我是一名播客主持人，我想是这样’，因为你主持着两个不同的播客。

I love how you said I'm a podcaster, I suppose, as you host two different podcasts

是的。

Yeah.

那就是被烧死，还有所有动物。

Which is death by burning and every animal ever.

你却说，是啊。

And you're saying, yeah.

我想我确实是个播客主持人。

I guess I'm a podcaster.

你有两个播客呢，老兄。

You have two podcasts, dude.

是啊。

Yeah.

不过，作为一个30岁的白人男性做播客，还是挺丢脸的。

It's there's a lot of shame in being a 30 year old white man doing a podcast, though.

我觉得你根本不用说出来。

I think that you it I almost didn't have to say it.

这都是理所当然的。

It's just expected.

嗯。

Yeah.

但你真的深入做了这一点，而且还做了另一个。

But you really leaned in on that, and you you got another one.

所以，是的，我非常喜欢这一点。

So, yeah, I love that so much.

我要加倍投入。

I'm doubling down.

所以给我们讲讲这些厕所，它们有什么不同。

So tell us a bit about the potties and what makes them different.

嗯。

Yeah.

所以当我开始做《观鸟致死》时，我真以为它会更像一个喜剧播客，一个喜剧式的观鸟播客。

So I guess when I started Death by Birding, I I really thought it was gonna be more of a a comedy podcast, like a comedy bird watching podcast.

在很多方面，它现在仍然是。

And in many ways, still is.

当我做现场演出时，就是这样。

And when I did the live shows, it was.

但我其实逐渐意识到，这越来越像一个对话类播客。

But I really I sort of I realized that it was becoming more of just like a conversation podcast.

我不希望总是试图制造笑点来掩盖内容，虽然这样做确实很有诱惑力。

And I I didn't wanna sort of smother the the content with just always trying to make punch lines, which is something that is, you know, it is sort of it's tempting to do.

总是试图用小笑话来开头结尾确实很有诱惑力，但有时候这其实并不必要。

It's tempting to always try and bookend things with with little gags and little jokes and sometimes that's not really necessary.

另外一点是，‘Death by Birding’本应是关于鸟类的。

And the other thing is as well is death by birding is supposed to be about birds.

而我却谈了很多其他动物。

And I was talking a lot about other animals.

所以我想，为什么不做一个关于地球上所有生物的播客呢？

So I thought, you know, why don't I do a podcast about every single one in existence?

这就是我和扎克·曼达一起做的使命，他是一位喜剧演员兼广播主持人。

And that that's our mission with I do that with Zach Manda who's like a comedian radio presenter.

而且，没错，这非常有趣。

And, yeah, that's been a lot of fun.

它非常不同。

It's very different.

氛围完全不一样。

It's a very different vibe.

但我很喜欢。

I love it, though.

我的意思是，它们不同，各有各的好处。

I mean, they're different they're great for different reasons.

你知道的，我是你的头号粉丝，所以我们就不讨论周末布达听众们为我加油的事了。

And, you know, I'm your number one fan, so we won't discuss Weekend Burda listeners by me cheering you on.

但它们都很棒。

But they're great.

如果有人还没听过，他们应该去听听。

And if people haven't heard them, they should.

你一直对鸟类摄影很感兴趣。

You've always been into bird photography.

然后，我的朋友，你成了作家。

And then, my friend, you've become an author.

所以给我们讲讲这本书吧。

So tell us all about the book.

是的。

Yeah.

我不知道该怎么说，我不喜欢这样，但我觉得我的整个职业生涯就是一直在说服别人让我做那些我根本没资格做的事。

I don't know how that I don't like, I feel like my whole career has just been, like, talking people into letting me do things that I have absolutely no right doing.

上兽医学校就是其中之一，现在这本书也是。

Vet school was one of them, and then now this, yeah, this book.

几年前，我有了一个想法，想写一本或拍一本关于澳大利亚自然学家的书，那些不仅在科学前沿，也在自然主义领域最前沿的人。

A few years ago, I had this idea of writing or photographing a book about Australian naturalists and the people that are sort of at the forefront of not only science, but just naturalism in general.

因为我觉得，有时候我们会忘记，插图也可以是科学。

Because I think that sometimes, you know, we forget that illustration can be science.

我们忘记了关怀也可以是科学。

We forget that caring can be science.

所以，这些都是我们欣赏和热爱自然的方式。

So, you know, these are all ways that we can appreciate and love nature.

我在与我交往的社群中看到了很多多样性。

And I I saw a lot of diversity in that in the community I was hanging out with.

但我在这些自然主义者形象的代表中，却没有看到多少多样性，你知道，当我们想到自然主义者，或者想到那些老派、刻板的科学家形象——那些在尘封图书馆里的人，我其实非常喜爱那样的场景。

But I wasn't seeing a lot of, I suppose, diversity in that representation, you know, when we think of naturalists or if we think of this, like, old stuffy image of, you know, these scientists in the, you know, in the dusty libraries that I do actually love a lot.

但我觉得那些并没有什么不对。

But and I don't think there's anything wrong with those.

我只是觉得它们并不一定代表整个社群的全貌。

I just think that it wasn't necessarily representative of the community as a whole.

有很多非常酷、有趣、了不起的人正在做着很多有益的工作。

And there are lots of really cool, interesting, wonderful people doing a lot of good work.

我只是想找到一种方式来庆祝这些。

And, I just wanted a way of celebrating that.

最近，我们失去了杰出的珍·古道尔。

Recently, we lost the wonderful Jane Goodall.

实际上，我想是因为那些照片。

And actually, it was one I think it was those photos.

是珍·古道尔的照片、阿滕伯勒的照片，还有我非常喜爱的杰拉尔德·达雷尔的照片，以及所有这些老一辈自然学家的影像，看到这些极具戏剧性的肖像时，我就想，我能不能也为现代自然学家拍出类似的作品。

It was photos of Jane Goodall and photos of Attenborough and photos of, you know, Gerald Darrell, whom I love, and all of these old naturalists and seeing these really dramatic portraits and thinking, oh, I wonder if I could create those but for modern naturalists.

这正是最初的灵感来源。

And that was kind of the the inspiration.

于是，事情就这样逐渐发展起来了。

And so, yeah, it kinda snowballed.

五年来，我开始拍摄这些照片，并向不同的出版社推介，最终被西蒙与舒斯特旗下的艾菲姆出版社采纳了。

Over five years, I started just shooting it and and I started pitching it to different publishers and Affirm Press who are now a subsidiary of Simon and Schuster picked it up.

在我兽医学校的最后一年，我写了这本书，并在澳大利亚各地拍摄了照片。

And, yeah, in my last year of vet school, I I I wrote the book and photographed it around Australia.

我不确定同时兼顾这两件事，哪一边受到的影响更大。

And I I don't know which got impacted the most from trying to juggle those two things.

但别太仔细看我的成绩。

But, yeah, don't look at my grades too closely.

嗯。

Yeah.

哦，你做得太棒了，这本书简直不可思议。

Oh, you managed to do an amazing job, and the book is incredible.

对于还没看过的人，这本书叫什么名字？你为什么这么命名？

For someone who hasn't seen it yet, what is it called, and why did you call it that?

嗯。

Yeah.

所以，这个名字有点来历，它叫《自然之人》，我知道里面有个标语，但我一时想不起来了。

So, the name has a bit of a backstory because I it's called nature people, and I know there's a tagline in there, but I don't remember it off the top of my head.

但书上并没有印出来。

But it's not on the book anywhere.

我知道宣传材料里有，但书上没写，所以我马上就忘了。

I know it's in the publicity, but it's not written on the book, so I've forgotten immediately.

它最初原本打算命名为《守护者：自然主义者日记》。

It was originally supposed to be called Wardens, the naturalist journals.

这个想法是，嗯，作为一种方式来庆祝那些保护自然世界的人们。

And the idea was it would be, yeah, just a a way of celebrating the people protecting the natural world.

无论是通过严格的保护，还是通过沟通，或者仅仅是关心——嗯，我书里提到了一些例子。

And whether that is through, you know, hardcore conservation or just through communication or, you know, caring for you know, I've got I've got a back here in my book.

我提到了史蒂夫·哈斯拉姆，他负责QOL总部，把他的全部知识、财富和资金都投入到了保护袋狸栖息地的实际工作中，我觉得这太了不起了。

I I have Steve Haslam who runs QOL HQ who's, you know, put all of his, like, knowledge and wealth and money, you know, into actually trying to conserve habitat for quolls, which I think is extraordinary.

我还提到了乔什·伯韦尔，他是一名焊工，却发起了黄腹滑翔者项目。

I've got Josh Burwell, who's a welder, who started the Yellowbelly Glider Project.

然后我还提到了像汤姆·梅这样的人，他是澳大利亚最负盛名的真菌学家之一。

And then I've got, you know, people like Tom May, who is, you know, one of the most celebrated mycologists in Australia.

实际上，我在写这本书时并不知道，他正是那起‘蘑菇谋杀案’中的首席真菌学证人。

And was actually I didn't realize while I was writing the book was the lead mycological witness in the mushroom murder case.

哇。

Wow.

嗯。

Yeah.

所以我想，要是早知道的话，我本可以偷偷加进去的。

So I was like, if only I knew I could have snuck that in.

但我没有。

But no, I didn't.

所以，就是这样了。

So yeah, that that that's it.

里面还提到一些鸟类。

There's, a few birds in there.

感觉有点奇怪。

It does feel weird.

它并不只是充满观鸟者和鸟类之类的内容，而是真正试图探索这个群体的多样性，以及澳大利亚各地人们所做的事情。

It not being just full of bird watches and and birds and stuff, but really just trying to explore the, you know, the diversity and the range in that community and what people are doing around Australia.

而且照片是你拍的，不只是写了文字。

And you took the photos for it, not just wrote the words.

能跟我们说说拍摄这些拍摄对象的过程吗？

Tell us a bit about that process of taking photographs of your subjects.

嗯。

Yeah.

我完全使用胶片拍摄，用的是35毫米胶片。

So I shoot a 100% on film, on 35 mil film.

不只是因为我是个讨厌的文艺青年，而是我真的享受这个过程。

Not just because I'm a, you know, a disgusting hipster, but I it's just a process I enjoy.

我很多年前就开始这样做了，相比数码摄影，我从胶片中获得了更多乐趣，比如那种无法立即看到成片的延迟满足感，以及与胶片之间那种协作的感觉。

And I started doing it like a number of years ago, and I I got a lot more out of it than I did the digital photography, even just like that delayed gratification of not knowing what your shots look like and the sort of the feeling of collaboration with with the film.

作为一名野生动物摄影师，我很少拍摄人物。

Being a wildlife photographer, you don't photograph people very often.

当有人请我给他们拍照时，我常常开玩笑说。

And I would often make the joke if someone asked me to take a photo of them.

我说，没问题。

I'm like, yeah, that's fine.

但你介意像青蛙一样蹲下来吗？

But do you mind crouching down like a frog?

因为那样会好很多。

Because, it'll be way better.

是的，那个过程真的非常令人兴奋。

And yeah, so that's that process was really exciting.

那种实验感觉很有趣。

It was fun to sort of, experiment with that.

而且，最终成品我竟然并不反感。

And yeah, the end product I'm surprisingly not disgusted by.

我对此相当自豪。

I I I'm quite proud of it.

所以，希望吧，顺便说一句，你可能是第一批拿到副本的人之一。

So, hopefully, yeah, I think you're you're one of the first people to get a copy, by the way.

嗯，我感到非常荣幸。

Well, I'm very honored.

这是一本美丽的书，我的意思是，我之前说过，每个人都会对我们的友谊程度感到惊讶。

It's a beautiful book and I I mean, again, I said, like, everyone's gonna get disgusted by how much we're friends.

但我知道。

But I know.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这是一本很棒的书。

I'd like it's it's a great book.

它不仅美观，而且是一本你可以随手拿起，读上几章或几个人的故事，稍作反思的书，因为它真的会让你思考自己，没错。

Not only is it beautiful, but it's the kind of book that you can pick up and just enjoy a couple of chapters or a couple of people's stories and, like, do a little bit of reflection because it really makes you think about yourself Yeah.

也会让你思考自己对自然以及与世界关系的感受。

As well and and how you feel about nature and your relationship with the world.

然后你可以把它放下一段时间，再重新拿起来读。

And then you can put it down for a while and you can pick it back up again.

你做得太棒了，塞萨尔。

You've done a bang up job, Cesar.

从这位前小学老师那里，你会得到一枚大象邮票、一张图表上的星星，还会得到我一个微笑表情和一个勾号。

From this ex primary school teacher, you get an elephant stamp, you get a star on your chart, and you get a little, you know, like a a smiley face and a tick from me.

我对大象邮票非常兴奋。

I'm very excited about the elephant stamp.

是的。

I yeah.

你这么说真的太贴心了。

And that's really kind of you to say.

每一章都讲述一位不同的个体。

And each chapter is about a different individual.

所以，仅通过12个人来概括整个澳大利亚自然主义者群体，确实存在难度。

So, like, there is a there is a difficulty in trying to capture the whole naturalist community in Australia by just, you know, 12 individuals.

对吧？

Right?

也就是12章。

Like, 12 chapters.

但最终，我根本不可能成功做到这一点。

And ultimately, like, was never gonna succeed in that.

我永远不可能全面地展现澳大利亚每个人的状况。

I was never gonna be able to, you know, give the the most complete representation of of everyone in Australia.

但你知道，我们的希望是，书里有足够的内容能让人们尝到一点味道。

But, like, you know, the hope is is that there's enough in there to give people a taste.

这真的让我着迷，因为任何听过《周末观鸟》的人都知道，我和对鸟类一样着迷于人。

It really fascinates me because anyone who's listened to Weekend Bird and knows that I am as fascinated by people as I am by the birds.

对我来说，这两者是交织在一起的。

For me, they are intertwined.

它们是相互关联的。

They are interconnected.

我喜欢结识观鸟者，听他们的故事。

I love meeting bird watchers and hearing their stories.

我真心好奇人们与自然的关系。

I'm genuinely curious about people's relationship with nature.

所以我觉得谈论人和谈论鸟类都没关系。

And so I think it's okay to talk about people and talk about birds.

我觉得听众能理解，因为他们收听《周末鸟鸣》不仅是因为喜欢听鸟类的故事，也因为喜欢其中的热情和信息。

And I think people who are listening get it because they they tune into Weekend Bird because they like hearing people's stories as well as the passion and the information.

所以我们不会回避这一点，但我们会谈论鸟类，因为我很好奇最近有没有什么鸟让你对观鸟产生了兴趣。

So we won't shy away from that, but we will talk about birds because I'm curious to know if there's been some birds recently that have got you excited about bird watching.

因为最近我发现，观鸟是一种持续的旅程，人们可能回听过最近关于布罗肯山和霍巴特的几期节目。

Because what I found recently is that bird watching is this sort of ongoing journey, and people, might have listened back to recent episodes about Broken Hill and Hobart.

我发现自己的观鸟热情又重新被点燃了一点，这种热情一直都在，但某些鸟类或经历真的能重新激发和点燃它，因为观鸟是一种需要持续保持参与感的爱好，不能只是简单地置身自然之中。

And I found that I've kind of reinvigorated a little bit my bird watching love, which is always there, but there's something really nice about birds that or experiences that re spark and reignite this because it's a bit of an ongoing hobby where you have to keep yourself engaged a little bit all the time besides just being out in nature.

你有没有经历过某个令人震撼的时刻？或者最近有没有哪种鸟特别引起了你的兴趣？

Have you had a cool powerful moment, or is there a bird that really got your curiosity at the moment?

有。

Yeah.

有。

Yeah.

你说得很有意思，因为对鸟类的热爱或观鸟这一行为，本质上是一种永恒的活动。

And it's interesting what you say because the passion or the the the love of birds or the the act of bird watching is, you know, it's an eternal activity.

这其中有着无限的可能性。

It's an there's an infinite amount of possibilities.

即使你 somehow 能够看到地球上每一种鸟，你也永远无法看到它们所有的行为。

And even if from somehow you manage to see every single bird in on planet Earth, you're still never gonna see every behavior.

你永远无法做到，你明白我的意思吧？

You're still never gonna be able to see you know what I mean?

这是不可能完成的。

There's it's impossible to complete.

这是一场永远无法通关的游戏。

It's the the game that's impossible to complete.

回答你的问题，我最近从位于茂物山亚热带雨林的家搬到了昆士兰州东南部的郊区，那里曾经有枪鸟、猫鸟、哇哺果鸠、黑鸮、喧闹食蜜鸟，这些都是一流的非凡鸟类。

To answer your question, I recently moved from my home in the subtropical rainforest of Mount Glorious where I'm surrounded by riflebirds and catbirds, wampoo fruit doves, sooty owls, noisy pittas, all of these, like, world class extraordinary birds to the suburbs of Southeast Queensland.

对此，我曾感到相当害怕。

And it was something I was quite afraid of.

甚至连肖恩·杜利都给我发了条短信。

Even Sean Dooley sent me a text.

他给我发了几条短信，其中一条基本上说：我的意思是，如果非得在瓦姆普果鸠和岩鸠之间选一个，我知道我会选哪个。

Sent me a couple of texts, but one of them basically said, I mean, I don't know if I had to pick between Wampoo Fruit Doves and Rock Doves, I know which one I'd be picking.

我想，好吧。

Thought, alright.

但他也总结说，实际上，我搬去的地方会有更多鸟可看。

But but he did also sum it up by saying, actually, there'll be more birds to see where I'm moving.

所以我搬到了伊普斯维奇地区。

So I'm I've I've moved to, like, the Ipswich region.

雨林的特点是，你总会拥有那里现有的那些鸟。

The thing about the rainforest is that you kind of are always gonna have the birds that you have there.

对吧？

Right?

有些鸟是海拔迁徙的，等等，会有鸟进出，但看到稀有鸟种的可能性要小得多。

Some of them are altitude migrants and whatever, and there are things that move in and out, but way less likely to get rarities, for example.

而且你所处的栖息地类型更少，却能看到更多样化的鸟类。

And you also have a a smaller diversity of habitat in order to see, like, a greater diversity of birds.

所以搬到这样一个地方，这里有湿地，还有小小的雨林溪谷。

So moving somewhere like this where there now wetlands and there are little, you know, rainforest gullies.

于是我开始在伊普斯维奇观鸟。

So I started bird watching Ipswich.

我看到的第一种鸟就是瓦姆普果鸠，这在伊普斯维奇算是稀有鸟种。

One of the first birds I got was a Wampoo fruit dove, which is like a rarity for Ipswich.

它本该是山上后院的常见鸟，但我觉得这挺搞笑的。

It should be a backyard bird back on the mountain, but I thought that was quite funny.

唯一让我稍微感到安慰的是，现在我的后院有了华丽的 fairy wrens。

The one thing that has sort of consoled me a little bit is that now I have superb fairy wrens in my backyard.

它们绝对不算稀有，但却是非常优美可爱的鸟。

They're not a rare bird by any stretch, but they're such a wonderful, beautiful bird.

它们的鸣叫声非常动听。

They have a great song.

现在雄鸟正展现出最鲜艳的羽毛，我们来得正是时候。

When the males are in full color at the moment, we've moved at the exact right time.

这多少也算是一种安慰，让人忍不住说：哇，真棒。

And there is it is like a minor consolation to be like, oh, wow.

你知道，这里周围还是有不少东西的。

You know, there is stuff around here.

是的，每次听到它们的叫声，我的心情都会变好。

And yeah, it's it brightens my spirits every time I hear one.

所以，现在这成了我后院的鸟儿。

And so, yeah, now now that's my backyard bird.

这正是周末观鸟者的标志。

And that's the logo of the weekend birder.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

向超凡 fairy wren 致敬。

Shout out to the Superb Fairy Wren.

我们在周末观鸟总部是狂热粉丝。

We are massive fans here at weekend birder HQ.

我发现，拥有后院并住在郊区意味着我实际上能认识具体的个体。

I have noticed that having a backyard and being in the suburbs means that I actually do know individuals as well.

我能认出每一只喜鹊。

I know the magpies individually.

我能认出每一只屠夫鸟。

I know the butcher bird individually.

所以你可能也会这样做。

So maybe you'll also do that.

你会开始认识巴里，那只超凡 fairy wren，还有他的配偶们，他的五位雌性伴侣。

You'll start to get to know Barry, the superb fairy rend, and and his and his met and his five partners, his five female partners.

是的。

Yes.

他的五位雌性伴侣都非常忠诚。

His five female partners who are all very loyal.

是的。

Yeah.

不。

No.

所以，我想就是这样了，对吧？

So, yeah, I guess that's it, isn't it?

这就像是到了一个新地方，先了解你 neighborhood 的鸟类，然后进一步了解季节变化，弄清楚哪些鸟会迁徙而来，逐渐熟悉当地的鸟类生活。

It's like getting to a new place and learning the birds of of your neighborhood, but then also learning the seasons and learning what moves through and sort of, yeah, becoming acquainted with with the bird life.

这很有趣。

And it's interesting.

前几天我沿着马路散了会儿步，只是想走一条我以前没走过的路。

I went for a little walk just down the road the other day just to, you know, walk down a new road that I hadn't walked down.

结果我发现了一个小湿地。

And I found a small wetland.

那里还有芦苇莺。

And it was and there were reed warblers there.

还有棕斑秧鸡。

And there are buff banded rails.

还有各种各样的鸟，你知道的，这些鸟来自雨林，而那里 arguably 拥有世界上最好的鸟类。

And there's all, you know, there's all this stuff that coming from rainforest where arguably you have some of the best birds in the world.

但现在，我发现这些普通的鸟儿非常非常令人兴奋。

Now just these regular birds I find very, very exciting.

我也正在成为一个真正的地方政府区域观鸟者，这以前我从未做过，但现在我觉得是的。

I'm becoming a real LGA birder as well, which I've never been before, but now I'm like, yeah.

伊普斯维奇地方政府区域。

The Ipswich LGA.

我得去挖掘那些角落，找到那些小物种。

I gotta get those, you know, dig out those corners and find those those little species.

在新区域探索新事物真有趣。

It's fun being in a new area and discovering new things.

在你的另一个播客《有史以来的所有动物》中，你们的范围很广。

And as part of your other podcast, every animal ever, you go broad.

对吧？

Right?

没错。

Like Yeah.

你和扎克在讨论来自世界各地的动物和鸟类。

You and Zach are talking about animals and birds from all over the world.

是的。

Yeah.

在那个播客里，你最近有没有了解到某种鸟——无论是在澳大利亚还是海外——它有一些有趣的事实或你以前不知道的信息？

Is there a bird that you've recently learned about on that podcast either in Australia or overseas that has been like, fun facts and things that you didn't know about that bird that you learned through the podcast?

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我们为这个播客已经做了相当多的鸟类。

Well, we've done a shameful number of birds for that podcast.

我们有一位听众给我们发了一张图表，展示了自然界中动物的分布与《每一个动物》节目中动物的呈现比例，这简直令人作呕。

We had a the listener of the pod send us a a graph of, you know, the representation of animals in nature compared to the representation of animals on every animal ever, and it's it's pretty disgusting.

但谁有时间做这种事呢？

But also who has the time for that?

我真的很欣赏他们用心为你绘制这张图表。

I love I love their dedication to graphing that out for you.

当然是我们的听众。

Definitely our listeners.

是的。

Yeah.

我相当惊讶，而且我发现里面有一些明显的遗漏。

I was pretty impressed, and I I did it there was some glaring gaps in there.

这几乎就像是一个借口，让你去深入探索一个小众话题。

It is it's almost like an excuse to, you know, go down a little rabbit hole.

就像，我不知道。

Like, I don't know.

你是个维基百科迷吗？

Were you a Wikipedia?

你是不是那种会一头扎进去，专门去了解某个特定主题的人？我能想象你会这样。

Are you a Wikipedia person that just gets sucked into a, you know, a little I can imagine you'd be someone that gets sucked into learning about a specific thing.

是的。

Yeah.

听好了。

Look.

在《周末暴走》早期，我被维基百科坑过一次。

I'd I've been burnt by Wikipedia a little bit early on in Weekend Burda.

我觉得它给我提供了一些不准确的信息，后来有听众好心指出来了。

I think it dealt me some information that wasn't correct that some listeners kindly pointed out.

所以现在我不太信任它了。

So now I I'm not as trusting of it.

所以我更常去查阅eBird和鸟类生活网。

So I do go to more Pornell and, you know, BirdLife.

但没错，我百分百会想：‘哦，我得赶紧为下一期节目查一下这个。’

But, yeah, I a 100%, I I think, oh, I've gotta quickly research this for an upcoming episode.

两小时后，我就想：‘好吧。’

And two hours later, I'm like, okay.

我该去准备晚饭了。

I better make my dinner.

好奇心和对学习的渴望，百分百能引起共鸣。

Curiosity and that thirst for learning is a 100% relatable.

是的。

Yeah.

这个播客让我能做的一切就是如此。

And that's all this podcast lets me do.

对吧？

Right?

就像是，我决定选欧洲风格。

It's like, I'm gonna pick so I did European styling.

我就想，我要花几个小时读一下欧洲风格，找一些最疯狂、最奇怪的事实。

I'm like, I'm just gonna read about European stylings for a couple of hours, just find the the craziest, weirdest facts that I could find.

当然，你必须涵盖一些基础内容，比如群飞现象以及它们是如何用数学实现的。

And, yeah, of course, you have to cover the basic stuff like the murmurations and how they do that mathematically.

但后来我发现，曾经有一段时间，伦敦的它们数量太多，以至于停掉了大本钟，或者说是那个钟，你知道我说的是什么吧？

But then I also found out that at one point in time, there were so many of them living in London that they stopped Big Ben or the the clock that's attached you know what I mean?

像这种有趣的事情。

Like, that's fun stuff.

它们是怎么让大本钟停下来的？

How did they stop Big Ben?

给我们讲讲这个。

Tell us about that.

只是靠重量。

Just by weight.

它们只是开始停在钟的指针上。

They just start sitting on the on one of the clock hands.

在有人来纠正之前，我知道钟本身不是大本钟。

Before anyone writes in, I know that the clock is not Big Ben.

大本钟是那个钟铃。

The Big Ben's the bell.

但我肯定有人会给你写信，然后你就会收到一封愤怒的邮件。

But I'm sure someone will write into you and you'll get an angry email.

不会的。

Nah.

不会的。

Nah.

我们是澳大利亚人。

We're Australians.

我们只是把它叫做大本钟。

We just know it as big ban.

一切都好。

It's all good.

对不起，我的英国听众，但我们这里的人对此非常无知。

Sorry to sorry to my UK listeners, but we're very ignorant over here.

是的。

Yeah.

所以他们就做了一些类似这样的有趣事情。

So they did you know, just fun stuff like that.

我还找到了一份旧报纸的剪报，上面抱怨说有太多星椋鸟，导致钟表没有准时前进，人们因此迟到。

And I found the old newspaper clipping that was, you know, complaining that there were so many starlings that, you know, people were people were running late because the the clock hadn't moved forward.

都是一些傻乎乎的事情。

So just silly things.

我们来聊聊记忆吧，因为这在我们这个节目里还没怎么讨论过，但我对此非常着迷。

Let's talk about memorization for a second because it's not something we've really talked about on this show before, and it just fascinates me so much.

也许我们先解释一下什么是群飞。

Maybe first we should explain what a murmuration is.

我的意思是，这个词太酷了。

I mean, it's such a cool word.

对吧？

Right?

嗯。

Yeah.

这真是个优美的词。

It is a beautiful word.

这真是个优美的词。

It's a beautiful word.

而且我觉得这个词本身完美地代表或反映了这种行为。

And it basically it I I feel like the word itself perfectly represents or reflects the activity.

所以，概念是，有一大群欧洲椋鸟在天空中穿梭飞舞。

So the the idea is is that there are these large flocks of of European stylings that'll weave and dance through the sky.

对吧？

Right?

而且这通常与傍晚或黄昏时分有关，你知道的，日落时分，你会看到这些壮观的群体在空中掠过。

And it's often associated with late evenings or the late afternoons, you know, sunset and you see these great sweeping masses.

现在我相信，最初的理论认为它们一定是有心灵感应的。

Now I believe the original theory was that they must be psychic.

那是你能记录下来的第一个说法。

That was like the first record that you can write.

就像是，当然它们一定是心灵感应的，因为它们全都整齐地编队飞行。

Was like, well, of course they must be psychic because they're all flying in formation.

如果没有读心能力，它们怎么可能做出如此复杂的动作呢？

How could they possibly be moving in these intricate patterns without being able to read each other's minds?

而诚实的回答是，我们现在知道，它们并不是在共同思考同一个方向。

And like the honest answer, what we know now is they just it's not a direction that they're all thinking of.

只是如果你是一只鸟，你遵循的大概是九只或七只鸟的规律，我觉得是这样。

It's just that if if you're one bird and you're following the the sort of I think the magic number was maybe nine or seven.

我可能会说错这个数字。

I'm gonna get that wrong.

但你必须观察周围一定数量的鸟，这个数量是个神奇的数字。

But there's a magic number of how many birds you have to watch around you.

然后，只要你跟随身边的鸟，而每个人也都跟随他们身边的鸟，最终，天空中就会形成这种令人惊叹的复杂图案。

And then if you just follow those and everyone just follows the ones around you, like, eventually, you just get this amazing intricate pattern in the sky.

不仅形成了这样的图案，而且它们在天空中协同移动的方式，显然也体现了群体安全的原理。

Not only does it form that pattern, but the way that they move together across the sky obviously, there's a safeties in number component.

许多动物都是这样做的。

So many animals do that.

陆地动物也是如此，它们结伴而行，以便互相照应。

Land animals as well just travel around together so that we can keep out keep an eye out for each other.

要么迅速分散，迷惑捕食者，要么至少能形成某种早期预警系统。

Either, you know, disperse quickly and confuse the predator or at least be able to have an early warning system somehow.

澳大利亚也有一些鸟类会发出类似 murmuration 的群体飞行行为。

There are Australian animals that Australian birds that murmur as well.

虽然不像星鸟那样，但葵花凤头鹦鹉的群体飞行方式是一种有趣的 murmuration 变体。

Not in the same way that starlings do, but Corellas is a interesting version of a murmuration in the way that they fly together.

我看过它们改变图案。

I've watched them change patterns.

我看过它们在最后一刻决定落在树上。

I've watched them decide at the last minute to land in a tree.

小葵花凤头鹦鹉的声音与欧洲椋鸟大不相同。

The sound of Corellas is quite different to the south of starlings.

是的。

Yeah.

那是一种对耳朵的猛烈冲击，却以最奇妙、最令人惊叹的方式呈现。

A brutal assault on your ears in the most amazing aura in wonder way.

我也会想到转弯。

I also think about turns.

两年前的夏天，我在墨尔本西部的西部处理厂，开车沿着一条路行驶时，瞥见旁边的一片草地上。

So I was at the Western Treatment Plant two summers ago in Western Melbourne and driving along a road, and I looked to the side to a paddock.

那里主要是仙鹤，它们正在群飞。

And there was mainly fairy turns, And they were murmuring.

它们全都成群结队地飞向水面。

They were all coming down to the water in a giant group.

大概有两百只鸟吧，我也说不准。

There would have been, I don't know, 200 birds.

多得根本数不清。

Like, there were so many you couldn't count them.

然后它们会从水面上方掠过，飞回空中，接着又飞回水面，再再次腾空而起。

And then they would sort of sweep up from the water and fly back into the air, then they come back down to the water, and then they sweep up again.

接着它们全部飞向附近一块田野，那里的飞行模式与星椋鸟的群体舞动非常相似。

And then they all move to a a nearby field that had a very similar pattern to Starling Memoration.

我拍到了这段视频。

And I like I've got video footage of it.

我觉得我永远无法分享它，因为视频里只有我沉重而急促的呼吸声，当时我太震撼了。

I don't think I can ever share it because it's just me heavy deep breathing, like, like, overwhelmed.

还有很多

And a lot