130只鸟与书——与安吉拉共读

本集录制于东库林民族的Wurundjeri Woiwurrung和Bunurrung Bunurrung原住民的土地上。

This episode was recorded on the countries of the Wurundjeri Woiwurrung and the Bunurrung Bunurrung peoples of the Eastern Kulin nation.

我们向过去的和现在的长者及其家人致以敬意。

We pay our respects to elders past and present and to their families.

我们庆祝他们文化的持久存在，这些文化至今仍是墨尔本身份中鲜活、生动且不可或缺的一部分。

We celebrate the enduring presence of their cultures, cultures that remain a living, breathing, and vital part of Melbourne's identity today.

欢迎收听《周末观鸟者》。

Welcome to Weekend Birder.

我是您的主持人，柯尔斯蒂·卡斯特。

I'm your host, Kirsty Custer.

在本集中，我们将讨论书籍中的鸟类。

In this episode, we're going to talk about birds in books.

衷心感谢听众Ava J、Ben F、Claudia F、Harry Y、Mary Anne Kay、Ravi T和Simone G。

Many thanks to listeners Ava J, Ben F, Claudia F, Harry Y, Mary Anne Kay, Ravi T, and Simone G.

今天与我们对话的是获奖作家、维多利亚州公共图书馆首席执行官安吉拉·萨维奇。

Joining us for this chat is Angela Savage, an award winning writer and the CEO of Public Libraries Victoria.

你好，安吉拉。

Hello, Angela.

很高兴你

It's so fun to

能来这里。

have you here.

你能告诉我们，你是从什么时候开始注意到鸟类的吗？

Can you tell us about when you started to notice birds?

我从婴儿时期就开始对鸟类感兴趣了，因为我的祖父常把我抱在膝上，我们一起翻看从茶叶包里收集来的那些小巧的鸟类卡片，并把它们贴在提供的相册里。

I've been interested in birds since I was a baby because my grandfather used to sit me on his knee, and we would go through the the tiny tipped bird cards that you collected from packets of leaf tea and stick them in the albums that were provided.

我们会一起念出鸟类的名字。

We would recite the names of the birds together.

我想在我两岁之前，就能流利地报出诸如深红雀、灰雀、褐雨燕、毛腿夜鹰这类鸟的名字了。

I think before I was two years old, I could rattle off, you know, crimson, chat, sooty, turn, tawny, frogmouth, this kind of thing.

但我们当时只是‘沙发观鸟者’。

But we were really armchair ornithologists.

我们当时就是在看鸟。

Like, we we were looking at birds.

我记得和祖父在一起时，是在图片、杂志和书里看鸟。

What I remember about being with my grandfather was looking at birds in pictures, in magazines, in books.

直到我成年后，在新冠疫情期间——我知道这是个很常见的故事——我才开始认真地观鸟。

It wasn't until I was an adult and during COVID, which I know is a very common story, that I started taking up birding in a serious way.

我通过推特认识了一些人，他们主动带我去观鸟，比如推特上的迈克尔，鸟友迈克尔，大家都知道的迈克尔·利文斯通。

And I met some people ironically through Twitter who offered to take me birding and Michael, Bird Michael from Twitter, who everyone knows, Michael Livingston.

我们在皇家公园见面，那里就在我们五公里步行范围内，我第一次看到了斑点 pardolote，那成了我的入门契机。

And we met at Royal Park, was in our five k walking zone, and I saw my first spotted pardolote, and then that was my gateway drug.

从那以后，我就一直是个认真的业余观鸟者。

And I've been a sort of a serious amateur birder ever since.

我很喜欢斑点 pardolote 成为了你的观鸟起点，贝特，安吉拉。

I love that the spotted pardolote was your spark, Bert Angela.

它在我心中也有着特殊的位置。

It has a special place in my heart as well.

我们一定要向迈克尔·利文斯顿致敬，他每年都会制作一本鸟类日历，我认为他已经为慈善事业筹集了近10万美元。

And we should definitely give a shout out to Michael Livingston who each year creates a bird calendar, and I think he's raised almost a $100,000 for charity.

真是个传奇人物。

What a legend.

他真是个推动者。

He is such an enabler.

确实如此。

He really is.

我会在节目笔记中放上迈克尔的Instagram链接。

I'll put a link to Michael's Instagram in the show notes.

你之前提到过塔克菲尔德的鸟类卡片。

You mentioned before about Tuckfield's bird cards.

让我从书架上快速拿点东西。

Let me quickly grab something from my shelf.

看看我这里有什么。

Check out what I've got here.

这本非常适合播客收听，但我实际上有两本由我的朋友丽莎·霍奇森赠予我的塔克菲尔德鸟类卡片集。

This is going to make for great podcast listening, but I've actually got two Tuckfield bird card albums that were gifted to me by my friend Lisa Hodgson.

我非常喜欢它们。

I love them so much.

所以我现在有三本。

So I've got three.

我拥有全部三本。

I've got all three

但之前我只有你看到的那两本。

of them, but I did I only had those two that you've got.

最近，一位朋友的父亲去世了，她把父亲的收藏送给了我，那正是我缺少的一本，还有一大堆其他卡片，我还没来得及把它们整理粘贴到册子里，但它们真美，不是吗？

And then a friend when her a friend's father died recently, she gave me she gifted me his album, which was the one I was missing, and a whole lot of other cards, which I haven't even had the chance to go in and stick into the albums yet, but they're just gorgeous, aren't they?

是的。

Yeah.

确实很美。

They really are.

我其实还有一部分

And I actually have a bit

我有一个传统：当我生命清单上看到第100只、第200只和第300只鸟时，我会在Tuckfield卡片收藏中找到对应的鸟，不是在这本相册里，而是在线上找。

of a tradition where on my hundredth and my two hundredth bird and my three hundredth bird on my life list, I actually find the bird in the Tuck Fields card collection, not the ones in this album, but online.

然后我会把它们装框，挂在我的鸟类墙上，作为庆祝我百鸟里程碑的小仪式。

And I frame them, and I put them on my bird wall as a bit of a celebration of my century bird.

太棒了。

Oh, fantastic.

是的。

Yeah.

这只是我做的一件小事。

It's just a little thing that I do.

我觉得很多有观鸟清单的人都会庆祝自己的百鸟里程碑。

I think that quite a few people who have bird lists also celebrate their century birds.

所以，有点小仪式是不是挺有趣的？

So it's fun to have little rituals, isn't it?

所以，安吉拉，除了鸟类之外，你生活的另一部分是书籍。

So, Angela, besides birds, the other part of your life is books.

你能告诉我们你是如何成为作家的吗？

Can you tell us how did you become an author?

我成长在一个充满书籍的家庭，父母都非常热爱阅读。

I grew up in a a house full of books with two parents who were passionate about reading.

事实上，他们生前都是狂热的读者，当我们为我父亲的临终计划做准备时，我问他什么变化会让你的生活无法忍受，他列出的第一件事就是失去阅读能力。

In fact, both of them, when they were alive, were such avid readers that when we were working on my dad's end of life plan and I asked him what changes would make life intolerable for you, the first thing on his list was a loss of ability to read.

当我母亲被诊断出患有晚期癌症时，我问她：‘你有什么遗憾吗？’

And when my mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer and I said, Do you have any regrets?

她第一句话就说：‘我可能活不到读完《狼厅》续集的时候了。',

The first thing she said was, I might not live long enough to read the sequel to Wolf Hall.

这就是他们对书籍的热爱程度。

So that's how passionate the two of them were about books.

所以，说实话，我认为阅读已经融入了我的基因。

So I think it's in my DNA, to be honest.

我一直以来都爱读书。

I've always read.

我一向热爱阅读，实际上我是因为对阅读的热爱才走上写作之路的。

I've always loved reading, and I actually came to writing through a love of reading.

我想，如果我有机会写出一些能像我所阅读和钟爱的书籍那样让人享受的作品，那将是一次值得的尝试。

I thought, if there's any chance that I could produce something that people would enjoy as much as I've enjoyed the books that I've read and loved, then that would be a worthy exercise.

我一生都在写作，但在九十年代末，我开始有意识地抽出时间，认真地追求出版，最终在2006年出版了我的第一本小说。

So I I've been writing all my life, but I sort of set aside some time in the late nineties with a kind of serious intent to get published, and that led ultimately to the publication of my first novel in 2006.

我总共出版了四部小说和一系列短篇故事。

And I published four novels all up and a suite of short stories.

过去几年我写的短篇故事，似乎都以鸟类为主题，基尔斯蒂。

The short stories I've been writing over the last few years all seem to feature birds, Kirsty.

我有个不太正式的幻想，想把这些与鸟类相关的故事集结成册，但不幸的是，短篇小说集在澳大利亚卖得不太好，所以我可能得把目光投向更远的地方。

I'm kind of, you know, loose I've got this loose fantasy about putting together a collection of these bird related stories, but, unfortunately, short story collections don't sell all that well in Australia, so I might have to look further afield.

不过，是的，我就是特别爱书。

But, yeah, I've I've I just love books.

然后我长期在非营利部门工作，后来担任了维多利亚作家协会的负责人几年。

And then I worked in in the not for profit sector for a very long time and then ended up heading up Writers Victoria for a few years.

从维多利亚作家协会，我转任维多利亚公共图书馆的首席执行官。

And from Writers Victoria, moved into Public Libraries Victoria as CEO.

所以，你知道，我开玩笑说，我从‘维多利亚作家协会’到了‘维多利亚读者协会’，但这份工作对我来说真的很棒，因为它把我在社区发展、识字、阅读和故事方面所有热爱的事物都融合在了一起。

And so it was kind of you know, I joked that I went from Writers Victoria to Readers Victoria, but, you know, it's it's such a great job for me because it kinda brings together all the things I'm passionate about in terms of community development and literacy and reading and stories.

所以这真是太美好了。

So it's it's very lovely.

而我们现在正谈论着鸟类和书籍。

And now here we are talking about birds and books.

我想我用的词是‘幻想项目’。

I think fantasy gig was the term I used.

基尔斯蒂要求谈一谈书籍和鸟类，这简直让人震惊。

Kirsty Benk asked to talk about books and birds is like, woah.

你知道，信息量太大了。

You know, overload.

这太令人兴奋了。

It's so exciting.

嗯，

Well,

你为我们准备了一份详尽的鸟类书籍清单。

you have an extensive bird book list for us.

你想从哪里开始呢？

Where do you wanna kick off?

当你提到谈书和鸟类时，我首先想到的是梅丽莎·阿什利的《鸟人之妻》。

Well, the first book that came into my mind when you said talk about books and birds was The Birdman's Wife by Melissa Ashley.

我不会详细讲述这本书，因为我知道你在播客中专门做了一期（第106期）介绍它，那是一期很棒的节目，涉及鸟类学、纸质香水，以及你与克莱尔·普雷瑟讨论这本书的跨界内容。

And I won't go into a lot of detail about it because I know you devoted a whole episode on the podcast, episode one zero six, to this, which is a beautiful episode, ornithology, paperback perfumes, crossover where you were talking about the book with Claire Presser.

我只是想为你们的讨论补充一点内容。

I think I just wanted to add to your discussion.

我特别喜欢这本书的一点是，我一直对约翰·古尔德有所了解，因为我的祖父从小就让我接触他的作品，还让我加入了古尔德协会，诸如此类的事情。

I think one of the things I loved about the book, I've always been aware of John Gould because my grandfather sort of put his work in front of me, signed me up to the Gould League as a kid, all of that kind of thing.

因此，当我了解到伊丽莎白——他长期默默无闻的首席画师——时，我感到非常着迷。

And so I was really fascinated to learn more about Elizabeth, his wife, who was the primary artist of his work for so long, uncredited.

我特别喜欢读这本书的一点是，我会躺在床上用iPad阅读，每一章都以她所画的一种鸟命名，我读每一章时都会在iPad上调出相应的图片。

And one of the things I did love about reading this book was that I would sit up in bed with my iPad and each chapter being named after one of the birds that she painted, I would then bring up the image on the iPad as I started to read each chapter.

这真是一段美妙的体验，它大大加深了我对她的敬佩之情和对她作品的欣赏。

And that just it was such a beautiful experience, and it really strengthened my admiration for her and her work.

我觉得她是一个非常有趣的人物。

I think she's such an interesting character.

你知道，她曾与爱德华·利尔合作，这让我特别感兴趣，而且每次看到她的作品时，我都会格外留意。

You know, the fact that she worked with Edward Lear was really interesting to me, and I've, you know, I've been very conscious every time I see her work.

我收集了一些她的画作明信片，诸如此类的东西。

You know, I've I've collected a few of the images by the postcards with her works on them, all of that kind of thing.

是的。

Yeah.

我真的觉得这本书非常优美。

I really thought this was a beautiful book.

我觉得梅丽莎对这部虚构传记或传记小说（无论你怎么称呼它）的处理非常出色。

Thought Melissa did a fantastic job of a fictional biography or a biographical fiction, whatever you call it.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这本书太棒了。

And I thought it was terrific.

另一本我非常喜欢的书，这是一位澳大利亚作家的作品，她写的书是我目前读到的最令人兴奋的之一。

Another book that I really loved, and this is actually an author who an Australian author whose work is some of the most exciting that I'm reading at the moment.

我非常喜欢她的三本书。

I've loved all three of her books.

夏洛特·麦克纳格希，她的第一本书叫《迁徙》。

Charlotte McConaughey, and her first book was called Migrations.

你读过吗？

Have you read it?

读过。

Yes.

我读过。

I have.

我觉得它美得令人屏息，但同时也令人心碎。

I found it breathtakingly beautiful but also soul crushing.

是的。

Yeah.

这真是一部杰作。

It's a real stunner.

它大概属于气候小说（cli-fi）这一类别，氛围非常浓厚，情感非常动人。

It's kind of probably falls into that cli fi category, climate fiction, and it's so atmospheric and so moving.

而且，人物也非常引人入胜。

And, also, the characters are really engrossing and engaging.

故事 loosely 讲述了一位名叫弗兰妮·斯通的女性，她追踪着据信是最后一批北极燕鸥的迁徙，它们可能正在进行最后一次前往南极的迁徙。

It's sort of loosely about a woman called Franny Stone following the last of the what is believed to be the last of the Arctic turns on what may be their final migration to Antarctica.

她是一个有缺陷但非常有趣的角色。

She's a really flawed but interesting character.

这本书有很多层次。

There's a lot of layers to this book.

她描绘自然世界的方式极具氛围感。

It's incredibly atmospheric, the way she evokes the natural world.

阅读时，你心中还会涌起一种莫名的恐惧：如果这一切是真的怎么办？

And there's this kind of also this sort of dread in your heart as you're reading it that, you know, what if that was true?

如果这是最后一次迁徙怎么办？

What if that was the last migration?

这本书最初出版时的书名是《最后一次迁徙》。

The book was originally published under the title, the last migration.

后来再版时更名为《迁徙》，是一部杰作。

It was reissued as migrations, and it's a it's a stunner.

我强烈推荐这本书。

I really highly recommend it.

是的。

Yeah.

我也会推荐这本书。

I'd recommend it too.

虽然这是我读过最忧郁的书之一

While it was one of the most melancholic books that I've ever read

嗯。

Mhmm.

弗兰妮旅程的文笔和那种强烈的情感让人几乎无法放下。

The writing and that intensity of Franny's journey made it pretty much impossible to put down.

是的。

Yes.

我同意。

I agree.

而且你看。

And look.

也向她的新作《荒野暗岸》致敬。

A shout out to her new one as well, which is Wild Dark Shore.

你也读过这一本吗？

Have you read that one as well?

没有。

No.

我没读过。

I haven't.

这本书不像《迁徙》那样大量围绕鸟类展开，但其中有很多关于企鹅的动人场景。

It doesn't revolve as heavily around birds as migrations does, but the number of lovely scenes involving penguins.

同样，这本书非常沉重，其中的家庭关系以及对爱的本质的沉思都美得令人心碎。

Again, it's quite it's quite heavy, The family relationships in it and the and the kind of meditation on the nature of love is just beautiful.

所以，我也推荐这一本。

So, I also recommend that one.

我已在图书馆行业工作了五年，当你给我这个挑战时，我想，好吧。

Having worked for the library sector now for five years, I've when I when you gave me this challenge, I thought, okay.

我会从文学小说开始，然后转向以鸟类为主角的文学小说子类型，接着再看犯罪小说。

I'll start with literary fiction, and then I'll go to a subgenre of literary fiction narrated by birds, and then we'll look at crime.

所以，我打算按类型来展开这次对话。

So I'm going to go by genre this conversation.

接下来的两本书属于由鸟类叙述的文学小说类别。

The next two books come under that category of literary fiction narrated by birds.

我知道非人类叙述者并不是每个人都会喜欢，但我非常喜爱这两本书。

Now I know nonhuman narrators are not everyone's thing, but I loved these two books.

第一本是特蕾西·索伦森于2018年出版的《幸运·加拉》，故事由一只名叫幸运的红领绿鹦鹉讲述，背景设定在西澳大利亚一个偏远小镇，该小镇 loosely 基于卡恩纳冯角，曾发挥过重要作用。

The first of which is Lucky Gala by Tracy Sorenson, which was published in 2018, and it's narrated by a gala called Lucky in a remote Western Australian town, which is loosely based on Cape Carnarvon, which had a role.

这个小镇曾是一个追踪站，在阿波罗登月计划中扮演过角色，而这个故事就发生在一个背景中正发生着这些事件的社区里。

It was a trekking station in this town that had a role in the Apollo moon landing, and this story is set in a community where that's going on in the background.

这只红领绿鹦鹉显然是所有人际关系的观察者，对时间和地点的描绘极为生动。

The galah is obviously the observer of all the human relationships, and it's incredibly evocative of time and place.

同时，它也是一部悲喜剧，因为人类本身就是悲喜剧的。

It's also, you know, tragicomic because humans are tragicomic.

特蕾西是一位出色的作家。

Tracy's a wonderful writer.

我经常引用这本书中的段落，来展示如何通过环境描写揭示人物性格，这本书曾入选迈尔斯·弗兰克林奖长名单，并入围众多其他奖项。

I often use passages from this book to highlight what you can do with setting in terms of shedding light on character, and it was long listed for the Miles Franklin, shortlisted for a whole lot of other awards.

因此，这是一本我一有机会就极力推荐的书，因为我真的觉得它非常出色。

So it's one of those books that I love to amplify when I get the chance because I think it is terrific.

但我也得说，有些人就是无法接受非人类叙述者。

But I I can say that some people just don't get into the nonhuman narrators.

我要把这本书加入我的暑期阅读清单。

I'm gonna add that one to my summer reading list.

听起来真不错。

Sounds really good.

我应该在此提一下，安吉拉提到的所有

And I should actually mention at this point that all of

这些书籍我们都会放在节目笔记中。

the books that Angela is mentioning, we will include in the show notes.

所以，安吉拉，你还有另一本这类书。

So, Angela, you've got another book in this genre.

我想提到的第二种由鸟类叙述的文学小说是最近刚读过的一本，叫《斧头人的狂欢节》，作者是凯瑟琳·奇吉，2022年出版。

The second literary fiction narrated by birds of subgenre that I wanted to mention is one that I've read read very recently called The Axeman's Carnival by Catherine Chidgee, published in 2022.

凯瑟琳是新西兰作家。

Katherine's a New Zealand author.

我非常喜欢她的作品。

I really like her work.

她写过几部令人惊叹的小说。

She's written some stunning novels.

这本书由一只喜鹊叙述，而这种喜鹊实际上是原产于澳大利亚、后被引入新西兰的物种。

This one is narrated by a magpie, and it's actually an Australian species introduced to New Zealand.

这只喜鹊的名字叫塔玛，是Tamagotchi的缩写。

The magpie's name is tama, which is short for Tamagotchi.

我听的是这本书的有声版，音效简直太棒了。

I listened to this book on audio, and the audio was absolutely fantastic.

喜鹊的嗓音非同凡响。

The voice of the magpie is extraordinary.

这只喜鹊在这一对夫妇家中被当作幼鸟抚养，它学会了说话，模仿人类的语言。

The magpie is raised as a chick by the wife in this couple who raised the magpie, and he learns to speak, you know, to mimic human speech.

因此，书中穿插着它模仿人类的对话，同时也有一些部分是喜鹊群体与它对话，它也回应着这个群体。

So the book is interspersed with him and his mimicry, but also there are parts where the magpie community is kind of speaking to him and he's speaking back to that community.

阅读起来相当沉重，因为喜鹊目睹了非常激烈的情境，你在整本书中都处于一种紧张状态。

It's pretty tough going because the magpie is witness to a very full on situation, and you spend a lot of the book in a state of tension.

但话说回来，喜鹊的声音在某种程度上缓解了这种沉重感，它有时幽默得让人捧腹大笑，还带着几分尖刻。

But that said, somehow the heaviness of that is leavened by the voice of the magpie, which at times is laugh out loud funny and quite wicked.

此外，还有一种非常有趣的设定：塔玛成为了一个社交媒体名人，作为帮助陷入困境的家庭赚钱的方式——他们经营的小农场正遭受干旱，诸如此类的困境，这也与书中弥漫的暴力和威胁氛围息息相关。

And there's also a really interesting kind of play because Tama becomes social media celebrity, and as a way of actually generating income for the family who are on hard times, struggling with the small farm in drought conditions and all of that kind of thing, which is also kind of related to the atmosphere of of violence and threat.

我觉得这本书完全引人入胜。

I found it completely absorbing.

正如我所说，我觉得喜鹊的声音太出色了，而且有声书的朗读也非常棒，我强烈推荐，你还可以通过当地公共图书馆免费获取。

And as I say, the voice I just thought the voice was stunning, and the narration of the audiobook, can also highly recommend available for free through your local public library.

你也读过这一本吗？

Have you read that one too?

没有。

No.

这又得加到我的清单里。

That's another one for my list.

好的。

Okay.

这书真棒。

It's a it's a it's a beauty.

好的。

Okay.

接下来我们谈犯罪题材，你有两本书要讲。

So our next genre is crime, and there are two books that you

想聊聊。

wanna speak about.

第一本是2018年出版的《第二视觉》，作者是来自墨尔本的艾芙·克利福德。

The first, which was published in 2018, is Second Sight by Melbourne based Aoife Clifford.

你会发现，大多数以澳大利亚乡村或偏远地区为背景的犯罪小说都设定在虚构的小镇，我认为这主要是因为作者们担心，如果将故事设定在真实地点，他们的错误、疏漏或不足会被一一指出。

You'll find most crime novels that are set in rural or regional Australia are set in fictional towns, and I think that's largely because the authors fear the blowback of setting something in a real place and having all their mistakes or errors or omissions kind of pointed out.

有时，这也是为了保护这些地方的声誉。

And sometimes it's about protecting the the reputation of those places.

但无论如何，这本书设定在虚构的小镇金赛尔。

But, anyway, this one's set in the fictional town of Kinsale.

主角是伊丽莎·卡莫迪，一名律师。

The central character's Eliza Carmody, who's a lawyer.

她正在为一家被指控引发该地区毁灭性丛林大火的公司辩护。

She's defending a corporation accused of starting a devastating bushfire in the area.

但这是一类典型的小说，在澳大利亚乡村黑色文学中，常常是本地人离开小镇后，又回来处理一桩案件，同时还有一个历史案件在平行展开。

But it's one of those novels, and there's a bit of a trope in Australian rural noir where, you know, a local leaves town and then comes back to work on a case, and then there's a historical precedent, another case that's kind of working in parallel.

这本书中也存在这种设定，但红尾黑凤头鹦鹉在书中占据重要地位，甚至出现在小说的封面上。

So that's going on in this book, but red tailed black cockatoos feature highly, and and and in fact, they're on the cover of the novel.

因此，这本书值得特别提及。

So that one gets a special mention.

另一本书是玛格丽特·希基2023年出版的《石镇》。

And the other book is Stonetown by Margaret Hickey published in 2023.

玛格是地区出身的，但我认为她现在住在比奇沃思以外的地方，但她是在维多利亚州乡村长大的，这一点在她的小说中表现得非常明显。

Marg's a regionally but I think she lives outside of Beechworth these days, but she's grown up in regional Victoria, and it really shows in her novels.

她的作品对地方氛围的描绘极为生动。

They're just so evocative of place.

她在节奏和悬疑感方面有着非常出色的文风。

She's got a really great style in terms of pace and suspense.

但《石镇》之所以入选这份书单，是因为书中有一个涉及观鸟的情节，以及对本土鸟类的优美描写。

But the reason why Stonetown makes it onto this list is because there's a plot device involving bird watching and some beautiful descriptions of native birds.

我特别喜欢的是，这些小说的主角、高级警长马克·阿里蒂，最初是为了跟进案件而开始观鸟，但后来他一直保留了这个习惯。

And what I loved about that was that the senior sergeant, the central character of these novels, whose name is Mark Ariti, pursues birdwatching for the sake of following up on this case, but then he keeps up the habit in subsequent books.

所以这真的非常美好。

So it's really lovely.

而且，是的，你看。

And, yeah, look.

她所有的书都非常令人满意，但这一本因其对鸟类的关注而获得特别提及。

All of her books are very satisfying, but that one gets the special mention for its focus on birds.

是的。

Yeah.

我也非常喜欢这本书。

I really love this book as well.

我很喜欢警长并不是出于自愿才开始观鸟这一点。

And I love it how the sergeant doesn't exactly take up bird watching by choice.

他主要是被一群观鸟者包围着。

He mainly finds himself surrounded by twitches.

这还挺搞笑的。

So that was pretty funny.

据我回忆，故事开篇是几个青少年在丛林中寻找叫鸮。

And I from memory, it opens with teenagers in the bush trying to find a barking owl.

所以，这是一部带有观鸟元素的优秀犯罪小说。

So, yeah, it's a good crime novel with a twist of bird watching in it.

所以，安吉拉，我们继续进入下一个类型，我希望这个类型不像之前的那么黑暗。

So, Angela, we're moving on in our genres, and I'm hoping that this genre isn't as dark as the others.

接下来我想提到的类型是非虚构作品。

The next genre I wanted to mention was nonfiction.

我知道你之前在你的播客中讨论过或至少提到过其中一本书。

I know that you've discussed it or mentioned at least one of these books on your podcast before.

第一本是珍妮弗·阿克曼于2016年出版的《鸟类的天赋》。

The first one is The Genius of Birds by Jennifer Ackerman published in 2016.

我知道珍妮弗写过几本非常出色的书，关于鸟类的优秀非虚构作品也有很多，但这本书对我产生了最大的影响，彻底改变了我对鸟类的理解。

I know Jennifer's written a few terrific books, and there are a lot of great non fiction books about birds, but this is the one that made the biggest impact on me in terms of, like, a seismic shift in my understanding of birds.

你知道，她从这样一个前提开始：为什么我们会用‘鸟脑’来形容一个人不聪明？

You know, she sort of starts from that premise of like, why do we use the term bird brain to describe someone who's not smart?

因为实际上，当你观察鸟类大脑的工作方式时，你会发现这令人惊叹。

Because actually, when you look at the way birds' brains work, it's astonishing.

我在这本书中学到的东西让我大为震撼，原来我们长期以来对鸟类的理解完全错了。

I was really blown away by what I learned in this book, just how wrong we'd gotten birds for so long.

关于它们的歌声、语言，天啊，还有它们的地域性方言，以及大脑的工作方式、如何在迁徙中跨越遥远距离的见解。

The insights into their song, their language, you know, their regional dialects for heaven's sake, how their brains work, how they can navigate vast distances in terms of migration.

当然，还没说到鸦科鸟类，它们以使用工具和解决问题而闻名。

And then, of course, you know and this is before you even get into the Corvids who, you know, famously use tools and navigate problems.

这真的让我大开眼界，我非常喜欢这本书。

And, yeah, it was just mind blowing, and I really, really loved it.

而且这本书也非常易读，说实话，我平时不太读非虚构类作品，所以当我遇到一本风格如此引人入胜的书时，我特别开心。

And very, very readable too, which, you know, I'm not I don't actually read a lot of nonfiction, so I love it when I've come across a book that's really engaging in in its style as well.

我喜欢蒂姆·洛的《歌声的起源》。

I love Where Song Began by Tim Lowe.

它的副标题是《澳大利亚的鸟类及其如何改变世界》。

That subtitle Australia's birds and how they changed the world.

同样，我知道你曾在播客中提到过这本书，因为蒂姆彻底颠覆了那种殖民主义的假设——即所有事物都起源于欧洲，然后从世界中心向外扩散，而这本书完全颠倒了这种观念。

And, again, I have you heard you mention this one on the podcast because, you know, Tim really turned on its head that colonial assumption that all things started in Europe and then moved out from the center of the world, and this book just completely flips that on its head.

这听起来可能有点傻，但它几乎让你为澳大利亚的鸟类群体及其对世界的贡献感到自豪。

This sound might sound a bit silly, but it almost, gives you pride in in Australia's bird community and what they've what they've done for the world, I guess.

我记得你曾在博客上提到，你最近谈到过，或者可能是你的某位嘉宾提到过，有海外访客第一次看到彩虹吸蜜鹦鹉时，因为它的美丽和前所未见而感动得泪流满面。

I remember you saying on the blog, you were you were speaking recently about or it might be one of your guests who mentioned it about people coming from overseas and, like, bursting into tears the first time they saw a rainbow lorikeet because it's so beautiful and so unlike anything that they had seen before.

这让我提醒自己，要时刻珍惜那些瞬间，去欣赏我们后院和本国鸟类所具有的非凡特质，即使在全球背景下也是如此。

It reminds me to keep taking those moments to just appreciate the extraordinary nature of the birds that we have in our own backyard and in our country in that global context too.

是的。

So yes.

而且，这是一本文笔优美、易于阅读的书，可以随时翻阅，结构也很出色。

And, again, a beautifully written book, easy to read, one that you can dip in and out of, nicely structured.

是的。

Yeah.

那是肖恩·杜利分享的一个故事，讲的是他带国际客人去达尔文时，他们看到了彩虹吸蜜鹦鹉。

That was Sean Dooley who was sharing a story about when he took international guests to Darwin and they saw rainbow lorikeets.

这是一个非常温馨的故事。

It's a really sweet story.

也要大力感谢蒂姆·洛，他已经成为《周末观鸟》节目的常客。

And big shout out to Tim Lowe, who has become a bit of a regular on Weekend Burder.

我们第一次听到他是在第87期节目中，当时他谈到了自己的书《歌声的起源》，最近我们也再次听到了他的声音。

We first heard from him in episode 87 where he talked about his book, Where Song Began, and we also heard from him recently.

他在第124期节目中谈到了鹦鹉的进化。

He was on episode a 124 talking about parrot evolution.

好的。

Okay.

所以我们又要换一下题材了。

So we're switching genres again.

我想知道，安吉拉，你有没有什么青少年读物方面的推荐？

And I'm wondering, Angela, do you have anything in the young adult category?

我实际上还没能找到以鸟类为核心主题的青少年小说。

I haven't actually been able to identify any You novels that with birds at their heart.

所以我把这个话题抛给你的听众，基斯蒂，也许他们能给我们推荐一些书单。

So I'm throwing that out to your listeners, Kirsty, that they might be able to come back to us with some suggestions.

但与此同时，我会转向儿童读物，也就是更适合8到12岁读者的类别。

But in the meantime, I'm going to middle grade, which is kind of more the eight to 12 reading groups.

副标题是《阿尔玛·茶·贝斯特的两个荒诞故事》。

The subtitle is the two tall tales of Alma Tea Best.

所以她的主角阿尔玛是一个12岁、身高六英尺的女孩，显然是一名篮球运动员，但在本书开头她并不喜欢观鸟。

So her central character, Alma, is this 12 year old six foot tall girl who's obviously a basketball player as she would be, and she's not a fan of bird watching at the start of this book.

她勉强参加观鸟日徒步活动，却偶然发现了一只极为罕见的鹦鹉。

She's very grudgingly goes on bird day walks, but she happens to chance upon a a very rare sighting of a a rare parrot.

总之，故事便由此展开。

And, anyway, the story emerges from there.

关于这本书的背景是，凯瑟琳知道我是个狂热的鸟类爱好者，便联系我，邀请我陪同她前往韦里比污水处理厂，因为这本书的设定大致位于该区域，她想更多了解观鸟的相关知识。

Little bit of a backstory to this is that Catherine, knowing that I'm a big bird nerd, contacted me and asked me if I would accompany her to the Werribee treatment plant because the book is kind of loosely set in that area, and she was interested in knowing more about bird watching.

我们在那里度过了极其非凡的一天。

And we had the most extraordinary day there.

那真是一次非凡的经历。

It was phenomenal.

最令人难忘的是，我们去了瑞安沼泽，而沼泽里竟然有水，这相当罕见。

The highlight was that we went to Ryan's Swamp, and there was actually water in the swamp, which is quite rare.

大量候鸟栖息在水面上，这本身就已经非常令人兴奋了。

And a whole lot of the migratory shorebirds were roosting on the water, so that in itself was really exciting.

棕隼低空俯冲，阴影几乎笼罩在我们身上。

There were brown falcons swooping so low they were casting a shadow over us.

接着，一只沼泽鹞出现了，所有停在沼泽上的鸟儿突然惊起，形成一片壮观的群飞，两次从我们头顶低空掠过，我们甚至能听到它们翅膀拍打的声音，整个人都看得入迷了。

And then a swamp harrier turned up, and all the birds that were on the swamp shook off in this great murmuration and flew over our heads twice so low that we could hear their wings flapping, and we were just mesmerized.

最后，我不得不对凯瑟琳说：‘凯瑟琳，我觉得我们这次访问把标准定得有点太高了。’

And at the end of it, I had to say to her, Catherine, I think we've kind of raised the bar a bit high with this visit.

这种景象并不是每次去韦里比污水处理厂都能遇到的，但确实非常美丽。

Like, this doesn't happen on every visit to the Werribee Treatment Plant, but it really was quite beautiful.

坦白说，因为我们在韦里比度过的那一天，我在这本书的致谢部分得到了一个致意。

So full disclosure, I get a I get a nod in the acknowledgments of this book for that fantastic day that we spent together at Werribee.

而且你知道，她还用这些非常可爱的卡通插图来为书籍配图，整个作品既迷人又有趣，充满魅力。

And it's it's you know, she she also illustrates the the books with these very cute cartoons, and it's just it's just charming and engaging and funny.

另一个值得提及的青少年读物是，同样，这本书可能对你听众来说已经相当熟悉了，那就是M.写的《Twitch》。

The other middle grade worth mentioning, and, again, this one is one that might already be quite familiar to your listeners, Kirsty, is Twitch by M.

G.

G.

伦纳德。

Leonard.

这是一位英国作家的作品，主角特威奇是七年级学生。

So this is a UK writer and story, and the central character Twitch is in year seven.

正如他的名字所示，他是个观鸟爱好者。

As his name suggests, he's a fan of bird watching.

这在一定程度上使他很容易成为欺凌的目标。

That, to some extent, makes him pretty easy target for bullying.

他正在训练他的鸽子成为信鸽，但他原计划在夏天去树林里进行这项活动，却被一名危险罪犯越狱的消息打乱了，而且有人暗示这名罪犯可能藏身于同一片树林中。

He's training his pigeons to to be homing pigeons, but his plans for the summer to spend the summer in the woods doing that are thwarted by the escape of a dangerous criminal and suggestions that that criminal might be hiding out in the same woods.

总之，特威奇结成了几段意想不到的盟友，召集了一群孩子，试图把这名罪犯赶出来，以便他们能重新拥有树林，继续他们的暑期活动。

Anyway, Twitch ends up forging some unlikely alliances and gets this group of kids together to sort of see if they can flush out this criminal so they can have the woods back for their for their summer activity.

这本书中对鸟类的描写非常优美。

And there's some really beautiful descriptions of birds in this book.

我读到了丹尼·所罗门在Readings Kids上的一篇精彩书评，他说作者在第一章对普通岩鸽的描写让她感到难过。

I read this lovely review from Danny Solomon at Readings Kids who said that the author's description of a common rock pigeon in the first chapter made her feel sad.

她一生中从未意识到这些鸽子竟如此美丽。

She'd spent her whole life without realizing how beautiful they are.

我觉得这真是太美了。

So I just thought that was gorgeous.

而且，这又是一个非常棒的选择。

And, again, it's a really nice choice.

这个系列还有其他书籍，所以如果你为生活中的一位年轻人买了这本书，而他们喜欢的话，你还可以继续为他们提供后续的书籍。

And there are books in this series, so it's one of those books where if you buy it for a young person in your life and they like it, there'll be subsequent ones that you can provide for them.

我很高兴你提到了这本书，我最近把这本书送给了生活中一位年轻人，他们也特别喜欢。

I love that you've mentioned this book, and I recently gave it to a young person in my life, and they loved it too.

他们说，这是因为这本书让观鸟变得很酷。

And they said it's because they feel like it makes bird watching cool.

他们描述的方式，听起来就像是现代版的《五个孩子和一个怪物》冒险故事，适合那些从小读伊妮德·布莱顿作品长大的人。

The way they described it, it sort of sounds like a modern day famous five adventure for those people who have grown up with the Enid Blyton books.

而且，你知道吗，那个痴迷于鸟类的孩子，凭借他超强的观察力，智胜警察，抓住了一名银行劫匪。

And it's, you know, that kid who's obsessed with birds using his super strong observation skills to outsmart the police and catch a bank robber.

所以，没错，这是一本非常迷人的书，我很高兴你提到了它。

So, yeah, a delightful book, and I'm really glad you mentioned it.

安吉拉，我们下一个类型是什么？

Angela, what's our next genre?

我的最后一个类别是图画书。

My last category is picture books.

你知道，这些书通常是你们在当地图书馆故事时间里听到的类型。

And, you know, these are the sorts of books that you probably would hear at your local library during story time.

我想提到的第一本是莎拉·艾伦的《忙碌的鸟喙》。

The first one I wanted to mention was Busy Beaks by Sarah Allen.

莎拉的插图美得令人惊叹。

Sarah's illustrations are absolutely gorgeous.

事实上，她曾在墨尔本弗林德斯街的城市图书馆墙上绘制了壁画，作为墨尔本市政府图书馆项目的一部分。

In fact, she has painted murals on the wall at City Library in Flinders Lane in Melbourne as part of the City of Melbourne libraries.

值得稍微看一下。

It's worth having a little look.

它在底层那里。

It's in on the Ground Floor there.

但这是一本非常美丽的书。

But this is a really beautiful book.

它很好地介绍了澳大利亚本土常见物种，结构围绕一天的生活展开。

It's sort of a great introduction to native common, native Australian species, and it's structured around a day in the life.

我们从黎明时分出现的鸟类开始，以夜行性鸟类结束。

So we start with the birds that rise at dawn, and we finish up with the nocturnal birds.

我想那可能是深受喜爱的托蒂蛙嘴鸟。

I think it might be the beloved Torty Frogmouth even.

那是最后一种鸟。

That's the end bird.

而在其间，我们会看到一天中不同时间的鸟类。

And in between, we sort of see the birds throughout the day.

这本书真的很美，色彩鲜艳，充满活力且引人入胜。

It's really beautiful and really colorful, really vibrant and engaging.

我最近还发现了一本叫《后院鸟类》的书，作者是西澳的原住民创作者海伦·米尔罗伊。

And there's another one I came across recently called Backyard Birds by Helen Milroy, who's a First Nations creator based in WA.

这本书同样非常精美，插图大胆，主要聚焦于该地区更多的本土鸟类物种。

And this is really, again, a very beautiful, boldly illustrated book that that focuses on probably more species that are native to that area.

但没错，真的非常吸引人，也很美。

But, yeah, just really engaging, really beautiful.

在年轻人心中培养对鸟类的热爱永远不会太早，这些书一定能做到。

It's never too early to imbibe a love of birds in in in young people, and and those books will definitely do it.

实际上，有很多非常棒的关于澳大利亚鸟类的儿童读物。

There's actually a lot of really great kids' books about Australian birds.

我还能说出一大堆其他的书，但目前，我认为这两本是我最想推荐给听众的。

I could kind of rattle off a whole lot of others as well, but for the time being, I think those are the two that I really wanted to bring to the attention of your listeners.

两本绝佳的书籍。

Two fantastic books.

我也想向我的朋友布里吉特·法默致意，感谢她出色的儿童读物，同时也感谢最近来谈论这种鸟的阿斯特丽德·希克斯和霍莉·帕森斯。

I also wanna give a shout out to my friend Bridget Farmer for her amazing children's books and also to Astrid Hicks and Holly Parsons who recently came on to talk about this bird.

那真是太棒了。

That was great.

我觉得这是一个非常棒的项目。

I thought what a fantastic project.

真是绝配。

What a great pairing.

没错。

Yeah.

这真是一本好书。

Such a great book.

我还想向过去曾作为周末观鸟嘉宾的作者们致意，实际上名单还挺长的。

I'd also like to give a shout out to the authors who have been weekend birder guests in the past, and there's actually quite a list.

除了阿斯特丽德、霍莉和布里吉特·法默，还有佐治亚·安格斯，她的《100种澳大利亚鸟类》是我成为观鸟者后最早购买的鸟类书籍之一，它真的让我爱上了观鸟。

So besides Astrid and Holly and Bridget Farmer, there's also been Georgia Angus whose book A 100 Australian Birds was one of the first bird books that I picked up when I became a bird watcher, and it really got me into birds.

还有格罗贾·克莱里和她关于鸟类行为的精彩著作。

There's Gronja Cleary and her incredible books about bird behaviors.

还有里基·科夫林，里基最近出版了一本关于悉尼小型棕色鸟类的书。

Then there's Ricky Coughlin, and Ricky has recently published a book about the little brown birds of Sydney.

还有史蒂夫·迪布斯，他教会了我们很多关于猛禽的知识。

Then there's Steve Deebus, and Steve has taught us so much about birds of prey.

事实上，我刚刚读完他关于澳大利亚猎鹰的书。

In fact, I've just finished his book about Australian falcons.

还有安·戈特，她向我们介绍了灌木雀，并大力倡导那些在澳大利亚郊区可能被视为烦人鸟类的物种。

There's Anne Goth who told us all about brush checkies and is a huge advocate for what might be considered annoying birds in Australia's suburbs.

还有达里尔·琼斯。

Then there's Darryl Jones.

达里尔的《秃鹫街的鹬》是我读过的最喜爱的观鸟自传之一。

And Darryl's book, The Curlews of Vulture Street, was one of my favorite reads when it comes to a birdwatching autobiography.

强烈推荐达里尔的这本书。

Highly recommend Daryl's book.

还有杰森·罗杰斯，他为儿童写了很棒的书。

There's Jason Rogers who writes great books for children.

接着我们听到了琼·斯特拉斯曼的分享，她是一位美国作家，专注于观察、观鸟、自然笔记和正念，真正了解你身边生活的鸟类。

Then we heard from Joan Strassman who's an American writer who focuses on noticing and bird watching and nature journaling and mindfulness and really getting to know the birds that live around you.

我们怎么能忘记国宝级人物肖恩·杜利呢？他的书也同样精彩。

And then how could we forget national treasure, Sean Dooley, for his fantastic books as well.

另外，我想特别提一下你之前提到的《纸本书香》播客，这档节目完全围绕书籍展开，还巧妙地将书籍与香氛搭配，这是一个非常独特的概念，而且效果绝佳。

And then I just wanna give a shout out, you mentioned before, to Paperback Perfumes, such a great podcast all about books and also pairing books with fragrances, which is a really unique concept and just works so well.

所以，是的，上面列出了很多周末观鸟嘉宾。

So, yeah, a really extensive list of weekend birder guests there.

哦，我太喜欢了。

Oh, I love that.

你给我列了一大堆新书单。

And you've given me a whole list of new books.

而且，实际上，布里吉特，我有布里吉特的《我是喜鹊，我是'

And, actually, Bridget I've got Bridget's I'm a Magpie, I'm a

还有Carowong，我也很喜欢。

Carowong too, which I love.

我目前正在写一个短篇故事，灵感来源于乌鸦Carowong的现象，看看会怎么样。

I'm actually writing a short story at the moment that riffs off the magpie Carowong phenomenon, so we'll see how that goes.

我跟你说过，我最近的故事里都没有鸟了。

I told you all my short stories didn't have birds in them these days.

我并不

I don't

知道为什么。

know why.

当你能把自己的热情结合起来时，有多棒呢？

How good is it when you get to combine your passions?

安吉拉，我真的很喜欢你如此热情地谈论鸟类、观鸟、自然和书籍，你把这一切都融合在了一起。

Angela, I really love the way that you speak so highly of birds and birdwatching and nature and books, you bring all of that together.

这太鼓舞人心了。

It's so inspiring.

我能感觉到你对观鸟有着深厚的热情。

I can tell that you have such a big heart for birdwatching.

我想说的某些内容，其实多次出现在你的播客中，那就是当我观看鸟类时，内心涌动的敬畏与惊奇，以及在大自然中感受到的美，这种美在这个疯狂的世界里如此抚慰人心。

There are things in what I wanna say that have come up time and time again in your podcasts, that sense of awe and wonder that fill my heart when I watch birds, the beauty of being in nature and how sort of soothing that is in this kind of crazy world.

当你对环境中某种你深爱并深深吸引你的事物进行有意识的观察时，就会产生这种体验。

There's that purposeful observation that comes when you have something in the environment that really that you love and that really grabs your attention.

因此，这与只是漫步在大自然中不同，因为你带着一种警觉和专注在行走。

So it's it's different from just walking through nature because you're walking with this this vigilance, this this observation.

我非常珍视并热爱观鸟带来的这些方面。

And I really value and love those things about birding.

我也非常喜爱因观鸟而结识的那些人，他们是我生命中最棒的人之一，包括你，基尔斯蒂。

I also love the community and the people that I've got to meet as a result of birding who are just some of the best people in my life, including yours yourself, Kirsty.

观鸟者真的都是非常好的人。

They're just really birding people are really good people.

所以，出于这些原因，我热爱与鸟类为伴。

So, yes, for all those reasons, I love being among the birds.